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"Could we at least get Kirby Air Ride 2" As a Kirby fan I found myself agreeing with a lot of points in this video, but I ESPECIALLY agree with this one.
"I didnt play planet robobot" Not that Robobot invalidates your criticisms against the Kirby series But robobot was a fucking kirby game done right in all the right eays. it reinvigorated the kirby fandom to the pont where it got a lot of people back into kirby. Even though a lot of your points still stand, you should play robobot to see one of the best representations of kirby.
HARD agree, it is the best solo Kirby game ever made, IMO. Super Star Ultra was my favorite before Robobot came out, but the mechs and level design make it so much better and more fun than any other Kirby game in the series. Plus, it has outright the best soundtrack overall. CHOCK full of bangers.
@@akimbo4637 Well you're not wrong about that. Whether it's opinions or facts, Twitter will always find a reason to be pissed off over something no matter the subject.
@@ItsRetroPlanet ah, but as Nintendo is assloads of lazy, their excuse would be: “well crafted world was kinda 3D” anyway I’d love to see a 3D yoshi (and Kirby... and another 3D donkey Kong and 3D chibi-robo) game. Maybe they could, all though look who were talking about, make the game kinda a prequel to 64 DS, where it shows the intro cutscene to 64 ds at the end. It could play just like 64DS yoshi.
I think everyone agrees at this point that the RtDL style has become stale. Even HAL agrees by stating that they're moving into the "next phase" of Kirby (which everyone thinks means 3D) and that the next mainline title will be the biggest one yet. I'm not too worried about Kirby's future, at least compared to some other Nintendo IPs.
Despite RtDL being my favorite Kirby game of all time, I agree. It just... Sorta wore off with each new title. Star Allies was the series' chance to do something COMPLETELY new, but unfortunately didn't.
@@sp7318 Eh, I think Robobot was the peak of the Quadrology, a part of Star Allies problem was that it was a four player game but didn't account for single players (until the final DLC anyway).
@@solrack2558 It would have made sense to have a completely new type of kirdy game for the switch. You have these other franchises like Mario and Zelda doing these big new things and then there’s kirdy with there most Basic game in the last 10 years.
@@bagelgod946 I'd argue only BOTW was truly innovative, Odyssey was just the next big 3D Mario game with it's own gimmick. That aside I do agree with you, and I wish Star Allies was, at the very least, the peak of the RtDL formula if they were planning for the next phase of Kirby to be in the next mainline game. I'll give them credit for atleast trying to right their wrongs with free DLC.
I don't fully agree with "Don't fix what isn't broken." Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it's not mediocre. But you shouldn't change something so that it loses what made it good (unless you can replace it with something even better).
every project should always be striving for improvement, at least until it comes to a satisfying conclusion. my band director once said something about competing that stuck with me; "the best is yet to come"
I say take something and refine it as opposed to flat out changing it, which is what Kirby usually does with it's formula. Obviously people are tired of the Return formula, but that's where he's had some of his best games imo.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Okay eating the same food everyday with slightly different seasonings would me alive, but I'm not gonna sit there and say that I've truly "lived". I GOTTA try something different or better or else I'd get bored with it.
The “Difficulty” problem with Kirby would be easily solved if HAL brought back difficulty settings like in Kirby’s Dreamland and Kirby’s Return to Dreamland. Granted, in those games you had to unlock it, but the option to select the difficulty from the start would make solving the difficulty issue very easy. That, or HAL just makes the games about the difficulty of your typical Mario game. Also, Yoshi’s Wooly World is genuinely great game that’s on the same level as Yoshi’s Island and I will not stand for this slander of it.
I was a little surprised to see him skip over Wooly World like that, I wonder if he played it. It wasn't some crazy overhaul of the series but it definitely justified itself as a new Yoshi game, that felt like Yoshi's Island without leaning too hard on it. And collecting everything was much less painful.
There still is an hard mode in the modern games,but the problem is, that since triple deluxe with dedede, it makes you use characters who are so broken that you barely notice the difficulty increase.
The original point of the first game was to have something that everyone, regardless of their skill level, can enjoy. It's odd that they kinda dropped that idea.
@@CDRW24 they didn't drop it instantly, they just did it in a different way - the three dreamland games (dreamland 2 on gameboy, dreamland 3 on snes, 64 on you know what) had collectibles in each stage (world in case of dl2) and getting them all was required to unlock a secret boss and get the good ending, and some of them were surprisingly not that easy when going for that good ending - nothing hard, but quite fun. kirby's adventure was also meant to have an extra mode - there sort of is one, but due to the game already being too much for the NES and a much more complex game for the team than their previous work, it's just a mode where your health is halved and you can't save, which is sad since having an extra mode in that game would have been really fun
Everybody: *talking about their opinions on Kirby and other games* Me: *still laughing my ass off remembering Uncle Al trying to break that Ridge wallet*
@@lambybunny7173 I wouldn't say it requires no brain power. It's easier than most games but the true arena esc modes can offer a little bit of challenge at the higher levels.
I have two things to say: 1. I HIGHLY reccomend you play Planet Robobot whenever you get the opportunity, Uncle Al. I think you'd enjoy it much more than Star Allies. It may still follow the standard formula, but it does enough to feel unique gameplay-wise (in my opinion). 2. As a huge Kirby fan, I definitely agree with your video. Ever since Star Allies, I've felt that the Kirby series needs some new life breathed into it. It's not that the modern series of games are bad; they're well-made at the end of the day. It's just that they don't try to push the boundaries of the franchise in substantial ways. I hope that HAL will take the time to consider the potential of what Kirby can achieve with a broader scope. And if HAL's recent statements are anything to go off of, it seems like they want something similar. Hopefully the next mainline game we see lives up to expectations!
This sounds dumb, but imagine a Kirby game where it's a hack n' slash/beat em up like God Of War. It's not too out of place, especially considering the Lore of Kirby
@@misterdewott8766 I'd give that a shot. Kirby spinoffs have mostly been experimental and sound a little weird in concept, but a lot of them turn out to be really fun. A hack n' slash Kirby game doesn't sound impossible to me.
Something to note: I recently got my grandma to play Mario Odyssey. She has barely even seen a 3D game before, yet she made it halfway through the desert world by the second sitting, thanks to the assist mode. A game can be fundamentally easy, yet still provide enough depth that Ghosts N' Goblins veterans like myself can crown it our single favourite game. Kirby needs to provide this level of depth and optional challenge.
1: 11:06 cmon man woolly world is pretty pog 2: Just gotta say,be careful what you wish for,because kirby easily can end up like paper mario over there.
I think my friend on discord said it best: “Kirby is a series with 6/10 gameplay 9/10 characters perfect music perfect level enviornments” Edit: Super Star is overrated lmao
It really depends on which game for the gameplay. The best games or the most critically acclaimed in the series (like Robobot and Epic Yarn) should have around a 8.5/10 gameplay. Really only some spinoffs and games like Squeak Squad and Star Allies would get like a 6/10.
That's true for most Kirby games except Super Star and Super Star Ultra those games are 11/10 and are some of the best 2D platformers I ever played and ive played alot of 2D platformers.No other Kirby game I have played has ever been as well paced or feel as good to play as Super Star/Ultra,the other games feel slow in comparison.The game modes my not be very long(with the exception of great cave offensive)but that's what makes them good in my eyes.Every other Kirby game is boring slog to play through with boring level design and sluggish controls.
To answer your question on the pokemon vs kirby thing. Unlike Kirby, Pokemon has DEVOLVED from a higher point, gens 4 and especially 5 were packed with content, and then every gen after have been post game dry, with little to nothing to do. Kirby is same old same old but when it comes to a platformer the additional gimmicks also have more of an impact to the user in the feel rather than another new gimmick form in an rpg that makes numbers bigger just the same. Kirby has more substance and care to it all, and it hasn't lost any of that. Also Kirby is not easy when ya get to post game shit, it's no dark souls levels of punishing, but it's not baby easy either.
But to get to most of the post game stuff you still have to go through the same old and stale easy platforming while going through the same boring environments and fighting the occasional enemy which are always the same kinds except for the occasional new enemy to introduce the new copy ability it is all the same Any Kirby game I play I see tons of the same waddle dees and doos along with the cutter enemy And the only thing that makes any Kirby game unique are the visuals and gimmick except for super star and robo bot but it was because those games had some better design and more than one gimmick but that is besides the point And if you argue (how about the spinoffs or side game content) The Monkee man says if himself You still have to go through all of the long slow and painfully easy plataforming first to do any of that Plus it is just the side content That is like going to a fast food chain like McDonalds or burger king just for some plain fries So the Monkee man is wright when he says that the Kirby franchise is stale and it has not improved for a long while There is no arguing with that
@@erikbalandra5191 there is a simple problem: Kirby is an extremely fun gameplay loop with enough variety game to game that me and many others can still enjoy it. If you can't you may just not be the type of person for the franchise.
@@GeebzGBZ For someone that's a fan of a series that prides itself on being for everyone, you sure are alienating a group of people that could help push the series to new heights.
Kirby is like the comfort food of platformers But that comfort food gets you fat after awhile, you know? Like, I SPEEDRUN a Kirby game and I'll never deny that Kirby isn't making progress I really thought that Kirby had something going. I don't even think they have to go 3D, they just have to mix the great elements from the past. Amazing Mirror's Open World Multiplayer + 64, Dreamland 3, and Allies' Power Variety + Super Star's Gameplay variety is the greatest Kirby we have yet to have I would honestly like for them to expand on what Amazing Mirror did because it was honestly ahead of its time but really anything besides [Linear 2.5D Piss Easy Platformer] is good for me Literally only change one of these variables and you have a more engaging game.
I agree with you and Monkee man both Certain element's of Kirby can mix to make a monumentally good game but nintendo being Nintendo wanting to apeal to as many people as possible will not mix things and keep Kirby as a stale and easy babies game Now that I think people only like Kirby because of the easy difficulty Cute character designs Gimmicks Or side content You never hear someone talking about the good aspects of Kirby games But when it comes to the stuff I listed they eat it up like the spaghetti that Mom made Point is that I agree with you both and I think it is a possibility In the future but if Nintendo acts like Nintendo again they will not allow it they will just force hal to make another painful easy and stale babies game
Except it isn't, HAL just tried, like, 20% harder to make the Robobot Armor unique compared to the other gimmicks, and it's basically on the same level as Hypernova
So I think they are finally stepping forward towards open world. I personally like the turn based battle system because I play comp and it's a system I like but I want more changes to the campaign vs the battle system itself.
Even swsh had innovation, raid battles were fun and and the wild area is a step into open world. I have a feeling that by the time we reach Gen 9 or 10 or so we’ll have a fully open world game.
@@homiesobble6578 Doubtful they will considering the graphics and animations are so lackluster but it sold very well so they know they don't have to do much.
Personally, I do agree with and believe that Kirby games should be harder and supply less healing things, because good lord- I've played through Star Allies for example, and I swore that I had over 300 lives in the main campaign alone even before I fought the final boss. Like, literally the rarest thing you'll see in that particular game is the Game Over screen. However, I, like many other Kirby fans, do enjoy the feel, charm, music, etc and etc of the games, despite how bizarre, cute, or demonic (the final bosses of certain games) they can get. The enemies overall are very weak, and more often then not, you'll kill them without even trying. One of the more "defensive" and quite possibly even the most defensive monsters for example, is Rocky, who doesn't take one hit to kill unlike most other enemies. Literally that one single enemy is stronger than other common enemies.
Seriously. If they didn't want us to die just don't have lives like epic yarn. Also to my knowledge I don't think it goes down when you turn off the game. In every other Kirby game the lives reset to the number you started with at the beginning when you turn off the game not here though for some reason. And they need to chill with the food. I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if there aren't 20 pieces of cake being thrown at me. Also we stan rocky for actually trying.
So, from what I can gather, most of Nintendo's franchises are either their magnum opuses that they innovate or improve every couple games (Mario and Zelda), games that have stuck to a formula and are starting to lose their luster (Pokemon and Kirby), or black sheeps that will barely see the light of day outside of Smash (Chibi-Robo, F-Zero, Metroid, etc.)
As a Star Fox fan at heart, it pains me to see the series stuck in its current state. I might not have finished Adventures and Assult, but I would love to see the series take more risks with its design and create more engaging levels. Assault was a step in the right direction and while I appreciate the attempts at changing the formula Star Fox Zero made, it wasn't enough now that I look back. Edit: Just realized I did finish most of the games multiple times. Oops.
Person: State your opinion Random Person: Kirby is... Twitter: That's your opinion so meh Uncle Al: Well Kirby is... Twitter: Wait is that the opinion of a *CZcamsR?!* (Proceed to sharpen their pitchforks)
I agree, his opinion doesn't really change my current view of Kirby. I do agree that Kirby should innovate BUT I feel fine with how it is currently. I think that's a problem with Kirby; they can innovate but the formula they have is too perfect for kirby that it seems impossible to try and change it up without it becoming a side game.
One of my biggest reason why return to dreamland is still my favorite Kirby game was how difficult it COULD be. You can go out to get all the collectibles, complete the arenas, and play through the game a second time but harder all the way through
If I can make a suggestion maybe it's not even that kirby needs to be difficult but instead it needs more complexities to its levels. You can still keep a game easy but add a level of complexity to completing levels that makes the game feel less sort of mind numbingly straight forward to beat by making the player have to engage with the various unique things in the level more. On top of being easy these games can often lead into having the problem of giving you a massive tool kit but not really giving you much to use it on. I kind of wonder if making kirby have a more branching path format might help or making it sorta like sonic where you can take different routes to get to the end might make the game feel better to play. That or even make more level themes that are sorta odd to play around with might help or give more interactables for various types of abilities or even a secondary challenge for more hardcore players. The "collectibles being nail bitingly hard to get" thing epic yard did seemed to work out for it to appeal to people who liked harder games from what I can tell. Like the sorta original philosophy of kirby wasn't just "accessible to new players" but that it was that but also had enough depth for more experienced players too, its the same philosophy Sakurai tries to apply to smash bros and most of his games and I feel playing more into that second part would really help the game considering these games are inherently beginner friendly with how you literally can fly over things. Giving Kirby branching paths and a way to avoid certain bosses or levels would help newer players with hard parts but would also make it more replayable for older players as well I feel. Im just ramblin with ideas tho, I think maybe revisiting the amazing mirror format and refining it so it's not as bad as it was could also be a way to do things, I feel that type of kirby game has a LOT of untapped potential honestly.
One of the biggest problems with Star Allies imo was how painfully easy the puzzles were. The past 3 games had great puzzles, but the puzzles in Star Allies were basically handed to you on a silver platter. And the 3DS games also had the benefit of being single player experiences, with compact level design and the amazing addition of foreground & background. Star Allies removing Foreground & Background made it feel like a massive downgrade to me.
Star allies feels insultingly easy and it feels like the game is treating me like a baby while doing these puzzles Everything is too obvious and simple
I really like this video. Lots of people will just tear down Kirby without giving any logical reasoning or mentioning the pros, but you did here and I agree with your points. I love Star Allies, but I really did feel bored while playing the story, and I think you hit the nail on the head with that.
@@millythompsonfromtrigun98anime Kirby is good as It is Everything New or Old puts a smile on my face Kirby is Kirby More Kirby is Kirby And I love Kirby the way he is and the way he Isn't The deep Lore, the cheerful design, the calm levels, the nostalgia Kirby is amazing
I don't think it's the ONLY way. Super Star proves that the 2D formula can be used to create some very unique experiences with only a few minor changes. To review, Super Star essentially created prototypes for no less than six unique games including: -A remake of Dream Land -A map-based linear platformer -An explorative treasure hunt platformer -A platformer racing game -A linear story-driven platformer -A game where copy abilities have to be slowly acquired one-by-one -A combat-focused platformer And all of this was done using the same engine; proving that reinventing the wheel isn't necessary, HAL just has to find more creative uses for the wheel they already have.
Star Allies Haters: sTaR aLlIeZ wAz ToO eAsY aNd BoRiNg! Heroes in Another Dimension & Soul Melter EX: Are we jokes to you? Anyway, in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind seeing the Kirby series change its formula. I'm down for a Kirby game with a completely different formula. :)
Honestly, the Kirby series could really be spiced up if the devs opted to make enemies have newer, more unpredictable and challenging fighting styles. Rather than walking in a straight line and launching the occasional attack, they could actively evade damage and be tankier, as well as preform different moves in different instances. That would atleast make normal stages more engaging.
Return to Dreamland was a good start for the Kirby games developed on the engine it came with. Triple Deluxe and Planet Robotbot were great. However, Star Allies (lore contribution aside) was easily the weakest of their efforts on the Return to Dreamland engine. My guess what they can do is move onto a new engine and go back to being more experimental with the spinoffs; like they used to be with games like Mass Attack and Kirby's Air Ride.
I always liked Whispy Woods being in every game because it's like an iconic staple. A tradition, a symbol almost. Something that will hit hard to old fans.
Whispy Woods innovates more than Kracko does if I'm being honest. Kracko's biggest innovations were in Squeak Squad and Triple Deluxe. Whispy's biggest innovations include Flowery Woods and Clanky Woods. Flowery Woods being on level with Triple Deluxe Kracko (if not, moreso) and Clanky Woods being practically unrecognizable as a Whispy fight. Mecha Kracko is still recognizable as a Kracko fight, especially in comparison to Clanky Woods.
The Series peaked with 64. Seriously why haven't we gotten combined powerups again? "Star Allies was a step in the right direction but not as complex or fun as 64." I wanna see what kinda neat shit can be done with all the new powers they added recently by combining 2 of any powerups.
because the game designer and director behind games like 64 has been missing since 2001 and a photo of him was only found this year in a obscure kirby's dream course guide book.
@@marx4538 That would explain it. Though it could also be the same problem Paper Mario had where Nintendo literally won't let them do anything with the IP lest it "hurt the brand". I say be more like modern SEGA which operates like Kalinksi era SEGA and let anything go. You get more fun games that way. Sure you get the occasional clunker but hey, it's better than mediocre games right?
While I can understand and agree with most of what you say, I personally feel like most of the fun from kirby games comes from the exploration and experimentation. sure getting through the main campaigns is easy but there's a satisfaction that comes with noticing patterns or discovering how powers and sometimes combinations interact with the environment (best done in crystal shards, kinda in star allies). I don't really agree with the take on the side content and lore though. Arenas including alternate bosses and true ends along with other extra modes are well known driving factors of the series since Super Star (not to mention Milky Way Wishes which pretty much was the main campaign is one of the last ones you unlock) . And once you start piecing together boss descriptions and Easter eggs on top of the relatively basic campaign stories, it unravels an interesting world that is way more Lovecraftian than something this cute should be. Oh yeah also it's cute, that's like the most important point. not one restricted to any gameplay style but important nonetheless.
Now he did say something very true "it ain't really front and center" the lore as complex and interesting as it is, is a side thing, not the core of the franchise
I can imagine an interesting concept for a 3D Kirby game. Directional star shots, up to 3 star shots at a time dependent on how many enemies or objects you consume for it. The tree fight could be really different, instead of it always dropping it's apples to try and hit you they could make the tree only drop apples if a certain thing happens. Imagine there being a plant that grows in the levels leading up to the tree fight that if sucked up can be used as a stunning/impact star shot. And they have a larger tank like enemy that you cannot suck up unless it is stunned. So the tree fight would consist of the tree swiping tree branches and jumping on you. But if you suck up the "thump plant" you can hit it with a thump star shot and stun it while making it drop apples for you to hit it with. This could be a nice way to make the game still Kirby but also add more difficulty. Each place has a new object or plant that can be used for a special shot and let's you beat the boss faster or easier. You can still defeat the boss without the objects but it will just take longer. They could also add a hard mode which is always available and disables the ability to beat the boss without the objects.
Technically DKC never really has gotten stale. Mainly due to how in the original trilogy, it keeps switching up the main kongs, keeping every new and unique. They also kept adding new animal buddies.
While i agree that kirby has become a bit it seems as HAL themselves know this too. They actively said that they are gonna do "the next phase for kirby" for the next mainline installment.
The "B Team" needs to make more games. They're the devs behind Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, and Kirby Battle Royale--two of those three are excellent, challenging games with unique art styles and new physics engines (and the other is Battle Royale). This group knows how to make a fun Kirby game that feels new and is completely unexpected. Kirby thrives off spontaneity and different artists' visions.
I really don't give a damn if Kirby doesn't innovate, I find the games incredibly fun due to concept alone and I feel he's had some of his best in recent years. The only real time I felt Kirby didn't really hit that mark was with the Dream Land games and Squeak Squad, but that's like a few games out of the rest. While I agree nothing would be wrong with trying to innovate (hell even the devs seem to agree), it's a franchise that doesn't exactly need it per se because the established formula is already fine as is. I feel games like Triple Deluxe and Robobot are fantastic games even though they use the same formula, but they're some of the best in that formula.
I kinda get what your saying but hal are kinda running out of ideas for the 2d formula and i loved these games but I kinda want something new but keep elements from the past game.
If you are fine with no change that is just like eating the same food everyday with just a new spice thrown on top of it At one point you start to wish for variety
Interesting video. You definitely presented your arguments well. Here's my take on everything: First off, while I get the example you were trying to make, I do think you *greatly* oversimplify the evolution of the series core gameplay up until to Return to Dreamland. Every traditional Kirby game from its first entry to Return to Dreamland had the same core gameplay but also had fundamentally unique level designs that make the levels in each game stand out from each other and featured gimmicks that do actually affected the structure of the games as a whole. Adventure introduced the Copy Ability. Super Star was several greatly different adventures merged into one. Amazing Mirror was a freaking metroidvania. Kirby Return to Dreamland was a modern take that served as an amalgamation of many of these ideas while also introducing new structures of its own. So and so on. We had the same core formula, but the gimmicks introduced with the games (with the exception of Squeak Squad) actually gave each game a unique identity of its own. It's really only after Return to Dreamland that the affects of these new gimmicks start to feel more superficial which brings me into my next point. I'm gonna be frank here. Planet Robobot doesn't really break your argument. It's a great game but frankly overrated in terms of the hype it gets for breaking the mold. In the end it just superficially iterates on the core structure set by the truly revolutionary game of the modern era that was Kirby Return to Dreamland. At the time RTD came out, we hadn't gotten a traditional Kirby game on a home console in over a decade. So fittingly Return to Dreamland sought to be a grand return of the formula we grew to love but also saw to not only iterate and combine great ideas, but also brought strong new concepts to the table that gave it a strong identity. It was the first game in the series to have a truly involved plot and actually featured a hub where you could interact with a character that would be the key stepping stone for tying the franchise's lore together and being the canvas to further paint it. With Super Abilities, it not only brought spectacle but also used them to segway into the Another Dimension levels which would not only lead to great shakeups in the gameplay but also set the game up for its insane final act which the series had not seen the likes of yet. It added these new and meaningful concepts while bringing back everything we were familiar but bigger and better than ever. It was Kirby's answer to Donkey Kong Country Returns in being a game that brings back the old in a totally revitalized new image. This game took a while to come out, but when it did, its structure proved to be strong. So strong in fact that outside of some spinoffs, it has basically served as the raw schematic that HAL has used for all their games since. And I think it's here that things *truly* got stale. Regardless of whether one thing TD and PR are the best games or not, they undeniably not only follow the core series' formula but Return to Dreamland in particular's formula and this is why the series now feels a bit tired. It's not just emulating one style. It's been emulating 1 specific game and as New Super Mario Bros shows, iterating one speciific game in a series, even when its a refreshing return of the classics, can only get ya so far. Robobot was fun but at the end of the day it's really just following in RTD's footsteps and I'd argue it regresses in some respects. The Robobot armor doesn't do anything mindblowing until the end of the game and feels pretty mundane throughout most of it. And while it has a lot of lore and a neat innate plot, the story isn't as actively involved and developed as RTD's was since Susie doesn't have particularly substantial interactions with you until the final act. Similar to what TD and Star Allies did. In the end, it still just felt like you were running along and you didn't have anything like a hub to truly embrace your progress or get more background info. So what am I getting at with all this? 3 things: 1. I do feel, despite not jumping to the 3rd dimension in grand style, Kirby was actively evolving up to Return to Dreamland. 2. Return to Dreamland, not Planet Robobot, is the true revolutionary game of the modern decade. 3. The franchise feels stale not because it's using the same formula, but rather cause it's specifically using RETURN TO DREAMLAND's formula. It's easier to feel stale when you use one game's setup vs only going off the most fundamental gameplay of the series. Having said all that, I no less agree that at this point, the best next step for HAL woudl be to finally take this franchise into the 3rd dimension. The climate would be perfect for it with all the expansive games in the industry making comebacks. And as you allude, it needs to actually feel like a grand 3d adventure. Not simply toy with it like Blowout Blast did. I do think Star Allies become a solid game after its DLC, but I no less agree that it really shows that it's time for the series to move out of Return to Dreamland's shadow.
Maybe They should add a difficulty setting to the next games story mode or other modes. This would allow them to retain accessibility while still being able to pose some challenge.
I think the best way to innovate Kirby is to make it 3D. It’s been about 30 years since 3D gaming has been introduced and we still haven’t gotten a mainline 3D Kirby game, while most other Nintendo series’s have gotten 3D titles.
Good thing the Wario Land franchise doesn't suffer about that, because each game (with the exception of shake it, although that's a good game) makes a spin on the formula, basic platformer, background and foreground level design, puzzle platformer, demi metroidvania, the culmination of the ones mentioned (minus the background one), 3d beat em up
Honestly if they ever do make more 2d Kirby games I kinda want it to be in the same style as Crystal shards where they had dynamic angles and mechanics
I think a 3D open world game would do the trick. Something where you can ride the warp star around, find side missions, etc. Add puzzles that you need certain copy abilities to interact with.
I think the reason Pokémon is called out for being stagnant and not Kirby is due to the fact that Pokémon exists in the RPG category, which is one that evolving rapidly and always trying new things, while Pokémon takes one step forward, off of the cliff. Kirby games appeal to the same people that buy the New Soup games, it’s simple pick and up and play, and you know exactly what you’re getting into, for better or for worse. Does it mean it should avoid change. No of course not, but the majority of Kirby fans find comfort in having the same formula, just improved slightly from game to game. It’s why every spinoff since air ride has been 2D. Kirby doesn’t NEED to evolve like Zelda and Mario on the switch, it’s core concept will always sell, but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t.
About that pokémon thing even yet, other games have shown even the smallest changes can make the experience better. Nexomon, a game that just got shipped on the switch, has a lot of little changes to it, like that wild nexomon can actually drop money,. Playing older games, especially Crystal right now, I constantly find myself having way less money then I should. I right now am at the steel type gym leaders, and due to not having a good enough Pokemon to withstand thunderbolt (I chose Pokemon that have a disadvantage early on for a challenge), I cannot buy enough great balls to capture the Pokemon that I do need, a mantine out in the sea, to be able to beat them. Yes I could use wooper, but like I said, I want this extra challenge because most of the games later on don't have this kind of luxury. Especially sword and shield.
@@slug3982 it's definitely done some things to change up the game, but the problem is they haven't stayed with them period mega evolutions were like this very huge thing that everybody enjoyed. It was fun to think about what kind of Pokemon could get such a title, but as soon as sword and shield came out, that idea was scrapped for something much less impressive. it doesn't help that the games themselves have gotten so easy, I could practically play the game one-handed while blindfolded and still get through the main quest.
You mean the quantity over quality system? Every copy ability system after Super Star Ultra shits on 64. Why? Because having a lot of copy abilities doesn't matter if they each have only one move attached to them.
Even though the game itself is easy, some games (like star allies) have hard modes, like heroes in another dimension. But I agree, they should add some more challenge
I agree. Hopefully we'll get a main line Kirby game that adds more difficulty to it, like an RPG, or a Warriors like game, or a 3D platformer, just whatever works
Because it's starting to get broken. Star Allies is the biggest example on this. I would LOVE some approach like Planet robobot, with metal woods not being static but rather a metalic robot who resembles a tree.
I think the big issue with this video is that it insisted that all kirby games are "the same", despite the fact this isn't exactly the truest statement. While the latest mainline Kirby game (Star Allies) suffered from this, pretty good chunk of Kirby games have entirely different things, such as no abilities in OG dream land, animal buddies in dream land 2 and 3, combo abilities in 64, Amazing Mirror being a flat out Metroidvania etc. Nothing would be wrong with taking a new direction with Kirby though. Star Allies seems to be the last of Return to Dreamland style games. I wonder how would 3D Kirby look like.
tbh I'd agree with your opinion for like... 80% of all kirby games. The worst about this failure to innovate is that HAL Laboratory has shown that they can innovate with Kirby: Planet Robobot. The gimmick that is the Robobot was imo much more fun and varied compared to the Super Abilities or Hyper-Succ. Plus the fact that it can itself copy abilities help keep the Robobot moments fresh, and because it can't hover, the platforming "challenges" can be more challenging. Another thing I love about it is how it uses its theme of forced mecanization to its fullest: almost all enemies by cyborg/robotic versions; food items are mostly cans and bottles instead of dishes, the copy abilities have a theme of being tech-y instead of nature-y, with Jet, Wheel or the new Doctor. Notably, Poison was added as a replacement to Water, with the plot justifying it by saying the Water Galboros have been "corrupted" into Miasmoros by the toxic wastes Haltmann Works dumps into the planet's water sources. To reuse one of your examples: the Whispy Woods battle in Planet Robobot is completely different from all the previous ones. Instead of being stuck, Whispy's been forcefully turned into a monstrous drill quadrupeds, which runs about shooting rocket drills or throwing explosive hulls. I'll stay optimistic and hope that the next title will change the current RtDL formula (while I love RtDL, Triple Deluxe and Star Allies have been kind of disappointing).
Dude, Al. I love this video man. You should consider making more of these discussion videos. I know there’s dozens of other CZcamsrs who do this but I’d like to hear what you have to say about things
HUGE thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and sponsoring this video! Sponsors like Ridge make doing CZcams a bit easier on us creators, so if you have the chance, go show em some love!
> ridge.com/UNCLEAL
Use code "UNCLEAL" for 10% off your order
Sup Uncle Al your sponge bob videos are very funny and your videos are great dude
Good to see you getting sponsors now
but AAAAALLL, how do i store my coins?!?!!
You and meatcanyon look pretty similar in my opinion. Edit: my top 2 Kirby games are superstar ultra and squeak squad.
Have you seen the Donkey Kong Country show?
At first I read it as “Kidney Failure to Innovate”
That's so much better
I want that now
Yeah, fuck kidneys, what do they do anyways, they havent changed it's main formula and got stale, maybe that's the reason why people sell them
improvise
adapt
overcome
Those stupid kidneys can piss off!
"Could we at least get Kirby Air Ride 2"
As a Kirby fan I found myself agreeing with a lot of points in this video, but I ESPECIALLY agree with this one.
I want a Kirby Air Ride, but only if Sakurai is the head designer, like with the previous air ride game.
Since it sold on the gamecube, which already was doomed from the start, I don't think so.
@@wantedasylum1091 prime still exists
I still to this day have very fond memories of K.A.R. the finding every lil glitch and secret in city trial was a blast and the music, phenomenal.
@@dissonanceparadiddle you're missing the point.
1:44 "THERE I AM, GARY! THERE I AM!"
Thanks, Al!
Congrats
Lucky you.
I really would freaking love a 3D take on Kirby
Edit: hey it happened, and is freaking awesome, this video aged well
Hey Wii!
We were gonna get that
Kirby 64 lel
Join the club boi
He would work like tales from sa but with
More S U C C
"I didnt play planet robobot"
Not that Robobot invalidates your criticisms against the Kirby series But robobot was a fucking kirby game done right in all the right eays. it reinvigorated the kirby fandom to the pont where it got a lot of people back into kirby. Even though a lot of your points still stand, you should play robobot to see one of the best representations of kirby.
Robobot was loads of fun. I'd still go back to it if I didn't lose it like an idiot. One of my favourite gaming experiences.
100% agree, robobot was the game that made me fall in love with the kirby series all over again, a really amazing game
Many Kirby fans owe it to themselves to at least give Robobot a try.
HARD agree, it is the best solo Kirby game ever made, IMO. Super Star Ultra was my favorite before Robobot came out, but the mechs and level design make it so much better and more fun than any other Kirby game in the series. Plus, it has outright the best soundtrack overall. CHOCK full of bangers.
@@castform7 yeah that game absolutely needs to be played
So basically Twitter being Twitter over a gaming debate.
Pretty much
Gamers are upset
*incoherent twitter goblin screeching*
It's not as much of a "gaming debate" as it is cold, hard, facts.
@@akimbo4637 Well you're not wrong about that. Whether it's opinions or facts, Twitter will always find a reason to be pissed off over something no matter the subject.
"I haven't played Robobot"
You're missing out, man. Go do that!
What he said.
Something to note about having a 3D yoshi game: We already got a neat prototype of what that would look like called super Mario 64 DS
Also, Argonaut was interested in making one, but nintendo rejected it, and the pitch turned into Croc.
I know this may be unrelated to this, but in sm64ds yoshi should've gotten the kiss, not mario.
@@Cevaro2 ah didn’t notice that was kinda doing something while I had the video running in the background
Croc and croc two were also supposed to be Yoshi based games. so we have three games in total that would show just how easy it would be.
@@ItsRetroPlanet ah, but as Nintendo is assloads of lazy, their excuse would be: “well crafted world was kinda 3D” anyway I’d love to see a 3D yoshi (and Kirby... and another 3D donkey Kong and 3D chibi-robo) game. Maybe they could, all though look who were talking about, make the game kinda a prequel to 64 DS, where it shows the intro cutscene to 64 ds at the end. It could play just like 64DS yoshi.
I think everyone agrees at this point that the RtDL style has become stale. Even HAL agrees by stating that they're moving into the "next phase" of Kirby (which everyone thinks means 3D) and that the next mainline title will be the biggest one yet. I'm not too worried about Kirby's future, at least compared to some other Nintendo IPs.
Despite RtDL being my favorite Kirby game of all time, I agree. It just... Sorta wore off with each new title. Star Allies was the series' chance to do something COMPLETELY new, but unfortunately didn't.
@@sp7318 Eh, I think Robobot was the peak of the Quadrology, a part of Star Allies problem was that it was a four player game but didn't account for single players (until the final DLC anyway).
@@solrack2558 It would have made sense to have a completely new type of kirdy game for the switch. You have these other franchises like Mario and Zelda doing these big new things and then there’s kirdy with there most Basic game in the last 10 years.
@@bagelgod946 I'd argue only BOTW was truly innovative, Odyssey was just the next big 3D Mario game with it's own gimmick. That aside I do agree with you, and I wish Star Allies was, at the very least, the peak of the RtDL formula if they were planning for the next phase of Kirby to be in the next mainline game. I'll give them credit for atleast trying to right their wrongs with free DLC.
kirbys toy box gang
I got an ad when "Every Kirby in between" came up. Apparently Kirby is a Jimmy Dean breakfast meal between 92 and 18.
😂😂
Wow now we know what Kirby is
He or she is a Jimmy dean breakfast meal
I don't fully agree with "Don't fix what isn't broken."
Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it's not mediocre.
But you shouldn't change something so that it loses what made it good (unless you can replace it with something even better).
Like fixing uncle al.
Well we know it’s certainly more than mediocre but I agree
every project should always be striving for improvement, at least until it comes to a satisfying conclusion. my band director once said something about competing that stuck with me; "the best is yet to come"
I say take something and refine it as opposed to flat out changing it, which is what Kirby usually does with it's formula. Obviously people are tired of the Return formula, but that's where he's had some of his best games imo.
@@ryusoulger9127 Basically, make a Sonic Colors instead of a Sonic Lost World. Refine ideas instead of scrapping them and trying something new.
Paper Mario fans WISH they had it like Kirby
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Okay eating the same food everyday with slightly different seasonings would me alive, but I'm not gonna sit there and say that I've truly "lived". I GOTTA try something different or better or else I'd get bored with it.
that's what the definition of comfort food is
“Well then your just wrong”
His argument absolutely crumbled
I am a die hard kirby fan who eats up every game like Mama's fresh Pasta... But the monkey makes good points. Kirby is in need of a new... thing.
Yo I can relate with the pasta thing
Very much
The “Difficulty” problem with Kirby would be easily solved if HAL brought back difficulty settings like in Kirby’s Dreamland and Kirby’s Return to Dreamland. Granted, in those games you had to unlock it, but the option to select the difficulty from the start would make solving the difficulty issue very easy. That, or HAL just makes the games about the difficulty of your typical Mario game.
Also, Yoshi’s Wooly World is genuinely great game that’s on the same level as Yoshi’s Island and I will not stand for this slander of it.
I was a little surprised to see him skip over Wooly World like that, I wonder if he played it. It wasn't some crazy overhaul of the series but it definitely justified itself as a new Yoshi game, that felt like Yoshi's Island without leaning too hard on it. And collecting everything was much less painful.
Forcing you to do stuff like no-hit runs for 100% completion a la Epic Yarn would be nice too ngl
There still is an hard mode in the modern games,but the problem is, that since triple deluxe with dedede, it makes you use characters who are so broken that you barely notice the difficulty increase.
The original point of the first game was to have something that everyone, regardless of their skill level, can enjoy. It's odd that they kinda dropped that idea.
@@CDRW24
they didn't drop it instantly, they just did it in a different way - the three dreamland games (dreamland 2 on gameboy, dreamland 3 on snes, 64 on you know what) had collectibles in each stage (world in case of dl2) and getting them all was required to unlock a secret boss and get the good ending, and some of them were surprisingly not that easy when going for that good ending - nothing hard, but quite fun. kirby's adventure was also meant to have an extra mode - there sort of is one, but due to the game already being too much for the NES and a much more complex game for the team than their previous work, it's just a mode where your health is halved and you can't save, which is sad since having an extra mode in that game would have been really fun
Everybody: *talking about their opinions on Kirby and other games*
Me: *still laughing my ass off remembering Uncle Al trying to break that Ridge wallet*
and is no one going to talk about the girl slapping a plate of ketchup
because I think she's a keeper
I’m doing both.
"Chicken is good"
Obviously that guy is spittin straight facts. Once you taste Wendy's spicy nuggets, you're in heaven
G I M M E THE S A L T Y N U G G E T S
is that you Wendy?
Eh, fries are better.
ehh, their fries are ok, and their reg chicken nuggets are really good, it's pretty much bizarro mcdonalds.
My Wendy's nuggies are just dry
As a Kirby fan, I can reluctantly agree. Hopefully, this giant project HAL Laboratory is working on will shake things up!
I kinda agree tbh
I’m a Kirby fan because it requires no brain power, so he’s 100% right
@@lambybunny7173 I wouldn't say it requires no brain power. It's easier than most games but the true arena esc modes can offer a little bit of challenge at the higher levels.
I really hope it's a 3D Kirby RPG
I have two things to say:
1. I HIGHLY reccomend you play Planet Robobot whenever you get the opportunity, Uncle Al. I think you'd enjoy it much more than Star Allies. It may still follow the standard formula, but it does enough to feel unique gameplay-wise (in my opinion).
2. As a huge Kirby fan, I definitely agree with your video. Ever since Star Allies, I've felt that the Kirby series needs some new life breathed into it. It's not that the modern series of games are bad; they're well-made at the end of the day. It's just that they don't try to push the boundaries of the franchise in substantial ways. I hope that HAL will take the time to consider the potential of what Kirby can achieve with a broader scope. And if HAL's recent statements are anything to go off of, it seems like they want something similar. Hopefully the next mainline game we see lives up to expectations!
This sounds dumb, but imagine a Kirby game where it's a hack n' slash/beat em up like God Of War. It's not too out of place, especially considering the Lore of Kirby
@@misterdewott8766 I'd give that a shot. Kirby spinoffs have mostly been experimental and sound a little weird in concept, but a lot of them turn out to be really fun. A hack n' slash Kirby game doesn't sound impossible to me.
I don’t know...Kirby had a good ass golf game
I agree with that
Now that I think about it the SNES is the golden ere of Kirby
Super star
Dream course
Both good games
This is why I don’t like Twitter anymore. Always having to clarify to people what you mean because people don’t understand what an opinion is.
Twitter users are the people that tell you that Minecraft is a linear game
@@unquestionableexistance8704 Minecraft can be a linear game if you want it to. It's a sandbox game, after all.
“Oh, so you hate waffles!”
“Oh, so you hate waffles!”
"now THIS is every kirby in between"
*ad plays for a scam cube game with gibberish singing in the background*
For me it was Domino's Pizza.
For me it was a Marines ad
I got a toilet paper one
everyones favorite MARKIPLIER COMES TO AFKDUNGEON
or whatever the fuck its called
Something to note:
I recently got my grandma to play Mario Odyssey. She has barely even seen a 3D game before, yet she made it halfway through the desert world by the second sitting, thanks to the assist mode.
A game can be fundamentally easy, yet still provide enough depth that Ghosts N' Goblins veterans like myself can crown it our single favourite game. Kirby needs to provide this level of depth and optional challenge.
Did she enjoy it? I've YET to play that Mario title and it looks AMAZING 😭
I love Super Ghouls n' Ghosts.
Kirby does provide that optional challenge, you probably haven't played the games enough to see it.
"Could we at least get Kirby Air Ride 2?"
I would also love for this to happen.
1: 11:06 cmon man woolly world is pretty pog
2: Just gotta say,be careful what you wish for,because kirby easily can end up like paper mario over there.
I think my friend on discord said it best:
“Kirby is a series with
6/10 gameplay
9/10 characters
perfect music
perfect level enviornments”
Edit: Super Star is overrated lmao
It really depends on which game for the gameplay. The best games or the most critically acclaimed in the series (like Robobot and Epic Yarn) should have around a 8.5/10 gameplay. Really only some spinoffs and games like Squeak Squad and Star Allies would get like a 6/10.
Sounds about right.
I agree that most Kirby games have subpar gameplay, but something about Superstar in particular is really special to me
That's true for most Kirby games except Super Star and Super Star Ultra those games are 11/10 and are some of the best 2D platformers I ever played and ive played alot of 2D platformers.No other Kirby game I have played has ever been as well paced or feel as good to play as Super Star/Ultra,the other games feel slow in comparison.The game modes my not be very long(with the exception of great cave offensive)but that's what makes them good in my eyes.Every other Kirby game is boring slog to play through with boring level design and sluggish controls.
Super star ultra is far superior, but it couldn’t exist without the original
To answer your question on the pokemon vs kirby thing.
Unlike Kirby, Pokemon has DEVOLVED from a higher point, gens 4 and especially 5 were packed with content, and then every gen after have been post game dry, with little to nothing to do.
Kirby is same old same old but when it comes to a platformer the additional gimmicks also have more of an impact to the user in the feel rather than another new gimmick form in an rpg that makes numbers bigger just the same.
Kirby has more substance and care to it all, and it hasn't lost any of that.
Also Kirby is not easy when ya get to post game shit, it's no dark souls levels of punishing, but it's not baby easy either.
Sword and Shield was a real big opportunity to make a Pokémon game even better and more innovative than botw, but they barely even tried...
But to get to most of the post game stuff you still have to go through the same old and stale easy platforming while going through the same boring environments and fighting the occasional enemy which are always the same kinds except for the occasional new enemy to introduce the new copy ability it is all the same
Any Kirby game I play I see tons of the same waddle dees and doos along with the cutter enemy
And the only thing that makes any Kirby game unique are the visuals and gimmick except for super star and robo bot but it was because those games had some better design and more than one gimmick but that is besides the point
And if you argue (how about the spinoffs or side game content)
The Monkee man says if himself
You still have to go through all of the long slow and painfully easy plataforming first to do any of that
Plus it is just the side content
That is like going to a fast food chain like McDonalds or burger king just for some plain fries
So the Monkee man is wright when he says that the Kirby franchise is stale and it has not improved for a long while
There is no arguing with that
@@erikbalandra5191 there is a simple problem: Kirby is an extremely fun gameplay loop with enough variety game to game that me and many others can still enjoy it. If you can't you may just not be the type of person for the franchise.
@@GeebzGBZ For someone that's a fan of a series that prides itself on being for everyone, you sure are alienating a group of people that could help push the series to new heights.
Kirby and the Forgotten Land: OH HELLO THERE
I feel like basic enemies could have more HP and more aggressive attacks. Half the time they just sit there while I kill them with a single attack.
That’s what bosses are for? Lol
Kirby is like the comfort food of platformers
But that comfort food gets you fat after awhile, you know?
Like, I SPEEDRUN a Kirby game and I'll never deny that Kirby isn't making progress
I really thought that Kirby had something going. I don't even think they have to go 3D, they just have to mix the great elements from the past.
Amazing Mirror's Open World Multiplayer + 64, Dreamland 3, and Allies' Power Variety + Super Star's Gameplay variety is the greatest Kirby we have yet to have
I would honestly like for them to expand on what Amazing Mirror did because it was honestly ahead of its time but really anything besides [Linear 2.5D Piss Easy Platformer] is good for me
Literally only change one of these variables and you have a more engaging game.
I agree with you and Monkee man both
Certain element's of Kirby can mix to make a monumentally good game but nintendo being Nintendo wanting to apeal to as many people as possible will not mix things and keep Kirby as a stale and easy babies game
Now that I think people only like Kirby because of the easy difficulty
Cute character designs
Gimmicks
Or side content
You never hear someone talking about the good aspects of Kirby games
But when it comes to the stuff I listed they eat it up like the spaghetti that Mom made
Point is that I agree with you both and I think it is a possibility In the future but if Nintendo acts like Nintendo again they will not allow it they will just force hal to make another painful easy and stale babies game
Now that I think about it this comment does not make much Scence and is a bit scattered all over the place and it misses the point
I think the pokemon franchise is more guilty of not innovating than Kirby, not gonna lie
Oh you covered it nevermind.
I mean Sword and sheild was their big chance to mane something more innovative than BOTW, but they barely even tried...
It's pretty obvious why Kirby is so easy.
You're straight up playing as a God
You should really play Planet Robobot. It IS an exception to the rule. The robots and the mechanical level design really shakes up the Kirby formula.
Except it isn't, HAL just tried, like, 20% harder to make the Robobot Armor unique compared to the other gimmicks, and it's basically on the same level as Hypernova
Planet robobot is just what sonic unleashed tried to do but done well when you think about it.
Pokemon: Ha! Amateur hour. Nobody will beat us in the lack of Innovation department.
So I think they are finally stepping forward towards open world. I personally like the turn based battle system because I play comp and it's a system I like but I want more changes to the campaign vs the battle system itself.
Even swsh had innovation, raid battles were fun and and the wild area is a step into open world. I have a feeling that by the time we reach Gen 9 or 10 or so we’ll have a fully open world game.
FIFA: check this shit out
@@homiesobble6578 Doubtful they will considering the graphics and animations are so lackluster but it sold very well so they know they don't have to do much.
@@arielglr7177 We don't consider sport games here. They're overachievers
Personally, I do agree with and believe that Kirby games should be harder and supply less healing things, because good lord- I've played through Star Allies for example, and I swore that I had over 300 lives in the main campaign alone even before I fought the final boss.
Like, literally the rarest thing you'll see in that particular game is the Game Over screen.
However, I, like many other Kirby fans, do enjoy the feel, charm, music, etc and etc of the games, despite how bizarre, cute, or demonic (the final bosses of certain games) they can get.
The enemies overall are very weak, and more often then not, you'll kill them without even trying. One of the more "defensive" and quite possibly even the most defensive monsters for example, is Rocky, who doesn't take one hit to kill unlike most other enemies. Literally that one single enemy is stronger than other common enemies.
Seriously. If they didn't want us to die just don't have lives like epic yarn. Also to my knowledge I don't think it goes down when you turn off the game. In every other Kirby game the lives reset to the number you started with at the beginning when you turn off the game not here though for some reason. And they need to chill with the food. I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if there aren't 20 pieces of cake being thrown at me. Also we stan rocky for actually trying.
In mario 3D Land i got over 956 lives ez
Not every game needs to be for everyone
So, from what I can gather, most of Nintendo's franchises are either their magnum opuses that they innovate or improve every couple games (Mario and Zelda), games that have stuck to a formula and are starting to lose their luster (Pokemon and Kirby), or black sheeps that will barely see the light of day outside of Smash (Chibi-Robo, F-Zero, Metroid, etc.)
Metroid Prime 4: Am I a joke to you?
@@DevilKazuya709 Yes, a joke we've been waiting 3 years for the punchline.
As a Star Fox fan at heart, it pains me to see the series stuck in its current state. I might not have finished Adventures and Assult, but I would love to see the series take more risks with its design and create more engaging levels. Assault was a step in the right direction and while I appreciate the attempts at changing the formula Star Fox Zero made, it wasn't enough now that I look back.
Edit: Just realized I did finish most of the games multiple times. Oops.
oh wow I actually never noticed that
@@DevilKazuya709 That joke is sooooo old
8:30 This argument basically boils down to “I bought Super Mario Sunshine just to collect the Blue Coins.”
Uncle Al: "Now this is Kirby in between"
CZcams: *shows ad*
Me: Ah yes, the best kirby game
Person: State your opinion
Random Person: Kirby is...
Twitter: That's your opinion so meh
Uncle Al: Well Kirby is...
Twitter: Wait is that the opinion of a *CZcamsR?!*
(Proceed to sharpen their pitchforks)
Ok as long as he likes Kirby, i don’t care about his opinion.
I APPROVE.
Agreed
@rantchy reactions
Bro that was so funny I forgot to laugh 😐
@rantchy reactions no u
I agree, his opinion doesn't really change my current view of Kirby. I do agree that Kirby should innovate BUT I feel fine with how it is currently. I think that's a problem with Kirby; they can innovate but the formula they have is too perfect for kirby that it seems impossible to try and change it up without it becoming a side game.
@rantchy reactions okay
9:21 this statement aged surprisingly well
One of my biggest reason why return to dreamland is still my favorite Kirby game was how difficult it COULD be. You can go out to get all the collectibles, complete the arenas, and play through the game a second time but harder all the way through
Tbh the amazing mirror is one of the most innovative kirby games so far.
If I can make a suggestion maybe it's not even that kirby needs to be difficult but instead it needs more complexities to its levels. You can still keep a game easy but add a level of complexity to completing levels that makes the game feel less sort of mind numbingly straight forward to beat by making the player have to engage with the various unique things in the level more. On top of being easy these games can often lead into having the problem of giving you a massive tool kit but not really giving you much to use it on. I kind of wonder if making kirby have a more branching path format might help or making it sorta like sonic where you can take different routes to get to the end might make the game feel better to play. That or even make more level themes that are sorta odd to play around with might help or give more interactables for various types of abilities or even a secondary challenge for more hardcore players. The "collectibles being nail bitingly hard to get" thing epic yard did seemed to work out for it to appeal to people who liked harder games from what I can tell. Like the sorta original philosophy of kirby wasn't just "accessible to new players" but that it was that but also had enough depth for more experienced players too, its the same philosophy Sakurai tries to apply to smash bros and most of his games and I feel playing more into that second part would really help the game considering these games are inherently beginner friendly with how you literally can fly over things. Giving Kirby branching paths and a way to avoid certain bosses or levels would help newer players with hard parts but would also make it more replayable for older players as well I feel. Im just ramblin with ideas tho, I think maybe revisiting the amazing mirror format and refining it so it's not as bad as it was could also be a way to do things, I feel that type of kirby game has a LOT of untapped potential honestly.
One of the biggest problems with Star Allies imo was how painfully easy the puzzles were. The past 3 games had great puzzles, but the puzzles in Star Allies were basically handed to you on a silver platter.
And the 3DS games also had the benefit of being single player experiences, with compact level design and the amazing addition of foreground & background. Star Allies removing Foreground & Background made it feel like a massive downgrade to me.
Star allies feels insultingly easy and it feels like the game is treating me like a baby while doing these puzzles
Everything is too obvious and simple
3:34 best joke ever
I really like this video. Lots of people will just tear down Kirby without giving any logical reasoning or mentioning the pros, but you did here and I agree with your points. I love Star Allies, but I really did feel bored while playing the story, and I think you hit the nail on the head with that.
Kirby going 3D is probably the only way to make the series fresh at this point
I’m one of the biggest Kirby fans I know and yet even I’m getting bored
To me Kirby don't need to innovate
@@sapofazbemechaebom1594 yeah but it’ll only get more stale
@@millythompsonfromtrigun98anime Kirby is good as It is
Everything New or Old puts a smile on my face
Kirby is Kirby
More Kirby is Kirby
And I love Kirby the way he is and the way he Isn't
The deep Lore, the cheerful design, the calm levels, the nostalgia
Kirby is amazing
I don't think it's the ONLY way. Super Star proves that the 2D formula can be used to create some very unique experiences with only a few minor changes. To review, Super Star essentially created prototypes for no less than six unique games including:
-A remake of Dream Land
-A map-based linear platformer
-An explorative treasure hunt platformer
-A platformer racing game
-A linear story-driven platformer
-A game where copy abilities have to be slowly acquired one-by-one
-A combat-focused platformer
And all of this was done using the same engine; proving that reinventing the wheel isn't necessary, HAL just has to find more creative uses for the wheel they already have.
Star Allies Haters: sTaR aLlIeZ wAz ToO eAsY aNd BoRiNg!
Heroes in Another Dimension & Soul Melter EX: Are we jokes to you?
Anyway, in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind seeing the Kirby series change its formula. I'm down for a Kirby game with a completely different formula. :)
I think Kirby 64 was a good change of pace while sticking to its roots. I also fricking loved return to dreamland.
Honestly, the Kirby series could really be spiced up if the devs opted to make enemies have newer, more unpredictable and challenging fighting styles. Rather than walking in a straight line and launching the occasional attack, they could actively evade damage and be tankier, as well as preform different moves in different instances. That would atleast make normal stages more engaging.
Oh my god I was thinking the same thing.
That's a great idea. It would be really fun to see.
Imagine a Waddle Doo actively evading attacks and countering with charge beams.
@@hughneutron8620 Or you having to time your stikes so you don't get countered by Blade Knight.
@@castform7
Bonkers inflicts stun on charged hits.
I hope the next Kirby game is a 3d platformer, it's astonishing how there hasn't been one yet.
Return to Dreamland was a good start for the Kirby games developed on the engine it came with. Triple Deluxe and Planet Robotbot were great. However, Star Allies (lore contribution aside) was easily the weakest of their efforts on the Return to Dreamland engine.
My guess what they can do is move onto a new engine and go back to being more experimental with the spinoffs; like they used to be with games like Mass Attack and Kirby's Air Ride.
I always liked Whispy Woods being in every game because it's like an iconic staple. A tradition, a symbol almost. Something that will hit hard to old fans.
Whispy Woods innovates more than Kracko does if I'm being honest. Kracko's biggest innovations were in Squeak Squad and Triple Deluxe. Whispy's biggest innovations include Flowery Woods and Clanky Woods. Flowery Woods being on level with Triple Deluxe Kracko (if not, moreso) and Clanky Woods being practically unrecognizable as a Whispy fight. Mecha Kracko is still recognizable as a Kracko fight, especially in comparison to Clanky Woods.
We all coming back to this vid cause of kirby and the forgotten land
The Series peaked with 64. Seriously why haven't we gotten combined powerups again? "Star Allies was a step in the right direction but not as complex or fun as 64." I wanna see what kinda neat shit can be done with all the new powers they added recently by combining 2 of any powerups.
because the game designer and director behind games like 64 has been missing since 2001 and a photo of him was only found this year in a obscure kirby's dream course guide book.
@@marx4538 That would explain it. Though it could also be the same problem Paper Mario had where Nintendo literally won't let them do anything with the IP lest it "hurt the brand". I say be more like modern SEGA which operates like Kalinksi era SEGA and let anything go. You get more fun games that way. Sure you get the occasional clunker but hey, it's better than mediocre games right?
While I can understand and agree with most of what you say, I personally feel like most of the fun from kirby games comes from the exploration and experimentation. sure getting through the main campaigns is easy but there's a satisfaction that comes with noticing patterns or discovering how powers and sometimes combinations interact with the environment (best done in crystal shards, kinda in star allies).
I don't really agree with the take on the side content and lore though. Arenas including alternate bosses and true ends along with other extra modes are well known driving factors of the series since Super Star (not to mention Milky Way Wishes which pretty much was the main campaign is one of the last ones you unlock) . And once you start piecing together boss descriptions and Easter eggs on top of the relatively basic campaign stories, it unravels an interesting world that is way more Lovecraftian than something this cute should be.
Oh yeah also it's cute, that's like the most important point. not one restricted to any gameplay style but important nonetheless.
Now he did say something very true "it ain't really front and center" the lore as complex and interesting as it is, is a side thing, not the core of the franchise
I can imagine an interesting concept for a 3D Kirby game.
Directional star shots, up to 3 star shots at a time dependent on how many enemies or objects you consume for it.
The tree fight could be really different, instead of it always dropping it's apples to try and hit you they could make the tree only drop apples if a certain thing happens. Imagine there being a plant that grows in the levels leading up to the tree fight that if sucked up can be used as a stunning/impact star shot. And they have a larger tank like enemy that you cannot suck up unless it is stunned. So the tree fight would consist of the tree swiping tree branches and jumping on you. But if you suck up the "thump plant" you can hit it with a thump star shot and stun it while making it drop apples for you to hit it with. This could be a nice way to make the game still Kirby but also add more difficulty.
Each place has a new object or plant that can be used for a special shot and let's you beat the boss faster or easier.
You can still defeat the boss without the objects but it will just take longer. They could also add a hard mode which is always available and disables the ability to beat the boss without the objects.
Technically DKC never really has gotten stale. Mainly due to how in the original trilogy, it keeps switching up the main kongs, keeping every new and unique. They also kept adding new animal buddies.
It's literally the same. DKC fans want to act like it's not literally the same formula
when the concept of moving on a third axis.
While i agree that kirby has become a bit it seems as HAL themselves know this too. They actively said that they are gonna do "the next phase for kirby" for the next mainline installment.
Türk müsün knk.
0:28 such a melody. LMAO
The "B Team" needs to make more games. They're the devs behind Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, and Kirby Battle Royale--two of those three are excellent, challenging games with unique art styles and new physics engines (and the other is Battle Royale). This group knows how to make a fun Kirby game that feels new and is completely unexpected. Kirby thrives off spontaneity and different artists' visions.
Need more Kirby Air Ride that game was the shit and in 3D
I really don't give a damn if Kirby doesn't innovate, I find the games incredibly fun due to concept alone and I feel he's had some of his best in recent years. The only real time I felt Kirby didn't really hit that mark was with the Dream Land games and Squeak Squad, but that's like a few games out of the rest. While I agree nothing would be wrong with trying to innovate (hell even the devs seem to agree), it's a franchise that doesn't exactly need it per se because the established formula is already fine as is. I feel games like Triple Deluxe and Robobot are fantastic games even though they use the same formula, but they're some of the best in that formula.
I kinda get what your saying but hal are kinda running out of ideas for the 2d formula and i loved these games but I kinda want something new but keep elements from the past game.
If you are fine with no change that is just like eating the same food everyday with just a new spice thrown on top of it
At one point you start to wish for variety
Dreamland 3 was amazing.
And we need a true 3D kirby game
"This steak is really dry and flavorless."
"Oh, but the broccoli is delicious!"
"When do I get to eat that?"
"After you eat the steak."
Interesting video. You definitely presented your arguments well. Here's my take on everything:
First off, while I get the example you were trying to make, I do think you *greatly* oversimplify the evolution of the series core gameplay up until to Return to Dreamland. Every traditional Kirby game from its first entry to Return to Dreamland had the same core gameplay but also had fundamentally unique level designs that make the levels in each game stand out from each other and featured gimmicks that do actually affected the structure of the games as a whole. Adventure introduced the Copy Ability. Super Star was several greatly different adventures merged into one. Amazing Mirror was a freaking metroidvania. Kirby Return to Dreamland was a modern take that served as an amalgamation of many of these ideas while also introducing new structures of its own. So and so on. We had the same core formula, but the gimmicks introduced with the games (with the exception of Squeak Squad) actually gave each game a unique identity of its own. It's really only after Return to Dreamland that the affects of these new gimmicks start to feel more superficial which brings me into my next point.
I'm gonna be frank here. Planet Robobot doesn't really break your argument. It's a great game but frankly overrated in terms of the hype it gets for breaking the mold. In the end it just superficially iterates on the core structure set by the truly revolutionary game of the modern era that was Kirby Return to Dreamland. At the time RTD came out, we hadn't gotten a traditional Kirby game on a home console in over a decade. So fittingly Return to Dreamland sought to be a grand return of the formula we grew to love but also saw to not only iterate and combine great ideas, but also brought strong new concepts to the table that gave it a strong identity. It was the first game in the series to have a truly involved plot and actually featured a hub where you could interact with a character that would be the key stepping stone for tying the franchise's lore together and being the canvas to further paint it. With Super Abilities, it not only brought spectacle but also used them to segway into the Another Dimension levels which would not only lead to great shakeups in the gameplay but also set the game up for its insane final act which the series had not seen the likes of yet. It added these new and meaningful concepts while bringing back everything we were familiar but bigger and better than ever. It was Kirby's answer to Donkey Kong Country Returns in being a game that brings back the old in a totally revitalized new image.
This game took a while to come out, but when it did, its structure proved to be strong. So strong in fact that outside of some spinoffs, it has basically served as the raw schematic that HAL has used for all their games since. And I think it's here that things *truly* got stale. Regardless of whether one thing TD and PR are the best games or not, they undeniably not only follow the core series' formula but Return to Dreamland in particular's formula and this is why the series now feels a bit tired. It's not just emulating one style. It's been emulating 1 specific game and as New Super Mario Bros shows, iterating one speciific game in a series, even when its a refreshing return of the classics, can only get ya so far. Robobot was fun but at the end of the day it's really just following in RTD's footsteps and I'd argue it regresses in some respects. The Robobot armor doesn't do anything mindblowing until the end of the game and feels pretty mundane throughout most of it. And while it has a lot of lore and a neat innate plot, the story isn't as actively involved and developed as RTD's was since Susie doesn't have particularly substantial interactions with you until the final act. Similar to what TD and Star Allies did. In the end, it still just felt like you were running along and you didn't have anything like a hub to truly embrace your progress or get more background info.
So what am I getting at with all this? 3 things:
1. I do feel, despite not jumping to the 3rd dimension in grand style, Kirby was actively evolving up to Return to Dreamland.
2. Return to Dreamland, not Planet Robobot, is the true revolutionary game of the modern decade.
3. The franchise feels stale not because it's using the same formula, but rather cause it's specifically using RETURN TO DREAMLAND's formula. It's easier to feel stale when you use one game's setup vs only going off the most fundamental gameplay of the series.
Having said all that, I no less agree that at this point, the best next step for HAL woudl be to finally take this franchise into the 3rd dimension. The climate would be perfect for it with all the expansive games in the industry making comebacks. And as you allude, it needs to actually feel like a grand 3d adventure. Not simply toy with it like Blowout Blast did. I do think Star Allies become a solid game after its DLC, but I no less agree that it really shows that it's time for the series to move out of Return to Dreamland's shadow.
11:38 YES! THANK YOU!!!!!
Maybe They should add a difficulty setting to the next games story mode or other modes. This would allow them to retain accessibility while still being able to pose some challenge.
No
I think the best way to innovate Kirby is to make it 3D. It’s been about 30 years since 3D gaming has been introduced and we still haven’t gotten a mainline 3D Kirby game, while most other Nintendo series’s have gotten 3D titles.
Looks like you finally got your wish! We got a 3D Kirby game.
Good thing the Wario Land franchise doesn't suffer about that, because each game (with the exception of shake it, although that's a good game) makes a spin on the formula, basic platformer, background and foreground level design, puzzle platformer, demi metroidvania, the culmination of the ones mentioned (minus the background one), 3d beat em up
Even though Wario Land isn’t a franchise it’s these games that was spun off from Mario Land games.
Honestly if they ever do make more 2d Kirby games
I kinda want it to be in the same style as Crystal shards where they had dynamic angles and mechanics
I would love to be a 3D open world Kirby game where you unlock copy abilities along the way to fight the final boss.
Agreed
I think a 3D open world game would do the trick. Something where you can ride the warp star around, find side missions, etc. Add puzzles that you need certain copy abilities to interact with.
I think the reason Pokémon is called out for being stagnant and not Kirby is due to the fact that Pokémon exists in the RPG category, which is one that evolving rapidly and always trying new things, while Pokémon takes one step forward, off of the cliff. Kirby games appeal to the same people that buy the New Soup games, it’s simple pick and up and play, and you know exactly what you’re getting into, for better or for worse. Does it mean it should avoid change. No of course not, but the majority of Kirby fans find comfort in having the same formula, just improved slightly from game to game. It’s why every spinoff since air ride has been 2D. Kirby doesn’t NEED to evolve like Zelda and Mario on the switch, it’s core concept will always sell, but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t.
About that pokémon thing even yet, other games have shown even the smallest changes can make the experience better.
Nexomon, a game that just got shipped on the switch, has a lot of little changes to it, like that wild nexomon can actually drop money,. Playing older games, especially Crystal right now, I constantly find myself having way less money then I should. I right now am at the steel type gym leaders, and due to not having a good enough Pokemon to withstand thunderbolt (I chose Pokemon that have a disadvantage early on for a challenge), I cannot buy enough great balls to capture the Pokemon that I do need, a mantine out in the sea, to be able to beat them. Yes I could use wooper, but like I said, I want this extra challenge because most of the games later on don't have this kind of luxury. Especially sword and shield.
Maybe it’s because gamefreak’s games hasn’t t changed at all
@@slug3982 it's definitely done some things to change up the game, but the problem is they haven't stayed with them period mega evolutions were like this very huge thing that everybody enjoyed. It was fun to think about what kind of Pokemon could get such a title, but as soon as sword and shield came out, that idea was scrapped for something much less impressive.
it doesn't help that the games themselves have gotten so easy, I could practically play the game one-handed while blindfolded and still get through the main quest.
@@ItsRetroPlanet I fuckin thought you watched the video?
@@slug3982 I have. your point?
Kirby epic yarn wasn't even supposed a kirby game, so.. yeah
thats one out of thirteen, doesn't excuse it
"Now THIS is every Kirby game in-between."
*stadia ad*
I think a Kirby RPG similar to the Mario and Luigi RPG series would be fun.
All excellent points. I wish they hadn't ditched the mixing copy abilities from Kirby 64, for me the series peaked around there.
You mean the quantity over quality system? Every copy ability system after Super Star Ultra shits on 64. Why? Because having a lot of copy abilities doesn't matter if they each have only one move attached to them.
Kirby games have always been way too easy hand holders, I understand they're children games but dear lord, give us some *challenge.*
Even though the game itself is easy, some games (like star allies) have hard modes, like heroes in another dimension. But I agree, they should add some more challenge
@Retendo yeah, fair point
Same here, mario is aimed at kids, yet some of the levels are fucking tough it's good.
I agree. Hopefully we'll get a main line Kirby game that adds more difficulty to it, like an RPG, or a Warriors like game, or a 3D platformer, just whatever works
Kirby triple deluxe was one of my childhood games, I agree with you here bro. I’d totally like some extra difficulty
A 3D Kirby game would be pretty cool.
NME: How can I help you King Dedede?
DDD: I need a Ridge Wallet to clobbah dat dere Kirby!!
I guess the idea is why change what isn't broken .
Because it's starting to get broken. Star Allies is the biggest example on this. I would LOVE some approach like Planet robobot, with metal woods not being static but rather a metalic robot who resembles a tree.
That’s absolutely true. If it did change, people would be upset.
This is probably why kirby mass attack is my favorite in the series
I think the big issue with this video is that it insisted that all kirby games are "the same", despite the fact this isn't exactly the truest statement. While the latest mainline Kirby game (Star Allies) suffered from this, pretty good chunk of Kirby games have entirely different things, such as no abilities in OG dream land, animal buddies in dream land 2 and 3, combo abilities in 64, Amazing Mirror being a flat out Metroidvania etc.
Nothing would be wrong with taking a new direction with Kirby though. Star Allies seems to be the last of Return to Dreamland style games. I wonder how would 3D Kirby look like.
“You don’t buy games for the side content.”
Me who bought SM3DW + Bowsers Fury for Bowsers Fury alone: 😐
Hopefully the 3D Kirby isn’t Blow out Blast 2
tbh I'd agree with your opinion for like... 80% of all kirby games. The worst about this failure to innovate is that HAL Laboratory has shown that they can innovate with Kirby: Planet Robobot.
The gimmick that is the Robobot was imo much more fun and varied compared to the Super Abilities or Hyper-Succ. Plus the fact that it can itself copy abilities help keep the Robobot moments fresh, and because it can't hover, the platforming "challenges" can be more challenging.
Another thing I love about it is how it uses its theme of forced mecanization to its fullest: almost all enemies by cyborg/robotic versions; food items are mostly cans and bottles instead of dishes, the copy abilities have a theme of being tech-y instead of nature-y, with Jet, Wheel or the new Doctor. Notably, Poison was added as a replacement to Water, with the plot justifying it by saying the Water Galboros have been "corrupted" into Miasmoros by the toxic wastes Haltmann Works dumps into the planet's water sources.
To reuse one of your examples: the Whispy Woods battle in Planet Robobot is completely different from all the previous ones. Instead of being stuck, Whispy's been forcefully turned into a monstrous drill quadrupeds, which runs about shooting rocket drills or throwing explosive hulls.
I'll stay optimistic and hope that the next title will change the current RtDL formula (while I love RtDL, Triple Deluxe and Star Allies have been kind of disappointing).
For how cute Kirby is, his fans can be super aggressive.
Waiting for Kirby Souls.
I think a dark souls mod where the player model is just kirby would be hilarious
They-
they uh
went with option 2
neat
Dude, Al. I love this video man. You should consider making more of these discussion videos. I know there’s dozens of other CZcamsrs who do this but I’d like to hear what you have to say about things
I love how you perfectly balance being funny and getting your points across.
Main line Mario games
There, argument over
I stan games like Kirby Air Ride
They should make more Kirby Air Ride
Remember when DK had a Game on the GameCube where you control everything he does using only a Pair of Bongos?
Wait a minute...
This OATMEAL is STALE!