A bunch of 15 year olds that vote for lebron as the goat lmao,, I can tell you now lebron is not better than kobe, and kobe was the closest player to mj,, so on that note,, lebron will never be the goat
@@ozzee5094 Naw Mamba. Remember all that talk when Kobe was this age and not winning in LA...blah blah...sure looks familiar. No way his soft mental ass would have hung up 5 out of 7 in LA. Hell the 1 has a BIG ASS * on it now.
there's been a debate for the longest time yall just love meat riding bron. Timmy has a case, Kareem has a case, Bill has a case. but yall chose bron to meat ride and slander. why?
Lbj changed it as well, but for the worse! Taking games off, ruining the competitive nature of how teams are built. Kobe RIP told him to move the game forward but he did exactly the opposite!
For those of us who were alive to witness his greatness, know the truth. Felt the wake of his airness and couldn't resist becoming a fan. MJ and his teammates blew up the basketball scene worldwide.
I'm 43 and I remember something you fan girls love to leave out how he got smoked in the first round without scottie, not saying James is better but he did more with less talent oh he got swept in the finals rather be the finals then first round Jordan, I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron just facts if you switch places LeBron gets the same amount of title if not more, caves wasn't interested in spending money they had James and felt he was enough but it's a team sport so he always came up short until he got some talent around him in Miami, bring up rings well russle has more so fail all stats people bring up there's always someone ahead of Jordan now LeBron being one of them
@@wickid-the-rogue "I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron ". You are absolutely delusional. Name one player that the Jordan era Bulls traded for or signed that it was a "Oh shit! Did you see who the Bulls got?? They got.......Darrell Walker? Dennis Hopson?" The best 2 players they signed during the Jordan era was Ron Harper, and an aging Dennis Rodman who had a lot of issues. Jerry Krause, GM of the Bulls, has even said that Jordan never came to him demanding they trade for or draft certain players. Meanwhile, aside from the beginning in Cleveland, the rest of Lebron's career has been him going to teams either bringing loaded players with him, or went back to Cleveland who had 7 first round draft picks (4 of those in the top 5 picks) in the years prior to LBJ coming back. He was essentially the GM many years deciding who they'd trade away, who they'd get, etc. A month or so after winning the title in 2016, LBJ was already crying that their team needed better players if they were going to be a winner. For as much money that teams have spent to accommodate LBJ, the trade picks they traded to get players for LBJ, etc., it's an absolute embarrassment that he only has 4 titles. Pathetic.
The argument ends with this. Jordan had that killer instinct. He didn't just wanna beat you. He wanted to humiliate you. Beat you mentally and physically and leave a lasting impression in your psyche that would never leave. He wanted to kill you competively so you were defeated from that point going forward and he'd never have worry about you ever again!!! LeBitch is "buddies" with most dudes he plays against. Also 6 for 6 in finals never going to a game 7 and winning MVP in every finals. Also look how world famous Jordan and his brand became without social media and all the tools at LeBitch's disposal. Jordan first player turned owner turned BILLIONAIRE. also Jordan ain't wearing LeBitch's number, jersey, or shoes. LeBitch and every player after Jordan wanted to be Jordan wear 23 , and wear those Jordan's man.
@@wreckim Shaq had a massive ego (still does) and it was going to be one of them or the other. His work ethic wasn't great either. If Shaq even had 75% of Kobe's work ethic, they'd have been unstoppable.
To me, two words that come to mind, when thinking MJ, are 'flawless' and 'fearless'. His shooting, his dribbling, his layups and, yes, his defence were so refined, it was a joy to watch him - he was essentially poetry in motion. Then there was the fearlessness. He wouldn't back down not even when the Pistons were imposing the infamous 'Jordan rule'. These two aspects together elevate him to the status of the undeniable GOAT. LBJ has a long way to go before he can even aspire to that.
@@tommytee7714 lol " he is humble"... try asking for an autograph like chamillionaire did. Also oj mayo once said that Jordan told him " you might be the best high school player but I'm the best player in the world". Wilt chamberlain said that they asked Jordan "are you the greatest ever? And Jordan without hesitation said yes". Then of course the story of Jordan and wilt debating over who was the greatest between them 2. Punching his teammates and telling them them "you're a loser and will always be a loser" is a real sign of someone who's "humble" right?
@@MikeHawk-yg3gkHe may have said stuff like that jokingly, but whenever he did lose earlier in his career he gave all the credit to his opponents and never threw his teammates under the bus or came out to the press scrim with a woman's scarf around his hand to save face that he once again choked on the big one at the big one.
@@brandonroque2226 🤦♂️😒 you guys always have excuses for your lord and savior Michael Jordan. And only you guys would consider losing to a better team "choking". So I guess Jordan was choking against the Celtics and pistons in the 80s right? He choked when he scored 63.
Ray Allen's opinion is very important because he even won a championship playing with Lebron. Actually, he made Lebron win one of his rings. And he doesn't even put him in the top 5.
Based on what evidence? Because the evidence suggests otherwise. Factual statistics suggest otherwise. So how can you come to such an outcome? Do you now believe in facts? Does Lebron not own the most coveted record in sports? And still isn’t done. MJ retired because he had to. The myth of who he really was, was revealed to us 2 times in his career. Years 1-7, and years 14-15… it revealed that without Scotty and Phil… MJ was just a really good ball hog.
True, I hated MJ coz I was a big Pacers and Reggie Miller fan and he eliminated them in the ECF. But after he retired, it's like the NBA is not the same anymore.
@Allen G. I love how people say that yet I can find tons of minutes of some of the most pathetic defense possible. Good defense doesn’t take checking someone with your body, you’re supposed to play the ball.
Watching Lebron is even more of poetry in motion. One of the greatest passers of all time, one of the greatest scorers, one of the greatest defenders of all time LeBron doesn’t get enough credit for the defender he is can lock anyone up one except for KD, which no one can lock him up anyway, and can effectively shut down anyone on the court cuz of his overwhelming athleticism. And not to mention he’s been the head coach and the GM on every team he’s been on. Unquestionably the goat will take on any challenge. Jordan will not take on any challenge all he gone do is score and defend an unathletic garbage man of a shooting guard cuz that’s what the 90s was full of. Oh and if u wanna say rings is all that matters then why isn’t Bill Russell the goat? Lebron over Jordan🐐🐐🐐
@Allen G. Nah the league is full of skilled players on every team now the 80s and 90s had a few superstar players and only a few championship caliber teams. The league is stock full of superstar players now and a lot more can compete for championships nowadays. Jordan dominated the most untalented, unskilled era of basketball which was the 90s. None of his finals opponent were even as good as 2011 mavericks maybe for the exception the Jazz who had JEFF HORNACEK trying to guard MICHAEL JORDAN, Give me a break what a mismatch. Oh and the nice push off on Byron Russell to get that wide open mid range jumper can’t forget about that one.
@@CheapRubbers I couldn’t agree more. The nba is more tactical nowadays back then in the 90s they didn’t have players who would put u in a multi move torture chamber and then hit a step back right in ur face. The league is full of that now and Jordan and pippen and Gary Payton would get exhausted trying to guard that.
Don't leave out Manu Having one of the worst games of this life. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for. And don't leave out Popovich. For following analytics instead of using his brain and having Tim Duncan in to rebound. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for.
WRONG!!!! Wilt Chamberlain is the best we’ve ever seen. He was a pure freak of nature that revolutionized the game. You think Joker is great, wilt who was bigger, stronger, faster, and far superior in terms of athleticism and IQ would dominate todays NBA with their soft rules and open floor.
Watched both of them and I agreed with Ray. Jordan would kill my Knicks and I hated him😃😁.However you had to end up respecting him. The man was an assassin who would put a dagger in any team’s heart.Jordan was a killer, who played in a time when you drive to the basket, you get mauled. There is no comparison, Jordan all day long.
One thing I dont think a lot of people take into consideration. In the era the MJ played, it was a hard league, so physical. I am not saying that if Bron played in that era could not adapt, but we KNOW Jordan did. On the other-hand, just how much more inflated would MJs numbers be today where there is very little contact. The last bit I have.... if it was not for MJ doing what he did, I dont know if we would have seen Bron as a NBA player. He probably would be playing TE in the NFL.
If we put today's Lebron back in the days, he'd be called a buffed up wuss for his flops and whatnot. Likewise if we put prime Jordan into today's game, he'd be expected to shoot more 3s (and score less overall) and foul out from "excessive contacts". They just happened to play in different eras and played the way that worked best at that specific era. One thing MJ would trump LBJ though is on ruthlessness. MJ was a relentless killer. LBJ acts like he is one.
I agree with your premise, but this is literally talked about in every Jordan v Lebron debate. It's not something people don't "take into consideration."
Nailed it - also keep in mind Lebron has been playing fresh out of High School. His stats are high because he shoots a lot - he also missing a lot - esp. at key moments in playoff positions
When your own teammate, on a year when your team won the championship, says your not the GOAT, that is significant. Ray Allen is an all-time record holder and NBA champ himself. He played against Jordan and played with James. Allen is definitely qualified to make that statement that MJ is better.
For as great of a basketball player as Ray Allen is and was, he is wrong. Ray Allen, fundamentally speaking, was a better basketball player than both Jordan and James. Better shooter, super athletic, excellent ball handler, and understood the game very well. He could create his own shot, shoot efficiently from anywhere, he had it all. He was Jesus Shuttlesworth. But surely he can understand, that as good as he was, he was no Lebron James. A physical specimen, freakishly gifted, etc. Ray Allen could do anything on the court Jordan could do. He can't do everything Lebron could. Surely Ray Allen, as intelligent as he is, can understand this. He doesn't mention any of it. Why? Does he not understand? Or is he being dishonest? I think too highly of Ray Allen's intellect to think he doesn't understand this. I think he's just being dishonest for some reason I have no information to explain.
@@letmediecast very arguable I don’t think lebron is stronger than prime Jordan but clearly we was talking skill here backing down a big is not skill either u big enough to do it or not thts tht
@@runegeezyyou're right that it is a bit of a dishonest argument but that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong. I have Jordan too because nobody ever looked better doing it.
In the history of the NBA with all the amazing players only 1 has won a ring, a scoring title, MVP, FMVP and first team all defense in the same year ...MJ did it 4x That's why he is the GOAT
I think being seen as the GOAT isn't just based on stats and accolades. I think half of it is how many people you can inspire to watch you and play basketball themselves. For example, Kobe falls short when it comes to MVP counts, but everytime we watch him play we get excited and every part of the game is thrilling. That's just my take.
But it's a fair one too. Even I wanted to be like Mike and was the reason I even started playing in the first place, even though I wasn't a Chicago Bulls fan. That's true greatness.
I’ll end the simple debate. Any player known to “flop” is discredited in any goat conversations. James is well known to flop and even sit out games. Jordan never flopped or purposely “chose” to sit out games.
Right on! as i said in another comment, imagine the horror of GOAT bball player not only flopping, and outright quitting regular season games because of not liking something. Players used the frustration to heck win, not blow up and quit, somebody point me to a game where mj did not foul out, but outright sat out the whole game because he was upset? the "flu game" or food poisoning he still rained it down.
@@timelord2745 for sure none of us would look at mj or Kobe the same if they did that. But he gets a pass for crying on the bench when they lost in the finals in 2014
Jordan was consistent. He never took a day off for low management. When he was on the court, he was coming at you from both sides, offense and defense. He was relentless!
Bro pls. Jordan basically quit basketball and then had to come back. Lebron takes load management at the age of 38. Jordan was heaving up and down at that age. Show some respect
@@alvingeorge775 that boi bron played one full season Jordan on the other hand played nine not to mention at 40 years old mj played one full season so let that sink in brother
Ray Allen has the most qualified opinion on the face of the earth on this subject. He was Lebron's teammate and played against Jordan (the only person to do both) and still says Jordan is the GOAT without hesitation. 'Nuff said. 🤫
@@Ronaldothegoat0728 Nooo... None of those players played against Jordan, so that makes no sense. Ray Allen played against Jordan in actual games, and was on LeBron's yeah later on. There is no one else that can make that claim.🤦
Finally someone said it. If you ask someone on the street who the best basketball player is, 9 times out of 10 they are NOT saying LeBron, he's very skilled but not MJ skilled. I just cant imagine putting LeBron over MJ in the GOAT debate, it's just never happening
Honestly, he's not skilled. A skilled player would be someone like Dream or Black Mamba. They had a bag of tricks. Lebron doesn't have a bag. Running opponents over or flopping isn't a skill. Lebron has a high basketball IQ. That's about it.
When did Bron pass Kobe? Cause Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan we fans ever saw. Kobe won 5 rings. He made 7 Finals. Look up how many all NBA defensive teams he made. 81 pts in a game, 62 pts in only 3 quarters. Mike the Kobe both got a 3 peat. No team has done it since Kobe/Shaq Lakers and Mike did it twice. Kobe keeps being moved up or for the most part pushed down these top 10 lists. Kinda wondering what he did from beyond the grave that made him a worse player 😂
@@rodneyc8126 Agreed. He has no go to move. He has no set of moves. He's never been a great shooter. His FG% outside of 8 feet is atrocious. He's just big and barrels into people. There are 20-25 players I can think of that are way more skilled than Lebron.
@@roboninja3194 Really annoying when the media puts him above Jordan. Have those idiots seen MJ play? That dude was a once in a lifetime player. Lebron is a good player but he ain't no where near 🐐 status. I don't understand how he surpasses Kobe and many others who were just better.
lmao plus lebron needs 2 stars to make the team play better. if he was making the team better like everybody thinks. then he shouldnt be needing 2 more stars to win
Michael's 3 point game was his least best skill. He had to work on them for years to get good by practicing like a madman. But he also knew when to shoot them especially back when the 3 was not all they did like in today's game
This debate ended in 2011 when Jason Terry outplayed Bron and beat the Bron Built Heat. Then in 2018 the Bron Built Cavs got swept in the Finals. Also in 2021 the Bron Built Lakers got bounced out the first round and Bron left the floor with almost 6 minutes left to "get treatment for his injuries." Not only has Bron come up small in big moments but he's proven to be a poor teammate if his team is losing. And all this while playing on teams he built!
You’re crazy. The way you’re talking about Lebron is just hating. Lebron choked in 2011, that’s obvious, but how does that end the debate if he’s proven himself to be one of the greatest finals performers of all time in his later finals series. In 2018, he did way more and made it way further then anyone could have in the history of the nba. If MJ was put in his situation, he wouldn’t of made the finals. Nor would Kobe, Kareem, Magic, anyone. You’re saying he put himself in thst situation, which is only partly true. A player can push for their teams roster, but has no say in the final decision. That’s for the Cavs GM. Lebron is by far the greatest player of this generation, and is a locked G.O.A.T. Candidate, with his all time place either being right behind Jordan, or just ahead. Put some respect on his name
@@vk7077 I'm not arguing Lebron isn't great. I'm just saying there is no GOAT argument when he's has poor performances like the ones I stated. And I'd argue his Finals record isn't even great. Yes he's been there 10 times, which is impressive BUT he's well below even .500. MJ was 6-0... tough to argue against that.
@@vk7077 And not for nothing but you said if MJ was put in his situation he might not have made the Finals? What situation? The one where Bron left to build a super team in Miami? Then when that lost its luster he left to join Kyrie and Kevin Love in Cleveland? Then when that lost it's luster he left for LA. Then when they got bounced out the playoffs he had them add AD. MJ didn't leave the Bulls or try to build super teams. Only one guy joined him and that was Rodman. And that was an aged Rodman. So I'm not sure which situation your referring too but MJ made the best of his. LeBron tried to manufacture teams to win titles. Yes he won but he also lost more often.
Lebron plays in an era of no hand checking against defenses where it’s easier to score the basketball and not as physical. How do you lose 6 finals in such an era? MJ never lost a finals series. There’s no debate here, only upset fans that never saw MJ play.
Tbh Michael had a fenomenal team, LeBron carried the Cavaliers by himself to the finals which is incredible, plus he had to fight against the warriors probably the strongest team in those years
And the NBA allows LeBron to do what he wants know Defence can’t stop him because of this. But shows other superstars curry especially Kevin Durant Jayson Tatum and do in not the same respect as LeBron!! I have literally seen LeBron James grab somebody and pushed them out the way just so he can score and every game and the refs act like they don’t see it. and the NBA wants LeBron to pass Michael Jordan so they can start saying he is a goat prove me wrong it’s all facts.
Everyone knows the NBA put all their eggs in one basket (Micheal Jordan). MJ is shorter, smaller, weaker than LeBron. Hand checking rules, whilst they make scoring inside harder, on the opposite end of the spectrum they'd make playing defense hella easier. Who's more built to sustain physicality? Jordan? Or LeBron? Get real old schoolers.
The thing about Jordan was the consistency to make the shots and plays WHEN IT MATTERED. Absolute most clutch player ever. Yeah he had great players surrounding him, but so did Lebron, Steph, Kobe, whoever else you want to put in the mix. The fact of the matter is MJ relentlessly wanted to be the absolute best and win as much as possible. He gave well over 100% on the court every time. He made his teammates focus and demanded that they win at all costs and they did. There weren’t any fancy handshakes, social media, dances, etc. This man was legitimately pissed af with what he had to endure with Detroit and all the years leading up to the first Finals win. That’s why he ripped into his own teammates to get on his level and show them what it takes to make it on top. The man had a basketball stadium built on set of the Space Jam movie he was filming so he could invite all the top players in the NBA at the time and compete against them and understand what he has to deal with next season. That’s a completely different mindset and hunger than what we have now. It’s not to say the NBA isn’t talented or driven nowadays, it’s just way different.
@@clampsgaming439 Jordan knew when he can't pull it he knew when a teammate had the night.Thats why he assisted Pax and Kerr he always warned them to be ready. Unlike Lebron who takes the last shot for the spotlight,If it wasn't for the fact that Bosh rebounded and Allen scored the 3 his legacy would've be under big doubt at this moment.Just like KD's right now.
@@nevelinmitev9391 bro your such a hypocrite 😂Lebron scored 16 in the 4th that game ! Fuck Ray Allen’s shot of Lebron didn’t score all those damn points that 3 wouldn’t have meant shit so enough with the “ Allen saved Lebron “ it’s a damn team sport stfu
There are hundreds of stories about Michael Jordan, and what he did, and said to teammates players and owners etc LeBum has none of those legendary stories 😂😂😂 nobody feared him 😆
You can't be in the GOAT debate if you can't even hit a damn freethrow in a clutch situation, and this is the BIG reason he's not the first option in clutch situations, as we've seen a gazillion times throughout his entire career. Furthermore, whenever things get tough on his team, he ALWAYS quits.
@@donkrider72caprice because he stat pads. If you looking for someone who just wants the WHOLE team to be better and involved go look at Butler. The narrative with Lebron is that even if he played poorly and soneone else clutched the game it was always him who did good but if his team loses there always, always has to be a scapegoat. Yes Westbrook I’m looking at your sorry ass
@@ljfacil Miami is gonna lose 4-1🤣🤣🤣like everyone else who has played Denver lmao!! MJ stat padded his first 8 years dude Bron needed AD to step up and he didn’t folks be hollering clutch when Bron hit more clutch shots than MJ and Kobe combined 🤣🤣🤣
In Jordan's prime, he won 25 out of 26 playoff series. 25-1. What does LeBron have on his resume that even compares to that? 8 straight Finals? Jordan only went to 6 in 8 seasons because he retired for almost 2 years playing baseball.
Lebron would need the following just to TIE Jordan. 9 more scoring titles, 4 more all defensive first teams, 3 league steals leaders, 2 more finals MVPs, 1 more league MVP, a scoring title and DPOTY at the same time, 3 ppg higher scoring for career, a 37 ppg season (the highest season ppg average ever), an 82 game season with 34 ppg, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and 1.5 blocks per game (league record), and 2 more titles. All that just to TIE Jordan. It’s obvious Lebron ain’t the GOAT. He’s top 5 for sure, but not the GOAT.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc Well if you specify "modern era" then sure I guess but your original statement was "highest season ppg average ever", I'm not sure "modern era" even has an official definition though.
My daughter used to play basketball in middle school and I overheard her and another girl from her team having this conversation. Other girl: "Lebron is a better player than Michael Jordan". My daughter: "This conversation is over, because you obviously have never seen Michael Jordan play".
That famous shrug where the commentator said something like, “Jordan doesn’t know what’s happening either”. That wasn’t it. Jordan said he chose not to shoot 3s bc of the style he played. Not that he couldn’t. That shrug wasn’t one of disbelief. It was a shrug of a, “I told you so”
Seven scoring titles in a row before the second three peat.all this with the team that drafted him.despite the disfunction in the front office.despite no other stars until he himself developed scottie
Yeah I love the fact that he won a scoring title and defensive player of the year in the same season..😲..That means he was the best defensive and offensive player in the NBA in the same season..🤔🤔..Nuff said..🎤 DROP!!!
Bruh, not to mention he won DPOY while winning also the scoring title at 35 ppg. 35 PPG! averaged 3 steals that season! And before that he average 37 PPG!
MJ was so good that he transcended the sport itself. MJ was a high energy player who played above the rim, he simply moved beautifully and was a must see at all times. Lebron is good, but Jordan changed how ballers wore their gear and everybody went bald when MJ went bald. I can have on a Lakers game and although Lebron is playing I know he will not do something that is must see TV like Jordan did. Lebron's breakaway dunks are awesome and powerful, but Jordan enjoyed dunking over 3 players at the same time at the rim, it was awesome.
Lebron changed the game as far as players looking at teams as a business and not a family. He also made it a thing to team up with your rivals. I’d say Jordan and curry had an overall bigger effect on basketball
LEBRON JAMES LEGACY TRANSCENDS HIGHER THAN BASKETBALL HE IS A EXCELLENT BUSINESS MAN HE SUPPORTS HIS COMMUNITY AND HE WILL SPEAK OUT AGAINST INJUSTICE NOT WORRYING ABOUT HIS BOTTOM DOLLAR AND THE MAIN REASONS WHY SOME HATE HIM SO HE WANT SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE HES NOT A KNOWN GAMBLER HE IS STILL WITH WIFE AND CHILDREN'S AND HE STAYS OUT OF TROUBLE THIS BREAKS THE NORM THIS ALSO CAUSES HATERS TO HATE FOR LEBRON IS SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MANY TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOT STEPS.
When the young minds of our generation argue their points with facts and not feelings. Maaaan there's no better viddies to watch.... Great work young g!
People need to remember the massive difference in the three point game between then & now. Back then, the 3 wasn’t shot much at all. A team with good a 3 pt shooter may have taken 10-11 3s a game, total. Now individual players shoot almost that many on their own, and teams will jack up 30+ 3s a game. That’s 3 times as many as back then. Jordan only averaged about 0.5 threes per game for his career, and still has the highest ppg average in NBA history, PLUS the year he had the highest single season ppg average in NBA history (37.1) he only shot 0.7 threes per game. These guys literally jack up 7 times as many 3s as MJ did, and still can’t score on the level he did. That says a lot.
Yep, also says a lot about so called analytics being the better option to score too, it's not always the case, high percentage closer range shots have value, and when to shoot a three should depend on the flow of the game and situation.
This is such an idiotic take. Jordan had plenty of great teammates that shot the 3 well and won games for the Bulls with 3s!!! He wasn't one of them. No need to make excuses for him. Lots of guys shot the 3 well and were in the game specifically to shoot 3s. Including his own teammates who shot the 3 better than he did. Don't act like there wasn't a 3 point line when he played. He could have shot it better if he was a better shooter but he wasn't that good from 3, period. No excuses.
@@runegeezy Idk how u figured he wasn't good at 3s when he literally shot the 3 average %. Also he didn't have to shoot the 3 cause he was killing them with the mid range. Here let me help you out Bron about to pass Kareem right but in doing that its cause he shoots 3s cause of 2days game. Kareem scored that many only shooting 2s that should help. So excuses are only made when there is no facts ...fact is Jordan is just better than Lebron in alot of areas is all.
Ray was one of my all time favorite players.. He's obviously right about MJ being better than LJ by miles, but greatest.. By championships it's Russell.. Records it's Wilt.. MJ was certainly on the Mt. Rushmore tho..
It's just crazy to me...MJ won every single award there was to win except the three point shootout for gods sake!!!!...but he even tried the three point contest, granted a dismal performance, but at least he tried. He mastered all facets of the game with freakish athleticisim, and the fact he retired and just came back and picked up right where he left off shows just what a freak of nature this man was, not to mention still schooling young cats when he was with the Wizards, past his prime, and still putting up numbers worthy of an all star selection. There is just no comparison to Lebron There just isnt. Kobe is a more worthy comparsion.
For all you clowns bringing up the fact that Lebron passed Jordan on all time scoring list, it took him 18 seasons to do it... Jordan only played for 15... In a comparison, everything that happened after that 15 season, is null... including that fake ass bubble championship.
Plus have you seen the league today? Dancing laughing and stupid as defense.. You mock people this much back in the days, you will kiss the floor and blood would spill. Soft defense, even cats could play offense.. wake me up when basketball is a contact sport.
Just imagine for a single moment MJ in a press conference saying: "our team lacks shooting", "we ain't good enough"... And on the top of that one of his teammates smiling about that. You can't right?
@@josephdimascio9044 Lol. Isiah Thomas broke his hand punching big Lamb in the face during practice as well. I know its foreign to this softer young generation but that was 80s and 90s basketball.
@@LilHarveyit’s true though, Lebron has a horrible mindset, and yeah he has the stats but he’s not ridiculously impressive and it’s sad because he’s one of the best playing in a pussy generation and still loses
The early years of Jordan that I watched unfold live was.... lit. He was doing things you just didn't see other players do. The excitement he was generating in regular season games was nothing like anything we have seen since.
Like his 63 point game in the Boston Garden in the postseason. It took a team with 5 HOF players to hold off MJ & it took them double OT to do it. That's when Larry Legend said it was God disguised as Michael Jordan.
There was an artistry to MJ's game that has never been matched. I remember channel surfing and if the Bull's were playing I had to watch to see what MJ was going to do. His game was always must see TV.
There were a lot of people watching the NBA that quit watching after Jordan left. I hate to admit it, I was one of them. I realized I wasn't an NBA fan -- I was a Jordan fan -- as so many others were. Leflop will never have that impact on the game.
Same for me; I’m not a basketball fan but could not resist watching/respecting the game when Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were on the court. I would stop channel surfing EVERY time for these two players who were magical in their time’s or era’s in basketball!#Boston Celtics#ChicagoBulls#🏀🔥✨#🏀👑’s@ John Milligan
It's simple. At 27 Jordan Swept the defending Champ Pistons to win 3 straight Championships. At 27 Lebron packed his suitcase, ran to the Heat Superteam, promised not 5 not 6 not 7 chips then won only 2, then got blasted in 2014 by a record margin. Whined at the presser afterward. Said regular people have sucky lives. Then he bolted to another Superteam in Cleveland. I could go on and on and on..
The reason that MJ’s three point percentages are so low was because 1. He didn’t shoot them that much because of his philosophy (which was he thought it took away from his game, which was to penetrate to score or get his teammates open) and 2. Which is probably the main reason, he usually shot threes when when the shot clock was going down and was forced to shoot a low percentage three. If MJ was looking for high percentage 3s his 3 point percentage would’ve been higher
Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve doesn’t matter it didn’t happen. And plus just because it’s his philosophy doesn’t change anything, it was his decision and no one else’s.
Thats because 3 point shooting wasn't the main focus back in Jordan's era like it is in today's game. If it was Jordan's 3 point percentage would definitely be higher.
@@kingchriistiian6757 yeah still Lebron can't be GOAT, imagine forming a team consisting of 4 of the 75 greatest player yet he was not able to qualify to the Play In.
@@zinjgreen3398 fair point. I will admit, it is embarrassing he didn’t at least make the play in. But I view it kind of differently. Sure they are in the top 75, but this season was terrible for them. Ad was injured most of the season and Russ is just dysfunctional. Which shouldn’t be put on Lebron.
I think people don’t realize that Jordan wasn’t even ring chasing. He stuck with his home squad and made them champions. And for the super team argument, Pippin averaged more playing with Jordan than without Jordan.
The biggest difference between lebron and Jordan besides heart and killer instinct is Jordan showed up when it really counted for example No one hit as many game winners in the FINALS than Jordan or clutch freethows when they counted than Jordan and lebron is just not that reliable under real pressure and that doesn't show up in overall stats just like Heart and killer instinct don't show up in stats.
Agreed, but Jordan showed up all the time. He never took games off (unless injured, which wasn't much after his foot injury in the second or third year).
my earliest memories of Jordan was when he played with Orlando Woolridge in the old Chicago Stadium and I remember watching the magical shot against Cleveland on SportsChannel ;-)
The biggest difference between LeBron and Michael is that in the 4th quarter everyone knew that the ball was going to Mike and they still couldn't stop him because he wanted the ball. LeBron has never been "that guy" in the 4th quarter. Yes, LeBron is good, but he'll never be the greatest.
Use Ray's logic was a great 3 or ft shooter? No he was very good but to be considered great you should be at a minimum of 87% ft he had the mid range he was a very good to great defensive player. But not the greatest ball handler rebounder blocker or passer. Lbj wilt ai Kobe and others could score just as well as mj. So how he could he be goat when he isn't at or near top in all these statistical categories? See any flawed logic w that take?
@@kylonp7311 so chips right? Bill has 11 so he obviously is the goat followed by Halvicheck and Horry? I mean you wanna use the ultimate team accomplishment to decide the greatest player. Again mj is too good have to resort to such toxicity
@@showtime6667 but Russell never won finals mvp and horry never won no individual award or ever started so that was dumb to bring him up and nobody thinks that Halvicheck is the goat at anything so I dnt kno y u brought him up either seems like your desperate kid 😂😂😂😂😂
@@showtime6667 and if we’re talking about jordan and lebum then y in the hell are u bringing up bill Russell nobody thinks he’s the goat y come everytime someone brings up rings when comparing lebum and jordan u lebum fan girls bring up players from the 1950s to try to help your argument I never herd any jordan fans bring up no other players when it comes to the goat debate plz so y are quick to bring up bill Russell plz make it make since cause bill Russell is not going to save lebum kid so stop bringing him up the debate is between 6-0 vs 4-6 not who has the most rings ever 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️😂😂😂😂😂
@@alanduff1054 "if I had to chose a player to take a shot to win a game, I'd chose Michael Jordan. If I had to chose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd chose Larry Bird." - Pat Riley
Jordan changed the entire league, players feared him and coaches couldn't figure him out! This went on through his career and how do you compare to two 3 peats, never choked in crunch time, DIDN'T RUN TO ANOTHER TEAM so now they want use stats now!
LeBron’s character flaws, manifesting on multiple occasions in a lack of competitive drive/fire, to me take him way out of consideration as greatest ever. However, he is definitely in the running as greatest self promoter ever
At multiple points during his career, whether it’s at the micro level of frequently not getting back on defense or otherwise phoning it in on that side of the ball, all the way to the macro level of seeking to build superteams and “getting more help“ to try to assure him an easier path to a ring, LeBron has displayed far more hunger for glory and adulation than actual competitive fire. I have also frequently seen him wilt under adversity and just plain give up: Exhibit A being LeBron’s tantrum/shutdown in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals after JR Smith’s mental blunder at the end of regulation. If you consider someone with that level of mental weakness a legit contender for greatest ever, that’s your lookout.
@@PabluchoViision their fan boy nothing more they will only see his good never his major flaws which takes him out the Goat conversation mofo just lazy and a cry baby
@@PabluchoViision Don't act like Jordan's Bulls wasn't a super team with players like Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. They are all HOFers and 2 of them are also on Top 75 list. I am not discrediting MJs greatness because of that. Only Lebron's heat was a Super Team, 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers were as good as any average NBA team and nowhere close to a Super Team. Without Lebron, they were barely a playoff team and Bulls reached Conference Semis without MJ, that's how good they were on their own. And If you call a 50 point night a shutdown, then I don't even know what to say.
@@rohanbhaunt That still doesn’t change the fact that in 2018 the cavs came out of the “Leastern Conference.” It was a very weak conference.. It’s also the reason why Lebron made it to 8 straight Finals. Onto your analogy on why the bulls did well after Jordan left: #I- The bulls were built from the ground up. They didn’t trade all their draft picks to build an All-Star team around him. They actually kept most of their draft picks and drafted well. #2-They were coached by Phil Freaking Jackson. That #3- Jordan helped forge his teammates into what they became. Tough, competitive, high basketball IQ’s, unselfish and understanding their role within the team. Lebrons teams went down in flames after he left because they didn’t have jack for draft picks. He had them all traded for All stars. Thus, those former teams couldn’t build from the draft. #2- Lebrons playing style involves him having the ball in his hands most of the time. It also involves having shooters around him. It’s a decent team style of play but as soon as he leaves the team they have nothing but shooters who can’t create very well off the dribble. That’s when it becomes disastrous. #3~ His former teams never have a Phil Jackson to pick up what’s left of the pieces after Lebron definitively leaves. Look, this isn’t rocket science. It’s easy to see. I hate to break it to Lebron fans but Lebron should never even be considered for the GOAT conversation. He’s the ALL TIME leader in turnovers, has a weak jumpshot and is abysmal at the line. And don’t get me started on defense..
Mike made everybody in the league better because he was that guy you had to worry about. He didn’t blame his teammates, he just forced them to compete at a much higher level. Mike and the Pippen combo was a nightmare for teams and they only got better as they added key players to the Bulls. Mike did it consistently on one team against a more aggressive league at that time. Mike made sure you didn’t forget him and like now, he doesn’t have to say a word about being the goat because those that saw him play, well, we all know!!! My second runner up is Kobe because he mirrored Mike which in some ways made his skill set a lot harder to compete with. I like Lebron, always have always will but I saw Jordan play 😂 😂 😂
I never seen MJ go to the line and miss 2 free-throws in crunch time, but have seen LeBron do it on at least 3 occasions (once against Dallas which cost them the series).
Lebron is number 2 in most game winning/tying shots in history of the nba just a couple shots short of kobe who is number 1. people saying lebron isn‘t clutch doesn‘t make sense to me, stay hatin tho he keeps proving y‘all wrong. It all started with the 2016 Finals when he won against all odds, never have i seen MJ „against all odds“
I think majority of people voting for Lebron James as the GOAT really haven't seen MJ play throughout his career.
A bunch of 15 year olds that vote for lebron as the goat lmao,, I can tell you now lebron is not better than kobe, and kobe was the closest player to mj,, so on that note,, lebron will never be the goat
@@king-ghost1027 bron better than Kobe lmao 😂
@@ozzee5094 Naw Mamba. Remember all that talk when Kobe was this age and not winning in LA...blah blah...sure looks familiar. No way his soft mental ass would have hung up 5 out of 7 in LA. Hell the 1 has a BIG ASS * on it now.
Jordan has no beard... so he is not the Goat.
@@WelderWick so in that logic James harden is the goat?
It's adorable people even think there is a debate 😂😂😂😂
I was going to give you a like, but you are at 23...
MJ all day everyday
there's been a debate for the longest time yall just love meat riding bron. Timmy has a case, Kareem has a case, Bill has a case. but yall chose bron to meat ride and slander. why?
exactly
yeap,plus Ray knows...He got game😏😏
Michael Jordan literally changed basketball culture. GOAT!
@robertfoster5705 ...Jordan didn't change basketball culture. James didn't, either!
Lbj changed it as well, but for the worse! Taking games off, ruining the competitive nature of how teams are built. Kobe RIP told him to move the game forward but he did exactly the opposite!
For those of us who were alive to witness his greatness, know the truth. Felt the wake of his airness and couldn't resist becoming a fan. MJ and his teammates blew up the basketball scene worldwide.
every game jordan played was special... he was a genius
I'm 43 and I remember something you fan girls love to leave out how he got smoked in the first round without scottie, not saying James is better but he did more with less talent oh he got swept in the finals rather be the finals then first round Jordan, I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron just facts if you switch places LeBron gets the same amount of title if not more, caves wasn't interested in spending money they had James and felt he was enough but it's a team sport so he always came up short until he got some talent around him in Miami, bring up rings well russle has more so fail all stats people bring up there's always someone ahead of Jordan now LeBron being one of them
@@wickid-the-rogue "I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron ". You are absolutely delusional. Name one player that the Jordan era Bulls traded for or signed that it was a "Oh shit! Did you see who the Bulls got?? They got.......Darrell Walker? Dennis Hopson?" The best 2 players they signed during the Jordan era was Ron Harper, and an aging Dennis Rodman who had a lot of issues. Jerry Krause, GM of the Bulls, has even said that Jordan never came to him demanding they trade for or draft certain players.
Meanwhile, aside from the beginning in Cleveland, the rest of Lebron's career has been him going to teams either bringing loaded players with him, or went back to Cleveland who had 7 first round draft picks (4 of those in the top 5 picks) in the years prior to LBJ coming back. He was essentially the GM many years deciding who they'd trade away, who they'd get, etc. A month or so after winning the title in 2016, LBJ was already crying that their team needed better players if they were going to be a winner. For as much money that teams have spent to accommodate LBJ, the trade picks they traded to get players for LBJ, etc., it's an absolute embarrassment that he only has 4 titles. Pathetic.
youre a fool....without magic and bird rivalry there is not jordan
Better a fool than a loser
Stats aside, Jordan just looked and acted a certain way that Bron nor Kobe could ever match… Kobe came closest though
Now that is a accurate statement!
I was going to comment something similar to this. Whenever Jordan had the ball in his hands, magic was going to happen.
Kobe was right there with Mike. They’re both superior to Lebron in my opinion.
You are right. And Kobe acknowledges this and gives Jordan full credit for helping him with that.
The argument ends with this. Jordan had that killer instinct. He didn't just wanna beat you. He wanted to humiliate you. Beat you mentally and physically and leave a lasting impression in your psyche that would never leave. He wanted to kill you competively so you were defeated from that point going forward and he'd never have worry about you ever again!!! LeBitch is "buddies" with most dudes he plays against. Also 6 for 6 in finals never going to a game 7 and winning MVP in every finals. Also look how world famous Jordan and his brand became without social media and all the tools at LeBitch's disposal. Jordan first player turned owner turned BILLIONAIRE. also Jordan ain't wearing LeBitch's number, jersey, or shoes. LeBitch and every player after Jordan wanted to be Jordan wear 23 , and wear those Jordan's man.
This is only a debate for those who don't know the game.
MJ = 🐐
I watched the 80s and 90s Jordan coming up lebron doesn't compare Jordan is the goat 🐐
Facts😂😂
LET'S GET REAL. The debate should be between KOBE and MICHAEL.
Kobe was stupid to push out Shaq. Together they would have won 8 or more championships.
@@wreckimprobably but Kobe didn’t want to be known as the guy who only won champs because of shaq, he wanted to carve out a name for himself
@@wreckim Shaq had a massive ego (still does) and it was going to be one of them or the other. His work ethic wasn't great either. If Shaq even had 75% of Kobe's work ethic, they'd have been unstoppable.
To me, two words that come to mind, when thinking MJ, are 'flawless' and 'fearless'. His shooting, his dribbling, his layups and, yes, his defence were so refined, it was a joy to watch him - he was essentially poetry in motion. Then there was the fearlessness. He wouldn't back down not even when the Pistons were imposing the infamous 'Jordan rule'. These two aspects together elevate him to the status of the undeniable GOAT. LBJ has a long way to go before he can even aspire to that.
MJ all day
I rank James a top 15 player. I have him outside of the top 10.
Lebron: Down by 1 point with 4.2 secs left. Shoots two freethrows and missed both
Announcer: Are you kidding me?
😆😆😆
LeCHOKE lol
Rite- a player of his stature is supposed to make the free ones. Labron isn’t clutch ….he nuts up!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@rrw5834"in the clutch" his actual shot percentage is like mid 20's.
Can you imagine Jordan, Magic, Kobe, or Bird doing that? 🤣🤣🤣
Michael Jordan NEVER had to brag about himself being the GOAT; he let his skills on the court do the talking.
When Jordan was asked he said the Bulls, not himself. He realizes it was a team effort. He is humble and great.
@@tommytee7714 lol " he is humble"... try asking for an autograph like chamillionaire did.
Also oj mayo once said that Jordan told him " you might be the best high school player but I'm the best player in the world". Wilt chamberlain said that they asked Jordan "are you the greatest ever? And Jordan without hesitation said yes". Then of course the story of Jordan and wilt debating over who was the greatest between them 2.
Punching his teammates and telling them them "you're a loser and will always be a loser" is a real sign of someone who's "humble" right?
@@MikeHawk-yg3gkHe may have said stuff like that jokingly, but whenever he did lose earlier in his career he gave all the credit to his opponents and never threw his teammates under the bus or came out to the press scrim with a woman's scarf around his hand to save face that he once again choked on the big one at the big one.
Jordan was an all time great but he definately was not a humble guy. He used to brag all the time.
@@brandonroque2226 🤦♂️😒 you guys always have excuses for your lord and savior Michael Jordan. And only you guys would consider losing to a better team "choking". So I guess Jordan was choking against the Celtics and pistons in the 80s right? He choked when he scored 63.
I saw both play ... MJ had the most amazing killer instinct I have ever seen
Anyone who lived to see both play know the answer, and that's all the debate you ever need to hear on the subject.
Ray Allen's opinion is very important because he even won a championship playing with Lebron. Actually, he made Lebron win one of his rings. And he doesn't even put him in the top 5.
This really isnt even a debate if you saw them both play. MJ all day every day.
Big facts!
Leebron not even better then mamba
Based on what evidence? Because the evidence suggests otherwise. Factual statistics suggest otherwise. So how can you come to such an outcome? Do you now believe in facts? Does Lebron not own the most coveted record in sports? And still isn’t done. MJ retired because he had to. The myth of who he really was, was revealed to us 2 times in his career. Years 1-7, and years 14-15… it revealed that without Scotty and Phil… MJ was just a really good ball hog.
@@Jeffersonwazright “If” doesn’t matter. If Lebron had won every time he made it to the finals… he’d have 1 less ring than Bill Russell. IF!
JORDAN'S NIC-NAME IS AIR, LEBRON'S NIC-NAME IS "KING"!
Ray Allen telling these clowns to stop repeating ESPN First Take BS
Growing up watching Jordan play, there is no debate.
Even a person who hates Jordan can’t deny watching Michael play basketball is like watching poetry in motion.
True, I hated MJ coz I was a big Pacers and Reggie Miller fan and he eliminated them in the ECF. But after he retired, it's like the NBA is not the same anymore.
@Allen G. I love how people say that yet I can find tons of minutes of some of the most pathetic defense possible. Good defense doesn’t take checking someone with your body, you’re supposed to play the ball.
Watching Lebron is even more of poetry in motion. One of the greatest passers of all time, one of the greatest scorers, one of the greatest defenders of all time LeBron doesn’t get enough credit for the defender he is can lock anyone up one except for KD, which no one can lock him up anyway, and can effectively shut down anyone on the court cuz of his overwhelming athleticism. And not to mention he’s been the head coach and the GM on every team he’s been on. Unquestionably the goat will take on any challenge. Jordan will not take on any challenge all he gone do is score and defend an unathletic garbage man of a shooting guard cuz that’s what the 90s was full of. Oh and if u wanna say rings is all that matters then why isn’t Bill Russell the goat? Lebron over Jordan🐐🐐🐐
@Allen G. Nah the league is full of skilled players on every team now the 80s and 90s had a few superstar players and only a few championship caliber teams. The league is stock full of superstar players now and a lot more can compete for championships nowadays. Jordan dominated the most untalented, unskilled era of basketball which was the 90s. None of his finals opponent were even as good as 2011 mavericks maybe for the exception the Jazz who had JEFF HORNACEK trying to guard MICHAEL JORDAN, Give me a break what a mismatch. Oh and the nice push off on Byron Russell to get that wide open mid range jumper can’t forget about that one.
@@CheapRubbers I couldn’t agree more. The nba is more tactical nowadays back then in the 90s they didn’t have players who would put u in a multi move torture chamber and then hit a step back right in ur face. The league is full of that now and Jordan and pippen and Gary Payton would get exhausted trying to guard that.
Jordan is the G.O.A.T. period,and he NEVER slouched on defense!
this soo much. #hustle
Yes exactly that's where the big difference is. He was literally the best defensive and offensive player for years
All fact!!!!!
Lequit on defense.
Allen is literally the reason why this debate exists in the 1st place
Skip would agree though no one likes to hear it 😂
And kawhi missing those 2 FTs just before
Not really. Just one man’s opinion
Don't leave out Manu Having one of the worst games of this life. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for. And don't leave out Popovich. For following analytics instead of using his brain and having Tim Duncan in to rebound. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for.
@@dannybachner899 just think Tim Duncan would also be 6-0 in nba finals
MJ is one of the best athlete in my lifetime. I never witness anything like him. He is and always will be the GOAT of the NBA
WRONG!!!! Wilt Chamberlain is the best we’ve ever seen. He was a pure freak of nature that revolutionized the game. You think Joker is great, wilt who was bigger, stronger, faster, and far superior in terms of athleticism and IQ would dominate todays NBA with their soft rules and open floor.
@@JohnTaylor-bd1uy Bill Russell destroyed him in the playoffs. So...no to Wilt, who wilted in the post season.
Wizards era MJ b4 injury was still giving that work
Jordan's Wizards days are really underated. Let's see how many times Leflop scores 50 after turning 40.
Watched both of them and I agreed with Ray. Jordan would kill my Knicks and I hated him😃😁.However you had to end up respecting him. The man was an assassin who would put a dagger in any team’s heart.Jordan was a killer, who played in a time when you drive to the basket, you get mauled. There is no comparison, Jordan all day long.
@Tonka Truck FAX....
@Tonka Truck 🔪😆🏀⛹🏽♂️
FUCKIN' AYE
had the same pain. Growing up being a Knicks fan, I hated MJ but he is the GOAT
@@georgekontogouris6618 I feel yo pain when he finally got through my Pistons with a sweeping gesture... but BIRD is GOAT.....
One thing I dont think a lot of people take into consideration. In the era the MJ played, it was a hard league, so physical. I am not saying that if Bron played in that era could not adapt, but we KNOW Jordan did. On the other-hand, just how much more inflated would MJs numbers be today where there is very little contact. The last bit I have.... if it was not for MJ doing what he did, I dont know if we would have seen Bron as a NBA player. He probably would be playing TE in the NFL.
If we put today's Lebron back in the days, he'd be called a buffed up wuss for his flops and whatnot. Likewise if we put prime Jordan into today's game, he'd be expected to shoot more 3s (and score less overall) and foul out from "excessive contacts". They just happened to play in different eras and played the way that worked best at that specific era.
One thing MJ would trump LBJ though is on ruthlessness. MJ was a relentless killer. LBJ acts like he is one.
I agree with your premise, but this is literally talked about in every Jordan v Lebron debate. It's not something people don't "take into consideration."
Nailed it - also keep in mind Lebron has been playing fresh out of High School. His stats are high because he shoots a lot - he also missing a lot - esp. at key moments in playoff positions
Ray Allen played against near prime Jordan during the latter Bulls 3 peat and also saved LeBron's legacy. Better listen what he has to say.
People don't realize how good Jesus Shuttlesworth was
Lol saved his legacy for doing what he gets paid to do. Lebron saved his own legacy by putting him in that position to hit a shot clown
@@BIGJERSEY908 you sound ignorant as hell 😂
Prime Jordan at the end of his career? Make it make sense.
No he didn’t
When your own teammate, on a year when your team won the championship, says your not the GOAT, that is significant. Ray Allen is an all-time record holder and NBA champ himself. He played against Jordan and played with James. Allen is definitely qualified to make that statement that MJ is better.
For as great of a basketball player as Ray Allen is and was, he is wrong. Ray Allen, fundamentally speaking, was a better basketball player than both Jordan and James. Better shooter, super athletic, excellent ball handler, and understood the game very well. He could create his own shot, shoot efficiently from anywhere, he had it all. He was Jesus Shuttlesworth. But surely he can understand, that as good as he was, he was no Lebron James. A physical specimen, freakishly gifted, etc. Ray Allen could do anything on the court Jordan could do. He can't do everything Lebron could. Surely Ray Allen, as intelligent as he is, can understand this. He doesn't mention any of it. Why? Does he not understand? Or is he being dishonest? I think too highly of Ray Allen's intellect to think he doesn't understand this. I think he's just being dishonest for some reason I have no information to explain.
@@runegeezy so name sum lebron can do tht Mj couldn’t
@@letmediecast very arguable I don’t think lebron is stronger than prime Jordan but clearly we was talking skill here backing down a big is not skill either u big enough to do it or not thts tht
@@runegeezyyou're right that it is a bit of a dishonest argument but that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong. I have Jordan too because nobody ever looked better doing it.
MJ is the GOAT and Lebron is 2nd.
In the history of the NBA with all the amazing players only 1 has won a ring, a scoring title, MVP, FMVP and first team all defense in the same year ...MJ did it 4x That's why he is the GOAT
I think being seen as the GOAT isn't just based on stats and accolades. I think half of it is how many people you can inspire to watch you and play basketball themselves. For example, Kobe falls short when it comes to MVP counts, but everytime we watch him play we get excited and every part of the game is thrilling.
That's just my take.
But it's a fair one too. Even I wanted to be like Mike and was the reason I even started playing in the first place, even though I wasn't a Chicago Bulls fan. That's true greatness.
I’ll end the simple debate. Any player known to “flop” is discredited in any goat conversations. James is well known to flop and even sit out games. Jordan never flopped or purposely “chose” to sit out games.
Yuup
Jordan would bitch and flop too. Check the tapes
Agree. That does discredit lecrybaby
Right on! as i said in another comment, imagine the horror of GOAT bball player not only flopping, and outright quitting regular season games because of not liking something.
Players used the frustration to heck win, not blow up and quit, somebody point me to a game where mj did not foul out, but outright sat out the whole game because he was upset?
the "flu game" or food poisoning he still rained it down.
@@timelord2745 for sure none of us would look at mj or Kobe the same if they did that. But he gets a pass for crying on the bench when they lost in the finals in 2014
I’m from Australia..and most Ozzie’s know MJ is the Goat of basketball 🏀 👍🏾
BIRD..
@@alanduff1054 Bird is my number 2.
@@iggyblitz8739 That'll DO I guess... :)
@@alanduff1054 bird😂 not even top ten
You watch TV . Space jam an be like Mike commercials.... best marketed.
The only people who think LaBron is better than Jordan are those who are too young to have seen Jordan.
Ray Allen was a phenom. Loved his game. And Lebron can't stop traveling or flopping.
Or faking foot 🦶 injury
Jordan was consistent. He never took a day off for low management. When he was on the court, he was coming at you from both sides, offense and defense. He was relentless!
It’s called professionalism and integrity! Just a different time and mindset! It was beautiful ball back then!
Jordan took years off. He retired 3 different times
Load
Bro pls. Jordan basically quit basketball and then had to come back. Lebron takes load management at the age of 38. Jordan was heaving up and down at that age. Show some respect
@@alvingeorge775 that boi bron played one full season Jordan on the other hand played nine not to mention at 40 years old mj played one full season so let that sink in brother
Ray Allen has the most qualified opinion on the face of the earth on this subject. He was Lebron's teammate and played against Jordan (the only person to do both) and still says Jordan is the GOAT without hesitation. 'Nuff said. 🤫
So when pippen said lebron was better that didn’t mean anything? Shut up clown
So does Chris Paul, DWade, and Carmelo Anthony.
@@Ronaldothegoat0728 Nooo... None of those players played against Jordan, so that makes no sense. Ray Allen played against Jordan in actual games, and was on LeBron's yeah later on. There is no one else that can make that claim.🤦
People are going to believe, what they want to.
I've been trying to get people to realize that for years...well said bro
Beautiful Beautiful commentary an thank you who ever done this sketch needs to post this truth
Two 3 championships in a row shadow LBJ. Without teaming up, LBJ probably still haven’t had any championship 😂😂😂
Finally someone said it. If you ask someone on the street who the best basketball player is, 9 times out of 10 they are NOT saying LeBron, he's very skilled but not MJ skilled. I just cant imagine putting LeBron over MJ in the GOAT debate, it's just never happening
Honestly, he's not skilled. A skilled player would be someone like Dream or Black Mamba. They had a bag of tricks. Lebron doesn't have a bag. Running opponents over or flopping isn't a skill. Lebron has a high basketball IQ. That's about it.
When did Bron pass Kobe? Cause Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan we fans ever saw. Kobe won 5 rings. He made 7 Finals. Look up how many all NBA defensive teams he made. 81 pts in a game, 62 pts in only 3 quarters. Mike the Kobe both got a 3 peat. No team has done it since Kobe/Shaq Lakers and Mike did it twice. Kobe keeps being moved up or for the most part pushed down these top 10 lists. Kinda wondering what he did from beyond the grave that made him a worse player 😂
@@rodneyc8126 Agreed. He has no go to move. He has no set of moves. He's never been a great shooter. His FG% outside of 8 feet is atrocious. He's just big and barrels into people. There are 20-25 players I can think of that are way more skilled than Lebron.
@@roboninja3194 Really annoying when the media puts him above Jordan. Have those idiots seen MJ play? That dude was a once in a lifetime player. Lebron is a good player but he ain't no where near 🐐 status. I don't understand how he surpasses Kobe and many others who were just better.
@@roboninja3194 🧢 🧢🧢🧢🧢
You don't need 3s when you drop 50 points scoring 2s. Stop it
Also looks like Jordan is actually a better 3pt shooter anyways
lmao plus lebron needs 2 stars to make the team play better. if he was making the team better like everybody thinks. then he shouldnt be needing 2 more stars to win
@@fofangfizz people probably say that because lebron shoots from half court some times as well
@@demboyz4082 He only had one star and won 2 years ago, KLove also missed a game in 2016 and wasn't an all star that year.
@@benjaminan1183 lame alibi lmao i bet youd here me laughing at you😂😂😂😂
Man, when you brought in the Coming to America barbershop scene, you got the Thumbs Up right away, I fell out laughing!
Michael's 3 point game was his least best skill. He had to work on them for years to get good by practicing like a madman. But he also knew when to shoot them especially back when the 3 was not all they did like in today's game
This debate ended in 2011 when Jason Terry outplayed Bron and beat the Bron Built Heat. Then in 2018 the Bron Built Cavs got swept in the Finals. Also in 2021 the Bron Built Lakers got bounced out the first round and Bron left the floor with almost 6 minutes left to "get treatment for his injuries." Not only has Bron come up small in big moments but he's proven to be a poor teammate if his team is losing. And all this while playing on teams he built!
How could you forget not making the play in
@@karticid4124 Thank you for the assist!
You’re crazy. The way you’re talking about Lebron is just hating. Lebron choked in 2011, that’s obvious, but how does that end the debate if he’s proven himself to be one of the greatest finals performers of all time in his later finals series. In 2018, he did way more and made it way further then anyone could have in the history of the nba. If MJ was put in his situation, he wouldn’t of made the finals. Nor would Kobe, Kareem, Magic, anyone. You’re saying he put himself in thst situation, which is only partly true. A player can push for their teams roster, but has no say in the final decision. That’s for the Cavs GM.
Lebron is by far the greatest player of this generation, and is a locked G.O.A.T. Candidate, with his all time place either being right behind Jordan, or just ahead. Put some respect on his name
@@vk7077 I'm not arguing Lebron isn't great. I'm just saying there is no GOAT argument when he's has poor performances like the ones I stated. And I'd argue his Finals record isn't even great. Yes he's been there 10 times, which is impressive BUT he's well below even .500. MJ was 6-0... tough to argue against that.
@@vk7077 And not for nothing but you said if MJ was put in his situation he might not have made the Finals? What situation? The one where Bron left to build a super team in Miami? Then when that lost its luster he left to join Kyrie and Kevin Love in Cleveland? Then when that lost it's luster he left for LA. Then when they got bounced out the playoffs he had them add AD. MJ didn't leave the Bulls or try to build super teams. Only one guy joined him and that was Rodman. And that was an aged Rodman. So I'm not sure which situation your referring too but MJ made the best of his. LeBron tried to manufacture teams to win titles. Yes he won but he also lost more often.
Lebron plays in an era of no hand checking against defenses where it’s easier to score the basketball and not as physical. How do you lose 6 finals in such an era? MJ never lost a finals series. There’s no debate here, only upset fans that never saw MJ play.
Tbh Michael had a fenomenal team, LeBron carried the Cavaliers by himself to the finals which is incredible, plus he had to fight against the warriors probably the strongest team in those years
@@_dani__ lebron jumpshiped and created superteams that still lost. Jordan had a great team but not superteams.
@@alfray1072 didn't jordan have two HOF is that not a super team
And the NBA allows LeBron to do what he wants know Defence can’t stop him because of this. But shows other superstars curry especially Kevin Durant Jayson Tatum and do in not the same respect as LeBron!! I have literally seen LeBron James grab somebody and pushed them out the way just so he can score and every game and the refs act like they don’t see it. and the NBA wants LeBron to pass Michael Jordan so they can start saying he is a goat prove me wrong it’s all facts.
Everyone knows the NBA put all their eggs in one basket (Micheal Jordan).
MJ is shorter, smaller, weaker than LeBron. Hand checking rules, whilst they make scoring inside harder, on the opposite end of the spectrum they'd make playing defense hella easier. Who's more built to sustain physicality? Jordan? Or LeBron?
Get real old schoolers.
You said he had 6 threes and 35 points in game 1 in 92. What you failed to mention is that was in the FIRST HALF.
The thing about Jordan was the consistency to make the shots and plays WHEN IT MATTERED.
Absolute most clutch player ever.
Yeah he had great players surrounding him, but so did Lebron, Steph, Kobe, whoever else you want to put in the mix.
The fact of the matter is MJ relentlessly wanted to be the absolute best and win as much as possible. He gave well over 100% on the court every time.
He made his teammates focus and demanded that they win at all costs and they did.
There weren’t any fancy handshakes, social media, dances, etc.
This man was legitimately pissed af with what he had to endure with Detroit and all the years leading up to the first Finals win.
That’s why he ripped into his own teammates to get on his level and show them what it takes to make it on top.
The man had a basketball stadium built on set of the Space Jam movie he was filming so he could invite all the top players in the NBA at the time and compete against them and understand what he has to deal with next season.
That’s a completely different mindset and hunger than what we have now.
It’s not to say the NBA isn’t talented or driven nowadays, it’s just way different.
Ray Allen have the right to talk about the GOAT debate.He saved Lebron's legacy in 2013.
Didn’t Paxton and Kerr save jordan ? 🤔
@@clampsgaming439 Jordan knew when he can't pull it he knew when a teammate had the night.Thats why he assisted Pax and Kerr he always warned them to be ready.
Unlike Lebron who takes the last shot for the spotlight,If it wasn't for the fact that Bosh rebounded and Allen scored the 3 his legacy would've be under big doubt at this moment.Just like KD's right now.
@@nevelinmitev9391 bro your such a hypocrite 😂Lebron scored 16 in the 4th that game ! Fuck Ray Allen’s shot of Lebron didn’t score all those damn points that 3 wouldn’t have meant shit so enough with the “ Allen saved Lebron “ it’s a damn team sport stfu
Wat do u mean legacy lol, saved him losing a ring yes but legacy no. Even he lost he still a top 5 player of all time
@@eliasjohn9247 exactly my point
So true bro MJ was in a class all by himself The G.O.A.T
Jordan had no weaknesses in his game. The way the game was played in his era, any weak points he had, he removed. Say that about LeBron....I'll wait.
MJ was and still is in a class by himself. The real #23!
he aint holding nothing not one record he by his self at the bottom
MJ GOAT...Now and Forever
Also the league wasn’t soft on the players they actually played rough during the 90’s
There are hundreds of stories about Michael Jordan, and what he did, and said to teammates players and owners etc LeBum has none of those legendary stories 😂😂😂 nobody feared him 😆
I had forgotten about MJ's postup game which is highly underrated and very seldon spoken of.
A literal HOF, who played against both [in prime] & was a teammate of one of them --- I'd say he's darn qualified to make this call.
You can't be in the GOAT debate if you can't even hit a damn freethrow in a clutch situation, and this is the BIG reason he's not the first option in clutch situations, as we've seen a gazillion times throughout his entire career.
Furthermore, whenever things get tough on his team, he ALWAYS quits.
Leads the playoffs in turnovers More than anyone can't be the goat impossible
word
@@johnnyporter5605but leaded the playin points assist and rebounds 😂😂😂and minutes played y’all hilarious
@@donkrider72caprice because he stat pads. If you looking for someone who just wants the WHOLE team to be better and involved go look at Butler. The narrative with Lebron is that even if he played poorly and soneone else clutched the game it was always him who did good but if his team loses there always, always has to be a scapegoat. Yes Westbrook I’m looking at your sorry ass
@@ljfacil Miami is gonna lose 4-1🤣🤣🤣like everyone else who has played Denver lmao!! MJ stat padded his first 8 years dude Bron needed AD to step up and he didn’t folks be hollering clutch when Bron hit more clutch shots than MJ and Kobe combined 🤣🤣🤣
The GOAT turned up when it really mattered 🐐
As a Knick fan I can say anyone that thinks MJ isn’t the goat knows nothing about basketball !!! Nothing !!
In Jordan's prime, he won 25 out of 26 playoff series. 25-1. What does LeBron have on his resume that even compares to that? 8 straight Finals? Jordan only went to 6 in 8 seasons because he retired for almost 2 years playing baseball.
Lebron would need the following just to TIE Jordan.
9 more scoring titles, 4 more all defensive first teams, 3 league steals leaders, 2 more finals MVPs, 1 more league MVP, a scoring title and DPOTY at the same time, 3 ppg higher scoring for career, a 37 ppg season (the highest season ppg average ever), an 82 game season with 34 ppg, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and 1.5 blocks per game (league record), and 2 more titles.
All that just to TIE Jordan. It’s obvious Lebron ain’t the GOAT. He’s top 5 for sure, but not the GOAT.
Isn't the highest season PPG Wilt with 50?
@@DebasedAnon That wasn’t the NBA yet.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc It was, NBA was founded in 1946 and Wilt played in the NBA not ABA.
@@DebasedAnon The stats for modern era are all after the merger in 1976, because of rules differences and such.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc Well if you specify "modern era" then sure I guess but your original statement was "highest season ppg average ever", I'm not sure "modern era" even has an official definition though.
My daughter used to play basketball in middle school and I overheard her and another girl from her team having this conversation. Other girl: "Lebron is a better player than Michael Jordan". My daughter: "This conversation is over, because you obviously have never seen Michael Jordan play".
That famous shrug where the commentator said something like, “Jordan doesn’t know what’s happening either”. That wasn’t it. Jordan said he chose not to shoot 3s bc of the style he played. Not that he couldn’t. That shrug wasn’t one of disbelief. It was a shrug of a, “I told you so”
Seven scoring titles in a row before the second three peat.all this with the team that drafted him.despite the disfunction in the front office.despite no other stars until he himself developed scottie
That within itself is goat shit 💯
Yeah I love the fact that he won a scoring title and defensive player of the year in the same season..😲..That means he was the best defensive and offensive player in the NBA in the same season..🤔🤔..Nuff said..🎤 DROP!!!
Bruh, not to mention he won DPOY while winning also the scoring title at 35 ppg. 35 PPG! averaged 3 steals that season! And before that he average 37 PPG!
I like how you mentioned a commonly missed truth that Jordan Developed Scottie. People don't understand this
@@marklupica3296 won MVP that year too and I think all star game MVP
MJ was so good that he transcended the sport itself. MJ was a high energy player who played above the rim, he simply moved beautifully and was a must see at all times. Lebron is good, but Jordan changed how ballers wore their gear and everybody went bald when MJ went bald. I can have on a Lakers game and although Lebron is playing I know he will not do something that is must see TV like Jordan did. Lebron's breakaway dunks are awesome and powerful, but Jordan enjoyed dunking over 3 players at the same time at the rim, it was awesome.
Lebron changed the game as far as players looking at teams as a business and not a family. He also made it a thing to team up with your rivals. I’d say Jordan and curry had an overall bigger effect on basketball
LEBRON JAMES LEGACY TRANSCENDS HIGHER THAN BASKETBALL HE IS A EXCELLENT BUSINESS MAN HE SUPPORTS HIS COMMUNITY AND HE WILL SPEAK OUT AGAINST INJUSTICE NOT WORRYING ABOUT HIS BOTTOM DOLLAR AND THE MAIN REASONS WHY SOME HATE HIM SO HE WANT SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE HES NOT A KNOWN GAMBLER HE IS STILL WITH WIFE AND CHILDREN'S AND HE STAYS OUT OF TROUBLE THIS BREAKS THE NORM THIS ALSO CAUSES HATERS TO HATE FOR LEBRON IS SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MANY TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOT STEPS.
@@smokenojoke8182 yup
@@smokenojoke8182 yup
@@smokenojoke8182 magic bird iverson all also have bigger impact on the game
When the young minds of our generation argue their points with facts and not feelings. Maaaan there's no better viddies to watch.... Great work young g!
LeBron broke the scoring record, and got swept in the playoffs the same year 😆
People need to remember the massive difference in the three point game between then & now. Back then, the 3 wasn’t shot much at all. A team with good a 3 pt shooter may have taken 10-11 3s a game, total. Now individual players shoot almost that many on their own, and teams will jack up 30+ 3s a game. That’s 3 times as many as back then.
Jordan only averaged about 0.5 threes per game for his career, and still has the highest ppg average in NBA history, PLUS the year he had the highest single season ppg average in NBA history (37.1) he only shot 0.7 threes per game.
These guys literally jack up 7 times as many 3s as MJ did, and still can’t score on the level he did. That says a lot.
Yep, also says a lot about so called analytics being the better option to score too, it's not always the case, high percentage closer range shots have value, and when to shoot a three should depend on the flow of the game and situation.
💯
Without question, there are a lot more players that I consider to be more skilled than LeBron, But his IQ and ability to win is superior to all!
This is such an idiotic take. Jordan had plenty of great teammates that shot the 3 well and won games for the Bulls with 3s!!! He wasn't one of them. No need to make excuses for him. Lots of guys shot the 3 well and were in the game specifically to shoot 3s. Including his own teammates who shot the 3 better than he did. Don't act like there wasn't a 3 point line when he played. He could have shot it better if he was a better shooter but he wasn't that good from 3, period. No excuses.
@@runegeezy Idk how u figured he wasn't good at 3s when he literally shot the 3 average %. Also he didn't have to shoot the 3 cause he was killing them with the mid range. Here let me help you out Bron about to pass Kareem right but in doing that its cause he shoots 3s cause of 2days game. Kareem scored that many only shooting 2s that should help. So excuses are only made when there is no facts ...fact is Jordan is just better than Lebron in alot of areas is all.
I'll take Ray's words over any so- called,sports reporter guy played against both and he's right.
Me to
Ray was one of my all time favorite players.. He's obviously right about MJ being better than LJ by miles, but greatest.. By championships it's Russell.. Records it's Wilt.. MJ was certainly on the Mt. Rushmore tho..
Lebron had the best team for four years in Miami. He went 2-2. Lucky for Ray Allen or Lebron would’ve went 1-3. MJ is the goat.
My favorite MJ moment to watch with Rodman not even looking at the basket cause he knew MJ had the shot.
It's just crazy to me...MJ won every single award there was to win except the three point shootout for gods sake!!!!...but he even tried the three point contest, granted a dismal performance, but at least he tried.
He mastered all facets of the game with freakish athleticisim, and the fact he retired and just came back and picked up right where he left off shows just what a freak of nature this man was, not to mention still schooling young cats when he was with the Wizards, past his prime, and still putting up numbers worthy of an all star selection. There is just no comparison to Lebron There just isnt.
Kobe is a more worthy comparsion.
For all you clowns bringing up the fact that Lebron passed Jordan on all time scoring list, it took him 18 seasons to do it... Jordan only played for 15... In a comparison, everything that happened after that 15 season, is null... including that fake ass bubble championship.
Plus have you seen the league today? Dancing laughing and stupid as defense.. You mock people this much back in the days, you will kiss the floor and blood would spill.
Soft defense, even cats could play offense.. wake me up when basketball is a contact sport.
Not to mention Jordon missed almost a whole year with his broke leg
Yeah and it only toke Lebron an additional 240 games lmao
13 seasons* we not counting wizards days
Retirement and leg injury? 13 seasons practically
Just imagine for a single moment MJ in a press conference saying: "our team lacks shooting", "we ain't good enough"... And on the top of that one of his teammates smiling about that. You can't right?
Cause Jordan was blessed with the greatest teammates of all time and the greatest coach of all time
Jordan literally punched his teammate in the face. All his teammates said he was an asshole too. He wasn’t a better teammate lol
@@josephdimascio9044 yea but he made them better and work their asses out, not just politically speaking on the press
@@SmellyFartSoHard no he didn’t. They were already good
@@josephdimascio9044 Lol. Isiah Thomas broke his hand punching big Lamb in the face during practice as well. I know its foreign to this softer young generation but that was 80s and 90s basketball.
Jordan retired for a couple years to play baseball, then came back to tje nba and won 3 straight championships. Who the hell does that? GOAT
Didn't have six threes, he had 6 for 6 in the 1st half, you must tell the whole story.
There is no comparison. MJ has been the best player since he came into the league. Next up is Kobe. Lebron is nowhere near the skill set of Kobe or MJ
Facts
Absolutely
this is one of the worst takes i have ever heard
@@LilHarveyit’s true though, Lebron has a horrible mindset, and yeah he has the stats but he’s not ridiculously impressive and it’s sad because he’s one of the best playing in a pussy generation and still loses
Kobe isn’t even the second best Laker of all time, how is he gonna be the second best player of all time? 😂
Le Bron? Compare to Michael Jordan? Even Le Bron can't compare with Scottie Pippen.
What music were they playing in this video
The early years of Jordan that I watched unfold live was.... lit. He was doing things you just didn't see other players do. The excitement he was generating in regular season games was nothing like anything we have seen since.
Like his 63 point game in the Boston Garden in the postseason. It took a team with 5 HOF players to hold off MJ & it took them double OT to do it. That's when Larry Legend said it was God disguised as Michael Jordan.
There was an artistry to MJ's game that has never been matched. I remember channel surfing and if the Bull's were playing I had to watch to see what MJ was going to do. His game was always must see TV.
There were a lot of people watching the NBA that quit watching after Jordan left. I hate to admit it, I was one of them. I realized I wasn't an NBA fan -- I was a Jordan fan -- as so many others were. Leflop will never have that impact on the game.
Same for me; I’m not a basketball fan but could not resist watching/respecting the game when Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were on the court. I would stop channel surfing EVERY time for these two players who were magical in their time’s or era’s in basketball!#Boston Celtics#ChicagoBulls#🏀🔥✨#🏀👑’s@ John Milligan
The irony of Lebron having a taco commercial pop up before the video started is just amazing.
LeAnkleLessFlop James has always been a role player riding other elite athletes’ coattails😂
It's simple. At 27 Jordan Swept the defending Champ Pistons to win 3 straight Championships.
At 27 Lebron packed his suitcase, ran to the Heat Superteam, promised not 5 not 6 not 7 chips then won only 2, then got blasted in 2014 by a record margin. Whined at the presser afterward. Said regular people have sucky lives. Then he bolted to another Superteam in Cleveland.
I could go on and on and on..
The reason that MJ’s three point percentages are so low was because 1. He didn’t shoot them that much because of his philosophy (which was he thought it took away from his game, which was to penetrate to score or get his teammates open) and 2. Which is probably the main reason, he usually shot threes when when the shot clock was going down and was forced to shoot a low percentage three. If MJ was looking for high percentage 3s his 3 point percentage would’ve been higher
Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve doesn’t matter it didn’t happen. And plus just because it’s his philosophy doesn’t change anything, it was his decision and no one else’s.
BTW, he also steadily improved and became a pretty good (not great) 3 pt shooter mid career on. As teams went in that direction more.
Thats because 3 point shooting wasn't the main focus back in Jordan's era like it is in today's game. If it was Jordan's 3 point percentage would definitely be higher.
@@kingchriistiian6757 yeah still Lebron can't be GOAT, imagine forming a team consisting of 4 of the 75 greatest player yet he was not able to qualify to the Play In.
@@zinjgreen3398 fair point. I will admit, it is embarrassing he didn’t at least make the play in. But I view it kind of differently. Sure they are in the top 75, but this season was terrible for them. Ad was injured most of the season and Russ is just dysfunctional. Which shouldn’t be put on Lebron.
What's the names of the songs used in this video?
I think people don’t realize that Jordan wasn’t even ring chasing. He stuck with his home squad and made them champions. And for the super team argument, Pippin averaged more playing with Jordan than without Jordan.
I've always been on the side of Jordan being the goat but this analysis was absolutely mind blowing. Nice job from a new sub!!!
The biggest difference between lebron and Jordan besides heart and killer instinct is Jordan showed up when it really counted for example No one hit as many game winners in the FINALS than Jordan or clutch freethows when they counted than Jordan and lebron is just not that reliable under real pressure and that doesn't show up in overall stats just like Heart and killer instinct don't show up in stats.
AMEN
Agreed, but Jordan showed up all the time. He never took games off (unless injured, which wasn't much after his foot injury in the second or third year).
Preach
my earliest memories of Jordan was when he played with Orlando Woolridge in the old Chicago Stadium and I remember watching the magical shot against Cleveland on SportsChannel ;-)
The biggest difference between LeBron and Michael is that in the 4th quarter everyone knew that the ball was going to Mike and they still couldn't stop him because he wanted the ball. LeBron has never been "that guy" in the 4th quarter. Yes, LeBron is good, but he'll never be the greatest.
That's y Ray is my dawg. No cap in his words🙏🙏🙏🙏
We live in a world where people trash folks for telling the truth! Ray was 💯 correct and folks mad 😡 come on smh 🤦🏻♂️
Use Ray's logic was a great 3 or ft shooter? No he was very good but to be considered great you should be at a minimum of 87% ft he had the mid range he was a very good to great defensive player. But not the greatest ball handler rebounder blocker or passer. Lbj wilt ai Kobe and others could score just as well as mj. So how he could he be goat when he isn't at or near top in all these statistical categories? See any flawed logic w that take?
@@showtime6667 bro all u need to kno is jordan went 6-0 in the finals and lebum went 4-6 nuff said 😂😂😂😂
@@kylonp7311 so chips right? Bill has 11 so he obviously is the goat followed by Halvicheck and Horry? I mean you wanna use the ultimate team accomplishment to decide the greatest player. Again mj is too good have to resort to such toxicity
@@showtime6667 but Russell never won finals mvp and horry never won no individual award or ever started so that was dumb to bring him up and nobody thinks that Halvicheck is the goat at anything so I dnt kno y u brought him up either seems like your desperate kid 😂😂😂😂😂
@@showtime6667 and if we’re talking about jordan and lebum then y in the hell are u bringing up bill Russell nobody thinks he’s the goat y come everytime someone brings up rings when comparing lebum and jordan u lebum fan girls bring up players from the 1950s to try to help your argument I never herd any jordan fans bring up no other players when it comes to the goat debate plz so y are quick to bring up bill Russell plz make it make since cause bill Russell is not going to save lebum kid so stop bringing him up the debate is between 6-0 vs 4-6 not who has the most rings ever 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️😂😂😂😂😂
its honestly so disrespectful to hear people compare Lebron and Jordan. Jordan is leagues better than Lebron it's insane.
MJ without question is the undisputed GREATEST
LeBron, not even close... There was no one as clutch like M.J
at ALL...
you dan know
hmmm. maybe Larry Legend.
@@spaltersar DEFINITELY Bird...
@@alanduff1054 "if I had to chose a player to take a shot to win a game, I'd chose Michael Jordan. If I had to chose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd chose Larry Bird." - Pat Riley
The "Decision" ended this pointless debate. Had he stayed in Cleveland the whole time and won 7 consecutive rings, he would be in this conversation.
No way in hell Cleveland wins anything, you just wanted him to stay there so you'd be able to call him a ring-less loser like Barkley.
So when teams trade players it's ok but when players trade teams it's bad? Smh
I agree that Decision was so stupid. Even if he only won 1 ring I would have him in my top 3 but changing teams, he was looking for the easy win.
@@danielhall1226 bro what😭💀
Not only do I have MJ as the goat over Lebron, I have Kobe over Lebron.
Jordan changed the entire league, players feared him and coaches couldn't figure him out! This went on through his career and how do you compare to two 3 peats, never choked in crunch time, DIDN'T RUN TO ANOTHER TEAM so now they want use stats now!
Yep.. and no one fears lebron but kendrick perkins.
@@alco1414 and the entire city of Toronto.
@LVS Don't forget about Pop...
@LVS I don't have stats in front of me but are you sure???
@LVS you right... I stand corrected....
LeBron’s character flaws, manifesting on multiple occasions in a lack of competitive drive/fire, to me take him way out of consideration as greatest ever. However, he is definitely in the running as greatest self promoter ever
You don't reach 8 Straight finals without competitive fire. Stop It.
At multiple points during his career, whether it’s at the micro level of frequently not getting back on defense or otherwise phoning it in on that side of the ball, all the way to the macro level of seeking to build superteams and “getting more help“ to try to assure him an easier path to a ring, LeBron has displayed far more hunger for glory and adulation than actual competitive fire. I have also frequently seen him wilt under adversity and just plain give up: Exhibit A being LeBron’s tantrum/shutdown in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals after JR Smith’s mental blunder at the end of regulation. If you consider someone with that level of mental weakness a legit contender for greatest ever, that’s your lookout.
@@PabluchoViision their fan boy nothing more they will only see his good never his major flaws which takes him out the Goat conversation mofo just lazy and a cry baby
@@PabluchoViision Don't act like Jordan's Bulls wasn't a super team with players like Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. They are all HOFers and 2 of them are also on Top 75 list. I am not discrediting MJs greatness because of that. Only Lebron's heat was a Super Team, 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers were as good as any average NBA team and nowhere close to a Super Team. Without Lebron, they were barely a playoff team and Bulls reached Conference Semis without MJ, that's how good they were on their own. And If you call a 50 point night a shutdown, then I don't even know what to say.
@@rohanbhaunt That still doesn’t change the fact that in 2018 the cavs came out of the “Leastern Conference.” It was a very weak conference.. It’s also the reason why Lebron made it to 8 straight Finals.
Onto your analogy on why the bulls did well after Jordan left:
#I- The bulls were built from the ground up. They didn’t trade all their draft picks to build an All-Star team around him. They actually kept most of their draft picks and drafted well.
#2-They were coached by Phil Freaking Jackson. That
#3- Jordan helped forge his teammates into what they became. Tough, competitive, high basketball IQ’s, unselfish and understanding their role within the team.
Lebrons teams went down in flames after he left because they didn’t have jack for draft picks. He had them all traded for All stars. Thus, those former teams couldn’t build from the draft.
#2- Lebrons playing style involves him having the ball in his hands most of the time. It also involves having shooters around him. It’s a decent team style of play but as soon as he leaves the team they have nothing but shooters who can’t create very well off the dribble. That’s when it becomes disastrous.
#3~ His former teams never have a Phil Jackson to pick up what’s left of the pieces after Lebron definitively leaves.
Look, this isn’t rocket science. It’s easy to see. I hate to break it to Lebron fans but Lebron should never even be considered for the GOAT conversation. He’s the ALL TIME leader in turnovers, has a weak jumpshot and is abysmal at the line.
And don’t get me started on defense..
Jordan couldn't have done it without the help of Pippen and Rodman. He has got a way better helpers. It's a team game.
If Lebron was 6'5 he would be average, but if Jordan was 6'9?? GG's
Mike made everybody in the league better because he was that guy you had to worry about. He didn’t blame his teammates, he just forced them to compete at a much higher level. Mike and the Pippen combo was a nightmare for teams and they only got better as they added key players to the Bulls. Mike did it consistently on one team against a more aggressive league at that time. Mike made sure you didn’t forget him and like now, he doesn’t have to say a word about being the goat because those that saw him play, well, we all know!!! My second runner up is Kobe because he mirrored Mike which in some ways made his skill set a lot harder to compete with. I like Lebron, always have always will but I saw Jordan play 😂 😂 😂
W comment
@color toe can’t forget The Worm. Definitely a “major” key player added to the Bulls legacy 👍🏾
I never seen MJ go to the line and miss 2 free-throws in crunch time, but have seen LeBron do it on at least 3 occasions (once against Dallas which cost them the series).
he choked that whole series out played by a bench player that finals alone takes him out this ridiculous conversation about the real goat
Holy shit those free throw clips were actually painful to watch 😂
Payback for what he did to Gilbert Arenas 😂😂😂
He purposely missed FT because he wants his points to stay at 45. When someone said 45 is not 23. He switched to Number 23 jersey and made 45 points.
Lebron is number 2 in most game winning/tying shots in history of the nba just a couple shots short of kobe who is number 1. people saying lebron isn‘t clutch doesn‘t make sense to me, stay hatin tho he keeps proving y‘all wrong. It all started with the 2016 Finals when he won against all odds, never have i seen MJ „against all odds“