Mini ceiling fan with intriguing motor and wind turbine potential.
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 07. 2016
- While browsing Banggood for LED lighting components a link to a 12V DC ceiling fan appeared. I wondered if the fan could be used as a small wind turbine so added one to the basket, whereupon a 220V version was suggested. I wondered if the motor was similar to a full size ceiling fan, so I ordered one of those too.
Here's a look inside the 220V version. It's quite a neat little unit and has a synchronous motor where the outer fan-blade hub has permanent magnets making it form the moving part of a motor (rotor) around the stationary section (stator) with the windings.
It generates quite a modest voltage when turned manually (or potentially by wind) at low current.
Notable features of this fan are that it is very quiet, surprisingly powerful, yet low mass with soft blades so fairly low hazard. The synchronous motor is bidirectional with a very clever directional start system based on a spring loaded rotating support stem that locks if the fan is trying to start in the wrong direction, but gives to allow the fan to build inertia in the right direction.
Here's a link to the Banggood page for the 220V fan.
www.banggood.com/220V-7W-Ultra...
And one for the 12V version.
www.banggood.com/DC12V-5W-Plas...
If you enjoy this channel you can help support it with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random motorised objects at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm - Věda a technologie
Somewhere out there there's an engineer who was probably quite proud of their design didn't expect anyone to be able appreciate it.
And one of them is me
:)
It's a very old design. My factory uses a synchronous drive system for a 'merry go round' type conveyor system
I know that feeling when you come up with something really cool but you know it's going to just churn in the background forever 😐.
I am actually one of them, it's like magic ;)
I can remember my surprise when I first watched a microwave oven in action: it had lighting inside and its turntable often started rotating in the other direction once you interrupt the cooking process and resume it afterwards.
You and [I believe] DiodeGoneWild have more or less explained synchronous motors to me [and many other viewers], and I thank you for sharing this knowledge.
I bought one of these for £2 in a HK market. Fixed it up in my office as a temporary measure. After 10 years it still working perfectly. It draws about 37mA (9W). It shifts an amazing amount of air! Probably the best value electrical item ever. You see them everywhere in the far east.
i have a bigger one...like 70 cm ....but it makes a hum noise......its working but its quite loud
also 9w
i forgot...mine is at 220v
The trick is to clip the lapel mic directly onto the beard.
Or the brim of a peaked cap.
+Godshole I'll have to give the cap brim a go.
xD
Or stick it to the hairline. That's how they do it at musical productions
@@bigclivedotcom 220v fan says page not found
I love the "There is a spring in there... I'll just take it apart more to prove it"..
I don't know why, but it just tickled me.
I like the mechanical spring clutch that ensures it spins in a specific way, very simple very clever.
First Poundland and now Banggood? Do you ever buy from places that don't have vaguely sexual names?
ebay
Why would anyone do that?
Of course he does but that's pretty funny.
Vagely?
says the man whose name is fuckhead lolll
A lot more engineering in that fan than I thought there would be.
I don't think that would make a very good wind turbine. It's far too small for chopping up birds.
get smaller birds
It's too slow, humming birds will be playing zipping around the blades
What if you live in an area with a lot of Colibri?
No it isn`t, you just need some RPM on that bitch and it`s the perfect blender ;)
They are one and the same.
I think it's the spring that prevents it from spinning in the "springy" direction. It then springs back and "kicks" it in the right direction - counterclockwise if you look from the top.
Love the bigclivedotcom written on the bench. Imagining benches stretching from Scotland to the Isle of Man with that written upon them haha
Clive I could listen to you all day, you have such a great way of explaining things that even I can understand.
The spring clutch is a light duty anti-reverse sprag clutch. For heavy torque the spring is replaced with ball or roller bearings on ramps in the bearing race to lockup in one direction and release in the other.
Sweet, I can put that fan in my rv then bang my head into it every day.
5000 rpm to the face will keep you alert on those long trips haha
+TacticalBBQSauce Too true. For general reference, a CZcams search for 'Skye Sweetnham ceiling fan' demonstrates the effect of head contact to a much larger ceiling fan. The noise of the impact is quite spectacular.
For reference, she was fine.
That's why they call it banggood. ;)
+godfrey poon I always think of some sleezy sex webshop when I hear the name banggood, it must be my perved mind :D
*****
I do too...
What a fantastic, fascinating design! Thanks for taking it apart and showing it to us!
In the Philippines they have fans like these everywhere. Almost hit my head on one in a small shop once too lol
Mr Clive, thank you for the recommendation. I watched the video at 4am after it came out. lying awake due to heat. now I have this amazing hum now, it works great. just need to find a way to not make my ceiling resonate. I did find that it doesn't ramp up and puts in a lot of force at the start. Swinging about quite eerily for a few seconds. once or twice even kicked itself in reverse. Good luck with the summer season and congratulations on your channel growth. I see your vids being linked to on many places on the internet (IKEA koppla)
Banggood: Good Electronics that Bang
Electronics that go Bang real Good!
xD
mharris1270 wow no duh
mharris1270 It feels like you are implying I give half a fuck about an old man that wants to be politically correct and is still on a power trip from when he used to control kids future.
You miss being relevant old man? You miss being able to fail billy because he mouthed off but still did good work? I bet you fucking do.
There's a difference between political correctness and wanting everybody to understand.
Political correctness is a method of speaking where every potentially insulting word is changed to something that has virtually no possibility to offend. This is an issue for reasons I won't get into.
Wanting everybody to understand something means that in the event of a roadblock between cultures, such as a faulty translator, everybody can get the same idea and not misunderstand. For example, if a mechanic is explaining to you a problem with your transmission, and you don't know what a transmission is, he'll say that it's the part which gets energy to the wheels. In this case, not everybody shares the same word "bang" with the same general use, so he explained that bang can be used to describe sex in English.
Audio surprisingly good, and I love the rolling shutter on the fan...
The £20-25 ceiling fan from Argos is really good. It has been around for decades and where ever I have moved I have bought the same fan, other than the pull cords changing from time to time the blade pattern and design has never changed! I bet most people in the UK have the same ceiling fan, I just thought I'd mention it :)
I was waiting for him to review this. It came out a while ago, and ever since I wanted him to talk about it.
when I was around 12 I wanted to build one like this but one that you could put in a regular light socket for instant ceiling fan that just screws into an overhead light socket
George Pratt did you manage anything?
Good idea!
That actually exists as an antique search youtube for Vintage Light Socket Screw In Ceiling Fan
Its cute. Pretty cool how it uses that spring clutch mechanism to control rotation.
Here 4 Years later: Still the best review of a mini ceiling fan
I believe you may have solved my boats summer ventilation issues. Many thanks
Bought one of these soon after watching the video. Has been in regular use summer and winter and has just failed with a dodgy bearing. I think it was less than £10 delivered so pretty good value.
Thanks for the description of the spring. I think it would make a great clutch mechanism.
They were used extensively in the early 1970s in Burroughs Series L machines as clutches.
Rolling shutter is the phrase you were looking for :D
Nice mechanical solution to help the motor decide. ;D
I have also seen this in the Banggood web pages. I was also very tempted to buy one of these to take to bits. I have no use what so ever for a fan like this but they are cheap enough to play with. I was looking at the 12 volt one however. Interesting to see what kind of motor that has! I think Banggood stays in business because of people like us.
That motor start tech is absolutely genius.
It is, and also slightly bizarre. Like they discovered it accidentally.
Looks like one of those little tent/camping fans that used to overheat when the batteries got low
It's called rolling shutter; the camera is capturing the frame one line at a time instead of all at once. Produces jello on vibrations and fast motions; and weirdness on rotating objects; it's also the reason why sometimes flashes (from other cameras, or lightning) sometimes cover only part of the picture, and fast blinking lights make stripes.
edit: also, it can produce some interesting effects on vibrating strings (like on a guitar)
4:19 I think your mic may have picked up some GSM / CDMA interference there...
You sure do have a huge... beard, mine can't compare LOL.
Man that's a nifty fan... I live in a bus, I might get a few of these thanks for letting me it actually does move air.
Lol, i kept seeing this opaque blue fan on my CZcams home page, and when I seen that bigclive has three new videos I touch and behold their is that opaque blue green fan !!!!
Your explanation is clear to
Greetings:
All of the microwave ovens that I am familiar with have turntable motors that alternate their rotation direction each time by a similar characteristic with a similar spring action that can be overridden by hand intervention.
This is similar to thos old dynamo bike lights in the 70s!
The magnet was on the inside, but same kind of finger concept.
Never tried hooking one up to the mains, surprising really, as I was doing poppomatics with all manner of electronic components on 240v at age 11!
The best bangs were 2sb56 germanium transistors, and the purple thermisters they used to control the bias!
That's for another day!!!
A neat trick for those clip on mics when your not on camera is to get a cap with a bill on it. You clip the mic to the bill of the cap which puts it into a perfect place to pick up your voice without possibility of clothing or beard noise. Just a thought to help your channel. Love the videos lad, so keep em' commin'...
Cutest ceiling fan ever lol..
Did you mean 5.5rps? So 330rpm?
Oops! Yes, that's what I meant.
Saved me asking the question ;-)
5:00 Clive is drawing an Arc Reactor!
Bearings fail pretty fast in them and when they do my god they get hot
I have just ordered a 12v fan for the shed! =)
thats neat. i have now learned how the number of poles in le motor will set the fan rotation speed
Some of the cheaper squeeze dinamo powered flashlights have a similar winding for the turbine
I think this fan would be great to take camping also.. as long as you have a big tent... I have a 10 person tent I bet this would work great in...
That's really clever.
As a wind turbine it might power a suitable home made LED lamp. Something like a single LED filament strip with a nominal 60V drop with a bridge rectifier and a 10mA constant current source (basic circuit would have 2 transistors and 2 resistors). A free energy night light.
I like the RunDMC background.
Looks like a cool thing for my granny flat
Clutch spring used on many typewriters in the day.
It's tempting to rig up the 12 V one to run at bedtime when camping, with the cheap thermostat switch control that you reviewed in a previous video. Then it will turn off when the temperature cools down to the comfort level.
that thing about the microwave spinning in any direction pisses me off for some reason, lol
Just think of it as a bit of a game.
If it spins clockwise, you have to eat the yoghurt with the spoon in your right hand. If it spins counterclockwise, left hand.
+Godfrey Poon no! jk sounds fun
Only once.
+Godfrey Poon You don't actually heat up yoghurt in the microwave do you?
Mine always starts in the opposite direction it last started in.
Very common here in the philippines
there's a stand, desk/wall fan and the original versions "the ceiling type"
I shook my self on the plug when I used the ceiling fans as a wind turbine
Don't worry, your beard can act as a muffle.
I have just bought one of these to convert into a wind turbine, the plan is to use it to keep the electronics alive during the night due to the long scottish winter nights.
A wind turbine is not terribly reliable unless it's very windy and the surrounding area is very flat.
@@bigclivedotcom its to keep a solar ardurover alive on a beach.
hey Clive the audio is even better than normally
Ah, that damn rolling shutter.
I have a couple of the 12v ones. they ARE quite good and quite a bit more torque than I was suspecting.
I am interested in the OTHER one however. is there a 110v version of that one?
WILL the 220v one run on 110v? some devices do work this way just at a slower speed. ??
Nice video,the calculator part is funny :D
Neat motor Clive. It's like a squirrel cage rotor blended with a good old fashioned drag cup tachometer. I must possess one! :O)
Hi Clive,
FYI the strange effect is called rolling shutter.
keep up the good work!
Wouldn't the rotational speed be 5.5 RPS (second), not RPM?
It doesn't look very efficient for either a ceiling fan or turbine! A change in the blade design might make it much better for a turbine.
Great video. See you already noted you meant rps instead of rpm.
I now dream of hooking it up to a standing bicycle excercise thing and generating power off an array of these.
woah that is an awesome dream. hello i am from the future. did your dream come true?
I've come across a similar 'metal fingers' thing like that in a wind up led torch!
You could build a tiny dynamotor and use the higher voltage AC, rectified to provide a high tension supply for a valve/tube radio.
the "dopler" effect you talk about is called rolling shutter and causes the warped effect. the blur simply motion blur caused by the low shutter speed of the camera
I like the new mic setup lol! Maybe its just me but it seems better :D
dropped my phone on my face goodnight 😒
That's a pretty ingenious design. Thanks for sharing the disassembly. Unlike some of the other 220Vac stuff you reverse engineer, I'd expect this to run on 120Vac, but I'm trying to wrap my head around if it would be the same speed, or just with less torque. Yank checking in.
It's a synchronous motor so if it couldn;t make speed it might just keep jittering and cogging.
If it's 120v/60Hz I assume if it did spin, it would spin faster?
I would expect the speed to be dependent on the ac frequency, since that is what creates the alternating field, so 60hz should make it spin faster than 50hz
This will give low RPM generation and once retified a battery load will regulate the voltage and current. The blades are optimised to push air but will generate some power if the wind is strong enough. Interesting to do some tests charging a power bank, I suspect this would stall the blades. Cheers, Andy
Andy Reynolds i have some experience with that flat blade design, it seems to be better at higher RPMs
I was working on computer equipment (Burroughs Series L) in the early 1970s which used coiled torsion springs in clutches. IIRC the driving member was a shaft down the centre and the driven member was a collar on the outside. A tang on one end of the spring protruded and limited on the clapper of a solenoid. The other end of the spring was connected to the collar. When the solenoid called the tang was released and the spring gripped the shaft and coupled the driving and driven members via the spring. To release the clutch the solenoid was dropped, the tang caught on the clapper, the spring released and the drive disconnected.
Looking at the hand holding the fan strangely looks like CGI.
What sheister is selling solar powered calculators in scotland?
He also reviewed a water turbine, so maybe we'll get to see a rain-powered calculator some time.
By the way, i like your channel very much ☺
I bought one of these fans recently after watching your video to check its viability as a generator and here is what I found:
1. Resistance of the coil is quiet high ~ 2k ohm
2. The fan could produce very high voltage > 300v when spinning at 500rpm. Spinning by hand can easily produce 150+v
3. current is however very low. 14ma short circuit. also 14 ma when charging a lithium battery and 10ma when charging a large 50v lithium battery.
This last point was an eye opener for me because I have always assumed that current linearly increase as the voltage drop. I was expecting that if the fan could supply 10ma @ 50v then it would be supplying 100ma @ 5v. Clearly I was wrong.
I then checked a solar panel that I have to see if it exhibit same behavior and sure enough my 5v solar panel supplied 32ma short circuit and also 32ma when charging NiMH battery and around 26 ma when charging lithium battery.
but anyway back to the fan, best case of 10ma @ 50v is 0.5 w which I am not sure it's worth the effort.
However I plan to buy a traditional transformer to see if I could indeed get 100ma @ 5v
5.5 RPM? Did you mean 5.5 RPS? That did not look like 5 RPM on camera.
Alex Barlow shutter speed of his camera can obscure the speed of moving things
Well, yes. But rolling shutter won't have such a drastic effect at 5.5 RPM. That's just shy of one rotation every ten seconds.
Alex Barlow I also think so, with such rotation on camera then it can't be 5 rpm
Actually, I get 3000 cycles per minute (@50 Hz) divided by 9 equals 333.333 RPM or 5.555 RPS. I'm sure he just mis-spoke.
I get the 3000 cycles per minute (50hz * 60 seconds), but where does the 9 come from?
I have an electric clock that uses one of these motors, except that the rotor is a disk that is surrounded by the intermeshed fingers. It also has a spring-ratchet thingy to reverse it if the clock starts in the wrong direction.
That a common construction for small synchronous motors. You'll also find one rotating the plate in your microwave, but it has no specific direction, so it will go in a random one each time it is powered up.
A couple of years ago I read about homemade wind turbines and the best electrical engine was said to be from a treadmill.
greetings from Texas. would like to you make a dc wind generator from that fan. great for camping.
these fans are everywhere in south east asia i don't think how good these ceiling fan compare to normal ceiling fan it's so good even long period of time under that fan doesn't make you feel sick
I love your videos and I have a question - where did you get that screwdriver?
;)
Thanks
So on 60hz it would run faster?
what if you make it run on 100 hz
Lavalier mic works fine. High end rolls off a little but a good result.
That motor reminds me alot of the brushless outrunner motors i use for RC aircraft, you should try ordering a cheap one with an ESC and a servo tester from hobbyking or something like that :-)
As this is a synchronous motor does that mean it would be able to supply/absorb reactive power? I suppose you could put a capacitive dropper on it because its not as if there are any isolation issues in the power supply. Might cause the fan to overheat though I suppose from the reactive currents.
The mechanisms that allow a shaft to turn in only one direction are known collectively as "sprags" (in the U.S., at least). These are also a very common component in automatic transmissions.
I could hand you a very small ring-shaped assembly that looks similar to a bearing, and then tell you that this particular sprag allows the transmission to function properly (in the forward direction) in 2nd or 4th gear... and then tell you that it's capable of withstanding 700 horsepower (approx. 540 KW). In other words, they often transfer torgue directly to the output shaft. (Although... by "directly" I usually mean "eventually, through the planetary gear system".)
The fact that you are examining a tiny little "spring sprag" is very entertaining, so thank you for the video. However, I consider the idea that a spring is applying constant friction, however small, to the shaft as the fan is running to be a poor design.
Sprags are one of the most interesting reasons that auto transmissions do what they do, which are a device that I enjoy taking apart to study - much as you do with electronics. ;)
In this case the shaft only moves briefly as the fan starts and then returns the shaft home to a static position when it's running. I was reading up on automatic transmission recently. A very clever system.
bigclivedotcom
- I just rebuilt a Ford AOD recently, from the middle '80s. It was fascinating to see how this uses a single planetary gear to generate 4 separate forward speeds and one reverse.
Of course, it does use 2 different input shafts, 2 drum bands, and 4 clutches to DO that... but it's still very fascinating. ;)
I often wondered what determined the direction of rotation in of the microwave turntable. I had thought it was determined my the machine in order to cook more randomly or to preserve the turntable mechanism. Now I know that it's just random and a consequence of the type of motor it seems much less sophisticated!
I was particularly interested in the 'you might also like' links at the bottom of the bangood page where I found a small parabolic mirror cigarette lighter. the video is hilarious, apparently you can also use it to light some leaves and bbq your corn for lunch on the university lawn :-)
Interesting electric motor and very quiet. I don't know if it's available any more, since this was over 5 years ago.
I think they still sell them.
That rotor is set up exactly like the rotors if car alternators.
is the coil left to right to left with roughly equal numbers of turns in both directions? I would have thought it would be wound left to right (with many turns) and then right to left (with very few turns) - electro magnets work much better this way.
Fan-tastic video. 😂
some testing with these shows they really dont like to put out any current, even with a slight load the voltage drops to nothing, i can barely get 10ma out of it so I have a AC transformer coming that should step it down to the point I might be able to get some useful current out of it.
I would be interested to see this start spring action happening...
Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its state of motion (this includes changes to its speed, direction or state of rest). So, basically, stayingstillness!
its so adorable I need to find a reason to need one so I can buy one!
No reason required. But 220V plus is probably required. I don't have a 120V supply to try it on here.
hey what what do you do as your job i dont have a job but if i did it would be something to do with computers or pharmapcueticals
While moving back and forward in the busy times it may not be much use but do you have or have you considered getting a Varriable Transformer (typically known as a VARIAC) @bigclivedotcom.
Handy little things for varying AC supply voltages, naturally it can't do frequency variation but in this day and age that is often less of a problem (can be for AC motors)
I do have a small variac somewhere, but it's so buried under technical stuff at my old workshop that I'd have to really dig to find it. But that would be quite handy to find.