Responding to the Robert Morris Scandal
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- čas přidán 23. 06. 2024
- Paul makes it clear that Christians are to address sin within their ranks. The team addresses Robert Morris sexual abuse of a twelve year old girl.
#RobertMorris #Church #Christian #Jesus #SexualAbuseAwareness #GatewayChurch - Zábava
It’s so hard because it happened to me when I was 14! A youth pastor who was 28! They blamed me….. I was so naive and he raped me for a year before I finally had the courage to tell my friend. Unfortunately I lost the love of my mother who thought I had wanted it….I DID NOT!!!! I have suffered my entire life… many councilors…. Depression, suicidal, drugs, drink… sex…..! I received no help and was told to keep it quiet or else… I was young and scared…. He got away! I do agree with this precious lady that staying strong in my faith, trusting Jesus thru the pain, memories that never go away….PTSD!! He saw what happened and He will get justice for me! I couldn’t have made it this far in my life without HIM! He has and never will leave me nor forsake me!
Stay strong in Him. My heart goes out for you. God be with you always
I am so sorry this happened to you! Jesus knows the truth and in the end will get justice for you. Stay strong! You are an inspiration to me, just by the testimony you gave here. I am sorry about your mother's reaction and it pained my heart to read that. The Lord knows the truth and I trust Him to provide justice for you. Sending you a hug. ❤
So sorry that this happened to you. Thank you for sharing. Your faith and perspective is inspiring.
Robert Morris told his wife that she came on to him. Debbie Morris later sent a message to the victim that she forgave her. This is so wrong!!!
I am so sorry you went through this! This is heartbreaking! So glad to hear the Lord has sustained you through your life. ❤
Everyone who didn’t protect her so the church could keep the money coming. The elders over the weekend talked about all the good the church did in other areas. Meanwhile, they let the victims carry that inner pain all of her life.
The elders make money by being associated with Morris.
The Elders need to be replaced.
I thought rape and murder had NO statute if limations on it
They should all step down and be punished.
As a therapist I am bound to report child sexual abuse. If it’s not reported by a therapist then they can go to jail.
Exactly, and supposedly he had multiple therapists after the abuse
"If it's not reported by a therapist then they can go to jail"? You mean, if it is reported by a therapist then they don't go to jail? I'm confused by your comment.
The reason this can happen is because in general the people in these large churches don't read their Bibles and therefore they don't know when they are hearing false doctrine. When he confessed to the congregation that he practiced predatory promiscuity as a teenager he did not mention ever going to those girls/women to ask their forgiveness for his using them. When he abused the trust of Cindy and her family he was a married man with a child at the age of 20! Was Debbie one of those girls? Did he force any of those girls to have an abortion? James Robertson felt a 20 year old man with a shady past was good material for a CHRIST centered ministry? Everyone needs a REALITY check!
James Robeson
He was literally being prideful that he had came clean and the predator was lying.
Before all this came out - we already rejected him as a false teacher.
Yes and for being a bully.
Tell us more
@@mrnice111 and a manipulator and a "guilter" of his congregants. He regularly told his congregation that if they didn't tithe they were stealing from God"! This man obviously became very wealthy from this.
Pastors have become bullies. This should not be.
When there is an allegation of sexual abuse there needs to be a legal requirement including penalties for not doing so to report it to the police. Period. This allowance to let elders handle criminal matters is the problem in addition to Morris’ actions. That isn’t the churches call once a possible crime is committed. And this was a crime.
I think there are plenty of laws requiring those in the know to report child abuse.
@@mrnice111 so then obviously those who don’t report this are committing crimes too.
We are witnessing the Church of Laodicea in practice today. This so-called pastor is a Jude 4 leader, unfortunately.
Exactly! And how many lukewarm Christians did he create with his prosperity teachings? Jesus spits them out of his mouth. The influence of false teachers is enormous.
He is still covering up his sin when you are covering up you aren't repenting of sin.
He is not forgiven of his sin.unconfessed sin that needs to be dealt with.should have his ordination papers taken from him
He is a multi-millionaire and she can't get any financial help from Gateway.
Who knew being a pastor was so lucrative?
The financial help should come from RM not Gateway. Gateway had not even been organized when the crimes occurred
@@IMOO1896 Gateway was directly involved in communications with her by email. Another pastor there, Tom Lane, emailed the victim and told her she was flirtatious. Sick. She should get reparations from both.
Sexual "misconduct" is such a vague and sanitized term...
'THIS IS HORRIFIC". "THIS HURTS GODS HEART". Agreed, WE AS BELIEVERS SHOULD BE THE LOUDEST TO CONDEMN THIS!
I'm so sorry Cindy. We stand with you, we believe you, we will pray for you.
The leadership protected him. I wouldn't be surprised if leadership is doing the same thing, just never got caught.
As I understand, nobody, ever would challenge him. He was held in very high esteem, and you never questioned him. Tom Lane is no longer there.
I like how you said he "used it as his testimony" ... His whole ministry was built on this 9:50
I think James Robinson is just as guilty because he failed to hold him accountable and just went along with whatevwr rm said. He failed to act as a leader
I like how you said people unwittingly follow a pastor over Jesus, I couldn't agree more. If I had to bet, I would bet a lot of the people who attend Gateway will blame the victim before blaming Robert Morris. There's a video of Robert giving this "testimony" as you said, and he actually says he "doesn't like to get into the details"....gee, I wonder why. Good discussion.
And those that will defend him, don't realize he has lured them into being lukewarm with his prosperity teachings. How do you defend abusing a child? I think there will be such a shock after the rapture when people who thought they were saved are still here along with their pastors. These ego maniacs put themselves on pedestals, but church goers bow down to them. It is a very dangerous situation. I would like to believe it is God who is exposing these men right before Jesus comes. He is merciful and wants all to come to salvation. The mega church format is dangerous.
Don’t be embarrassed for not knowing him. His circle includes the like of Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn.
“The Masters Voice Prophecy “ blog has also spoke about Hinn and Copeland. Birds of a feather flock together. 😢
These goofballs are the Bernie Madoff's of the church.
If that man had ever had the Holy Spirit, which he claims, then he would have been convicted of his sin. Instead, he lied about it, misrepresented it, and wore it as a badge of honor in his "testimony." All Cindy asked for was help with the counseling costs -- counseling that he was responsible for -- and when she asked for help to pay for the therapy bills, he threatened her with legal action. Then to pour salt on Cindy's wounds, this wolf's wife called Cindy and told her she forgave her.
Yes, Debbie Morris should be held accountable also. Can you only imagine, her contacting Cindy and saying she forgives her.
@@juliapearce4380 - she's as bad as her husband.
@@FriendOfChrist well, she's not as bad because she didn't sexually abuse a child, but she was likely also lied to by Robert. Robert was pretending that the child was "flirtatious", a "Jezebel", etc. He also concocted some story about how he wanted to stop but she was somehow convincing him or forcing him to continue sexually abusing her! Sick, just sick.
this makes me hurt so much. This is going to prob cause so many to get out of church.
Look to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, not men !
Great video!!!
Thank you for joining us!
OK, this is something that needs to be discussed but you need to get the details right. First off I’ll say this is absolutely horrific. I am in no way defending. I am not sure the current Gateway elders knew anything about this before this story was released. Again this happened before Gateway was started. The one elder who knows that has been mentioned in an article is retired now. One thing though they did know the age of the accuser when they released their statement to the employees over slack. I am not sure why they didn’t take Robert‘s statement to them about this as an admission. It’s pretty clear. We unfortunately went to Gateway for 4 to 5 years ending around 2020. The elders that really need to be gone after is the ones from Shady Grove starting with the head pastor Olen Griffing. He’s a former state trooper. Unbelievable he didn’t go to the police when the parents came to him back in ‘87.
Last I checked Olen is an apostle over gateway. Unless they terminated him since this broke. It is a Pauling the way this was handled back then. And you are right Olen was a state trooper.
His wife is just as messed up. She likely know the girl was 12.. as a mother and not to mention a Christian.. she should of not kept her mouth shut
I think it gets even worse because I believe he claims she flirted and seduced him. A 12 year old Think he did a sermon on the jezebel spirit too
Did he do a sermon on the jezebel spirit? Sick, just sick. These poor sexual abusers are just the victims (sarcasm of course).
Where were all the adults when all this was going on?? He was staying with them in her home...Where was everybody when all this took place????
They were all hypnotized by the man of God....
How about the church getting a paid for lawyer firm. To go with a limited scope of work. Only 4yrs and not the whole of his tenure. The board is circling the wagons.
Talking this out helps a lot of people. This was a crime. It’s heart braking. Pastor Morris made a grave error. However, according to the Bible, through sincere repentance, Jesus will forgive. As a married man, I was accused by a grown women (legal age) of an affair, it never happened, not even close to happening. I spoke with her husband immediately and informed him something was wrong with his wife. I informed my wife the same day that this was a lie. It turned out she did have an affair but not with me. I informed my Pastor the following Sunday. I’ve also had other women hit on me but I literally turn around and walk the other direction. I always inform my wife. Men, be careful, it’s wrong, we know it, stay clean, follow Gods ordinances. There are many jezebels lurking especially for successful attractive men. Don’t fall for it, think of the consequences. This is from a mans perspective .Rarely do people want to talk about the elephant in the room. Pastor Morris knew she was a child,it was wrong, it is a crime, and he lives with this until the end. Pray for everyone affected by this tragedy. The Church has to be cleaned up!
Good old church! Just keeps giving
Let’s not forget….Mrs. Morris knew. And, reportedly, she told the child that she forgave her for what she did. That is vile too. That squarely puts the blame of the abuse on the victim.
It seems that ‘There is therefore no condemnation’ leads religious leaders to believe that there should not be consequences. Those are two different things, completely.
In many circumstances (that I’ve heard of), there is so much support for the abuser. Gathering together and putting their arms around the abuser and applauding the courage they show when the story comes out….like they’re the victim. Sometime they even continue to be paid while they go for therapy. Meanwhile, the victims and their family end up getting booted out of the church.
I get that they don’t want anything bad to happen to the abuser, who may have even truly repented. But how can they turn their backs on the victims. Where is the concern for them and their future? Think about what they’ve been through, only to be turned against by their church and leaders. And wives are being excommunicated if they try to protect their own children.
It’s hypocritical, disingenuous and shameful for the church (as a collective) to ignore, deny or turn a blind eye to these occurrences and to paint other whole groups as pedophiles and abusers…when it’s basically okayed if it’s done by a member or leader of the church.
You can hear hell fire sermons on sexual behaviors of others. However, I’ve never heard a sermon that even hints that this behavior is wrong. Can somebody get tough, slam the podium, point a finger around the sanctuary and shout, ‘It is abhorrent and unacceptable. If you’re doing it you need to knock it off and try to make it right (whatever form that takes). And (in a softer tone) if you have been abused, we grieve for your pain and will have leaders available to try and help (whether there is someone in the church or a professional referral is needed).
Thank you for addressing this sensitive, but necessary discussion.
I think each time he brought up his “moral failure” (crime), he was enjoying the reliving of his crime.
But, wait a minute, he went through a lengthy "restoration process". What kind of restoration process? He has even led other fallen pastors through a restoration process. What a narcissist!
The issue is the curtains on the confessional. (Metaphor)
There is a perception that you can seek forgiveness but still keep your secrets and not lose your anonymity
I have heard Morris repeatedly lie and twist the word of God proving he properly hasn’t changed because he blamed the victim, how has he repented
Hopefully eyes and ears will be open to the Truth! This was not a "moral failure", it was rape of a child, let that sink in! Our society has no idea what this does to the victim! Let's think about the pain that Cindy has had to live with. "He blamed her" if she disclosed this crime! This is rampant throughout the church! He should never , ever be allowed near any pulpit, he has forfeited his right to preach! Pray for Cindy! ❤
James Robison was involved also.
So the elders knew that something happened which caused Morris to undergo counseling but they didn’t know the identity or age of Miss Clemishire ?? Did they just take his word for it ??
I don't believe them, do you?
This is so sad to me!
If God is still mad at Robert Morris then why did God grow morris church ???
Why would you think God grew that church? Satan can also promote people. Look at all those in Hollywood and the music industry.
Why didn’t the father turn this guy into the police? That’s what I can’t figure out.
because back then people didnt do anything
That’s the way I feel. Where was her daddy?
Daddy and Mommy failed her. As she became older she failed herself.
The Church Elders from Shady Grove convinced the family they would take care of it and he would enter a period of restoration.
Please don’t call him pastor. He is not worthy of that title.
There is a blog called “The Masters Voice Prophecy “ blog Celestial speaks. She is an end time prophet. She speaks on subjects like this. So many “ministers “ are doing this. Morris is not the only one. 😢 sad.
So what is the purpose of this podcast story? Just curious
You find it hard to believe that Morris never preached on first corinthians 5. I do not. It's a carismatic church. Having been in charismatic churches for 18 years at the beginning of the two thousands I'm can assure you charismatic churches do not like the epistles and especially Paul's epistles. This is an NAR word of faith style church. There is no expository preaching it is all narrative. Every charismatic church I was involved with since the early two thousands has had sexual issues with pastors and/or the worship team. See: Bethel, Hillsong. I am not saying there aren't issues in reformed churches. However the charismatic churches are famous for moral failures because They will not preach the Bible nor will they use the Bible for disciplinary purposes.
I concur with you as a formal Pentecostal. Thankfully the Lord led me away from these teachings.
They should have brought all this to light in 2005 and they could have arrested him,instead of waiting until now that in TEXAS and Oklahoma it’s to late.
They new.
"we all sin in thought, word and deed?" is that good theology? where is the biblical support for thoughts being sinful?
Well then, read the breakthrough masterpiece novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Do bloggers discuss the NLP techniques used by pastors to entrain, mesmerize and stage-hypnotize students, employees and congregants? No. Bloggers do not discuss. Could bloggers discuss NLP techniques used by pastors? Yes. How could bloggers learn? Read the novel! It is a fun read, but quite ameliorating.
NLP?
@@IMOO1896 Neuro-Linguistic Programming... an ancient form of controlling others without their consent. Consider reading this special novel... "Everyman Norman Starmaster hasn’t yet come-of-age as a fully realized human. A book antagonizes him, “Think Like an Advanced Christian.” He embarks on a quest, backed by prayerful encounters with Jesus, that prove him wrong about big picture truths. His wild adventure succeed, because he dares question the mature things ascended humans can do."
Yes they should have a meeting with the other person involved with the pastor so they can both be counseled amd restored. If that was a standard they woulsve known it was a child. The only reason he confessed was because he was afraid of being exposed
Oh, really?? You think at this point It’s a he said she said?? Jeez. He’s already admitted it.
I believe the elder board and/or pastor at Shady Grove met with the father of the 12 yr old. They knew. Father is to blame as well.
How many more are there in his life
They had different elders at the time this happened
Dont forget about Mike Bickle from IHop who did the same to children
Who is Robert Morris?
He is a mega church charismatic pastor in Texas.
In 2nd Corin..they restored the man.
These guys don’t know how to interview much less know all the facts.
What I would like to know where was her dad she was a baby didn't he see what it to her
This isn't really the worst example of this to me. I think the outrage and righteousness about Morris is a postive thing. I'm glad that this is finally getting the attention it deserves. But what about the victims of Donald Trump? He's now a convicted rapist but why are evangelical christians still supporting a rapist? One of the 20+ other alleged victims who've come forward to allege that Trump abused them is someone named Katie Johnson who said she was 13 years old in 1998 when she went to what she had been invited to as a NYE party . . . at the brownstone apartment in NYC belonging to one Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein threw this "event" for Trump to specifically traffic an underage girl to his buddy Trump. She was unfortunately the unwitting victim. But where is the outrage around this? Trump should also be condemned for his crime whether he is the anti-abortion candidate foisted on Republicans or not. He should be held accountable too.
Do the two women talk?
Hi there! This is Daria (one of the two women in the video). Myself and Lauren do contribute to the show. It's a collaborative team with no script, so we contribute as we feel we have something to contribute. Brian, the host, facilitates the discussions and makes sure all voices are heard.
@@morningswithbrian I could tell that you both were in shock 😮 so that is probably why the silence for a while. ❤️
Very little
Please take this man off you tube .morris .
At 16, C’mon she still meeting with him. She enjoying herself with a married man
Shame on you for saying that. She was a minor and had been sexually abused for 4 years. You need to look up the psychological effect that has on a sexually abused minor.
Victim blaming - especially a child is very low.
😂
Why is she coming out now after 30 years? He did go for counselling for his sexual behaviour.
She's been telling her story for years, as did her father, but no one ever did the right thing by reporting it to the police. This is not her fault. Thankfully, the Wartburg Watch was able to get the message across.
He went to counseling for one month.
You who are without sin cast the first stone.
Robert Moore repented and confessed his sin and God has forgiven him but not people!
Check your own life first before throwing stones at others.
We're feeling for the victim who suffered this shame since she was a child. Yes, there's forgiveness for Robert but there's also compassion and understanding for his victim.
Ministers are held to a higher standard. Sounds like you don’t read the Bible. Titus 3 speaks on this. What you are saying is a typical statement. So ministers can do whatever they want and we the people just put up with it. Oh pastor we love you pastor. You can sin all you want pastor. Whatever you do it’s okay pastor. We will follow you down whatever path you are on. You can live in your flesh pastor it’s just fine. We put up with any and everything pastor. We love you pastor. If pastor goes to hades we will too pastor. We love you pastor.
No I think thats not true if he really repented he wouldn't try to control or cover up what the truth is he chose to run away and left a mess for someone else to clean up that is not what the head pastor does. He should feel accountable to all the people who attend this church.
@@FixedinHim the church is woefully ignorant and put pastors on a pedestal and rely on them for their relationship with Jesus...they don't know their bible
This is NOT about repentance.
This deals with a crime and pedophilia.
That changed the trajectory of this case.
It was a crime
LE was not notified
The child victim has not been helped and supported by the church, the overseer.
The truth was not spoken publicly
So there iS much MUCH deception therefore IT IS NOT resolved.
The congregation was deceived.
Sir, you don't know God's WORD on the corruption of children. You are wrong on your statements here. You have generalized a sinful CRIME to a child that went in for four years, and brought other men of God to filter truth for self preservation.
You are assuming she was 12 because she said it.
Seriously?? The victim is Not lying! Good grief 🙄 you're idol has fallen Period!! She was 12! He's a Pedophile!
No just do the math
Awwwww did your idol fall down and go 💥 BOOM 💥 How dare you accuse the victim who proves her story BTW! You need to Repent!
I'm sure her parents could corroborate her age.
@@TheCoaster78 are they still alive?
There needs to be a higher level of spiritual discernment to discuss this and that is not in this podcast. Morris repented (albeit after caught) but it does not matter in God's eyes (not these that throw the first stone) how repentance happens. The child was complicit in the actions as she said not to intercourse in the car YET she still went to teh car when NO ONE was forcing her. If she can say no to intercourse and any intelligent person in their teens can, then she was complicit as well. The father sasid no press charges to protect his child's iniquity. Morris and the child committed iniquity. MOSES was used by God and he commited a crime as well of murder. The church has a lesson to learn in this: you are NOT GOD and the VERY MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST IS YOU CAN CAN CAN CAN CAN BE RESTORED OF ANYTHING: ESPECIALLY MORAL FAILURE. The lady is bitter because she has NOT confessed to her part in this and instead is playing the victim for all these years. She cannot continually blame the perpitrator if she too had a part. Confess to get the demons off and the lady will not be bitter. This entire situation is sad..but GOD DOES RESTORE. The reason Morris did not tell the world or elders is because the elders at the time was aware Morris told his wfe and the father did not want to expose his child's moral failure as well although Morris suggested it at first. Also, humans many of them are not able to be pastored by a person who repented. This is an examply of WHO AND HOW GOD RESTORES TO EVEN BE IN THE PULPIT and all of the details however haineous of the past does not need to be revealed to the men and laidies on this panel that are not able to have the heart like God in this matter.
I don't believe that you understand that if he really repented he wouldn't try to control or cover up what the truth is God will forgive all people that repent of sin.but he knows your heart . Doesn't sound like he repented when you run from the truth and your accountability to the people in your church and the victims.
I don't agree that she willingly participated, knowing, personally, about how hard it is to escape abuse. He had groomed her and told her not to tell anyone. She was 12 years old, not an adult and adults struggle to stop an abusive relationship for many reasons. Please don't blame the victim of a heinous crime. Even if you go to the extreme of suggesting that she did this for her own enjoyment, he was the one who introduced her to sex at the age of 12. He committed a crime and her response to it is not the issue, anyway. As for her father's response, we need to remember that this was 40 years ago, when there was very different treatment of sexual abuse.
this makes me hurt so much. This is going to prob cause so many to get out of church.