Nikon Zf. First look. Classic Full Frame
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Hey everyone
In this video we will take a first look at the new Nikon Zf
Nikon have released a new full frame retro styled camera and it has some great new functions in it ! so lets take a look.
00:00 Introduction
01:36 Main specification
02:23 Autofocus
03:57 4k 10 Bit N-log
04:20 Body Design
08:20 Tough Fn
10:37 Memory cards
12:00 In Body Stabilisation
13:26 Pixel shift shooting
14:29 Brass Dials
19:03 Sample images
20:34 final thoughts
if you are interested in my photography: nikonricci?igsh...
Thank you so much for watching
Good Bye
#nikon #nikonz #nikonzf - Věda a technologie
Hey Everybody!
Iv had such a good time shooting the Zf and there’s lots of other stuff to show you about this camera soon.
What do you think about the Zf
Let me know
Thanks again ❤
I really like the subject detection options. And the touch screen for the AF POINTS...freaking wooow. Oh yeah, finally, the flip screen is SUPER nice! It's definitely an incredible camera, especially for what's packed in it for what it's worth too.
I love the orange color one
Lovely review! Do you anticipate using the Smallrig grip for the Zf,?
Thank you
I'll admit the more I think about it the more intrigued I am by the Z f. I am a sucker for retro design in any case, and part of what I am using the U1-3 modes on the Z 6 for is almost superfluous considering the physical dials for almost, well, everything. But as I switch around a lot between different styles of photography, could you perhaps confirm one thing for me: the "C" setting on the ISO dial means I can then set ISO and especially enable/disable ISO-A by command dial? That would be great, as this is one of the few things Nikon didn't get right with the Z fc in my book.
Another ideal use case for this Zf - the classroom. It’s a perfect camera to learn the basics of photography - tactile dials, and puts the user in a more thoughtful mindset I believe. The advanced options are there when the photographer is ready. Additionally, teaching composition skills in black & white mode is a big advantage and could be very useful.
Unfortunately I'd disagree. I think the Zfc and Zf are *bad* tools for learning the basics because of the PSAM dial. Unlike Fujifilm X-series cameras, the Zfc and Zf have a PSAM dial that can contradict the settings of any given other dial. It'll be confusing even for people who know their non-retro cameras inside and out. I think Nikon does it because they expect most users to be "converts" from regular cameras (with front and back dials and PSAM and maybe auto ISO) but I think it's more likely to confuse than to reassure.
WTF? Normal students use cameras like 1200D or 90D, not a 2700€ camera.
@@efevisuals_ The local college has set two parameters for their photography students on the first year of their course, the camera must be able to use film and must have a manual mode. The college has a fully equipped darkroom and students will be able to D&P their films then print them via an enlarger. Working digitally comes towards the end of year one and most of year two. The logic behind the first year is to get students to slow down and think about their composition, lighting etc etc. Seems to work as the course is full with kids on a waiting list in case anyone drops out.
@@gyozakeynsianism Perhaps the instructor can krazy glue the mode switch then. Or, simply set settings constraints for each assignment, and trust that students will abide by them. It's not that difficult.
This is the most in-depth review I've seen today. Thank you!
Great review! As usual your reviews are always the first on my list. Thank you!
Great review with lots of useful info! As a Nikon shooter since 1980 (starting with an F2AS and then an FM), I can tell this is going to be a huge success. Currently use a Z9 & Z5 Walkaround combo and a pair of pristine F2AS film cameras so I have all the “retro” I really need for now but when it comes time to upgrade the Z5, this Zf will definitely be on the list. Really chuffed about the brass dials- they look amazing!
As far as I'm concerned the F2AS was legend. I owned one with all the lenses including a fantastic 55mm macro, but lost it under dubious circumstances. I miss it every single day, 40 years later.
Stunning image quality! Full frame glory at its best!
Ricci, the way you present all this stuff is awesome. I love it. That openness and honesty combined with the thoroughness and obviously the type of gear access you have is nowhere else to be found.
His videos are excellent, but he knows more of forthcoming products and keeps things quieter than Area 51.
We need clues on what "Plena" means!!! Is it the 35mm or 135mm??? Anything Ricci, a hint, a morsel, a crumb... we can't take the pressure and uncertainty much longer 😳😳😳
Who knows 😂😂
Fantastic review, yeah I’m surprised too by this release, didn’t think they would do it. This camera will bring me back to Nikon again.
Love the brass dials, thank you so much for doing this 👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏👌👌👌
Other reviewers got Zf for an hour with chaperone. Rici got it for longer, no chaperone and he was able to sand off paint from dials. Priceless. :)
I'm really considering it. My Z6 has been a workhorse for the past 4 years and the Zf looks like one that would be much more "casual" for the work I do. Loving the the specs of Zf, now that the real specs are out. Great video overview Ricci! Anxious to see your review on a real Zf production model!
I have my order in
Iv been really impressed with it it’s picture quality does just feel different.
Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to purchasing this camera! 🎉
Finally we have what we have been waiting for, Ricci thank you very much for the good news and this video, I will be waiting for a detailed video from you about setting up Nikon Zf.
An excellent summary of this new camera, thanks!
I'm an OG Z6 owner, and this looks like something I'd get for myself this Christmas. Enough new features to warrant an upgrade, good value for the specs and yes, the aesthetics of my camera is important to me. If I am able to sell my Z6 then I would be able to have this for not a lot of money.
Great video, thanks! You are so right about the brass looking fab 👏👏
Like your sanding. Nice introduction to this new camera. Thank you.
Great film, thanks Ricci and yes we really didn't see this coming! Loving the "Worn" look dials that you've created!
Glad you liked it!
I wish I didn't already have two perfectly good Z bodies, then I'd have a reason to get this one.
Beautiful!
That cable shutter release - I never thought I'd see one of those on a modern camera!
Majority of the fujifilms have the cable release.
@@kevrosas1 and how many aren't APS-C? How many have IBIS? How many shoot 4k 60? How many have focus point based IBIS? How many have machine learning focusing?
Wtf does that have to do with what he said? His statement was accurate. Modern Fuji cameras have them. @@toddysurcharge771
I'm definitely replacing my Z6II with probably 2 of these. I don't need the extra MP from Z8, and not bothered by the micro SD as it'll just be a backup and probably never even leave the camera. Throw a grip on there and it's just as comfortable to use for longer periods of time.
That's my thinking. The only downgrade is the back ae-l button. But like...whatever. give your thumb a workout
Nice to see that soon your smiling face I knew it !congratulations Nikon !
Thank you so much for this amazing video 👌👌👌, I am in love with new Nikon Zf 💞
A great talk about this camera right out of the gate. Groovin' on it too.. 😀
Thanks for watching 😊
Excellent program. Very informative.
that brass is so amazing. love it
Another incredibly informative video - and the brass looks so good!!! I love it.
Brass Dial 👍
I love them !
The dials look incredible
In addition to different color edition, hope Nikon would give us different dial painting option~~ It looks great on ZF.
love the review, I am sure that I am going to use the sand paper as soon as I get mine!!
The videos from Ricci are always my first source of information to decide on which lens or camera to buy... thanks for the very factual and thorough reviews! Hopefully we will continue to see videos on the latest Nikon releases. I would have very much liked a comparison between the Z 70-180 2.8 and the Z 70-200 2.8 ...
Thanks for the review Ricci
Thanks for watching !
I’m so sold , hopefully they will be available soon! Great job on making a Leica killer ❤
awsome presentation, thank you
Grew up with analog dials, Contax system, mastered it. Then Canon 5D2, Sony 7iii, excellent. but missed the wholesome appearance, control and feel.
This Nikon blew me away and almost had an instant love affair with it. I hope it has an optional hand grip to mount out front because that is so good, safe, handling is better. But WOW, WELL DONE.
Hey, you got the idea of sandpaper from the Aussie cricketers.They sanded to ball for an old effect!...lol...LOOKS GREAT, I think Nikon made an error to not have silver along with black...but they may be a "special" model that brings $$$...I'll follow the sandpaper path!
15:25 👏👏👏this is why I watch your video .This is what review should be all about. Giving the viewers an idea of what the product is .... as predicted. 😃
Brilliant review Ricci. A very interesting release from Nikon. Proof they are a fantastic camera brand. Now they can get to work on the mark iii 6 & 7 and a few more primes 😂
Thanks for an amazing review Ricci, love it! No IBS lock... I can live without that. The Brass rubbing- It makes it look like a proper, well used and much loved camera. I've used Nikon for over 40 years now and would admire Nikon even more if they pick up on that and maybe just start with the rims of the knobs unpainted. That face-on view at 15:24... ok not for everyone... Me? I love it. Good move with the cards and the EN-EL15c battery, again not for everyone but, life would get very boring if we were all the same. As for the 24mp's, I still have and use a D5100 which is 16mp and lives in the car. My first one died after about 10 years and was un-economical to repair, I liked that camera so much I bought a refurb one for less than the cost of a repair. If I see something and jump out of the car camera in hand, I'm not counting pixels I'm grabbing a lucky shot. And if some thieving sod snatches it out of the car it's no big loss. I'm looking forward to any updated reviews when you get the time to produce something.
What a treat of a camera. Cant wait to add it to my (every agnostic) kit as a fun EDC kind of like a Leica Q3 but with the 40mm prime. Great video as always
Me, being a non-pro shooter who has honestly become increasingly casual over shooting in the last few years since COVID, will likely use this as the camera for everything moving forward. I love the retro aesthetics, 24 MP is plenty for me, and I have the backup slot I desire for the rare times I do paid work anymore. Improved IBIS, improved AF over the Z6/7 II, and enhanced low light AF ability are all things that are a benefit.
The Zfc also pleased me, I just wish it had IBIS.
I could really like this camera with all its dials instead of menu or button to push. Love the brass parts and how that will age, this camera reminds me of my film cameras from Nikon. Thanks for the great review.
Good overview Ricci. Now that the Zf has finally been released it is what everyone was expecting with a couple of surprises. You can order it with various leather skin colors including Moss Green (the top and bottom sections are still black)....thankfully Minty Green is not an option as with the Zfc. Now many Nikon fans are awaiting the Z6iii but that could be months away.
Amazing design!!!😌😍😍😍👌
Cool! I had the Zfc and didn't care for the sensor size. Looking forward to learning more about this new camera.
Great video Ricci.
Another great video Ricci.
Excellent 👍👍👍
Man, it IS really pretty. The more I see it, the better it looks. I love it.
About the sensor not being locked in place when the camera is turned off: Pentax is known for producing some pretty rugged cameras, which also have IBIS, and they don't lock it in place either. I used to have Pentax DSLRs and if I shook the camera quickly from side to side, I could hear the sensor assembly moving around. But it was never a problem, and I don't know of anyone who had a problem with a Pentax DSLR because of this.
20:10 Been there last Sunday. :)
Nikon has done a fantastic job here! thank you
excellent review ! thx a lot
Thank you Nikon, just the camera I was waiting for, Thank You. Perfect camera for me
"It's about to get busy again" 😄 Thanks, I have too many cameras, but indeed I like my Z fc, so this video was useful.
Excellence in review!
Amazing brass dials.
Just seen you on Nigel Dansons video, just subscribed, this could be the camera to tempt me back to Nikon. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks a lot ! Great to have you here too
Hello Ricci, This is to me looks a very interesting camera. I think there are a lot of DSLR/film photographers who will love all the manual controls on this camera. As some one who only this year upgraded my last DSLR to the Z system I know there is a learning curve, that no one talks about ie all of the focusing modes and the I menu. Yes the Z system is lovely, but I find so many Nikon shooter come up to my and say they are sticking with the D850/D5 I just say these are both amazing cameras and as they are happy why change. This new Nikon Zf does not look as intimidating as some of the other Z cameras but offers all of the features and more under the hood. I think this camera will do very well for Nikon. Keep well, keep safe and alway find time for a smile. :)
A very tempting Walk-about camera - Will certainly consider maybe early next year or 12 moths down the road. Till then will have to endure the weight of my Z9 :) Great video Ricci
Great review 👌🏾
Great video, Ricci! Just wondering if you can use the Dpad for changing the focus point? Not sure if I can adjust to just a touch screen for this purpose. Also, what is the 1/3 stop setting on the shutter speed dial? Thanks so much!
Thanks for this video! Really appreciate the effort you put into this! 🙏
Could you tell us something about the AF speed? We know AF profited from Expeed 7 in terms of subject detection and AF options, but has it also boosted speed? To which extend? Only statement I found was Jared Polin claiming that this is considerably faster focussing than Z 6II, but not as fast as Z 8.
I think those brass dials are a genius marketing move. Those dials will sell lots of these cameras I hope.
As a hapyy zFc owner (hobbyist who mostly takes pictures for fun and sometimes for my work) it seems like the Zf has all the upgrades that I put on my wishlist when I first used the zFc : built-in slight grip with option for bigger grip , more metallic chassis , double memory card , faster shutter speed (though 1/16 000 electronic shutter would’ve been nice) , full frame , IBIS etc.
It has all of them EXCEPT 30+ megapixels , which is a shame because that was my main gripe . I like being able to crop my shots (especially the few I take for work) and to simply have that lattitude when editing or when taking low light pictures .
So now I’m torn . All the upgrades it has are great but are quality-of-life and build-quality and it’s hard to justify a 2000$ purchase when the image quality is going to remain essentially identical .
EDIT: actuvely trying not to get instantly won over by the brass dials and currently failing .
Nice video. I always use the AEL-lock! Never Af on!
Personally, if i'm doing portraiture or otherwise using LED or strobe lighting, I almost prefer the mechanical shutter whenever possible . While I haven't necessarily run into any issues with the Z8 and it's electronic-only "shutter" I have heard stories about people getting banding in some cases in shadow areas when shooting in certain conditions with electronic shutters versus mechanical. I do have to say the 8-stops of IBIS is impressive, especailly considering this exceeds the rating of the Z8 (which is 6-stops). Hopefully the addition of 3D AF improves AF though and tracking.
I wonder if the increased flexibility in the customization of the AF-C areas will come to the Z8 and Z9 through firmware (maybe v2.0 for the Z8 and v4.x for the Z9).
At least they gave the Zf dual card slots, and in some respects, I'd glad they went with SD + micro SD because both of those cards be found quite cheap these days. CFE's are still a bit on the expensive side (per GB) but they are coming down in price, but it's nice that we do get dual card slots on the Zf, despite on being micro SD, but at 24MP, I doubt your RAW images are going to be huge and even a 512GB card will give you a lot of storage.
I too have steered towards the higher MP cameras myself, although I do have a Z5 that got converted to an IR camera (got it when the Z5 went to $999 and I wasn't ready to invest $3000 into a camera I may not keep long term, so the Z5 at $999 was perfect for this task). I've had the Z6 and Z6 II but ultimately sold them to get the Z8 and really most of my photography is with my Z7 II or Z8 as I do prefer the high res sensors (doing mostly landscape, some portraiture, and travel photography, all of which I think can benefit from higher MP sensors for detail, and in the case of travel ,some cropping to crop things out that you can't "crop out" in camera so I can still end up with a decent sized image I could still print large with the Z7 II and Z8 even after some cropping).
I like your video! Very informative but also not pretentious. I wish success for you and your channel.
It looks so good. I walk around with my FM2 or Leica M3 every day so this is right up my alley. I'd love to use this with some AI-s or M mount lenses
Great to see the big names catching up to Fuji.
Why did I watch this, lol. The Z f is on my list but this makes me want to get it sooner than later. I love the Z fc for street and snapshots but the dials are a bit underwhelming, brass dials are a welcome addition. I keep my Z fc in B&W mode just to differentiate it from my other cameras and to entice me to use it more, having the flexibility to change that with a dial is even more tempting. Always appreciate your videos and thanks for keeping the community informed and for being the voice Nikon needs to supplement their marketing.
i absolutely love it
Thank you for the great info and first look as always! Do you think Nikon will implement a monochrome raw output like the Pixii rangefinder camera via software that can be linked to the B/W switch on the camera? That would be an incredible feature without having a dedicated monochrome sensor.
Been longing for 10-bit/N-Log for so long in my Z6ii along with a fully articulating screen & AF improvements, so this is a very welcome addition to the lineup! The retro styling looks really cool, but I do wonder if I would still feel the same after a four hour shooting session & my hand cramping up on that tiny grip 😑 I appreciate you mentioning the weathering on the dials too. That's a really nice touch that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, including Nikons own marketing and is a really groovy little feature that I could see myself really loving over time & feeling that satisfaction every time I look at it
10-bit/N log in Zf body is reassuring that next Nikon full frame mid level camera might have this feature. Love the retro design aesthetics of Zf but for practical day to day use will wait for Z6/Z6ii type body. Hope they launch something like Z6iii soon.
@@prashantpatil8396 it's sad that for so many years Nikon users had the choice of 12-bit raw in the super expensive flagship or 8-bit in everything else. Very glad to be seeing 10-bit reaching the mid level bodies, N-Log is really underrated
This is the first camera video I have seen in 3 months, for some reason they do not show up, but it does not matter, where I live none of the cameras are available. Not lusting after new models actually has been nice, since I shoot a lot every day and 80% of my income comes from portrait, studio, events and more and more video. The street photography both for fun and for clients has been fun. Still shoot 90% with a Z6 and the remainder D850 or D800 and the results from all of them are very pleasing.
I have not felt it was essential to move to a higher pixel count sensor, I think I would like a Z8 or Z73 and then sell the DSLRs. I have never sold a camera, they are too much a part of me, nor would I see my dog for the same reason. I have given some away to beginners who showed enough interest in developing their skills by using simpler gear.
The Z6 despite it not being cool anymore to most, is still all I need, or anyone actually needs. I do not see improvement from friends who are always getting the newest models. One friend has had 8 new cameras since I got the Z6 and he still has not developed a style or perspective in his images to see them as any more than snapshots.
All that said, the ZF looks good, with great features and the new AF functions so a lot of people will be interested, but with so few missed focus frame AF would not be high priority for me, 2 in 500 frames is typically my missed focus rate with the Z6 so if it goes to 1 in 500 it would be hard to justify switching
The Z8 is probably the addition that would make the biggest difference due to pixel count, if it plays nicely with strobe without a mechanical shutter. A Z7III would keep muscle memory retention from the Z6, will probably be my next addition so I hope it comes out before my next return visit to my native USA. I would be there 2 weeks, so I will need to wait for the initial rush by the camera switchers to settle down so they are on shelves.
Your videos are the ones that I pay attention to, you are most informed, have the best balance of priorities and offer the most reliable insights so I hope to see your episodes about final release firmware performance of the ZF.
All very clearly xplained
This looks amazing and it is packed!
I would love to see touch fn implemented on Z6Ii. I was using canon R6 a few days ago and it is very useful function to have..
What's the C setting on the ISO dial? And do the knobs lock in place at all settings or similar to Zfc where the shutter dial only locks in certain positions?
For years I used a pair of Nikon FM2s, after beginning with Minoltas (SRT-201, XK, XD11). Then, I put my Nikons aside and took up bridge, as a hobby. When I, recently, decided to return to photography, I decided to go digital and sold my manual gear and bought a Z6, after flirting with the Z50, which I have since passed on to my daughter. Now, I have the Zf which reminds me, aesthetically, of my old FM2s. I couple it with the 24-70 f/4, despite having a few primes, and am a happy camper.
My first Nikon was a well used black body Nikkormat. The dials didn't wear like that, but the edges and corners of the camera had the brassing that you talk about. Wish I'd never sold it.
Ricci, can you answer: are all the buttons customisable? As in the AE.L button, the information button, the front bottom near the lens. Also, do the front and rear control dials click in as a button as well as being wheels (like Fuji buttons?). I love the camera but coming from Fuji where I don’t have to ever open the menu because of the number of customisable buttons, understanding exactly what we can customise on this body would be a great help. Thank you.
Amazing .. fuji ish and i love it
Thanks Ricci, what are your thoughts on 40 f2.0 ? I am a Sony user with A7iii and A7iv. Was looking to get a travel cam and looked at Fuji XS20, A6700, A7Cii but Nikon Zf looks like a good option for casual use. At the same time wondering if the weight would be hinderance. So the 40 f2 becomes important to keep the overall package down. But heard some bad reviews of it when shot wide open. Would be great to listen to your thoughts on it. thanks.
What’s the refresh rate on the evf? Is it essentially blackout free (like Z9) or does it go into ‘slideshow’ mode at high fps?
I really like the highlight priority exposure on my D810 and Z9. Is that feature available on the ZF?
Well hello my pretty! And the camera 📷
thx for the informative video! one question: do you really need to press the center button of the speed wheel all the time when you want to change the speed? also im with you: why did nikon not shipped the camera with the brass shown on the sides? :)
A very good review. Are its AF accuracy and speed on bar with that of the Z9? Thanks.
Thanks Ricci. Is the top plate brass too?
I notice the iso dial has a “c” setting, I assume this enables auto iso on the Zf thankfully.
I’d love to see the Zfc have this option for the H1 and H2 position of the same dial as it would reduce the amount of menu diving on a retro camera…
Great video! BTW on your timeline text you might want to change "Tough Fn" to "Touch Fn"... although Tough sounds pretty cool! 🙂
That Brass look is very cool Nikon !
This is by far the most in Depth review
You‘re a savage for „forcibly patina“ the dials 🤣🤣🤣
Ricci, The most informative review of all! All things equal, i would have preferred the update of the Z6ii. And wish they would have added the shutter cover to help keep dust off the sensor (my Z50 gets more sensor dust than any other camera i’ve owned). But how long will we have to wait for the Z6iii? Plus, i do prefer the flip out screen for vertical and tripod composing, which may not be put on the Z6iii. So yes, have put a pre-order down and am mulling on this hard.
Looks great but many little questions that will take time and documentation to answer.
Obviously there will be speculation about what of the new featured on the Zf could be added to the Z8/Z9 - Focus Point VR and HighRes being just 2 - but if course you cannot speculate.
Specific questions -- how customisable are the buttons on the Zf -- can the AE-L button be used as AF Mode+AF-ON like the Z8/Z9 allows on their programmable buttons.
The Touch AF "pad" is something I go used to on the X2D-100C and it is fine.
Does Subject Detection include Aviation or is it the same as the Z9?
How to use High Res Shooting - 4, 8, 16, 32 shots -- but a maximum 96MP RAW file out from NX Raw
What is the difference when using each option particularly 16 or 32 shots -- are there frame averaging benefits as well.
DOWN SIDES -- micro HDMI port and micro SD -- but at least they are there.
Questions -- rolling shutter with this "slower" sensor -- ok not the same sensor as the Z6ii but .... how will it perform in video or Electronic Shutter?
Power consumption - battery life - I could not see a CIPA measurement for stills.
Looks dope with the brass exposed
I just pre-ordered the Zf in the Bordeaux Red!
I gave in and pre-ordered mine. I'll be reselling my Z6 ii along with other lenses to make up the difference and I'm pretty much getting this for free. Once Nikon releases the Z6 iii (which BTW, I think it would probably be bumped to a high MP range), I'll purchase that as my main body.
A brilliantly detailed video, thank you Ricci.
Question-1: Does it have focus stacking please?
Question-2: Does using a lens with VR with the in-camera stabilization achieve a higher figure?
I am really interested in one of these cameras for both the retro looking style, but more importantly getting features from the Z8 when the cost of one of those is beyond my reach. Fantastic Nikon :-)
Ricci, great reivew!! Any idea how to set Back Button Focus up?
Well done Ricci...
The new Zf is like a small F3, not a FM2, but i like it.
Best regards from Spain.
NANO:
I can't imagine another reviewer getting away with abrading a review camera to see how the patina will look. I also had no idea I was really interested in that "feature". Huge props. :^)
my comment isn't so much for the new Nikon Zf camera but for Nikon ibis in the Z9. I'm a sport photographer and while at a baseball game at a major league game here in south Florida, my Z9 fell from about 4.5 feet onto the concrete seating area. The camera somehow detached itself from the FTZ adapter while attached to a Nikon 400mm 2.8 lens while resting over my shoulder on a monopod. I am sure it was locked on the adapter. So.......this was a sickening feeling but I picked it up, reattached it to the lens and fired at high fps rate and it worked just fine but I sent it to Nikon for an examination and to check the ibis specifically. It hit the concrete so hard that there were indentions into the frame top near the aperture dial. the report form Nikon was no damage to report. That was an amazing fall for the Z9 to come through without damage and I checked the ibis when I got it back and yes it worked fine, I wonder if it locks when turned off. Nikon makes a tough camera. I've used it for many games since and it performs just fine. Don't drop your camera......
Thank you for your last quick response, one more question, does ZF have extended shutter speeds for long exposure? I will preorder if yes, I want one in green, thank you!
Hi Ricci, is there a way to set profiles for different shooting styles in camera like U1,2,3 on z6?