I finally found the perfect wood finish
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2023
- In this video I test 4 different finishes on white oak and find the perfect finish.
#woodworking #woodfinish #woodfinishing
The sprayer I used in this video:
amzn.to/40s0djg
Th finishes I used in this video are:
General Finishes High Performance Flat
Diamond Vogel Aquinity
Gemini Coatings Evo Eclipse
Renner 718
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There wasn’t any mention of durability, which is what I’d be most interested in. The fact that the Renner didn’t show up at all definitely makes me question if it would hold up as well as the others. Visuals are great but it’s only one facet of this.
@@bobbray9666I agree, but I’d like to see it tested
As a professional painter I've spent a fair amount of time on painting forums. Until recently I've been married to Sherwin Williams. Paint Talk Forum posts really praise Ben Moore Command. I tried it and loved it. I was told that as much of an improvement of BM Command was over SW Emerald urethane, Renner was that much better.
Do you have to spray the Renner or can you brush it on? @@doug.ritson
Emerald and command are trim paints not made for cabinets. They don't hold up to chemicals and hand oils. Just because you can doesn't mean you should
No hard wax oil will be as resilient as a good 2k lacquer. The reason that HWO is so popular is because of the ease of application and ease of maintenance (in the sense that you can add another coat after a quick wipe with a damp microfibre. That means it is really good for those people who don’t have a dedicated (ultra dust free) spray area or are working on site (eg floor restoration). 2K lacquer products are very resilient but require skill/experience plus that dedicated spray area.
It is also fair to say that some lacquers can look plasticky whilst, currently, those 2K HWO do not come in a gloss finish (I think Rubio try and get you to buy a product which requires another coat on top of the “Monocoat”). Be a little patient for good news in this area.
2K HWO products were very expensive. No more. I watched the Wood Whisperer video on his HWO tests and switched to Natura Onecoat. Not only is it, in my view, equally as simple to apply and just as good looking, but I save a lot of money by buying a Natura over Rubio. I can only suggest that you try it and see for yourself.
If you ever use renner for a painting project use their 851 for top coat and their 688 as a high build primer if needed. Between 10/20 sheen. Or 643 for raw wood primer. It’s a game changer for cabinets.
GF makes a DEAD FLAT waterbased topcoat. Include that one in your next try to see how it compares to the Renner. Also, remove the tape for the last view to see the edge where the GF ends and the natural begins right next to each other.
I would like to try that too
I use the same, very good
I would love to hear what you think of ceramic nano-coatings. Lincoln Street Woodworking released a CZcams video a couple of days ago, and it would be interesting to know if your opinion matches or differs from theirs.
I have some, just never used it. Mainly cause I don’t want to wait for the other finish to cure before applying it
A scuff test (cross-grain, 100-grit, standard weight) and a red-wine test (1 tsp on the wood for 15 minutes, wipe off) would be a good addition/followup video. Thanks!
Thanks for the idea!
I really like the general finishes flat.
I’ll have to try it out.
Thanks for the video and the input.
^durability question is great.
can never get enough of comparisons on finishing. btw that island is gorgeous Jason!
Thank you
I just found your channel and it’s fantastic! I’ll be goin down this bunny hole all day . Great information and very well explained .
Hey man this is awesome. Did the finish with the catalyst have to be emptied between coats so it didn’t set up in the machine?
Depends on a couple of things; weather and manufacturers recommdations. For me, I dumped what was left and thoroughly cleaned my sprayer. When the 2k product dries it's super hard and would ruin your machine.
It did not only because I was able to apply the second coat within 2 hours
Thank you for this video I have been wanting to try the Renner myself so now I'm definitely going to try it.
Total boat Halcyon works great. Use gloss for build coats and then finish with satin
I used general finishes satin on my mahogany dining room table tops been holding up fantastic for about 4 years now
In Europe (Netherlands) we have “Trae Lyx 2k ultra mat” this finish is a 2k waterborne finish. Super durable (2 coats) and really invisible. Fantastic product
ive used the renner product on my garage shop cabinetry… Great product easy to use. I used flat
Rubio invisible protector (plant based resin) has zero sheen, is easy to apply, has excellent durability and is the most natural looking/feeling product I've experienced. I'd be keen to see that added to your next test
Great Review Jason,we do interior and exterior painting and have used a lot of different products depending on what we are doing and the project requirements but once we used Renner wood coatings,we never looked back.Renner has great products
I would like to see a water test done on these finishes
Rubio is a game changer
Superb, thanks for sharing
I use Minwax Polycrylic, which I love. Or Campbells water white conversion varnish. I think it's called Magnamax! White oak and ash are my to favorite woods for cabinets and tables etc . If I had to choose it would be the Polycrylic. 30 years ago I redid our kitchen, I removed a wall and put a bar 2" x 16" x 8' ash. 3 coats satin polycrylic. 30 years, 3 kids and 2 grandkids later it looks just like it did the day I installed it!! Durability is thry the roof!
I love Oak cabinetry and want to try building some of my own upper and tall storage cabinets in a shaker style (or maybe Euro edgeless style). What thickness do you recommend using for building oak cabinets, for say a laundry or work room? Do you recommend staining all the pieces prior to or after complete assembly. I'm relatively new to woodworking, thanks!
That 718 is awesome
Thank you. This was instructive.
You're welcome!
Great video 👏👏 very helpful, thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
Really cool. After watchoing your video and otthers on the Graco, I got one. Over the years I've spray painted a little, but, it would be awesome to hear you inner dialog as you prepare to paint. Limit overspray on the tools, and gun. And then clean up. Thanks again!
That was a very good test. As far as durability you can rest assured that that 2K is going to make quite a difference on its ability to stand up over the years. I use a 2K polyurethane and its bullit proof
One of the biggest disappointments from many youtube videos on woodworking is the way they finish products. I have never had durability with any hardwax oils. It's nice to see someone actually finishing products with a high quality and more durable finish.
👍👍
I used Rubio on my kitchen counter. Love it. Did poly on my bathroom and have been dissatisfied with the performance
Great video you should try Bona raw finish
I fell into a bunch of white oak and I'm debating on a finish that won't give it an amber, golden color. It's just not my taste.
It's good to know I'm not the only one hunting down different options.
I don't have a sprayer so I'll have to test out the GF against Waterlox Truetone and see what I prefer. Thanks.
I used a Renner 2k product for my maple countertop 2 years ago and it has held up really, really well. I used a satin finish and it still has the same sheen, no dull spots at all. I sprayed with the Kremlin AAA, but I now have the Graco Quickshot as well. General Finishes now has a true 2k series called Enduro which I want to try. All of their products that I've tried are really good.
I would like to try that as well
Did any of the mfg’s recommend a sanding sealer coat before applying the topcoat? I use GF’s water-based Enduro 2K CV on high traffic pieces, and have found it to be quite good at maintaining the original look of the raw wood.
Nice comparison, Jason~! For the effect you're looking to have, I like the Renner as well. The Gemini gave the wood a plastic look...almost like the plastic veneer used on DIY furniture.
Agreed
Love the island. I am assuming you did the vertical grain cab doors/drawers. Pls confirm these are white oak with same finish as the end piece which appears darker.
Yes please do another video on finishes. All I ever see is rubio, which is fine, but I would like to see some more.
Jason- look into Loba Easy Finish and or Loba Invsible. The invisible line is as natural as wood can be almost as if there’s not a finish- but wears really well. Love your new sprayer too!
With the General Finishes if you want to go flat do that as the last coat. Otherwise first and second coat use gloss or semi gloss. This was told at a seminar that general finishes put on and he recommended putting the first coat on generously since the wood absorbs the finish and allows you to sand off any nibs, brush strokes or uneveness. It has something to do with the flattening agents they use, so it’s recommended that flat is the final topcoat if you want matte finish.
I’m looking at the Renner it almost has a pinkish hue, not sure if it’s my screen playing tricks. All three are very close overall. The High Performance GF can be brushed on and it’s water based and very forgiving. I’m not a huge fan of foam brushes, some people swear by them. I’m also a fan of semi gloss and gloss finishes, so take what I say as a difference of opinion.
The island looks nice!
Been following you now for a little over a year. I’m setting up a shop and am curious where did you obtain the tops or the bench with dog holes and aluminum side rails?
Hey there. Super interesting. could you post a link for a source for the Renner and the Catalyst? Thanks.
From what I saw, I'm in agreement with your take. I though the GF finish was the closest to Renner too, before you even mentioned it. I've had very good luck with GF conversion varnish, which is a 2k finish. Stuff is bulletproof, easy to work with. Be interesting to see how the GF 2k poly compares to Renner.
So very cool to start with. Agree with others with regard to durability. Could be wrong but I would think that the manufacturers should/would provide data on that topic? Would also think that any finish that's two part and has a hardener "should" protect well? Interesting and it seemed to shoot well. Good stuff as always, thanks!!
how about a liquid test on some of these vs the Rubio natural? curious how well the Renner holds if you can hard even tell there is a finish
I’m looking into a painting system for cabinets. Do you think airless is to fast or to much over spray? Would you rather use say a turbine hvlp for painting cabinets inside of houses? What’s your opinion?
I'm going to be using a butcherblock countertop (store bought from HD) what finish would you recommend?
I don't intend to cut directly on the surface I plan on using a cutting board. I talked with Carbon Method people and they recommended their ceramic finish if not cutting on it.
Nice watch!!
Jason, another great one, thanks! That Renner is nice on the White Oak. For anyone familiar with mahogany: I have two unfinished Mahogany doors (solid mahogany rails and stiles with impact glass) and the manufacturer... WOULD NOT SUGGEST anything for finishing... insane. What do you think about any of these for Mahogany versus the white oak?
I was about to go with Rubio MC Natural as well, trying to retain as much of that Mahogany color but also for relative ease of refinishing in the future.
One door faces East, has some cover, but get a few hours of sun 9-11am usually, and the other faces North and gets zero direct sunlight, just reflective (which still wears).
Another finish to try is Total Boat Halcyon. It is water based, and it to makes it look like there is nothing in the wood. This is what Input in our butcher block countertops.
Beautiful island! I'm currently building a large frame for a mirror wall for my wife out of a dark wood. She also wants it to be as natural as possible. Do you think this would work for that?
any recommendation for a supergood and natural looking finishing method for OUTDOOR benches? I've tried tons of clear varnish and stuff from hardware stores over the last years.....and all(!) the results dont last long. In fact i have to re-do it about every year!
Great demonstration, did you look at any of Total Boat's products.
What is cleanup for the gun with renner?
Great video, thank you. Did you have that sprayer turned down to the lowest volume that seem like a lot of overspray coming out of there?
Not the lowest setting no
Nice submariner!!
I wish it was a sub. It’s a Seiko mod that just looks like one. 🤣
Hey Jason which tip do you use for water based clear coats like the Renner?
I like the 208 or 308
I had the same reaction to color….. almost couldnt tell there was anything on it.
I think you would have what you’re looking for if you did three (3) coats giving twice the drying time in between coats and sanding with 320 grit but using a cork block for the sanding.
It would be really nice to see a test with water, ketchup, and other kitchen hazards.
How protective do you think the finish is? It does look incredible (or basically invisible).
Also, wonderful island, are the slats on the sides purely decorative?
Yeah I'm interested in the durability and not just how it looks. I've use GF matte water based poly a lot and have been happy with it but the flat version looks like my next poly finish.
To my knowledge it’s the most durable of all the ones I tried. And the slats are decorative.
Just curious, how many Festool track saws can an individual use at one time ? Do you team up with a partner and do synchronized events ?
Curious about the protection the Renner offers compared to the General Finish? Time will tell. But for what you are looking for… it seems to be the clear choice.
Still drooling over that sprayer. The island looks gorgeous.
Thank you Angie!
When you say "natural", does that mean raw wood? Or is that Rubio Monocoat in the "natural" color? I found that a bit confusing since the description says "4 different finishes" but it seems like it's really 3 finishes vs raw wood.
Given your recent Sherwin-Williams Gallery video, I’m surprised you didn’t try it again since it also comes in a clear
Saving that for another video 👍
This is fantastic stuff Jason. Renner looks awesome - did it feel good spraying it airless? Also, do you know if any of these (most of all Renner) will give you any yellowing over time?
Airless is how they recommend spraying it.
@@bentswoodworking Oh good to know - I thought cabinet folks did either HVLP or air-assisted. Thanks for all the testing!
Are any of these finishes food grade? Great video...
Does the Renner have to be sprayed? I love how the island turned out, beautiful.
I asked myself that!
It says yes but I have heard people have brushed and had good success
Cost comparison would have been great since you said you use Rubio Monaco which I know is very expensive, but especially for kitchen cabinets.
So the hardeners for these 2k urethane’s contain polyisocyantes which can cause some health issues. Gloves, spray suits etc are recommended with these types of chemicals. It may be water based but the catalyst isn’t and can be nasty. Please do your due diligence when using products you see online.
I'm surprised Rubio wouldn't be durable enough for an island? Isn't it made for flooring?
For simplicity I would stick with the General finish. It was so close to the two part finish, I don't think the slight difference in appearance is worth the extra effort of mixing a two part finish. But that is just me.
Thanks. Looking forward to zero sheen video.
Great video. Thoughts on laying Renner on top of Rubio Monocoat? Can provide more protection for high traffic areas where you want the color from Rubio (i.e. Cotton white), but protection of Renner.
Why not just use Renner instead of paying for rubio and then coating over it. Plus I don't think other finishes will adhere properly over a wax/oil product.
Not sure. It would definitely have to be fully cured
I was under the assumption that more sheen means more durable as the more uniform surface tends to both repel water and light better. You mentioned that you were searching for something that was more durable, so this begs the question, was it?
Thanks, that is a great compare vid for finish. Nice cabinets too. I await the new vid.
Random guy walks past shop. 'how many track saws do I need?' Shop owner '5, but I had to buy 1 more plunge router so I will get the last one next month.' 😂
Thanks for watching!
I can’t find Renner 718 anywhere in order to purchase
There are a few store online that sells it. I bought mine from tlfinish.com
Use Vermont finishes.
I hate rubio personally, I use it but It's SO expensive. Toss some ceramic coating on top, and it becomes like 175$ to finish a 12/4 table + legs. The ceramic is nice, not too much sheen and waterproof and stands up well. Use it on TOP of whatever finish you have if it's a hardwax oil type thing. Personally, I like the semi satin but higher than matte finish myself!
First, HWO isn't necessarily the cheapest finishing option. The primary advantages are ease of application and time savings. Also, there are other HWOs on the market now that are just as good as Rubio, but 1/2 to 1/3 the price.
The cermaic is the thing that makes your combination so expensive. Just use an automotive ceramic, which is cheaper than all these products aimed at woodworkers. I have no data to back this up, but IMO they perform as well, if not better. Auto ceramics have been around much longer and are designed to go on things that can cost 6-figures and sit outside. You're over-paying for marketing. That $175 can easily be cut down to less than $50 with virtually no difference in performance.
Can you put a glass of ice water on your samples? And maybe something hot like a cup of coffee?
The problem with lower sheen is that the higher the sheen, the harder the finish. So, while a low or no sheen finish looks more natural, it will not be as hard.
Warning a Royal Oak wile spraying oak is a power move 👏
It would be if it was actually a royal oak. 🤣 it’s just a custom Seiko.
@@bentswoodworking haha ok ok, still very respectable 👍🏻
Came here to ask something like "yea but does the renner repel water?" And discovered I'd entered a world-class comment area that was clearly way ahead of me.
Milessi Natural Effects
The island is gorgeous. Unfortunately, it upstages your other cabinets. I’m hoping that you’re going to say those are being replaced.
Skylt is also awesome and not visual. 2k also.
I think it’s a company from the Netherlands (where I’m from).
I'm sorry, I was distracted by the 50K bucks worth of Festool on the rack behind you. lol
the flatter the sheen the less strength the finish has, flattening agent softens the finish, I don't know what the love of having wood look dull and unfinished these days is.
Looked to me like the GF was the least shiny and changed color the least.
It was the second most shiny. The Renner had no sheen
Probably just the camera angle
You should have removed the tape. Looking at then on camera the Renner looked the same as the GF and MAYBE the GF looked better, at least on camera. But by not removing the tape it totally throws off the whole comparison.
Not really sure of the test objective! Results are subjective in nature. You seem to leave out most of the attributes most would be interested in . General protection qualities, UV protection qualities, touch-up ease etc. Perhaps you would need a follow up video to compare the more important attributes. I am a fan and like your videos, I just don't get the point of this one.
Well, I’m not spending $1400 on a sprayer so see you later.
Dude is a retired US Army Master Sergeant. Try not spending your life in your mom’s basement and you to can have nice things.
I am also looking for a good finish for white oak as well. I ran across Basic Coatings-Raw Seal and Pure Matte top coat. It’s mainly used on white oak floors but I’m thinking of trying it on some white oak sample pieces.