If steel frames make a big comeback, it will be for one very important reason. Kinetic feedback plays an extremely important role in how an athlete performs as the brain takes that feedback (essentially from dynamically interacting with ground resistance, which we reluctantly learned to negotiate safely at a young age - our first conquest!), and converts it into a concerto of signals that 'harmonize co-ordination of several hundred separate micro sub muscular efforts and recalibrations of forces in the body, the success execution of which then floods back endorphins, essentially confirming success of effort throughout the body, just like the first time we took a step as an infant. Oh how I wish I had that moment in tablet form. This is kind of like the popular concept of what we know but can not scientifically prove yet as FLOW. Carbon fiber in an effort to be power in/out optimal unfortunately mutes some of that kinetic feedback. I have more flow days on my Marinoni than on my Tarmac. That's not to say I don't have flow days on the Tarmac. But considering the Marinoni was hand brazed by Guiseppe in 1974, and he is still breaking 1 Hour records in his 80s (age group) I think like good Marinara Sauce, he's onto something you shouldn't mess with. But wait, I have one more theory as to why steel frames, beautiful sexy steel frames like those by Pegoretti, Hampsten, Marinoni, (ok maybe Serotta) and Sachs and Ritchey and Moulton, magically produce smiles on rider's faces. Ok. Our hearts rely on something called the sinoatrial node to keep pumping. Essentially the sinoatrial node electrical impulse triggers the heart to pump once and then the process repeats (2.5 billion times in your lifetime). It's an electrical event. If that stops, your DNF. Somewhat analogously,, but ok possibly literally - heating steel tubes with a torch actually is an electrical event. When you braze together tubes, the heat causes electrons to jump from one atom to another more rapidly while maintaining a constant distance from the atom's nucleus in precise shells. The electrons and the atoms really just are experiencing their own little 'kinetic - like feedback loop', and my theory is that steel frame bikes, besides giving very good vibrational kinetic feedback - being a relatively good conductors of electricity also act as conduits between friction of static resonance caused by disappearing pavement beneath us (the void in space and time) and our own electrical force field (ergo George's hair : ) And while carbon fibre, and Aluminium are stiff enough, they just don't have those communicative and life sustaining electrical properties that create perfect 'human to ground "PURCHASE" (as George would say:)
It's also very sturdy frame for how dainty it looks! I am about 240lbs and was riding my Road Logic at about 15mph a week ago and was temporarily distracted fiddling with my computer, failing to notice one of those "Road Work Ahead" signs had its tripod conveniently rotated so it was sticking into the bike lane. My front wheel caught it and I proceeded to do a beautiful Superman culminating in a perfect belly flop where I kept my chin up just enough to touch the pavement with my beard but not the skin, while somehow holding the bike above myself and not getting a single scratch. But I thought for sure the Ritchey would take a beating and there would be some frame or fork damage from the initial wheel deceleration with the rider weight and energy involved. Inspected the frame thoroughly, nothing, and with steel, what you see is what you get. Dropped the carbon fork, inspected steerer, nothing. Looked for paint cracks in the crown, nothing. Carbon dropouts all fine. Did some bunny hops to see if anything would quick fail, no problem. Been riding it up hills as usual with no issues since then. These bikes are built to last a lifetime. I am a believer!
I've watched a few of your videos where you apologize for the noise from the motorbikes and I just wanted to let you know that It is really not so bad for those watching your videos. Thanks for all of the interesting bike profiles.
Love my Condor Acciaio Columbus spirit steel bike rides beautifully and it’s fast I’m no weight weenie but does come in at 7,8kg with ally wheels love it 😊😊👍🥇😍ritchey logic looks awesome to.. when it comes to weight best thing is to lose it off the rider, comfort if doing long distance is more important in my opinion.. Pete
Now I’m even more excited to get my Ritchey logic rim brake from George! You can spend 8k on a Trek or specialized and it will still be 19lbs and be loaded with proprietary annoyances. But! And this is a big but, one person on a bike is one less in a car, so I can’t hate lol (well maybe alittle)
Great video, kudos to George and his customer for getting it out there . I have been a fan of steel bikes for a long time, i own few and because of this channel i bought a 2022 Ritchey 50th. Blue. Ultegra 11S. Hunt aero wide wheels. 28mm Conti tires, Ritchey stem, seatpost, habdlebar. I wanted to like that bike so much but was a disappointment ,total weight was 8kg( not bad). I have tried different wheels, Campagnolo Shamal alloy C17. Tubeless with Pirelli PZero, made the bike a little more snappy but at the end i had to sell it, compare with my other 2 lSteel bikes was simply inferior performant, i enjoyed riding it but had to settle for under tempo easier rides and not fast rides. Now about the weight, Rirchey Road Logis frame weigts 1700g. And the carbon fork 380g. Safe to say you start with 2kg , the final weight had a lot more to do with the components and not the frameset.
I’m sadden that the Ritchey didn’t live up to your expectations 🥲 I ride mine in fast group rides with steep kickers, or steady climbs and lots of surges and sprints it is very responsive. Out of the saddle 6-7 w/kg efforts up 2-3 minute 6-7% hill on our group ride with no problem. My 55cm Road Logic is sub 7.7 kg (sub 17 lbs) Wheel choice makes a big difference in a bike’s responsiveness. I would have loved to buy that 50th from you. I have a new Road Logic coming in. I purchased it to get another 3-4 mm of tire clearance and update the color 😂
Thanks for speaking out against the hype these days, happening in any market it seems to me. I have not heard of underbiking, but with my self made minivelo road bike from 2019 I seem to have long adapted that concept in group rides 😛
When you know you know😂 More important than weight, Handling and comfort on long distance rides: Here Roadlogic is hard to beat. I did 90k this morning on my 1977 Peugeot Py60. Full 531. No issue to follow the group and was faster downhill. Yes it’s far to be a light bike at 11kg😂 Not a crit bike at all but you can ride fast a long time without fatigue. Why people think all’steel bikes are piggy noodles? Anyway let them think we are underbiked…
I can't wait to put the new Shimano 12speed Mechanical on my Road Logic. I cannot for any reason think why I would sell mine. I'm 54 years old and don't race, FTP of only about 300. Why do I need a plastic bike?
I'd love one but they are hard to find in the UK especially in rim brake. There are some great British steel frames around but the price can be prohibitive. I have alloy, carbon and Ti bikes, just need a steely to complete my collection.
I once had a steel Schwinn le tour with steel rims. It was slow to start but it would pick up speed and wouldn't slow down. I liked it. It was heavy, comfortable. the only thing I didn't like was the fact that it only had 5 gears in the back. That was not enough for me. I wasn't willing to pay to have the frame cold set and the frame realigned .
That sounds like a very old bike. At the time it felt great compared to other bikes of its day The Ritchey Road Logic is nothing like that. It is a contemporary steel frame. It is a bike that when you ride today’s advanced carbon frames and ride the Ritchey you realize steel is still relevant and carbon $10000- $14,000 bikes are completely overpriced and don’t offer anything better.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad yes it was if. It had some alloy rims and a 7 speed freewheel 13x 34 it would have been a muscle bike. Btw those center pull brakes were spot on. They would stop on a dime. The biggest drawback of that bike was rain. No stopping power.
Very good video. I have found that no matter what the bike is made of, wheels is what make thr difference. I have an okd CAAD Optimo 2019 with full DA 9070. I only use that bike on the trainer or when is raining and I do not want mg main bike to get dirty. Anyways, that bike with the cheap aluminum wheels it came with feels like a tank, does not move, feels heavy. The moment put my enve 4.5 on it, it just transform and now feels nimble, light and fast. Yet my average speed is the same lol. Is just the way the wheel handles it makes the bike feels different.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad BTW, I plugged the hole with Dynaplug. Let it sit overnight and no PSI lost. Did a short 10 miles ride today and it felt great and no air lose.
Funny thing I had a Scott CR1. It was the stiffest most uncomfortable bike I ever rode. I put up with it because it was super light. First chance I got to unload it I got ride of it. :-) epictrain.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/scarlet-nyes.jpg
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad This is a review I read on Pezcycling- The smoothness is simply the result of the Carbon butting process. Scott just went one better than most folks in what’s inside the tubes, and while they look pretty conservative on the outside, they are anything but on the inside… The Stiffness is not class leading, but the stiffness to weight ratio is better than anything that the EFBE.DE guys have tested (and they have tested far more than they show on the site). We have made the comment that stiffness to weight on other bikes has been impressive (and it has!), but this one is top of the light weight heap. It is less stiff than the BMC, but the ride is as plush as the Colnago C-50 and it weighs a good chunk less than either. That’s a pretty potent combination to go into battle with. Here was another good review autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/scott_cr1_team_issue
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Well it walked all over my other Carbon bikes. I don't know which year you had but I think mine was around 2003,2004. Also blew away times on other bikes I had, namely EVO, Domane, SL01 which were made much later. It strange that you have a Tommasini Techno, Ritchey Logic and a Serotta CDA as do I, Great bikes. I think comfort was effected by your handle bar choice there, lol.
I think you mean understated. Underbiking would be pushing a Road Logic on gnarly gravel rides instead of an Outback. A Road Logic on the road is exactly where it should be.
I have a British Thorn Audax MK3R with rim brakes and steel forks. It ´s equally comfortable to my Cannondale Synapse. 28mm Pirelli Cinturato Velo on both of them. Both have high profile carbon wheels … for looks… The Thorn have fenders. For the average person steel is more durable. You don´t crack the frame easily.
Never thought of underbiking quite that way. More about the bike not being as appropriate for the type of ride, not that it's not of the same caliber bike as others in a group ride
Hello yes under-biking can be showing up on a road bike while everyone is on a gravel bike AND my twist is when everyone is on carbon bikes, Di2 and disc brakes and I keep up or drop them on my steel bike with rim brakes 😊 😊 Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Got some neck issues unfortunately, I'm a hard fit to begin with, long legs and short torso/arms plus the neck kinda adds an additional wrench. Been riding bikes with ~55/56 virtual top tube and 175/180 HT and making them fit with spacers. An OG Serotta Fierte 58 actually is a pretty good fit, but it's getting long in the tooth and 25's are as far as I can go with tire width.
@@shrkys4 I see! Sorry to hear about your neck issues. Ritchey does not have a custom geometry option but I sell other steel frames that do. Alternatively, you might look at not only a custom steel bike but also a steel fork with a steel steerer tube. Then you are not pinned down to only 3cm of stack height.
Talking about the carbon generation, here is what a steel/Ti frame builder wrote me when I asked why they only use steel/Ti: "Hello Mr. Rodriguez! Thank you for your message. Here you can find the response of your last question. I' M sorry for the late reply! BIXXIS use steel and titanium for their high mechanical properties. high mechanical properties allow to build durable products, fatigue life of these material is very long. Not only durability Is the issue, but also the confort is higher. New generation people do not realize the advantages of steel and titanium frame." Best Regards Martina
If steel frames make a big comeback, it will be for one very important reason. Kinetic feedback plays an extremely important role in how an athlete performs as the brain takes that feedback (essentially from dynamically interacting with ground resistance, which we reluctantly learned to negotiate safely at a young age - our first conquest!), and converts it into a concerto of signals that 'harmonize co-ordination of several hundred separate micro sub muscular efforts and recalibrations of forces in the body, the success execution of which then floods back endorphins, essentially confirming success of effort throughout the body, just like the first time we took a step as an infant. Oh how I wish I had that moment in tablet form. This is kind of like the popular concept of what we know but can not scientifically prove yet as FLOW. Carbon fiber in an effort to be power in/out optimal unfortunately mutes some of that kinetic feedback. I have more flow days on my Marinoni than on my Tarmac. That's not to say I don't have flow days on the Tarmac. But considering the Marinoni was hand brazed by Guiseppe in 1974, and he is still breaking 1 Hour records in his 80s (age group) I think like good Marinara Sauce, he's onto something you shouldn't mess with.
But wait, I have one more theory as to why steel frames, beautiful sexy steel frames like those by Pegoretti, Hampsten, Marinoni, (ok maybe Serotta) and Sachs and Ritchey and Moulton, magically produce smiles on rider's faces. Ok. Our hearts rely on something called the sinoatrial node to keep pumping. Essentially the sinoatrial node electrical impulse triggers the heart to pump once and then the process repeats (2.5 billion times in your lifetime). It's an electrical event. If that stops, your DNF. Somewhat analogously,, but ok possibly literally - heating steel tubes with a torch actually is an electrical event. When you braze together tubes, the heat causes electrons to jump from one atom to another more rapidly while maintaining a constant distance from the atom's nucleus in precise shells. The electrons and the atoms really just are experiencing their own little 'kinetic - like feedback loop', and my theory is that steel frame bikes, besides giving very good vibrational kinetic feedback - being a relatively good conductors of electricity also act as conduits between friction of static resonance caused by disappearing pavement beneath us (the void in space and time) and our own electrical force field (ergo George's hair : ) And while carbon fibre, and Aluminium are stiff enough, they just don't have those communicative and life sustaining electrical properties that create perfect 'human to ground "PURCHASE" (as George would say:)
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth!
Wow! There's a serious hypothesis that needs testing! Can't even imagine how you would begin! :-)
@@shannonparker7404 Ya, a bit of a stretch. it needs work
Thank you for your analysis 🧐
It's also very sturdy frame for how dainty it looks! I am about 240lbs and was riding my Road Logic at about 15mph a week ago and was temporarily distracted fiddling with my computer, failing to notice one of those "Road Work Ahead" signs had its tripod conveniently rotated so it was sticking into the bike lane.
My front wheel caught it and I proceeded to do a beautiful Superman culminating in a perfect belly flop where I kept my chin up just enough to touch the pavement with my beard but not the skin, while somehow holding the bike above myself and not getting a single scratch. But I thought for sure the Ritchey would take a beating and there would be some frame or fork damage from the initial wheel deceleration with the rider weight and energy involved. Inspected the frame thoroughly, nothing, and with steel, what you see is what you get. Dropped the carbon fork, inspected steerer, nothing. Looked for paint cracks in the crown, nothing. Carbon dropouts all fine. Did some bunny hops to see if anything would quick fail, no problem. Been riding it up hills as usual with no issues since then. These bikes are built to last a lifetime. I am a believer!
glad you are ok, and the bike too.
I've watched a few of your videos where you apologize for the noise from the motorbikes and I just wanted to let you know that It is really not so bad for those watching your videos. Thanks for all of the interesting bike profiles.
Thanks for the info! It sounds SO LOUD when I’m filming! 😂 I appreciate the feedback.
Love my Condor Acciaio Columbus spirit steel bike rides beautifully and it’s fast I’m no weight weenie but does come in at 7,8kg with ally wheels love it 😊😊👍🥇😍ritchey logic looks awesome to.. when it comes to weight best thing is to lose it off the rider, comfort if doing long distance is more important in my opinion.. Pete
Now I’m even more excited to get my Ritchey logic rim brake from George!
You can spend 8k on a Trek or specialized and it will still be 19lbs and be loaded with proprietary annoyances. But! And this is a big but, one person on a bike is one less in a car, so I can’t hate lol (well maybe alittle)
#OneLessCar
Thats it! Im sold! I want one!!! 😍
Matching Bikes? Niice! I can’t wait to build you two matching Ritchey bikes! 🏍️ 🚴
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad 😁🙌
Great video, kudos to George and his customer for getting it out there . I have been a fan of steel bikes for a long time, i own few and because of this channel i bought a 2022 Ritchey 50th. Blue. Ultegra 11S. Hunt aero wide wheels. 28mm Conti tires, Ritchey stem, seatpost, habdlebar. I wanted to like that bike so much but was a disappointment ,total weight was 8kg( not bad). I have tried different wheels, Campagnolo Shamal alloy C17. Tubeless with Pirelli PZero, made the bike a little more snappy but at the end i had to sell it, compare with my other 2 lSteel bikes was simply inferior performant, i enjoyed riding it but had to settle for under tempo easier rides and not fast rides. Now about the weight, Rirchey Road Logis frame weigts 1700g. And the carbon fork 380g. Safe to say you start with 2kg , the final weight had a lot more to do with the components and not the frameset.
I'd LOVE to get my Logic to 8kg! That's light! I have 11speed 105 and 50mm Decadence Carbon wheels and hit the scales at 9kg...
I’m sadden that the Ritchey didn’t live up to your expectations 🥲 I ride mine in fast group rides with steep kickers, or steady climbs and lots of surges and sprints it is very responsive. Out of the saddle 6-7 w/kg efforts up 2-3 minute 6-7% hill on our group ride with no problem. My 55cm Road Logic is sub 7.7 kg (sub 17 lbs)
Wheel choice makes a big difference in a bike’s responsiveness. I would have loved to buy that 50th from you. I have a new Road Logic coming in. I purchased it to get another 3-4 mm of tire clearance and update the color 😂
Thanks for speaking out against the hype these days, happening in any market it seems to me.
I have not heard of underbiking, but with my self made minivelo road bike from 2019 I seem to have long adapted that concept in group rides 😛
You’re Welcome ans thanks for watching!
When you know you know😂 More important than weight, Handling and comfort on long distance rides: Here Roadlogic is hard to beat. I did 90k this morning on my 1977 Peugeot Py60. Full 531. No issue to follow the group and was faster downhill. Yes it’s far to be a light bike at 11kg😂 Not a crit bike at all but you can ride fast a long time without fatigue. Why people think all’steel bikes are piggy noodles? Anyway let them think we are underbiked…
I have a 2016 Road Logic in grey like yours. It's wonderful. Mine is built with Record 11 and Reynolds wheels.
Nice build! Thank you for watching
I can't wait to put the new Shimano 12speed Mechanical on my Road Logic. I cannot for any reason think why I would sell mine. I'm 54 years old and don't race, FTP of only about 300. Why do I need a plastic bike?
@@e.con5712 No, I find it very comfortable, no stretch at all and the stem is not angled up. Cannot recommend it enough.
I'd love one but they are hard to find in the UK especially in rim brake. There are some great British steel frames around but the price can be prohibitive. I have alloy, carbon and Ti bikes, just need a steely to complete my collection.
I ship Ritcheys world wide
I once had a steel Schwinn le tour with steel rims. It was slow to start but it would pick up speed and wouldn't slow down. I liked it. It was heavy, comfortable. the only thing I didn't like was the fact that it only had 5 gears in the back. That was not enough for me. I wasn't willing to pay to have the frame cold set and the frame realigned .
That sounds like a very old bike. At the time it felt great compared to other bikes of its day The Ritchey Road Logic is nothing like that. It is a contemporary steel frame. It is a bike that when you ride today’s advanced carbon frames and ride the Ritchey you realize steel is still relevant and carbon $10000- $14,000 bikes are completely overpriced and don’t offer anything better.
Thank You for watching please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad yes it was if. It had some alloy rims and a 7 speed freewheel 13x 34 it would have been a muscle bike. Btw those center pull brakes were spot on. They would stop on a dime. The biggest drawback of that bike was rain. No stopping power.
@@tmayberry7559 thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Love mine. I ride it loads more than my Roubaix.
I hear that a lot from people with carbon frames! They still choose the Ritchey Road Logic.
Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing.
Very good video. I have found that no matter what the bike is made of, wheels is what make thr difference. I have an okd CAAD Optimo 2019 with full DA 9070. I only use that bike on the trainer or when is raining and I do not want mg main bike to get dirty.
Anyways, that bike with the cheap aluminum wheels it came with feels like a tank, does not move, feels heavy. The moment put my enve 4.5 on it, it just transform and now feels nimble, light and fast. Yet my average speed is the same lol. Is just the way the wheel handles it makes the bike feels different.
Wheels AND tires make the biggest difference to the ride. Thanks for watching!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad BTW, I plugged the hole with Dynaplug. Let it sit overnight and no PSI lost. Did a short 10 miles ride today and it felt great and no air lose.
@@thedronescene7474 wonderful news! I think Dynaplug really has a good thing going!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad yes!
Closest carbon bike I ride that is similar in feel to steel is a Scott CR 1 limited edition with Mavic limited alloy rims. 2004 approx.
Funny thing I had a Scott CR1. It was the stiffest most uncomfortable bike I ever rode. I put up with it because it was super light. First chance I got to unload it I got ride of it. :-) epictrain.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/scarlet-nyes.jpg
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad This is a review I read on Pezcycling- The smoothness is simply the result of the Carbon butting process. Scott just went one better than most folks in what’s inside the tubes, and while they look pretty conservative on the outside, they are anything but on the inside…
The Stiffness is not class leading, but the stiffness to weight ratio is better than anything that the EFBE.DE guys have tested (and they have tested far more than they show on the site). We have made the comment that stiffness to weight on other bikes has been impressive (and it has!), but this one is top of the light weight heap. It is less stiff than the BMC, but the ride is as plush as the Colnago C-50 and it weighs a good chunk less than either. That’s a pretty potent combination to go into battle with. Here was another good review autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/scott_cr1_team_issue
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Well it walked all over my other Carbon bikes. I don't know which year you had but I think mine was around 2003,2004. Also blew away times on other bikes I had, namely EVO, Domane, SL01 which were made much later. It strange that you have a Tommasini Techno, Ritchey Logic and a Serotta CDA as do I, Great bikes. I think comfort was effected by your handle bar choice there, lol.
I think you mean understated. Underbiking would be pushing a Road Logic on gnarly gravel rides instead of an Outback. A Road Logic on the road is exactly where it should be.
That is another example of underbiking. There have been many times I’ve shown up to a gravel ride on my Road Logic
I have a British Thorn Audax MK3R with rim brakes and steel forks. It ´s equally comfortable to my Cannondale Synapse. 28mm Pirelli Cinturato Velo on both of them. Both have high profile carbon wheels … for looks… The Thorn have fenders. For the average person steel is more durable. You don´t crack the frame easily.
Most of us are the average rider. Yes a steel bike is more durable. Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Never thought of underbiking quite that way. More about the bike not being as appropriate for the type of ride, not that it's not of the same caliber bike as others in a group ride
Hello yes under-biking can be showing up on a road bike while everyone is on a gravel bike AND my twist is when everyone is on carbon bikes, Di2 and disc brakes and I keep up or drop them on my steel bike with rim brakes 😊 😊
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
What Ritchey Road Logic frameset size would you recommend for someone who is 174cm tall with short legs and long torso?
I don’t know enough about you to give you bike sizing information
Does Ritchey offer a custom build? I'd love a Road Logic but the head tube is too short, I need a 170/180 on a 53cm
No they do not. Geez that’s really tall for a 53! Why do you need such a tall head tube?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Got some neck issues unfortunately, I'm a hard fit to begin with, long legs and short torso/arms plus the neck kinda adds an additional wrench. Been riding bikes with ~55/56 virtual top tube and 175/180 HT and making them fit with spacers. An OG Serotta Fierte 58 actually is a pretty good fit, but it's getting long in the tooth and 25's are as far as I can go with tire width.
@@shrkys4 I see! Sorry to hear about your neck issues. Ritchey does not have a custom geometry option but I sell other steel frames that do. Alternatively, you might look at not only a custom steel bike but also a steel fork with a steel steerer tube. Then you are not pinned down to only 3cm of stack height.
Talking about the carbon generation, here is what a steel/Ti frame builder wrote me when I asked why they only use steel/Ti:
"Hello Mr. Rodriguez! Thank you for your message.
Here you can find the response of your last question. I' M sorry for the late reply!
BIXXIS use steel and titanium for their high mechanical properties.
high mechanical properties allow to build durable products, fatigue life of these material is very long.
Not only durability Is the issue, but also the confort is higher.
New generation people do not realize the advantages of steel and titanium frame."
Best Regards
Martina
There is much more you can do with metals that you can’t do with carbon. Carbon is not really wonder material when you really come down to it.
more of the bike less the human
huh?