How to Make MORTAR from SCRATCH! Fat and Deck Mud for TILE
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2019
- Have you ever wondered how to make your own mortar from scratch? Well, this video will answer all of your questions. Both of these types of mortars can be used for tile in a shower or anyplace a flat or level substrate is needed for tile. To see how to float a wall or a floor make sure to check out my other videos.
I use a recipe for "fat mud" or "wall mud" that consists of 5 parts sand, one part cement, and one part lime. This recipe can be adjusted richer to a 4 part sand to one part cement to 1/2 part lime. But I like the 5-1-1 ratio.
The sand is the most important part to getting good wall and floor mortar, and it should be sharp or course stucco or plaster sand. Not the round granules that are from beaches.
For "deck mud" or "dry pack" mortar, I use a recipe that consists of 5 parts sand to one part cement. Again, some people like a 4-1 ratio, but I find it much harder to screed and finish because the mud will start to clump up.
As for the water ratio, everyone has their own preference but it was 2 parts water for the fat mud and 1/2 part water for the deck. Temperature, humidity, and the dryness of the sand will affect the water ratios. I would say the range of the water ratios would be for fat mud 1-1/2 parts to 2 parts and for the deck mud 1/2 part to 3/4 part. Remember, its a lot easier to add water than have to mix more dry into the batch.
Hope you like the video!
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Leave your comments in the section below, and we'll see you on the next video. - Zábava
We did a hospital kitchen area with quarry tile. I mixed up all my dry pack on sheets of plywood. 10 heaping shovels of sand to 2 heaping shovels of Portland cement. Used a flat shovel (square tip) for mixing. I added just a touch more water to mine to extend working time. We had 8 floor drains on this kitchen floor, so we had slope in all different directions. Worked out really well. Some guys use cement mixers for large areas like this. I like the plywood method myself.
I'm in the business over 35 years. An old timer around 80yo showed us a way to mix deck mud using a small tarp. 5-1 all tossed into the middle of a tarp. One guy on each end walk back and forth flipping the ingredients until mixed. Add water doing the same back and forth. So easy it's stupid...lol experience is everything.
Working on our tub to shower conversion. Tried that deck mud mixing stuff this weekend to make my pre-slope. Picked up sand from the gravel pit at $2 a bucket, a bag of Portland cement, a couple floats and a mixing pan and used a heavy duty rake to dry mix the ingredients and then added a few sponges of water to it. Easy as can be. Got it right the first time and was nice to work with. Was anxious for a day while it was drying. But that stuff gets really light grey and rock hard. Nice and smooth too. Thanks a ton for sharing your knowledge. As a DYI'er (who seem to get a bad rap on youtube for some reason...) these videos help a lot with the research.
I really enjoy your content and I appreciate the fact that you are really trying to help people better themselves by teaching your trade. I wish more business owners and bosses would do the same. Great job all around. ✌️ from South Georgia
I work at Walmart and I've been remodeling my whole house you have made me really good at doing showers I'm done with the old original 2 bathrooms in my home and I'm currently building from nothing a master bathroom in my basement out of half of my laundry room it's not crazy big but it's going to be so nice when it's done all because of you seriously but I absolutely hate my job I wish I could just do this kind of work forever it's so fun to me but there's nothing Like this near me I'm in central Ohio I wish there was crews I could find that was close and willing to hire a 31 year old with the drive to make amazing bathrooms thanks for the videos you have taught me so much
I went to college and had my own business after graduating. I had fun and made a lot of money too. However, my father in law convinced me to try the trades because he felt that there was more to life than working long hours and devoting myself to my business. He said I would find even more joy and professional growth plus have time for the family. So, I took the tests & was accepted into a five year apprenticeship with the Electricians Union and loved it. Now 30 years later I can honestly say that the trades offered more in the way of creativity and challenge. I made a boat load of money too. I was a commercial Union electrician and found that the 25 year learning curve was just up my alley. The Trades are a beautiful thing. I did use my expensive education to further my career, give me opportunity and a broaden my horizons. Yes, college and the trades go together like bread and butter.
Another excellent video. Issac and Vancouver carpenter are my 2 go To's for construction and building advice.
Don’t you mean tile and drywall advice? Lol
Essential Craftsman is another awesome construction resource
@@SimpleTitle Another favorite of course
Here's a small tip for you if you don't have an electric mixer and if you need to mix a small batch, Isaac. Pour all the dry ingredients in a bucket, then pour the full bucket in another bigger bucket, then pour it back in the first bucket (and so on, again and again, until the mixing looks good). Sorry for my average English, I'm a native french speaker. Greetings from Belgium, Europe - Keep up with the good work !
Nice.
Thats a great tip.
Doesn't that initially create a lot of fine dust from the cement and lime? Isaac seemed to be very cautiously blending the ingredients at the start. I would have thought one would just place the dry mix ingredients in the larger container to begin with and then firmly snap on the lid that come with these plastic pails and then roll it around like a rotary mixer.
Or just pop the lid back on and roll the bucket around like a concrete mixer barrel
Trash bag method is the best if you are strong enough. Saves me a Gym membership.
Very cool . I'm from Maine and have been flooring for over 14 years and my family has been In this business for over 40 years. We do everything where I am from. Carpet ,ceramic tile,vinyl hardwood,lvp,lvt. I always love to learn more about my trade. Thanks for your videos it means alot to better my craft.
Thanks for the most informative tutorial in this field. The explanations, the how-to demonstrations, the testing of numerous products, all presented in a simple to follow manner along with an inspiring can do attitude, is most motivating and encouraging!
Thank you Coach! I can't find fat mud anywhere in Minnesota, this just saved me the hassle. I'll be using these recipes for sure!
Dropping the pan and mixing 7 buckets of fat and 2 deck mud,was always the beginning of the helpers day, when ever we had a 3 wall Shower and his/ hers vanity.i like mixing it old fashioned as
well.premix bags, always felt to sandy to me. My setters like their mud fairly rich. This is a great video. Has his mixture ingredients on point. definitely journeyman.
I feel like the end of the video you were talking directly to me. I work IT but I have always loved DIY and carpentry. This last summer I rebuilt our sinking deck attached to our house with helical piers and composite decking material. I make good money in IT but I'm no longer fulfilled. I have been thinking more and more about doing something else but I'm 40 next month. I'm not sure I'm ready to take that plunge. But thank you for continually putting that bug in my ears in your videos.
I left IT back in 1999, been in the construction profession in all total 30 yrs.
If you jump make sure you have a great relationship with your wife, because the money wont be there (3-10yrs) unless you do a turnkey and buy a company, list of clients etc.
I am 46 and I am ready to take a plunge for this trade.
Been in automotive for over 24 years but want to start something that I can handle alone, work to my own schedule...
Hi! I am transitioning in to residential building. I have loved doing projects my whole life and this just seemed like a natural path. Thank you for your videos!
Thank you for taking time out of your day to explain this. It has honestly always been something that I wanted to do but didnt know what the stuff was even called.
You are awsome! Never made dry pack (deck mud) before and thanks to watching you i got it perfect! Thanks for what you do!
Your videos have been incredibly helpful to me. I appreciate the time you put in to create this content.
Best guy and tile coach ever. Thanks man i'm learning a lot from you.
Another great video. Real practical information wth easy to follow instructions. Thank you.
I've been watching a few of your videos lately. Great job mate. Fantastic information well presented, explained and demonstrated.
Recently I have had my rental property trashed by a tenant and as a result the bathroom needs to be stripped out and re build from the slab up. I can not afford to pay someone to do the work so I am going to get it done myself. I have had 6 months experience in construction so I have seen some tiling but never done any myself.
Your videos give me alot of confidence that with proper planning and attention to detail it may just be possible for me to successfully retile my bathroom.
I look forward to learning more from you and I am really excited to have a go myself.
Cheers mate....
Really good video and inspiration. Isaac's videos are always so up lifting. Thank you Issac!! Aaron from Oklahoma
Great video. Your tips and techniques are fantastic! I just did a shower pan with Home Depot concrete mix and I really had issues with it. I'll be implementing these deckmud mixes from now on. Thx a million!
I really like the kind of work you do. You inspire me to learn the right way to tile. Thank you
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, It is really appreciated. Great attitude also, Young Man! Blessings!
Thanks again for such a great video!
awesome job been waiting for this video
Thank you very much for the awesome work. Cheers
Thank you for this detailed information! I have been researching for days trying to figure out how smooth and level a rough bathroom floor here in the Caribbean where self-leveling underlayment is not available. Dry pack over a thin-set skim coat looks like a good solution.
Loved the video, very helpful
Hopefully t hi s video come up like Gold 👍
Isaac I have to say the differences from coast to coast are crazy!!
Thanks TileCoach
Hello from Lake Arrowhead
Exelente video muy util 100%
5:00 WOOAH there nelly, dat closeup tho.
Great video. Like the call out at the end for tradesmen. Some office type people look down on blue collar guys and think that the post secondary education gets them better pay as well😂. Let's not tell them what we make ok😉
You are the best
I hope this work out for me when I'm ready cuz I need to do lot of little projects experiments.
Flower pots of all sizes harvesting race bed. Etc
Great content as always Isaac. Do you ever add fibers to you wall mud? My uncle turned me onto them almost two years ago and it makes for a stronger mix. I picked up a 50# sac from the Silverado Mason Yard and still have 1/3 left.
😎 cool vid. Ironically I graduated college with a bachelor's in econ
Really enjoying and appreciating your videos. I’m a carpenter in my 50’s.
I’d like to finish the next 10-15 years learning how to set tile. It really speaks to me almost a “calling” and not as hard on the body.
Do you think I’m to old?
Excellent Tutorial!!!
Awesome Information!!!
Love your video’s!!!
BTW, thank you for leaving music out. DIY video’s with music is awful!
Right on about the music. They didn't play music in school. When I want info I want info. We probably don't have the same music taste any way. Music is like politics, it's polarizing.
Thanks for this video (and your others). I recently had tiles removed from an outdoor patio. They were the old quarry tiles done in the 60s with a wet lay technique and there is a really thick bed underneath on top of the slab to get the right fall. The removal job (which turned out to be unnecessary but that is another story) was tough and we decided mid job to leave as much of the bedding in place as possible to avoid having to re-lay it.
My question: If I mix use a deck mud to screed it back into shape, will it hold up to rain if it takes me a while to getting around to laying the tiles? Also, there are lots of divots in the existing bedding as a result of the tile removal. A tiler recommended using a self-levelling compound first to fill out the divots before screeding. What are your thoughts on this?
Yea. When u chop up the mud like that kinda makes u appreciate ur work more.
That’s what I love bout tile cause u don’t need any power tools up until u start setting tile. For the paper lath and float all hand made baby. Lol
Love your Vids...Keep up the great work. Why no lime in the dry pack??? Alos, could one use scratch/brown coat pre mix as a dry pack????
Thanks
Shooting in 4K from now on? It sure would be a +.
Crazy...
When I built my first ever house, it was a earth house out of sand bags and tires, to coat my walls I used the sandy red clay dirt in new Mexico, I would add Portland cement and lime, the stuff came out very hard and durable...
This reminds me of putting in elbow grease mixing a wheelbarrow full of mud using rubber gloves and my hands and arm's...
If you love what you doing it ain't work, plus getting swollen in the process... lol
Hi, I have found your videos very helpful. Thank you! One question. I want to lay ceramic tile with an isolation membrane. The manufacturer recommends an unmodified thinset. Can I use this mortar for this application? Thanks
just wondered if you have had any issues with your screeds drying, just that in the uk you couldn't really tile straight over a fresh/green screed say the next day, think the drying time here is a millimetre a day, so a 40mm screed would take 40 days before you could tile, or at least in theory, and you most defiantly would get problems if say you tiled or put a membrane over a UK sharp sand and Portland cement screed the next day, the screed would shrink to some degree and potentially curl etc. its also not really the done thing here to dampen the subfloor before, a cement slurry is used to prime or the screed floats indepently over a membrane. But in the states, all tile guys can tile straight over a green screed next day and don't seem to get any issues, and in your case have perfect finishes, wonder if your "ingredients" are that much different,
the sand you used is defiantly different, its kinda halfway between a building sand used for bricklaying and a sharp sand for screeds but i thought standard portland cement was the same bar maybe a bit off admix
Thank you for the very informative video. I'm patching mortar on old cobblestones that form the foundation for a cottage attached to the back of my house. Is there a way to color the mortar to make it match the older mortar?
Isaac, lacuna in my understanding of the mixing ratio is no longer. Thanks for the distinction between fat mud and deck mud. Again, Ů da Man!
Cheers from Quebec, John.
Of the two mud motors you offered here, which one would be best for making an outdoor fire pit? ...one that would arch over the fire?
The amount of water needed is related to the moister content of the sand.
"Dry" is a relative term when buying sand.
Unlike Cement/Lime, sand doesn't go bad if it gets wet. You just need to add less water.
Easy way to mix small batches is put the lid back on the bucket and roll it around. Best to only fill half way. A similar, but better way is to use the Leonard Odjob mixer - good for small-batch concrete mixes too.
Hi, here Mark from Slovak Republic. Do you know what´s the strength of the bed mud ? I want to use it as the floor under laminate flooring layer. Usually, we use concrete for such a purpose, but I found this bed mud more effective as seen in your videos. Thank for answer
I have the same question as the last comment. Isaac said for the most part he does not mix his own dry bed any more. I would like to know what product he uses for the dry deck mud and also what product he uses for thin set on top of a rough concrete base that will go between the concrete and deck mud. Thank you.
Can you pour a self leveling product over deck mud? I have a large bathroom floor that slopes 1 inch in 6 ft. I want to finish with glue down vinyl planks. I am thinking about leveling with deck mud and then pouring a 1/2 in of self leveling to creat a hard flat finish.
The previous owner of my house converted the garage to living space. They did not level to floor when they did that. Would deck mud work to level the floor? The thickness would be from about 4" to 1/4"? I would lay tile on the leveled floor in some areas and LVP or laminate in some areas.
Mike how would do a bid area in doing a wet bed and setting it up I have about 300 sf of floor
I thought to myself....FINALLY, NO ONE CAN POSSIBLY CRITIC THIS VIDEO....nope...it even has three dislikes...wtf? perhaps you should have done the video while riding a unicycle...
Maybe the dislikes are from Mr Starr Tile and his family 😂🤣😂
I do like you videos they are tops.but can you use sharp sand this is the coarse sand we have in uk
Question: Can I do deck mud under porcelain paver they are thicker than regular tile.. thank you.
Great.:-) :-) :-)
does the deck mud hardens up? if so, how long does it take?
which one would good for laying stone? The fat mud? or the dry mud?
hello need your help..
I have a bathroom floor 8 x 9 with tiles. I want to remove the tile and replace it with new. 24 x 24..
should I remove the the mud floor with steal mesh and add new 7/8 inch plywood and then retile? or is it better to leave the old mud and remove the old tile and
install new 24 x 24 tiles on top of the old mud floor.. basically what's best remove the mud floor and replace it with 7/8 plywood?
This video was very informative. I wish that I still lived on the west coast and could get the materials that you use. Could you explain (or show in a future video) how you set a Schluter drain into a mortar bed? I’ve watched the Schluter video about this, and they say to use a wetter mix around/under the drain. Is that mix the equivalent of fat mud or is it wet deck mud? I’m doing a Durock drain and they say that their drain won’t bond to dry pack, so they proscribe coating the underside of the drain flange with thinset while setting the drain in place on the dry-pack. Any light you can provide on this would be greatly appreciated.
There are plenty of videos on CZcams of schluter drains being installed. Lookie here. czcams.com/video/SVaPHoYkU-U/video.html
How thick and thin can this deck mud be set? Ive seen some products not work so well when thin and others not well when thick. Whats the MAX/ MIN recommended in this mixture? Thanks for the videos
Good question
Hello friend! Can you tell me what’s the name of the fat mud already mixed up in bags! I’ve been in the business for quite some time but I’m new to the floating and I’m having a really hard time with the regular mortar to plaster the walls! Thanks in advance hope I hear from you soon
Great video. I've looked at Quickcrete deck mud and it says from 1/2 to 1 1/2 to add a concrete fortifier instead of 1/2 the water. What do you recommend for minimum thickness and also what do you add if making it your own? Some sort of concrete glue? Please advise. Thanks. Also, I'm making a 14' x 14' exterior deck on 2nd floor and have pli-deck brand material already down on the lathe. There are 2 drains and so I need to slope to them. The slope starts 1 1/2 inches higher than the drains and I wish there was more but there is not (bad planning) So I was going to slope from 1 1/2 inches to 1/4" over about 6.5' distance maximum. Now I see 1/4" is pretty thin. What say you?
I meant to say I'm making the deck mud to do all this and followed your shower drain deck mud video so I'm treating the deck like 2 large shower drains.
I do pool tile. Can you make some videos on that?
I've been stuck using that sand topping bs for years. Your stuff looks way nicer. Going to try it next job. Thanks for sharing. Wondering also if adding another part sand would help the consistency of the sand topping. 🤷♂️
For what I call a batch of floor mud/deck mud I'll use 2 bags of sand topping mix and one bag of play sand. That brings it closer to the 5:1 mix that Isaac uses and is much easier to work with and screed. Same goes for his wall mud/fat mud start with a type N or type S mortar mix from the big box stores but add more sand to give it that workability.
@@joefowler3106 Be very careful with play sand. It's often just unwashed beach sand that contains salts. Use a washed sand.
Can Deck mud be used as a material floor material ??
Used some Mapei 4:1 mud deck mortar and it was terrible. Nasty fine sand that wouldn't lock in place making screeding really time-consuming. Because the sand is so fine and round (rolls like ball bearings), its strength relies almost exclusively on the cement binder, so you need to let it cure much longer than a well-graded, angular sand mix that Isaac recommends.
I have no clue why Mapei would use fine sand other than it's cheap.
question: what if here is no lime? what will be the ratio? thank you
Thank you so much for this video! What would do you use under the fat mud if you were working directly on plywood subfloor for a shower bed? Is there a primer or special coat we should use beneath the fat mud? Thanks ;)
You would use the deck mud, not fat mud on a floor. Aquabar paper, lath, and then deck mud.
@@TileCoach Is there a reason that you can't use plastic sheeting, rather than aquabar paper, or tar paper on a plywood subfloor?
When mixing schluter all set the bag says to mix at 300rpm’s. I need to get a mixer and curious if all mixers have rpm settings or if this is a standard speed of any handheld mixer?
Only more-expensive mixers have variable speed you can select. Check the drill motor to see what speed it runs - think most spin much faster than 300 rpm.
Have a stupid question. When measuring these “ingredients” out.....do you aerate them beforehand, than put in containers; I’m assuming you’re not going to pack* them into the containers, right?
*packed in like measuring brown sugar when baking....
Thx for the info & the vid. Used to be a chef when going to university & now in the trades...that’s why I referenced baking😂
Cheers✌🏼
I'm curious about what the consistency of the dried dry pack is? I put the pre-slope down two days ago, and there are spots that seem more solid than others, but most of it can be dug up with my finger. Was my dry pack too dry when I mixed it? I don't want to have to hammer it all back out and do it again, but frankly, getting it out doesn't seem too difficult, considering how easy it is to break apart. Can the softer areas be patched with more dry pack?
Vacuum the soft areas and fill with thinset.
so this deck mud will let water run right thru it? like on your pre slope video?
yes
I used mapei deck mud on my last shower and liked it. Iirc the bage said it was a 4:1 mix ratio.
Yes, and that Mapei deck mud is horrific compared to using 5:1 with a well-graded, angular mason's sand.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Hmm, I don't remember it being bad or anything. Prefer having it premixed so I don't have extra bags of cement or sand laying around. I don't do mud beds often.
I've always used 4:1:1.
Hi there. This might be an amateur question but why do you add lime to your plaster mix and not your screed mix?
1:59
It’s for making the mortar more smooth and pliable. (Laying tiles and/or brick etc)
Adding lime also increases the volume but not it’s *strength* -
Lime provides high water retention so the mix won’t dry out or cure as fast
So what is the ratio of the deck mud???
I'm building a solid rock house or stone Hut solid Rock is there any way to make the mortar even stronger how do you make it stronger more Cement more lime just cement just mortar I mean what is your ideas really just solid rocks all shapes can it be one ply it's really harder than you may think not sure if you've treid
kick ass
Ancient Romans used lime mortar, just lime and and sand. Not clear on the ratio, but if memory serves me, it was 3 parts sand to 1 part lime.
you said 4 to 1 mix for deck mud is to rich,; what ratio do you use?
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb I did; He said 4 to one is too rich and bagged deck mud is 4 to one but only said not to mix too much water he didn't suggest a different ratio.
@@588158 he said 5 to 1 is best
8:04 Deck mud.
'' The Mud Guy " / " Mud Man " EXPERT
Fiberglass, you forgot fiberglass. Yes, I use fiberglass in my dry pack.
In South Africa we use fibre reinforced filler for repairing large cracks in walls, especially structural cracks. That stuff is stronger than the bricks holding the building together, I swear!
Fiberglass should be unnecessary - mud decks should not experience any flexing - should be pure compressive loads. Adding fiberglass to 'fix' a flex problem is a bandaid, not the cure.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Standard building code permits 1/360th the span of deflection. Besides, in the case of deck mud the primary function of the fiberglass is to work against the degradation caused by years of thermal variance, which in a shower can be extreme.
If you went to school do something with your life. Construction will break you and throw you away like trash. If you want it go get it but you need schooling no matter what you do or how hard you work you still need certs. Be sure to be employed by somebody that will offer you benefits and a helping hand in times of need, you will need vacations and time off for not if but when you get hurt. Just some advise
Now he tells us LOL
Can you post a link to the bag mud product you use now, and the supplier you get it from? I want to try to get it here in Portland Oregon but don't know the product name or the company that makes it.
I need help to be a better tile guy. Can you help me?
Keep watching ALL His videos.I was a good tile guy for 20 years and His videos taught me to be a Fucking GREAT Tile installer. I learn something EVERY video,We all tweak to our certain preferences ,combine some new wt old techniques to come up wt the Best ways for you.Dont cut corners.Many tile guys are Hacks.Take pride in a perfect job consistent Great work and ethics.I only believe there are 5 tile guys better than me.My teacher,my co worker ,Isaac and 2 others I'm sure I never met.
Need fine sand !
No, absolutely not! Coarse, well-graded sands are best for floating (and most all mortars)
Add baking soda 😁
Pro tip: When using lime in your mortar mix, use gloves. Very caustic.
Why is it called deck mud?
I always thought it was because you would only use it on the deck. Never walls.
your edits would be cleaner without the fade. just a cut.