As a police officer and hobby machinist, I wouldn't have this hobby if it weren't for cheap tools and machines. I know we are not to speak of HF out loud but I cant afford to spend $200 on calipers when $35 will do. Occasionally, I enjoy picking up name brand tools on ebay for a good price but it doesn't happen often. I don't live in a metro area so if I waited around for a good Hardinge lathe to go on sale I would still be waiting. Instead, I learned on a HF lathe and maybe one day I'll get lucky and some good American machine may find its way into my shop. Thanks for sharing your knowledge by the way.
I always go to my local thrift stores and peruse their tool sections. A lot of time I have noticed that they have no idea what they have indicated by the countless micrometers in the bottom of a bin of c-clamps. Sometimes you’ll have to take a wire brush to some things or to calibrate some mic’s but its good practice. People who own tools and put them on eBay usually know what they have. Same thing with craigslist and facebook marketplace. But the thrift store is usually clueless and a lot of them, at least in my community, fund some needed services like hospice care or in home care for the disabled so the better the deal, the more I put in the donation jar at the front counter. Win-Win
Fortunately, as a retired Tool and Die Maker I still have my prized precision instruments that I used for 40+ years. These are a mix of Starrett and Mitutoyo calipers and Micrometers. The one one thing you didn't discuss was the "between the ears" satisfaction that comes from KNOWING that you have a quality product in your hand. Confidence! It means a lot to me whether I'm gaging a precision work piece or tool or fixing an old coaster wagon. I have to admit though, that the price difference would give pause to consider.
This video isn't for you. Doing t&d for 40 years no tool can be good enough. But for the vast number of hobbyist this video shows there's often little reason to literally throw money away chasing precision. Some HF tools aren't this good, but many are at a ⅒ the price
Most useful comparison. Higher end measuring tools are always nice but must say, for value the HF items are really not at all bad, if we accept any limitations. Certainly if one's budget is limited the HF stuff is an adequate alternative, and accuracy can be very acceptable.
+ChrisB257 I was buying the same kinds of imported tools from ENCO before Harbor Freight exploded all over the map. For basic measuring tools for less intensive use, especially if you cannot write the purchase price off as a business expense on your taxes, the inexpensive imports can keep you going - or get you going where you might not have the money to buy the name brand widgets...
0 - 1" micrometers: I own a Brown & Sharp, a Mitutoyo, a high-quality Chinese with a vernier scale, and a very cheap Harbor Freight - they ALL WORK FINE! Most often I use the one that is closest at hand. I have personal preference for the Mitutoyo because my son purchased it for me as a gift. On the other hand, the Harbor Freight is easy to read and appears accurate although I've never done a side-by-side comparison with gauge blocks. Most importantly, get out there and USE YOUR TOOLS!
Out of the box, I would expect that both would work pretty good. The real challenge is how each of those mics hold up to the test of time. While I have not ever even held a Harbor Freight micrometer, my experience with most of the cheap import tools is that they work great for a little while but usually crap out on you right when you need them the most. For the home shop machinist that might use the tool a couple of times a year, they have their place, but if you are anything close to a serious home shop machinist, I think you are smarter to invest in higher quality tools. When I was young, first getting started, and did not have much money at all, I bought some import items. Most all of them have been replaced - not because I just wanted to, but because they failed the test of time. Now days, my first choice is to buy quality once rather than junk over and over again. In the long run, an investment in a quality tool will be cheaper because you rarely have to replace them. What would be really interesting is to do some drop tests and see how far of a drop it takes to kill each of the micrometers - see how they hold up to some abuse and then decide which is the better deal!
+just tim They are emoji smiley faces that your device is incorrectly showing as boxes for some reason, maybe your device doesn't have an emoji keyboard feature or something but for some reason it's incapable of reproducing the images......
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I'll reply, going to have to go with Mitutoyo. Bought my 0-1 mics 20 years ago and would still trust them against a Sheffield on a .0001 tolerance. Of course I'm not a home hobbyist. Plus my question would be on the grade of blocks you are using. I'd bet if you used blocks on Sheffield to calibrate, Mitutoyo comes out ahead. That being said if I was a hobbyist I'd go with HF.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Are you some sort of brand snob by any chance? I suspect so. I have expensive tools and cheap tools too. I have had my expensive tools crap out quicker and more often than my cheaper tools, especially my dial calipers. Out of all the tools I have bought at Harbor Freight, I have only had to return 2 of them. And I got no grief and great service because cheap or expensive, I always invest in an extended service plan. I have been a tech for 47 years and a machinist and gunsmith for 2, and I firmly believe service contracts are worth their weight in gold. Things always break down when the factory warranty goes. What I save having to replace any tool without one is more costly than buying it at the time of purchase. The first thing I do before depending on any tool for precise measurements especially on a gun, is to calibrate them using a set of Starrett gauging blocks since they are the industry standard. You said you never held a Harbor Freight micrometer, but you lump it in with unfounded generalizations. To me this the sign of a brand snob and a bad one at that. One reason along with the fact you like to hear your own voice that I no longer watch your videos.
Great video! Another point to add is where the cheapo's fall flat on there face is the battery life. You'll get ten times the battery life out of mitutoyo. Thanks Andrew
+Andrew Podaca And the batteries are *cheap* these days - I can keep a lot of $0.10 batteries in my supply drawer... If I were in a position where changing the batteries was costing me serious downtime, that would be a point to consider. For home hobby use, $35 is affordable, while $200+ is cutting into my budget for other tooling... Your mileage may vary...
The Toolmiser Also, the cheaper micrometers and calipers have no way of knowing when the battery is low, and can give false readings because of a low battery. That's a way to scrap parts
Some of those cheap tools you have to take the battery out. My HF digital caliper is that way. It doesn't have an off button so its always on and waiting for you to hit a button or move it even though the screen is off. So I just take the battery out when I'm not using it and they last a long time. Kind of annoying, not sure why they didn't put a power button on them.
Love the unbiased review! as a garage mechanic home machinist sometimes it's nice to know that the cheap stuff performs well enough for the few times I'll use it.
I am a hobbyist and part of the enjoyment of the hobby is working with quality tools. Although some high-end tools like the Mitutoyo ceramic gauge blocks are truly the reserve of the professional, using middle range tools (Mitutoyo micrometers for example) is a HUGE step up from Harbor Freight. Except their rolling toolboxes, I have never seen a Harbor Freight tool that did not feel cheap and disappointing. I buy once, take good care of my tools, and know I will enjoy those tools EVERY TIME I pick them up. Knipex and NWS pliers, Wera and Wiha screwdrivers, Lie Nielsen planes, Festool power tools for woodworking etc. I would not hire a pro with HF tools - for me at least investing in quality is the minimum of self-respect and pride in one's craft. Your mileage may vary.
good point about not hiring someone with higher end stuff. I have mitutoyo and starrett for my dial bore gauges for the outboards I rebuild. I had, years ago, bought a cheap one on ebay for $70, and it got me started, but seeing that gauge needle bounce low and high from 0 from time to time made me think twice. Just feels sloppy, even if the measurements are adequate for what i need. attitude is everything.
I don't have the HF digital Mic, but I have close to 10 of the HF 6" digital calipers. I'm good for misplacing my calipers and spending 20 mins looking for them. Now I have 10 of them dispersed throughout the shop. All 10 of them probably cost me under $150 total with the coupons and sales. For 90% of what I do the calipers are accurate enough. For the remaining 10% of the work I do, I have a full set of 0-12" mics that get pulled out when they're needed. As far as batteries go, I bought 50 of those watch batteries on ebay for under 10 bucks. That was 2 years ago and I still have 40 of them left. The cheapies might be a tad harder on batteries than the more expensive mics, but in all honesty ,I ain't going to walmart and paying $3 for a single battery when I can buy them in bulk online for one tenth the price.
Great points Dale! You would think that for the price Mitutoyo would come with a nice box and preferably one made of wood. I remember my grandpa running the barrel of his mic along his forearm to quickly adjust the opening, which is one thing that you cannot do with the Harbor Freight model. Anyway, I wonder how the Shars version compares to both of these. Thanks for the consistency, time, and effort as it is truly appreciated.
dale, i have had a hf just like yours for 2 yrs and still works perfect. i also have a mitutoyo and hardley use it. a micrometer stand really helps for accurite readings
Great comparison to this two micrometers, I have the Harbor Freight one (the one with 3 buttons) and I like it very much, thanks for sharing this video.
The company I work for has Mitutoyo micrometers like the one in the video that are over 20 years old. I check them every month for accuracy and repair any that need it and I can say that they very few of over 200 or so micrometers at our company need any sort of repair. The batteries, if you buy the silver oxide ones, will last well over a year if left on all the time and some of our operators do that. Also, noting on the comments in the video about the ratchet, Mitutoyo do a variety of types and you can order one with either that you fancy, check out page 2 on their pdf ... www.mitutoyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/2119-Product-Fund.pdf ...he has a ratchet stop on the video and the Harbour Freight is a ratchet thimble.
I got my harbour freight mic on sale for 19.95 when they had one of their parking lot sales it is a little slow but the display is nice and big . Thanks
Great practical video. This is the kind of thing a home shop can use. On my budget I could have one brand name or a shop full of useful tools. Considering that brand names don't get you much in this day those with extreme budgets pushing the hype live in a different world than many of us. I can not put all my resources in a very limited array of tooling if I want to actually do any machining. Doug
Being a former industrial multicraftman I appreciate the value of a good tool. I hate to but often had to abuse a tool to get the job done. Good ones hold up, the imports usually fold up. Now I am retired on a much smaller income. I wanted to include a home machine shop into my hobbies so I bought an import lathe and import milling machine. Most of my tooling is from imports. I love my new hobby. If it weren't for harbor freight and others, I wouldn't be able to afford my new hobby. Now I have more time and don't have to abuse anything and everything holds up fairly well. There are some duds out there. I love good tools but their price usually forbids me from buying very many. Most of us hobbyist make out as well as our means allow.
good video.a lot of "machinists" here. if you do not own a certified set of block gauges, sit down. they are (suppose) to be your surest reference, to which you check your mics/caps to. you can all pretend that your work is .0005 all day everyday in your garage, yet a precision shop does work in a fully controlled environment for a reason. if every thing had to be manufactured at such precise levels, cars would only last 6 months. not praising HF but its two different worlds when you're a home gamer (even at high skill levels) and a professional.
Dale, thank you for pointing out these practical differences between brands. In a perfect world, both suppliers will take note and at least consider incorporating the best features of the other.
I think the video is useful as people are sharing ideas and experiences, like how to roll the thimble on your forearm for rapid thimble action. But I would not have thought the Mitutoyo micro shown in the video cost $200. I have the same older model and they don't go for $200 second hand. I read all the posted comments before posting this and there are excellent points and ideas about how people use their micros. I have two Mitutoyos and one Starrett micrometer, bought on eBay in very good to excellent condition. So I am at least their second owner and they are still working superbly. The analog Mitu cost me $30 with shipping and came in a mahogany wood box. The digital Mitu micro (same as in the vid) came in a bigger mahogany box with a Mitu digital caliper for $80 with shipping. My Starrett 221 super precision direct reading analog micrometer came in a deluxe case that isn't available anymore. This was a gift but I found out how much it cost: $86.67 plus shipping. All three work flawlessly. Do you know which ones I use most? The analogs because they fit better in my hand and are their anvils are slimmer. I love the Starrett when precision turning. It might be a good idea to get to try different makes and models to get a feel for what works best for each person. Daniel
FYI you can get mitutoyo mics with the racheting stop. What you have is called a rachet thimble. The rachet stop models have the larger OD as the rachet, while still having the thimble as the speeder for quicker movements
Dale, I have the same one. I have grown to just love the ratchet position. In comparison it is absolutely spot on with my new Starrett...out to 5 place! I too am partial to Mitutoyo stuff but, I gotta tell ya...that HF is a great deal. Thanks for the great videos! -Tom
I just graduated from CNC Machinist school. I have been testing the Harbor Freight Caliper, Micrometer, Dial indicators, etc against the "Good", "Expensive" brands at school for the last year. The Harbor Freight products are surprisingly accurate and have held up over time. Now whether they will last 20 years, I cannot tell. But at the price I paid I will not cry a river if I drop and break one.
Just be careful. When I first got into the trade I bought a SPI digital mic from MSC. It seemed nice enough and passed the QC department's calibration. The particular model had no on/off button. You would just turn the thimble to "wake it up". What I found out the hard way was that every time you woke it up it would miss a tenth or two of rotation. Depending on how you woke up the mic your parts could measure big or small. We had to turn parts into inspection for in process checks at set intervals. My hear sank when my in process part came back under size on a +/-.0005 dimension. That mic was quickly junked and replaced with a Starett mic. The cheaper analog/dial tools might be ok, but the digital stuff I don't trust at all.
I started out with SPI as my budget friendly tools and they have great quality and longevity, then over time upgraded to starrett, that has been the most successful venture for me in terms of accuracy and over all quality
When measuring to the limit of accuracy, put the micrometer in a micrometer stand, so your hot little hand doesn't heat it up and change the reading. ^_*
I'm a hobbyist and I do use harbor freight tools like these. I would be nice to afford really good equipment but at this point I can not justify it. maybe someday of something I come up with is a marketable item and I have income to justify better I would do so very happily. Like you say this is a comparison for us hobbyist mainly and as one Thank you for the comparisons. It is very helpful to know what I can expect from these tools
Great comparison. I have a set of shars micrometers that I got as a gift and they have the ratchet in the same place as the harbor freight which I prefer greatly over the end of the knob.
Thanks for a honest comparison and opinion. I have used the china digital calipers for 20 yrs almost it seems. I recently bought a Starrett just to take any doubt out of my measurements. Its a lot more money but comes with a nice box assembled by Americans but guess what ?, it reads the same as my china cheap ones. I can sleep better knowing I'm correct tho. The China metals aren't quite as good as ours for strength tho in most cases a USA wrench is stronger, but for these common measuring tools I think they are good for 90% of average home shops and machinists . Especially starting out, we all would love $20,000.00 worth of Mitutoyo and Starrett but that money is better spent on other things that a guy starting out will need. Maybe buy 1 good Mitutoyo or Starrett to check your other cheap ones by like I did. Just an opinion.
what's cheap comes out expensive ,in other words if you buy cheap they wont last long ,that O. D micrometer is a good example all the assembly is plastic ,oil or any other type of coolant it will destroy it, all my micrometers are mitutoyo and i bought them about 10 years ago and still working very good thanks
For those interested I picked up the IP65 mitutoyo mic from a guy on ebay ideal precision for 126 delivered. Not a fake either and was exactly as described BNIB. Totally worth the cash IMO considering these things will more than likely still be reading accurately when I am in the dirt.
For someone who has only an occasional need for certain specialized tools, such as myself working on home projects, I've saved hundreds of dollars buying Harbor Freight tools. On the other hand, if my job, reputation or an expensive piece of equipment were to depend on a tool's accuracy, I wouldn't even consider walking into Harbor Freight's doors.
coffeemaddan What if it's a revolving door? Question. If a revolving door rotates in a counterclockwise direction as you are walking into it here in the US, does it rotate in a clockwise direction in England since they drive to the left instead of to the right? :)
Well, now that this issue has been cleared away by the use of the Coriolis flush. I'm really glad that the Coriolis effect doesn't suggest that we cease to use toilets in protest of the distribution of misinformation given to countless numbers of science students through the years, including myself. Now if we could politely convince the world that driving with the steering wheel on the left side of a vehicle allows the majority of the world's population, which is right handed, the ability to shift gears with their favored right hand. We no longer need to ride on the left to keep our right hand available to swing a weapon, as was necessary when riding upon a horse long ago. Having the steering on the left would also standardize the rules of the road when crossing certain countries' boarders. As for revolving doors, again those that are in the majority of being right handed, will naturally prefer a door that rotates in a counterclockwise direction. This would be due to the fact that right handed people have a natural tendency to bear to the right and to push on a door with their favored hand. For those people throughout the world who don't have toilets, there will be no experimentation with the flow of water. They will just have to accept the information that was kindly provided, as I too will concede that I was duped many years ago.
Agreed that HF does have it's place. I got a 3/4" drive socket set.. did the job, and I have it for the future. I've only used one or two sockets maybe 3x. For something that see's occasional use. it is, what it is. A lot less of an investment vs. Snap-on or Mac, etc... Generalizing: HF is good for one time use / consumable tools. As a professional engineer/tech, I have much better stuff in my boxes to rely on.
John Galt Totally agreed. Their tools are not for the purpose of abuse in an environment where they would be exposed to constant commercial use. I sure wish that they would make a small beam or dial type torque wrench that would read from 0-30 lbs/in. These are what is required to test the pinion bearing preload on an automotive type of rear differential. I had to send off for one and it wasn't cheap. I'll only use it a couple of times a year, if that often. They do have a "click" type of torque wrench in lbs/in, but their range of calibration is too high. Harbor Freight has their place in the tool world. The problem is that people seem to forget that in most cases you get what you pay for. I was a professional mechanic for over 45 years and I used and still have tools that my father used during his career. They are now close to 100 years old.
I might have to buy one to use at home. I use 20+ different mitutoyos at work but for someone not doing expensive parts with .0003 tolerances, it would work great .
Harbor Freight can get the job done now and again, but there is a reason you will find name brands in a fab shop. Reliability. I'll buy a few odds and ends like wire wheels for my grinder at HF but not grinding disks, etc.
Agreed that the boxes are rather cheap.... but, once I start using the tool it rarely goes back in the box... lol Those cheap tools will do mostly the job right, probably wear a little faster, but, for hobby use, you'll never see the end. Even in my everyday use, I often use a cheap $15 digital vernier, if it dies who cares, for a tiny more accuracy I get the Mitutoyo set... And if ==everything is at the same temp==, the tools, the part, to measure and the references, it will give you the correct reading... ;)
To make HF one spin faster grab the metal rod (forgot what it's called) and spin that instead, it's faster and convenient. I paid less than $20 for my HF, the problem I see is that when you calibrate it it looses it's zero when you turn off often which means you have to close it all the way to make sure you are calibrated to zero otherwise I am very happy with it.
For $35 having both scales SAE and Metric already is a huge gift. If you wanted that to have on classic analog ones you would need two micrometers one SAE and other Metric but those are two different tools the require calibration. Anyways yes Mitutoyo has a reputation and build quality and if you have one you would think you know more than others but its just a lie to make yourself feel more confident. Same way there are people buying huge trucks but never ever transporting anything..
I suspect that WalMart, HF and others like them are successful based in part on the 'good enough' principle; they sell stuff that is 'good enough' for the price. For most of us, price is the bottom line, whether we throw longevity, reliability, durability etc into the calculation or not. Thanks for taking the time to create, edit & post this vid; really useful info. 👍👍👍
When i was a carpenter i bought tools that last because down time cost money. However as a lathe newbie hobbyist you could buy 5 harbor freight mics over the years. For a hobbyist it may make sense to buy a lot of cheap tools to see if we stick with the hobby instead of paying 5 times the money for lots and lots of tools.
I personally think it comes down to just what the hobby / home machinist is working on, i.e. the wife's blender or maybe something on the car vs a machinist (machine shop) who may have a contract requiring a very close tolerance. You certainly don't need a $200.00 dollar piece of equipment to work on the wife's blender or any other home project(s,) unless that will make you feel warm and fuzzy to own the high price equipment. Not meant to be a put down to either piece of equipment, just how I see the different situations, i.e., night vs day. Thanks for the video, and like you said, it will be up to the viewer to assess his/her needs.
I'll take the Sterrett for myself if you please. FYI, for my toolbox at home (no machining) I picked up a very nice digital vernier caliper at Home Depot fairly cheap, works like a charm but I'm not looking for thousandths there so it's great for rough measurements.
Hi Dale, I think your 1st comment directed your many viewers in the right direction..."which one is best for the home machinist" and after your demo I am sure that most will go for the Harbour freight mic, please keep the vids coming and pay no heed to the negative vibes.
+rich kellow That's what he talks about in every comparison video. If you do this for a hobby and dont need to make fine work, the cheaper end stuff is good for that. If you rely on the need to make the part work the first time and everytime after the moment it leaves your shop, then purchase the tools that would serve you.
I'm not a HF basher by any means, but if you're doing something just for fun, sometimes its worth getting the Starrett, B&S, or Mitutoyo because they feel so much better in your and are so pleasurable to use. I find the HF measuring tools get flakey after a while and become frustrating.
I have a collection of both high quality expensive and lower quality budget measuring instruments,most of the work i do does not require super precise targets so i use the budget tools most of the time which are perfectly sufficient for the task at hand.I take out the Mitutoyo's for the jobs that need that confident measurement. There has been (Like many other machinists have had) where i dropped calipers or had something topple over on to a mic and kill it so to replace it with another cheapy one is not a problem......So my general rule in my home workshop for the expensive instruments is if i don't need to use them i don't.
your comment is correct for the use for a "home machinist".i could understand using the harbor freight stuff in your garage but if im gonna use any type of tool to make a living be it a set of mechanics tools or a set of machinist tools im certaintly not gonna make my first stop at harbor freight.i defy anyone to watch a nascar or nhra event and point out any team using a nice big set of" U.S. General" tools which are harbor freights top brand.
Dale I love your comparison type videos. I have to admit that I use off brand or cheap tooling as well, but they have their place as you well know. When you're working the part down to size that is really where the cheap tool has it's place because it is used over and over again and is tossed about in the process. I use the Name Brand tool for the Final Inspection on the part and thus it is usually only used at the end and then put back in it's box and put away. If I drop or break the cheap tool, sure its a bummer but I didn't lose the tool I really care about. Great Video and I hope you do more of these. Cheers, John
I dont mind cheap tools but it also depends on what im using it for, when using Genuine Mitutoyo gear you never have to worry about it being inaccurate, when using my cheap measuring tool i always get a Mitutoyo just to see if its accurate 😑
Well you asked Dale. For me, the Mits, almost everything I have for measuring equipment is there brand. For gauging I still rely on Starrett for those. Screw pitch gauges, feeler gauges etc. I don't know about right now, but even a year or two ago the Starrett digital equipment was judged by most over on PM as inferior to the Mitutoyo. And battery life? I get an easy 4+ years out of the proper SR-44's. Want a really good set of digital calipers. Try the 6" Mit solar powered. Finest calipers I've had in my hands by far including the Mit analogs. And no dead battery's unless you work in the dark. Mitutoyo boxes. (sigh) they ought to hang there heads in shame. You are so right Dale. I bought a Mit digital indicator.The one that's powered with a wall wart. 543-552A Inside the cardboard box there's a paper thin (no joke) blow molded container that has some really rough shapes to take the indicator, wall wart and manual. Your 1" Mit mike box is a Rolls Royce quality improvement over this. At best it's a good method of protecting the indicator from shipping damage. In no way is it any kind of storage container. The indicator is the very best I've used, but the box? This just isn't the type of indicator you leave out all the time. It needs a damn storage box Mitutoyo. Oh yeah, and when I did very politely email there head office about this problem, I got exactly zero response back. Not sure about that horrible fright mike Dale, but my mitutoyo's come with a test certificate that shows a graph of where the few really minor inaccuracy's are. But I'll freely admit $35 is a steal. IMO good quality tools tend to get looked after. There accuracy and lifespan is usually lengthened by that. Cheap tools no matter how good are used for about everything. So side by side in my shop the Mits will be and will stay accurate for much longer. But good video as always Dale, apology's for the rant. It really did feel good tho. :-)
Interesting, I like good quality tools but as a hobby machinist who uses it 2 or 3 times a week maybe I would consider the cheaper one. Thanks for sharing.
Totally agree with you on the Mitutoyo Cases. They suck! They get all warped and the fake wood grain just collects dirt and grime easier. I love Mitutoyos Mics but the cases are garbage. I have foam cutouts in my drawers and I just keep the cases at home in case I need to send them off for repair or sell them so all my cases stay mint.
IP rating is what separates them. We have went through several harbor freights due to coolant contamination. I have Mitutoyo's from 6 years ago that still read perfectly. Depends on the environment!
I have a mitutoyo 0-1 micrometer from the 1970's (purely manual, non-digital, of course) that has a beautiful case. Black with some gold colored trim, nice cloth flocked interior. Similar to what you'd expect to see a nice watch or piece of jewelry come in.
Just curios. What class are the gauge blocks? Class B may have a +-0.00005 tolerance. Which is fine as long as the operator uses the cert sheet to get the real size when checking tools.
Thanks for the comparison. As a spare time engine tuner I ask myself if it is really necessary to spend x-times more for a brand measuring tool. For machine shops it's no question to go with best possible quality, fast working tools which last as long as possible.
I agree absolutely. When it's about tools like mechanic ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers etc. only the best quality is acceptable. No mather if for frequent or permanent use. Otherwise "cheap" can become very expensive.
This is a very unbiased test and that is the way it should be. I like both micrometers Dale. Harbour freight is for daily use. Keep the Mitutoyo for the lab. Love engineering tools. Lovely presentation. Thank you.
Great video and I appreciate the knowledge on the subject. I'm a locksmith and for years I've used the Tumico thickness dial mic that I inherited from my grandfather for measuring pins to decode interchangeable cores, etc... Just recently I went to use it and it completely locked up. I know it wasn't dropped, I have NO idea why it's locked up. I'm currently looking for a pro who can fix it (as I don't want to risk making it worse)... but in the mean time I NEED to be able to take measurements... I went down to HF today and got this exact model. Now honestly, I don't need to take measurements to .00005, for what I need .0005 is fine, but it was on sale... Got it home and tried it out and so far so good.... I don't have high hopes that it'll last 60+ years like the Tumico but it's nice to know that I got at least a "fair" to "pretty good" tool for the money.
hey Dale, thanks for that comparison. you did a pretty reasonable, unbiased presentation that highlights the good and the bad of both tools. so now i'm gonna throw my 2 cents worth in: i have to concur with Keith Ruckers take in the test time. we have a set of mitutoyu calipers in the shop that are pretty beat up but still very usable and accurate. personally i wouldn't buy either one as i can recall from my apprenticeship years that mitutoyu was considered to be a cheap asian brand and looked down upon by my mentors. i avoid digital calipers and micrometers like the plague and use them only to get a quick and dirty measurement, but not for accuracy. to get that i use tried true verniers or dial calipers from Mauser (yes, the makers of Mauser rifles) and Mahr or KS micrometers. i recently acquired a set of imperial micrometers that was made by H&K for the Bundeswehr (german army) that leave nothing to be desired. the outfit i work for has bought several digital calipers (the cheapie chinese ones)and they last up to about a year and then go totally henshit. they literally fall apart. when it comes to tools, sure, a guy has to look at economy, but when you can get a decent used micrometer from Starrett, Lufkin or Brown&Sharpe for about the same money as new horror freight tools it starts to become a wash. keep up the good work! cheers mike
A few more selling factors are not only battery life but also, when the voltage starts to drop off the Mitutoyo's will tell you. The cheapo's I have come into contact with do not. This is a BIG deal because of how digital mic's measure, low voltage can throw off the actual measurement and give a bad reading. The price of entry for the expensive ones is true to form consistency.
Andrew Perlik Hi Dale. Thanks for doing this video. Just a few comments. SPI IP54 on sale at MSC for $100 looks like the HF model that you evaluated. I do not know what model Mitutoyo was evaluated, but the function of the extra buttons could be a discriminator. For example, a rezeroing feature would be very useful, and worth extra money to me.
I'll sacrifice and buy high end measuring tools. All my Mitutoyo, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe equipment is 30-60 years old and still going strong. I bought a couple cheap dial calipers years ago and regretted it soon after. Buy once, cry once.
My first job out of college was at an aluminum sheet and plate mill, quality control department. We we provided micrometers and 12` tapes. I can assure you the digital is not faster once you learn to add nor more accurate. Vernier scales work fine too without a battery, just getting hard to find.
Great Video, Dale what I've found is just what everyone else is saying they dont stand the test of time, but if you take care of HF tool it like you would a Mitutoyo or Starret you will get a fairly long life out of them and when I have one of my kids working in the shop I'm probably not going to give them a $250 mic to check something. I've used HF in my home shop and if you do a complete project using them the error is relative. But all in all I have like you A and B tools also. But for the guy just getting into machining as a hobby well you have to start somewhere. Thanks for sharing
I have two Mitutoyo calipers that are over 15 years old and a half dozen cheaper units. After 5 years, all the cheaper units have given up their ghosts. The Mitutoyo units are still working great. My advice to the home hobbiest is to buy once for something you will use forever and don't waste money trying to save a hundred bucks.
I have a number of Mitutoyo measurement tools that are soon to be 50 years old. Doubt that HF stuff would survive that long. Retired now, so they are toys in my garage, but earned their keep when I was a prototype machinist. Have Starrett and Brown and Sharp. Good stuff. Actually have HF calipers. Only trust them to ID drills as they have a fraction setting and I think decimal.
I was at HF with my boy and he was needing tooling for his new lathe and mill we unboxed the 3 Digital mikes they had and all three would not close with the friction knob and would bind, I ended up with a Mitutoyo for about $10 more on ebay auction and my boy bought an Igageing digital mike which is not much more then the HF and performs great. Without going outside I believe my Mitutoyo has the friction thumb drive on the same place as the HF.
I have that Harbor Freight one as my first and only micrometer. I'm very happy that you've shown it is accurate. The only issue I've had with mine is that early on it seemed to drain the battery when stored and off, so now I remove the battery every time I put it away. Mildly annoying but not a deal breaker. I'd be curious if others have had that issue or not.
Hey Dale! I alway watch you videos on a playstation so I can't comment. Just happened to be on a computer for this one. Enjoy all the videos! Good quality! Effort shows!
How much faster is it really when you have to get two hands on it Everytime? If your situated with one hand and need to change the whole position of yourself and whatever else to get a second hand on it.
Hi Dale, another possible difference is battery life. Cheaper mics sometimes have significant batttery drain even when apparently off. I believe it has something to do with the encoder technology. Maybe others who are more knowlegeable can explain. Bob.
absolutely in my school shop we got harbor freight mics and the battery ran out in a week or so. we hardly used them too as that kinda measurement is uncommon. the worst part is as the battery looses charge it gets less accurate if that makes sense. I only buy dial after working with cheap digitals.... hf is usually 2thou off everytime too
You know my uncle told me same thing that his HF calibers eat through batteries like crazy! Mine never needed battery replaced in 4 years and I used the heck out of it! Like measuring thousands and thousands of cases for trimming. I think they probably used different vendors because my first set was also a LOT more smoother than 2nd one I bought.
The great debate seems to be exclusively for hobbyists, for professionals its a given. Also conciser these three points: 1- if you use the same micrometer to measure mating features then accuracy is more or less irrelevant. 2- show me a design that a hobbyist would use that requires sub-thousandths tolerances, even the sliding/press threshold is near 0.001". 3- HF's selection stops at the basic, Mitutoyo has all kinds of special features available (non-rotating spindles, various grades, form factors, ect.) Sorry I don't get it but, it must be a pet-peeve of more than a few people about the Box - make a prototype, have china start banging them out, and sell them!
I think the Harbor freight micrometer will most likely stop working long before the Mitutoyo, but the accuracy is very surprising for the price. My first micrometer was the one from Harbor freight. I recently got a set of Starrett 436.1 mics and the HF one is 100% as accurate. And' I would think that the reason the spindle moves in and out more slowly on the HF is that it has more threads per inch than the Mitutoyo, which I think would only add to its accuracy.
One thing you may not have considered or noticed is that the HF mic is a lot thicker from one side to the other. That can keep you from being able to measure a short pin sticking out of a large plate, for instance. However, I am not really a brand name freak. Whatever works, works for me. All of my Mitutoyo mics are old school analog. The batteries are never dead when I go to use them, especially the bigger ones which get used rarely. I use a $8.00 HF electronic 6" caliper daily, and it gets rode hard and put away wet. The battery has been going about 3 years now. I guess the advice of how they die and the batteries don't last was bogus. The HF caliper even came with a spare battery, not needed yet. I also bought a spare HF caliper for another $8.00 on sale and with coupon, and it is still in the box unopened, not needed yet. Good tool, but I do not use it for precision measuring, more often for rough measuring, scribing, and comparing. Also have an assortment of dial and vernier calipers backing those up. I consider all electronic measuring tools to be throw away toys when they fail, and I find it difficult to spend hundreds on one.
+Paul Frederick I actually have two of them, both the same, one is unused. The HF p/n is 47257. The frame is stainless steel and the plastic is black. These were both bought 2-3 years ago for $9.99 each, less 25% with a coupon, plus tax. The one I am using is bulletproof so far...
I like that you always keep your little finger crooked through the frame; you drop those things a LOT less often that way. I wonder that you don't roll the thimble against your forearm for fast change of the opening. This was a trick shown me by my grandfather a long time ago, and I've seen it done by other old machinists. The only thing you have to be careful of is when you are approaching the end of travel - you really don't want to slam the spindle and anvil together. That's a good way to bend the frame and put the anvil out of parallel with the spindle. That motionless (in and out) ratchet thimble on the HF mike seems really useful. Now if someone would just make a mike to that design out of a sturdier (and more æsthetically pleasing) material.
You get what you pay for. I don't know too many Machinists that use the ratchet feature on their mics and I am one of them because once you get your feel down you don't need it. The tools I rely on are Mitutoyo and Starrett for measuring tools , Klein and Fluke for electrical work Mac and Snap on for Mechanics tools. The offshore tools that I do buy are things that will get broken easily like chisels or tools I will use only use one time.
I think a case can be made to keep both on hand. Use the cheap one for everyday use and the good one when it's important. Drop the cheap one on big deal but the good one would be a heartbreak.
I never understood the "speed" need on a mic. I mean just haw many times (in actual use) will you be running a mic from full open to full close where a couple seconds will make a big difference? Anyway, I love to comparison, Battery life may be worse since most of the "low price" digital items don't really shut off anything other than the display. (it is possible to install a small switch in them to shut off the battery). Plus one BIG difference, I won't lose sleep if I manage to drop the HF ones on the concrete...... (another advantage is that I wouldn't have an issue cutting one up to make a different tool out of it).
i bought the harbor freight one because I'm a mechanic and only use it occasionally when doing engine rebuilds. if I used it more though i probably would have gotten the mitutoyo just because of overall build quality. however I'm still really happy with it none the less
I completely agree with you on the boxes. Almost every Mitutoyo box I've seen is all warped and flimsy, not to mention they just feel so cheap. I don't want to sound like a fanboy of Starrett, but they certainly make the nicest cases by far. I mean if your spending so much on a precision instrument that will last many lifetimes, can't they supply you with a decent case to protect that investment. I refuse to keep the Mits i own in the boxes and have resorted to foam drawer liners cut to fit each Mic.
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As a police officer and hobby machinist, I wouldn't have this hobby if it weren't for cheap tools and machines. I know we are not to speak of HF out loud but I cant afford to spend $200 on calipers when $35 will do. Occasionally, I enjoy picking up name brand tools on ebay for a good price but it doesn't happen often. I don't live in a metro area so if I waited around for a good Hardinge lathe to go on sale I would still be waiting. Instead, I learned on a HF lathe and maybe one day I'll get lucky and some good American machine may find its way into my shop. Thanks for sharing your knowledge by the way.
yeah, being poor sucks. get a better job maybe.
@@Wat-Dat Wat a dick.
I always go to my local thrift stores and peruse their tool sections. A lot of time I have noticed that they have no idea what they have indicated by the countless micrometers in the bottom of a bin of c-clamps. Sometimes you’ll have to take a wire brush to some things or to calibrate some mic’s but its good practice. People who own tools and put them on eBay usually know what they have. Same thing with craigslist and facebook marketplace. But the thrift store is usually clueless and a lot of them, at least in my community, fund some needed services like hospice care or in home care for the disabled so the better the deal, the more I put in the donation jar at the front counter. Win-Win
ACAB, i'm sure your tolerances are as bad in the shop as they are professionally
6 years late reply sorry. but I like that you're an officer and your name is "oink" glad some people have a sense of humor.
Fortunately, as a retired Tool and Die Maker I still have my prized precision instruments that I used for 40+ years. These are a mix of Starrett and Mitutoyo calipers and Micrometers. The one one thing you didn't discuss was the "between the ears" satisfaction that comes from KNOWING that you have a quality product in your hand. Confidence! It means a lot to me whether I'm gaging a precision work piece or tool or fixing an old coaster wagon. I have to admit though, that the price difference would give pause to consider.
This video isn't for you. Doing t&d for 40 years no tool can be good enough. But for the vast number of hobbyist this video shows there's often little reason to literally throw money away chasing precision.
Some HF tools aren't this good, but many are at a ⅒ the price
For home hobbyist, Harbor Freight all the way. Most times in my shop, the machines far out pace the operator in tolerances.
+Arock PCB
LoL Me too
Most useful comparison. Higher end measuring tools are always nice but must say, for value the HF items are really not at all bad, if we accept any limitations. Certainly if one's budget is limited the HF stuff is an adequate alternative, and accuracy can be very acceptable.
+ChrisB257 I was buying the same kinds of imported tools from ENCO before Harbor Freight exploded all over the map.
For basic measuring tools for less intensive use, especially if you cannot write the purchase price off as a business expense on your taxes, the inexpensive imports can keep you going - or get you going where you might not have the money to buy the name brand widgets...
0 - 1" micrometers: I own a Brown & Sharp, a Mitutoyo, a high-quality Chinese with a vernier scale, and a very cheap Harbor Freight - they ALL WORK FINE! Most often I use the one that is closest at hand. I have personal preference for the Mitutoyo because my son purchased it for me as a gift. On the other hand, the Harbor Freight is easy to read and appears accurate although I've never done a side-by-side comparison with gauge blocks. Most importantly, get out there and USE YOUR TOOLS!
Out of the box, I would expect that both would work pretty good. The real challenge is how each of those mics hold up to the test of time. While I have not ever even held a Harbor Freight micrometer, my experience with most of the cheap import tools is that they work great for a little while but usually crap out on you right when you need them the most. For the home shop machinist that might use the tool a couple of times a year, they have their place, but if you are anything close to a serious home shop machinist, I think you are smarter to invest in higher quality tools. When I was young, first getting started, and did not have much money at all, I bought some import items. Most all of them have been replaced - not because I just wanted to, but because they failed the test of time. Now days, my first choice is to buy quality once rather than junk over and over again. In the long run, an investment in a quality tool will be cheaper because you rarely have to replace them. What would be really interesting is to do some drop tests and see how far of a drop it takes to kill each of the micrometers - see how they hold up to some abuse and then decide which is the better deal!
Are you giving to donate the mics for the testing😀😀😀 thanks for your comments
+Metal Tips and Tricks (Dale Derry) Dale, what are those 3 square boxes supposed to mean?
+just tim They are emoji smiley faces that your device is incorrectly showing as boxes for some reason, maybe your device doesn't have an emoji keyboard feature or something but for some reason it's incapable of reproducing the images......
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org
I'll reply, going to have to go with Mitutoyo. Bought my 0-1 mics 20 years ago and would still trust them against a Sheffield on a .0001 tolerance. Of course I'm not a home hobbyist. Plus my question would be on the grade of blocks you are using. I'd bet if you used blocks on Sheffield to calibrate, Mitutoyo comes out ahead. That being said if I was a hobbyist I'd go with HF.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Are you some sort of brand snob by any chance? I suspect so. I have expensive tools and cheap tools too. I have had my expensive tools crap out quicker and more often than my cheaper tools, especially my dial calipers. Out of all the tools I have bought at Harbor Freight, I have only had to return 2 of them. And I got no grief and great service because cheap or expensive, I always invest in an extended service plan. I have been a tech for 47 years and a machinist and gunsmith for 2, and I firmly believe service contracts are worth their weight in gold. Things always break down when the factory warranty goes. What I save having to replace any tool without one is more costly than buying it at the time of purchase. The first thing I do before depending on any tool for precise measurements especially on a gun, is to calibrate them using a set of Starrett gauging blocks since they are the industry standard. You said you never held a Harbor Freight micrometer, but you lump it in with unfounded generalizations. To me this the sign of a brand snob and a bad one at that. One reason along with the fact you like to hear your own voice that I no longer watch your videos.
Great video! Another point to add is where the cheapo's fall flat on there face is the battery life. You'll get ten times the battery life out of mitutoyo.
Thanks
Andrew
I never thought about that
+Andrew Podaca And the batteries are *cheap* these days - I can keep a lot of $0.10 batteries in my supply drawer...
If I were in a position where changing the batteries was costing me serious downtime, that would be a point to consider.
For home hobby use, $35 is affordable, while $200+ is cutting into my budget for other tooling...
Your mileage may vary...
The Toolmiser Also, the cheaper micrometers and calipers have no way of knowing when the battery is low, and can give false readings because of a low battery. That's a way to scrap parts
Some of those cheap tools you have to take the battery out. My HF digital caliper is that way. It doesn't have an off button so its always on and waiting for you to hit a button or move it even though the screen is off. So I just take the battery out when I'm not using it and they last a long time. Kind of annoying, not sure why they didn't put a power button on them.
Love the unbiased review! as a garage mechanic home machinist sometimes it's nice to know that the cheap stuff performs well enough for the few times I'll use it.
I am a hobbyist and part of the enjoyment of the hobby is working with quality tools. Although some high-end tools like the Mitutoyo ceramic gauge blocks are truly the reserve of the professional, using middle range tools (Mitutoyo micrometers for example) is a HUGE step up from Harbor Freight. Except their rolling toolboxes, I have never seen a Harbor Freight tool that did not feel cheap and disappointing. I buy once, take good care of my tools, and know I will enjoy those tools EVERY TIME I pick them up. Knipex and NWS pliers, Wera and Wiha screwdrivers, Lie Nielsen planes, Festool power tools for woodworking etc. I would not hire a pro with HF tools - for me at least investing in quality is the minimum of self-respect and pride in one's craft. Your mileage may vary.
good point about not hiring someone with higher end stuff. I have mitutoyo and starrett for my dial bore gauges for the outboards I rebuild. I had, years ago, bought a cheap one on ebay for $70, and it got me started, but seeing that gauge needle bounce low and high from 0 from time to time made me think twice. Just feels sloppy, even if the measurements are adequate for what i need. attitude is everything.
The home guy ain’t making parts for nuke plants or the military.
2 videos the same week! Jackpot! I enjoy your comparison videos. Nice to know you can still get an accurate measurement on a budget.
I'm glad you liked it. I'm going to try to put out 2 videos a week. Wish me luck.
Many thanks Dale.
I don't wanna take anything from other guys that have done this same review but it is nice to hear the opinion of a true professional as well.
I don't have the HF digital Mic, but I have close to 10 of the HF 6" digital calipers. I'm good for misplacing my calipers and spending 20 mins looking for them. Now I have 10 of them dispersed throughout the shop. All 10 of them probably cost me under $150 total with the coupons and sales. For 90% of what I do the calipers are accurate enough. For the remaining 10% of the work I do, I have a full set of 0-12" mics that get pulled out when they're needed.
As far as batteries go, I bought 50 of those watch batteries on ebay for under 10 bucks. That was 2 years ago and I still have 40 of them left. The cheapies might be a tad harder on batteries than the more expensive mics, but in all honesty ,I ain't going to walmart and paying $3 for a single battery when I can buy them in bulk online for one tenth the price.
Great points Dale! You would think that for the price Mitutoyo would come with a nice box and preferably one made of wood. I remember my grandpa running the barrel of his mic along his forearm to quickly adjust the opening, which is one thing that you cannot do with the Harbor Freight model. Anyway, I wonder how the Shars version compares to both of these. Thanks for the consistency, time, and effort as it is truly appreciated.
dale, i have had a hf just like yours for 2 yrs and still works perfect. i also have a mitutoyo and hardley use it. a micrometer stand really helps for accurite readings
Great comparison to this two micrometers, I have the Harbor Freight one (the one with 3 buttons) and I like it very much, thanks for sharing this video.
The company I work for has Mitutoyo micrometers like the one in the video that are over 20 years old. I check them every month for accuracy and repair any that need it and I can say that they very few of over 200 or so micrometers at our company need any sort of repair. The batteries, if you buy the silver oxide ones, will last well over a year if left on all the time and some of our operators do that.
Also, noting on the comments in the video about the ratchet, Mitutoyo do a variety of types and you can order one with either that you fancy, check out page 2 on their pdf ... www.mitutoyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/2119-Product-Fund.pdf ...he has a ratchet stop on the video and the Harbour Freight is a ratchet thimble.
Great job Dale !!!!
I got my harbour freight mic on sale for 19.95 when they had one of their parking lot sales it is a little slow but the display is nice and big . Thanks
Great tip, Thanks Dale
My pleasure
Thank you, this helps a lot.
Great practical video. This is the kind of thing a home shop can use. On my budget I could have one brand name or a shop full of useful tools. Considering that brand names don't get you much in this day those with extreme budgets pushing the hype live in a different world than many of us. I can not put all my resources in a very limited array of tooling if I want to actually do any machining. Doug
Being a former industrial multicraftman I appreciate the value of a good tool. I hate to but often had to abuse a tool to get the job done. Good ones hold up, the imports usually fold up. Now I am retired on a much smaller income. I wanted to include a home machine shop into my hobbies so I bought an import lathe and import milling machine. Most of my tooling is from imports. I love my new hobby. If it weren't for harbor freight and others, I wouldn't be able to afford my new hobby. Now I have more time and don't have to abuse anything and everything holds up fairly well. There are some duds out there. I love good tools but their price usually forbids me from buying very many. Most of us hobbyist make out as well as our means allow.
great point
GREAT BROTHER THANK YOU VERY MUCH 👍
good video.a lot of "machinists" here. if you do not own a certified set of block gauges, sit down. they are (suppose) to be your surest reference, to which you check your mics/caps to. you can all pretend that your work is .0005 all day everyday in your garage, yet a precision shop does work in a fully controlled environment for a reason. if every thing had to be manufactured at such precise levels, cars would only last 6 months. not praising HF but its two different worlds when you're a home gamer (even at high skill levels) and a professional.
I agree with you Dale. Nice job.
Dale, thank you for pointing out these practical differences between brands. In a perfect world, both suppliers will take note and at least consider incorporating the best features of the other.
That's like being first place in a marathon and looking back to what what running shoes last place is wearing.
I think the video is useful as people are sharing ideas and experiences, like how to roll the thimble on your forearm for rapid thimble action. But I would not have thought the Mitutoyo micro shown in the video cost $200. I have the same older model and they don't go for $200 second hand. I read all the posted comments before posting this and there are excellent points and ideas about how people use their micros.
I have two Mitutoyos and one Starrett micrometer, bought on eBay in very good to excellent condition. So I am at least their second owner and they are still working superbly. The analog Mitu cost me $30 with shipping and came in a mahogany wood box. The digital Mitu micro (same as in the vid) came in a bigger mahogany box with a Mitu digital caliper for $80 with shipping.
My Starrett 221 super precision direct reading analog micrometer came in a deluxe case that isn't available anymore. This was a gift but I found out how much it cost: $86.67 plus shipping. All three work flawlessly. Do you know which ones I use most? The analogs because they fit better in my hand and are their anvils are slimmer. I love the Starrett when precision turning. It might be a good idea to get to try different makes and models to get a feel for what works best for each person.
Daniel
FYI you can get mitutoyo mics with the racheting stop. What you have is called a rachet thimble. The rachet stop models have the larger OD as the rachet, while still having the thimble as the speeder for quicker movements
I'll stick with Mitutoyo My oldest one is 40 years old and is still accurate.
+carabela125
:-)
Dale, I have the same one. I have grown to just love the ratchet position. In comparison it is absolutely spot on with my new Starrett...out to 5 place! I too am partial to Mitutoyo stuff but, I gotta tell ya...that HF is a great deal. Thanks for the great videos! -Tom
I just graduated from CNC Machinist school. I have been testing the Harbor Freight Caliper, Micrometer, Dial indicators, etc against the "Good", "Expensive" brands at school for the last year. The Harbor Freight products are surprisingly accurate and have held up over time. Now whether they will last 20 years, I cannot tell. But at the price I paid I will not cry a river if I drop and break one.
Just be careful. When I first got into the trade I bought a SPI digital mic from MSC. It seemed nice enough and passed the QC department's calibration. The particular model had no on/off button. You would just turn the thimble to "wake it up". What I found out the hard way was that every time you woke it up it would miss a tenth or two of rotation. Depending on how you woke up the mic your parts could measure big or small. We had to turn parts into inspection for in process checks at set intervals. My hear sank when my in process part came back under size on a +/-.0005 dimension. That mic was quickly junked and replaced with a Starett mic. The cheaper analog/dial tools might be ok, but the digital stuff I don't trust at all.
Great video
I just need something to measure the thickness of rotors on vehicles, HF looks like the best bet!
I started out with SPI as my budget friendly tools and they have great quality and longevity, then over time upgraded to starrett, that has been the most successful venture for me in terms of accuracy and over all quality
When measuring to the limit of accuracy, put the micrometer in a micrometer stand, so your hot little hand doesn't heat it up and change the reading. ^_*
I'm a hobbyist and I do use harbor freight tools like these. I would be nice to afford really good equipment but at this point I can not justify it. maybe someday of something I come up with is a marketable item and I have income to justify better I would do so very happily. Like you say this is a comparison for us hobbyist mainly and as one Thank you for the comparisons. It is very helpful to know what I can expect from these tools
Thanks for the review. Shame the nearest harbor freight is 6500 miles away from me
Great comparison. I have a set of shars micrometers that I got as a gift and they have the ratchet in the same place as the harbor freight which I prefer greatly over the end of the knob.
I like it too.
Thanks for a honest comparison and opinion. I have used the china digital calipers for 20 yrs almost it seems. I recently bought a Starrett just to take any doubt out of my measurements. Its a lot more money but comes with a nice box assembled by Americans but guess what ?, it reads the same as my china cheap ones. I can sleep better knowing I'm correct tho. The China metals aren't quite as good as ours for strength tho in most cases a USA wrench is stronger, but for these common measuring tools I think they are good for 90% of average home shops and machinists . Especially starting out, we all would love $20,000.00 worth of Mitutoyo and Starrett but that money is better spent on other things that a guy starting out will need. Maybe buy 1 good Mitutoyo or Starrett to check your other cheap ones by like I did. Just an opinion.
what's cheap comes out expensive ,in other words if you buy cheap they wont last long ,that O. D micrometer is a good example all the assembly is plastic ,oil or any other type of coolant it will destroy it, all my micrometers are mitutoyo and i bought them about 10 years ago and still working very good thanks
For those interested I picked up the IP65 mitutoyo mic from a guy on ebay ideal precision for 126 delivered. Not a fake either and was exactly as described BNIB. Totally worth the cash IMO considering these things will more than likely still be reading accurately when I am in the dirt.
Thanks for Sharing😀
Hi Dale:
Does the Mitutoyo move by the standard .025" per rev of the thimble? And what is the distance moved by 1 rev of the thimble on the HF?
For someone who has only an occasional need for certain specialized tools, such as myself working on home projects, I've saved hundreds of dollars buying Harbor Freight tools. On the other hand, if my job, reputation or an expensive piece of equipment were to depend on a tool's accuracy, I wouldn't even consider walking into Harbor Freight's doors.
coffeemaddan What if it's a revolving door? Question. If a revolving door rotates in a counterclockwise direction as you are walking into it here in the US, does it rotate in a clockwise direction in England since they drive to the left instead of to the right? :)
coffeemaddan I know that the water in a toilet bowl will spin in the opposite direction down under, so you may have something there.
Well, now that this issue has been cleared away by the use of the Coriolis flush. I'm really glad that the Coriolis effect doesn't suggest that we cease to use toilets in protest of the distribution of misinformation given to countless numbers of science students through the years, including myself.
Now if we could politely convince the world that driving with the steering wheel on the left side of a vehicle allows the majority of the world's population, which is right handed, the ability to shift gears with their favored right hand. We no longer need to ride on the left to keep our right hand available to swing a weapon, as was necessary when riding upon a horse long ago. Having the steering on the left would also standardize the rules of the road when crossing certain countries' boarders.
As for revolving doors, again those that are in the majority of being right handed, will naturally prefer a door that rotates in a counterclockwise direction. This would be due to the fact that right handed people have a natural tendency to bear to the right and to push on a door with their favored hand.
For those people throughout the world who don't have toilets, there will be no experimentation with the flow of water. They will just have to accept the information that was kindly provided, as I too will concede that I was duped many years ago.
Agreed that HF does have it's place. I got a 3/4" drive socket set.. did the job, and I have it for the future. I've only used one or two sockets maybe 3x.
For something that see's occasional use. it is, what it is. A lot less of an investment vs. Snap-on or Mac, etc...
Generalizing: HF is good for one time use / consumable tools.
As a professional engineer/tech, I have much better stuff in my boxes to rely on.
John Galt Totally agreed. Their tools are not for the purpose of abuse in an environment where they would be exposed to constant commercial use. I sure wish that they would make a small beam or dial type torque wrench that would read from 0-30 lbs/in. These are what is required to test the pinion bearing preload on an automotive type of rear differential. I had to send off for one and it wasn't cheap. I'll only use it a couple of times a year, if that often. They do have a "click" type of torque wrench in lbs/in, but their range of calibration is too high.
Harbor Freight has their place in the tool world. The problem is that people seem to forget that in most cases you get what you pay for. I was a professional mechanic for over 45 years and I used and still have tools that my father used during his career. They are now close to 100 years old.
I might have to buy one to use at home. I use 20+ different mitutoyos at work but for someone not doing expensive parts with .0003 tolerances, it would work great .
Mitutoyo rules, Japan rules, years and years of pure accuracy and quality.
Harbor Freight can get the job done now and again, but there is a reason you will find name brands in a fab shop. Reliability. I'll buy a few odds and ends like wire wheels for my grinder at HF but not grinding disks, etc.
With the mitatoyo, you should compare its digital readout to its analog readout on the barrel. And see if the half ten thou is accurate.
Totally agree about the Mitutoyo boxes. Mine are all horribly warped.
Agreed that the boxes are rather cheap.... but, once I start using the tool it rarely goes back in the box... lol
Those cheap tools will do mostly the job right, probably wear a little faster, but, for hobby use, you'll never see the end.
Even in my everyday use, I often use a cheap $15 digital vernier, if it dies who cares, for a tiny more accuracy I get the Mitutoyo set...
And if ==everything is at the same temp==, the tools, the part, to measure and the references, it will give you the correct reading... ;)
It's hard to beat the value of cheap tools
To make HF one spin faster grab the metal rod (forgot what it's called) and spin that instead, it's faster and convenient. I paid less than $20 for my HF, the problem I see is that when you calibrate it it looses it's zero when you turn off often which means you have to close it all the way to make sure you are calibrated to zero otherwise I am very happy with it.
Thank for making this video
For $35 having both scales SAE and Metric already is a huge gift. If you wanted that to have on classic analog ones you would need two micrometers one SAE and other Metric but those are two different tools the require calibration. Anyways yes Mitutoyo has a reputation and build quality and if you have one you would think you know more than others but its just a lie to make yourself feel more confident. Same way there are people buying huge trucks but never ever transporting anything..
you didn't use the clicker on the mitutoyo when measuring 1in block would that make a difference.
edmundo oliver yes
GREAT JOB!!!!
I suspect that WalMart, HF and others like them are successful based in part on the 'good enough' principle; they sell stuff that is 'good enough' for the price. For most of us, price is the bottom line, whether we throw longevity, reliability, durability etc into the calculation or not. Thanks for taking the time to create, edit & post this vid; really useful info. 👍👍👍
Thanks for your comment. I think your right.
I'm shocked Dale. You spelled "you're" wrong. We are talking about accuracy here aren't we? . . . lol
When i was a carpenter i bought tools that last because down time cost money. However as a lathe newbie hobbyist you could buy 5 harbor freight mics over the years. For a hobbyist it may make sense to buy a lot of cheap tools to see if we stick with the hobby instead of paying 5 times the money for lots and lots of tools.
Good comment
I personally think it comes down to just what the hobby / home machinist is working on, i.e. the wife's blender or maybe something on the car vs a machinist (machine shop) who may have a contract requiring a very close tolerance.
You certainly don't need a $200.00 dollar piece of equipment to work on the wife's blender or any other home project(s,) unless that will make you feel warm and fuzzy to own the high price equipment.
Not meant to be a put down to either piece of equipment, just how I see the different situations, i.e., night vs day.
Thanks for the video, and like you said, it will be up to the viewer to assess his/her needs.
Great comments
I'll take the Sterrett for myself if you please. FYI, for my toolbox at home (no machining) I picked up a very nice digital vernier caliper at Home Depot fairly cheap, works like a charm but I'm not looking for thousandths there so it's great for rough measurements.
Hi Dale, I think your 1st comment directed your many viewers in the right direction..."which one is best for the home machinist" and after your demo I am sure that most will go for the Harbour freight mic, please keep the vids coming and pay no heed to the negative vibes.
+rich kellow That's what he talks about in every comparison video. If you do this for a hobby and dont need to make fine work, the cheaper end stuff is good for that. If you rely on the need to make the part work the first time and everytime after the moment it leaves your shop, then purchase the tools that would serve you.
The price difference would buy a lot of toys for the home shop.
I'm not a HF basher by any means, but if you're doing something just for fun, sometimes its worth getting the Starrett, B&S, or Mitutoyo because they feel so much better in your and are so pleasurable to use. I find the HF measuring tools get flakey after a while and become frustrating.
I have a collection of both high quality expensive and lower quality budget measuring instruments,most of the work i do does not require super precise targets so i use the budget tools most of the time which are perfectly sufficient for the task at hand.I take out the Mitutoyo's for the jobs that need that confident measurement.
There has been (Like many other machinists have had) where i dropped calipers or had something topple over on to a mic and kill it so to replace it with another cheapy one is not a problem......So my general rule in my home workshop for the expensive instruments is if i don't need to use them i don't.
Great point of view.
your comment is correct for the use for a "home machinist".i could understand using the harbor freight stuff in your garage but if im gonna use any type of tool to make a living be it a set of mechanics tools or a set of machinist tools im certaintly not gonna make my first stop at harbor freight.i defy anyone to watch a nascar or nhra event and point out any team using a nice big set of" U.S. General" tools which are harbor freights top brand.
+toolmaker19
Agree with your comment :-)
Dale I love your comparison type videos. I have to admit that I use off brand or cheap tooling as well, but they have their place as you well know. When you're working the part down to size that is really where the cheap tool has it's place because it is used over and over again and is tossed about in the process. I use the Name Brand tool for the Final Inspection on the part and thus it is usually only used at the end and then put back in it's box and put away. If I drop or break the cheap tool, sure its a bummer but I didn't lose the tool I really care about.
Great Video and I hope you do more of these.
Cheers,
John
You and I work the same way😀
I dont mind cheap tools but it also depends on what im using it for, when using Genuine Mitutoyo gear you never have to worry about it being inaccurate, when using my cheap measuring tool i always get a Mitutoyo just to see if its accurate 😑
Well you asked Dale.
For me, the Mits, almost everything I have for measuring equipment is there brand. For gauging I still rely on Starrett for those. Screw pitch gauges, feeler gauges etc. I don't know about right now, but even a year or two ago the Starrett digital equipment was judged by most over on PM as inferior to the Mitutoyo. And battery life? I get an easy 4+ years out of the proper SR-44's. Want a really good set of digital calipers. Try the 6" Mit solar powered. Finest calipers I've had in my hands by far including the Mit analogs. And no dead battery's unless you work in the dark.
Mitutoyo boxes. (sigh) they ought to hang there heads in shame. You are so right Dale. I bought a Mit digital indicator.The one that's powered with a wall wart. 543-552A Inside the cardboard box there's a paper thin (no joke) blow molded container that has some really rough shapes to take the indicator, wall wart and manual. Your 1" Mit mike box is a Rolls Royce quality improvement over this. At best it's a good method of protecting the indicator from shipping damage. In no way is it any kind of storage container. The indicator is the very best I've used, but the box? This just isn't the type of indicator you leave out all the time. It needs a damn storage box Mitutoyo. Oh yeah, and when I did very politely email there head office about this problem, I got exactly zero response back.
Not sure about that horrible fright mike Dale, but my mitutoyo's come with a test certificate that shows a graph of where the few really minor inaccuracy's are. But I'll freely admit $35 is a steal. IMO good quality tools tend to get looked after. There accuracy and lifespan is usually lengthened by that. Cheap tools no matter how good are used for about everything. So side by side in my shop the Mits will be and will stay accurate for much longer.
But good video as always Dale, apology's for the rant. It really did feel good tho. :-)
Interesting, I like good quality tools but as a hobby machinist who uses it 2 or 3 times a week maybe I would consider the cheaper one. Thanks for sharing.
Totally agree with you on the Mitutoyo Cases. They suck! They get all warped and the fake wood grain just collects dirt and grime easier. I love Mitutoyos Mics but the cases are garbage. I have foam cutouts in my drawers and I just keep the cases at home in case I need to send them off for repair or sell them so all my cases stay mint.
IP rating is what separates them. We have went through several harbor freights due to coolant contamination. I have Mitutoyo's from 6 years ago that still read perfectly. Depends on the environment!
I have a mitutoyo 0-1 micrometer from the 1970's (purely manual, non-digital, of course) that has a beautiful case. Black with some gold colored trim, nice cloth flocked interior. Similar to what you'd expect to see a nice watch or piece of jewelry come in.
:-)
Just curios. What class are the gauge blocks? Class B may have a +-0.00005 tolerance. Which is fine as long as the operator uses the cert sheet to get the real size when checking tools.
Thanks for the comparison. As a spare time engine tuner I ask myself if it is really necessary to spend x-times more for a brand measuring tool. For machine shops it's no question to go with best possible quality, fast working tools which last as long as possible.
I personally only buy the best when Im going to used it a lot. :-)
I agree absolutely. When it's about tools like mechanic ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers etc. only the best quality is acceptable. No mather if for frequent or permanent use. Otherwise "cheap" can become very expensive.
This is a very unbiased test and that is the way it should be. I like both micrometers Dale. Harbour freight is for daily use. Keep the Mitutoyo for the lab. Love engineering tools. Lovely presentation. Thank you.
Thanks for your comment :-)
Great video and I appreciate the knowledge on the subject. I'm a locksmith and for years I've used the Tumico thickness dial mic that I inherited from my grandfather for measuring pins to decode interchangeable cores, etc... Just recently I went to use it and it completely locked up. I know it wasn't dropped, I have NO idea why it's locked up. I'm currently looking for a pro who can fix it (as I don't want to risk making it worse)... but in the mean time I NEED to be able to take measurements... I went down to HF today and got this exact model. Now honestly, I don't need to take measurements to .00005, for what I need .0005 is fine, but it was on sale... Got it home and tried it out and so far so good.... I don't have high hopes that it'll last 60+ years like the Tumico but it's nice to know that I got at least a "fair" to "pretty good" tool for the money.
HI Derek, I know a lot of people don't want to admit that is a good tool, But for the price I think its an excellent one. :-)
hey Dale,
thanks for that comparison. you did a pretty reasonable, unbiased presentation that highlights the good and the bad of both tools.
so now i'm gonna throw my 2 cents worth in: i have to concur with Keith Ruckers take in the test time. we have a set of mitutoyu calipers in the shop that are pretty beat up but still very usable and accurate.
personally i wouldn't buy either one as i can recall from my apprenticeship years that mitutoyu was considered to be a cheap asian brand and looked down upon by my mentors. i avoid digital calipers and micrometers like the plague and use them only to get a quick and dirty measurement, but not for accuracy. to get that i use tried true verniers or dial calipers from Mauser (yes, the makers of Mauser rifles) and Mahr or KS micrometers.
i recently acquired a set of imperial micrometers that was made by H&K for the Bundeswehr (german army) that leave nothing to be desired.
the outfit i work for has bought several digital calipers (the cheapie chinese ones)and they last up to about a year and then go totally henshit. they literally fall apart.
when it comes to tools, sure, a guy has to look at economy, but when you can get a decent used micrometer from Starrett, Lufkin or Brown&Sharpe for about the same money as new horror freight tools it starts to become a wash.
keep up the good work!
cheers
mike
interesting, thanks for the video
+krazziee2000
Glad you liked it.
A few more selling factors are not only battery life but also, when the voltage starts to drop off the Mitutoyo's will tell you. The cheapo's I have come into contact with do not. This is a BIG deal because of how digital mic's measure, low voltage can throw off the actual measurement and give a bad reading. The price of entry for the expensive ones is true to form consistency.
Andrew Perlik
Hi Dale. Thanks for doing this video. Just a few comments. SPI IP54 on sale at MSC for $100 looks like the HF model that you evaluated. I do not know what model Mitutoyo was evaluated, but the function of the extra buttons could be a discriminator. For example, a rezeroing feature would be very useful, and worth extra money to me.
I'll sacrifice and buy high end measuring tools. All my Mitutoyo, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe equipment is 30-60 years old and still going strong. I bought a couple cheap dial calipers years ago and regretted it soon after. Buy once, cry once.
Many times what matters is repeat-ability not absolute accuracy.
That being said the HF look surprisingly nice. Thanks
+Daniel Wahl
good point
My first job out of college was at an aluminum sheet and plate mill, quality control department. We we provided micrometers and 12` tapes. I can assure you the digital is not faster once you learn to add nor more accurate. Vernier scales work fine too without a battery, just getting hard to find.
Great Video, Dale what I've found is just what everyone else is saying they dont stand the test of time, but if you take care of HF tool it like you would a Mitutoyo or Starret you will get a fairly long life out of them and when I have one of my kids working in the shop I'm probably not going to give them a $250 mic to check something. I've used HF in my home shop and if you do a complete project using them the error is relative. But all in all I have like you A and B tools also. But for the guy just getting into machining as a hobby well you have to start somewhere. Thanks for sharing
I have two Mitutoyo calipers that are over 15 years old and a half dozen cheaper units. After 5 years, all the cheaper units have given up their ghosts. The Mitutoyo units are still working great. My advice to the home hobbiest is to buy once for something you will use forever and don't waste money trying to save a hundred bucks.
I have a number of Mitutoyo measurement tools that are soon to be 50 years old. Doubt that HF stuff would survive that long. Retired now, so they are toys in my garage, but earned their keep when I was a prototype machinist. Have Starrett and Brown and Sharp. Good stuff. Actually have HF calipers. Only trust them to ID drills as they have a fraction setting and I think decimal.
I was at HF with my boy and he was needing tooling for his new lathe and mill we unboxed the 3 Digital mikes they had and all three would not close with the friction knob and would bind, I ended up with a Mitutoyo for about $10 more on ebay auction and my boy bought an Igageing digital mike which is not much more then the HF and performs great. Without going outside I believe my Mitutoyo has the friction thumb drive on the same place as the HF.
+Ed Ginsberg
HF Tool are alway a gamble
I have that Harbor Freight one as my first and only micrometer. I'm very happy that you've shown it is accurate. The only issue I've had with mine is that early on it seemed to drain the battery when stored and off, so now I remove the battery every time I put it away. Mildly annoying but not a deal breaker. I'd be curious if others have had that issue or not.
That's common with those. I got tired of it and bought a Starrett.
@@jimadams8182 bummer
Hey Dale! I alway watch you videos on a playstation so I can't comment. Just happened to be on a computer for this one. Enjoy all the videos! Good quality! Effort shows!
Thank you
How much faster is it really when you have to get two hands on it Everytime? If your situated with one hand and need to change the whole position of yourself and whatever else to get a second hand on it.
Hi Dale, another possible difference is battery life. Cheaper mics sometimes have significant batttery drain even when apparently off. I believe it has something to do with the encoder technology. Maybe others who are more knowlegeable can explain. Bob.
absolutely in my school shop we got harbor freight mics and the battery ran out in a week or so. we hardly used them too as that kinda measurement is uncommon. the worst part is as the battery looses charge it gets less accurate if that makes sense. I only buy dial after working with cheap digitals.... hf is usually 2thou off everytime too
Ave did a video on that I think
You know my uncle told me same thing that his HF calibers eat through batteries like crazy! Mine never needed battery replaced in 4 years and I used the heck out of it! Like measuring thousands and thousands of cases for trimming. I think they probably used different vendors because my first set was also a LOT more smoother than 2nd one I bought.
The great debate seems to be exclusively for hobbyists, for professionals its a given. Also conciser these three points: 1- if you use the same micrometer to measure mating features then accuracy is more or less irrelevant. 2- show me a design that a hobbyist would use that requires sub-thousandths tolerances, even the sliding/press threshold is near 0.001". 3- HF's selection stops at the basic, Mitutoyo has all kinds of special features available (non-rotating spindles, various grades, form factors, ect.)
Sorry I don't get it but, it must be a pet-peeve of more than a few people about the Box - make a prototype, have china start banging them out, and sell them!
I think the Harbor freight micrometer will most likely stop working long before the Mitutoyo, but the accuracy is very surprising for the price. My first micrometer was the one from Harbor freight. I recently got a set of Starrett 436.1 mics and the HF one is 100% as accurate. And' I would think that the reason the spindle moves in and out more slowly on the HF is that it has more threads per inch than the Mitutoyo, which I think would only add to its accuracy.
+vespadano1979
Thanks for your comment.
One thing you may not have considered or noticed is that the HF mic is a lot thicker from one side to the other. That can keep you from being able to measure a short pin sticking out of a large plate, for instance. However, I am not really a brand name freak. Whatever works, works for me. All of my Mitutoyo mics are old school analog. The batteries are never dead when I go to use them, especially the bigger ones which get used rarely. I use a $8.00 HF electronic 6" caliper daily, and it gets rode hard and put away wet. The battery has been going about 3 years now. I guess the advice of how they die and the batteries don't last was bogus. The HF caliper even came with a spare battery, not needed yet. I also bought a spare HF caliper for another $8.00 on sale and with coupon, and it is still in the box unopened, not needed yet. Good tool, but I do not use it for precision measuring, more often for rough measuring, scribing, and comparing. Also have an assortment of dial and vernier calipers backing those up. I consider all electronic measuring tools to be throw away toys when they fail, and I find it difficult to spend hundreds on one.
+Paul Frederick I actually have two of them, both the same, one is unused. The HF p/n is 47257. The frame is stainless steel and the plastic is black. These were both bought 2-3 years ago for $9.99 each, less 25% with a coupon, plus tax. The one I am using is bulletproof so far...
I like that you always keep your little finger crooked through the frame; you drop those things a LOT less often that way.
I wonder that you don't roll the thimble against your forearm for fast change of the opening. This was a trick shown me by my grandfather a long time ago, and I've seen it done by other old machinists. The only thing you have to be careful of is when you are approaching the end of travel - you really don't want to slam the spindle and anvil together. That's a good way to bend the frame and put the anvil out of parallel with the spindle.
That motionless (in and out) ratchet thimble on the HF mike seems really useful. Now if someone would just make a mike to that design out of a sturdier (and more æsthetically pleasing) material.
You get what you pay for. I don't know too many Machinists that use the ratchet feature on their mics and I am one of them because once you get your feel down you don't need it. The tools I rely on are Mitutoyo and Starrett for measuring tools , Klein and Fluke for electrical work Mac and Snap on for Mechanics tools. The offshore tools that I do buy are things that will get broken easily like chisels or tools I will use only use one time.
I think a case can be made to keep both on hand. Use the cheap one for everyday use and the good one when it's important. Drop the cheap one on big deal but the good one would be a heartbreak.
That the way I use them.
I never understood the "speed" need on a mic. I mean just haw many times (in actual use) will you be running a mic from full open to full close where a couple seconds will make a big difference? Anyway, I love to comparison, Battery life may be worse since most of the "low price" digital items don't really shut off anything other than the display. (it is possible to install a small switch in them to shut off the battery). Plus one BIG difference, I won't lose sleep if I manage to drop the HF ones on the concrete...... (another advantage is that I wouldn't have an issue cutting one up to make a different tool out of it).
😀
i bought the harbor freight one because I'm a mechanic and only use it occasionally when doing engine rebuilds. if I used it more though i probably would have gotten the mitutoyo just because of overall build quality. however I'm still really happy with it none the less
I completely agree with you on the boxes. Almost every Mitutoyo box I've seen is all warped and flimsy, not to mention they just feel so cheap. I don't want to sound like a fanboy of Starrett, but they certainly make the nicest cases by far. I mean if your spending so much on a precision instrument that will last many lifetimes, can't they supply you with a decent case to protect that investment. I refuse to keep the Mits i own in the boxes and have resorted to foam drawer liners cut to fit each Mic.
thanks very interesting
😀
You can buy the mititoyo with the other style thimble?