The Hidden Neuroticism Driving Covert Narcissism
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2023
- Covert narcissists are defined by the need to hide who they really are as they project an image of seeming normalcy. But Dr. Les Carter pulls back the veil to show their many hidden strains and tensions. At first you may not see it, but over time, it becomes increasingly obvious.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. For 40+ years he maintained a counseling practice in Dallas, conducting more than 65,000 therapy sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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Covert narcissist are chaotic inside giving the appearance of calm,on the other hand your genuine calmness is bothering them, therefore all their effort is to get you chaotic.
YES
Exactly. Its draining. ❤️🩹 Being zen disturbs their spirits. 👻 They can only tolerate our calmness so long. Then they come at us harder.
Fred, thanks your comments or very much so much truth, just like my Doctor, your caring heart, and our Doctor, i love his dog gus, thanks for talking to gus, you said my buddy gus, my community needs peace, and you folks put humanity, in my heart, just think of the good humans, that will come after some of all, the kids, the world is going to be, more ok, in the heart, we have our Doctor, our Gus, and those folks from another country Bam, Fred your a strength for me
Totally! I was a naturally calm person and had a covert narcissist who could tell when I was particularly content - and would then find something I was doing wrong. Somebody was not happy, and I was told that I was to blame. I would scramble to make things right. Reestablishing my calm is a challenge I am taking on.
Indeed. For the longest time, I couldn't understand why all my mother's questions were negative, almost as if hoping I had had a bad day or some discomfort. Now I get it, and I can reply "all good" without feeling guilty for some reason.
I want Gus to be my therapist. He seems like a good listener.
Gus has heard every story in the book.
🙂
They need everything to work as they command it and want to control everything and everyone as otherwise they would feel too much of the chaotic emptiness they carry inside. That's why they guilt shame you when you don't comply because how dare you to be a healthy, stable being with fulfillment and happiness in your life.
Yes! 🎯 They dominate the house and devalue others to get their way. There is an uproar daily because there is always something they don’t particularly like.
Not only are their expectations totally unrealistic, when they do go wrong as they inevitably do, they will find someone to blame and by "someone" I mean anyone but them.
And covert narcissist want to transfer that to others so they don't feel out of place
Thank you for assuring me that i am sane after all these years of being brainwashed by a sociopathic narcissist.
I don't want to sound overly dramatic here, but Dr. Carter, you have saved my life. You should know that. And thank you.
Same❤
Any of us who have survived (or are surviving) a narcissist know that information and validation ARE LIFE SAVING. ❤ It's not being overdramatic to say that. Heck, it is not even dramatic. It's just the truth. 🌱
Ditto
Same❤
The truth isn’t dramatic, it’s just true! I feel the same way about Dr C, and also Dr Ramani. They’ve saved my life too.
I find it truly mind boggling how another adult (a narcissist) can feel they have the right & power to tell another adult what to do, how to think & how to live their life. Only to benefit themselves. Truly an out of touch take on human existence.
It is merely a toddler’s existence... in an adult body. Going scorched-earth is always an option for these people, under even the slightest of circumstances.... Be well, my friend!
@michaelgpartridge2384 funny you say that she said she will "go scorched Earth" during our divorce haha. You be well also. Take care.
This is why they hide their true nature at first. At first they observe their target carefully and act in ways they think it wants them too. Once inside the trust barrier they find the persons biggest fears or weaknesses in order to use them to control the target. Now they have the power and you have them the right when you so foolishly trusted them at the start. These folks are predators and they choose their targets carefully. They all believe deep down that if someone is stupid enough to let them inside their heart then they deserve what comes next. This is why I have a lot of trouble meeting a new mate or in making new friends. Once you see the signs enough and trust your ability to recognize them, narcs will tip their hands in the first few encounters. If not in the first few minutes of a conversation.
The most bothersome aspect is how they can “stew in their own juices” over something that is so minuscule the rest of us don’t think a thing about it. And it’s not something a day or a week ago that happened but decades ago. My narcissistic mother is still mired in anger over who did her wrong in 1952. Anyone who has “done her wrong” is constantly asked by her “if they are ready to apologize for the terrible things they have done to her.” I went no contact with her several years ago after her irrational behavior started getting downright scary. I’m sure she’s moved on to other victims. Okay by me.
Yup, narcs hold grudges like nobody else’s business. They love feeling angry and being the victim. It helps them dodge all kinds of accountability. They are too fragile to own up to anything. Much like a child. It’s literally a matter of survival for them. Part of the narcissistic condition is that a threat to the ego is a direct threat to their survival. So their brain literally blocks them from accountability or anything at all that points to their flaws. They need to be seen as perfect. For them they’d rather die than be imperfect and inferior.
What's awful is years after you leave them, they secretly sabotage your interest in other friends or potential boyfriends so you look bad😢
I grew up with a covert mother who used me as her primary supply source. It is an impossible position for a child.
The pain, the pain, the suffering, the binds. Been there. And still going. Mother 85 this year and I only recently tried goiNg no contact. Conveniently my siblings who have control of her now are also narcs, one of them is after the whole inheritance and will try to exclude me because he will claim I am ‘crazy’ and not nice for going no contact.
Same😢
Yes
At least you saw through it. My husband's mother was thoroughly brainwashed by their covert controlling neurotic mother. He's now 60 & she never allowed him to have a life of his own, playing her ace card by making him buy the house they were living in so he couldn't leave & get a place of his own. He stayed with her until the day she died because she couldn't him go, & still lives in that same house - alone.
@@beadingbelle3486 that's profoundly sad. God bless him. 😪❤️🩹
Isn't there pretty much a playbook they go by ?? They all seem to be so shame based to me . Shame can manifest in so many dangerous ways . It's rather sad really . 😢
texaspatty458 , you are so right !
I never thought of the extreme envy and insane need to control and manipulate everyone, the lifelong grudges and punishing of "enemies" as neurotic behaviour, but that makes so much sense!
I suspected it was neurotic (bc of lengths gone to for control and chaos) but this is the first video I’ve seen that mentions it.
Doesn't it, though? The high need to punish you to the extreme is mind-blowing.
@@mday3821 yes, I see it now. And yes, the punishment never ends even when the narc dies because the flying monkeys keep it up. You always deserve more punishment and degradation in any way possible. It's a cult-like mission in honour of the gang leader. Detaching emotionally and establishing personal boundaries is key to recovery.
May we all stay rational and not be sucked into their madness.
There is something very soothing about watching Gus sleeping behind you. Thank you, Dr C! 🫶
If Gus is not already in my study when I am about to shoot a video, I call him and he assumes his position. I swear, it's as if he knows that's what he needs to do.
I always thought you probably went for a walk first and now it's nap time.
Someone else thought the same thing as me lol ❤
Remote therapy dog@@SurvivingNarcissism
“To be absent from drama is to be present in peace.” Don’t remember where I read this but it is a mantra I say to myself when I have to be around narcissists. Thank you, Dr. Carter, for this very insightful and helpful lecture.
Good quote!
That's a real good quote & mantra 👏
Inner peace brings so much joy in every hour of the day.❤
My narc says this after causing the drama. His mother dismisses his behaviour and reminds him that his peace lies in calm.. twisted.
It took 3yrs of me standing my ground.. not bending to my Narcissist husbands whims..Expressing myself. Not letting him walk on me for him to come out and say he isn't happy and maybe separating..I said you want a Divorce? At first my ego was hurt but then I remembered this was my plan.. Amazed by mtself, someone he thinks is so dumb actully achieved this long plan for him to want a Divorce or it will never happen.. I tried 2x with him knowing 3x total. It had to be his idea... If you can't get out and your Narcissist isn't beating on you.. Do what I did.. LET HIM THINK, IT WAS HIS IDEA and you will be set free
Hey..!! Thankyou this is brilliant 👏
Oh dear. I am very neurotic myself. I have a lot of emotions gurgling inside me. I try to manage as best I can.
At least you are self-aware!! 👏
I think if you've been dealing with a narcissist, your nerves are shot and you're probably very stressed. Who wouldn't be?
It's all about me"
My (NOW-EX!) home care client once actually said... "Yes, but I'M important!" I replied, "Everyone's important." He had NO response to that.
You don't let them control your mood, you don't succumb to their agenda, you don't allow them to turn you into their doormat, you don't try to fix another adult, you are honest with them. They tell you "I am not happy with you, you don't tend to my needs and I deserve better than you", and they monkey branch to someone new.
Ok. Perhaps the neuroticism was so well hidden I didn't even recognize it. Then again, I didn't even know what to look for. That's a big reason why I'm here. Thx, Dr. C.
How I wish what I'm learning here I'd known 50 YEARS ago.
Should be taught in school
Exactly correct, you didn't know what to look for, and now you're learning. That statement shows you're doing a super duper job on your healing journey! 👍
My brother is married to a covert narcissist. She is classic and nearly has him completely isolated. It’s hard going. I love my brother and hate to lose him.
I would imagine your bother knows deep down that you love him and don't want to lose him. Nearly always, a person in an abusive relationship with a narcissist will eventually start figuring out something isn't right. As long as he knows you're there for him, you will be someone he comes to when his time comes. I bet you are the best sister in the whole world!
Same w my son...my mother got to him. I will wait for him forever ❤
I was born to one of these monstrous things...a covert narcissist.
As always, an enlightening session. Thank you Dr C.! When you are unknowingly with the covert, their neuroticism makes you neurotic!!!. So glad to know what happened to me and what I was, and I am still, dealing with. Peace to all.
Knowledge is power!
@@SurvivingNarcissism You and Dr Ramani have both been invaluable for me in understanding a certain person in my life, I found your mentions of self absorption and not liking to be told 'no', and the more hidden or 'off label' signs especially helpful. Many thanks to you (both). 🙂
I know its it Incredible to get that missing piece to understand your life!
So true, their neuroticism plus punitive ways and lack of loving as parents makes the children neurotic or narcissistic or rather purely crushed neurotics who are confused neurotic narcissistic. My whole fam is like that going back through gens. They're either anxious and suffering or they turn out narcissistic. The narcissistic individuals can then look like the strong ones because they've passed on all their dysfunction to someone else! Then they'll claim it's the other people who are crazy. Abuse runs through the gens both physical and psychological and you can guess who the abusers are!
I can't believe I fell for it. It was drip, drip , drip over several months before I started to realize something wasn't right.
If they came in all at once and announced their real intentions, Dr Carter wouldn't need to have a channel. The insidious nature of narcissists is why we're all susceptible to them. ❤😮
Correct, it's the textbook version of "desensitization". Like the analogy of the frog in a pot of water that is slowly heated. Whether in a narcissistic relationship, in group settings, or even when managing a country, the way to get people to think "toxic" is "normal" is to (as you said) drip, drip, drip the toxicity until they object, then back off and wait for them to cool down. After a long time, the target has gone so far backwards that they didn't even notice they were drowning in a cesspool of toxicity. And by then, it's a challenge to get back to where they started.
Not everyone needs a nars diagnosis, we each have our own self centeredness, these videos to help me with do a self check and work on relating to others the way I would like to be treated. Thank you Dr. Carter
There is a spectrum, as in many things. These videos are helpful to the “normal” person as well, as you mentioned, to help make sure we are all treating each other with dignity, civility, and respect.
I agree! Even though I am going through some hard time with my partner. I am learning not only to stay focus in caring for me but also learning to manage the relationship. Learning not to let it affect me and change me. I pray that God covers my heart. Eyes and mouth through this process.
I have CPTSD. When I'm in dysregulated phases I am neurotic. I'm embarrassed by it. Most of my life I had no idea what dysregulation was or what was exactly happening lol. Everyone said I was bipolar. I knew that wasn't true ... I'm incredibly self centered in dysregulated phases if I don't recognize and meditate out of it reaching the threshold where it takes over my nervous system it will just take over. My mom beat me for a long time and tried to kill me and my dad abandoned me for a lover, so I have a lot of triggers lol. Anyway, I'm over the past emotionally but my nervous system is mapped to the past. I lost everything in my life recently so I'm starting over and I'm going to learn to calm this in my new life so I don't ruin it and I can be a healthy community member somewhere awesome.
I'm only discovering recently all the narcs that have been in my life over the years. Before, I didn't understand what was happening. I thought it was what it wasn't.
That's one thing about my stbx.... he LOVED self reflection. But it always ended up with him justifying his actions further and cracing down harder.
Od course, great! 👍
Always let the narcissist see you happy and laughing that will really get them mad
Wrong move, in my opinion. I always was, it made him vw to work harder to do crazy things to make me sad,confued, fearful etc. Many damned if you do or dont no win situations.
Sometimes the addictions of narcissists are family members who elevate them. They never seem to make new friends, they keep old ones from years ago but spend so little time with them that they never find out the real character of the narcissists. As soon as the narcissist sees that you are no longer elevating them they start conflict or they leave to avoid the confidence of the ones who found them out.
Thank you, "knowledge is power". You have taught me so much, not only about NPD, but about me too. The cumulative affect of continuous watching and learning has made me a calmer, stronger person more able to deal with whats in front of me.
That's where you've won! You've made yourself the center of your universe, & allowed the narcissist to be at most a small satellite rather than the dominating force. Kudos to you!
Another wonderfully validating video. I walked away from my covert narc 2 and a half years ago, I’m now trying to deal with the aftermath, which is the difficulty in forgiving myself for not running away sooner.
I kick myself daily for allowing this mistreatment which seems so bloody obvious now. This is the final hurdle in really healing.
Same here. Same here.
Try waiting 40 years before walking away from my narc family ( both parents , both siblings to varying degrees and colourings, from covert to sadistic and back via moaning, and victimdisplays). I am 59 now and didn’t cotton on to it earlier. Went supernova on them and now an awful lot of kicking going on of myself. Having said that after 4 months of no contact feel a lot better already although it was hell in the early days of aftermath. They of course will claim they were ‘first’ to ghost me because I am ‘ crazy’
getting there is what matters. 2 years is very little time wasted. call it lesson learned and move on.
@@marian9410 I didnt know there were labels for what they are until i was 48. afterwards, I kept getting stuck on the pain and anger of how they knew they were lying and they knew they were hurting me - and they kept on doing it. and that it was all of them - not just one. and still try even today to flip the blame onto me for anything they can. they would run out in front of a runaway train before admitting how bad or wrong they are. its pitiful. truly.
@skinnyway Similar story here, in my late 40s and just relieved to realize that this is actually a thing in the world, sadly, but at least I can stop feeling frustrated at the bad behavior of others and walk away without wondering what more I could do about it. ❤
Please advertise your Recignizing Narcissists book more. People need the information! ❤❤❤
And, they won't seek professional help. Or, if they do, it's just enough to learn more about manipulating, charming or controlling. My Mother and husband and another friend/family member - it's almost driven me off the cliff. No more!! 🎉❤😊
Well said!
Give just enough to seem like they're participating, while leaving out the self incriminating parts, then using their new knowledge to become that much more awful. Pointless exercise to try, just sets you back that much further in your own progress. ❤
This goes right along with one of my narcs favorite sayings
"You know we could be really happy together if you'd stop getting mad at me"
My narc hasn't said this, but feels very familiar.
Apparently, I am the one with the control issue when I am begging her to stop doing something that damages my trust in her, hurts my feelings and makes me feel unimportant.
Her response is to become outraged that I am upset with her and denounce me as controlling and emotionally manipulative by sharing my feelings and asking her to stop.
As though the source of the problem is my hurt feelings and not what she did to hurt them.
I hate it so much, it makes me feel utterly worthless. Like it would be better if I wasn't in the way.
She is my mother.
She was having a complete meltdown the other day, and I grabbed her wrist (gently, I closed my hand around her wrist) because I wanted to turn her toward me so I could give her a hug.
She completely flipped out like I was attacking her.
That's how she sees me. In her eyes, I'm not really there, just a reflection of her own vicious insanity.
But I feel like I'm the only one who sees it, and that makes me feel crazy.
It's tough coming to the realisation that your inner turmoil, a lifetime of it, has a name. Be it a father or a mother's name😩........... as the man says, 'knowledge is power'✌️
Totally agree with you and it's hard to shake off
Sure needed this message ....
My narcissistic sister-in-law is a real piece of work, she's completely neurotic and last night my husband and I got a big dose of her narcissistic nonsense. For the past 2 months she has been blocked on my husband's phone. So hubby called her last night because she called our son for *help* in getting her unblocked. My husband explained that our son can't *help* her and that she was out of line calling him for help in the first place, but she didn't want to hear that she was wrong for doing that. Plus, my husband let her know what it would take for her to get unblocked, but she's refusing to do what he's asking of her. She is incredibly entitled and controlling; and she doesn't see that she is the problem and keeps playing the victim with all of her blame shifting. And her drinking problem doesn't help matters either. When she's drinking it's like an episode of the twilight zone. So we aren't going to play her games and reward her terrible behavior by unblocking her. She needs to grow up and treat both of us with respect, so the ball is in her court. And we aren't going to sit around wringing our hands waiting for her to change, instead we are going to move ahead and enjoy a more peaceful life :)
Quotes of the Sociopath I was dealing with about his pretending normalcy, mostly with tension in his voice, defending his own facade,
"I am totally normal, just like everybody else!"
"I am doing all the normal things. I am normal!"
On the other hand he told me from time to time quite the opposite, like, "I am mad." "I love chaos." "I cannot live without chaos."
Your brain gets messed up with opposite statements and is searching for a conclusion, for the truth because nothing seems to fit together.
This is a big one! 🎯❤️
Narcissist in general like to throw out m a law abiding good citizen! They really have this need Too constantly reassure the World that they are a good person cause they are doing the Keepin up with the Jones game.
This tells me you have been through the ringer. The saving part is you have taken positive action to heal and get past it. From our other exchanges, you have shown your metal. Much respect.
@@tbunnyshy1 ❤
@@cherobinson6371 Yes, they need constantly reassurance from the world because at their core they are deeply insecure👍
My neurotic 97 year old narcassist mom has made me neurotic. Totally serious. 😢❤
97, not long now to go. Congratulations the end will come.
@@kristinafarrugia3812 thank you for this Kristin. I think she is going to be the first person to defeat mortality. I see no end in sight. 😩😬
"I hope you find your peace and tranquility".
Thank you,Doc👍 This information was like the final piece of the puzzle and I'm very grateful for the added clarity. It was only a year ago that I was forced to understand what narcissism and NPD really means,especially all the different types of NPD's--it can be overwhelming trying to differentiate between them all.This neurotic version is the generational narcissism I find myself surrounded by,although there is an added layer of schizoidal detachment/isolation. I can't afford therapy,so grateful to have found your channel. Salute!
I pray you find peace, my friend. You have been through hell. Many blessings to you.
I hate sounding like a dummy, but I'm not sure if my ex narc was neurotic. To me he seemed psychotic. He scared me a little there at the end. The things he said were so off the wall. I still haven't quite calmed down from it all.
8:32 Crucial point. Getting rid of that feeling of 'if only I could explain myself clearly...' has helped a lot.
The clearer you are, the worst, because then they know exactly how to trigger you, whereas before they were making an educated guess. The way I got rid of it was basically: 'hmm... why would I need to be understood? that's kinda narcissistic'. Obviously that's a bad thought to apply with healthy people, but it helped me a lot.
Oh, I tried so many times to just explain myself better... It was just going in circles.
I couldn't take it anymore and accepted there's never gonna be understanding. 😢
They change in an instant depending on who is around! I know I have been married to one for decades.
They Only Act Narcissistically Towards People Or Environments That They Perceive Will Have No Physical Repercussions.
I wish I'd ventured into this CZcams world far sooner! The life changing information I've gotten has been 🤯🤯🤯 & invaluable.Though at the same time it makes me 😭thinking of what could have, should of been & the time lost with those who now have departed! Thats the hardest part in all this knowing now those in your life that vile, evil, vindictive POS narcessist kept me away from for so many yrs I can never get back. Though grateful for my eyes being opened before it was to late!
You are awesome Dr. Carter. Always a pleasure to watch your videos and learn something new about narcissism, my life has been deeply affected by a narc and I'm currently no contact with them.
You are very welcome
@@SurvivingNarcissism Hello. I’m dealing currently with a covert narcissist daughter-in-law who is sucking all the energy out of my son and convincing him to break off ties with me and now I’m never allowed to see my grandson again. She has convinced my son that I hate her and she has commanded her own family to break off with me too. It’s truly as if my son has married into a one-woman cult. Your lectures have been ever so helpful and clarifying to me. My confusion about the whole situation has now dissipated and my eyes are wide open. Many thanks, sir
@@psalm1197 It seems since I have been listening to Dr. C darkness has been revealed for what it is. My reaction is different. No longer confused. I am sad and pray it won't always be this way. The division hurts. I will pray breakthrough for your Son and family. I am familiar with the DIL situation as well. I don't put any added pressure on my Son. Prayers for resolve for your Son and family.
Too true. And I've having some breakthroughs. Instead of paying alimony he bought an old property in France. But he died. Now his new wife supply has it all. Had a great chat w an old friend who my ex tried to suck in long ago. We know what a racket foreigners get into in France. I am so glad i never went along. My friend helped me feel validated. What a will my ex had! As usual thank you Dr. C!
Oh my, yes. If you could bottle and sell Gus's chill, you'd be super rich, and the world would be a much better place! Thanks Dr C.
Pets are wonderful. The kitty cat in my avatar told me, so it must be true. 😺👍
@@danielkaiser8971 Agreed!
I thoroughly agree. I'd love some.
Gus would enjoy the attention. And Doc could take his next Vacation even further afield.
I had never thought about any of this while my wife and I were having problems, but the more I watch and learn, the more clearly I see that it really is she that has the problem, not me like she always said. Sadly she has never acknowledged this and will never try to get help. I loved my wife and it breaks my heart that everything went down like it did.
Same w my ex husband 😮
O.M.G! The very best description of my world with my mother. Every.single.example. She passed away but the effects live on. Understanding what the heck happened really helps. Your sweet puppy is such a terrific comfort to me as you talk.
I have a narc mother, & a narc neighbor. ..they used to get under my skin. Now when they pull something. ..I can usually remain calm. I've got their #, & I expect their narc games. & I refer to that old saying..."Jimmy Crack corn, & I don't
care !" I help my neighbor cause she's old, & can't drive...but she is ungrateful, controling, & cantankerous if you don't allow her to pull your strings like some overbearing puppet master..."Jimmy Crack corn, & I don't care !" Works on my mother too !! I used to care, couldn't figure out her head games, & would be driven to the edge after any encounter....Now...I don't care, gone gray rock, stopped feeling any obligation, guilt, or need to try to have a relationship !! She has completely sabotaged all my relatives views of me...I should hate her...but I feel only pity...for her, & all those who have fallen for her lies...she, & her brainwashed minions are missing out on a loyal, loving empath...who has decided to salvage her own life... Yeah me...I'm a survivor !!
Big babies, uniquely averse to introspection because you know they're "uniquely damaged" in the most special way 🙄
Wow! 😂
Thanks Dr. C. I'm in recovery mode and staying sharp, aware and up to date through your videos. Empowered and embracing life. The wounds from the past aren't as tender as they were and I screen, test and stay proactive in new contacts. But some days the pain and memories show up. I accept them. But I don't stay stuck. Encountering the narc was a brutal metaphorical punch in the face but I shall overcome.
It's a process, so stay steady!
The best! Spread the word folks on our awesome Dr. Les Carter! He is talented and guided by God. All glory to God.
Thank you
Empathising with the pain caused by the neuroticism did such a number on me, and still does after quite some time has passed. I´ve done the work though since, and I understand the futility of them coming to terms with their ailments. Were it up to me, they shouldn´t have to suffer so much. But it´s not, it´s entirely up to them and therefore their suffering will continue, as they are unable to grasp this connection. So sad.
The failed efforts to care for and heal these people can easily destroy a person... I pray for your recovery and return to well being and true happiness!
You know what I am so empathetic, I became unstable for having these people in my life, mimicking their nonsense. Both parents both siblings narcs. Went no contact 4 months ago aged 59. Wish I had done it earlier. Healing is going to be long…
@@marian9410Better late than never. I highly recommend finding a therapist to guide you through it.
Mine had dietary eccentrics. Pasta with sauce on the side and bone in pig knuckles in sauerkraut. I always felt for my mother when they appeared at the table.
Mine did too. I hate disclosing some of it because it's so weird. He lost all of his teeth (just wouldn't brush), and wanted me to chop up his salad in the food processor. He has false teeth, but wouldn't wear them. You wouldn't want to eat that salad.
@@Hatbox948 it didn't stop there. In the end he had criticism left to knock down the all you can eat Chinese buffet with a hibachi grill with "My meal is always too cold."
I told him well if you're that damn fickle...Go at 3:30 when they bring out the hot dinner menu. He didn't like that.
@@Spectre8282 Oh wow. Lol!
The many flavours of narcissism.
I keep learning more and more. I am continually resisting the urge to feel sorry for them. At the same time your voice resonates in my head as I turn and walk away.
I can relate. Whenever things settled down, trivial problems would start again.
She often makes small issues into big problems and sabotages herself. She's improved over the years but still struggles. When she feels unwell, she suddenly decides everything must be done and tries to make others feel guilty for not helping. She often brings up old grudges when I'm trying to relax.
(I had to take out certain specific words, and tone down the language quite a bit to bypass any autofilters so it would let me actually post).
Me: "You okay? You seem unhappy, do you want to talk about it?"
Her: "Really?? You don't know what's wrong?"
Me: "I honestly have no idea, but I wish I did so we can fix it."
Her: "Yeah right! As if you don't know."
Me: "I don't know why you're acting this way, please stop."
(20 minutes later...)
Her: "Ok fine, do you really want to know?"
Me: "Yes, please tell me."
Her: "Remember last week when you told me to close the garbage lid?"
Me: "Sorry if me asking you bothered you, why are you this upset about it? Is there something else?"
Her: "You know exactly what you did (I had no idea), you looked at me like I was stupid and called me names!" (I had said nothing of the sort).
Me: "Are you serious right now?" (an honest question).
She can't hide it anymore. She's aging, and her old tricks don't work. I revealed that I've been recording her outbursts and have backups in case anything happens to me. Things weren't always this way, but the relationship had moments of insanity. She does fine mentally as long as I don't call her out.
She has severe inattentive ADHD and possibly NVLD. She was also bullied and had some delusions over the years (thinking she is the reincarnation of a character from GOT, believing a historical re-enactment at a historical site was real, etc) and some more serious ones I will leave out here, due to brief stints with medication-induced issues.
A year into our relationship, we were playing hide and seek. I found her standing in a corner with her eyes closed. She seriously thought that if her eyes were closed, I couldn't see her.
I'm high-functioning ASD (dx'd in adulthood a little over a year ago) and didn't know what to make of this, but it showed something wasn't right with her processing. I feel sorry for her again. She has a brain problem and fell through the cracks.
I care about her but hate what we've been through. It hurts. I've tried to get help, but the post-pandemic mental health system is more terrible and expensive than its ever been in modern times.
It's hard to hate someone obviously damaged. Both her mother and grandmother have similar issues. She also had a head injury as a toddler. She fell 15 feet from a balcony because her Mother wasn't watching her, and she hit her head - though the doctors said she was fine I believe that may be part of the issue.
I wasn't perfect either, having BPD. The biggest issue is that I've always tried to improve and empathize with people, while she seems more concerned with appearances.
I stayed because we had children, and I didn't want to repeat my parents' divorce. Our kids are now at an age where they can think for themselves. They do well in school and are loving and empathetic. I also stayed because I had a severe fear of abandonment.
I'm a little immature. I still collect stuffed animals and prefer video games, but I can admit mistakes and value self-improvement. She is a child inside and lacks proper self-reflection. I wish I had seen the red flags earlier. But I wouldn't change having my wonderful children. Maybe in the future, technology can help her.
The world needs to realize that mental health education should start early. Many people have undiagnosed issues that lead to maladaptive behaviors.
After 17 years, I'm still here. She's calmed down a lot and admits she's a narcissist, with some caveats. She still has issues but has improved.
She tries to do the right thing, but her efforts are overshadowed by her psychological issues. Her lack of empathy and desire to look good have caused a lot of damage. She has betrayed friends, lied, and gaslit others. But I've had those issues too, so I understand why she does it and appreciate that she's trying.
Sometimes I can't tell if she's really trying or pretending. I feel sorry for her, but I know I can't fix her - she has to want that for herself.
Thanks for letting me vent. I wish you all the best.
---
I had to hear this twice.. take notes.. and I am learning. Thank you Dr. I am a giver have been all my life.
I thought he needed a lot and I gave but when he wanted to keep me away from my family and he also started telling me what I should do. That he knows best. I noticed I am loosing me.
I started to show signs of neuroticism and anxiety because I wasn’t myself anymore with these people ( both parents both siblings narcs) and I am 50 and only gone no contact 4 months ago. What a waste of life energy. I have got so many health problems because these vampires sucked me dry and are STILL thinking I am the crazy one
I love you all. Please know that even though you can't fix them, they are indeed damaged individuals and not 'evil' as some people would suggest.
Im still healing but I feel like I AM in more control of my responses to the never ending barrage of verbal abuse. Tjank you for sharing your knowledge!!
Yep same here. I went supernova and honestly I know I am supposed to be the ‘better’ person and ‘in control’ of myself but who says you can’t have righteous anger and point out their flaws after being subjected to decades of humiliation? After that blow up though I have gone no contact. Avoids all the rubbish coming my way
Thank you for helping me understand what is behind narcissistic behaviour. It has helped me be more patient but also empowered me to believe in myself again. Living with a narcissist is painful. Understanding this is who they are is so helpful in dealing with their projecting their own pain and insecurity onto others. Thank you
Oh, Dr. C., I wanted to reach through my phone screen and give you (and Gus) a big hug for this video! I was just dealing with this today and knowing not to 'feed' it and not 'react' really does save your sanity, and you don't get caught up in all their chaos. I needed to hear this reinforcement right now so badly, and I felt you were talking directly to me. I feel that you always ground me back to calmness in seeking a life of... peace, Dr. C.🙏💝
You are so kind, Lynda.
@@SurvivingNarcissism 💝
I lasted 16 years of this. The final ramping-up and discard was pure guerilla warfare, my life was turned into a total terror storm of financial and emotional horror. The raw criminality of these people is overwhelming... I struggle to fathom the karmic repercussions this person will surely endure... but I will not be around to see it, thank f****** god.
I was accused of being so abusive that she feared for her life. She slandered me with friends and family, said she was getting a restraining order against me. This was in a time where I had for the first time successfully walked away and blocked her. Went no contact. She showed up at my house uninvited (I didn't even open the gate). She sent me emails (I didn't answer). She left me a note, sent me photos of us, etc. I didn't react. Yet somehow I was accused of harassment and abuse 🤷♂️ These people are, to put it bluntly, crazy.
Good to see you are now safe. My sister is a CN. She was violent and abusive until she got engaged at 22. I was 19. My grandiose narc very violent father enabled and her joined in of her violence abuse of me. Until I learnt to avoid both of them at 12 yrs old. From then on it happened when I got caught out unaware she was preying on me when I simply would go to the kitchen to get some water or go to the toilet. I couldn’t be in the same room unless she was fully supervised by a responsible adult- our mother. Fast forward 30 plus years she’d been wearing a mask being nice and ‘sisterly’ though she wasn’t that good at it either but I thought she had grown a brain and changed. Silly me. As soon as Mum died what’s she’s been holding in the past 30 years came out in drips. But grieving for my beloved Mum I didn’t realize it at first. When I told a cousin about the abuse mum suffered at the hands of my disgusting abusive father as she was dying, and after my sister swore at me and told me to ‘grow up and get over it’, (it being witnessing the vile repeated verbal abuse and cruelty of a cancer ridden elderly woman whom you love), then it started to click. Her “you are dead to me’ offense- to me, was when she prevented me from being able to attend the spreading of my dead mothers ashes 11 months later. Saying “you’ve made everyone’s life a misery” that I was not welcome to attend and be part of the family ;though one of my brothers firmly disagreed with this and knows why I’ll never speak to my sister again, and finished off yelling at ne over the phone “it’s your fault Mum suffered as she was dying and it’s your fault Dad treats you the way he does”. My husband heard that last part. He said something about her I will forever abide by. . I’ll only have relief when she is finally no longer stealing oxygen from this planet.
Dr Carter , you are Brilliant!! Described them to a T! Thanks for helping us know how to deal with them , by the way, your advice works!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for these points to work from, Dr. C. Very helpful & positive re-focusing. Gus is a calming balm too!
Pleased!
I knew I made the right decision in backing away from a "situationship" recently when he was describing his ideal world, in which he would have minions. Lol!
Ive noticed the "Masochistic" side of them too...can you discuss this Dr C.?
Narcissists do whatever works to continue getting narcissistic supply from those closest to them. If that involves masochism, then that's what they will do. But it's also fair to say that narcissism is almost never the "only" issue going on, there are likely other psychological problems going on at the same time (like depression) that are not specific to narcissism. So it could also be that masochism is one of those "comorbid" problems in the case of the narcissist you're talking about.
Dr Les this is one of your best videos God is using you to help me so much
I deal with covert soon to be ex, covert and over adult son and his covert wife It’s been so stressful to say the least in dealing with them Your video answered my prayer Its been hard to wrap my mind around their toxic behavior Thank you for helping me understanding them better Wow! I’ve listened to the beginning several times I’m still trying to get to the end I keep hitting rewind May God of the Bible continue to bless you your work and family ❤
I hope for your healing, my friend. It is a battle for survival and the odds are tremendous and horrible... Godspeed and god bless!
Can I just say you sir are a breath of fresh air. During your videos I practice my breathing techniques and by the end I feel so much better. So thank you so much for what you’re doing for people like me. I know no one is coming to save me and I have to save myself if I want freedom, but to help me think clearly through the fogginess of my mind is truly more help than a million dollars would be. I’m still in this terrible situation but I gave my pain to the Lord and He took my ability to have emotions towards my covert narc away and you are helping me sort out and respond to his nonsense in ways I didn’t know how before. I think before I act with everything and you know what my husband says? He says “there’s something wrong with you”! Lol oh yes there is and he doesn’t like it one bit. He said if I don’t pretend to care about him like a wife should then I have to pay rent! Lol, we live in his parents old house so he doesn’t even pay rent! Lol.
Thank you so much for everything you do for us.
Keep leaning forward. You are why I do the videos.
Sounds familiar. She is getting more and more manic. My 5 year old informed me she damaged my plants and is purposely moving my things. 😢 idk what to do but feel I am inching closer to a divorce with someone who is irrational, destructive, vengeful, angry, and disrespectful. 😑
It seems to me that if someone has been dealing with a narcissist for any length of time, they would probably become very stressed and neurotic themselves.
Just spent a few vacation days with a childhood friend. She was controling, ridgid, & disaproving of felt like every thing I did past & present. I couldn't even wash a dish correctly. She even told me what my 30 yr old career entailed... diminished it & acted liked I was lying. We dont have the same career. After 1 &1/2 days I left. She mentioned she only travels now with her 2 younger sisters.. I guess she has them trained.
You can learn a lot about someone by taking a vacation with them!
I shared the same experience with an old friend. I couldn't batter a fish correctly. LOL. Nothing I stated was correct or without criticism or critique.
Later, I asked them why they were like that and what was going on. They hung up on me in the middle of my question. It's all for the best and another lesson in life. 🙏
You described my step mom in the first 3 minutes.
What to do: 8:17 "I absolutely cannot allow the Covert Narc to establish my mood".
Thank you Dr C.
Your messages always help. It's nice to share this path here.
Ciao Mr chill Gus
You are very welcome, and Gus is impressed that you speak Italian.
I wish I could play for you guys the videos of my narc neighbor who displays all of those behaviors - publicly.
Poor guy.
@@northstar5919 what guy?
I imagine those videos would show us your neighbor using severe manipulative tactics (such as rage) to get what they want.
The person who has all the characteristics.
I think of it like you have a partner who is 80% blind and you are not aware, you know she has some difficulties with her vision but no idea just how bad it is. You help her throughout life she holds your arm as you guide her upstairs and take her to places, she would not dare go. She adores you she looks up at you in ore. You feel amazing you are her savior this is love.
One day you are tired you cannot hold her arm anymore. You have kids now and a lot of commitments, surely, she can do these things on her own now. She panics she is blind she clings to her sister, a friend anyone who can guide her. You are devastated, all the years of love you have given her and she is only worried about her needs today and tomorrow. She is devastated, how could he leave a blind helpless person. She falls down stairs you once helped her with, you have betrayed her, and you will pay…………..
If she had only told me she was blind………………….
I like your analogy about the blindness👍
She doesn't know she is blind... 😢
They feel your existence is "solely" for them !!!
I like "knowledge is power". I wish I was guided by professional knowledge years ago but today is a new day and I am willing to learn how to pull back, react less and stop my head from spinning by being duped.
Thank you for your videos. They really help me find some answers and I always come back to them when I doubt myself or have a hard time accepting the reality.
You are so welcome!
Duped is the word Dr. C!! I finally took my compassion hat off, as Dr. Rhoberta S. recommends. Eventually, I found myself blurting out "I feel like the biggest fool here!" What a dumbarse - again 🤷♀️🥂🛣️
You must not criticize yourself for not using knowledge in the past that you did not yet have. You weren't a fool, you were cleverly manipulated. And I know it required a narcissist to be clever and manipulative, because you eventually figured it out and are now here learning how to heal. This is not what a fool would do. Quite the opposite.
@@danielkaiser8971
Thank you Daniel 🙏🥂🩷
Hit my day right in the head. Just went through this with them this morning/this weekend
What's really unsettling is the way abuse from a narcissist, especially growing up as a child, creates this neurotic personality. This will either create another narcissist or, can create a very emotionally aware person (if they put in the work to process it). I know that my covert narcissist stepmother turned my psyche upside down when I was 13, and escalated her abuse into my early 20s and I'm still processing it in my late 30s. I'm really looking at my own defensiveness and tendencies to have negative assumptions about other people's motives or the assumption that they're "out to get me" or will never try to understand me. Your videos are really eye opening and I love how you speak about the issue without the residual anger I see in some other videos that are available. Thank you.
You are so on point with this. Watching your videos has helped me to realize that i wasn't to 100% blame for the issues between me and my mom regardless her telling me repeatedly from the age of 7 that I was mean and difficult to talk to. The guilt and the shame of this has been heavy to carry. When I think of all the years lost thinking how difficult I was to engage with and how it drove me in many ways to pull out of life and engaging with people because I thought I was a horrible person. Don't get me wrong, I have my issues but I know why now, I get triggered when I feel that people don't understand me. But that links back to dealing with my covert/vulnerable narcissist mother not understanding me and labeling me as mean and difficult. Understanding this has released a burden in my life and your videos have played a significant role in that. Thank you!
I am literally going through that right now with my nex. Because my daughter didn't agree with him to talk about me he has cut her off from giving her child support. I'm going to definitely pick up the slack on the bill but he is being very childish. And it's breaking my daughter's heart that he is not giving her what she needs. He is in his feelings big time. Oh. And by the way he knows I do not care.😅
I thought neurotic was a very old term not used much anymore. That said, I know what it is and I am sure I am neurotic myself. Not a narcissist though. Self-esteem is way too low.
Narcissist also have low self esteem.
The casual usage of the term "neurotic" is antiquated, but it is still a relevant term in psychology as it is defined in psychology.
It's like a dust Devil passing through town.🌪
I always write down all the words to remember that you use like knowledge is power so that you know what you’re dealing with thank you Dr Carter you have taught me a lot dealing with my husband, who is terrible and definitely with the blame shifting
"Absurdly Defensive" - THANK YOU, Dr Carter! (For ALL You Do) :)
You're welcome.
Hello Dr. Carter. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. May I ask a question? I don't know if you already answered it (sorry, if that's the case) or even if you will have time to do it but just in case, I'd be grateful if you could dispell this doubt.
Do you think it is possible for some narcissists changing types? I mean, depending on who they're dealing with (manipulating), switching roles between vulnerable/covert/grandiose/malignant? I hope it's not a silly question, it's just sometimes I think I've seen them adopting different faces depending on the situation/victim.
Thank you again. Best regards.
👋 Greetings, I’m not speaking for
Dr Carter ☀️, I’m just chiming in because I’ve heard this discussed many times over different channels. The best I’ve heard it described, that I can remember…. Narcissists are chameleons.” In fact, Dr Carter ☀️ probably used those same words to describe narcissists in general. I’ll be watching for Dr Carter’s ☀️ response, just like you. ☮️
I've seen them do this. My children think their dad is a decent guy and that he's the underdog...they think he's not as angry anymore now that we are divorced....oh he's just as angry, he just isn't triggered as much because I stay off his radar. But I have to be on his radar when he picks up the children from my house, But why then if he's so different and good now, do the kids still come home irritable, hungry, disrespectful, angry and moody? Every single time? He's not changing he's just a convincing chameleon. It's so hard on their self esteem and their reality.
Narcissists use masks. They are charming with Person A, shy with Person B and very fierce with Person C. They are 10 people in 1 day.
They play a part that gets them the most benefit in each situation.
And what's worse: they make sure Person C does not believe wat Person A tells about them.
What I visualize them having is a closet full of masks to wear. Whichever type they are, they portray a character.
Yes, master multitasker. From sweet, smiley and seemingly nice to all you named.
I’m thinking about my covert narcissist elderly father and I feel so sad hearing Dr C acknowledge the deep psychological pain that the covert narcissist is in, and that I can’t make his pain go away. I can’t fix him. This has cut deep for me … and has led me to grief and compassion for me and my father. Since I was a child I wanted to fix my dad, to take away his pain. After a lifetime of this, I finally arrive at the acceptance that I cannot and never could save my father. 😢Thank you Dr C for releasing me from this immense legacy burden. 🙏🏽🕊️🕊️
Living with a lost soul (takes one to know one) I was confused at the beginning of the video. I was distracted for a moment. When you went into the description of neurosis, I wasn’t sure if you were talking about me or the person I live with. Yikes! Not that I don’t already know my own neurosis is playing the part in this that I call “my life”
The difference is I do introspect . I give others the benefit of the doubt. I spent years in church, in Al anon, in everything I could find to free myself from the perplexing relationships ( of all kinds) I kept bewilderingly finding myself in. Scared to death, trying to find a way out of the dysfunction I grew up in. Breaking the cycle of addiction and abuse.
Here I am. Wondering whether the neurosis is talking about me or the man I currently live with.
My solution to raising two beautiful daughters was to stay single. Which for the majority of this time I did. My youngest daughter is in grade 11, excelling 🥰
The first man I allowed in, known him for years ( although not intimately) turns out to meet all the criteria. 😣
I’m 52. You really have to take a hard look at yourself.
WTF is the matter? With me?
Before I heard about these maniacs, I just thought they were a$$ wholes and
they were unable to go through a day without torturing those they claim to love. Who
knew that this is a Universal Issue known to many through their torturous experiences?
I'm pretty sure that "narcissist" is simply the clinical term for "a$$hole." So, you were on the right track, there. 😂😂😂
The a$$wholes who are always that way (literally a pattern in their entire adult lifetime) and "need you around" to react to their trouble or it won't be worth their time, those are the narcissists.
😊😊😊😊 I love gussss he’s so chill 💞💞💞💫💫💫🫶🏾🫶🏾🫶🏾
6:49 "The Covert Narcissist is thinking 'it's your job to keep me satisfied', that's their attitude of entitlement".
Thank you Dr. C, hi Gus!
You are very welcome!
Thank you Dr Carter ,for this channel, you have helped me so significantly in recovering and handling , living with my narcissistic husband.
You are so welcome
100% correct on my husband narc! I sure learned so much on this channel,thankyou Dr. C!
This is the best video of all times by far! Very good explanation of the importance of good insight. A good video to share with anyone who is willing to wake up and begin their journey. 1. I absolutely cannot afford to let the neurotic covert narc establish my mood for the day (week, etc.) 2. Refuse to succumb to their Agenda.
3. They carry lots of psychological pain you can't make go away, it's not my job. 4. Stay level headed -- You are the one who carries the mature discernment. Realize where your attention/focus will be best spent. 5. Unhook from their psychological noise. 6. Find your "Inner sense of Calmness", it may take some practice. I'll figure it out, though.
So pleased it resonated!!
Is it possible for a dog raised by a narcissist to have a narcissistic personality too? My dog acts like she is the head of this household right below my husband but definitely above me. I’m not even on the scale in her eyes which is also true for my husband. I’m the help and you don’t respect the help, in this house. Once I’ve gained my freedom I don’t think I’m keeping her. She can live with her daddy cuz he’s abandoned us again for three months now and she has already killed a chicken and won’t let my German shepherd get loves from anyone.
Thank you so much! I finally understand what I have been dealing with for 14 years. This is a perfect description of my Ex-partner whom I left recently. I was always the one to blame for all the chaos. This information gives me a lot of rectification. Bless you! 🙏
Hang in there! 💪