Testing the "EDS" - A Chinese Engineered alternative to Sram AXS
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- čas přidán 29. 10. 2022
- The EDS is a wireless derailleur and shifter engineered in China by Wheeltop. THE EDS promises to offer similar performance to Sram AXS, with good battery life, chain retention, and wireless performance. Today we're going to find out if that's true!
The unit featured in the video is pre-release, and so the firmware and app are not 100% finished.
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Props to the cameraman for that underwater shot of the derailleur. 👌🏻
Curtis braved the water that day in way too cool of weather… we should have brought waders or something.
@@BermPeakExpress Curtis is epic
@@BermPeakExpress Do you have another account through which you send responses?
@@erospersonal3 no
@@BermPeakExpress if I worked for u guys I'd be in the water in 2 seconds
Been waiting for this. This product just forced SRAM and Shimano to do variable speeds on their next gen derailleurs, not because they didn't think about it, but because they intentionally withheld it so they could charge more money for a so called "upgrade". This is now an expectation at no additional cost. Great review.
Too bad SRAM or SHIMANO don’t own the IP for speed configurable electronic bicycle drivetrains.
I doubt it. They will try to pretend this doesn’t exist for awhile. Eventually when that doesn’t work they will demonize it or potentially sue them. When all else fails, they will release a new product with some intangible benefit like 13-speed. There’s no way they’re gonna let you buy a cheap 10 or 11 speed cassette (or off-brand) to pair with their top drivetrain.
Personally, I have no loyalty to either of the big two brands. They’ve stifled competition for long enough. I’ll buy this when it’s up to snuff. Hope they make a decent dropbar shifter someday too. BTW, Can you imagine perfectly spaced shifts for all the cheap cassettes out there!
Competition is always good on customers
The derailler cage length is different when using a 50thooth vs a 42 tooth or 36.
The longer it is, the stiffer the clutch has to be and the chain will still move more.
Look at DH 7sp derailleur , a lot smaller…
@@WordupG ZERO chance of getting the Chinese in court 🤣
Went riding at Bryce Park in VA yesterday. Half the people I talked to on the lift wound up mentioning Seth in some way. You're a full on celebrity in the mtb community, and well deserved. You've had a hugely positive impact on generations of riders around the country, not to mention your success with Berm Park. Cheers!
I love that place, I dont know why but brewthru is my favorite
@@sendyboi7028 Nice, I hit Old Fashioned hard yesterday!
Loooove Bryce!
Wow, here in Georgia, there are no lifts and hardly any downhill trails with jumps.
How's Bryce? Ive only ridden snowshoe so far !
Sorry for those poor translation in the manual😂, “轮峰” is a small company in China, it used to make entry level OEM products like Chainring or crank. the Application problem might because it only can downloaded in China( where google play is banned).
And that confusing page of manual just means push the downside button will downshift.
So are these issues getting fixed?
seth has an iphone so the google play argument doesnt work.
I’m glad to see it was only lost in translation. I think to get this out to the North American market that would be an easy fix. Most everything we need to know is in the app. The hardware is the hard part and it looks promising!
@@BermPeakExpress you should prolly pin this
@这里是Axelrod Yao how can I get one shipped to Argentina?
The fact that you can select the number of gears makes me want it. Sram needs to do this. If they make it for all speeds more people will buy it.
Yeah, that's a cool feature. Also, Shimano 12 speed and SRAM 12 speed have slightly different sprocket distances for their cassettes I think?
@@sp00n I feel that you should be able to tune each shift the number of shifts etc. The fact that you can't is the reason I have not bought one yet. They are locking you into only there stuff. You should be able to use aftermarket gears.
@@sp00n I dont think that they do. Remember all that spacing still has to fit is the same axle/frame spacing and I have seen Shimano/Sram hybrid stuff alot. People running SRAM AXS and shimano cassettes. I think ultimaltely SRAM was first to the game with AXS and they are using it to sell their entire drive train. The Archer D1x was their only competition before but its a hybrid wireless set up that works with any RD. But Shimano is coming with one. Let the competition begin!
@@chrisjones7281 when I was a young man I had XO on an XT cassette
Dude that would be so sick
I love the chinese bike market, im a roadie and recently we’ve been blessed with sensah and ltwoo’s latest groupsets offering performance and weight from 1500-2000€ groupsets for 200-300€. The chinese market is a blessing as western companies will have to adjust prices to keep customers. People used to be skeptical about chinese market products but more and more people are getting into it atm.
What parts did you buy exactly. Interested in these groupsets myself.
@@Ep1o havent gotten a groupset on aliexpress myself, but i did get carbon wheels there that are solid.
"Adjust prices" means lower worker pay and eliminate safety & environmental regulations. You realize this, right?
I don't know about you, but I kinda think it would be nice for our grand kids in the first world to have jobs in the future.
@@dudeonbike800 Sure, SRAM is charging higher prices for their Chinese-made components to give workers a better life. They weren't.
@@dudeonbike800 That's just prejudice. Laboral conditions in China have improved a lot, assuming they don't have cities and factories like we do is probably propagandistic nonsense.
Also, many countries make fun at the awful working environment and legislation in the US. You're basically not allowed to live a normal human life, many people even get punished for getting sick or having an accident, which in many countries is illegal to do.
I’m glad there are other options for components other than Shimano,SRAM, and Campagnolo. The bike industry is outrageously expensive.
Love that you did fairly objective review of a Chinese product. I think sometimes we immediately dismiss products from China just because. But this company’s actually been around longer than SRAM, they’re just not as well known. If these are viable competition , then it would be good for us consumers. I’d be curious to see the long term review. And yes, though the product may be good, I wonder why these companies don’t invest as much in the user experience (manuals and the app and user support).
yes actually that “1951” at the top of the manual is the year Wheeltop was established
The app must be much better in Chinese
They don't invest in user experience because they don't need too. At this moment, the 900k viewers of Seth's video know that you have to donwload their app and forget about the manual. Easy peasy!
As a Chinese, I feel sorry for their level of using Google translation 😂
I don't get why people piss on Chinese brands, especially wjen the vast majority of MTB components other then frames are made in China, vaitnam, or Indonesia.
That underwater derailleur shot through the creek was awesome. Nice work
This is the best channel. Seth you test everything from top of the line to super cheap. There's something for everyone and it's always entertaining. Thanks so much!
This is now available (just got an email). Picked it up at your recommendation, thanks for the review!.
Update, installed working GREAT but had a few questions regarding the EDS system and so far, 3 emails to customer service and no response.
Update* Received a response, everything explained. This system rips and love the individual gear adjustments!
How’s it holding up?
seths camera work has always been amazing and definitly puts the effort into his videos and never fails to make a cool vid he definitly deserves what he has keep up the good work seth!!
$400 is still quite an investment. I remember when dropper posts were super expensive and now you have great droppers at a fraction of the cost. Hopefully same happens to electronic shifting and electronic droppers etc etc.
Well you can get GX AXS upgrade kit for around 400 euros from Germany, so this doesnt make any sense for Europeans. Its kinda weird that the kit costs way more in the US.
well sram HQ probably in Germany because they always saying “german technology bla bla” that’s why it’s much affordable in europe
@@senderhillside7233 GX AXS kit is 350 euros from bike24, even cheaper than this. Of course, in NA sram/shimano charge way more because they can get away with it, and the price is over $600.
@@senderhillside7233 tell me how does the AXS work on 11 speed ;)
That is the most fucked up thing with shimano and sram. It COULD do it but they wont let us..
@@Vanadium To be honest the cheapest 12 speed cassettes and rear hub drivers kits doesnt cost that much. For 200 bucks the EDS would be more tempting.
Seth, love that you're still using the chain made out of all master links:)
The Cameraman's sense of cinematography especially on that Sunset and Underwater scene is so remarkable and professional like for real, Props to Seth for being Really patient in testing and Criticising these product, real professional right there
Hey Seth, your flip bike videos inspired my poor college self to buy a bucket of parts, slap it together with some touch-up paint and send it down a hill. Now I'm left wanting better this and smoother that (my bank account has rude things to say about the price of good parts). Thanks for inspiring me to do this, it's been a blast.
Production value off the chart now Seth. Brilliant vid as usual.
The fact that you can program it to any speeds is a gamechanger.
It even makes upgrading to electronic for most people cheaper than competition. Just thinking about possibility of running 7 speed with wireless seems so awesome, I hope they will add ability to fine tune each shifter position and it will be ultimate setup.
Absolutely. Buy three and just swap them on whatever bike you happen to be riding. Or loan one to a friend if he's busted his and can't get one in time but has a different setup.
Love the idea of this and hope this shout out helps propel them to where they want and need to be, great job 🤟
Thank you for all your hard work and commitment Seth.
Seth I love your content and you are an inspiration to all mtbers. You’re one of the reasons I started MTBing and the first video I watched on MTBing was made by you! Never stop posting, we all love your stuff!
Curious about the longevity. We’ll see if “strong, light, cheap: pick 2” applies here or not.
Also about the battery life. I dont know how it compares to others but 5% in one hour of riding seems a lot to me
@@samson03 Well Seth was specifically testing it so he must have shifted a lot more than you would usually do. 5% does not really seem like a lot in that case.
It will. It always does...
@@Alkhiman Could be. Thats why im already looking forward to his longterm review. Im also curious if the battery will degrade faster than the brand ones.
@@samson03 Because you are going to ride 20h continuously?
Your vids are still on pointe.I haven't been watching your vids lately and I still enjoy your funny and cool vibe.
As the great DJ Khaled would say......ANOTHER one! Another great video! Thanks Seth keep up the hard work and I know it is hard to put out so much but you do it perfectly like a well oiled chain at this point.
Looks like a decent purchase. I'll be waiting for the long term review
Always a good day when Seth uploads
So True
Buitiful
Great video and fantastic product review. Cheers for this.
Hi seth! sweet to see you riding again !
I was wondering about the different tools you have in your workshop. thinking about setting up a garage and wanted to see whats useful. maybe a video idea "Seths tool collection".
keep up the videos!
Wtf?
I waited for a review of this group set from someone, but I've never expect that you could be that one guy.
This EDS system shifter/Derailleur from wheeltop is already been used by some MTB rider in the Philippines,Also they sell it on some Budget bikes.,They even review,tested and blog also these item. This product was available already in asia almost a year ago..And they even have already 13 speed groupset available by different brands.
Muy buen video, buenas conclusiones, y excelentes tomas de camara. Enhorabuena !!!!
Electronic shifting is great for off road because it takes the pressure off your hands and increases shifting accuracy under vibrations and bumps, when your hands will feel tired and sore , the e shifting makes it easier andopens the door for more people to ride bikes at a higher level !
Hello seth love your vids!!
I have an Archer Components shifter. Works with any derailleur. They have their own app for programming. Great for the past year.
My archer the motor burned after a year i check with cie no warranty just a deal on another shifter...im back with mechanical shifter 😊
I have a race this morning and instead of getting ready first thing I didn’t was hop on CZcams to see if you posted and you did!
Damn that gear selection is awesome making the derailleur flexible to different set ups
This system's advantage is probably compatibility on different speeds of cassette and ease of install, although you might miss that good old mechanical feel of mechanical drivetrains.
Can't wait for a long term review on this like 6 months to maybe a year of use bc it seems quite promising but only time will tell if it will hold up to some proper use and abuse. 👍👍
Agree. Long term reliability and support are the issues. Bought it this month and they wrap up the business in a year..
I have been watching for a long time even though I don't mountain bike at all...but I just moved to Asheville and just realized I live like 15 minutes away from berm peak now. What a small world!
finally i been waiting for this to review
The fact that you can actually use it from 9 to 13 gears without buying new hardware is amazing, while other companies just lock their hardware to a fixed number just so you buy their newest version which might not be any better.
Please try to use it with a 13 speed cassette. you would probably need a gravel bike with campagnolo wheels though.
TMBN Tech also said the mentioned, "lack of quick shifting". I know for me, that's critical when shifting uphill.
Thank you so much seth you have inspired so many young riders to go and shred
Props to Seth for Having a lot of Patience on the Product like for real and The camera man for Gettibg good cinematic shots
I'm sure electronic shifters might have their uses for on-road biking, but considering my history of gleefully murdering derailleurs I will never-ever leave one worth $400 (or $1000) dangling from my rear axle, ever. Great video as always though! The underwater shot was really cool :)
I've broken a few mechanical ones but never an axs funny enough. They move all the way inwards when theres an impact then move back out. They're also way beefier constructions.
For what it's worth this seems like a great product that is soo close to being just right,. Keen to see if they can improve in the ways you suggest in time. I reckon for most average riders a product like this is just fine. Significantly cheaper than axs and if you smash it up its not the end of the world 😂
Love that you’re still using the quick link chain ahahah, perhaps a follow up on it in future
The review and the product was good but the icing on the cake was for sure the photography.
I like the option in app that lets the user to set the gear positions, so it could work with LINKGLIDE as i Heard it have slightly different gear spacing than regular cassetes (because of thicker cogs)
Can't wait until this is available for us in the US, I was contemplating buying the sram but price is too steep, specially for me, who has like 7 different hobbies at any given time lol.
Love you’re videos! Keep it up
Once again a amazing vid from our mtb dad seth!
I'm really into the new budget series. Testing parts we're afraid to buy. Build the cheapest bike possible that goes down trails.
I'd love to see Seth's take on Donut media's HiLow series but for mountain bikes
This seems like it would be cool for ebikes, lots of them are limited to 7 or 8 speed because hubmotors use freewheels.
A good idea would be to mount the shifter on a drop bar bike under/outside the right break lever and it can be shifter while in the drops and on the hoods!
Thanks for the review.
Lovely review, great to see Chinese firms pushing the market forward and the price down
I love Seth crazy bike here. The cheap wireless derailleur, the string spokes and the classic master link only chain 😂
Such a good video to have on my birthday!
thats pretty awesome. just got my GX axs hooked up. never thought id like electronic shifting
Seth:- "They also make cheaper option for 650 dollars"
Me with my 200 dollar bike:- right..... Cheap
Ah see, Cheaper. Is different then cheap!! lolol one implies it doesn't cost a lot, and the other.. well, we all know how many companies use "Cheaper" as a buzz word. Even tho it still costs more then most can afford. "Our cheaper carbon option is only 12k, that's 2k less then the premium option"
@@OmnieStar ahhhhh ic
Keep in mind this is designed for $3000 bikes
The ability to adjust the amount of gears makes this way more valuable in my book compared to Shimano or Sram alternatives.
I want to say something important.
So I've first started using electronic shifting 3 years ago in 2019, I am using Shimano XT derailleur and it's been very consistent, so no problems with it so far, the battery lasts for months, it lasts so long that I don't even remember when I last charged it haha
Maintenance, NONE other than making sure your derailleur doesn't get too dirty so when I wash my bike I scrub the derailleur as well.
My thoughts on this Chinese product is that is totally worth it, electronical shifting is always perfect and doesn't need any maintenance compared to mechanical shifting which can be a bit problematic because of shifting cables loosening in time.
Kudos! An honest review...
Archer Components would be another wireless drivetrain to tryout. The DX1 Trail runs about $450 bluetooth compatible with your cell to program 9-12 speeds and you can use your existing derailleur on you bike. I'm looking to add this on my bike when winter rolls when I start upgrading some parts on my bike.
Archer is not true wireless. It’s a gimmick. It still uses wires.
@@GokkunGuru It still uses (a very short) cable from the derailleur to the shifting box. But it is wireless from the handlebar to the shifting box. There are some big advantages to this setup, namely you keep the electronic bits from getting whacked, like a derailleur could be. Its also hardware agnostic. Not saying its for everyone, but it isn't a gimmick, it has some real usage.
Plus Archer owns the IP for speed configurable drivetrains.
@@GokkunGuru Any speed cassette with any derailleur. Programmable from phone app. Far from a gimmick. It's been updated based on user feedback and all long term reviews are positive.
@@Bertie.. I don’t see how Archer provides any advantage apart from giving users a false sense wireless. You’re pretty much cutting the shifter cable and adding a motor near the chainstay to “wire” it to the rear mech. It still uses wires, albeit a shorter one. The speed which the remote shifts the motor has been proven to be slower than cable actuated. Archer released a battery upgrade to combat this known problem but I’m not sure if it solved it. Anyways true wireless is AXS and the Chinese Wheel Top EDS which has been pulled from the company website.
I wonder if issues like shifting speed would be fixed by firmware updates?
Great find thanks. Great video love the videos
Great review -- feels truly non-biased. The only thing that would have made it perfect is you would have disclosed more upfront and clearly that they sent this to you for review.
SRAM GX AXS pricing is way off as retailers sell it for much less (no idea why so much under SRP), i just bought the GX AXS upgrade kit and it was 399EUR (price even includes 19% VAT).
5:16 seems like the app is in Beta since 1951. I'm not sure it will improve much after 70+ years. 🙈
😂😂😂
😂😂I saw that too
Wow. As i stare at my axs xx1 setup. Im sending this video to friend's. Keep shredding Bro
una explicación al detalle, muchas gracias 🤝💪
Damn! This is a positive feedback for EDS overall! Will definitely compete against Sram and Shimano.
My only concern aside from your review is the battery. How long does it last before charging? Some cyclist used their bikes for endurance long distance cycling (24hrs or more on the saddle)
Wheeltop said in presentation batteries tested 1 charge can last 24000 shift, enough to support usage for 1500km-2000km range.
Very nice. Chinese components are catching up with the big name brands with more affordable options, my only issue with the more affordable Chinese components is that although they work amazing out of the box, they do not last very long, sometimes just a few months to a year.
Easy to make cheap parts with basically slave labor
saw this video once of the pivot of a Chinese frame just giving out, could honestly be pretty dangerous, probably safer to just stick to the big name brands, a faulty part on your bike could mean the difference between you having a healthy bone vs you having a broken one
That and how much IP they steal. A lot of R&D goes into making a good product, which drives up costs. China is all too happy to cut those costs out by just stealing and reverse engineering products, then reproducing and a lower quality.
I'd better buy cheap components from shimano. For example, like Seth said in other video, MT200 brakes lasts a long a time and usually need no service. Mine MT200 is 4 years old and I did nothing to them in plan of service and they are still powerful
@@jwativ13 yeah this might be a factor too, never thought about that
Hopefully long term it has good water resistance. Great video as always
Check the directions about the upper and lower limit screws. If it’s at all like Shimano, there should be a small clearance between the screw stops and the derailleur body when set correctly. If the derailleur ends up constantly contacting/resting on the limiters, it could cause battery drain or excessive wear on the derailleur motor.
A working wireless setup at that price? Dang it Seth you have me wanting to buy this now 😂
Nothing like the clicks of a proper lever shifter though. Downgrading to buttons is a bummer.
Only $640 :/
I love how you used the master link chain
Appreciate for your work
I would be curious to see how it handles impacts. I wonder if it moves out of the way, then back to its original position like Axis. 🧐
That's probably one of the most important properties. Derailleurs are kind of consumable items for me, and thrashing 400 bucks because it behaves poorly when being hit is a no-go.
You mentioned it's not available in North America yet. I wonder if SRAM has any US patents that may keep it out of widespread availability?
Or Shimano. I do wonder what kind of clutch this unit has, as it works very well. To develop a totally new clutch without infringing on a patent would be more impressive than the electronics.
Hi, I suffered a big injury. I have been recovering but is not going to be the same as before for a long time. Went riding again but couldn’t finish the trail, got help and went back. Someone told me to get a e-bike conversion for one of my MTB’s or hybrid so I go on riding again with the assistance I need. I would love to see you get, a Bafang e-bike conversion. I really not going for a e-bike “per se” bike for the moment and the crank assist system seems like an option. Keep it Seth, blessings to you and your family
My goodness! 🤣🤣 I drew tears when you started on that manual!
CONGRATS !!👆
YOU WON A GIFT🎁...
Hey Seth, would be great to see how a 29 fork feels when installed on a bike originally on a 27.5 fork. I've seen some good deals on 29 forks but no luck on 27.5 yet. Thanks
Id love to see Seth test the 13 speed drivetrain made by SRide.🤞
13? Wow
Our current HG hubs are not long enough to fit that cassette.
The 12 speed version seems doesn’t has a good reputation here in China. The clutch is delicate .
@@brianpham2584 with longer lock ring an that hope 9t adapter will fit. an guy here on brazil made an 9-50 cassete with 13s
The “has deal with fire” bit cracks me up every time
thank you for sharing very useful tips about bicycles
Seth:- "They also make cheaper option for 650 dollars"
My 250$ bike: am I a joke to u?
Cheaper is a relative term and doesn't mean cheap.
Yes, you are a joke. I have a Axum also. As a beater :)
Crazy how Chinese manuals and stuff are not user friendly. I mean, it’s not that hard to fix these mistakes.
It takes a guy like Seth to make sense of of it! Great video, thanks a lot!
They should really just hire a proper translator for some bucks and maybe a graphics designer imo
@@WisteriaBerlitz exactly!
Maybe they will improve. It doesn't sound like this was really quite ready for US release.
It's surprising that this is still so common, you'd think Chinese businesses would have realised there is a lot of value in hiring someone to do English translation, product user guides etc. The hardware is often spot on but the documentation rarely is.
@@adaycj I'd reckon they had international sales in mind when they printed the manual in part English instead of all Chinese
But to be fair, it's possible they'll release an updated international version with proper English later
Great review!!
ok the samba at 3:24 caught me up 🤧 cheers from Brazil 🇧🇷
I'll stick with my old school cable derailleur. Water, dirt and dog attacks, check still working just fine.
Yeah, electronic devices don't have room on my bike
You've never had a cable snap due to rust? (I guess I need to change mine more frequently than every 10 years.)
That cost more than my DIY ebike.
But, hey, good to see cheaper option than the overpriced branded stuff.
Buy 2 and send me one!
I guess this is the price you can offer when you cut down on the R&D of fine-tuning ergonomics, good user manuals in many different languages, actual product photos rather than Photoshop abominations and probably thorough testing.
It might still work, but when you buy from well known brands, you can usually expect some guarantee that it will work, even in some more difficult situations.
Satisfying to watch ❤️
thank you for the info! ridesafe always ! 🤘🤙🥰💙🧡🚴🔥
"Babe wake up, Seth just drop a video!"
Hi
Hi
Hello
Hello there
hello
Hey!
The awesome thing is now we have a good video to go back to when we buy one!
If the company was smart, they’d pay close attention to this video and the comments and make changes. 🤙🏼
great work seth.