First Look: The New PREDATOR 224 vs the 212! Test and Comparison!
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
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In-depth tear down -
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In this video we test out the newest engine in the Harbor Freight Predator lineup, the Predator 224! These claim 6.6 hp and 10lbft of torque, and we wanted to do some real world tests to see how it compares to a stock Predator 212. We first do some spec comparisons, take a look inside, then mount each engine to the same Rascal minibike frame to do some test. We did a 260 ft drag race and a top speed run. We made 3 attempts for each and averaged them out to find the average 260ft race time and top speed. The results are pretty interesting!
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Timestamps:
Intro 00:00 - 01:30
Spec Comparison 01:30 - 03:39
Unboxing 03:39 - 05:29
Tear Down 05:29 - 08:37
212 Drag Race 08:37 - 09:26
212 Top Speed 09:26 - 11:01
Mounting the 224 11:01 - 12:14
224 Drag Race 12:14 - 12:42
224 Top Speed 12:42 - 13:54
Results 13:54 - 17:21
Outro 17:21 - 17:39 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Be interesting to build both motors identically with the same parts to verify just how much the bigger stroke helps in performance.
#redbeardsgarage is going to do that
Longer stroke definitely means more torque
Just bought one of each and its upgrade timne and maybe get a go kart comparision
@@icelover3 Well, the increased displacement means more torque, so you're technically correct. But there is no correlation between stroke length and torque when displacement is the same.
@@limprooster3253 I disagree.
Thank you for watching everyone, let us know if you’d like to see us build these engines and do more testing, or throw other engines in the mix!
I'd like to see it built up, valve springs, a cam, and exhaust and intake work would definitely wake it up, and I believe the the bit extra displacement will start to make more of a difference in power levels as compared to the 212 built the same way.
Compare it to a TILLITSON 225/228
Yall have the funding for it, I'd like to see you compare it to a Ducar as well.
Have you ever did a stage 2 plus vm22 carb and then have issues with self throttling??
@@crownedgorrilla make sure when you put the cable into the 22mm carb, that the nipple in the carb is lined up with the groove in the cable. I did it wrong once, fired up the kart, and it took off like a rocket ship with my kid in it into thw front yard, over the ditch and flipped lol
Thanks for showing these side by side. The 212 hemi has 1 ft/lb more torque than the non hemi.
Nice comparison video guys! Thanks 😊
Nice to see a side by side comparison 👍🏻
Good Job Gang!! Hit all the notes! I'll definitely be building mine
man thank u for ur time. saves all of us time. and yes to a build off, head to head, mod for mod? i dont know. lol again, ty
I have always said there is no substitution for torque. Great video and review guys! God Bless!!
Glad to see you out there maki9ng a video...I did not know there was a Predator 224 out there...Some competition to the Wildcat...
This was a well put together video guys.
I really appreciate the great comparison! For me personally, the hemi head is worth more than the extra stroke because I use them for work and need the reliability of the hemis rockers. I may be the only guy out there who pulled a brand new Honda off in favor of a Predator, but those rockers on the hemi have never left me stranded in the middle of a job like those crap Honda style rockers have countless times over the years!
lol, and sell the honda, you could pay for the first predator and have a second for a back up.
$25 Champion rockers. Done.
I agree with you
Great comparison, and, awesome pickup!
Awesome video thanks for helping me decide on my build the bikes I do on my CZcams channel are not these style bike but I do have a coleman ct200u I'm building
The plastic cam gear is fine, plenty of small engine companies use plastic cam gears and turn crazy high RPM with them. Look into the Stihl HT 131 engine, it's a 4 cycle that runs on 2 stroke mix and has no sump, has a plastic cam gear, turns like 12k rpm, and they are stupid reliable.
yep that engine wears the cam lobe before breaking the gear itself. they do start chewing there way thru the block behind cam but a shim washer stops that. Also not a stihl design originally designed in the 40s brought back too life via shindaiwa / echo still pays copyright royaltys too them.
Definitely like to see a fully built 224
Great video! I've got an iron ton 208 thats been kicking around my shop. I can bring it over for y'all to test if you want to make engine reviews a regular thing
Is that the one you can get shipped to you for $135?
Great video guys .
Thanks guys! Now we need price and comparison between the new predator motor and the go power sports 212motor and all pros and cons on both motors!
Good job guys. Thanks
Thanks for the information 👍
cool video ! i just got a 212 for my dirt bug its got a torque clutch on it.. i got a draggy to get the speed reading to try out. i still got my govenor yet. Nice truck i had the same truck in that combo but long bed ,
Nice work gentlemen! excellent comparison detail. I am picking up the 224cc this weekend to replace my Ariens snow thrower motor. I am going to be looking to replace that plastic camshaft gear.. seriously?? supposedly makes the engine more quiet? would have been interesting to do a decibel level check between the two engines? But thanks again for the great video!
I see allot of questions about the plastic cam gear.How many have also seen the same in the Tillitson 226?The spinning weight mass is reduced drastically.I'd like to see it thicker,but they've done their tests and this is the company choice.Time will tell.Thanks guys.I'd pay the $40 extra for the torque,and reinforced block.
I need a mini bike. I really like yours. Cool test. My boys have a Kart with a 212 and it runs pretty good.
Hellz ya bro yr back thought u where on yr mission God bless u guys I'm building 🛒
Nice comparison! I wonder if the 224 will replace the 212 or HF will carry both. I think they are going to release another new horizontal engine in the 13-16hp range too
I want that truck! Thanks for the info guys.
Thanks for the show. I really enjoyed it. Now thanks to your comparison tomorrow I’m going to HF and buy two 212 himi engines for $129.
Love your shop, store and your service.
Mike
Thanks for the video... think ill stick with the 212cc for now..
Epic truck in the background
Great video. Do you know if the standard electric start kits will work with the new 224cc?
9:27 so no one’s going to acknowledge the coolest truck in the background
First, let me say....Awesome truck!!!!
Great comparison...very informative. Thanks for all of the info.!!!
The numbers are understandable for newer slightly more and bigger motor
Interesting comparison and the plastic cam can be an issue. I also think your pickup truck at the end is a beauty.
Recently replaced the 212 on my sons go kart with a 224 and I honestly noticed a difference ,not so much in top end but we live in the mountains and just the change in mobility when it comes to pulling hills especially from a stop was 100% with the price difference
If your not going to touch it and some light body’s are gonna ride it the 212 is more than enough ,if your an adult and don’t want to immediately build a motor or build budget is a issue start with something like the 224
I would like to see this vs a honda and subaru Robin! Good vid:)
Dude good video. But The best part is the Chevy truck in the back ground, such a beautiful truck.
Wow they’ve gone up 30 bucks in 8 months, Inflation is insane
Love your background music...
Interesting naming choice
I'm sure many vids will pop up, doing mods to the 224. Do the cams interchange ? What about valve sizes ? A peek at the combustion chamber ? Is the 224 a Hemi ?
I picked mine up for $10 more than a 212. For me it was more than worth it.
I got my for $159.99
@@troy22nd I think I spent around $170 for mine. Realistically the reinforced block, stroker crank, rod, and piston cost about that without the rest of the motor.
@jameshathaway5117 Actually, it was 189.99, but I had a 20% off coupon, so it was $151.99 + tax
Great Video! Id be curios to see the 212 cam in the 224.
Why? Nothing special about a 212 stock cam. Only a hemi cam will work because it's a clone cam. Non hemi cam will not work in the 224.
Good compairison
The extra 150rpm is no big deal, it's for a generator setup because they have to maintain at least 3600 under a full load with a generator, so the extras to account for governor droop.
Awesome video. I wonder if the cam gears could be interchangeable. Get rid of the plastic stuff.
I was thinking the same but it would increase the rotational mass
51,712 Views."Red Beard" mentioned you on his video of these,and I suggested they come here to watch the tests.Lets see ,in a week, the count.Hope it draws more to you guys.
I would really like to see a cam swap and some Springs with a flywheel. I feel this is going to be the comparable match up to a Tillotson 225 as far as Predator trying to be a competitor. But I look forward to seeing a 625cc mini bike. Maybe bore out to 700cc and have a 700cc street bike mini bike
@4RM lol. You got to be kidding.
That torque would be great for my snow blower, my built 212 didn't like the wet snow...at all lol
Good stuff boys....
Nice video I have a question what kind of mini bike is that I would love to buy one just like it .it looks light and fast.?
My biggest concern is will a non-hemi 212 stage 1 kit fit the 224? I found a nice stage 1 kit for the non-hemi predator but idk if it'd work for the 224🤷♂️
I ran briggs and stratton pushmowers for years when i cut grass for a living they all had plastic cam gears never had a problem with them
So plastic not a problem for me
It's a step up from the 212. Better block stroked up a tad slightly modified and better looks.
The plastic gear ⚙️ is an issue that only time will judge if it can handle other upgrades for power.
I'm buying 2 asap ✌💯
I see the power and torque increase for the increased horse power its seems negligible
Is there any chance of side by side comparison video of the 224 and 212 i saw the the strengthened block but lets be honest the original blocks didnt suffer any issues related to a weak block
Im interested in seeing if they strengthened the recoil starter possibly made the in take and exhaust less restrictive
I’d like to see a full tear down to see what parts are interchangeable. Since the first upgrades are flywheel connecting rod cams and bearings. Basically how different is the rod to see if we can still use the billet ones at go power sports or if the rod is longer now too.
If any parts are different gps will probably have brand new parts stocked within a year
Takes gx200 flywheel and takes ducar parts
unless they moved the centerline of the crank in the block, the rod length will be different. my guess is the rod length is probably shorter.
@@DJTuningCom My guess is clone rod, specific piston.
I'll be going with a common stock length clone billet rod and a 70mm flattop. Then the fun begins with the block and cam clearancing.
What size are the jets that come with it? Should have a few extra?
Love the truck!
Is the flywheel aluminum? Do you know if the rod is forged or cast? What does that sticker say on the front flywheel cover? Same as the Ducar 212? Thanks
great video very informative and to the point ,what clutch and sprocket do you recommend?
My cousin has a go kart with a stock 224 and all he did was override the governor an at like 25%throttle I'm already goin like 50-55🤣I'm too scared to be scared to go faster lol the power feels unlimited
Definitely build it
Test if the 212 cam gear fits/works on the 224
Still need a power wheels build!
The 212 has been selling at 119 here in Florida
Would it be possible just to swap that metal cam gear right over from your 212?
I have a brand new 212 hemi ..I bought few years ago on sale and never used. Can I swap in the #18 valve springs with stage 1 or do I have to change flywheel... I'm getting mixed comments on springs and hemi ...I already have stage 1 kit ..just wondering if I need change to lil heavier springs
was the 224 cam gear helical? and the 212 straight gut gears?
Does the metal cam gear for the 212cc fit onto the 224cc engine?
Will the 212 cam gears swap over to new one?
I just want to point out that the 8.1 ftlb rating for the old 212 can't be right. Even if it made that at 3600 where it's rated for power you'd still only have 5.5 hp. That 10 ft-lb is really just a more accurate rating than an increase. I suspect the 212 makes about 9.5 ftlb
Agree. The advertised torque rating (8.1) on the 212 is not correct. The 196 clone was rated at 8.1 before the Predator came out.
Wondering if combustion chamber is same size and 224 has higher actual compression ratio...
Also, these engines don't seem to perform like 6.5HP engines in minibikes/karts... seems lower...
Anyone else notice the plasic gear on the 224 vs the metal gear on the 212? Wouldn't that run the risk of exploding at high rpm unlike the 212's metal gear? * Edit * - I guess they covered that at the end.
I don't think so. There are plenty of 196's out there running the plastic cam without issues. Some guys have added springs and are running them to 7K RPM. Their stock rod is going to wear out before they ever break the cam. My 6 year old 196 with a plastic cam is still doing fine and governed to 5K RPM.
These guys didn't mention that this engine is made by Ducar and is of much better quality than any Pred 212 ever made. It's pretty much a big valve, big bore, stroked clone with a heavy duty block. The extra cost is well worth it.
bruh they coverd that right when the took the case off
Plastic cam gears are no problem you can look at still chainsaws running at 15,000 RPMs reliably for a decade and they have plastic cam gears. A little gear like a cam gear without much stress on it is fine being plastic
Was one of the engines louder than the other? I’m needing to fill a role where a quieter motor is more advantageous than an ever so slightly better performing one
Since the 212 is on sale this week and 224 is not I'll be getting the 212. I do be liking the red on the 224 tho
Thanks guys..you are awesome. I believe time is v important...212 it's very simple, and we don't need to replace parts, except if you have another plan. 224 need some modifications, change de plastic gear, exactly the same happened in Canada, Princess Auto, sell a good engine, but it's come with plastic, the new plastic mentally... disposable. I stick to old school... last for ever. Cheers guys, good luck.
Hello what is the bolting pattern on the 224?
does the 224 come with a hemi head? my understanding is the hemi 212 is slightly more powerful than a non hemi. if the 224 also has a hemi head option there may be an even bigger power difference compared to the 212 hemi
At 8:02 it says DUCAR cast right into the block.
So where did you get the 224? They are not available on harbor freight websight.
What was the gear ratio on the test bike?
I love the truck. I have a 77 k10 square body Chevy.
I want to see a comparison between the 224 and the ghost
Did you just remove the governor arm or the whole gear inside the motor?
Plastic cam gear sold it for me. I’m buying one to put on a 1964 tiller. I’ll go with the 212
What clutch did y’all put on the 224cc engine
Would it be worth it on a wake winch?
Will the 224 fit a mini bike mocked up with a 212?
Does the stock jet on 224 screw out?
What pound spring comes in the 212 non hemi
And do they both take the same size intakes, same measurements?
Fellers on that 224 box it said the torque increase was at higher r.p.m.
That makes me think
At 3600 r.p.m. like 212 it the same or less torque
WOW
EC Carbs has a pretty much drop in rod and flat top piston. (EC 8281 and Wildcat 223 70mm flat top)
If you use an ARC rod, it's going to require some block and cam clearancing work. ARC 6773 for the stock piston and 6271 for a hemi flat top.
The engine takes clone cams, rods, and flywheels. Which is a huge pro IMHO.
Sweet, Thanks for the Info!
Completely agree. No more BS unique crankshaft that the Pred 212's always had. My 196 flywheels will fit.
you can put 196cc engines camshafts /flywheels with charging coils in 212 hemi or non hemi also works with 224
Wyatt Foster. So you used the EC rod and didn't need to clearance the block?
@@Deucealive75 It requires just a tiny bit at the top of the cylinder. The ARC needs several spots.
You are brave .. running these ungoverned with the stock flywheel !!!>... eee !! ... get a couple of billet flywheels from ARC. The reinforced block on the 224 is worth the difference. GORGEOUS TRUCK IN THE BACKGROUND !!
Those extra jets included with the 224...are they larger than what comes in the carb?
No. They are smaller for running the engine at higher elevations.
Need a stage 1 and 2 and so on comparison until fully built
Were they already discontinued? Harbor Freight doesn’t seem to carry them anymore.
8:03 it says ducar..so basically tillotson and these are the same?
Was the 224cc a hemi also?
I thought I was slick. I have a 2" pump with a 212 and a mini bike with a 212. The pump had red covers so I swapped them to be different. Now people will think it's a 224