Protect Your Layout With NCE Circuit Breakers (276)
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2022
- DCC boosters put a lot more power on the track than conventional power packs, and consequently you need to protect your locomotives from short circuits that can melt sideframes and overload boosters. Many companies make circuit breakers of varying complexity to shut off track power during short circuits giving you time to safely eliminate the cause of the short. In this video I'll share a couple of devices from NCE that may be just what you need.
The NCE website is www.ncedcc.com - Jak na to + styl
That was a nice explanation... Ive had my NCE Pro-Cab system and 3 boosters on my layout and do not us any type of circuit breakers and have never had a problem over the past 12 years... I do keep a remote control in my pocket to shut down any booster if there is a short.... I also have 70 functioning signals on the layout running off the boosters... yesterday I ran a 15 unit consist (4 with sound) and had another 5 engines (3 more with sound) also using the same booster and had no problems.... NCE makes and excellent system and I would highly recommend it over any other system! Ill admit I bought one EB-1 but it has never been hooked up or needed... Good stuff Ron... Take care.... DD 🤪 😜 🤗
Thanks for this video and all you do to inform the community of various model railroad subjects.
You have several good videos on this subject! Thanks for sharing this information.
I use the eb1 and I'm very happy with it. Thanks for the info.
Your videos help me a lot with dcc. Thanks 😊 👍.
Excellent video as always. Great info and so clearly laid out.
The CP6 Circuit Protector is NOT a circuit breaker! It is a current limiting device and will NOT shut off the power! Showing the meter off is miss direction, as there is not enough volt drop to power it and in fact the 1.75 Amp is still running through the track in series with the bulb!
Indeed, it is the short circuit placed on the track that reduces the track voltage to zero. The current will depend upon the resistance of the bulb when lit. Hence, the CP6 provides protection by current limiting. Having said that, it is a helpful video as in some cases the distinction may not be important and it is useful to know what is available.
@@keithedwards1896 It is worse than that, a circuit breaker will remove the current, the bulb only limits it, if there is a similar current drawn from the fault, the whole current has to pass through the fault (being the loco or a partial short) that can still allow damage to the loco or faulty device, 1.75 amps will still cause overheating and possibly start a fire! I know of loco's that have died on bulb circuits because they have been left for long periods (unattended) in fault mode
Yes, and I discussed that and the implications in both the videos that I provided links to.
Great show Larry always enjoy the things you put out
Thanks Larry. I use EB1's and as you say they work well. Thanks also for the facia light and manual push to reset tip.
Great video. Thank you.
Per the NCE website, you can also wire multiple ports together to increase the Amps. Since each bulb is rated at .75 amps, you can wire two or three together and multiply the amperage.
Yes, but you really want to think long and hard before doing that. Remember that these only limit the current to that of the bulb, so I don’t recommend that. See video #109 for a more long winded reasoning.
Larry thanks for the information I use the EB1 units I setup Districts on my layout and one EB1 for each district. I had shorts from wheels on cars not setup properly it works well up to 15 districts now on my layout.
Thanks for talking down to us for the first 3 minutes and 45 seconds…
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I have an old eb3 which I am delegating to handle my various accessories. I’m upgrading my track protection to eb1.
The original version of the EB1 was not recommend for the NCE Power Cab but was fine for Pro Cab but the latest version EB1 (EB1 v1.1) is compatible with Power CAB. The EB1 v.1.1 uses switches rather than jumpers to adjust the amperage capacity. Info from the NCE zendesk - The Power Cab has built in overload for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset the Power Cab ever 1/2 second (500ms) until damaged if it is left uncorrected. The Power Cab does not have circuit breakers that will trip or fuses that will blow. Use the new EB1 v1.1 electronic circuit breaker to protect the Power Cab against short circuits. (Bottom line - You NEED a circuit breaker)
Others may have different experiences or circumstances than I do but the EB1 has worked well for me with Tam Valley frog juicers.
Personally, I would go with the EB1 v1.1 and dispense with the CP6. Just my opinion.
Oh wow that's a pretty neat product, at first I thought it was something as simple as a 3/4 amp fuse and thought that's a dumb idea because you'd be replacing fuses left and right every time you get an older loco on the track that many short it out due to whatever issues, but to have a lamp light up and you don't need to replace it is great. Also a bright visual indicator that something is wrong is a lot better than constantly staring at an ammeter when you want to be looking at your trains is a bonus feature.
Yes, but they do very little to actually protect decoders against the excessive voltage spikes and current that occur when a short on the layout shuts down a booster.
I need a power manager that can handle DC as well as DCC. I am going to go with the CP6 in the case of what I am doing. I have also considered the DIgitrax PM42, but those are getting hard to find, and the PM74 isn't able to manage DC like the 42 could.
I just looked at the EB1 and it appears that the 3 jumpers have been replaced with a small box with 3 micro switches, if that helps anyone.
A common misnomer is those LED terminals light up an LED on the facia(or wherever) when you have a short, they do not. They work in tandem with that small pilot light next to it, so I wish it was called a track status light. So I use green LED's for mine. When you have power to the layout and/or hook them up they light up. You short the track they go out. At least on my layout they do.
Sorry, I misread that too. I find it odd they didn’t design it the other way around but they do say that it merely mimics the action of the onboard status LED.
Found it
If watching on TV, those links/descriptions do not appear. When it watch on laptop/cell etc, much easier.
Absolutely, if you watch on a TV there is no option to read the descriptions nor leave comments. You might edit and place text in your video so viewers who view CZcams only on TV can pause and write them down.
Thanks for explaining what a description is.
But what is a "video?"
What is "You Tube?"
I'm confused...
There are a lot of folks who just go to the CZcams site and click on what they see but really don’t know much about going deeper than that. So I feel it appropriate to occasionally point out features like descriptions and channel home pages where they can access the 281 videos I already have produced over the last 3 years. To be honest CZcams doesn’t provide much guidance either-it’s sort of an explore and discover what you can approach. I too am still finding hidden features plus they are constantly making “improvements” that they don’t even bother to tell creators about.
@@TheDCCGuy 😛
Have you done a video on MARs lights? Such as what and when they are used and installing and operating in a locomotive...
Not specifically although I have installed them as part of a couple of installs including the recent Blunami installation. However on most railroads they were only used in very limited cases. For example when approaching a road crossing or a station to warn passengers. They also could be used in an emergency. Most railroads would have instructions for the use of them so you need to do a little research on your prototype. As for installing one, it is the same as a headlight. Then you simply program the specific light function for a Mars light and adjust the flashing controls to you preferences.
Larry, Will the EB1 work out of the box with Tam Valley Frog Juicers or does its short detection need to be slowed down?
The timing on the EB1 should be fine as is but just i case that is one of the options you can easily program.
We had a CP6 on our club layout, we had a derailment and no one noticed the light and while it worked but no one noticed until we smelled the smoke started by the bulb. Lesson learned, don't put the CP6 where it can't be easily seen.
That is one issue with ballast lamps as they can get hot. The improved ballast lamp video I did helps with that problem since it greatly reduces the amperage flowing through the bulb, reducing heat as well. The CP6 offers the convenience of an off the shelf ready to use device instead of having to cobble together 6 ballast lamps, which makes it a lot easier for many modelers.
Narva 12V / 21W Festoon lamps from your local car maintenance shop is a lot cheaper for your lamps.
Which video talks about ballast in reference to power not track?
Quick question, not directly related to this video only: Is there a direct connection between the upper and lower level of your layout? If so, are you using a helix or something like that to connect the two levels?
Thank you for this video - I was jut starting to look into adding a circuit breaker to my own build - perfect timing!
You need to watch my series of videos on building a helix between the main and lower levels of the layout.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you, I will take a look at that. Keep up the good work!
Gosh, that's reminded me of the Scalespeed controllers we had back in the 1960s, which had ballast lamps like that built into them, which worked just the same in ye olden days of DC.
(Has anyone asked you for a link how to use the youtube search bar yet? 🤯)
Thanks, I have been trying to remember what brand powerpack had these for ages. I can remember that big bulb sticking up on the top of the case but can’t find a photo anywhere on the web, maybe having a brand name will help.
will theses circuit breakers with other dcc systems and the number of signal hertz passing through them matter. In other words can they be used on a multi protocol system that transmit dcc signals as well as other protocols of signals?
As far as I know the electronic types work only with DCC systems. Ballast lamps may work with other types and it would be easy and cheap to test, or just ask the tech support folks.
Hi Larry I have a question watch is better using suit case clip,s or soldering the bus wirer,s
From Neil schwerdt in west valley city Utah September 29th 2022
Thank you Larry
The only wires I solder are feeders to rails and control wires to Tortoises.Everything else I use some type of suitcase or clip type connector.
How many amps can a decoder handle before it’s fried? If you have a breaker like this set for 4 amps so you can run 4 locomotives with lighted passenger coaches, and one locomotive derails shorting the layout, is that decoder protected if 4 amps is getting to it?
Each decoder has an amperage rating, if the motor and functions draw over that it will go poof. If there is up to 4 amps potentially available it doesn’t mean that much is being used by the decoder. Its like your house circuits. Even if it is a 15 amp circuit a light bulb plugged into an outlet does not pull the full 15 amps, it only draws what the bulb is rated at. Now as to the short and whether the loco/decoder will be damaged. It all depends on the nature of the short and hoe fast the booster or circuit breaker shuts down as well as your wiring. A properly wired layout will not be an issue. However do it wrong or if the loco does just the right thing and yes you can fry the decoder. I have several videos among the 300+ on this channel that discuss how to wire correctly and also how to protect against damage from shorts.
Larry, I am gonna ask an absolute stupid question, but it is something I am completely oblivious too. When I am setting up my power districts, meaning separation of different territories on my layout, as I lay track do I need to use insulated rail joiners where I want my power districts to start and stop????
Yes, you need to physically and electrically isolate the rails of each power block. You can do this with the plastic rail joiners or just leave or cut gaps. The gaps are also important in oder to allow long sections of track to expand or contract if the layout is not in a climate controlled room. Garages, attics, sheds, etc. are notorious for major temp changes which can result in kinked rails.
Larry thank you my layout is in my basement room, I can absolutely cut gaps in the rail. Thank you for your channel and educating me
Ok I hope this is not a stupid question. I,m building a small shelf layout about 24" by 10' the most locomotive I'll run is 2 , I'll have a total of 8 turnouts. do you think I' ll do ok with 1 EB1?
No problems, should work fine.
Thanks@@TheDCCGuy
Would 6-10 locomotives be overload for the CB6! Thanks for video by the way!
Those are rated at 1 amp per circuit so unless you have some super efficient locos even 4 might trip it.
4 in each power block? @@TheDCCGuy
Yes, you need to find out the current draw of the motors and add them up. If the total is 1 amp or more them the bulb will shut off power to that block. Older locos with open frame motors or the old Athearn ones can pull a full amp at times, but a new high efficiency motor may max out at 0.25 amps.
I have an issue that maybe you can provide guidance. We have a display style layout that has a double main and a branch all have a continuous loops over 11 modules. Each booster supplies power to 2 modules and one provides power to three modules - the problem is that there could be up to six or even 10 locos on any zone (2 modules) at one time. Could I use an EB1 for each zone and then have secondary circuit breakers EB6 for smaller blocks within each of the zones?
I think you mean a CP6 as I have never seen an EB6. The issue you would likely see is the Eb1 trips in 16ms whereas the EP6 bulbs are slower so the EB1 will trip before the CP6.
@@TheDCCGuy Correct IRT CP6. Finally received my EB1 recently and installed the first one yesterday. Not very successful. They do not seem to function as expected when using with EasyDCC, they trip and reset only when set to 8amp, but do not reset when set to any lesser amp setting. They display a very faint flicking only on the short LED. This is same after removing all Locos from the section/block. Guessing the Zonemaster booster competes with the EB1. I think it maybe due to the setup of the zonemaster and the amps it supplies. Maybe need to work out how to pulse the EB1 but could not work it out yet
Check with Keith on the trip speed of the booster. For it to work correctly the booster must be slower than the breaker which is about 16ms.
Where do I go to purchase one of these circuit breakers?
eBay or the NCE website!
I understand the circuit breakers are for DCC systems. Could they be used for DC systems?
No they are DCC only.
Thanks for the reply. It helps a lot.
@@TheDCCGuy
would this work with a z 21 black edition one
Should work with any DCC system.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks friend did some research and it does indeed work with it so thanks for the reply your video on them has been invaluable to me and its kinda swayed me towards this point motor
I’m just beginning to install a nce powercab. Do I need one of these devices to protect it from being destroyed by short circuits?
I can’t find anything to disagree with what Albert said. He should be doing commercials for NCE.
Opps
DCC Guy, I would like to invite you to my model railroad museum in Pinegrove, CA. in Amador county, we have a ongoing DCC electrical issue we can't seem to fix. we hope you would be able to or if there is someone out there who can.
Sort of a very long distance visit. Tell me about your problem and I’ll see if it rings any bells.