Can the FA Cup save Erik ten Hag?
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Manchester United beat Liverpool 4-3 in a dramatic FA Cup quarter final. Erik ten Hag has been under scrutiny since Sir Jim Ratcliffe took sporting control at Old Trafford.
But, will a fourth visit to Wembley inside two seasons be enough to convince the hierarchy Ten Hag is worth keeping beyond the summer?
The Athletic's David Ornstein and Mark Critchley join Ayo Akinwolere to discuss.
The story of Amad Diallo - and the man accused of trafficking him to Europe - The Athletic
00:00 Intro
00:20 Manchester United vs Liverpool in the FA Cup
02:16 Comparing Liverpool with Man Utd
03:24 Amad Diallo at Man United
06:40 What has been missing from Man United?
09:48 How does Diallo’s goal compare to the past?
11:54 Si Hughes on Amad Diallo
13:28 Where will Man United be at the end of the season?
112:17 - Ten Hag's future
21:54 What is Man United’s vision?
25:05 What do INEOS need to change?
30:34 Are Man United too settled?
34:34 Erik ten Hag on youngsters
38:28 - United's financial commitments
39:39 - Final Comments
39:59 - Outro
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#manutd #liverpool #facup - Sport
Hang on one moment, I can't let this whole "Klopp and Arteta turned things around quite quickly at Liverpool and Arsenal" statement just slide under the radar. That's just simply not true.
Under Klopp,in his first three seasons Liverpool finished 8th, 4th, and 4th again. He didn't win anything for the first 3 years of his time at the club.
Under Arteta, in his first three seasons Arsenal finished 8th, 8th, and 5th, and won 1 domestic trophy. I remember fans and the media talking relentlessly about how Arteta's football wasn't working, that he should be replaced, that his signings weren't working.
So let's not pretend that these managers came in and transformed their clubs overnight - it just isn't the case. And these same pundits who are talking now about what geniuses Klopp and Arteta are seem to be forgetting that they only got to their current position of success by giving them the time to build things the way they want. Ten Hag is being held to a completely different standard, which is unfair.
100% facts
United are held to different standards in every aspect, has been the case since we started winning things in the 90s.
I think you're neglecting a whole lot there, Klopp got to 2 cup finals in the first season with a v poor team who were 10th and with -12 g/d before he got there, Arteta won the FA cup at the end of his first ever season in management. The difference is both clubs from the start could see a clear vision that would take time to build, but was obvious. You can argue that they didn't transform them overnight, but with Klopp their first game with him was transformative tactically and they've stayed the same ever since. Arteta may have been an assistant to Pep, but didn't have the 10 years experience that Ten Hag did before joining MUFC.
He's had 18 months to show some belief, the difference is these other managers competed and won against other big-6 teams and wouldn't get regular bi-monthly humblings by their biggest rivals after beating minnows by a goal-0.
@@roryhungrrr You're right that there's definitely some context to both the Liverpool and Arsenal situations, but in a way that's sort-of my point. In hindsight, it looks like wisdom to give both Arteta and Klopp the time to transform their teams to the point where they're challenging for titles. And I'm not trying to downplay the work they've done, which has been impressive.
But it's not like Man United haven't had contextual challenges too. We're always hearing how well Liverpool are run, for example, how forward-thinking their leadership is, how influential people like Michael Edwards was in the sensible, sustainable investment in the team. That certainly hasn't been the case at United, who have been held up as the perfect example of how badly a football club can be run for over a decade. No manager who's joined United over that period - including people like Mourinho and Van Gaal who between them have won titles and trophies at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Ajax and Chelsea - has lasted more than 3 years. That cannot be a coincidence. There's obviously something fundamental broken at United that even the most experienced managers in the world haven't been able to fix, so to win *anything* in that context, credit has got to be given to the manager.
And in Ten Hag's first season, he did produce the goods - he got United into the Champions League and got to 2 cup finals, winning one of them and losing the other to the treble-winning City team. This season United have played badly, there's no getting around that. But even in this apparently awful season with long term injuries to key players, United are still higher in the league than Arteta was in his second season (8th), and could conceivably get Champions League football and a cup final *again*. You only have to look at Chelsea to see how badly things might have gone.
I guess my point is, Liverpool and Arsenal right now are playing excellent football. But they didn't start like this - it took several seasons of transformation on and off the pitch to get to this point, high and low moments included. It was wise for them to stick with their manager even though they weren't immediately transformed into title contenders, and it'd be the first wise thing United have done in a long time if they realise that replacing Ten Hag won't immediately make them title contenders either.
My God there is some sense being exchanged here.
Surely Ten Hag has learned so much in the last 18 months it would be crazy to let him go. He’s building a new squad, slowly, but with the help of top class directors he can continue the improvement.
haha he's learned nothing. We are dogshit. There's still no system or style of play. Why are you idiots so convinced that he'll suddenly become a competent coach. He's tragically out of his depth and it's says everything about our fanbase that many of you still don't understand how to watch football and what to look out for. It's awful, unstructured, chaotic rubbish. Scumming a win over a knackered Liverpool side will do nothing to change the fact that this fraud in the dugout should have been gone months ago
How about inviting the guests from the last pod and serving out some humble pie 😂😂
precisely! They did not even address that the entire team thought united had no choice on their last episode
LOL! They got one decent result all season. Do you not remember the UCL?
You completely missed the point. Even when Liverpool were in their 30 year slump, any logical person would still give them a good chance going into this fixture. To act like its a foregone conclusion sounded stupid to me and its proved to be the case ✌🏾
I think Man Utd should stick with Ten Haag regardless of what happens in the FA Cup. Chopping and changing managers every 3 years will not do them any good. The new manager will get them a good first year with low expectations, followed by another decent year and then the implosion in the following year which will start the cycle all over again.
Plus with the amount of change happening above him, we need some stability somewhere.
Spot on. Fact that many players are looking better than when he started (Garnacho, Dalot, etc), and that arguably Anthony is the only bad signing (although I was expecting they'd get another year at last years level from Casemiro & Eriksen so accept criticism there - although club shares blame there). Malacia was unfortunate with the timing of his injury - no doubt he'd have done a job at left back, Onana has bedded in after a rocky start, same with Hojlund and Martinez will be first choice once he's back.
There's a young spine developing there. He needs another season to see where he can take it
@@Stegibbon Agreed. And with competent people taking care of the other things, Ten Haag might find his job a lot easier.
@@ronanfitzpatrick1261 I think such misfires will become rare once the new guys start making decisions.
But now with a proper structure above whoever the manager is from next season, how can you predict that the same type of implosion that has habitually happened under the Glazer's structure will happen this time?? It's actually much more likely that a new manager that is properly hand-picked by Ashworth and Omar won't implode and will actually succeed
They let Arteta play horrible football for 3 seasons and look what happened. Stop questioning 10 Haag because there are hundreds of factors playing against him
Ten Hag should be manager for minimum 2 years more
You must be a rival fan
@@TNT_12 not at all
You need to give him time and he's the right man
Problem is the players
@@TNT_12 so true only rival want tenhag stay...this club become a joke under tenhag!
@@convey1997 really problem is the player? so why united win vs liverpool? that tenhag genius? u must be kidding!
@@Trulyontube you cannot judge by one game look at the whole season and not all players are a problem but few players who have been around for few years and do not care. And the whole club structure needs to change like scouting and buying the right players the manager cannot do everything but I think Ten Hag is the right man
The media clearly has an agenda against Erik ten Hag. Why aren't they not giving him time to build that was given to Arteta at Arsenal and Klopp at Liverpool. The man needs time considering that the team has had many big absentees through injury
Not just ten hag, Man Utd as a whole. United have always gotten more scrutiny and attention and have been held to higher standards
Why do none of them mention injuries, Man United had so many injuries. Barely played our actual defense
Every team has injuries. We're not special. Other teams even have less talented players than this United team has, and they perform more consistently than we do. Why? Because their managers actually know how to get the best out of their players
@@TNT_12 Arteta took two seasons of finishing 9th to "know" how to get the best out of their generational talents. United have almost none to begin with, not to mention some sabotages like Sancho.
@@brunokagawa6287Arteta was coming from a much lower base.
@@adtastic1533 Not really. Arsenal has often finished above United in the Premier League table over the past ten years. Up until Arteta's reign when they finished 8th for two consecutive years. Also United have been on a clear downward trajectory since SAF's retirement. Those are facts.
They're not mentioning injuries yet it's because of injuries that Liverpool performanced poorly last season
Poor journalism from the Athletic. Ask United fans, most of them understand what a difficult job ETH is doing at the moment.
because most of the United fans are thick as shit. The athletic is marketed at the smarter fan, so publishing the dimwitted views of "most United fans" would be the opposite of what the Athletic is trying to achieve
but thats not there agenda...
Manager has only been able to play his preferred side 3x and we’re 6 points away from champions league.
1 time - Forest in the cup. That's the only time we've had Dalot, Shaw, Varane, and Martinez.
yeah but that doesnt fit there agenda mate🤣
How long has Klopp been at Liverpool compared to how long ETH has been at Manchester United.
- 61% wins in all comps since getting the job
- KO Villa, Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton and Barcelon in cup comps
- nailed on for his third final in two seasons.
- within touching distance of UCL places despite rolling season-long injury crisis.
you are delusional
I don’t understand the premise of this conversation. There seems to be no basis for getting rid of the manager, and in terms of a business decision, it would be incredibly stupid. Klopp & Arteta needed more time, so why not give Erik the same respect?
because he's an appallingly bad manager, that's why
If United had their full strength team for the last two years, and they were playing with the inconsistency of recent times, yes, Ten Hag should go. But he bought players to play a certain way and has been without many of them for a long time. He's done alright. It's a broken club, it'll all take time.
ten Hag STILL has to use players that got Ralf, Ole and Jose the sack.
It's a shame how The Athletic is also useing click-baitish titles like 'Can the FA Cup save Ten Hag?'. Suggesting that he deserves to be fired. Every day find a new reason to mute Sky, TalkSports, ESPN, and other crap media houses. But I expect better from The Athletic.
Should watch at least the first 30 seconds of their Utd-Pool FA cup preview. All four pundits (including the formerly excellent ones from TIFO) were absolutely convinced Ten Hag was clueless, Klopp would pull out another 7-0 and do a jig on Ten Hag’s grave… Athletic has not just gotten clickbaity, they’ve got some fundamental flaws in their analysis as well…
it isn't clickbait. He deserves the sack and thankfully will be gone at the end of the season. Awful, awful manager
@@WOOOPdoctorFROGhere Maybe but I am not entirely convinced that he sucks as a manager and coach. I'm ok to give him another season, but better transfer decision-making is definitely needed.
@@davidgriffith1552 I'd disagree with the statement that Ten Hag is clueless. The worst thing that I see on the pitch is not the tactics (they sometimes work and sometimes don't), but mistakes and poor decision-making. The midfield and front line keeps giving the ball away. The coaching staff can do exercises for that, I guess, but can they really turn a Rashford/ Bruno into Bernardo Silva who can keep the ball ?
I love listening to the athletic podcast. Keep on doing a great job guys
United played
Garnacho 19
Mainoo 18
Hojlund 21
Anthony 22
Amad 21
Dalot 24
Also add to that rashford mctomminay garnacho and mainoo are from the academy.
Yet liverpool get the kids hype from the last 20 minutes in the 1 game.
David's probably talking about Nick Miller's update on The Athletic when speak of lack a a vision from ETH .. we played our best game and showed what we we could be under ETH. Do note this is one game and we have many to go.. But perform like this for the next 8 weeks and we very well could be FA cup champions and end up 5th
This was an awesome objective pod 💯
Where would Liverpool and Arsenal be today if the media (and their owners) had been all over their managers in their second seasons? Klopp and Arteta had nothing but support from the media with far worse results in their first couple of years. The FANS weren’t too pleased, but I don’t remember the microscopic focus from the media on the inevitability of their sackings…
Arteta was getting a lot of criticism. Especially over the suicidal nature of how they were playing out from the back.
@@aidanmagill6769 could well be recency bias on my part. Do you think it was comparable to the criticism that Ten Hag gets, or do you agree Ten Hag is being held to a higher and unrealistic standard? I do remember a lot of “well Arteta clearly doesn’t have his team playing like Pep’s team, but not for lack of trying” kind of commentary.
Best quote and enlightening quote of the day: if Erik Ten Hag is on the market, United will be looking at getting him.
Let's have those two pompous mugs Tim Spiers and Jon Mackenzie back on to face the Stone Roses music. Ten Hag has a better record after less than two seasons than both Klopp and Arteta, and his win rate is superior to Guardiola's. Were you guys at The Athletic Arteta/Klopp/Guardiola out after a season and all the way through their respective second seasons. PS :- United had many occasions to blow Liverpool away during the first half of that game on Sunday. It could have been 3 or 4 nil going into half time instead of 1-2. The media, like yourselves, tend to make it into a one way street in favor of Liverpool. Without the clickbait driven media and social media, the United job is no more difficult than at any other club.
Just want to say Ayo is the best host! Love his presenting. Great ep as usual.
loved David's... Simon quote hahaha courage of convictions aye
Great channel … you don’t need the talksport headline for the edit
Sacking Ten hag would be the worst decision Manchester United can make even if we don’t make it to the final or top four.
If this club has any real plans for long term success they should stick with this manager and I can confidently say; Ten hag will take this club to the top of English and European football!
haha you are clueless. Try a different sport, you clearly don't understand football
@@WOOOPdoctorFROGhere lmao you don’t understand football. Check you replying to all the comments you freak.
Sack the manager sack the manager! You don’t know anything about what success takes
The future is bright, the future is Erik
I think Mark is correct in his assesment of Diallo Ahmed. It wasn't just that final moment. He showed not only great skill and workrate. Is Marcus Rashford the one who needs to think about the danger to his position? David talks of Diallo's entry as Macheda like. Good point. But also Antony's goal actually reminded me of Macheda's against Aston Villa.k
I am a staunch ten Hag IN guy. Lemme get this straight: Klopp and Arteta are allowed to finish outside top 4 twice but are still given time to implement their vision but Erik finishes 3rd with 2 finals in his debut season yet it's time to go? I can take the ten Hag out rhetoric from the media, not from our waterhead fans who think the way to catch up to Arsenal, Liverpool and City is to have the same conversation every 18 months. We honestly have the worst fanbase. ten Hag will do wonder under Ratcliffe's new structure and time to further trim the squad. His debut season has to count for something
He's had 18mts now?, well, two of the windows in those 18mts have been zero spend, or loan only, windows
he's been stopped from spending anything, or bringing in anyone in the last window, even though we have 1 striker
who's having injuries too, and need to kick on after Jan, to climb the league, which he did, without his full squad
and Licha makes everyone play better, and harder. thank you David, the voice of reason
we know ETH works well under a rigid structure as a Head Coach, as that's how he built his sides at Ajax!
Overmars, and Van Der Sar, were the two man above Eric, finding the players, making the deals, travelling the World
Amad reminds me of abubakar scoring against Brazil and was sent off
Achieving the SF slot for this season is already overachieving.
📌 pin point accuracy for the Amad goal lads!! 🎯 baby faced assassin!!
Please!! Not another change of Manager..... especially Southgate. Ten Hag deserves another season with the new structure etc,regardless of what happens this season. Injuries, Sancho and Greenwood issues haven't helped.
Ten Hag is a superior manager to Gareth Southgate and only someone who was trying to make a political statement would be looking at bringing in the English manager over Erik. NO manager will succeed if they only get 18 months and they HAVE to keep certain players because of their profile. We've had over 50 injuries this season. I am not backing INEOS if they get rid of Ten Hag. I'm angry at them for even considering it as it shows they are all about perceptions and don't watch the team play.
We must give Ten Hag time.
Ten Hag won't leave or stay because of results. INEOS are only interested in one thing: does he fit the bill. And even if they decide to let him go, he won't leave before the season ends. That would be madness.
Definitely want Erik Ten Hag to continue as our manager. But as per reports he has to soften his so much involvement in transfers that has been put into his contract. No Southgate plz🙏🙏😤😤
It's insane how Manchester United creates fodder and news for everybody. If Liverpool won, this game, they would still talk about Manchester loss because this viva team sells in all aspects in good and bad. Let is be known Erik will be here next season. #GGMU
Id love for the narrative to be Mark Robins: the man who saved Sir Alex; the man who got Ten Hag sacked
I've already heard that 'narrative' about a 100 time already, sure to hear it a thousand more times
Pathetic.
@@jgmediting7770 no, you
I would rather stick with Erik, Nagelsmann is overhyped, Tüchel isn't worth the stress and both have only won in the League with the best team in so called Leagues. Tüchel won CL ok,but he is more a Liverpool manager as a United one.
I think nothing will save ETH if Ineos want someone else in his position then he is gone its just what INEOS and Sir Jim want. I back ETH but be practical in the end the decision is down to them.
Shameful framing. ETH is going nowhere.
If ? He wins the fa cup . Thats 2 trophies in 2 seasons youd have to think hes got something
Samuel Luckhurst in the mud! He can't hit send on his drafts calling for ten Hag's head whilst the international break is going on.
Got enough ads on here lads? Christ.
Just because they write about football doesn't mean they know a whole lot about it,
There is no indication that ten hags job is in danger, only when outlets like this talk about it, talk about poch, Howe, nope of course not, and to ask weather ten hag can' work with a structure??
What the fuck was overmars and van Der sar at Ajax doing?? Jesus Christ, absolutely bollox
He had injuries that’s why Anthony had to play left back.
I am undecided about ten Hag but Ineos seems to be going at this with a plan and for once, I would be comfortable with leaving them to make the decision
Not when they appoint southgate.....
That would be ineos out..!!!
I think it is Ayo - who is too close to his microphone - we keep getting large exhalations of breath over the speakers - very irritating!!
11 defeats and still 10 games left... Enough said 👎
Ah. International week, no other news. It’s not even in question whether he stays or not. When you know but that doesn’t sell.
The FA cup win means nothing at all, it was a typical mad FA cup game, United won, but not because of tactics or planning, Bruno and Antony were playing in defence near the end of the game, so no praise goes to ETH, what exactly did he do, he did all he could do, brought on subs, but subs you would normally not expect to make any difference, Maguire might cause a problem if we get a corner or free kick, but he also causes us problems in defence, Erikson offers very little now, his passing is decent, but that is it, Antony runs and Amad, well for United we have not seen what he does, ETH can only be saved by stupid management above and by himself making far better decisions and maybe, just maybe, coaching the players.
He doesn't need saving. Next question.
He's a great coach but the thing is the players are crap not upto the standards that his style requires.
...but Garnacho was offside. What a stupid thing to say. Yes, if reality had been different, it might've been better for Man U. Searing analysis, lol
Are we just going to ignore that Mark Critchley looks like De Bruyne?
I don’t care… but it was great to see United beat the RedShite!
😂💙😂💙😂💙😂
Seems writers can't wait to go in on ETH and get him sacked even the ones who call themselves fans of the club. His had terrible injuries this season and any honest person who knows football has to admit City, Liverpool and Arsenal and way ahead on and off the field so can't be expected to finish above them. Last season he overachieved getting 3rd and 2 cup finals was more than anyone could have hoped for at the start of the season. His back at wembley, injuries an amazing Villa and Spurs explain the league position so the only stick to beat him with is europe and that could be put down to the keeper settling in. The manager deserves the 3rd year and to even suggest he doesn't to me shows as agenda by the media. Talking about an short up turn when replacing the manager getting the club back into the CL means nothing as we have been nowhere near winning the big trophies. Allow ETH time to at least finish his squad and if he fails you remove him and he has no excuses.
United will run like a Ferrari next season with Ten Hag at the helm but long term is him becoming a Legend at Bayern
answering the question @9:00 he went directly to the tunnel to break his fast. Ramadan month.
no it's because he got a red card. You have to leave the field and can't sit in the dugout. It wasn't dark when he got his red card so it's unlikely it was time for his iftar (to break his fast)
I think Amad was saying goodbye. He wants to play regularly and he currently can't at United with the way Garnacho and Rashford are solidifying their positions on the wide areas.
I think you're right but I hope not.
I'd hope Utd would play enough games next season that the 3 of them could rotate.
At 11:40..why's Mark talking like he's not privy to the conditions set for Ten Hag. You're about as clueless as everyone else when it comes to what's going on with manager and ownership. Whole lot of waffling going on
LOL! United fans. I never seen a fambase get so gassed up about a single win against an injury ravaged side thats losing steam fast in a title run in. Go on. Give Ten Hag an extension. Id love it.
Poch doing terrible, Howe turned into a flop, de zerbi has some heavy losses. Where is the agenda against all these managers. Man U generate clicks
Where tf is JJ Bull? Guys, more passióne! This is flat 😄❤
Can FA cup save Erik ten hag, if can it's only temporary, with his slyle of play won't last long. He have No plan B.
Not gonna win it anyway
If you think changing the manager will sort the clubs problems you are masively delusional
Wasmt that long go Man u were too big for the FA Cup , how times change eh?
The fa and government literally pressured United to pull out of tbe fa cup. Nobody at United wanted to.
I hope not sack him
So so much bollox is talked in this podcast. I’m becoming more and more convinced these journos are in the pocket of some clubs. This was an utterly empty podcast. Nothing stated here was of value, new, not obvious. The host also kept humming and moaning ffs throughout the interviews. The Athletic pride themselves on its journalists, while they talk around actual info and ‘inside’ news. This reminds me why I ended my Athletic subscription
Wether he wins it or not he is going nowhere stop creating this bad stories like united have done really bad worser than Liverpool last season. They had alot of injuries again
First of all, Ten Hag never been in danger...and that's all. He's here for LONG TERM.
They obviously did not watch the game, we were all over them for 80 minutes, keep ten haag for life please
THE ATHLETIC FLIP FLOPPING AS USUAL.
If ETH gets sacking and they go and get the most shity coach in the world Southgate a will not support my club no more. He needs time and support
Hilarious how the United fans want ten Haag to stay he’s crap 🤣
hope not he play boring football!
That was English football. Proper football, to me, not this bloodless tippy tappy of City which is the fashion with journalists. Only England can give football like that because of the supporters. I am an outsider, from the Colonies, but what you have in England is so special. 'Control' is a fad.
HE WASN'T UNDER THREAT IF HE LOST ANYWAYS ATHLETIC CLICKBAIT WRITERS
It will Bury him. Make him even more deluded before the inevitable hammering when they roll over meekly for City as always. United now is just Guardiola's doormat sadly
Let's revisit this comment when City is playing in the National League North some years down the line.
ETH will be sacked when Cov reach the final
Utd fans talking bollocks
As a City fan , I so wish Man United offers Ten Hag a life time contract 🙏
You spelt "115" fan wrong, buddy. Don't forget where your club came from. 🛢🛢🛢🛢🛢
As a united fan,I am well aware of the fact that the powers that be can give him any length contract they wish,but,as with any contractual employment they can terminate said contract at any point,should they believe it necessary. It's just a narrative the press can use for engagement.
@@paddylast5839Man U is oil 🛢 club my friend not City.
@ifldiscovery8500 factually city is a plastic oil club. United Liverpool Arsenal, etc, are real clubs with real history.
@@ifldiscovery8500 You havnt a fcuking clue whist up there you Melt!
They won't win it
Hope it saves him. He’s awful 🤤
Sports journlism has reached an all time low one game and now its here is the plan all along. Where was this plan when Fulham spanked them at Old Trafford. Lets be honest here Liverpool threw away that game. This is moments FC with a toxic culture of players who care more about their own brand than they do about Utd. They are 6th in the league and many would argue that flatters them as how many games have they won when they were totally outplayed. Please spare us this is the E10H second coming bullshit this team will probably get outplayed against Coventry if they play as they did against Wolves. They ended up bottom of an easy group in the CL and if as predicted they dont get top 4 and get hammered by City IF they make the final its a disaster of a season
Learn what the process of fundamental change looks like.
Man U have to be the only club to win a game in extra time, right at the death, and somehow have people talking about how it's all part of the plan and it's actually genius from the manager. Funny how different the conversation was when Ten Hag's style of play led to results like Fulham or Bournemouth.
It was part of the plan though? United had no intention of waiting for penalties