FBI Demands User Data From Signal - Here's What They Got
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- čas přidán 29. 10. 2021
- Read the article on Signals website for yourself
signal.org/bigbrother/cd-cali...
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And remember everyone, we are NOT abolishing end to end encryption, if your worried about criminals using it, then go live in North Korea where its already banned. Dont sit there and scream think of the children, so that you can Rip more privacy away from honest Americans.
You're not the brightest bulb. A cop's job is to throw as much shit on as many walls as possible. Their whole modus operandi is "I know you done diggly did it, Just have to findout what" 🤣🤣🤣
Most of you support the Antichrist (trump) stop pretending you're good
Feds are communists! It took me few months to learn what happens on the texas border...
If this was Facebook:
"Dear Special Agent, here's a dump of all the user's data in plain text. Oh, and he just broke up with his gf lately, so easy on him"
I bet they would send a 1TB gzip of data...
Hahahaha lol XD
@@comrade_rahul_1 dont be confused by this being a zettabyte, no no
this is one zuckbyte, many many magnitudes higher than a measly zettabyte
@@OmegaMusicYT *casually zipbombs the FBI*
@@destructivforce2894 thats such abgood joke
I installed signal. Now just need to find some friends so I can talk to them on signal.
That's the roughest part
I've being trying to convince all my friends to use signal, but mom doesn't know how.
@@RDRF_SB13 mom can't be bothered, I converted my dad though
Can't post my phone number lmao
@@MrTheKamir I've genuinely tried, I live 2 hours away from them, they don't seem to care about privacy. They are old though.
3:34 Something I noticed you need to understand: these subpoenas are very likely created to apply to any business they send them to. They might send them to a utility company, phone or insurance company, etc. They aren't expecting Signal to have that information, they are in essence demanding everything that Signal has on that person.
Yea exactly, or they might just say all that knowing they won’t have that data but on the off chance they do they still want it as it could hurt the investigation if the don’t get it. I imagine it is more of a leave no stone unturned type of deal, but I’m not a lawyer so what do I know 😂. However the dude in the video saying this is why our law enforcement is inept in this country is more of him just being misinformed or just showing his own ineptitude.
@@charleystello1822 but they still want the data. The guy in the video is not misinformed you are the one misunderstanding him. What he means is that companies like signal care about individual privacy however he says that the government only cares about privacy when they are included. Why should signal be forced to give up private information, regardless wether this involves a criminal investigation or not.
@@FocusTokus he seemed to be getting a chuckle of out a pretty ordinary document over its details for someone who wasnt misinformed, "why would they have their utility bills" etc, they are but they arent expecting it was the point, your the one misunderstanding
These are also sent as bot mails, basically sent through to a vast majority of companies at the same time.
@@FocusTokus Yeah we know Signal doesn't have the stuff. The point of the comment you replied to is that the guy in the video was saying like "Heh why ask for all this stuff when a peek at their website would tell the feds they don't have any of it." The feds send this list as standard when they're trying to spy on you.
The reason the subpoena asks for any available tax ID number, utility bills, payment info, etc., is because either A- they're just trying to cover ALL their bases, or, perhaps more likely, B- they're using a kind of "cookie-cutter" form letter that sits in a file, ready, and can be quickly pulled out and adapted with pertinant info like name, address, phone number, etc., and sent to "any social media site," or something like that.
The answer is probably both
Both. It's just organizationally more efficient to have a single format. They'd send this same thing out to a utility company, insurance company, retail shop, and the IRS. Only the IRS might get especially stingy.
@@jackr2287just need to do due diligence. Always ask and never know when somebody will surprise you.
Both, really.
This. Still funny af though
The Unix timestamp has to be the most formal middle finger i've ever seen.
I dunno what that is, but still a well-mannered way to drop F-bomb to the Feds
@@HafifSyukra it's the number of milliseconds since 12:00 AM January 1, 1970. Completely inexcrutable unless you convert it to a useful format.
@@stinkylizard its seconds not milliseconds
isn't it called Unix epoch? Its the amount of seconds since January 1st 1970?
@@darkpenguins9594 it literlly says millis
Easily the best Signal ad I've ever seen
I don’t have anyone on Signal but I just downloaded it for the lulz.
👀 unless its all glow theatre
@@Ultrajamz anything is possible in this absolutely uranium level glowing world
That's so true :D
@pm4rcin snowden kinda glows. if he were a threat why did they make a movie about him and give him so much publicity?
The Trollier response: Give the Unix time in binary - ALL of the account information *exactly* as stored on server.
Let's be honest they probably couldn't figure out what Unix time was.
The subpoena makes more sense when you remember that you only have to follow the letter of the law, not the spirit. They have to include everything they might possibly want on the off chance that signal has it, or else signal doesn't have to give it to them.
spirit of the law,
@dh Depends on case law.
If anybody doesn't know what that means, basically the precedent set in previous cases similar or identical to this.
The US Court system mostly functions off of case law, which is why "landmark cases" are such a big deal, and superior courts will kick a case back down to a lower court if there's a bad ruling, as to not set any bad precedents.
like when some Google employee didn't give out user data because the agent made a typo in the email they were requesting :D
The Unix timestamp response suggests that Signal doesn't even store the time zone from where the user last connected. Happy to know.
True! I didn't realize that! Thank you!
Almost every database stores timestamps in UTC and the conversion to the user's timezone is done on the client side. The conversion is done by the user's device OS probably. It's not done for privacy it's just good software architecture. Timezones are a nightmare to program for.
@@cheffromspace9771 With UTC time, can you tell which time zone the user connected from? Eastern, Central, Pacific? It tells me how little of Data Signal actually collects.
@@harishannamalai8669 That's the point of UTC: that everyone has the same timezone. Also, the whisper protocol requires you to know at least the destination of the message so you can deliver it. Signal just keeps the message as long as they need to deliver the message. While on server, they have access to both sender and recipient as long as none enable sealed sender.
It's way harder to manage different time zones in the database. Unixtime is way simpler
We need more apps like this, so that it becomes "the new normal' - privacy, security, and respect for the user.
Agree.
That that will not happen - most people don't give a shit about privacy.
They want convenience.
@@igorthelight "all else being equal" most people want privacy. It's just not a priority for most people, but that's not the same as not giving a shit. So we need more polished, higher quality FOSS. Also, some people falsely believe that you can't have privacy on the internet, and some others falsely believe they already have privacy with, say, WhatsApp.
Yes, but its not as profitable as apps that stores your personal info, because they can sell that info.
@@4.0.4 Fair points!
So there can be more predators safely harassing children…
What's scary is that it was probably just a form letter, and that's what they ask for as standard procedure. Now imagine a similar letter being sent to Facebook...
Here is 10 MB of plain text!
@@simonwillover4175 more like: Here's a 1ZB of plain text of everything!
You can't obtain content from social media with a grand jury subpoena. You can obtain subscriber information (name, address, email, birthdate, SSN, etc), billing information, IP addresses and connection logs, communications between the company and the user, and device information. You need a search warrant to obtain content like DMs, FB posts, shares, etc.
It was probably a boilerplate letter to collect as much information as possible. They aren't saying they believe Signal has all of it, they're telling them to provide whatever they do.
And if they had investigated just 2 minutes beforhand, they would have known that there is no useful information stored, it is all explained on the website...
@@deineroehre Regardless, taking a company's word for what they may or may not store would be stupid.
The easiest way to avoid someone stealing your user data, either by governments or by criminal organisations, is to simply not have it.
This is exactly why I chose to not have friends and not use personal messaging apps!
Now, does that matter considering I’m commenting on CZcams? Of course not! But it’s all about _convincing ourselves_ it matters, right?
@@abubakrakram6208 don't you like, massage your friends?
@@abubakrakram6208 now that's sad
@@tacticalguy6473 You do know you can talk to your friends in-person, right?
@@tacticalguy6473 I'd rather hang out with them irl tbh.
Chad Signal vs virgin WhatsApp
Signal male
@@som10812 laghed out loud, cheers
Signal Grindset
@@som10812 lmfao
@@som10812 lol
I’m actually floored that the ACLU is helping Signal. The ACLU seems to have chosen sides over the past couple of decades, not generally the side of freedom.
How so? They seem to pretty consistently fight for freedom. The aclu, institute of Justice, eff, and a few others consistently fight for principled stances, but the indoctrinated don't like it when that freedom comes at the expense of the partisan issues they've been programmed to hate on.
As a librarian who actually gives a shit about protecting patron privacy (lots of people are rightfully frustrated with being tracked and don't want the government to have access to their personal data) this is great to see. I've used signal for a while, but it's nice to see some proof that they are doing as they claim
The government is the people, the people should have access to the peoples data.
@@thefaculty3419 The government is not the people anymore, the government are evil shills taking advantage of the people, who do not deserve your data. You sound like a fed.
@@thefaculty3419 the government is no longer the people. It's government vs the people nowadays.
@@Bromon655 the government never was the people
@@thefaculty3419enjoying the taste of that boot?
"Do they seriously think people are giving all this information to Signal?"
No, they don't. They just include everything and the kitchen sink to get as much data as possible. They list everything that they could possibly have, however unlikely.
Exactly. While the story is pretty fun, the letter is obviously meant to just be a catch all for any data. It repeatedly says if available
Yeah, they probably sent this letter to dozens of companies.
Didn't apple try to subpoena way too much information from steam?
@@thundersheild926 And yet the feds were basically at the point of falsely calling bullshit on Signal not having that data. They're apparently so accustomed to zucced sites and services having that kind of data, that they flat-out disbelieved the idea that Signal would not have it.
They for got gamertag, highscore and favorite dance move
The reason why the legal document asked for things that neither Signal nor any messaging app would have (credit card info, employment records, etc) is because if Signal is asked for something it doesn’t have, it can just say that it doesn’t have it, and everyone moves on. But if Signal has something the prosecution didn’t ask for, then they don’t have to provide it, and the prosecution misses out on evidence. It is much more convenient for lawyers to write up a single generic document for any online service a suspect may have used, and send copies of it out to each company, than it is to waste time and risk errors by researching what each app does and asking just for relevant data, for no gain.
Exactly, the moment the guy went on the tanks and guns minirant I knew he had 0 clue of how any of the Feds proceedings actually work lol.
@@-ragingpotato-937 Absolutely. I watched the video to learn about what happened. Glad I could filter out the guy's rhetoric to understand what was actually happening here.
He's allowed to have his opinions, of course, and the FBI aren't known to be the nicest kids on the block, but in this case everything seems to be by the book.
agreed it's this document is just the catch all purpose with zero risk
like how typically cops try not to tell you why there doing what there doing because its safer to say nothing and have a the procecution the governments lawyers figure out what exactly they did wrong and then the officer can fit there story around that because if the cause they used in there probable cause search is invalid whether it be ill informed cops or legal loopholes or they straight up misjudged the suspect
what they say can be used against them the same as you
if there are alot of reasons to detain or search someone they don't legally have to tell you why and not all of them are legal
all encryption can be broken. the nsa is already on it. never underestimate your opponent
@@cagneybillingsley2165 well kinda you can make encryptions that can't be solved without the key within the lifetime of the earth with current technology so it might take a hundred years to develop advanced computers to crack it in a human timeframe like a lifetime or something
basically alot of encryption on top of software and os without backdoors built in
plus limit the tries to like 3 or 5
for Max security build a machine with alot of redundant parts and build it like a black box with anti tampering measures to brick it if they try to access the hardware
these are really simple compared to going to jail for the rest of your life for the crimes they can find proof of on that hardrive
hell I'd make a virtual ram drive so you have to explicitly save the session or it will be wiped when the computer turns off plus trap shortcuts and links just in case they get you while your logged in
It's best to give the dates in the form in which they are stored, i.e. unix milliseconds. That way nobody can accuse them of providing incomplete or altered information.
4:50 The list of demands isn't inept or arbitrary. Once Signal can't provide most of that, the feds will likely try to compel Signal (and similar apps) going forth to comply with Know Your Customer law, under some minutia of the wording of that law, even though Signal isn't Fintech.
"Your honor, as you can see here, Anon rated Signal with five stars, stating the following: "Good shit". This very clearly shows intent, and is why i think Anon should be thrown under the jail."
The feds are Fake and Gay.
Usually but not always i think.
@@fireredtheredfire1050 You forgot that they glow in the dark.
@@DarkVeghetta lmao yeah
under the jail? damn, i thought being thrown in jail was bad enough, but under it is pretty harsh
What an odd subjective experience that would be... getting thrown under a jail
Is there like a pocket dimension under there? Do they shrink you down? Or are you just violently stuffed underneath, like some twisted death penalty
Asking the real questions tonight...
Imagine feds being able to get datetime from unix timestamp
I think they gave UNIX timestamp on purpose to mock the normie fed, i kek'd
They will have to forward the email to the smarter feds, thus creating clogs in the system.
@@TheNinjaDwarfBiker same here
i imagine they won't know how to turn unix time to normal DD/MM/YYYY system or i think it was MM/DD/YYYY in the US
@@fitmotheyap
May i ask you how could you do this ?
I looked at source code of something similar but its just uses a function in another file.
@@xrafter unix time is typically the number of seconds that have passed since the Unix epoch, which is an arbitrary date chosen as day 0 in this counting system (iirc it's 1970-01-01 at 00:00)
Unix millis is the same just in milliseconds (just add 3 extra digits).
Thanks for keeping me updated about the investigation/pressuring of signal!
Signal’s Records Officer must be a sweet job: a little less busy than the Maytag repair guy. Plus, for that sweet company trip to Californiastan, he probably only had to pack his court-shirt and an empty manilla folder.
“All of your guns, all of your tanks, all of this power and authority that you think you have, is not more powerful than math…” based as fuck
Also you can't rewrite the laws of physics.
@@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 say that to isaac newton. Guy invented gravity and now we cant fly
This even true when you replace "math" with "meth". Drugs are winning the war on drugs.
@@GAArunabh that's because declaring war on drugs is as stupid as trying to kill someone by pulling his hair
@@GAArunabh because the war on drugs wasn't about drugs. It was just to arrest black people and hippies
I think the feds just have a form letter they send out whenever they want info from companies, because I think most stock exchanges and at least coinbase requires a tax id/utility bill paid in your name for verification
Pretty much. They need to have that, otherwise it wastes time.
Shut up bird
Sadly it's not even the exchange's choice to ask for it, it's required due to the Patriot Act, or more aptly named, The Tyranny Act.
@@hedgeearthridge6807 yes! Thank you for expounding on that point.
They don't lose anything by asking for those even though they most likely don't have it. I don't understand why in the video he pretends it's stupid. What if they have it and they don't ask, then they might miss critical information.
This man really just read the entire subpoena except for the two words, "if available". Lmao, they aren't idiots who don't know what Signal is, they just ask for everything so that they get everything.
Good to see that some level of digital privacy and freedom is still being made possible by people around the world.
Seems that lately I’ve seen more and more people, both private and corporate, realizing that this status quo is ripe for change and they’re taking steps to be at the forefront of that change.
It’ll be a terrifyingly brave new world, but I think I’ll take that over our current stagnation.
They will never intercept my carrier pigeons with encryped usb sticks caerying my messages to friends that short circuit after the message is read.
*Air drone heard hovering outside basement window
Or you could just send coded letters?
dol t you use encrypted FM radio signals?
Ghana has entered the chat
Mirror's Edge reference?
Kudos to Signal for being this solid. For now anyway.
Thank lord its click bait thought they sold us out
@@rsyoutube9252 the thumbnail should've told you enough about what happened
@@ninjaorange5061 no it didnt
@@rsyoutube9252 Thank lord they us out? Wut?
@@ticktockbam He's thanking the lord that this video isn't clickbait. That Signal REALLY did stand up to The Feds.
Nothing makes me want to use signal more than knowing they don’t even have the data that the FBI considers standard operating procedure. Why does Facebook need to track my “correspondence”
This is a better messaging service ad than anything I have ever seen before. Congrats.
The unix timestamp format is there because they are legally required to provide data in it's original format (because formatting the data could potentially give way to changing it). They would not be allowed to nicely format the dates even if Signal wanted to. So it's not like Signal did that because they wanted to, they had no other option.
They _could_ provide both original and formatted, but why would they?
I wouldn't have anyways
I doubt this is an actual rule. If you take that literally, they would need to provide that data as binary data. Or worse, a representation of their segmented hard disk.
So wait. If I'm asked for a PostgreSQL timestamp, I need to provide the 8-byte encoded value instead of the human-readable ISO 8601 format? Do I also need to make sure null-terminated strings include the null character? Do I send floats in binary format cause most base 10 representations will introduce rounding errors?
OP's argument sure sounds hella dumb once you start applying it literally.
Nice one! I love that, especially since now these people will ask wtf this means, and they will have to ask experts to learn that this only tells them when in UTC the User connected forst to signal and when last
I guess the feds expected Signal to have the perfectly normal ID sign up requirement like CZcams or Facebook.
@Rlaziken Anyone that calls Facebook “Meta” is cringe. We should just collectively bully Facebook by not allowing them to change their name.
@Rlaziken [sensible chuckle]
@Rlaziken no the entity behind Facebook is called meta. Facebook is still Facebook.
@@beansbeans96 Once a Zucc always a Zucc
@@beansbeans96
Smells like fish, tastes like fish, looks like fish...
My FBI agent has never asked me how I'm doing, so we're breaking up! >:(
Aww, I’m so sorry :(
"Those who sacrifice privacy for security will receive neither"
Here’s the thing: what they were asking for isn’t what they expected to get, they likely just listed anything that *could* help. Legal papers are complicated in that any slip-up in the writing could get the investigation completely killed for malpractice.
THIS, just THIS, it is better to ask for everyone possible, then to ask for specific things and potentialy missing evidence.
If they request every possible data the company can simply say "we dont haev that data" and move one.
BUT they have to saythat for every piece of data requested.
While if you request only specific ones they do not have(or would not) provide anything more, missing potential evidence
Fr. The only idea this gave me is that the guy making this is inept because he thinks this "gives you an idea of how inept law enforcement is in this country." There's so much wrong with this I would end up writing an essay about his stupidity, so I'll just leave it here - A LEO didn't write up that document, it was some Lawyer. Even if it was a LEO, it would have been filling in a bunch of blanks, with the original template being written by a lawyer.
@@DrymarchonShaun the point of the video is to show how signal is an amazing application that doesnt track shit
imagine this was a honeypot and they just did this to bait people into thinking its secure
@@cyprezz_ Signal is open source (unlike whatsapp) so if they were doing something they claim not to, it should be visible there.
I swear, California is like the teacher that'd walk past a fight to tell someone to spit some gum out.
The FBI is not a part of California. It says Central district of California on it because that it the organization that the FBI must work through to get this sort of information. The FBI sidestepping the court and asking directly would be an unusual use of federal power and may be viewed as an overstep. If the court of California were to refuse to make this subpoena that would almost certainly be viewed as an overreach of state power to refuse such a direct request from the federal government
California is America's cesspool.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo I feel like the whole of the USA is a cesspool
@@danielteuma311 not wrong, but calif is the sludge inside that cesspool
@@kusada3035 tl;dr while I tend to agree with most of what gets preached over here, everyone needs to fucking chill.
I feel like california is about as much of a cesspool as anywhere else, but the people here are the ones who tend to complain about it the most and often times the loudest. the way I see it is that we got molehill problems. granted, molehills are definitely problems that genuinely warrant action, but a lot of people here act like they're dealing with mountains. they're not wrong for wanting to take action, but they act like it's the end of world as we know it sometimes. it's annoying as fuck and dilutes whatever positive message or outcome that could have resulted.
I love to see services that don't actually keep your info!!!
How do we know that they’re not controlling Signal?
did you even watch the video? "controlling" signal doesnt give you any control because everything is encrypted
@@modz7675 according to signal. Maybe this entire thing is just a law PR stunt to get you into signal?? Hmm
look at the code since it's open source
@@balala4641 ooo good idea
@@balala4641 can you really know if the binary was compiled from the source code provided if you didn't compile it?
The toughest part when you switch to Signal is when you have to convince most of your non-tech friends and families to switch to Signal.
My strategy was ignoring or delaying responses to non-Signal messages. It worked.
@ One person said, people that care about you, people that really wants to talk to you will switch. It's as easy as that.
People that care about you will take you to the doctor and get your mental issues treated, not comply with your unhealthy paranoia.
@@SpecterNeverSpectator Looks like having an Open-Source E2EE is now paranoia.
@@w1z4rd9 Not if you are the youngest person in your family and any “bright” ideas will always be a result me of me “looking up stupid shit” on the internet. My opinion is almost never valid unless it’s a known universal fact.
I knew Signal was MVP but god damn, 3 letter bois got pwned hard again.
rip tiny hat people
The Waco reference was legit
I'm pretty sure that subpoena uses a template that's in the Field Office/Resident Agency drop box. That's why it's got the kitchen sink listed for user data. Because Federal judges and prosecutors have such a cozy relationship with the DOJ almost every subpoena gets rubber stamped regardless of the fact it's literally identical to the last 10k with just a change of name and address of the recipient/respondant.
5:05
You're missing the point. They're asking so broadly because they can. Not because they expect to receive it. If signal has any of that and don't comply they're in deep trouble. If they just ask for what they expect to get and they get that signal doesn't have to worry.
looks like a template tbh, they probably sent it out to multiple companies and just replaced the names
@@danavram8437 Seriously that's all that is. Some agent just copy pasted a template because paperwork sucks.
It's broad to cover anything, they do it on purpose and if they don't get what they want they'll "investigate" you. Kind of bewildered that he thinks they're stupid.
If you dont mention it then you wont get it so they say everything they can to make sure they get everything they can.
@@danavram8437 iollll kkk llkkl kl lll lol l lk lol LL lll l l klk l lk l l lk l lk LL k l lk LL LL k l llll LL LL LL lll lol LL LL lll lll l lk LL lllll lll llkllkkk LL l l l l l lk l l l lk l lk l l l l l lk lll l l l l l klk LL LL LL LL l lll l l l l l lll l l l l lk l l lll LL LL lll LL k l l lll l lk LL l l l l lll LL lllllll lmmmmmll,LL,mppplpllllllll lll lllllllllllmmmmmlmmpmppll mll
I like this channel because it reminds me that I'm not the only person left in the world who cares about privacy.
Talking about that, don't use telegram.
The other day someone "related" to a random weeb group I was got murdered, no clue since it was just some stupid weeb group; my account related chats and any weeb group I was got wiped clean; and I mean, everything, private conversations, everyone who was a weeb... only few non-weeb people were left.
Can't say why, but no doubt someone messed up with those records with certain criteria at telegram side.
Either way that's terrible security.
Exact reason I just subscribed
@@egonzalez4294 You're making a lot of jumps without any real proof. This being said, I haven't heard good things about Telegram.
@@egonzalez4294 don't believeit
@@Gandhi_Physique Well they're better than whatsapp, and family members know that
I just found this as part of some research... Thank you for laying this out. And, nice reach to Waco. 😔❤️
one of the few CZcamsrs who say what they think and has integrity, thanks to this video I'm gonna switch to signal and get my family and friends to also switch
That's right, you don't give glowies your info, you run them over with your car, like a wise man once said.
Terry Davis?
@@sontapaa11jokulainen94 yes
@@sontapaa11jokulainen94 the one and only
My boy Terry
Thats what you do
I'm sure WhatsApp also claims somewhere on some website that they have "state of the art encryption" but they'd be able to provide all the information the court asked for and probably a lot more too.
Signal on the other hand doesn't just claim something, they prove it with their open sourced code.
@@NonsenseNinja Really? Can you show me on the source code of WhatsApp exactly where the encryption is coded to be end to end with no backdoors or (lizard)man in the middle?
If you can't prove it with the source code, you're just talking out of your arse.
@@NonsenseNinja even assuming that's true whatsapp's source code could've and most likely was altered
WhatsApp was good before Facebook came in
@@a1phamalestud WhatsApp tried to take over my phone. I couldn't even delete or force stop the app until I turned on maximum battery saver and turned off my data. Then I was able to use Google file to delete that crap WhatsApp.
@Aapo Lehtinen That is one step above my current level of conspiracy paranoia.
To be honest, the subpoena is probably a prewritten form that they just put what they wanted into. It's designed to cover a wide variety of sites and businesses, and they probably were not expecting Signal to have all of it - although I doubt they expected them to have this little.
*_but how do we make money without tracking and advertising to people?_*
Signal: _Simple. Don't make it about the money, and keep your app small and refuse to add a bunch of junior developers that don't really get paid to do anything but sit in meetings all day._
But it is about money, you dont get to choice. It costs money to run compute, it costs money to use bandwidth. Signal will be gone in a few years, due to not being able to maintain costs, or they make money off you.
And trust me, they not going anywhere.
@@draken5379 if you keep that client-to- client-side... not really.
@@draken5379 they accept donations though
They collect user data and sell it to 3rd parties. Either that or they are entirely financed by certain 3-letter organizations.
@@installshieldwizard3017 how do you feel I'd rather use the terminal over you?
I wouldn't be surprised if after this the alfabeto Bois would legally require companies to collect private information from its users if they want to operate within US borders. "Land of the free" brothers yeeeha
(Granted most of them already do cuz selling your info is essentially free money, but those who truly care about privacy will not stand a chance which is overall sad)
If that happens I'm just uhh... Time to apply for Maltese citizenship
they already kinda expect websites to do this already. its only a matter of time before every site has to comply with a "citizen internet protection and anti-cybercrime initiative act" law that makes the #1 selling point of these apps and sites moot.
@@umamifan You need to understand and remember that even if that became the case, there will still be a million other ways people could go about protecting their lives and privacy. It’s trivial to setup your own servers to host messaging clients, and where you do that, on who’s network, and what steps or prerequisites are involved to connect to such configurations are basically endless, sufficing to say this will be a non-issue for those who want it bad enough, and just a very rude and crude human rights issue for the rest of society going forward...
@@MikeOxlong- Until they forbid any self hosted encrypted messaging platforms, block any non-us hosted platforms and ban VPNs. (AKA China 2.0) :D
@@ivailogeimara Not gonna happen. That cat was let out of the bag far too many years ago...
You may not understand it, but the internet as you know it literally comprises only a mere 3-4% of what it actually entails at any one given time. There are so many other protocols and platforms that run over the copper (or light) and at different frequencies or wavelengths that are completely invisible to standard routing technology that it’d make your head explode if you knew what they all were, how they worked, and what the mean for communications. And in the future this will only progress, unless society as a whole regresses completely...
The summons seemed like a default template designed for social media applications.
GAH! That zuck-face was terrifying.
I just realized this is basically counts as an ad
and i love it
The sarcasm is soothing to my soul
Your profile picture and your nickname doubles down the sarcasm
That name is nuts!
Does the FBI even realize that not every tech company doesn’t siphon information from their users like it’s candy?
Facebook: here's phone, friends, job, bills, posts, call history, etc.
Signal: hashed phone, take it or leave it
Of course they didn't, signal is an outlier amongst exceptions
Tucker Carlson said an inside source fed showed him his signal messages. They got them somehow.
it was through pegasus spyware, it's not signal collecting data
*Burning house with kids inside*
Public: Isn't that illegal?
FBI: It's national security Karen!
Pretty sure it was the ATF that did that
Yeah that sounds like what signal users would plan
@@ShinyMajor Yep, using the barrel of a tank as a giant straw to pour the gasoline through the wall in spite of the prying eyes of the media.
@@0megazeero you mean "t3rr0rists"? That's not even proper 1337
@@ShinyMajor The FBI have had houses "mysteriously" burn down while they were investigating the home owners.
"You just run them over. That's what you do. " ~ Terry A Davis
💀💀💀
They glow in the dark
You can see them when you're driving
Rip the best programmer in the entire world
Fuck glow-in-the-dark CIA enwurds
“Please don’t disclose…. Could impede…”
Yeah first thing I’m doing is calling that phone number they redacted and letting the victim know.
F The Govt
And I now have a new messaging app! Thanks for this video!
It's a boilerplate subpoena, which means almost every other app they send one to is collecting all that juicy, juicy data. Click-stream GO!
It seems like Mental Outlaw doesn't understand what boilerplate is
Less of a inept, more just shotguning the demands and seeing what sticks
Kinda like how job hiring requirements list stuff like; 15 years expiriance, and 10 different degrees for a "Entry level Position", even for janitors XD
@@UNSCPILOT In the case of job descriptions, unrealistic requirement lists is inept. Makes it impossible for applicants to self select for what jobs they're actually qualified for.
To be fair... The list of data asked is probably a copy paste they use for every cases.
It really doesn't matter if you are even if you are a good citizen that doesn't do anything bad the government still wants to invade your rights to privacy
"All of your guns, All of your tanks, All of this power and authority that you think you have; is not more powerful than math" epic smart guy beating the big bully moment
What? If the government wanted they could just introduce legislation/regulations, mandating that certain types of companies store certain data. Signal would promptly either stop being in the US, or theyd comply with new regulations like 100% of businesses in the US.
@@greed864 I love Telegram for this very reason.
@@greed864 Well then the users could encrypt their stuff themselves. If they're really serious about privacy, in principle they don't need a middle man amyway. With that being said, screw any kind of government that mandates data collection to companies: sounds like a bad case of fascism.
@@greed864 Im proud to be an american where at least i know im free
@@scrung And I won't forget the men who died who gave that life to me!
Imagine the feds thinking "is this Unix thing a drug?" lol.
I bet they had to do a Bing search like “is Unix time real?” To start getting to the bottom of it 🤣
The FBI relies on Linux, a modified fork of UNIX. Soo ig they know, because some shit like windows won't be able to handle the tasks which they do.
@@anonymouscyborg5610 Most feds use Windows for a reason.
@@anonymouscyborg5610 you'd think so. But you'd also stink that they can Google and read yet they still sent this letter
hey! its a long time since i saw you. Did you and alyx helped humanity to recover yet? since the supression field is down for quite a time now.
I decided to start supporting Signal monthly after watching your video.
Signal. We are so proud of you. Thanks a trillion!
You're one of my only sources for news like this, so thank you for doing stuff like this!
he is such a legend
This is so true.
Commonfilth
highly recommend seytonic as well
@@zach2830 Seytonic is good for cybersecurity news, but he's not as based as Mental Outlaw. I don't only need the news, I need solutions.
Scary part is that facebook would probably be able to give them 90% of what they asked for
No , probably 150% , it will probably include your parents and dead grandparents info+ blood type, DNA test , favorite anime, food , p*rn also your first word , and more 😂
In the edit history of the subpeona pdf, there's probably a "change [Meta Inc] to [Signal Inc]" comment somewhere.
@@m_elite that's right. since algorithms can predict behaviors you don't even knew, based off your habits, they'd really provide more than 100% of the user's input.
Even scarier is that not WILL they do so, but they will do so without a protest (maybe a make-believe protest in public, but in reality just do it).
That's a boilerplate. Customizing each and every subpoena takes time that's best invested in other stuff so they just send a standarized one that cover all the bases.
What the hell is wrong with the government? Mindblowing...
Reminds me of a recent story with Telegram except FSB requested decryption keys and recieved a pair of rusty iron keys along with a letter explainig "that's the best we have".
Meme or legit?
@@plm-fp6nu Legit
@@penggrin damn
@@penggrin Sauce?
3:30 No, they don't seriously think that. They cast the widest net possible _just in case_ that information, for whatever insane reason, _is_ available. That's because if they don't do it with the initial subpoena going back later to get even more evidence is a serious pain-in-the-ass. Government is excellent at bureaucracy.
Yo shout out to the ACLU. My respect grew.
It’s a form letter , and Apple apps DO collect your data as per each ToS per app as well as Apple
I refused to KYC at coinbase because they literally wanted my employment history and exactly where and when and how I acquired my funds. You should do a vid on that glowy entity.
The wonders of KYC. It's all for your own good, only criminals need privacy. You aren't a criminal, are you?
@@MrEdrftgyuji talks like ccp
I've been considering an account at coinbase. You just presented a strong argument against. But are any of the other crypto exchanges supporting fiat legal tender any better?
Honestly, I thought that KYC only required a valid ID. Even banks don't ask for your employment history and how you get funds, unless you have over 10,000 dollars or so.
based off of the replies in this section i can clearly see that NO ONE can see sarcasm anymore
Mental outlaw godlike upload schedule
Wow I didn't know signal was a thing. great add!
This is like the raid on Mullvad, best advertising ever.
The subpoena request is a bog standard request that the Feds send out to pretty much any company whenever they request information. I have had to process a few of these myself, and they mostly look the same. Although some requests (mostly from state/local govts) will be very narrow (eg. emails relating to a specific user/domain only and nothing else, or only relating to access information -- eg log files), most of the time they just expect you to send whatever you have or the intent is communicated outside of the formal subpeona (eg. via email). Whenever I have had to process these I just dump everything into a tarball and let them sort through it. lol
:)🌙🌜
As far as all the bizarre and seemingly random stuff they're asking for in the subpoena, as an attorney I can tell you that they don't actually think Signal has that stuff. What's going on here is that a long time ago somebody wrote this subpoena to be as broad as humanly possible and cover any type of document that could possibly exist, and ever since then they've just been copy and pasting from it and changing the names to fit the current case. Almost all legal documents start out as mostly boilerplate, and then are slightly modified to fit the current situation. This particular document was probably composed as quickly and lazily as possible by a secretary, or a law student interning at the district attorney's office.
That feels, if anything, worse. It's like the government is slowly slipping into a dystopian surveillance state not because of some grand plan but because they just can't be bothered not too. Personally I object to being ruled by evil, but I find it revolting to be ruled by stupid evil.
They weren't necessarily being lazy... but I agree with you.
I wouldn't call saving time while also covering your bases lazy. But yes, the letter itself isn't really that unusual. The unusual part is how little information Signal collected and stored from their users, which is unfortunately rare.
Laziness + long-term interests = efficiency
glad that my shop told me about signal when I first arrived there then
They should have gone to court and handed a blank piece of paper
One of the reasons for sending the time as UNIX time can be the fact that the data is stored that way. So you can't be punished for manipulating the data as that is the way they were stored in your database
Since every important Server in the Internet runs on Linux anyways, the storing with Unixtimestamp is absolutely logical. You can later do the math and convert to a human readable normal DD.MM.YYYY, if needed. If you would store in other formats, you would have to store the information on timezone and daylight saving time.
Messing with feds is an obligation.
More like a duty lol.
@@WhiteFox-ce8ep Do you know the meaning of "obligation"?
@@Jupiter__001_ Yes, but I think duty sounds better. My opinion
@@WhiteFox-ce8ep "More like" implies that "duty" is somehow more accurate than "obligation". "I prefer duty" would be more appropriate than "More like a duty". In any case, this is all totally irrelevant.
"When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
"please do not notify the user about the investigation"? that's creepy... isn't it against the law to let people protect themselves?
Thanks to your channel I've come to the mentality of using whatever means necessary to make the feds seethe, cope and dilate as much as possible.
This looks like an app that I would definitely feel comfortable using. And it's so refreshing to see a company actually protecting people's privacy
Ikr, Foss forever.
They might start to force signal servers to collect all data they do see, like the IP Addresses and all the time stamps.
Then just move the servers to another country. The FBI has no authority outside the US.
Almost every country mandates collecting logs like IP address. Doesn't matter if your company's HQ or servers aren't there.
It's open source though. If that happens everyone will see it and spread the word, and someone will fork it, and that's it. The FBI would be chasing its own tail.
@@talkysassis No, the answer then is to make it peer-to-peer. You can't regulate servers that don't exist.
@@jan_Kapije How do you do anything without being exposed to the internet? You realize the client-server model uses the internet too, right?
They definitely thought for sure signal were lying
I love that the date is in Unix milis. That truly emphasizes the argument so great. :D
Since this is a court order made at the request of the FBI, and not by the FBI itself, it's probably good that Signal didn't troll the court any more than just providing the dates in Unix timestamp format. We don't want them to be held in contempt, fined, or end up on the shitlist of a judge that may one day preside over an unrelated proceeding of theirs in the future. (That last one is important: If the FBI decides they want to compel Signal to put some backdoors in, it's up to the court to reign them in.)
So the government compelling a company to compromise something they have created is in essence compelled speech, and thats a big fat first amendment no no. So yes, the gold rule of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" when dealing with a federal judge applys here. No federal judge in the country would let that happen, regardless of who the subject of the investigation was.
@@MorRobots No speech involved here, compelled or otherwise.
@@CFSworks sorry I should have clarified, if they were told to compromise the platform/app. They can offer to do so, but they can't be compelled to do so.
@@MorRobots Ah I see. But that still wouldn't be compelled speech. It might be a violation of 4A rights, but not 1A. The most relevant law that might enable this, the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, has never been challenged on 1A grounds.
@@CFSworks so search for: Being Forced to Code in the Technology Era as a Violation of the Being Forced to Code in the Technology Era as a Violation of the First Amendment Protection Against Compelled Speech First Amendment Protection Against Compelled Speech
By
Adrianna Oddo
It's a solid, and well cited legal opinion on the goverment (DoJ, via FBI) on compelling a company to alter code they authored and it being a first amendment violation. Remeber Speech is a broad term here.
Regarding the phone number: As you already mentioned, Signal probably only stores a hashed version of it in their system (which is referred to as "Account" in the response table). Given the phone number provided by the FBI the hash can be easily calculated but not the other way round.
It looks like a form letter they likely sent to every compunication company on his/her phone.
I laughed out so loud when you said: "seriously what is goin on on the *left coast*...