Lets learn DBFZ! - When is it your "turn" on defense?
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
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Made on request, question I often get. In a game with such varied offense as DBFZ and with assists to boot, to know when its your turn and you are allowed to hit button in this game can be a bit frustrating. So I talk about that, "stealing" turns, guard canceling and some other defensive concepts.
0:01 - general defense & stealing turns
5:25 - stuck in the corner?
6:57 - guard canceling
10:13 - in closing
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Made this one on request! The traditional "turn" concept of fighters honestly for the most part is pretty different in this game cause of of a multitude of factors, but I do my best to explain it and also just general handling yourself on defense.
amazing video as usual. have you planned a video on how to maximize sparking? that would be really helpful.
rooflemonger hey man, could you please do an update on Beerus?
rooflemonger how do you set the dumby to throw out a trypical block string like this. Love your stuff I'm new to fighting games and have learned alot here.
Thanks so much for the video! That was quick!
Vergil I will get around to as many characters as I can in time. Beerus I only really played in the beta so I need to update my knowledge of him.
I’ve always found defense to be way more difficult to maintain than offense.
-I’m kinda glad that I found this channel-
Jesus rooflemonger you are just pretty much breaking the internet with so many and different tricks ON A FUCKING DAILY BASIS. God damn it, you are awesome
I try! Although man I am so tired sometimes :-0
I love you man. Dbfz is the first fighting game that I've decided to take seriously and this stuff really helps a lot
Happy to be of help friend!
same are you a god in this game now?
6:47 It sucks when someone vanishes your vanish and puts you back in the corner.
Just a couple more technical things to note vs vanish:
• Vanish is actually I believe -1, however since it leaves you in an airborne state, when used on a grounded opponent you can press a button to cancel the landing recovery into a normal, which means pressing light makes it effectively +2. This is ONLY the case when their vanish hits from the the lowest height, aka while you’re grounded. If you for example found a space to fuzzy guard during offense (that is to say there was enough of a gap to jump backwards while blocking to avoid high/low mixups mid string) and then they vanish to extend pressure *before* you touch the ground, they will *no longer* be +2; they will be far less proportional to how high they are relative to you when the attack connects. It’s a very infrequent scenario, but one to keep in the back of your mind.
• The other thing that was mentioned was that vanish is not instant. However instead of just noticing that for defensive use, you can also take advantage of that during the opponent’s offense. When used, vanish pauses time, but it still has quite a bit of startup when you look at the frames not involved in that pause. This means that only certain moves are advantageous enough on block once canceled from vanish to be a true, gapless blockstring, and even then sometimes things like netplay delay can throw off their timing by just a tad to the point where they make a very tiny gap. You can use this gap to your advantage. Once you see vanish start up and you switch your block direction, get into the habit of tapping S right as they appear. Remember, reflect is active frame one, so if there is *any* gap whatsoever before the attack comes out, you’ll parry the vanish itself. Since they then have to *land* before they can press more buttons, this leaves you at much higher advantage and in a much less vulnerable position. But what happens if there wasn’t a gap? The answer is nothing! You just keep blocking as normal. Since reflect is done by pressing S while holding back, you can option select the vanish. That is to say, you counter two situations simultaneously with one input. If there’s a gap, back+S triggers reflect and you parry the vanish. If there isn’t, S won’t come out cuz you’ll still be in blockstun, therefore the only valid input is back. And holding back just continues to block. Since there’s very low risk in going for this, it’s a good idea to attempt it whenever you see vanish done in a blockstring. Even if they call an assist to keep you locked down, you still made some space and forced them to burn an assist where they could have otherwise used it to set up a mixup
Is there a visual on this? I have trouble imagining it
It can't be understated how important deflect is on defense. Not only does it get you some breathing room, it puts you at more of an advantage, builds meter and has no push back against projectiles. It's an excellent counter to guys who like to make their blockstrings "safe" with something like a Kamehameha and hardly anybody is using it.
Its a bit overpowered in its current state tbh. It can't be beaten by nearly anything.
Krystal Myth It has its drawbacks but it's really strong for sure. The game sort of needs it though. Without deflect there's nothing to save you from the relentless pressure you encounter a lot in DBFZ.
N00BSYBORG That's something that should be fixed. It kills characters like Picollo entirely and violates the principle of fighters where rock always has paper to worry about. Block low, vulnerable from the air and overhead. Block high, vulnerable low. Block both vulnerable to throw. Deflect, vulnerable to nothing? It's not beaten by multihit. Can't be thrown. I mean its beyond invincible. I've never ever played a fighting game where a move is no risk with the possibility of all reward like deflect. Should have more options put in game. This is thematically similar to down+h working for everything. You don't really have to guess your enemies attack with deflect, because it has no weakness. There is never a reason to bait it because it can't be punished. They can think of something more graceful than this defensive brute force of a technique.
Krystal Myth You can throw a deflect. Dragon rush and command throws beat deflect so if you bait it or the guy is just mashing deflect you can beat it. Deflect also has some recovery on it if it doesn't actually deflect anything. As for somebody like Piccolo I'd rather they buff Hellzone Grenade so you can delay it to bait deflects then throw them to combo into Hellzone Grenade.
unless you're fighting cell and he just yeets himself right back into your face
Yes! This is exactly the video I needed.
Very informative video, I find timing defense to be one of the hardest aspects of this game and I've played quite a few fighting games in my time. Thanks for the tips!
Happy to help friend!
You're doing Kami's work good sir
keep it up
I ALWAYS forget about the guard cancel lol thanks alot for this video! I usually react to block strings like I would in Marvel vs capcom games, trying to push back the attacker haha
Mario G yeah I haven't done one guard cancel at all in the last 300+ ranked games I've played. I still need to practice it. I never really thought about it before.
Cake Gaming to me it feels like it doesn't work online. It seems like i dont get the tag and i get hit for not holding back
Also FYI I have been pretty good on having a video (or two) up every day since DBFZ launched, but I might be missing a day or two shortly due to having to prepare then travel to Toronto for a tournament I am attending. After I get back things should be as normal though and when I get back I will be doing my best to learn a bunch of new characters so I can pass along the knowledge I learn.
Good luck , hopfully broly real trailer will be out 🤣 and we can get a reaction video
If you have any video from the tourney, please let us see it! 😊
Moogle my team will be Cell/16/SSJ vegeta. I will do my best although finding out Canada's best marvel player and A former evo champion(kaneblueriver) are in my pool puts a damper on things :-0
I am sure it will be up on Torontotoptiers, its their video so I wouldn't necessarily have permission to rebroadcast it. I will see about taking some of my own phone video or something though if its feasible.
rooflemonger that's okay. Make a short video with a link to any you play in if you can. Would love to watch it! 😊
Man ! you're rocking it roofle, keep it up
Great and helpful videos, learn a lot in tandem with experimental play
I appreciate how ur honest about how things don’t work every time!!!!!
Such a beautiful game wish it got more love
Great video as always!
The most helpful human I’ve come across in regards to this game, thank you good sir
I really need to use reflect more in those corner scenarios, thanks for the video!
Very helpful info for a fighting game beginner like myself, thanks!!
Very useful video ! There is a lot of video around DBFZ but mostly about extending combos, etc... But this one here is VERY important !
Watching all of those new VSF players making "100% combo video" and thinking they are skilled is a nice thing, but if you don't have a good guard and don't know when to hit, well your combos won't be very helpful
(Sorry for my bad English)
Good luck for your tournament ✊
I’m a Little late to the dbfz scene but I’m glad I found your channel man 🤞🏼
haha well happy to be of help friend! I got hundreds of videos covering god knows how many concepts of the channel so feel free to browse around. Use the playlists as everything is sorted there.
Great video. Very informative.
Great video keep up the good work
this is probably the most helpful video for more advanced players
Omg I love this, I have a little tourney today and i was strugling online yesterday with this
Great vid. You earned a sub.
You da real MVP rooflemonger.
Dude thank you for covering that gohan BS some dude beat me 7 times doing that same crap over and over I literally did not know what to do in that situation... that’s pretty cheap gohan is a problem.
Awesome video thank u
Subscribing cause your content is awesome
Appreciate it!
This is just the video I was looking for! I have terrible defence and neutral in general, so this helps
SakMinZeez same dude my neutral and defense is garbage lol
Hi there welcome to the club 😂😂😂
Yes and I am club president
@@knocks101prime8 😂
It's also worth mentioning that Sparking is an option for mashing out of small gaps, although I'm unsure of the associated frame data and viability. I don't think it's as useful as the options presented here, but it does exist.
great content, best DBFZ channel imo.
Anyways, I come for MKX/Injustice so im used to reading frame data from the menu.
In DBFZ i have to rely on manual testing to figure out block advantage and pushback?
Yessir, there is no official frame data out there and the community efforts haven't made anything concrete yet. Gotta test it out the old fashion way with the jump test or whatever else you use.
You’re great at dbfz guides, is subscribed.
*A Question though,* how do you make the special/moves input easier like you do in vids like any other good player? A lot of times i’ve had very GOOD *reads* at the right TIMING and position, either during combos or counter moves like vegeta’s anti air or oki/no gauge special beams, *BUT* when i come to, the my character does a dragon rush instead or a whiffing heavy, leading to me eating a something like an auto combo or homing dash spam.. it’s kinda bugging me right now. Thank you!! (I use a normal ps4 controller)
Great video, one thing I thought might be worth noticing is A. Gohan's machine gun kick isn't an overhead
If you notice your opponent likes to finish blockstring with beams just deflect and you can punish
A similar video on wake up options would be great also.
You want this video then, as its already been covered! czcams.com/video/Azh9X2n-hg4/video.html
sorry im late roof but fine video as always
Hey Roof! I JUST learned that the auto combo follows your opponent! I think you should do a video about this! For the longest I had no idea how to do the double jump after an air-2H and press L, L. I was forever hitting L, M and I would always drop out of the combo. I had no idea until someone made a comment that you're supposed to do L, L so it can track your opponent. I've been playing since day one and this has completely changed my game 100%! I went into the lab and all of a sudden all my combos were actually working as intended!
Again, I think you should do a video about this. If I didn't know this I'm sure many other players don't know about it either.
Cake Gaming Big guy Maximiliandood made a video about it but I'm sure rooflemonger could reach a few more people who might not know.
I do believe that exact tip is in my very first essential tips video :-0
rooflemonger I'll go check it out!
pretty sure roofle already talked about it in a vid
It's worth noting that you can still guard cancel when you only have 1 character left, it causes a grounded vanish that's super useful. I can't remember if it's only usable in sparking or not though.
EDIT: Just checked and the solo guard cancel is useable without sparking
Should also be noted that you can guard cancel even when you have one character left. This is really useful when your opponent is pinning you down in sparking to get breathing room.
FSLink he's already made a tip video about that
I think I have a good defense sometimes but some people when they know how to break it,They Do Break my defense for whatever reason.
I have been using guard cancel for a week now and it really saves lives (unless you choose the wrong teammate that is about to die) but I guess Deflect can help me to manage to increase my defensive game even more, even tho i always forget Deflect is a thing so I gotta practice that more.
11:54 I think you just answered Frieza's question.
You forgot to mention that guard cancel works even if you don't have any other characters left! In that case your characters will vanish instead of switch.
Good video though :D
I've mentioned it in other videos. The guard cancel remains the same regardless as no matter how many characters you have left you can do it.
Actually you can punish from full screen by simply reflecting the masenko if delay it and then either vanish or instant airdash twice with golden form frieza. But if they have an assist then just wait til the cool down lol
I personally still am kinda worried about using meter to guard cancel or vanish, even though I really shouldn't be. I know that the game pretty much giftwraps you meter, but I always find myself looking at the bar going "oh no I need that for later".
Any tips on how to lose that mentality?
Well the best way to lose the mentality is to keep dying and losing characters when you see that meter coulda saved you. Its just like boxing, best way to learn how to dodge a punch is to keep getting hit in the face.
Alright, thanks :D
Great vídeo,can you make another in how to keep pressure with assists?
Already made a generalized pressure guide a few weeks back check the channel.
Can you do a Tips and Tricks for Teen Gohan? The early combo guide is decent, but not as good as your later videos (no offense lol) aaaaaaaaaaaand, can you do the Teen Gohan bomb loop? Others have done it, but when you explain things, it makes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more sense. Please and thank you.
I don't currently know what the bomb loop is so i'd have to learn it first myself.
When someone safely ends a block string against Beerus, is it safe to use his crouching medium to close that gap or is it just asking to get punished? I think it is quick enough to make it Beerus' turn, but if the opponent catches on to it, it may just be putting yourself in harm's way. Any thoughts?
Being new to fighting games this is the hardest to get to grips with for me. Whenever I think there is an opening, I get hit. And when I defend I don't know which block to use!
Its rough I won't lie especially on the beginner. A lot of it you kinda got to get beat into you and understand the flow of it all. The more you play the more patterns you can recognize and the more you can safely do something, but even top level players will make wrong calls and get bopped for trying to hit a button so never feel too badly about it.
Cheers for the feedback
Damn how the meta has changed
You didn't mention that guard cancel tag is punishable by vanish into a 5L combo in the corner if you GC and they press a normal, since normals are whiff cancelable into vanish. Just something to keep in mind.
They CvS2 outro though
they shoul add frame data in the game like mortal kombat. icang tell when enemy is pluss
Yep wish this game has frame data but it doesn't. I made a video earlier about the old fashion way to determine whats plus or not "determine advantage" so you can check that vid out.
The "standard" way is to record an action and hold up, then block that action and hold up. If you use the same character on offense and defense, the character that lands first from the jump (or jumps first, hits the peak first, whatever) is at advantage. It's difficult to determine if the move is only +-1.
Now there just needs to be a video on dragon rushing, because its a lot weirder and annoying under the surface than it lets on.
Like you can't tech it if you're in another action, and for some ungodly reason the window on teching it is absurdly short.
It'd be difficult for me to count the number of times I knew a dragon rush was coming, mashed for it, they did it when I expected it, but the game didn't let me tech. Its fucking maddening.
never your turn against gohan 😆😆😆
Gohan is a greedy MFer
Gokus 2m hits same with anyone that slides half the screen like cell, beerus, agohan... its all character dependent
This is my main problem I guess, I have OK combos, but I do tend to mash like a madman. Months after launch and I’m stuck in SS1 rank.
Wow.
got another request from the low ranks
what do we do to get out of a enemy juggle loop
i had a cell player bounce me off a wall and hit me for a full combo, slide my face down the wall and start his combo again
he just kept me juggling for my entire health bar
i hit the ground maybe once?, tried to block but was instantly put back into the same loop
it was possibly my worst game ever :(
If you are being actively combo'ed there is no way out as there is no combo breaker system in this game. That said its not possible that he kept juggling you forever as the game doesn't quite work that way. The game in particular I would say go to the replay channel and watch your replay of it. At a certain point the combo numbers are going to reset and that's where he got you again. Watch that reset point and then you will know exactly what happened.
Also keep in mind if the enemy combo turns blue you could have gotten out of it by teching. While you are being comboed hold an attack button (I usually hold light) and you will automatically flip out if its not a true combo.
cell in particular has a pretty flashy corner loop, its not an infinite it just goes on for a bit. You've just got to be ready once you can act again with any of the things he said here, figure out what option he's using to hit you again and act accordingly.
czcams.com/video/WVDc2W8tULE/video.html
here is the game
so i mess up quite bad with 21, fail to block a bunch of easy Ki blasts, underestimate cells speed and lose out my chance to keep return damage... but the real pain starts with Freiza
after the reset, i again miss read some things then get planted in the corner
i am completely unable to deal
Vegeta takes it even worse
i did a little better in game2, but i still could not stop his corner rampage
is it true that if an assist character gets caught in a combo they take x1.5 the damage? it’s all blue damage
jayharmm not sure but someone's assist character took a level 3 from me and it took half their health.
Do you have a tutorial on block strings?
I do have a tutorial up on generalized pressure yes, check out the channel!
people always vanish on me and then i think its plus so i try to hit them after the blocked vanish hit and they somehow can still hit me back. i thought it was just one character thats faster but he did it with everyone on his team
you can back dash
So what you're saying is, don't fight Gohan.
It is pretty much mind games that's the hard thing
Unless you play Bardock. Then you forfeit your turns until he allows you to hit him
Is it your turn when your opponent is landing with a button while in the air but is blocked, like a j.M?
Generally speaking if you just blocked a jump attack its still gonna be their turn.
Bardock is overpowered
Vanish beats guard cancel how sad is that and you stay in front .... ( corner full combo spark tod )
u can guard cancel on cooldown????? why have i been waiting 😩😩😩😩
Its ok friend, as long as you know now!
i honestly had no idea either and was thinking this worked just like hard or quick tags.
rooflemonger appreciated, great vids by the way i subscribed.
I swear to god i just met a Yamcha and there were NO FUCKING GAPS
You should really host a training session with people. I'd join for sure if you did that. Fighterz sucks in terms of communication or friends list. Why this was removed from the game is easily one of the worst things about it.
If online training mode was a thing in this game I gladly would. However since its not its very difficult to coordinate such a thing.
Yeah, having online training mode would be amazing. Online really drags this game down. I watch replays from top players to allow me to see what other people do. Surprisingly, its very helpful. I learned moves I didn't know certain characters could do. I've spent many hours in the training mode. Trying to perfect combos and when to use assist at the correct time.
It's hard to do those combos perfectly every time. I want to be an above average player at least. But that's so hard to do it seems like lol. Or maybe I'm taking it to seriously lol. Since this game has no proper friends list or feature. They could at least make it to where you can see people's profile. Very disappointed in that aspect of the game. No way to message anyone and ask them to be sparring partner. But you sir, have earned yourself a subscriber.
What if i just spam invincible supers until my opponent has a gap??
opponent can bait you into doing just that.. leaving a gap with no button behind it.
Andre Mroz
Nah bro im only an Orange tier player...
There is *Always* an unsafe option after
Bro it's 6am and I see u made this an hour ago. Get some rest man lol
I can sleep when i die
I always fuck up my guard cancels and leave myself open and my character dies ;(
They really need vanish imo. It makes no sense why it’s safe on block
Its always my turn. Even when I'm getting whooped its my turn.
Figure that shit out and get back on offense cause you aint gonna win by staying defensive. Especially in this game.
you also aint gonna win if you're mashing buttons in disadvantage bro
Frametraps are a bitch, huh?
Although, there's something about them that feels far more fair than high/low/grab/left/right mixups.
Well, feels more fair to me, anyway.
no matter what its always the other persons turn, its never my turn
You could down medium bro
First (finally)
Nope turns out I got the first comment!!!!
Touche
Dammit i didnt't thought you count.
Nice video btw, i was working on my blockstrings this morning. This video helps me a lot
5:25
You don't. You're always doing both. The reason why a player Deflects is because they understand the enemies attack, and is attacking by defending. There are few things more symbolic of the reality of the ying and yang of offense and defense than deflect. It even looks like an attack, because it is. The Masenko being used here is an attack, being used in a block string to stay safe. Therefore its an attack intending to defend. You don't turn on defense or attack. You're always both. If you look at these like two separate states of being, you are not truly complete in your own potential, or the enemy. By teaching and reinforcing the "when is it my turn" "take back your turn" entitlement mentality you deny your students the ability to realize they never lost it. Their enemy is simply attacking, and you already established earlier how meaningless that is in terms of how you should view your own potential. Your options change, but as long as you haven't been defeated, its always your turn, until you put the controller down. Then, and only then does it become theirs. That's why the winner gets to keep their quarter in the machine.
The most helpful human I’ve come across in regards to this game, thank you good sir