On MTH HO, Scaletrains bought the HO line/molds and are working on a 1-2 year plan of bringing out some of the former MTH models (steam). My opinion is that they will have ESU sound decoders in them since currently that is what Scaletrains puts in their current models.
Oops... I should have read a little farther down in the comments before I said the same things lol! At least you confirmed what I thought I had read about ScaleTrains and MTH HO tooling. 🤠
I have had two locomotives fitted with HM7000 decoders for almost a month now, and both are still working perfectly. The performance is great, and the sound is awesome
I think for MTH, ScaleTrains bought the tooling for all locomotives and freight cars. They are working on producing the locomotives again, but with their own electronics. Also can confirm, Zimo is a lot more popular here in Europe and it makes it easier to work with
Love my TCS WOW sound decoders. They have a great keep alive setup on the board which saves space, the sounds are top notch and the audio assist makes quick programming easy. Just my 2 cents
I really like the Tsunami 2 decoders. They install easily, and sound quite good. Of course, your choice of speaker will also have an impact on sound quality. I have an Econami 21 pin decoder in my Athearn Genesis Big boy, which I bought DCC Ready, and will probably be switching it out for a Tsunami 2. A feature of the Soundtraxx decoders I especially like is that when you press F9 the grade crossing sequence is automatically played. I have a BLI UP 4-12-2 that the decoder is going bad in, so that will be Tsunami'd in the future as well.
Is it a matter of synchronization or something else? They have a special circuit board in the boiler that handles the synch and if it goes bad it runs the whole effect. Unfortunately you have to remove the chassis to get to the board. I figure of any of mine fail I’ll replace with a WOWSound.
Larry agree with your impressions of sound decoders and I would rank them exactly the way that you did. I have found that the SoundTraxx decoders are over all the most reliable of all of the brands. I have never had to replace one for any reason.
Really like this review. I totally agree with your comments on TCS. I run only diesels and have installed TCS WOW in several FA1 units. Awesome Alco engine sound. What makes the difference for me in regards to favoring TCS is their website installation videos. Their custom direction videos and images for each engine installation are fantastic. I have installed their decoders in Proto 2000 FA1 units and in Kato GP35 units. Love the sound and result in both. In head-to-head comparisons between a GP35 Digitrax sound install compared to TCS WOW in the same type of engine, TCS gets the nod. I would also add that the Digitrax soundbug decoder was $30 cheaper. Digitrax was a good result but TCS was better. Thank you, Larry.
Since QSI out of business they would really only get a mention at the end. I'd suggest the top US brands are Soundtrax Tsunami 2, ESU Loksound 5 and Digitrax and TCS. Unfortunately Matt Herman is no longer with ESU which is a major loss to the US market.
I use mostly SoundTraxx sound decoders because I find them much easier to program with or without the use of DecoderPro. I find many of the others very difficult to make choices of the various sounds and to control the volume. SoundTraxx makes it very easy.
So far I have only installed Soundtrax Tsunami "one" decoders. I have had good results with these. I have not wanted to install Tsunami "2" deciders, as after my experience so far with their first generation Tsunami steam decoders, I have decided that I wanted to always have a chuff cam drive the chuff sound, and the Tsunami 2 decoders do not have a chuff wire. I've talked to the Soundtrax people, and they insist that with the new Tsunami 2 technology, that the chuff can be perfectly timed with the driver rotation through the entire speed range by fine tuning the appropriate CVs, but I remain skeptical. Therefore, when I finish installing all the "Tsunami 1" decoders that I still have in my supply, I will probably purchase TCS WOW steam decoders (though I have not yet tried one), as they have a chuff wire, and from what I've heard, work very well. As for Diesel installations, I have found that a Tsunami first gen works fine. I don't have scads of experience like some undoubtedly do, but that is where I am at. Thanks again for your good work and great videos.
Larry, I have much less experience in the DCC world, but your impressions fall right in line with mine. Near the top: I admire the German engineering of the ESU Loksound, but I want to "play with trains" and don't care to go back to college to learn to operate my decoders. I still don't have a lot of experience with WOW Sound, but it seems like a good product. My favorite is Soundtraxx Tsunami series, particularly Tsunami2. They are relatively easy to operate, they program easily from my Digitrax Zephyr, and they offer lots of product support, such as George and his video series. A big factor is also that several dealers in my area carry the Tsunamis and they have experience in installing them and getting me set up. Thanks for this presentation.
I have used digitrax , a long time ago. I now buy Soundtraxx tsunami 2 only. It is a little expensive but can't be the quality. I have had to have a couple repaired which were not under warranty, but when it comes down to it, their decoders are high quality, the service is great if I have a problem or any issue.
MTH parts and sales sells their DCS / DSS PS3 decoders if you need to replace one. 90 bucks plus 25 to program the original files. Got one last week for a friend.
Very informative Larry. I've had decoders fail in the past but all the ones I've had recently have been very reliable - BLI, ESU and Soundtraxx. MTH was the only one where the loco produced lots of smoke as the decoder failed.
Thank you for the info, Up to now Ive always gone for the Loksound when given a choice but am now thinking of the Econami soundtraxx decoders for my steam locos.
Thank you Larry. Will definitely change cv29 for not running on DC. Think that's what I've had problems with and why locos have hurtled along and either flew off the layout or huge crashes. Thank you again Larry and best wishes.
Hi Larry! I find the newer (last 5-10 yrs) MRC decoders are good and solid but not a lot of frills - kinda like a Chevy or Ford vs. Cadillac or Lincoln. Good moderately priced option - especially if you have a lot of 1st gen EMD and ALCO engines that use 'blat' airhorns. Nice startup-shutdown sequence too.
Another great video Larry. Really enjoyed the reviews of the decoders as well as your personal preferences. I am debating on which sound decoders to use on my collection - this really helps narrow the choices down for me.
Nice overview of the decoders! ScaleTrains exclusively (I think anyway) offer Loksound decoders in their factory installed DCC systems. It is actually a pretty good bargain as mine have been coming with the ESU keep-alives factory installed as well. Significantly cheaper than buying the DCC ready models and installing the Loksound sound card and keep alive yourself. As I am new to the hobby, I'm sticking exclusively to the ESU line of DCC products for simplicity and consistency. Once I get a little more experienced I may experiment with other brands but for now, keeping it simple lol. I think I read somewhere that ScaleTrains bought the MTH tooling for HO, but would need to confirm that for sure. Memory isn't what it used to be... Thanks for sharing 🤠
Yes, buying factory installed decoders can save you a lot, both money and headaches. However in some cases it may not be the great option it appears. I bought several Walthers F7 units with Soundtraxx decoders. However apparently Walthers got a special deal by not including optional sounds. As a result although I am installing Nathan M5 airhorns I am stuck with the single chime blat horns. Event the guys at SoundTraxx were surprised that I cannot change that. Consequently I either have to swap in a different decoder or run another loco as the lead and disable the horn sound in the rest of the consist.
Hi Larry, nice video. For me, I like Soundtraxx, both Tsunami2 and Econami/Econami UK decoders because of the east of programming, plus, unlike every other brand of decoder, you do not need the motor connected to program the decoder. Second is Lok Sound, because of the variety of sound files, plus the ability to reprogram the decoder to a new sound file. I've not been impressed at all with Digitrax sound. BLI Paragon 3 and 4 still have issues where the engine will either just come to a stop (with brake sounds and the cab light turning on), only to then start moving again, or the engine runs away out of control. Also, with my HO scale Paragon4 Pennsy E6s 4-4-2, I could not program it using a programming track. Each time I tried I ended up having to reset the decoder. TCS I don't care for because of their weird way of handling the various functions, by having to change "function table" (sorry, I don't recall the specific name for their method). The other brands of decoders simply let you access them through the DCC controller. I have a few English trains with Zimo (two factory installed, one I installed) which work very nicely. I tried a Hornby TTS decoder in my rebuilt Merchant Navy 4-6-2, but felt the poor sound quality, plus limited programming ability (I couldn't get the chuff rate to match the drive), so I replaced it with a LokSound 5 decoder for that locomotive. I have a Piko Whitcomb diesel, which came with their own sound decoder, but it won't work with NCE control system. The engine sound keeps cutting out. Piko said that I need a DCC controller that keeps sending the command signal to the decoder, nothing that any other brand of decoder I've used requires. DCS - Mike Wolf thought he could for that onto the HO market, in a market where DCC was firmly established. QSI - great at the beginning of sound, now just obsolete.
If you want to take Tsunami sound to another level, pair them with Scale Sound Systems speakers, and use that manufacturer’s recommended volume and equalizer settings. The difference is incredible.
For what it's worth regarding sound decoders, I have experience with BLI, Loksound, MRC, and Soundtraxx. MRC, when it worked at all, just sucks. The others all have their advantages, but BLI is the only one I have had quality control issues with. Like faulty connectors that should have never left the factory. My only issue with Soundtraxx is that they fail to address how to upgrade their (non-Econami ) Soundvalue decoders.
Larry Nice review My engines are all using Tsunami 2 decoders I have some DH in very small switchers but now Soundtraxx has a decoder for them before long I wil be a soundtraxx only railroad.
Tsunami2 for all my diesels. The sound quality, realism and DDE is enough for me to use them over others. Plus not liking the fact that certain loco manufacturers (Scaletrains) are effectively locking several lighting functions to only ESU decoders. This kind of practice goes against the whole point of having the 21pin standard. Personally I've purposely avoid buying from manufacturers that does this to their loco motherboards.
I recently standardized ESU LokSound across my fleet, and along with the LokProgrammer, turned programming from the biggest hassle to my favorite aspect of the hobby. No more CV hell for me.
Good informative video. I settled on Soundtraxx for the majority of my decoders to install in On30 locos. At this point I have no diesel power. I have a few TCS equipped steam locomotives. However, I’m sticking mostly with Tsunami 2200 and Blunami decoders. I prefer Blunami. By the way was Blunami just overlooked?
Hi, Larry, I have three Hornby XTS / HM7000 decoders, they are exactly the same size as a Locsound 5 so no issues with the size. Also they are switchable between DCC & Bluetooth operation using the iPhone / Android Apps, also using the App you need a separate Throttle/Controller. You can also upload different sound files, like Loksound and also from the app you can reprogram all the CVs simply using sliders without actually having to know CV codes. This is a step change or killer App just like Windows 95 was compared to DOS or MAC vs Apple ][. I have had no issues with mine, but one or two people have reported issues on YT.
@steveashcraft718 I had to get some other work done on MTH F-7 AB set and sent them back to MTH. Besides the motor warranty replacement MTH tech told me the MTH remote control knuckle couplers were not reliable so they replaced MTH couplers with Kadees.
TCS and LokSound seem to be the go to sound decoders for N scale. For non-sound decoders, Digitrax also is popular. Unfortunately, Soundtrax has very limited options for N scale.
Yes, for many years Digitrax has been releasing drop-in decoders just about every time a new N-scale loco is released. This really gave them and edge up over the competition in N scale. Unfortunately I haven’t been impressed with their HO scale sound decoders but their mobile decoders work very well for me and I have some that are 25 years old.
I have pretty much standardized on the ESU decoders. Unless I can get a bargain for another brand. Been installing and using sound decoders since Soundtraxx had only sound. You needed to add a motor/lighting decoder with it. My main reason for using ESU aftermarket is because of the programmer. Since 1998 my programmer still works and upgrades regularly. Any other manufacturer would have forced my to buy a new one.
This was a reason i decided to use these decoders to begin with. I like the lokprogrammer software compared to the other methods of doing tuning/speed matching, and with Loksound 5 i can speed match each speedstep curve point to 2.5mph scale increments(with my speedometer) and then fine tuning from there is a matter of just taking the time. And since I went with the ESU Cab Control system, everything seems pretty seamless so far!
From my experience BLI decoders don’t like to communicate with JMRI, especially the decoders prior to Paragon 4. Not sure why, but quite a few like me have had this problem.
N-scale I find my list somewhat different . ESU , ZIMO and Digitrax . ESU has drop ins for Atlas and KATO , 6pin NExt 18 ..etc Digitrax the least exspensive and exceptable sound quality foir N-scale the sound is not bad!! but ..49.00 for a pcket type and 58.00 for a drop in ..hmm. It is not ESU as far a sound quality and custimization! My Fleet of Fox valley N-scale Gevo's run on Zimo 6pin sound decoders and custom speakers from Stream line Backshop ( they will also load up a sound file you want on zimo). Been running a few Hornby Next 18 in my Rapido ( UK) class 28 ..bluetooth is great sound is very good also ..so far so good. Sound Trax has a drop in that i have for Kato wide body but i found the 1100 tsuname packet decoder difficult to fit in most of what i have run into. Just an opinion from an n-scale perspective . Great Video as usual Larry ..
My thoughts: Digitrax customer service is terrible. I will never by another Digitrax decoder. This was as of 2 years ago or so - it's always possible they've improved since then. Loksound decoders sound great. The micro will fit in just about anything. Difficult to program. Manuals can be confusing. I could not change the indexed CVs using JMRI. No experience with their customer service. Soundtraxx sound great, but maybe not quite as great as Loksound. I prefer the functions Soundtraxx provides over Loksound. I was able to change the indexed CVs using JMRI, which you have to be able to do in order to remap the function keys. Customer service is great. I exchanged e-mails with George B. and he cheerfully solved my problem. The TCS KA-1 is my go-to keep alive. It fits in almost anything. I got a Digitrax keep alive and it didn't even work with the decoder it was specifically designed for.
The Zimo requirement for serial number controlled installation of sound files is an absolutely ridiculous expectation by a manufacturer. I use TCS Wow kits and Tsunami 2.
Yes, I found it to be an especially burdensome limitation. I guess they do it because so many of their sound projects are sold as third party products. In the US most LokSound projects are free although some manufacturers like Rapido are limiting their sound files to just locos and decoders they sell.
It’s yours. Give me an address and I’ll see what shipping will cost and get back to you. PS-if your message gets lost and I don’t respond later please send me a new comment instead of responding to this one. Once I get a additional hundred or so comments the old ones tend to get lost.
Hi Larry, Thanks for another great review and informative video. Have you had any experience with the XL decoders? They seem to be priced right for someone being on a very limited budget.
Good solid information as I am just starting to DCC my old DC locomotives. Any thoughts on LcoFi? I was about to buy one but need to 'be sure' as postage and exchange is almost prohibitive for us here in Australia.
Have you looked into the Blunami sound decoders that you can download an app and control everything with your phone? I've seen it at my local train shop and they and I are very impressed. Very suitable for "dead rail" installs too.
Request or suggestion for a future videl: "All about the decoder buddy." Pluses and minuses. WHich decoders might need them more than others, things to remember, are there different brands of Decoder Buddy. Is there already a dedicated video to this? I haven't seen it if there is. Thanks.
The statements made regarding Hornby TXS decoders are incorrect. The few examples seen of 'burn out' can be traced directly to the user using older power supplies that are specifically not recommended by Hornby. As for size iss, this only relates to the Next 18 version adopted by Hornby specifically for their TT120 locos. There is a second generation Next 18 on the way that will address this.
Do you think some modelers run the volume way too loud? At one club I almost started wearing ear plugs that I wore back when I worked on the RR. I try to adjust volume to scale for the layout. So if you are 50 scale yards from the loco it would sound like 50 yards from a real loco. It is hard to figure a good scale depending on the layout. But it is really obnoxious to have new 4 unit set of big SD-70 locos drown out the chuffing of the BLI ATSF 3751.
Yes, I definitely agree. I especially dislike the sound of the bell clanging away if too loud and the drone of the diesels idling in a yard will make my knees go weak. One nice feature of SoundTraxx Tsunami2 decoders is they have 2 volume setting tables. You can have one set low for use on a home layout and then the other with louder volumes for use at train shows etc where there is a lot of ambient noise. Of course you can also just change the master volume CV and use a low setting at home and a larger value for shows.
I do agree that many sound locos run with the volumn too loud. On a home layout (especially one set up with walk around access), I think the sound needs to be loud enough to be heard when standing in the aisle by the loco. It certainly should not be heard across the ridge. Unfortunately if you set a loco up with a low sound volumn then take that loco to a public display setting (think modular RR setup in a Mall) then the sound is to low for the spectators to hear. And most decoder sound level needs to be reprogrammed to change volumn.
All my Bowsers have Loksound. Baldwins and Alcos sound great. I removed an EZsound out of a Bachman RS3 and replaced it with a Loksound decoder....their prime mover sound is so realistic and clear. My Digitrax in my Overland GE ES4400 is low in volume an not a true representation of the GE sounds....as you mentioned
What do you think about Ring Engineering and their RailPro system? I really like the way they do consisting. It works so very good and is really easy. Plus, you have so many options when it comes to taking your locomotives to other layouts. They will run on dead rail with batteries, DC rail, or DDC powered rail. You can have pictures of your actual locomotive uploaded to your controller by sending them a picture and then they make it downloadable to your system. I am not sure how compatible their decoders are with all brands of locos, but I really like all of their other features. I am curious what you think of their technology.
@@TheDCCGuy While not true DCC technology, they give the modeler the ability to run trains better then the Blunami in my opinion. When you consist two or more locomotives together, they will pull at the same speed so to speak. If you separate them and one bogs down, the other will increase power to maintain your set speed automatically. My local shop said that they do not want to open their technology to the market and he thinks that has hurt them from being more popular.
Have you had any experience with the Digitrax SDN147 sound decoders? This is a relatively new model, and I was wondering what, if any, comments you may have
No I haven’t tried it. I was pretty disappointed with my last Digitrax sound decoder install so have avoided them since then. I don’t know whether they have improved with the newer version. I have never been all that happy with the sound projects and most of those Digitrax created that are on their website are pretty old. My main issues have been low volume and the fact that rpm increases seem to be simply achieved by playing the same sound loop faster instead of using sound samples recorded at the various rpms.
Broadway Limited Imports is STILL unreliable. The guys at my club who purchased Paragon 4 locomotives had to send them back for repair because the decoders were bad. My SOU SD45 is refurbished for crying out loud. I have two paragon2 steam engines that are shorting for no reason and I can't figure out what the problem is. So I plan to replace their decoders with soundtraxx
In other videos you have mentioned Blunami (and I found one comment in this thread mentioning them). Are they too new, the market too small, or just out of scope for this video? I am trying to resurrect a 40-y/o DC layout. So far, I haven’t invested in DCC or DCC-ready equipment (I haven’t got the old DC power completely running yet). I was considering using bluetooth to avoid some of the legacy track issues, reduce conversion costs, and enable operation on DC & DCC together (with blocks) as I convert. Is that feasible? Any recommendations or warnings? Thank you.
I did 2 videos on the Blunami (272&273) and they are bssically a SoundTraxx Tsunami2 decoder with a Bluetooth interface so fall under the comments I made on SoundTraxx decoders.
Hi Larry. I tried putting 2 decoders in but don't want to fry anything I bought quite a few decoder buddys and larger decoder buddy... Do you put them in for a price . I trust you to put together mine I want that growl sounds on my seaboard EMD F7A BY BACHMANN HOPE TO HERE FROM YOU SOON THANKS , JOE
I've had good luck with Soundtraxx especially Tsunami 2. Very easy to install and program with lots of choices on engine/horn sounds and lighting effects. I give MRC a total thumbs down. A drop-in sound decoder for Athearn MP15 just didnt work right at all compared to my other Soundtrax decoders.
Thanks for yet another very informative video. I belong to a club called Canvey Railway and Model Engineering Club in Canvey, Essex, England, and we are in the process of upgrading our signalling system. A little while ago I believe you did a video in which you said that you bought some bespoke circuit boards from a company in China. Could you let me know the company name please as we need about fifty of them. Thanks, John.
I covered that in videos 287 & 289 however they designed for US automatic block signals and I doubt that would fit in with a UK prototype. If you go to the description for the videos I provided the information on the source for the circuit boards.
I really like my A-B F-7 HO MTH set. They installed new motors and DCC decoders after I had a short circuit and they told me over the phone the motors were defective. Same for the remote controlled couplers. They installed Kadee couplers. Sound is very realistic. I worked on F-7 units back in the 1960-70 era. I’d like to know if I can use a function to turn off the green class lights? I like them when I use the MTH ATSF F-7 units leading the Super Chief w/El Capitan as 2nd Section following.
Since I'm working on a friends MTH gp38-2 I thought I might look into this. The manual, on page 24 has a Function ID Chart. These are the internal function numbers which you can map to your physical function buttons on your command center. So one of them in the lights section is for "Markers" and shows train / no train. This is no doubt the class lights. The booklet goes on to explain how to set a function to a function button. So it appears you can map a button to just the class lights with some work.
@@tvtoms thanks! If I can figure it out regular timetable scheduled passenger trains ran with class lights off that indicated it was already scheduled and did not need authority to operate as an extra train which displayed white class lights. Since these beautiful F-7 red & silver w/stainless steel plated sides look best pulling the Walthers plated Super Chief would look better with those bright green class lights turned off. Yes, to someone ignorant of RR rules those green lights look cool, but cool isn’t always prototypical.
@@railscenes4959 Yeah I had looked that up when I bought a loco that had greens so I could use them when appropriate. I like having various lights on their own function when possible.
I will only use ESU on anything I install. The offer more of a variety sounds than soundtrax or TCS. I bought an athearn and it has a tsunami in it and it is toy sounding with rail clack, sounds are not even remotely synced out of the box with the speed of the locomotive. Pure disappointment. Never had an issue at all what so ever with the esu inside scale trains or rapido locomotives. I have an atlas that has a quirk inside the programming. Tried to reset it and still acts up. Needs to be reset again. Soundtrax is slowly catching up to esu on sound varieties but still they also dont have features i prefer that are on esu. Or if they do, not easily remapped so everything is same for me across the board.
Xl decoders they work ok you get what you pay for with that said they sound better than digitrax. Xl actually makes the Mrc decoders. They will not tolerate a motor that is not completely isolated mount the motor on rubber and make sure the motor doesn't draw motor than a quarter amp. If you overload the motor circuit it will damage the decoder . They are exactly like the mrc larry shows. You get what you pay for
I am in Australia and am using Hornby standard and sound decoders. I have no issues with them “burning out” you have to ask that guy who experienced problems, how much current was his loco motors pulling?
Here in England my fairly local DCC dealer will program the most suitable sound chip for your model and then I would make any adjustments that are necessary. It’s mainly Zimo for Steam and ESU for Diesel’s and I have both all in O Gauge, I have never had a Burn out! Reply to this if you want to know who it is !
On MTH HO, Scaletrains bought the HO line/molds and are working on a 1-2 year plan of bringing out some of the former MTH models (steam). My opinion is that they will have ESU sound decoders in them since currently that is what Scaletrains puts in their current models.
Oops... I should have read a little farther down in the comments before I said the same things lol! At least you confirmed what I thought I had read about ScaleTrains and MTH HO tooling. 🤠
I have had two locomotives fitted with HM7000 decoders for almost a month now, and both are still working perfectly. The performance is great, and the sound is awesome
Good to hear. I think Sam must have just gotten lucky with the one he used in his review video.
I think for MTH, ScaleTrains bought the tooling for all locomotives and freight cars. They are working on producing the locomotives again, but with their own electronics.
Also can confirm, Zimo is a lot more popular here in Europe and it makes it easier to work with
Love my TCS WOW sound decoders. They have a great keep alive setup on the board which saves space, the sounds are top notch and the audio assist makes quick programming easy. Just my 2 cents
I really like the Tsunami 2 decoders. They install easily, and sound quite good. Of course, your choice of speaker will also have an impact on sound quality. I have an Econami 21 pin decoder in my Athearn Genesis Big boy, which I bought DCC Ready, and will probably be switching it out for a Tsunami 2. A feature of the Soundtraxx decoders I especially like is that when you press F9 the grade crossing sequence is automatically played. I have a BLI UP 4-12-2 that the decoder is going bad in, so that will be Tsunami'd in the future as well.
Is it a matter of synchronization or something else? They have a special circuit board in the boiler that handles the synch and if it goes bad it runs the whole effect. Unfortunately you have to remove the chassis to get to the board. I figure of any of mine fail I’ll replace with a WOWSound.
The only decoder you should consider for upgrading your Big Boy is the Big Steam decoder, as the sounds were recorded from the 4014.
As a 14 year old model railroader, it is great to know what to get and do so I can learn without making as many mistakes. Thanks so much!
Larry agree with your impressions of sound decoders and I would rank them exactly the way that you did. I have found that the SoundTraxx decoders are over all the most reliable of all of the brands. I have never had to replace one for any reason.
We finally made the switch to DCC and this video was extremely helpful.
Excellent information, Larry. Concerning DCC, You are the one person that if you said "take my word for it" I would. 😊
Really like this review. I totally agree with your comments on TCS. I run only diesels and have installed TCS WOW in several FA1 units. Awesome Alco engine sound. What makes the difference for me in regards to favoring TCS is their website installation videos. Their custom direction videos and images for each engine installation are fantastic. I have installed their decoders in Proto 2000 FA1 units and in Kato GP35 units. Love the sound and result in both. In head-to-head comparisons between a GP35 Digitrax sound install compared to TCS WOW in the same type of engine, TCS gets the nod. I would also add that the Digitrax soundbug decoder was $30 cheaper. Digitrax was a good result but TCS was better. Thank you, Larry.
Since QSI out of business they would really only get a mention at the end. I'd suggest the top US brands are Soundtrax Tsunami 2, ESU Loksound 5 and Digitrax and TCS. Unfortunately Matt Herman is no longer with ESU which is a major loss to the US market.
I use mostly SoundTraxx sound decoders because I find them much easier to program with or without the use of DecoderPro. I find many of the others very difficult to make choices of the various sounds and to control the volume. SoundTraxx makes it very easy.
So far I have only installed Soundtrax Tsunami "one" decoders. I have had good results with these. I have not wanted to install Tsunami "2" deciders, as after my experience so far with their first generation Tsunami steam decoders, I have decided that I wanted to always have a chuff cam drive the chuff sound, and the Tsunami 2 decoders do not have a chuff wire. I've talked to the Soundtrax people, and they insist that with the new Tsunami 2 technology, that the chuff can be perfectly timed with the driver rotation through the entire speed range by fine tuning the appropriate CVs, but I remain skeptical. Therefore, when I finish installing all the "Tsunami 1" decoders that I still have in my supply, I will probably purchase TCS WOW steam decoders (though I have not yet tried one), as they have a chuff wire, and from what I've heard, work very well. As for Diesel installations, I have found that a Tsunami first gen works fine. I don't have scads of experience like some undoubtedly do, but that is where I am at. Thanks again for your good work and great videos.
Larry, I have much less experience in the DCC world, but your impressions fall right in line with mine. Near the top: I admire the German engineering of the ESU Loksound, but I want to "play with trains" and don't care to go back to college to learn to operate my decoders. I still don't have a lot of experience with WOW Sound, but it seems like a good product. My favorite is Soundtraxx Tsunami series, particularly Tsunami2. They are relatively easy to operate, they program easily from my Digitrax Zephyr, and they offer lots of product support, such as George and his video series. A big factor is also that several dealers in my area carry the Tsunamis and they have experience in installing them and getting me set up. Thanks for this presentation.
I’ve had issues with ESU decoders. I’m very happy with SoundTraxx and Digitrax.
I have used digitrax , a long time ago. I now buy Soundtraxx tsunami 2 only. It is a little expensive but can't be the quality. I have had to have a couple repaired which were not under warranty, but when it comes down to it, their decoders are high quality, the service is great if I have a problem or any issue.
MTH parts and sales sells their DCS / DSS PS3 decoders if you need to replace one. 90 bucks plus 25 to program the original files. Got one last week for a friend.
Thank you for sharing. Yes, this was very helpful.👍
Very informative Larry. I've had decoders fail in the past but all the ones I've had recently have been very reliable - BLI, ESU and Soundtraxx. MTH was the only one where the loco produced lots of smoke as the decoder failed.
Thank you for the info, Up to now Ive always gone for the Loksound when given a choice but am now thinking of the Econami soundtraxx decoders for my steam locos.
Thank you Larry. Will definitely change cv29 for not running on DC. Think that's what I've had problems with and why locos have hurtled along and either flew off the layout or huge crashes. Thank you again Larry and best wishes.
Hi Larry! I find the newer (last 5-10 yrs) MRC decoders are good and solid but not a lot of frills - kinda like a Chevy or Ford vs. Cadillac or Lincoln. Good moderately priced option - especially if you have a lot of 1st gen EMD and ALCO engines that use 'blat' airhorns. Nice startup-shutdown sequence too.
Thanks for the info!
Another great video Larry. Really enjoyed the reviews of the decoders as well as your personal preferences. I am debating on which sound decoders to use on my collection - this really helps narrow the choices down for me.
Nice overview of the decoders! ScaleTrains exclusively (I think anyway) offer Loksound decoders in their factory installed DCC systems. It is actually a pretty good bargain as mine have been coming with the ESU keep-alives factory installed as well. Significantly cheaper than buying the DCC ready models and installing the Loksound sound card and keep alive yourself. As I am new to the hobby, I'm sticking exclusively to the ESU line of DCC products for simplicity and consistency. Once I get a little more experienced I may experiment with other brands but for now, keeping it simple lol. I think I read somewhere that ScaleTrains bought the MTH tooling for HO, but would need to confirm that for sure. Memory isn't what it used to be... Thanks for sharing 🤠
Yes, buying factory installed decoders can save you a lot, both money and headaches. However in some cases it may not be the great option it appears. I bought several Walthers F7 units with Soundtraxx decoders. However apparently Walthers got a special deal by not including optional sounds. As a result although I am installing Nathan M5 airhorns I am stuck with the single chime blat horns. Event the guys at SoundTraxx were surprised that I cannot change that. Consequently I either have to swap in a different decoder or run another loco as the lead and disable the horn sound in the rest of the consist.
@@TheDCCGuy That is a handy little bit of information right there. I will have to be sure to watch for that. Thanks for the tip! 🤠
Gary, your videos are awesome!
Hi Larry, nice video. For me, I like Soundtraxx, both Tsunami2 and Econami/Econami UK decoders because of the east of programming, plus, unlike every other brand of decoder, you do not need the motor connected to program the decoder. Second is Lok Sound, because of the variety of sound files, plus the ability to reprogram the decoder to a new sound file.
I've not been impressed at all with Digitrax sound.
BLI Paragon 3 and 4 still have issues where the engine will either just come to a stop (with brake sounds and the cab light turning on), only to then start moving again, or the engine runs away out of control. Also, with my HO scale Paragon4 Pennsy E6s 4-4-2, I could not program it using a programming track. Each time I tried I ended up having to reset the decoder.
TCS I don't care for because of their weird way of handling the various functions, by having to change "function table" (sorry, I don't recall the specific name for their method). The other brands of decoders simply let you access them through the DCC controller.
I have a few English trains with Zimo (two factory installed, one I installed) which work very nicely.
I tried a Hornby TTS decoder in my rebuilt Merchant Navy 4-6-2, but felt the poor sound quality, plus limited programming ability (I couldn't get the chuff rate to match the drive), so I replaced it with a LokSound 5 decoder for that locomotive.
I have a Piko Whitcomb diesel, which came with their own sound decoder, but it won't work with NCE control system. The engine sound keeps cutting out. Piko said that I need a DCC controller that keeps sending the command signal to the decoder, nothing that any other brand of decoder I've used requires.
DCS - Mike Wolf thought he could for that onto the HO market, in a market where DCC was firmly established.
QSI - great at the beginning of sound, now just obsolete.
If you want to take Tsunami sound to another level, pair them with Scale Sound Systems speakers, and use that manufacturer’s recommended volume and equalizer settings. The difference is incredible.
Great video. Good information.
For what it's worth regarding sound decoders, I have experience with BLI, Loksound, MRC, and Soundtraxx. MRC, when it worked at all, just sucks. The others all have their advantages, but BLI is the only one I have had quality control issues with. Like faulty connectors that should have never left the factory. My only issue with Soundtraxx is that they fail to address how to upgrade their (non-Econami ) Soundvalue decoders.
Larry Nice review My engines are all using Tsunami 2 decoders I have some DH in very small switchers but now Soundtraxx has a decoder for them before long I wil be a soundtraxx only railroad.
Tsunami2 for all my diesels. The sound quality, realism and DDE is enough for me to use them over others.
Plus not liking the fact that certain loco manufacturers (Scaletrains) are effectively locking several lighting functions to only ESU decoders. This kind of practice goes against the whole point of having the 21pin standard.
Personally I've purposely avoid buying from manufacturers that does this to their loco motherboards.
I do have an mrc dcc system.never did it let me down.i bought a mrc decoder and as of now i have to fix it . didn't take it apart yet ,FLA-NY , JOE
Excellent informative video which I enjoyed watching
Thanks for this very informative video. Now, about a video on the speakers and all the different options.
I’ve done at least 6 videos on various types of speakers a d how to install them.
@@TheDCCGuy OK, Thanks for the feedback. I will check them out.
I recently standardized ESU LokSound across my fleet, and along with the LokProgrammer, turned programming from the biggest hassle to my favorite aspect of the hobby. No more CV hell for me.
Great informative video Larry
Good informative video. I settled on Soundtraxx for the majority of my decoders to install in On30 locos. At this point I have no diesel power. I have a few TCS equipped steam locomotives. However, I’m sticking mostly with Tsunami 2200 and Blunami decoders. I prefer Blunami. By the way was Blunami just overlooked?
Hi, Larry, I have three Hornby XTS / HM7000 decoders, they are exactly the same size as a Locsound 5 so no issues with the size. Also they are switchable between DCC & Bluetooth operation using the iPhone / Android Apps, also using the App you need a separate Throttle/Controller. You can also upload different sound files, like Loksound and also from the app you can reprogram all the CVs simply using sliders without actually having to know CV codes. This is a step change or killer App just like Windows 95 was compared to DOS or MAC vs Apple ][. I have had no issues with mine, but one or two people have reported issues on YT.
Glad to hear that they’re working for you.
great video my favs are up in the top.
I use Tsunami 2 and love it 🔥
Slightly off topic but MTH had electro- couplers on their H O locomotives. I wish Kadee had these. I'm surprised there no longer available.
@steveashcraft718 I had to get some other work done on MTH F-7 AB set and sent them back to MTH. Besides the motor warranty replacement MTH tech told me the MTH remote control knuckle couplers were not reliable so they replaced MTH couplers with Kadees.
@@railscenes4959 Kadee was having these made but the company went out of business. Theirs were reliable supposedly.
TCS and LokSound seem to be the go to sound decoders for N scale. For non-sound decoders, Digitrax also is popular. Unfortunately, Soundtrax has very limited options for N scale.
Yes, for many years Digitrax has been releasing drop-in decoders just about every time a new N-scale loco is released. This really gave them and edge up over the competition in N scale. Unfortunately I haven’t been impressed with their HO scale sound decoders but their mobile decoders work very well for me and I have some that are 25 years old.
I have pretty much standardized on the ESU decoders. Unless I can get a bargain for another brand. Been installing and using sound decoders since Soundtraxx had only sound. You needed to add a motor/lighting decoder with it. My main reason for using ESU aftermarket is because of the programmer. Since 1998 my programmer still works and upgrades regularly. Any other manufacturer would have forced my to buy a new one.
This was a reason i decided to use these decoders to begin with. I like the lokprogrammer software compared to the other methods of doing tuning/speed matching, and with Loksound 5 i can speed match each speedstep curve point to 2.5mph scale increments(with my speedometer) and then fine tuning from there is a matter of just taking the time. And since I went with the ESU Cab Control system, everything seems pretty seamless so far!
I put a ESU I. A British engine and it seems very good. I like the station announcements and you also have an option for various ambient sounds.
Thank you for this video.
From my experience BLI decoders don’t like to communicate with JMRI, especially the decoders prior to Paragon 4. Not sure why, but quite a few like me have had this problem.
Very interesting, thanks.
N-scale I find my list somewhat different . ESU , ZIMO and Digitrax . ESU has drop ins for Atlas and KATO , 6pin NExt 18 ..etc Digitrax the least exspensive and exceptable sound quality foir N-scale the sound is not bad!! but ..49.00 for a pcket type and 58.00 for a drop in ..hmm. It is not ESU as far a sound quality and custimization! My Fleet of Fox valley N-scale Gevo's run on Zimo 6pin sound decoders and custom speakers from Stream line Backshop ( they will also load up a sound file you want on zimo). Been running a few Hornby Next 18 in my Rapido ( UK) class 28 ..bluetooth is great sound is very good also ..so far so good. Sound Trax has a drop in that i have for Kato wide body but i found the 1100 tsuname packet decoder difficult to fit in most of what i have run into. Just an opinion from an n-scale perspective . Great Video as usual Larry ..
My thoughts:
Digitrax customer service is terrible. I will never by another Digitrax decoder. This was as of 2 years ago or so - it's always possible they've improved since then.
Loksound decoders sound great. The micro will fit in just about anything. Difficult to program. Manuals can be confusing. I could not change the indexed CVs using JMRI. No experience with their customer service.
Soundtraxx sound great, but maybe not quite as great as Loksound. I prefer the functions Soundtraxx provides over Loksound. I was able to change the indexed CVs using JMRI, which you have to be able to do in order to remap the function keys. Customer service is great. I exchanged e-mails with George B. and he cheerfully solved my problem.
The TCS KA-1 is my go-to keep alive. It fits in almost anything. I got a Digitrax keep alive and it didn't even work with the decoder it was specifically designed for.
The Zimo requirement for serial number controlled installation of sound files is an absolutely ridiculous expectation by a manufacturer. I use TCS Wow kits and Tsunami 2.
Yes, I found it to be an especially burdensome limitation. I guess they do it because so many of their sound projects are sold as third party products. In the US most LokSound projects are free although some manufacturers like Rapido are limiting their sound files to just locos and decoders they sell.
I’ll take the QSI system if still available.
It’s yours. Give me an address and I’ll see what shipping will cost and get back to you.
PS-if your message gets lost and I don’t respond later please send me a new comment instead of responding to this one. Once I get a additional hundred or so comments the old ones tend to get lost.
Hi Larry,
Thanks for another great review and informative video.
Have you had any experience with the XL decoders? They seem to be priced right for someone being on a very limited budget.
Who makes them?
Good solid information as I am just starting to DCC my old DC locomotives. Any thoughts on LcoFi? I was about to buy one but need to 'be sure' as postage and exchange is almost prohibitive for us here in Australia.
Have you looked into the Blunami sound decoders that you can download an app and control everything with your phone? I've seen it at my local train shop and they and I are very impressed. Very suitable for "dead rail" installs too.
Videos #272-273
hello larry it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks and super cool larry video thanks friends randy
I put TCS wow in mostly everything unless I"m looking for certain sound I will go to soundtrax and skip the others
Request or suggestion for a future videl: "All about the decoder buddy." Pluses and minuses. WHich decoders might need them more than others, things to remember, are there different brands of Decoder Buddy. Is there already a dedicated video to this? I haven't seen it if there is. Thanks.
I think I did something like 6 or so videos on the various versions of the Decoder Buddy and instead installations using them.
The statements made regarding Hornby TXS decoders are incorrect. The few examples seen of 'burn out' can be traced directly to the user using older power supplies that are specifically not recommended by Hornby.
As for size iss, this only relates to the Next 18 version adopted by Hornby specifically for their TT120 locos. There is a second generation Next 18 on the way that will address this.
Do you think some modelers run the volume way too loud? At one club I almost started wearing ear plugs that I wore back when I worked on the RR.
I try to adjust volume to scale for the layout. So if you are 50 scale yards from the loco it would sound like 50 yards from a real loco. It is hard to figure a good scale depending on the layout. But it is really obnoxious to have new 4 unit set of big SD-70 locos drown out the chuffing of the BLI ATSF 3751.
Yes, I definitely agree. I especially dislike the sound of the bell clanging away if too loud and the drone of the diesels idling in a yard will make my knees go weak. One nice feature of SoundTraxx Tsunami2 decoders is they have 2 volume setting tables. You can have one set low for use on a home layout and then the other with louder volumes for use at train shows etc where there is a lot of ambient noise. Of course you can also just change the master volume CV and use a low setting at home and a larger value for shows.
I do agree that many sound locos run with the volumn too loud. On a home layout (especially one set up with walk around access), I think the sound needs to be loud enough to be heard when standing in the aisle by the loco. It certainly should not be heard across the ridge. Unfortunately if you set a loco up with a low sound volumn then take that loco to a public display setting (think modular RR setup in a Mall) then the sound is to low for the spectators to hear. And most decoder sound level needs to be reprogrammed to change volumn.
All my Bowsers have Loksound.
Baldwins and Alcos sound great.
I removed an EZsound out of a Bachman RS3 and replaced it with a Loksound decoder....their prime mover sound is so realistic and clear.
My Digitrax in my Overland GE ES4400 is low in volume an not a true representation of the GE sounds....as you mentioned
What do you think about Ring Engineering and their RailPro system? I really like the way they do consisting. It works so very good and is really easy. Plus, you have so many options when it comes to taking your locomotives to other layouts. They will run on dead rail with batteries, DC rail, or DDC powered rail. You can have pictures of your actual locomotive uploaded to your controller by sending them a picture and then they make it downloadable to your system. I am not sure how compatible their decoders are with all brands of locos, but I really like all of their other features. I am curious what you think of their technology.
I have never had a chance to evaluate it, and have never even seen one at all.
@@TheDCCGuy While not true DCC technology, they give the modeler the ability to run trains better then the Blunami in my opinion. When you consist two or more locomotives together, they will pull at the same speed so to speak. If you separate them and one bogs down, the other will increase power to maintain your set speed automatically. My local shop said that they do not want to open their technology to the market and he thinks that has hurt them from being more popular.
Have you had any experience with the Digitrax SDN147 sound decoders? This is a relatively new model, and I was wondering what, if any, comments you may have
No I haven’t tried it. I was pretty disappointed with my last Digitrax sound decoder install so have avoided them since then. I don’t know whether they have improved with the newer version. I have never been all that happy with the sound projects and most of those Digitrax created that are on their website are pretty old. My main issues have been low volume and the fact that rpm increases seem to be simply achieved by playing the same sound loop faster instead of using sound samples recorded at the various rpms.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for the response. I plan to try a different decoder (probably SDH166) in this loco. The SDN147 sound was below my expectation.
I have installed 5 new hornby decoders and have had more problems with the app than the decoder
Broadway Limited Imports is STILL unreliable. The guys at my club who purchased Paragon 4 locomotives had to send them back for repair because the decoders were bad. My SOU SD45 is refurbished for crying out loud.
I have two paragon2 steam engines that are shorting for no reason and I can't figure out what the problem is. So I plan to replace their decoders with soundtraxx
Sorry to hear that, guess I’ve been lucky so far but may be running in borrowed time.
QSI System reminder.
In other videos you have mentioned Blunami (and I found one comment in this thread mentioning them). Are they too new, the market too small, or just out of scope for this video? I am trying to resurrect a 40-y/o DC layout. So far, I haven’t invested in DCC or DCC-ready equipment (I haven’t got the old DC power completely running yet). I was considering using bluetooth to avoid some of the legacy track issues, reduce conversion costs, and enable operation on DC & DCC together (with blocks) as I convert. Is that feasible? Any recommendations or warnings? Thank you.
I did 2 videos on the Blunami (272&273) and they are bssically a SoundTraxx Tsunami2 decoder with a Bluetooth interface so fall under the comments I made on SoundTraxx decoders.
Hi Larry. I tried putting 2 decoders in but don't want to fry anything I bought quite a few decoder buddys and larger decoder buddy... Do you put them in for a price . I trust you to put together mine I want that growl sounds on my seaboard EMD F7A BY BACHMANN HOPE TO HERE FROM YOU SOON THANKS , JOE
I've had good luck with Soundtraxx especially Tsunami 2. Very easy to install and program with lots of choices on engine/horn sounds and lighting effects. I give MRC a total thumbs down. A drop-in sound decoder for Athearn MP15 just didnt work right at all compared to my other Soundtrax decoders.
Reminder QSI System. :)
You haven’t given me an address.
@@TheDCCGuy I sent message on FB the other day. What is the best way to send you my contact info without a public post?
I just looked on FB and no messages but then I rarely go there. I guess I need to open a DCCGUY.gmail account.
Thanks for yet another very informative video. I belong to a club called Canvey Railway and Model Engineering Club in Canvey, Essex, England, and we are in the process of upgrading our signalling system. A little while ago I believe you did a video in which you said that you bought some bespoke circuit boards from a company in China. Could you let me know the company name please as we need about fifty of them.
Thanks, John.
I covered that in videos 287 & 289 however they designed for US automatic block signals and I doubt that would fit in with a UK prototype. If you go to the description for the videos I provided the information on the source for the circuit boards.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry it's the source information that we require.
I really like my A-B F-7 HO MTH set. They installed new motors and DCC decoders after I had a short circuit and they told me over the phone the motors were defective. Same for the remote controlled couplers. They installed Kadee couplers.
Sound is very realistic. I worked on F-7 units back in the 1960-70 era.
I’d like to know if I can use a function to turn off the green class lights? I like them when I use the MTH ATSF F-7 units leading the Super Chief w/El Capitan as 2nd Section following.
Since I'm working on a friends MTH gp38-2 I thought I might look into this. The manual, on page 24 has a Function ID Chart. These are the internal function numbers which you can map to your physical function buttons on your command center. So one of them in the lights section is for "Markers" and shows train / no train. This is no doubt the class lights.
The booklet goes on to explain how to set a function to a function button. So it appears you can map a button to just the class lights with some work.
@@tvtoms thanks! If I can figure it out regular timetable scheduled passenger trains ran with class lights off that indicated it was already scheduled and did not need authority to operate as an extra train which displayed white class lights.
Since these beautiful F-7 red & silver w/stainless steel plated sides look best pulling the Walthers plated Super Chief would look better with those bright green class lights turned off. Yes, to someone ignorant of RR rules those green lights look cool, but cool isn’t always prototypical.
@@railscenes4959 Yeah I had looked that up when I bought a loco that had greens so I could use them when appropriate. I like having various lights on their own function when possible.
How do you feel about xl systems decoders do they work well and sound good ive not seen much about them but they are very affordable
I will only use ESU on anything I install. The offer more of a variety sounds than soundtrax or TCS. I bought an athearn and it has a tsunami in it and it is toy sounding with rail clack, sounds are not even remotely synced out of the box with the speed of the locomotive. Pure disappointment. Never had an issue at all what so ever with the esu inside scale trains or rapido locomotives. I have an atlas that has a quirk inside the programming. Tried to reset it and still acts up. Needs to be reset again. Soundtrax is slowly catching up to esu on sound varieties but still they also dont have features i prefer that are on esu. Or if they do, not easily remapped so everything is same for me across the board.
I just saw this video and wondered if you tried the New Digitrax HO SDH167D Series 7 Sound Decoder yet? I just saw that it's a new item.
Not yet.
AND I WANTED TO SEND YOU SOME PICTURES OF THE OTHERS I NEED DECODERS ON IT AS WELL. HOW CAN I SEND YOU PICTURES? , JOE
Xl decoders they work ok you get what you pay for with that said they sound better than digitrax. Xl actually makes the Mrc decoders. They will not tolerate a motor that is not completely isolated mount the motor on rubber and make sure the motor doesn't draw motor than a quarter amp. If you overload the motor circuit it will damage the decoder . They are exactly like the mrc larry shows. You get what you pay for
I prefer tsunami too because of the ease of programming.
Hi
Bluenamie
LocoFi
Great information as always from this guy, but, PLEASE stop waving your hands about!
Nervous habit, I try to put them on the workbench but they still get away from me.
@@TheDCCGuy I guess you are only human, ha ha.
Show us the sound while you drown it out with background music. Thanks
Ok will do
Can you stop talking with your hands?
I am in Australia and am using Hornby standard and sound decoders. I have no issues with them “burning out” you have to ask that guy who experienced problems, how much current was his loco motors pulling?
Sam's Trains
That was the new Bluetooth decoder, they can't take PWM DC as their power source, only straight DC or DCC.
Here in England my fairly local DCC dealer will program the most suitable sound chip for your model and then I would make any adjustments that are necessary. It’s mainly Zimo for Steam and ESU for Diesel’s and I have both all in O Gauge, I have never had a Burn out! Reply to this if you want to know who it is !