.4 Nozzles on the Prusa XL 5 Toolhead - Benchy Test
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- čas přidán 20. 12. 2023
- Testing out and comparing the .4 nozzles to the .Ways to Support TADA3DPrinting -
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Your videos continue to be an honest gauge of the XLs progress. When I get that "convert your order email", I hope your XL operates like the workhorses the NK3S+ are.
Her results are abysmal compared to what I get. I have absolutely no clue wtf she is doing to have results this bad.
@@TheUnPlayable Its like the MMU2. Some people it just works, while others it never does. Prusa needs to deliver more consistent on this very expensive printer.
Yeah I keep feeling like I've almost got it figured out. Then I print something else and have a different issue. But I think it's getting better. Thank you!
I only have a single 0.4 nozzle so I have not been able to do multi-material with 0.4, but I have noted that even with certain settings dialed in there seems to be variability from print to print. For example I'm having serious issues with first layer spacing from the print bed, even though it's supposed to be perfect every time
She's giving a very detailed reporting of what she's doing. These large toolchangers are complicated to run so these videos are very useful. @dsjove Are you using 0.4 nozzles? --There may be unique challenges of doing thin layers on such a big bed.
Hey hi! I rewatch the print in slowmo and it printed the chimney but knocked it out. I think you are printing too cold and the layer adhesion is not good.
I hadn't noticed that but you're right. That makes sense on the one I printed at a cooler temp. But the last one was back to stock. I may have to look at that again. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting
Or the cooling fan is too high.
It will ramp up for the chimney. I had a similar issue where it ramped up for a bridge and weakened it so much the part snapped exactly on this layer height every time I tried.
@@tada3dprinting Hey! I saw some mean comment about you beiing inexperienced, that's not fair. You are learning and doing the right things for troublshooting. Honestly you doing pretty good. The probleme you are facing isnt that simple, a lot of parameters are involved.
You are right about the temperature for the last benchy, doesnt make sense. Even at low temperature like 200 the layer adhesion of PLA is pretty good.
There is something else going on.
Rewatching the video I noticed à hole where the chimney should be. That's very strange. You should have black or white but not nothing. Have à look in the slicer at what color should be there.
All of that make me think....are they both rolls of PLA? Is one PETG? because as you may know PLA and PETG doesnt stick toghether.
Last point, I agree with other comment about drying your filament. Depending on the climat were you live it could be part of the problem. All of that seems related to ozing.
@@sorcier4429yeah lol, I've been printing for 7 years now and I'd be frustrated too at this point. Not a simple problem!
Did a boat as well with 0,6 nozzle for my first XL print. Two head XL but used only one head because that the main usecase for me. It looked decent on surfaces but had some serious extra masses here and there. Specially on the chimney.
So I turned on showing the head movement in the slicer. The chimney layers are ok, but the movements are nuts. It does some extra circles every now and than. And it's showing as big blobs on the surface. Maybe some layer time optimization nor something. But the same program does not add these extra circles on MK2,5 and MK3 profiles.
Overall the printer is ok on the hardware side but the software is raw. Getting a decent benchy should be minimal result for complex testing but it fails with it.
I'm guessing the stringing you see has most likely to do with parked tools oozing filament, because they're still hot and the nozzle seal below them isn't properly covering the nozzle. Check out the "XL Five-Head (Semi-Assembled)" assembly manual: Chapter 6, Step 24 "Nozzle Seal Adjustment" if that's the case. Only takes a minute to adjust them.
A close-up shot of your nozzle & nozzle seals during a normal print might help identify this issue.
Prusa chat mentioned this when I contacted them again. Planning to do a video. Thanks so much!
In the second print you had the chimney until 7:37 where it comes off.
Thanks for pointing it out. I didn't even notice it.
Been following your chronicles of this printer for quite some time (I commented in the past I cancelled my preorder because of the crazy variances in the machines). I find it heartbreaking that it STILL isn't giving good results after the time and money you've invested in trying to make it work. Your videos are honest from a "user" standpoint and not a "tinkerer" standpoint. I'm not sure if you've mentioned it on other videos perhaps but I have heard people mention the tool heads being lose or not quite aligned correctly and it caused a lot of issues. Maybe check them for misalignment or things being crooked or something?
Thanks for watching! I see a lot of pictures of Facebook and get some comments of others loving their XLs. I've tried to recreate the settings but still haven't figured it out for my machine. I think I'm going to run the calibration again and just see if everything clears. Thanks!
Great testing technique!!!
Change as little as possible when you're struggling to solve a problem.
Thanks for all your time in keeping us updated. I'm hope to launch a CZcams channel in the next month or two to share my adventures.
Sometimes it's so frustrating when you feel like you need huge improvements tho! Oh that'll be fun to have a channel! Will it be about 3d printing or more engineering type things? Thanks!
Yeah but 35 years of manufacturing experience says small steps will lead to quicker results and you'll know what the fix was. That could be priceless in the future.
I understand the pressure to get results. When on of the big machines I used to work on was down the company was loosing $10,000 a minute.
@@tada3dprintingI plan to start with 3D printing and design. Some of my stuff will point to other who have worked their problems, like you.
@@tada3dprinting Do you reside somewhere with high humidity? Just wondering if you have moisture in the filament. If you share your gcode and .3mf files I will give it a go.
I just got an XL and really like your videos. Thanks!
Thanks so much!
Did you do the “pin dance” calibration when you changed those 2 nozzles?
Yes! And oddly all of my pins seemed loose enough that I could remove them without the tool. Tried to tighten them up a little more. Thanks!
I think the missing link now is Nozzle brushes. I'm not sure why they don't include some.
There are some Diy ones out there, but they should include some so that every time a nozzle changes it runs it over a brush.
Yes I have seen them. I was trying to not go too far from stock settings etc. But it might be time. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I honestly think a brush is a good idea even on single head machines. I print mostly PETG and that tends to stick too the nozzle a lot, so I'm cleaning the nozzle before every print.
Most industrial printers have built in brushes and actually move over to hit the brush between every layer.
The standards for an industrial print are much higher than a hobby printer.
@@tada3dprinting i think the problem is more wet filament, but those brushes will help as well
I wouldn't worry about that heating disabled message it is just a message that it is turning off the nozzles and heatbed after the printer has been sitting idle AFTER it's finished printing. Question is though why it didn't cooldown automatically after your print and only 30mins after. You will also get it if you load filament or preheat and not print anything for 30mins etc. It's like standby/energy saving I guess, like turning off screen or putting laptop to sleep after x amount of inactivity.
Thank you
I still have my deposit for the XL but I am seeing so many issues that I will keep waiting to see if Prusa can fix it by framware update! For a 2.5k + printer I can't believe that you have so many issues, and you are not the only one!
Tks for sharing your "" / update on the XL. I have been waiting for 2 years but now I don't even know if I want to risk it. I don't need more merchandise but will send you money for your time!
I have seen others, especially on Facebook that seem very happy with theirs. I think different types of prints may factor into things too. My smaller prints are the ones I have the most trouble with. This has definitely been the most trouble I've had with a printer in a long time. But it's hard to say what your experience will be! I would definitely wait until your email and decide then.
@@tada3dprinting with all that you know now would you make the same choices?
do you have a Patreon page or an easy way to send you money for your time debugging the XL and keeping me aware of the development? @@tada3dprinting
That last time lapse shows the chimney printing, then breaking off.
I didn't notice that in the video. Thank you!
Interesting seeing you problems. I've got a 5head XL about 1 moth ago. My experience is wonderful. I haven't experiences this kind of stringing. I was able to print a regular single color Benchy with my custom setting under 25 mins. It has some issues because of low cooling. In "regular" preset speed it was great. I has issues with stringing when i put wet filament in. After a drying in my drier for about a 6 hours stringing was gone. I also tried to print temperature tower to decide the best temp for my filament.
Was yours fully assembled or partially assembled?
Good question about the assembly. Mine was "fully" assembled. Makes me wonder if others that are having good results were fully or partially assembled. I'm glad that yours is working so well!
@@falxonPSN It was semi assembled.
Is there a fix for the low cooling issue?
Actually I lowered the room temperature ;-) I am still thinking to mod the XL tools an cable "routing" within it to include a hose with cool air.
Hi there. Really love watching your videos. I have learned a ton. Thank you. Maybe you already ruled this out… but Prusa mentioned dry filament is super important for proper XL printing. Have you ruled that out yet? Thanks again for you awesome videos!
I haven't yet because I don't have issues with my other printers even the single TH XL. But I think it's time to try it. Thank you!
Also have the XL 5T prints great. Default settings, old PLA filament. Do need to get a smaller nozzle for the detail. Mine arrived beginning of December.
I'm happy to hear that yours is working so well! I would love to reprint something on mine with all the same settings etc that worked on yours so I could rule out a lot of things. Feel free to email me! Thanks!
Using default settings. Generic PLA setting for each filament. Also see if it is linked to a particular tool. I would try with only one filament.
@@tada3dprinting I have tried to e-mail you but can not find your e-mail address.
I've heard you mention Prusa-Slicer, I'd check the settings under Print and Printer tabs. I had a totally different kind of print failure because Z-Lift (Hop) was disabled. I thought I had enabled that awhile back (could be I just considered it but didn't). I'm wondering if it got changed in a configuration update.
I will be checking more closely when I get new Prusa-Slicer updates.
Ok thank you!
I've had my XL for a few days. It came with 0.4 but I liked 0.6 on my old MK3 so I bought it with 0.6 as well. I haven't installed 0.6 yet as I figured I should try 0.4 and do some research. I think I'm going to stick with 0.4 for awhile but make a faster profile than the defaults. Most of my prints are larger items with little detail.
Yeah you may like one size for certain prints and the other for different ones. Thanks!
The smoke stack seems like it should be something like "Detect thin walls" being disabled the different print settings. Could use the prusaslicer comparison function to have it compare to sets of settings to show you all the differences at once. Be sure to check the "Show incompatible" box, otherwise it only shows you the settings for that version of the printer you have with or without input shaping on that specific nozzle. You could also use the cut tool in Prusaslicer to just cut the top off the benchy and print just the roof with the stack for faster testing.
Also, after you get that sorted out, one reason I switch from 0.4 on my other printer is because I liked to print with filaments that have a tendency to jam (anything with flecks of stuff in them like galaxy or marble, silk filament that seems to slip more than matte filaments). Running at 215C and above was another way to avoid jams, but you're finding success with lower temps so no reason to change what is working for you.
Thanks so much!
0:37 The "Arrange" command was working properly, but it doesn't take the Brim on the wipe tower into account, I assume that's because Brim parameter (on both wipe tower and model) is user adjustable in Print Settings. You could try Right-clicking on the Arrange button and adjusting the distance between objects
OK thank you!
I wrote it up as a bug on PrusaSlicer. Arrange should take into account current 'first layer' slicing parameters, brim, skit, first layer expansion, etc.
@@dsjove Good idea! It'd be one less thing to have to worry about
Have you tried printing temp towers and retraction tests for your filaments to see what temps your filament works best at, and what the retraction length should really be? I have several Prusa machines and regardless what the recommended settings are in PrusaSlicer. I always do these tests to figure out what works for mine.
I did at the .6 nozzle and found that 190 was best. But sometimes I had underextrusion. Prusa chat told me if I am running Input Shaping, to not run it any cooler. But I don't mind trying it. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Look up the 3D printer calibration videos by Teaching Tech. He has a great website and set of videos that have everything you'd need for testing.
🤦♀ I was so hoping the switch to 0.4mm nozzles would be helpful. I would second the other comment that said doing test prints like a temp tower would be helpful. I also agree that using prusament that has been dried would be the best way to rule out any issue with the filament. I use the same brand of filament you are using in my XL5 and I am running all 0.4mm nozzles (I am using the hardened ones, but it should not make much difference). And I am not seeing any of the issues. But our local weathers are probably very different so the humidity might have some role.
Do you print mostly large or small prints? I will dry the filament just to be sure. Glad to hear you're happy with yours! Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I have been doing a combination - sometimes very tiny prints with small details and multi-colors and sometimes larger. Mostly I am using PETG or PCCF though, not too much PLA. But I have printed with PLA too. I've had my XL5 for I think about 2 months now - I got the kit, not the fully-assembled one. And I do not think I have done anything other than switch out the nozzles. I got the hardened 0.4mm nozzles when they were available (though I had to place 3 orders because they only allowed 2 nozzles per cart). I am seeing a tiny bit of color swap residue sometimes so maybe I will try that brass brush mod. I was so hoping the switch to 0.4 would solve all your issues. But do not give up. Like many people here said, a methodical approach is best. The hardware is solid, and the profiles are nearly there. I think because the XL is so much more of a complex machine it will not be such an easy thing to install a profile and it just works like it does on the MK4/mini. It will require some user changes because it is as you say, all the XL machines seem to be slightly different.
Hmm, I wonder if going a bit old school would help at all by using and ooze shield. I /think/ it's still an option in Prusa Slicer. I've not had reason to use it so I don't remember. As to the chimneys, they both almost printed and then got yeeted off for some reason. Very strange.
I hadn't noticed that the chimneys popped off. I came back in and it was printing in space and dragging it onto the print tower. That does seem more like a temp thing. Hmmm
So strange… my 2T XL just prints great, better than my MK3S with MMU3. Haven’t done benchy but my production prints for sale with 2 colors just look great and if there stringing it is similar to my MK3. Most prints on 0.6 nozzle, just a few on 0.4. And almost no fails so far with A LOT of printing done last month. Super interesting videos!
That's great to hear! Do you print a lot of large or small items? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting that might be it, I am printing mostly boardgame inserts, so on the larger side and with color changes limited to fewer layers. Still need to do a ‘full’ test of a complete multicolor print, but doing text on the side of a box in color (some 2cm height) with 0.6 nozzle and IS 0.32 layer height, it just worked.
Seeing all the problems reported by others I even ordered the brass brushes to install by the tool parking position and… have not seen any need to install them yet!
Maybe I got extremely lucky or the type of prints I am doing do not expose the problems many people are seeing. I have had stringing but same roll also strings on the MK3 and MK4, and it’s quickly solved by putting filament on drier. I also don’t have the drooping people see.
The chimney is visible at 5:08 and 7:36 then vanishes each time. There must still be a problem with the vertical calibration between the toolheads so that white starts too high and there is a weak joint between colors. As a diagnostic, I'm curious what happens when you print the same benchy in the dead center of the bed.
That's a good point. I was having trouble after I partially slid out my nozzles to put the silicon socks on each (can't really do that with them fully installed) and had trouble with bed adhesion until I did the nozzle offset calibration with the pin. After that, things went back to normal. I find that odd because the printer should be probing the bed so it shouldn't matter what height the nozzle is after you make adjustments.
Interesting idea to put it in the middle. I agree the chimney is getting hit. Thanks!
I just did a few tests on my XL (2TH) and I had a similar experience with one of my prints where it didn't print the smoke stack. I'm making a video of it now to see if I can repeat the issue. My first print of the multi-color Benchy worked pretty well (Less stringing and artifacts than yours), however, the second test was a disaster though :) I'm wondering if it's a bug in the latest Firmware and/or Slicer. If I get the same results, I'll send the 3MF off to Prusa.
Test completed and it finished successfully, but has a lot of stringing. Probably because of the lack of purge tower and a few other settings.
Have you been getting good results with other prints? Thanks!
@@tada3dprintingyes, I'll post a video when I get back from Christmas vacation in a week.
Have you tried drying your filament to troubleshoot stringing?
Not yet because I can print them just fine ok everything else. But it's probably time to try it. Thank you!
That's disappointing. A couple of things that I noticed. On your last benchy, it looked from your timelapse as if it did actually start to print the white portion of the chimney, and then it broke off. I wonder if the lower temperatures are causing poor layer adhesion between the black and white filaments where that chimney attaches.
Also, regarding the message about the heating timing out, I think probably what happened on that run is that the printer was keeping the bed or the nozzles warm for some reason, but after 30 minutes it timed out and stopped. I'm not sure why it would have been keeping anything warm if it thought the print was finished, but maybe that's a bug? On my MK4, I've definitely noticed that it keeps the bed and nozzle hot if you change filament, so maybe there's something about how that print ended that caused it to think it needed to keep warm.
Yeah I found two broken pieces of chimneys below the bed afterwards. Very likely the temp on third benchy. But the fourth was back up to normal temps again.
Yeah I'm not sure why it thought it needed a filament swap. Thanks!
What’s up with the prime tower on the later prints? Something went very wrong since filament is draping off!
I think when the chimney broke, it started printing in air and then drug that squiggle back to the prime tower?
sometimes the black and white layers are not holding enough together. How well the layers hold on the purge tower? Can you try different filament combination? Often I saw that extra white and extra black filaments are having a lot of additives not behaving well.
Good points. Might as well try different colors. Thanks!
@tada3dprinting: Would you be so kind to share the settings/gcode you used for your tests. I think it is a good idea to do this on printables or the Prusa forum. I would like to try to reproduce your test, as I am quite satisfied with the print results I get from my XL.
It's just the Prusa Research two color benchy with default settings. But I think I have figured out how to improve it. Thank you!
I don't have the ths string issues you are experiencing on my XL. A few things you could try -- make sure your ooze shield is level with your nozzle, use the 0.6 printer configuration in Prusaslicer and manually set the nozzle size in the printer settings in the slicer to 0.4, do an offset calibration after every nozzle change.
Ok thanks so much!
the offset calibration make sense @@tada3dprinting
Do you recalibrate the tool offsets after changing the nozzles?
I still have no issues without a primetower and optimal dried filaments.
Try to dry you filament again.
I have not tried drying the filaments because I don't have issues on any other printer but maybe it's time. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Dry it and you will love it. No need for prime tower any more and NO stringing.
With the streaking, would it maybe be beneficial moving your print tower further away from your model? It seems like with how close it is, it is not giving the nozzle much room to yank the filament away from the model.
That's a good idea. Thank you
I had the same issues until I dried my filaments always before printing. It even made bad first layers due to oozing. Try that first because it is the easiest step 😊
Thank you?
i am exspecting my XL 5TH to arrive tomorrow. I have been seeing this " dry your filament" stuff and to be honest, I think its a "last straw" argument to end all discussion ( no you personally).
I have barely dried my filament with my MK3s and i dont think, that suddently with the XL this should be mandatory...
Looking at the competition, nobody is talking about excessively drying the filament.
Are you still running the custom gcode or have you gone to the default with no additions?
Completely default without the custom gcode. Thanks!
I keep hoping you will find the magic solution. I have had great results, but I have only printed a single color or a layer swap. Trying to get my feet wet and understand how it works. I think Prusa will continue to make improvements to both the slicer and firmware, but they need to hurry.
Thanks so much! Glad you have yours running!
So can I have .4 nozzles on some and .6 on the others at the same time and use them this way ? Does the slicer allow this ?
Right now the slicer does not allow for this. But I did for a but have .4 on 3 nozzles and .6 on the other 2 as I was comparing 2 color prints. I hope that makes sense. I could print on the .4 or the .6. But not at the same time. Thanks!
Can you print from an active dryer box?
Probably. I guess I'll dry the filament first and see. Thanks!
I have found that when using the Input Shaper the temperature is elevated. 210 is about as low as I go when putting non-IS. I am surprised that increasing the retraction didn’t make more of a difference. Those prints are really not great. I hope you find a resolution soon.
Yeah, I did confirm that with Prusa Chat that I should keep the temp default especially with IS. It's frustrating that the .4 wasn't the trick. I'm going to try whatever Prusa Chat says and keep going back to them each time. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I think it is very important to keep after Prusa support. It allows them to keep track of the issues. Especially if there is a mechanical problem with your printer.
For those who don't know already: temps with input shaper enabled are raised because Print Speed is increased, which also increases Volumetric Flow, which decreases the amount of time the plastic spends heating up in the hot end. Increasing the temp ensures the filament is extruded at the correct temperature.
Btw, Bontech CHT nozzles fix this issue by splitting the filament into three smaller diameter flows when entering the nozzle, which means the plastic needs less time to come up to the proper temp
you should do a few other benchmarks! Pins and temp towers. Benchys don’t diagnose problems.
True. Thank you!
It's definitely frustrating stuff when something you've paid an enormous amount of money for constantly bugs you with niggling problems. It can seem defeating sometimes but occasionally you do find the solution/s to these problems and overcome the hurdles that can make a mediocre machine great!
Recently I decided to upgrade a few of my MK3S+ machines up to the MK3.9 upgrade and I can tell you with years of 3D printing experience, mainly with Prusa's, that If I had to do it over again I would have stayed away from the MK3.9/MK4 iteration. I've had nothing but headaches and niggling problems with these two "so called upgrades". I don't know if I was just unlucky or Prusa's QC has gone down the proverbial but out of the two "upgrades" I had a print fan that was DOA, Y axis pulley bearing that had a collapsed bearing(out of the box), a hotend heatsink/loadcell that was DOA(out of the box) and two LoveBoard that were suspect that I was instructed by Prusa support to change out because both machines were printing the first layer too close to the bed.
Live and learn I guess.
I've gone from two extremely reliable workhorses working around the clock for years without so much as a peep out of either of them to two machines I now don't trust and constantly have to babysit because they have eroded my confidence in them.
Needless to say, my other machines will not be getting the "so called upgrade"
I've got say though, even though I seem to have been unlucky with these two printers at least Prusa's support team are still A1. I can only imagine the hair pulling and frustrations of dealing with a Chinese manufacturer going through the same problems, sheesh!!!!!!
I can't imagine dealing with all of those different parts having issues! And I do relate to upgrading and feeling less reliable. I didn't take apart my machines. But I had 2 Mk3s and 4 Minis. For whatever reason I decided the MK4 would be better than all of them and I am having a lot of quirky things with firmware etc that are just irritating. Add in having two workers trying to help out the print farm that don't know how to work through some of these quirky things, and I have machines sitting idle WAY too much.
Makes me wonder why I changed anything. So annoying!
Hey, I hate to ask, but I just got my notice that my printer is up for building so I'm really trying to figure out if I want to get it or not. Have you tried printing temp towers to see where stringing looks best?
Also, more importantly, have you tried drying your filament? I live in Minnesota, and the humid summers are TERRIBLE, even on PLA. Even though my printer is in an air conditioned room, I still have to dry my filament every time before I print, or it is all stringy just like your prints. Is it possible that your filament is just wet, that it is suffering from such stringing? I've heard even some brand new rolls from China can come too wet and need drying.
I really appreciate you doing these videos. This is far more informative stuff than a thousand fluff piece reviews.
I just got my “complete your order” email, too, and I’m trying to decide if I should actually pay the $3300+shipping+duty or get a Bambulab printer + AMS instead.
@realtrisk I did run a temp tower with my .6 nozzle and found it did the best at 190. I was able to get some decent prints with that but had some issues with underextrusion. And everyone told me 190 was way too cold.
I haven't dried the filament because it works fine on my single toolhead XL. But I will try it.
I see so many pictures on Facebook that people are getting good prints. I see more good than bad lately. So it's so hard to say!
If you really want the size, I would lean towards trying it. And if it doesn't work for you and your prints, sell it. They're still so backordered that I doubt you'll have trouble selling it.
@joshcarter-com I ordered the Prusa XL 5TH because I wanted a large size and I wanted multiple colors. My Bambu AMS has been the easiest printer ever to setup and use. So much that I now have 4 Bambus and just bought my husband one.
My single TH XL doesn't have any stringing problems and can handle all of my large scale needs. I'm starting to wonder if am over the headache and want to sell the 5TH. But then I see beautiful pictures on Facebook and feel like I can try one more thing!
Honestly I'm changing my mind each day so it's so hard to say. But if you do get the XL and find it doesn't work for you, I'm sure it would be easy to sell.
@@tada3dprinting 190 isn't that cold - depends on the filament brand!
@@tada3dprinting Believe me, I know how 3D printing headaches and troubleshooting can suck. I had intermittent problems on my Prusa MK3S for over two years. Finally figured it out, about two weeks before getting the MK4 upgrade. So I feel your pain.
My preorder of the XL is at this point kind of hinging on your experiences. Any chance you could please try the filament drying thing? I'm asking because Robert Cowan solved his stringing with drying, and I'm really hoping that might be the issue...
Yeah, I do want large size and multicolor, which is why I want the XL. I don't like the enormous amount of waste that multicolor systems like Bambu's generate, plus the slow speeds resulting from the complicated filament change process.
Again, thanks for all the XL videos, they've been very informative.
Did you notice that during those 2 shown Benchy's without the towers/chimneys those where nocked off while being printed??
You didnt mentioned that in the video.
Also, i noticed that for smaller prints i always print those in the left front part of the build plate. I know.. this shouldn't be an issue but when i do it in the middle or back it goes badly. Larger prints are fine btw.
And last one, your filament is not too "wet"? Not sure how humid it is in your area but it can influence PLA quite a lot.
I know, you have quite some expierence with 3D printers and this one isn't giving you what you wanted or expected.
Fingers crossed it will be sorted soon. I have so far no big issues with it (still on 1 toolhead with 0.6mm nozzle).
I hadn't noticed the chimneys until I saw the comments. My single TH would print in the front left and I got used to that but this one auto aligns to the back. I'll try it. No I haven't dried my filaments but maybe it's time. Thank you!
@@tada3dprinting yes, I just noticed the chimneys as well on the video. It seems you have really wet filament, 0.6 is not so picky about it...
Stringing can be wet filament or a high-flow hotend issue with insufficient cooling. All high-flow hotends can suffer from it more or less in certain prints. I would start with PID tuning. But you probably did that already.
Thank you!
If the issue is extra globs of filament getting stuck to the nozzle, then your tests would be inconclusive... Later prints will be more likely to be problematic, regardless of setting changes because there is more time for filament to build up. And of course it will fall off at random, leaving black dots, etc. I'd love to get an XL... Kinda waiting for this issue to be solved before I go all in though. The whole point of going Prusa over Voron or Ratrig is not having to troubleshoot this kind of thing.
Yes cleaning the nozzle in between prints is important. I'm also waiting to order another until things are a little more tuned. Thanks!
That's very disappointing. I've just ordered two 0.4mm nozzles because I heard Prusa were now shipping the XL with 0.4mm by default, so thought that must be the best way to go.
Yeah I think it is a good choice. You will probably have better results than me. I've seen better than mine out there. Thank you!
Oh, and yeah the prime tower sliding off the bed (or into the model) drives me insane (almost like the layout tool doesn’t do a simple sanity check…)
I mean isn't that the point of aligning? Thanks!
in slicer you can see a tiny circle at the end of each layer. This circle is a retraction setting and makes these litte blobs on your print. In printer settings turn off the retract at layer change option. This may end in a bit more stringing but you shouldn't have these blobs anymore
OK thank you!
At aome point I was really excited for the XL,. But after seeing all the issues you and others are having with it, I'm glad I didn't get one. At this price and coming from Prusa, I would really hope the printer would perform better than this :/
I'm still working on it and seeing some improvements. I think there are just a lot of variables. It has so much potential that I can seem to give up on it yet. Thanks!
As a 5 tool XL owner I have been pretty happy and when things are working well the results are amazing but I can't fault your decision. The cost and the current challenges make it hard to justify. I am seeing steady improvements in firmware and slicer updates and I don't have the problems called out in this video so I can suggest keeping the XL in mind.
Stupid XL question: can you use more than one tool head to print the same color to reduce print time?
I've seen some multi-tool models make identical copies at the same time.
Only one print head can move at a time. And yes printing multiple of the same thing greatly reduces the time because it only has to change once per layer for 10 items etc. Thanks!
Something I noticed was that when changing filament settings you need to save them. Changing between extruders is like changing filaments where it forgets the modified settings of the previous extruder.
I also noticed that really high temperature on jessie pla default as well. Not sure what happened there, but it occured with the latest definition update.
Yes you're right. I do need to keep an eye on that. I had the issue with the layer height profiles. Hadn't thought about the filament. Thanks!
I think it’s the filament. Overture is garbage. I use either Prusament or Polymaker. My XL 5t has zero stringing, zero problems, and I’m currently using the 0.6 nozzle. I am using the newest firmware and I always choose the Prusament PLA profile. I don’t change any temperatures. It just works, so I’m very surprised yours isn’t.
Good to hear what is working for you. And also that .4 isn't the only way to get prints to look good. I don't mind trying prusament. Thanks!
The chimney was printed, you can see it in the video. A heating warning is displayed because the XL has been preheated for more than 30 minutes after printing. It has nothing to do with the chimney.
OK so I have more than one issue. Thank you
@@tada3dprinting No problem. I also encountered this warning after printing. That's because sometimes the XL holds the nozzle temperature even after printing. I guess it's because I set this temperature manually before printing and the XL remembers it
I'm deeply moved by this video! _ "Triumph arises from relentless dedication and steadfast commitment."
Or maybe I'm just going slightly mad. Haha. But thanks for the support!
So it looks like at 7:35 of the video the printer is printing the smoke stack and then it falls off.
Yeah it must get knocked when it changes colors. Thanks!
That x1c next to it is knocking the xl in the ground
There is a reason I have been buying more Bambu lately.
Suggest printing with one filament , to rule out the tool change causing an issue. Then compare the results using the same filament on a MK3. Same temps? Rule out the filament causing the issue. Etc…
I'll have to look back to see if I printed a single color benchy on this. But everything I've printed in a single color has had no problems with stringing. It's definitely something with the toolheads changing. And the filament prints fine on my single TH, and other printers. But maybe this one is just extra sensitive. Thanks so much!
I gave up and put it in the corner way to many problems with the XL for multi color printing just use your Bambu's
So frustrating when it seems you solve one, you get another issue. It's so promising and some people are loving theirs. Just hoping I can figure it out. And yes, the Bambus are printing away. Thanks!
If you watch the Timelapse, the chimney DID print, but looks like it fell off.
Thank you
Bubbly filament may mean you have moisture in your filament.
I will try drying it. Thanks!
Stringing has been a disaster for me on my MK4. I had to reduce the temp about 20 degrees to get somehow usable results, but they were still nor good. Some people have that problem, some not. I then changed the nozzle to the V6 Obsidian and all of my problems were gone instantly. So, maybe try out the V6 Obsidian Nozzle. It changed my printing life for good. No, I don't get any money for saying that. And Prusa support hasn't been helpful at all btw.
That's interesting. So you use the adapter? Yeah I feel like they gave me more specific answers this last time. But I still haven't solved it. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Exactly, I used the adapter. Hope this helps 🙏
You can try to dry your filament before and during printing multiple tool heads. It would be nice if Prusa includes the filament drying chamber with this price range.
This shouldnt have anything to do with the filament being wet, that's the first thing she tried. Multiple other youtubers also printed with the same filament on other printers and the stringing was only with the XL.
Yes I don't have issues with stringing on my single toolhead or any other machine. But I'm willing to try it. Thanks!
Please, just grab a premium Filament PLA role and test it out. Overture is not the way to go. My Prusa XL have now a print statistic with over 35 print days, and never had such bad results. Just perfect lines. Most I print with Prusament and Recycling Fabrik.
OK I will. Thank you!
I hope this gets worked out for you. Having 5 tool heads has so much potential.
It's getting better. Thank you!
Stringing is worse with wet filament. 45-50% is max for successeful print. Dry your filament and run tests again
Thank you!
Consider getting into the habit of making custom profiles for all the different filaments you use. I set one up each time I use a new material for the first time. The generic profiles Prusa include in the slicer will be adequate for a lot of basic printing jobs, but when when you start diving into multi-material prints the generic profiles will start to hold you back.
Run a bunch of calibration prints like temperature towers, retraction towers, overhang tests to get your temp, extrusion multiplier, volumetric flow rate and retraction dialed in. Run them again to confirm your results can be repeated, then when you think you have everything perfect run them again.
As for the chimney on the benchy at 5:05 and 7:35, the chimney is printing but it looks like the nozzle might have blasted it off. Z-offset could be a smidge too low. Nudging the extrusion multiplier down a little might help mitigate a collision with the nozzle tip by not having too much material in the way. Also if the cooling isn't maxed out, crank it up and see what happens, layer curling is a pain in the ass if you've got a print almost 90% done and it gets knocked.
Ok thanks so much!
Try a different brand of filament
Thank you
I am sad. I wish it would work for both you and Prusa.
Thank you! I see others happy and wonder what the difference is. Thanks!
The XL seems like it has too many imperfections for the sheer cost of the machine
You are right....and i have it....😢
It does seem that way, however I have a 5 tool head and it prints great. I think you just see a lot more negative videos online because they are people looking for help/answers. I am quite surprised however that we haven't seen a major community leader give their opinion yet. So it is odd. Smaller prints are definitely trickier on this machine.
@surfalex2000 seems to have more issues then the ender 5 I borrowed from my brother
My XL work great. I don't have any of her issues.
I know that others are happy with theirs. I don't know if there is some difference in machines or if it's the type of prints that I'm trying. And it could be that I am missing something.
I was glad that Prusa chat gave me more specific adjustments. And I contacted them again today. My process is going to be trying whatever they say and bug them again if it doesn't work.
Those who are claiming they had success should put out a video.
I see a lot of pictures on Facebook. And every time they list their settings, I try it. Maybe I need to run the exact same file and settings. Because most that I see are large prints. Thanks!
Use prusament and then you have no problem with stringing those wierd filaments always not look good. ;-)
Thank you
Reduce retractions to .6
Thanks!
The dual color benchy is pretty bad. Please check the gcode in the slicer, if it isn‘t doing weird stuff. I actually ended up taking the single color benchy and coloring it in the slicer. After printing that with my XL I was very happy with the results using 0.4 nozzles. I don‘t have stringing though. Also, I can second the recommendation to use brushes for cleaning the nozzle on every tool change. There is a model on Printables for that, I am using nylon Dremel brushes for that, don‘t want the brass brushes to wear out my nozzles. That certainly helps to minimize stringing as well.
I agree that the benchy looks terrible. I'll have to try that! Were you having stringing before you installed the brushes? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting With 0.4 nozzles the stringing was negligible, even without the brushes. But there was some contamination happening sometimes, when a blob of the wrong color came loose in the wrong moment. But the blobs I see in your video are too regular, I believe these come from the broken model. If I am right you should be able to see them in the gcode viewer.
Think you hit the exact problematic issue with these printers there are no two alike.
They're so large and must have a lot more variables than we thought. Thanks!
Solution
czcams.com/video/eZYngEnAgYs/video.html
Thank you!
@@tada3dprinting it is not a final solution!Just pointing out an assembly issue. The head should not move in the carriage
Super disappointing results. Last night, I printed a simple cubicle hanger and with input shaping on, one entire perimeter layer 25% through the job didn't print.
The g code looked fine as far as I could tell. Hopefully your bamboo equipment will fill the void while they work this out.
Yeah I can print some simple things for my minis on this XL. But none of them are ones I need the multicolor for. I'm really considering storing it for a while.
@@tada3dprinting working on the xl is definitely helping your channel grow but im not sure the XL is the right device for your Etsy store.
I would love to see a professional calibrate your printer and see what it's actually capable of. The hardware seems to be awesome, the software is a disaster.
@@tada3dprintingHey Tada. I wrote you that i made a test. You really really need to dry even pla! Try it out
I honestly can’t replicate that. Got a 2 toolhead machine and have no issues at all with stringing. Mine works perfectly fine 🤷🏼♂️. Even with 2 year old filament…
There must be some massive tolerance issue between machines..
I love the concept of this printer. But it's 9/10th baked with a 15/10th price. Return it.
I'm getting just enough good prints to make me want to keep trying things. Thanks
lol cheap filament, funny how that filament works on 99.9 percent of printers just not the lemon that is Prusa XL. It’s crazy so many people purchased this alpha printer, not even in beta! You guys are troubleshooting prusa issues like employees that don’t get paid. I canceled my reservations and went Bambu never looked back.
I have a couple of Bambu and have been very happy with them. But I really wanted the size and less waste of the XL. It's been very frustrating!
man these comments get really patronizing on this channel in particular for some reason :(
I don't mind suggestions as long as no one is rude. And it's very likely that I am doing some silly little thing wrong. I just wish I could figure it out already!
I hate seeing you suffer like this. Prusa should have done better for its customers who waited such a long time for their machines.
Thanks. That's why I went ahead and bugged them about this. And I bugged them again today when it didn't improve. Now I'm on to the next attempt. Thanks!
I returned my piece of garbage not worth the money
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you! What was your main complaint with it?
waste of money getting that printer to be honest. It's still in beta phase and rushed.
I have never had issues with another Prusa so I'm shocked at the trouble I am having. And now that I have Bambu, I have a lot less tolerance for "finetuning".
Your inexperience makes any printer you film with look like crap. ALL of your problems are user or slicer related but you make it seem that they are printer related.
I know others are not having the issues I am. And I have no problem admitting they could all be my fault. If you have a working 5TH XL, I would be happy to print the exact same file as you with the exact same filament, slicer, firmware etc to rule all of those things out. Feel free to email me. Thanks so much!
Wow, sounds like someone is a little jealous? This maker seems to have a lot more experience than many others especially since they seem to have lots of different printers going so probably a business and probably working it 40+ hours per week. You're saying ALL of the problems here are user-based huh? Have to argue on that since if they are using the default settings, that leaves little to be user-based.
Ramping lift appears to be broken. I saw nasty blobs and stringing with it. I switched that off and use a normal Z lift and wipe. On my Voron 2.4 that works MUCH better than any settings of ramping lift.
You see it not working on your XL or you feel like mine isn't working? Do you think that's the stringing issues?
@@tada3dprinting The problems I’m seeing in your video look very much like the problems I was chasing on my Voron just a couple days ago. I had enabled ramping lift and I noticed blobs and stringing. I tried various settings of maximum ramping lift and ramping slope angle, to no avail. Problems went away when I turned “use ramping lift” off. I now use 0.5mm lift height and wipe while retracting.
I know Prusa made the “ramping lift” specifically for the XL printer, but it really seems broken. The ramping lift drags filament outside the print, thus creating blobs and strings. A vertical lift during retract keeps filament in the same spot and the next layer can squish it back down.
I don’t have an XL yet-I’m watching your videos and other channels trying to decide-so I really appreciate you posting your experiences!
In PrusaSlicer 2.7.1 devs fixed an issue where the ramping lift move was happening even when retractions weren't triggered, which deposited oozed filament onto the layer below. So yeah this is fixed now. I personally love the ramping lift (even on my MK3s+) and use it exclusively now. Most prints now have ZERO stringing (even on petg).
My ramping lift settings are:
Max Z Lift = 0.4mm
Angle = 1°
I don't have my XL5T yet, but I wonder why Prusa recommends 1.5-2mm Z Lift. Seems like that gives any extra plastic room during the wipe to string.
I basically started my lift height at 0.1mm (which stopped strings) and raised it in 0.04mm increments until the nozzle stopped leaving drag marks on my top layers
Why 0.04mm increments?
MK3s' Z-axis lead screw + motors combo = Z-axis min resolution of 0.04mm 😉
@@slavkosky I tried PS 2.7.1 ramping lift, too. I still saw better results from using the old-style Z lift and wipe. It was better than 2.7.0 for sure, but it seemed to be using much more Z travel than necessary. I had it set at 1.5mm max lift; a ramp lift of 0.4, like you’re doing, would have been better. But by that point in the day I’d spent so many hours chasing the problem, I was perfectly happy to turn it off and not fuss with it any further.