In Defense of Ladybug
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Despite its target audience, Miraculous Ladybug has been known to tread into some very serious territory. From Sentimonster's to trauma derived from superhero secret identities, Season 4 of Miraculous Ladybug sees our primary heroine, Marinette, as she struggles to balance her personal and hero life. She's made a lot of mistakes, but instead of blindly hating on her for being a confused teenager, I wanted to analyze and explain her behavior. So without further ado, let's get into it. #MiraculousLadybug #MiraculousLadybugS4
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Introduction
2:16 - Opening AMV
3:28 - The Start of Season 4
5:28 - Gang of Secrets
9:46 - Hack-San
11:30 - Optigami
12:38 - Sentibubbler
13:38 - Chat Blanc's Butterfly Effect
14:52 - Identity Shenanigans
20:04 - Glaciator 2
23:34 - Ephemeral
25:35 - Kuro Neko
30:54 - Risk & Strikeback
37:57 - Video Recap
39:37 - Outro
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Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I personally think the Marinette hate mostly stems from the creepy stalker attitude the authors have given her, and not all that much from her choices as Ladybug.
Finally I found a comment saying that.
Undeveloped teen mind or not, its just bad writing and doesn't make me identify with her. Yes, teens don't make the smartest choice.
But like kids, they aint idiots.
@@DeepEye1994 Exactly. And kids should not be encouraged that making such choices is "cute" or "quirky" and can be overlooked so easily. Some stuff Marinette does in the show are pretty damn concerning...
@@TzoLia true these are bad examples for little girls to follow
@liliana @liliana Uhm, first of all, I think the video focuses more on her anxiety and behavior as a superhero rather than her stalker attitude. I did state that was my personal opinion. I do not like the way this so called crush is portrayed and I don't think rushing some trauma at the final seasons is good enough of a redemption. This show has just got some bad writing when it comes to Mari's crush. Her writing and decisions made as ladybug are not as bad as some other people might think, but I have never heard anyone complain about that, at least not on a big scale. Yes Mari has her reasons to make those choices, and it's mlb we're talking about, that was some decent writing. But Mari is being hated MOSTLY for her stalker attitude which is brushed off as something normal, which is not addressed in this video. Again, just my personal thoughts.
@liliana I agree it's plain weird and I was just responding to you saying this is what was being addressed in the video.
Never thought I'd see a uncomfortably realistic panic attack in this show, let alone from Marinette.
which episode?
@@sol_nov strike back, part 2 of the season 4 finale
It was so chilling.
Ofc I did. If she stresses over another girl with Adrian, she DEFINITELY was gonna break after the current season finale of season 4 lol
Juleka had one in Refleckdoll.
I was honestly impressed how this season focused more on both Marinette and Adrien and how they were going through their own inner demons. It's made them more human than before and that's an upgrade in itself
Not really too much on Adrien tbh
@@CCA2020 adrien had the whole “what is my true self, adrien or cat noir” identity crisis tho. also his self esteem issues, like with feeling unneeded and replaceable. i thought kuro neko and strike back especially did a great job with his arc
@@laneyyyyyyyyy yeah but they showed his part for like 2 episodes and marinette had the rest of the season
@@CCA2020 XD
Because marrinete is the most op character LEGITLY EXCEPT FOR THE ROOSTER ONE OPPPP!!!
if anyone should get hate it's master fu. he was basically her only support who knew her identity and didn't train/help her at all. mari has had do much stress this season and as someone w anxiety i can relate. it's not her fault she was suddenly asked to be the guardian with basically no help or training.
facts! and fu also majorly ignored adrien as well
Yeah he legit just gave the miracle box without any notice to her without any training who legit worshipped the ground Marinette walks on. IF he trained Marinette beforehand she would have done a better job.
In defense of Master Fu, he didn't see that Hawkmoth move coming, and he was captured which made handing the guardianship to Marinette the only solution. Need I remind you he didn't even have a stable home during that period? The man also had traumatic issues like him being responsible for his home being burned down so I'm sure that affected his thinking
@@oluwadaraefunbote9740 doesn't excuse his actions but yeah, I agree. Not to mention he wasn't fully trained as a guardian either.
@@MrZakiaashraf what actions?
Thank you. The amount of people outright bashing a teenage girl for having teenage problems while trying to be a hero with adult problems… is way too damn high.
YEES
Agree. I'm not a big fan of her but sometimes I think people are way too harsh on her
@@whatever5401 Same!
@@whatever5401 I agree with you.
I don't remember having the urge to stalk a boy
In many ways, both Adrien and Marinette got a raw deal this season. Marinette was left essentially all alone through the first 3 episodes, in the aftermath of losing Master Fu and now being the guardian with almost no training. She was able to reveal herself to Alya and that gave Marinette someone who she didn’t have to hide anything from and that relationship deepened throughout the season, really culminating in Optygami and SentiBubbler.
Adrien, on the other hand, drifted further and further away from Ladybug as the season went on. We really never got that to work itself out this season. I kept waiting for him to tell Ladybug that the distance was hurting him, but he never did. And in a big way, that led to the time where Cat Noir lashed out (SentiBubbler and Hack-San as prime examples). Hopefully the two of them work things out early in season 5.
Yeah, I feel like Chat Noir is slowly moving on from Ladybug. In the finale, he didn't even flirt with her except for calling her "m'lady"
@@chatnoirsimp1171 I don’t think that’s it. I think it’s more CN is giving Maribug space
@@bigj200016 Yeah, that could also be something. But based on the finale, I'm sure the love square has reversed.
the amount of hate she gets is what makes me go harder for her. so many people just limit her to her bad traits but fail to see the good in her, and there's a lot there.
!!
Agree cuz Im forever a marinette stan. I can easily see all her bad flaws as well but that doesnt stop her from being my favorite
Agree! I'm not a big fan of Mari but people are way too harsh on her
totally agree!!
BIIIG agree.
she's such a misunderstood character and gets so much unnecessary hate... she's literally a fourteen year old girl that is the guardian of the miraculous and has to fight akumatized victims almost every day. it's also clear that she suffers from ptsd and has anxiety/panic disorder yet people are attacking her for acting so distant, literally how do you expect her to act when she's dealing with all of those things 24/7 😭 as someone with anxiety, i'll defend marinette with my life idc
Yesss!!!protect her at all costs!!
@@aarssassin yessss 😭
I agree I regret only noticing the bad stuff she does and not the good stuff. I actually really like her now she’s more interesting and is less perfect now she’s definitely one of my favourite characters now.
Ikr 😭 People really need to understand that
@@emuified thank you!good to know that th repurpose if this video is actually fulfilled🥰
People so often focus on what this show does wrong, which is still a valid conversation and I strive for this show to do better, but so few focus on what is done right. The portrayal of abuse and the metaphors surrounding it, I never truly understood how traumatic cat blanc was for Marinette because I don’t understand how deeply trauma takes over your life, but that IS trauma, she watched her best friend go crazy and her city turn to dust for crying out loud
Also including the fact that chat blanc LITERALLY killed all the people in paris and the present ladybug saw her future self turn into ashes. If thats not gonna cause some trauma, then damn her mentality is strong.
also she literally saw her own corpse
It's the writing. The show never made it a priority to show how Chat Blanc impacted Marinette (which I'm sure was traumatic) and they made it very vague as to whether or not she even remembered it
Also the way ladybug is so harsh on getting up against the idea of her and chat noir dating, since chat blanc happened because maribug and adricat is in love
Yeah sure 4.5/10
It doesn't surprise me that people hate Marinette for how she's been this season, but I genuinely cannot understand or empathize with this point of view at all. I thought season 4 did a beautiful job of showcasing just how tough she has it, and how none of the decisions she's made have been easy. It genuinely moved me some of the times we saw her break down in the first few episodes, moved me in ways this show just hasn't before.
I agree honestly, like especially for kuro neko, people hated her for liking a guy that was her type instead of a guy the complete fricking opposite!! (The opposite guy being chat noir here) like bro, ya sure they’ve been fighting side by side for so long or whatever but that doesn’t mean she has to like him platonically let alone romantically. They’re partners but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be a couple, or even friends when you think about it. She’s a teenage girl with a completely understandable type and chat just isn’t it. The worst part is that they DEFEND adrien for not liking mari saying “he just doesn’t like her like that and he doesn’t have to!,1!1!1!1” which is valid of course but then they turn around and say the complete opposite shii to mari.
Oh damn that was longer than expected lmfao
Nah I'm upset she literally threw that man into the trash. Sure he's annoying but he's nowhere near the stalker Marinette is and you know the fandom would go ballistic if Adrien did anything even remotely similar
@@baileythewitchofvoid8784 Except Adrien has done some of the same things that Marinette has done and it's been ignored. Chat sniffs Ladybug? Oh it's so cute! Ladybug sniffs Adrien's pillow? EW she's a creep who does that?! And this is just one example. This show has so many double standards it's crazy.
@@LexysamaIllustrations when did he sniff ladybug?
@@baileythewitchofvoid8784 Even tho i despice marinette and ladybug, I think she did a good job throwing chat noir in the trash. Since chat noir keeps on love-harassing ladybug. And ladybug just wants him to stop that
Marinette getting so much hate in Kuro Neko is something I will never understand.
My god,the king himself,this is perhaphs the most unexpected thing I have seen in a long time
yeah like i completely agree with the hate she gets in seasons 1-3 and some of the things she does in season 4 but Kuro Neko isn’t something she should get hate for
Lol aren’t you one of the biggest Marinette (and Zoe) haters of all the time😂 I really don’t understand Chloe stans
@@paulkofler519 it’s called having logic and knowing what to hate on a character for and what not to
@♡ 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐫𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐞 𝐤𝐨𝐫𝐲𝐚𝐧𝐝’𝐫 ♡ I totally agree. Chat noir sucks in Kuro Neko imo. He was being an insensitive, selfish person with dull reasons. I was actually on Marinette's side the whole time (including the finale). Yes, it's true that I hate Marinette but I'm starting to like her now after strike back. The opposite thing can be said for Adrien. I'm starting to dislike him now, honestly.
after watching this video you actually made me rethink and realize
*"Oh my god, the entire chat blanc scenario is way darker than I thought, no one really deserves to go through that trauma."*
As usual, I can rely on you for rational and reasonable character analysis of this show
man the accuracy of this comment lol
Yee yee!
It’s certainly an interesting watch regardless whether people agree or not with her analysis.
I think the problem stems from the fact that the people are mainly having an issue with what is going on between Ladybug and Chat Noir because of what they see from a viewer perspective and can't seem to understand why Ladybug is acting that way towards him. Whereas she acts better towards the people who she knows the identity of, while simultaneously forgetting she doesn't know who Chat is and only sees him as a partner. I believe that things would be not as complicated if she knew who he was and she could and their wasn't all this distance between them for obvious reasons,one of the reasons is possible acumatization of one of them. Which is why I liked Kuro Neko so much. this was long awaited character development for both the Chat and the Bug. That needed to happen perhaps now they can slowly break down the wall they built between them while slowly understanding each other as time goes on in the next season.
I can agree with all the points you make except Kuro Neko. I would argue it didn’t really ‘solve’ anything. Just Ladybug thinking she did and Plagg telling Adrien things are alright. Which ignore the fact, Chat noir has been replaced (twice - Rena Rouge too). The only reason he got the miraculous ‘back’ was Kuro Neko was too perfect. Which Kuro Neko the hero I see a reflection of the side of Adrien he isn’t too proud of. Part of facade to keep up for his father, which he does for Ladybug. To please them and not for himself. Adrien is obviously still Adrien but never truly allowed to shine his Chat Noir side. I personally wished this conflicted took more than one episode to be resolved. The issues between Chat Noir and Ladybug were reoccurring over many episodes, I find is dissatisfied it was just solved in one episode.
@@spacewalrus9210 Correction here: Kuro Neko was the Villain. Cat Walker (🙄) was the Hero.
@@johannesseyfried7933 lol what?
Yeah, you could tell things got better between them in Ephemeral after she knew his identity. She could call on him directly more often, and they worked were even closer. Not that it's relevant now tho. 😔
Marinette does not deserve hate. Felix was the reason why sbe started having a panic attack and felt like super upset. Through the series, she has to struggle with so much things. A normal life, love, and being a superhero. She tries to find a way to do so many things at once but it ends in her breaking down and feeling like a failure
True one youtube video even made fun of her panic attack.
@@marinetteagreste561 Wow that's so messed up
@@marinetteagreste561 I mean to be fair. The owl house did panic attacks better so...
Okay Marinette is a stalker, obsessive-compulsive, an accomplished liar, border line psychotic, when any other girl so much as speaks to Adrien.
@@raymondlengvarsky618 The other girls only like Adrien cause he's Rich, famous, and a supermodel. Marinette loves him for his personality and kindness, not for his famous appearance
A spot-on defense, but I would say Marinette's encounter with Chat Blanc left her with a constant looming worry that only grew in intensity the more she tried to keep it to herself and patch it up with band-aid solutions, instead of an outright stress disorder developed after an instance of incredible trauma.
As the episodes following Chat Blanc went on, she cultivates a growing balloon of paranoia about the possibility of Chat Blanc coming about and destroying the world, ripened to popping come the finale. As the season continues, she tries to prevent or otherwise alleviate this threat by becoming more and more controlling in her actions and less considerate of Cat Noir's open feelings on the subjects at hand -- an act of dramatic irony we the viewers know is misguided to at least a certain degree by _our_ knowledge about the actual series of events that led to the iteration of Chat Blanc Ladybug was forced to encounter, that subsequently led to this whole mess to begin with.
Her panic attack in the season finale was the inevitable climactic result of all of her efforts to maintain her duties as a hero in this unhealthy control freak mindset -- all, mind you, in order to stave off a potential Chat Blanc-pocalypse -- collapsing in on itself. This translated into a worst-case-scenario event regarding the stealing of the collective miraculouses by her greatest enemy over a worst-case-scenario return of Chat Blanc; _id est,_ becoming a bad outcome rivaling Chat Blanc's own. A potent, 'if you focus too much on the future you'll miss out on the present' life lesson.
Yes, I believe the intention was to give Ladybug a very somber and dark wake-up call about the seriousness of her duties in order to teach another juxtaposed lesson about how taking said duties far too seriously can lead to equally bad outcomes. However, I don't think the writers were afforded enough initiative by upper management to tell a more serious story of the lead heroine developing an obsessive or outright stress-related disorder as a result of her encounter with Cat Noir's akumatized other half.
I've been rather critical of this series, but I will admit this season did a good job redeeming some of its past failings. Giving Marinette so potent a character flaw in need of being overcome was a great addition to her character, and may allow Cat Noir a chance to finally shine now that the hour is at its darkest.
She has had generalized anxiety (mild) since season 1
I think we could specify the lesson to "If you focus too much on sabotaging one bad possible future, you're gonna cause another".
the issue i have with these kinds of stories/ character arcs is that even though i get why they're angry and acting in such infuriating ways, they still act in those ways and that's not enjoyable most of the time. the way you explain her actions makes sense, but the show's fast pace makes these conclusions harder to make to a casual audience.
Yep
It's especially hard for a casual audience to grasp when the show constantly changes it's tone, too.
One episode could be dark and depressing, the next could be comedic and focused towards young children, and back to solemn and angsty, and back to silly haha antics. Or if it gets too angsty there's a magic reset in Bunnyx, Viperion, or an Akuma.
And that *really* does a disservice to Mari, Adrien, *and* Gabe's characters, especially when you can no longer tell if a throwaway moment will actually come up again or not. Mostly thanks to the writers never actually tying those loose ends up properly.
Not to mention the wacky episode airings that aired episodes out of order that a lot of actions characters made seemed out of context for viewers watching the show during airing. I know I was definitely confused. 🥴
How the heck are a majority of fans supposed to understand Mari if they can hardly understand the time line of episodes themselves? 😂
@@CindySugar finally someone says something about the wack episode order. It was really frustrating to follow, and it caused a lot of moments and plot points to feel confusing or out of place.
It's not the the sole reason for the show's flaws, but oh boy it sure enhanced them.
@@greenstarlover1Agreed. The show has a lot of issues but that was one of them for me. The episode airing orders confused the fuck out of me.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. marinette is a flawed yet amazing character and i loved seeing her storyline this season. the final scene in strike back made my heart so FULL it was really a beautiful ending to the season’s arc and i’m very emotional over it sksjslkds😭
anyway your analyses are always so freaking good! i’ll def be recommending this video, mari deserves all the love
edit: also, if anyone is interested i wanted to mention the topic of the stalker claims and my take on it, since this wasn’t rlly part of the video. i agree it’s *kind of* a problem? but i also don’t think it’s as big a deal as some people make it out to be, and isn’t a reason to obsessively trash on marinette.
for one thing, this is a cartoon. i think it’s important to recognize when it’s supposed to be taken seriously, and when it isn’t. marinette’s infatuation with adrien has been exaggerated for comedic purposes, so we should keep that in mind when watching.
stalking is defined as “harassing or persecuting someone with unwanted and obsessive attention.” as i saw someone else point out, mari has never harassed adrien or done anything he’d consider unwanted or obsessive.
i agree taking his phone and keeping track his schedule is maybe a little worrying? (granted, the schedule thing was clearly just an exaggerated way to show marinette’s tendency to organize and overthink everything, and i doubt any little kids watching are going to take it seriously to the point of copying down their own crushes’ schedules. kids know when a scene is humorous exaggeration.) and the scene in shanghai when she’s influenced by adrien’s presence in her decision to visit china did bug me a little.
however, even if we accept that marinette has done bad things, i don’t think that’s enough to cancel out all the good things she’s done and all the positive traits she represents. marinette is caring, she’s proactive and not afraid to think on her feet and step up to do the right thing, she has an adorable chaotic energy, she’s selfless, i could go on but you get the idea. i think people’s standards for marinette’s behavior are very high considering her positive track record, so when she makes a mistake it’s overanalyzed and obsessed over as if it defines her whole character, which it shouldn’t. also, i suspect at least part of the criticism is perpetuated by people who aren’t actually fans of the show (obviously the show isn’t for everyone so i get why some don’t see the appeal) but who enjoy the drama of hearing a character criticized. in which case there is less context and understanding of the overall tone of the show. of course there’s nothing wrong with criticizing or disliking a character, but in this case i think it becomes obsessive to the point of spreading vitriol.
tl;dr yes i can see the argument that marinette has displayed some borderline creepy behavior. but in my opinion, that’s not enough to label her a stalker, or to disregard all the good aspects of her character. especially taking into account the cartoonishly-exaggerated tone of those scenes. so i’m still a marinette stan. but of course, if you disagree with me i respect your opinion.
@@laneyyyyyyyyy I agree, even though I wish it was a little bit addressed.
how is she an amazing character? she’s gotten hardly any character development, she’s a stalker but she never gets called out for her actions or faces consequences, and most of her personality is just being obsessed with Adrien. good characters actually develop and have personality. she’s gotten a lot better in season 4 but she is by no means an amazing character
@@laneyyyyyyyyy she has harassed adrien. adrien was obviously very uncomfortable with what she did during that wax statue thing AND THEN SHE GASLIT HIM AND MADE HIM FEEL GUILTY. and actually there are kids who have been influenced by marinette. I’ve seen like 3 stories of kids who looked up to marinette so they stalked their crushes and they got in trouble for it. marinette is an awful role model for kids
@@ali_exists1482 that’s valid. i think she’s an awesome character for several reasons- she’s sweet and caring, she has a tendency to overthink and overplan which is very relatable, she’s a heroic person who pays attention to her surroundings and thinks on her feet to take action when needed. i could go on, but the point is, i personally find a lot of things to like about her. if you don’t, though, that’s ok. we all have different opinions.
i agree adrien was definitely uncomfortable in the statue scene, but marinette didn’t know it was him. she just made a mistake, and would never have knowingly or intentionally made him uncomfortable like that. i’m not sure what you mean by gaslighting. also thanks for letting me know about the kids who got in trouble, i didn’t know about that but that’s a good point. it surprises me that they would take a humorous scene that seriously. however i bet there’s a lot more kids who have been inspired by her to be kind and heroic.
I LOVED Marinette’s whole arc of being stressed out as a new guardian it was nice to see a more vulnerable and somewhat mature side of Marinette with these new responsibilities. I wish the show would have focused on this side of her and maybe her fashion designer side more than her obsessed with Adrien side. Yes Marinette is flawed but beyond the “stalker” argument I feel like people are FISHING for reasons to hate her. It sucks because she’s my favorite character despite her flaws. I stand by Marinette!! She was awesome this season!!! 💙💖
she tried to bully kagami with chloe too and ditches any morals she has and treats people like shit for adrien. trust me youd never wanna be around someone like her irl
What arc? Every episode is single story episode that barely connects to eachother except for the finales and the first episodes of the season.
@@ashleyyy7781 I don't remember her treating people shit for Adrien other one yeah that's true even so she and Kagami became friends in the end.
@@ashleyyy7781 Facts!
@@ashleyyy7781 despite attempting to humiliate kagami, remember that marinette ultimately realises that working with chloe to harm kagami was a horrible and terrible idea. plus, in the end of season 3 and the start of season 4, marinette DOES come to accept adrigami's relationship- when she found out that they broke up, her first thought was checking up on kagami and her feelings.
marinette, despite her bad writing and questionable flaws, is generally supposed to be a good person. her personality shouldn't be watered down to her 'obsessive' crush on adrien
It's so refreshing seeing someone not write video essays about how much they hate a 14 year old girl with pretty bad trauma
I don’t dislike Marinette because she’s flawed. She wouldn’t be much of a character if she wasn’t . It’s the fact that these issues are almost never called out by anyone and it’s even framed to be “cute”. I’m hard on Marinette because she’s the main character. Any and all actions that she does and the words she says will be watched by young people that are going to took at her for guidance. It’s also the narrative that Marinette is almost never in the wrong when she is.
That moment when she was lecturing SuHan when SuHan was in the RIGHT. But Marinette was right because “she’s the guardian and the main character so of course she’s right.”
Of course this backfires on her but at that time there was NO indication that her words were going to backfire in the first place because instead of SuHan still being wary, he just blindly agreed with Marinette.
I get she’s a teenager. I understand that she has to juggle all of these different things. But a narrative should still be responsible with its story telling. ESPECIALLY if the main character IS a teen. I don’t identify with people who will go out of their way to bash ANY character for the sake of bashing them (unless it’s all in good fun and it’s to roast their design- (or like they REALLY deserve it coughBeloscough)) But for the people who are giving criticism to this character, they aren’t haters. They are people who want Marinette to be better.
It's the same with people who criticize Adrien who is portrayed as being perfect. His background is not an excuse for most of his negative actions, but his stans think otherwise.
@@willynillysillymonobear I agree like I've dealt with neglect myself but the early seasons just made him so relatable for me since my socialising skills back then was affected by the way I was raised hence is the reason why I didn't have a good impression at first but then when it comes him harrassing ladybug? no just no. like I do pity him and all because no child deserves to raised like that (talking about his backstory) but even I wouldn't go THAT far😐 the dude just needs some therapy end of story
@@willynillysillymonobear So does Thomas for some reason
I don't understand your point about SuHan. When Marinette's words backfired on her, that was meant to literally show that she's not always in the right. There are many occurrences in the show where the show clearly makes her in the wrong, and has her, along with young viewers, learn a valuable lesson at the end of the episode. For example, her stalking of Adrien has resulted in an akuma multiple times, and she is lectured by Tikki but doesn't listen. After the akumatized villain is freed, she realizes what she did wrong, teaching herself and viewers a lesson.
@@imfeelingsappy782 What I’m saying is that in that moment there was no telling that anything was going to backfire. Su-Han should have still disagreed with her because he WAS in the right. But instead he just….agreed. He’s been a guardian for YEARS. For him to just drop his argument just like THAT didn’t make sense. Also she hasn’t learned to not be a creep around Adrien still. She legit contemplates to sabotage his performance so she could spend more time with him IN SEASON 4.
Fun fact: The human brain isn't fully developed until age *25*. Mari is nowhere near that age so it makes sense to me. She's obviously going to make the wrong decisions under a truckload of stress. Besides, seeing characters, especially the main character loose moral dive and be in the wrong is something I like and wish to see in more media. It's extremely human yet not often seen in the protagonist as much as Ladybug
The only thing that stops developing at age 25 its your control over your impulses. Literally the only difference in the brain of a 18 year old and a 25 year old is that the 18 year old will do more dumb shit impulsively, and the 15 year old will have an easier time controlling said impulses.
Nah just becuase the brain is not fully developed means she doesn't know right from wrong
@@PeepHeem Yes, But she'd make more unprocessed and poorly thought decisions. Especially under pressure.
@@smileyfaceinc.9110 True but some of the actions she took felt malicious in earlier seasons but in season 4 I agree
She literally commited a crime, I guess because her brain isn't fully developed it means that those actions can be excused
As someone who has anxiety, the way they depicted her anxiety attack was amazing. It almost perfectly showed exactly what the mind goes through before and during the anxiety attack. I’ve never been so impressed with this show.
I like Mari as a character, and Adrien as well, I just think the repeating ABC plots of the episodes can really kill what we are supposed to be taking in. A lot of people get stuck in each episode instead of looking at it as an overview as you did here. While I have some problems with the inconsistencies of the the world in general, and it’s sometimes confusing way of trying to show things, I most of the time can tell what an episode is trying to do.
I will say I hate the stalker vibes that both of them have and wish they would get rid of it. It is just not a fun thing nor do I think it should be used for comedy. I also dislike the way that both Mari and Adrien, when told that the other person wasn’t interested, didn’t really drop it.
Thank you for being the one person who acknowledges that Adrien also has stalker tendencies lol. Harassment is not okay, and he does that all the time with his mask on for someone who already made clear to him that she likes someone else. As for them not dropping their feelings, I can't really be mad at them for that, because getting over your crush on someone isn't the easiest thing in the world. :/ It doesn't just magically happen, but friendship can still come out of that either way. It's been indicated that Marinette's been trying to get over Adrien in S4, despite the few episodes where she wants to get his attention (or clearly still likes him). The same can't be said for Cat Noir, but again, I don't necessarily blame him for still having feelings for Ladybug. It's a matter of how he goes about her not returning those feelings.
I don’t think it’s „stalker tendencies” for Adrien. He was flirty and a jokester from day one, and though Ladybug seems annoyed, she said she genuinely enjoys his humor.
@@confusedara Yes he was flirty and a jokester from day one, but you are looking at just their interactions. Adrien has every picture of Ladybug saved that has been captured and posted, and the same for every article written about her. The only reason we don't see it as much as we do with Mari is that Adrien is a person who does things on a day to day, but Adrien can't do that with Ladybug since she only shows up when attacks happen. Hence, he can only collect pictures and articles.
Also we don't know much about Adrien's crush cause we hardly see him who's to say he isn't as obsessive as marinette. But I am not hating on Adrien. In fact I like him more than Mari. I am just pointing out to those who says Adrien crush in genuine and mari is obsessive. And too me both of their love is unhealthy and obsessive to me.
People forget that Adrien has a stash of Ladybug pictures stashed in a trophy (Oni-chan). 😫
As a Maribug AND an Adrichat stan, I agree.
yesss same here!
Same
SAME
This is undoubtedly the best analysis I've seen of a main character, especially Marinette, who is an extremely hated character for no compelling reason.
Marinette is a teenager forced to act like an adult due to the circumstances that have been presented to her. Her writing is done quite realistically due to her actions and for people to only look at it in a flawed way makes me too angry and uncomfortable as they only look at the surface when there is more beneath it.
Thank you very much for all the effort you have put into this video, it is an excellent analysis that, until now, almost nobody has dared to do. Keep it up! ❣️
shes hated for being a creepy stalker who breaks into houses and sniffs her crush and uses her power whenever convenient for her no other compelling reason besides things that would make her a creep and a freak in normal society besides that shes just a bland protag
@@ashleyyy7781 I agree that it's awkward to watch when Mari does something quite abrupt but in the show they never really showed it as if she was doing anything right. Also, saying that people hate her just because she makes mistakes is an invalid argument, it's part of the development, otherwise it would be insipid.
Poor Cat Noir, he has been getting sidelined for a while now but I appreciate that he’s so supportive of Ladybug, however I can’t blame Ladybug, she’s the guardian! But also, Ladybug has been treating Cat Noir as the second in command; when he’s an equal partner and not even telling him anything , and she tells Rena more. Anyway, thanks for the amazing video!
I mean its easy for her cause she knows who Rena is and the trust between her and Rena would be stronger, not saying she doesn't trust Chat, its just different type of trust.
i agree but also don't forget the reason chat noir was sidelined by ladybug was to do with her trauma from chat blanc. by pushing him away, she was trying to protect both him and herself
Adrien Agreste is the deuteragonist of the show. And while Ladybug & Cat Noir are equal as partners, she has always been the one in the lead - something Cat Noir himself acknowledges. Whether or not you all admit it, these are the facts and have been since the very 1st episode of the show.
@@willynillysillymonobear thats why its sucks
@@kgt6776 Not really, it just is what it is. It'd be nice to have more episodes centered around Adrien, of course, but idk why people complain so much about equality when he's always been the deuteragonist lol
I relate a lot to Marinette, and every time I see hate towards her it really messes with me. I've done similar dumb things that she did when I was younger. I've seen people with just as much pressure on them act the same way.
I do understand some points of views from people who hate her, but she's going to learn as she grows. It's not going to happen in one day of an episode, you know?
I know right? People making fun of her for some traits really hurts me. I even cried one time. (Not joking)
Thanks for this. The hate for Marinette is disturbing. I was surprised that fans are hating on her. Mostly when I see a ML video, the hate comes to the season currently airing or the show in general for the direction it goes in. Seeing this was a breath of fresh air. Thank you for this.
Also, now that Alya and Luka know Ladybug's identity, I wonder who the next person will be to know. Let me know who you think will be the next one on the Marinette reveal train.
Alix maybe you know Bunnyx?
@@daplayer1343Yeah. Maybe she already knows considering that she's from the future. She probably knows Ladybug's identity already. She probably looked through some historical records or something and found out that way. That's just a theory.
Hopefully nobody tbh lol. If anything, I think Adrien having someone he can share his identity with would be awesome for once (since he wasn't as close to Master Fu as Mari was). I would say Nino since he's his best friend, but after Rocketear, I'm not 100% sure if he could keep it a secret from Alya. :/
I think that people are saying that in season 5, their identity’s will be revealed. So if this is true, then everyone will know.
@@wisdomcube3.019 she found out in chat blank
Hyper analysing Maribug's actions this season as a reaction to CB trauma has been so interesting for me, like the subtle hints were there if you as an audience member understand the context of Chat Blanc and how she reacted to it. She definitely suppressed her trauma back in S3 so the cracks showed in S4 the most. I'm just glad we have some contingency!
Also don't even get me started on the disturbing fanarts that resulted from a highly edited trailer of Kuro Neko, like it was definitely a good episode but the fandom soured my taste for it completely. Fantastic analysis as always! ^^
The fandom: Marinette is such a mary sue, she's too perfect, she doesn't have any flaws at all
The show: *gives her flaws*
The fandom: Wow Marinette is so mean and terrible to Chat Noir, she deserves everything that's coming to her!
I know right? They are hypocrites.
This is why I left the fandom
More like both characters, the writers make her live in a harsh life while Adrien is living the harsh life already. And yet, THEY DON'T GET FREEDOM OF CHARACTER. Adrien character personality is out of nowhere, for Marinette, they made her dirty because how narcissistic she is, but I would not mind if she changes for the better, so adding for the narcissist personality of hers. But she also needs to learn boundaries and everything about miraculous holder, despite not being tutored, it would be nice if Su Han (is that how you spell it? Idk to me) is the supporting cast for the main characters, his character development was kinda exaggerated, let alone make Marinette stressed out. If I have to be honest, he can be strict, loving and prideful of his own job. There, that should fix Master Fu's running away responsibilities. Su Han can help Marinette, if she is ready to be ladybug, not where Master Fu pretends to "can't stand" up for himself in the middle of the streets just by kindness. That doesn't work if you want to make them superheroes. Make them have desires to become one, or a wish why you wanted it. Su Han can help you anything, something that Master Fu didn't tutored them about. The miraculous holder if he's going to retire in the future, some old hacks of how to fight your enemies and etc. There, your job is finally easy to be one of the greatest superheroes in Paris. Marinette and Adrien had no reason to feel empty if they are loveable characters. Marinette is bad in the beginning, and she finally realized her narcissistic personality is going to put her in worst. Making her feel doubt and hate herself that she couldn't feel any imperfect. While Adrien is depressed in the beginning, and times passed by, he experience so much of happiness and healthy life outside his controlling life. He loves being in his Chat Noir suit as he run wild like a child for attention
She’s a stalker too ❤️
@@Rainjojo Oh you people pointed that later out :P you never cared but then say: *oH maRI is a StAlkER*
Quite frankly, I was excited when Marinette told Alya she was Ladybug. It made me think we reached the status that other superhero/magical shows start with, the "best friend knows about the secret identity." (For example: Cardcaptor Sakura, Randy Cunninghams the Ninth Grade Ninja, etc). That excitement quickly declined when the miscommunication and bad priorities began. I was happy that Marinette had someone to confide in, but it blew into an exclusive VIP club kinda thing.
this video is the best thing ever. as her biggest Stan I try and defend her with all these points so thank you for voicing it to an actual big audience. you even made me see how her pushing him away was a ptsd response of chat blanc so that adds so much more depth. the whole fandom absolutely should watch this. because she gets hate over most of this without understanding her.
It is just one episode in which I think she stood really low: when she asks Juleka to uninvite Luca to his own birthday
I agree but she said herself in the episode that it would break Luka's heart to see her and it would be awkward and stuff, but yeah
@@ivano8093 that does not make things better since she is choosing for him what's best. Luka stated clearly he wanted to see her
@@flaviamolisso8581 but she wasn’t ready to see him she was going through trauma and as a result she was recking her relationship with her friends and most importantly herself not justified on
Her part but just saying what is going on with that side
@@MonsterMama16 whyd not just not go to HIS party tho?
great video as always! I always hate how people are so quick to hate Marinette for having feelings and thinking the way she does. I feel like people often forget to think from the perspective of the characters.
Agree. I'm not a big fan of her but sometimes I think people are way too harsh on her
This is definitely one of the best Marinette reviews so far on CZcams because most people just want to slander her instead of seeing things from her perspective.
Hands down the BEST break down of Marinette so far, and the Ladynoir dynamic this season!! ⭐⭐⭐ As someone who used to be an ml salter on Tumblr, I can truly say this was the best season so far, and I have faith it'll go in the best direction. 🔥 Everyone could enjoy this show more if they remembered that the two main characters are both children, and that we as an audience knows more than either of them. Feels like people tend to forget that a lot.
I actually like marinettes complex flaws it really makes her human. I sadly left the fandom because they were so persistent in hating on marinette it was so enerving
It is
I know the stalking part is a little excessive and the show isn't totally perfect, but I still love it nonetheless.
@@Alexi-Raener93 the fandom made me hate the show :/
@@Going.Creative._mode That's why you should never involve yourself in fandoms these days because most of them are just filled to the brim with toxicity and the few sane people in them end up either getting so fed up with the fandom that they end up quitting the show (which is quite sad) or they just end up leaving the fandom just to save their sanity.
Sometimes those people who leave do end up coming back to watch, which is always good, but in most fandoms today you can't interact with people without someone causing some problem or complaint about something meaningless and meaningless. The most recent things that come to mind are Star vs. and the Steven Universe fandoms. They were both great shows (in my opinion), but some of the people in these fandoms were just unbareable (even though I never interacted with any of these fandoms).
I heard about some of the horrible things that happened and the anime community is kind of the same thing with sub watchers just constantly trying to cause problems with people who watch dub and you always see them coming to the videos of dubbed clips for certain anime and leaving dumb comments or snipe remarks like "oh it's not as bad as I thought it would be" or "this is actually a pretty decent dub".
But anyway, engaging in conversation with people from most fandoms these days is a pretty bad idea for the most part, not unless you know that there are decent people in these fandoms and anyone who's toxic is immediately booted if they start causing trouble.
@@Alexi-Raener93 ikr I feel like I should just watched the episodes and don't look at the social media
Miraculous Ladybug, a child-friendly show with flashy costumes, monologging supervillains, child neglect, PTSD, a child seeing her own corpse (turning to dust, no less!), a narcissistic sociopath, and a 14 year old slowly blossoming from an optimistic, cheerful teenager to a broken, mentally-damaged young lady! How fun!
One thing I hate is how people judge her so bad for being a "stalker" without taking in consideration the fact that this was going to be an Anime, and this type of archtypes are often used for enterntainment. Also in western animation "stalkers" or obsessed girls, are normal and just a cliché, for example Isabella in Phineas and Ferb, or Tootie in Fairy Odd Parents.
Yeah, it's not good but it's certainly not the only case yet Mari is the only character I hear that reaction about
Yes!!! It’s so unfair to judge Marinette as a whole for that. It’s not her fault she’s supposed to be a comic relief. Fans so often forget that this show is also intended for kids, and this is the kind of stuff the writers think is funny for kids. That’s also why she’s so clumsy and doofy- so it’s not really her fault for being overdone by the writers. It’s supposed to be an amusing side bit, not make her a stalker.
It's also a double standard, because Chat Noir can be just as bad as her when it comes to Ladybug. You also need to factor in that Marinette (in the earlier season's and at her worst) was written primarily by adult straight cis men. So they're the ones making her react like what they *_wish_* teenage girls would. It comes down to misogyny, but people never want to have a good faith conversation about her creepy behavior. It's only ever used as a talking point to bash her. Like yes, that stuff is creepy. Pretty sure no one disagrees with you there. But why don't you have the same energy for Chat Noir? Why are you giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Marinette doesn't get the same treatment? The question is rhetorical of course, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
the characters are obviously designed off of popular anime archetypes/characters. marinette is the typical schoolgirl/shoujo lead (think usagi from sailor moon). most of her ¨creepy stalker¨ antics are comically exaggerated, or already embodied by preexisting tropes. its as simple as that. its strange how people are acting like this is the first time ever a character´s ever been written like that.
@@ToonRuinsOfficial hi please can you do a video on Gabriel agreste/hawkmoth character please
My partner has ptsd episodes sometimes from being sa’ed and seeing one in person is so similar to how Marinette acts. Literally anything that reminds her of Chat Blanc triggers her. The same thing happens with my partner so I definitely feel empathy here
Marinette's Chat Blanc breakdowns are textbook PTSD symptoms.
People keep forgetting that Marinette is a 14 year old. They're expecting her to have the emotional maturity of an adult. Most adults would struggle to handle these situations.
Lying to her parents to go to Shanghai to stalk Adrien was unforgivable, but Marinette later found herself overwhelmed by her own lies.
I agreed with everything you said, and I felt bad for all the hate Marinette got she didn’t deserve it.
I just didn’t like marinette being a stalker
@@chloeeng6811Understandable, a lot of people didn’t.
I think the hate for Ladybug isn't for her, but for the writers. She has so much potential to be such a complex and relateable character, but the writers CONSTANTLY fail her.
it's honestly so refreshing seeing a youtube video that actually defends and supports marinette cause there are so many that bash on her for reasons that either aren't her fault but are caused by the writers of the show, for reasons that aren't actually present in canon, or just simply no reason. people love to hate her for some reason and it's incredibly dissapointing and frustrating cause there are so many times where i'm like, "are we watching the same show because i can't see where you got that from?!??" marinette breathes wrong and people hate on her but adrien literally irresponsibly leaves his miraculous on a roof and people completely excuse it. it's one of those "show don't tell" things that the show *tells* us that adrien's a great person and hero but it's not something i actually see
im glad someone else agrees that telling alya shes ladybug was a sensible decision like telling cn is way too dangerous but if she didnt tell anyone she would have gone insane
you should totally watch thecartoonhotspots video on this too!it's her most recent one xD
I hate how the fandom always thinks Marinette/Ladybug is the show's villian or something or how they would prefer the show to center around other characters. She has the most screen time so of course we are going to see all her flaws but that makes her realistic and relatable. She also has the most responsibility out of all the teens.
People who say Marinette is a stalker (which I gotta say it's kinda true) also should criticize Cat Noir for the creepy ability to not take a no for an answer, I hate that....😤
Exactly! That's such petty behaviour.
Exactly!
I've always found his behaviour weird and unnecessary like sure it does have good REASONING but it's not going excuse how gross he can be at times ☹️ and the sad thing is, is that I was starting kin Adrien at some point but S4 ruined that for me and sort of butchered his character 😐
AGREED I hate it!
@@_husky_3043 yeah the thing is he already took no for an answer a while ago but they keep regressing it
When you look at this story in a much larger scale like just what you did, you can really see that a lot of the decisions made prior to where the story is rn actually makes sense and is good!!! and it really makes it into a very engaging story(tho ofc the criticisms directed to this show is understandable). Also when you really reflect on the story, you really realize that both Mari and Adrien have their fair share of toxicity and fuck ups and that it's not one sided which everyone makes it out to be.
I so agree with you. Mari stans defends mari and talks shit about adrien.
Adrien stans defend adrien and talks shit about Mari.
But I would say that they share same toxicity not one sided which the fandom will never understand.
THANK YOU!
@@marinetteagreste561 again.... thank you!
@@marinetteagreste561 I gravely abhor when people pin things on specific characters who are not even at fault.
I'm glad I found this! I haven't encountered a channel who defended Ladybug/Marinette. She was always made fun of because of her flaws. And despite all seriousness, do any of y'all wonder why do they all detransform on rooftops when they had no way to go down when on their civilian forms? I just couldn't get it out of my head LOL.
thank you for making this video I feel like so many toxic Adrien stans hate on Mari for no reason
Is sad actually she is a teenager their life’s are almost always hard
Not to mention the ones who harass others for liking marinette and dislike Adrien
I'd like to think I've cemented myself as one of the Adrien stans that doesn't. 😺🙏
But for real, I think people just take things too personally. If there was no conflict, the show would be boring - the dynamic between the two of them is what makes the show so great.
There are some ppl who just don't like marinette but remain respectful about it but that's only a small percentage of the fandom soooo
I used to dislike Ladybug so much, but season 4 made me actually like her a lot.
I just love seeing her act…human.
And not perfect like in some other episodes.
Yeah… I like seeing her more human side too. Looking forward to what the creators do for future episodes
I just love seeing her suffer.
I love seeing characters suffer in general 😏
@@footymo9740 lmao
@@footymo9740 honestly, same but only in moderation 😅 (I was happy to see it in season 4 but I would’ve preferred having it toned down for season 5)
In seasons 1 and 2 I liked her season three made he dislike as well as the New York special a bit but season four made me like her again
When you think about it, the "you can't/no one can know my identity" rule being made up makes perfect sense. How are you supposed to hold someone accountable for their actions with the miraculous and it's powers if you don't know who they are? A secret identity is as much a liability as an open one. Sure if the villains know who you are and your loved ones get put in danger, but if the other heros don't know who you are they can't protect your family from harm to keep you or them from being manipulated. If you get defeated and your identity is revealed afterwards when the villain checks your body they can manipulate your team by say... "Not another move, or I hurt Ladybugs family, your precious comrade and friend's loved ones offed, and it will be your fault!" It makes your actions inscrutable, breeds distrust, and will be revealed later anyway more often then not leading to further harm and endangerment. This all gets compounded upon by the guardian's duties of keeping track of, doling out, and safe guarding the miraculous. How can you keep track of a miraculous if you don't know who it's holder is, where they live, what there schedule is, and how to find them? How can you trust someone with a miraculous if you don't know who they are? How can you keep one safe if you don't even know where it IS most of the day?
This is, so far, the best explanation on all of Ladybug as a character and how she's being built up, along with her logic.
My frustration had already been building up in season 4 due to ladybug's over-reliance on rena rouge & neglect of cat noir, so Kuro Neko was like a slap in the face lol. The fact that the "resolve" for Kuro Neko happened NOT because ladybug missed the old cat noir, but because cat walker distracted her too much was really disappointing. This is why seeing Strike Back was such a gratifying finale; it felt like ladybug realized her mistakes and cat noir put aside his frustration with her (even though, like you said, there are some vital conversations they need to have). However, seeing this video really put in perspective the stress she was undergoing (we have old fart Master Fu to thank for that), and I'm now less irritated with her actions this season.
You missed the point of Kuro Neko but ok
She did miss Cat Noir. “I lost my kitty cat too, and I miss him a lot!”
But she missed him, lol. She never really wanted him to give up his miraculous but she was worried about hurting him more (especially since she doesn't reciprocate his feelings) that she decided to look for another holder. After Cat Walker, she reaffirmed that there would never be a better cat miraculous holder than Chat Noir.
@@LoveHyoBaby exactly omg thank you!!! Not to mention, she only fell for CatWalker after he showed her his Adrien side. Yet, she still wanted Cat Noir back and missed him “I lost my kitty cat too, and I miss him a lot”
I thought i was the only one who hated master fu!
A lot of people hold characters to the same level of accountability they would an adult. But the problem is that these characters aren't adults. They're children/teenagers, and a lot of them handle their situations better than most adults would in their place. Marinette is a 14 year old who has to save Paris daily, look after magical creatures with almost no training and try to balance her civilian life on top of it. She clearly suffers from PTSD or some sort of anxiety/panic disorder, and after all she's been through is it really that surprising?? A lot of the hate she receives is completely unwarranted. That doesn't mean she doesn't have flaws, because she does. Look at how she treats Adrien. It's full on stalking, and the people around her say nothing about it or even encourage it in the name of love. Society often enables and encourages creepy behaviour, and it's full on weird. Sooner or later, someone has to pull her on it. I'm not saying that the way she lashed out and treated Cat was healthy or warranted (although, there were a couple of moments where her anger at him was understandable), but it is accurate. At the end of the day, she was just trying to keep everyone safe. In the process, she ended up hurting him, but she's now realised that. After the Chat Blanc incident, she was trying to do her best to prevent it from happening again with what limited knowledge she had on the situation. Most of her actions were justified, even if she didn't perform them in the best way. You have to remember that she's only 14, and she's trying to do what she thinks is right. And most of the time, she does that.
Best comment in this section!🌟 Holding her accountable and acknowledging she's imperfect while also acknowledging her mental health state & age, and how the two affects a lot of her decisions.
@@willynillysillymonobear thank you so much, this comment honestly made me really happy 😭
Super unrelated but i think that after Befana she is technicly 15. still tho your point absolutely stands
Can we all agree that time travel and Fu ultimately screwed these two teenagers over? With time travel being a crutch for solving problems - ranging from "yes, we need time travel to solve it" to "did time travel really need to happen for this to be resolved" kinds of trouble. And Fu not being around for either of these two young heroes to even teach the more. Or playing into a strong sense of favoritism toward Ladybug from what is shown. ( I know that it was explained that it was his own method and not the actual guardian ways, but I still feel like he did not add much to the story)
That being said, I will admit this video did help with some lingering thoughts about the show that while the story is more intense and there are deeper connections, it is progressing. But if I have to be frank, I think a lot of it could be burnout to get to this point and one too many times of the promise of change happening but then pulled back. And yes, people make mistakes and constantly go back to it; I get that. But from a writing standpoint, there comes a time and moment when it is like, "Okay, we got all of this progress and personal drama, but I don't feel like it was justified or worth it." Either because the audience is told a lot about this and not allowed to really see it and infer more from it, or when we do have time to watch and see, what is happening doesn't always reflect the story's intention.
I will say that I am glad that I watched this video, and it gave me something new to think about regarding the show's trajectory. But I can't outright say that I like how we got here. For me, many moments in how fast the writing and things happening in the show broke my anticipation of watching and trying to follow along. I wish I could have seen the show the way you broke it down, but I feel that some of this should have been set up in season 3 a bit more to make sense and flow better. Rather than just having events built up the way they did and feeling like characters are acting out instead of natural progression. But that is just my general thoughts about how as a whole of season 4 felt.
All I want to say is:THANK YOU for pointing this out! I am honestly tired of everyone just hating on marinette for all she has done this season without rlly understanding stuff from her point of view or understanding why she did most of what she did in the first place!
Thomas: Marinette's only personality trait is being in love with Adrien
All of us: *ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT-*
yeah, i hate when people just see her as being obssesed with Adrien
This was absolutely amazing. I despise how much hate she’s been getting, when she does have very justifiable reasons for her actions. Are they right by any means? No. But she was backed in a corner, she can’t turn to chat noir, & like stated-she’s suffering from so much anxiety & her response to ptsd from chat Blanc.
The real problem with Marinette is the writers if I’m honest
Literally sobbing over this video. Thank you for this 😭💗
Finally!someone defending this poor girl😭😭
@@aarssassin Finally, sane people!
True. Good to see that some people are still defending her.
@@aarssassin ikr!😭
I'm glad there's somebody who can see the good in Marinette. Now,is Marinette perfect?? In my opinion,no she has flaws and it's good to understand that and not blatantly ignore them. In fact,I think it's better to recognise characters for their good and their bad instead of ignoring either their bad or good,just because the other outweighs that for you. So,in conclusion,if you like Marinette,that's fine and completely understandable,but it's somewhat objectively better if you don't ignore her bad traits just because you see her good traits.
I love marinette but i am not afraid to point out her flaws
Yeah. Like I love Marinette a lot but she needs to slow down her stalker tendencies. But what I am saying is that the people who hates her only sees the bad things she did. While with some Mari stans they only see the good stuffs and not the bad stuffs. Like you said if you lika character you see the good AND bad traits.
@@aarssassin I have a feeling in Season 5 she will get some character development.
Why do Marinette stans hate Adrien and Adrien stans hate Marinette- Why doesn't anyone see them as equal for once? Even the creators don't see them as equal. 😭
Both of them have flaws and have to deal with a lot. Adrien dealing with his abusive father and being rejected, and Marinette anxious about being the guardian. Yet people hate on both of them so horribly much for that..... They deal with enough give the two a break for once.
Love your profile picture and name. Since I am a hopeless Chat simp
@@marinetteagreste561 Yeah same.
Being based is hating the both of them.
@@himdevil2391 yeah
People also tend to forget that they are not adults
Exactly she’s only 13-14 very young also because she has too many responsibilities
You honestly make really good points. If we look at things through Marinette's eyes it actually is understandable why she reacts the way she does.
Season 4 is forever my favourite season for both Adrien and Marinette and I found myself loving Marinette a lot more, having my moments of relatability in stress and that one episode where they discussed concerns for future occupations
Guys took a long absence. Where is everyone?
After coming back into Miraculous Ladybug, I felt confused and bored with the episodes because of how either poorly paced or bad the animation is. Thomas had great ideas, but was poorly executed. Seeing that Marinette is going through an arc of trying to balance civilian and hero life, and how impactful it is, gives me hope for the next season. Although the good studio might be gone, the stories might balance itself out.
I really like good writing, and even if its a children show. I hope to see the writers give it their best as the main plot comes to the end.
After watching the video, I have gained some understanding of Ladybug's actions and motives. While it hasn't completely made me a fan, my opinion has improved slightly. However, I cannot overlook how Chloe was disregarded and thrown into obscurity.
do people really forget that Marrinette is 14..a child for god's sake!I am 14 and i'm telling you, I wouldn't last even a single day with such responsibilities and trauma/ptsd.
If anyone’s is to blame, I blame Master Fu. Choosing 14 year olds to save an entire city is already placing too much responsibility on them, making a girl ladybug AND the guardian is insanely much responsibility and to place that on Marinette is straight up cruel. That is also why I would’ve preferred it if the characters were a little older at least(I know this is a kids show but the topics it deals with are so complex and deep that it would’ve been better to target an older audience altogether)
Also he could have easily split up the duties between Ladybug and Chat Noir, preventing both characters biggest issues, to much responsibility and feeling unneeded. Even if you ignore that I don't know why he wouldn't just split it up in the first place. If Ladybug is unmasked or trapped when they need help, they're just screwed because all the kwamis are with her
Yeah. Fu told Ladybug everything and completely kept Adrien in the dark. Also he made Mari the guardian fully knowing that Mari can't handle it.
But in my opinion he's much better than Su Han.
@@marinetteagreste561 Is he really better though? I mean I kind of agree with a lot of Su Han's arguments like that it's irresponsible to give the most powerful miraculous to 13 year olds(at the time they got it they were not even 14 yet) or that it is absolutely risky to have no one know Chat's identity, not because he's not reliable but because no one would know if something happened to his civilian self. In my opinion he is presented to the audience as this mean, unfair adult that wants to ruin everything for the main characters and who is totally different to Fu who was the good guy but he actually has some valid concerns.
@@Luna-ny9fq Yah I agree with you. When you break down what they did, Su Han had much better ideas. The show wants to portray him as a bad guy, so they make him rude, impatient, and make what are good ideas on paper blow up miserably to say to the audience "see why we can't have that reveal we've been holding off for 4 seasons? Bet you feel really silly for wanting pay off or critiquing our show."
Like the whole "someone should know Chat Noir's identity thing" is a great idea and 100% fair. If Alya is Laydybug's backup, Nino, Luka, Kagami, or literally anyone could be Chat's back up. Hell, Su Han could just be the person who knows so Adrien isn't essentially all on his own. Instead of this, the suggestion is an awful idea and can't work, not because it's an actual bad idea, but purely because of a fault in Marinette. It's pretty silly and unfair to both Su Han and Adrien.
@@marinetteagreste561 SuHan is much better than Marinette by 1000 miles
It's interesting seeing how divided people are on Kuro Neko. I can see everyone's points on both sides and am a little conflicted myself. I don't think Marinette's actions were okay as depicted in the show (at least, until the finale when the writers kinda forced it in during her breakdown), but I also understand that she's literally a teenager who is under lots of pressure and responsibility.
I’m not a huge fan of the character of Ladybug because she pisses me off sometimes and Marinette too. But i can admit when she didn’t do anything wrong, especially the fact that Master Fu never truly helped her to manage her student life and her superhero life. Even when he lost his memory, in the letter he wrote he didn’t even try to give her advice when she needs to protect the most precious things that can DESTROY the world like bro ???
The problem now is that Ladybug/Marinette character didn’t grow. Through all the seasons 1-3 she never changed, and that’s the big problem. How can I have sympathy for a character that never gets consequences of her actions (especially her obsession with Adrien) and even HER FRIENDS doesn’t call her out for her weird behavior and found it funny when it’s not. People like to say that it’s just a show but that’s even worse it’s supposed to be a KID show in the first place. And I don’t want my little sister to found normal the act of getting in someone house and smell his belongings that’s WRONG. And when she did that she barely got any consequences for her action which is why I can’t fully like Marinette’s character. In EVERY episode her normal life is based on her obsession with Adrien which is annoying because she’s supposed to be more than that ! She have passions, a family she can spend time with or friends that she can spend time with. But her only occupation is Adrien and that’s annoying.
In the season 4 they tried to make Marinette change and that was a good point because even Alya started to become a very good friend in the beginning of this season.
Now if we talk about her role in ladybug sorry but for me she’s AWFUL. In the season 1-2 she was pretty good, but now I don’t like her behavior towards Cat Noir. She never includes him in her plans or even when Master Fu needed another miraculous why they NEVER need Cat Noir for the choice ??? The show is supposed to be focus on the two characters but it’s always Ladybug who makes the biggest choices. And that’s why I also blame Master Fu for that because he never called Cat Noir when he needed something. He knew after a long time that Ladybug already knew the identity of the other superhero (Rena Rouge, Carapace etc). Also I don’t understand why Ladybug don’t tell her trauma about Cat Blanc it could have been a meaningful moment where Cat Noir tried to reassure her, and told her that it would never happens. BUT NO, instead the writers prefer to let Cat Noir aside as usual and that’s BORING and ANNOYING. If he knew this it could have lead Cat Noir to change his attitude and to be more understanding towards Ladybug.
And that’s why imo Ladybug it’s not a real interesting character, she’s plain. I can’t even found a lot of adjectives to describe her because her normal life have a bigger impact on the show. It would have been MORE INTERESTING if we could have seen the point of view of Adrien/Cat Noir more often because the villain is literally HIS DAD. It could have been a better plot in my opinion because we already know everything about Marinette/Ladybug’s life. I will not talk about the season 5 because I didn’t finish it but the love square thing is awful. I still don’t even understand how Adrien fell in love with Marinette and how Ladybug fell in love with Cat Noir. 💀
I didn’t realize at fist that Cat Balnc would have so much influence on LB, cz in the end of Cat Blanc episode she was perfectly comfortable to meet up with Cat Noir and watch the sunset with him resting her head on his shoulder…
Marinette is my fav character, so of course I loved this video! 🌸
It was about time that others recognized that she, like the rest of the characters, is just a girl trying to understand or make sense of her life, and carrying so many responsibilities at once isn't easy to do. So it's very valid for her to make mistakes, only this way she can learn from them.
It's a shame that many don't care about her as they do with Adrien, and simply hate her too much. It seems unfair to me to see the fandom justifying the actions of others so blindly while she is treated this way. In the LatinAmerican fandom you can't even say that you like Maribug because they will criticize you, it's very annoying :/
will look forward to watching this video, i definitely think a 40 minute video defending maribug is very needed bc people just hate on her for no reason and a lot of that is misogyny. i think a lot of people just simply don't understand her character and water her down to her flaws and then complain that she has no flaws and that she's too perfect... honestly mari cannot win😭 i also wanted to say that her haters have got to stop bringing up actions that have already been dealt with in season 1-3, we are on our way to season 5 now let's move on please! u can't see a character's growth if u are constantly focusing on their flaws due to bias and judgement and in this way they are stunting the characters growths themselvesw, this fandom needs to be more open minded bc all they do is follow what everyone else says esp with excuses like "she's a creep/she's a stalker" when that's not true at all, her affection for adrien is exaggerated and oftentimes that's just for comedic effect, this is a kids show after all. this fandom takes small things like this too seriously it's annoying. sorry for the rant btw lmao
Actually, people hate her for a reason. They don't hate her just because.
THIS
thanks for saying this!! i heavily do agree with the suggestion that some of the hate for marinette is rooted in misogyny. like, when people call her 'mary (mari) sue'- the term 'mary sue' is being used nowadays in a way that has wandered far from its original meaning. usually, people jump to use it with (mostly) female competent characters which is unfortunate :/
Ugh, Luka never let Marinette know that he knew until waaaay after their breakup. It was literally during his last episode where that was revealed. So no, her breaking up with him was not because she knew it would put them both in jeopardy, since she didn’t know in the first place.
I really don't like any of the protagonists of this show. Both deserve to be condemned for their bad actions (Marinette stalks Adrien, Chat Noir can't let go of filrting with Ladybug, despite an her request), but some pepole exaggerate with hate. They can criticize the character, I do it myself, but let them have arguments.
To be fair though CN has had multiple instances where the show calls him out for being creepy
I get that Marinette has more to her than just being an over obsessed stalker and has a lot on her plate but what I don’t like is how the show never punishes her for her bad actions and makes Adrien seem unaffected by it all. She should at least learn that it is not okay instead pf the show just moving on to other things and giving people the impression that being like this is normal. That’s just my opinion and I do prefer how they take on her character in season 4 I just wish they addressed it.
CLARIFICATION: I meant in this post that she should get the chance to be redeemed for what she HAS done and stop getting punish for things that aren’t her fault (but to have a good story you need angst bla bla i get it but I still wish it was tackled differently.)
People justify her stalking as comedy. Example, when she wanted to break into Adrien's party and the fire officer help her. I think I might enjoy this part *IF* they change few details here and there. Not making it into a breaking and entering comedy. Breaking and entering is a crime, isn't it? Even if it's your classmate's house.
How about Nino then? He's breaking Alya's personal boundary and didn't get any sort of consequences for his action! At least let Alya take her time being away from Nino. They are old enough to date so they are old enough to learn that some behaviours are not acceptable and have consequences
@@Ao-vj9pz yeah like they could have Marinette be obsessed with Adrien in a way that wasn't *AS* creepy, like how Candace from Phineas and Ferb was very much in love with Jeremy but never broke into his house for "comedic effect".
Marinette should've gotten a consequence for attempting to watch what Adrien and Lila were doing in his room, i.e. Lila taking an embarrassing photo of her siting surrounded by trash cans and sending it to the class, but the story ignores this because Lila thinks it'd be "way too easy."
Marinette never being punished for her bad actions ? Are you sure ? Don't you think she's not being punished enough already ? She lost a potential romantic relationship with Luka in the first episode of season 4, she almost lost all of her friendships in Ladybug and Gang of secrets, Things are not going the way she wants with Adrien, Chloé is still bullying her and Lila is still fooling everyone around her. Marinette has so much responsabilities she can't even spend as much times with her parents as before and the girl is only 14.
But most importantly, Marinette is suffering from the Chat Blanc trauma. You know the time line where she saw her beloved partner driven crazy in a ruined world where he's all alone and all the people she loved died ? She saw her own corpse turn into dust ! She's suffering from nightmares and anxiety and had a legit and serious panic attack at the end of season 4. What more need to be done to her for people to finally deem that Marinette has been punished enough for her mistakes at the end of season 4 ? Does Maribug has to suffer more than she already did for fans to finally be satisfied ?
Had I been in her shoes I would have already turned depressed or bad
@@maellesaliou5871 i didn’t mean that kind of punishment. She gets punished for things that aren’t her fault but not for the things she does do. For example, her relationship with her family, Luka and her friends wasn’t almost tarnished (and in luka’s case they broke up) wasn’t because of any bad thing she does which is also infuriating because its not fair. I dont think anyone would say that Chat blanc was punishment for her stalking him. It was punishment for loving him and wanting to be in a relationship with him which shouldn’t be punished because that isn’t wrong. Its just the show doesn’t punish for the right things (and I get it lol you need the dramaaa and angstt) but dude I can’t stop watching it now I’m in too deep.
But I admit it is true what you are saying you aren’t wrong and I am sorry if I angered you in any way with what I said. I’m probably a bit bias because I have been stalked in my life but I know it doesn’t excuse it.
@@Nobasoba00 it’s not fair? So you think she should be punished even more than what she is right now? As the user above stated her punishment is as above. The constant looming thought of chat blanc happening and her loved ones dying. Have you ever had a traumatic event? Clearly not because you don’t know what it’s like.
This really makes me appreciate Marinette just wow
I agree
Thank youuu, I was hopeless bc everyone seemed to see only the bad on her. Everyone would just hate on her and love Adrien, which is unfair considering they both made mistakes but are good people after all
I needed this video, as I have been having a hard time getting back into Miraculous ladybug as well as seeing the good in this show with everything going on within it and out of it. This was able to make me see what I haven't been able to before because of how many critical videos there are on Marinette. One thing I did never understand was how those people would completely disregard how Marinette is a literal child. She has been through so much and it's just horrible to see her held up to a high standard.
I'm glad to see that your not bashing Marinette when not only being ladybug but also guardian. She has so much to deal with for a 14 year old.
Honestly I appreciate the detailed break down. With how often the show has big choices taken back and very minimal development- I honestly forget certain things actually happened without a reversal and they actually sometimes consider a characters past experience when writing. The shortcomings of the writing really tends to take away from understanding and enjoying the story.
I'm so glad you made this video I feel like this needed to be heard by the whole fandom. People don't seem to try to put themselves in her perspective and realize some problems in her writing. A common thing I hear from Mari haters is the stalking problem . I honestly think this is the mistake of the writers. It was unecessarily added to her crush and portrayed as cute when it isn't. They could've fixed this by giving her an arc where she realizes the behavior is unhealthy and drops it- a good message to kids to never do this. As well for the adrien obsession on the whole. But no- they amp it up especially in season 3 and Shanghai special. Imho it would've been better plot to have her travel to china with her uncle during summer to spend time with him and meet adrien by coincidence. They shouldn't have put that there if they weren't gonna execute it properly. Lots of ppl look only at the bad parts of her and ignore the good. If ppl can see the good in Chloe as being redeemable
why ignore the fact that Mari isn't perfect and tho she's stubborn, lacks control of emotions , clumsy and panicky at times, she's a kind-hearted leader, loves justice and smart. Her whole arc involves developing self-confidence and trying to gain some control over her complicated messy life.
Btw I recommend you guys watch Amanda Todhunter and cartoonhotspot video about the dark side of this fandom
I feel like the fandom has a disease called Adrienophillia. Well I also have it a bit but not much.
this is analysed so deeply, how does it not have more views?!
After watching this video, I thought of a quote Master Oogway said to Shifu: "One often meets his destiny on the roads he takes to avoid it." And that's exactly what happened, it will hopefully work out for the heroes in season 5
I know why Marinette was doing what she was doing, but I think she should have told Cat Noir about Cat Blanc. I mean he does have a right to know about it since it was his future too right?
Exactly then he would've definitely understand why his identity should remain a secret. And also ladybug wouldn't have to be so distance and sharing all the plans when Rena while leaving him out.
Its easy to say,but its more difficult than it seems,imagine her telling him that you destroyed paris And herself,chat noir will be devastated and heartbroken
i agree he deserves to know, and i hope she tells him next season. but i also understand why it might not be a good idea. after all, in the NY special cat *gave up his miraculous* due to crushing guilt after accidentally killing one person, even though the person was resurrected. if he knew he got akumatized and killed the entire world population, he….wouldn’t take it well.
We literally got 2 scenarios of what would happen if Mari ends up finding out his identity lol
the breakdown marinette had was scarily realistic and made me feel so heartbroken for hef
This has got to be my favorite episode from Season 4 after a roller coaster of other episodes.
I can't put everything into a detailed explanation, but something about the outcome of the finale felt insanely realistic. The ending, and the consequences too. Along with (personal opinion) Ladybug's character.
Not to mention, the panic attack honestly caught me off guard because I've had panic attacks like those and that felt real, I could sense the actual panic in her voice. I'm just so glad this finale played out well and overall I can't wait for the new Season 5 to be released.
Not saying all the Chat noir fans are toxic but like many people started hating Alya, that she "replaced him" even though she appeared for a few episodes and hated her even more when she defended herself against Chat noir in Scarabella. Like what did you expect, she was going to get cataclysmed and die if she didn't defend herself but few fans said that they would rather let her DIE than 'hurting' poor UwU chat noir.
The fandom does not treat everyone with the same standard, like you can have Marinette do one small mistake and they would BLOW UP but when it comes to Chat noir or Chloe, not a single thing. They would blame it on their backstories (they always made up their own version of Chloe's backstory). A backstory explains a person's actions but not necessarily always excuse them.
Like Chloe getting neglected by her mother is definitely sad but that doesn't mean she should lock up Sabrina in a closet with no light or water so she can do Chloe's homework for who knows how long and make her follow Chloe's car by foot without letting her in for who knows how long.
Check out reddit there is a guy who pointed out that fandom has a disease which is called Adrienophillia and Chloephillia. I mean it's a disease so we can't blame it on the fandom 😏😅
@@marinetteagreste561 I guess so?
tbh I feel like chole would like this even if her mom didn't neglected her cuz she just like her mom even tho she don't see her much 💀 there a huge chance she would be her if she grew up with her like many people see thier parents as thier role model
@@pinkyinroblox7256 true..
I think the main problem is the identity issue has been dragged out ad nauseum. Almost every lesson she learns is that open direct communication is the way to win. Tbh I think there'd be fewer Akumatization overall if her support network could actually be there in both of her lives.
THIS. THIS. This is amazing. I seriously love this video and I LOVE the way you analysed this. It was expertly explained and in an unbiased way, I wish the entire fandom was like you
I’m always shocked at why your videos aren’t viral. You give through and in depth explanations. Every time after watching ur video ur point is always super clear.
I will never watch this show but I can't stop watching people's hot takes on it. Between you and Cyrus The Great I'm getting the full range of opinions 😂
@Kiaznoir Hell yes! The owl house is amazing!
@@laneyyyyyyyyy Yeah. Thanks. But no thanks.
@Kiaznoir idk,but miraculous is definitely more popular than owl house
Bruh
@Kiaznoir fair point,In my opinion miraculous is better than owl house
I've never seen any mean comments about her having an anxiety attack, or how she trusted Felix. I don't like Marinette's character a significant amount, because she stalks Adrien and how she treats Chloe (with and without the bee miraculous involved). She mistreats Chloe a ton. She says aloud that she doesn't want Chat Noir rummaging around in her room, she recognizes this as a creepy thing, yet insists on doing it to Adrien, sabotaging his relationships with others from jealousy, memorizing his "personal private" schedule, and acting very disturbing in other manners of ways. _That's_ what people hate about Marinette. The rest is great, love all that, but this shouldn't be ignored either just because she's not _totally_ awful. If it weren't for her creepy stalker behavior or how she treated Chloe, I'd love her tons. But even stalkers and bullies get panic attacks.
Season 4 really REALLY began to bring back what we liked about miraculous. I’m tentatively hopeful going into season 5
Edit: ALSO a LOT of people forget that Alya was Marinette’s best friend BEFORE Chat Noir was her partner. Like, of course Alya is the best decision. I don’t get why people bash Alya so much. Alya had some mishaps, but like, they’re also all *teenagers*? I personally take more issue with the way the writers took seasons 2 and 3. But at least season 4 seems to be getting back on track.
Alya at the start wasn’t her best friend, it happened in the same day as Chat Noir
Perfect break down on Ladybug's motivations through Season 4! I've needed a break from the fandom because of all the Marinette hate or misinterpretation of her actions. Her actions make perfect sense if you remember she has intense trauma and a crazy amount of responsibility on her shoulders, and she's just FOURTEEN...
Im more than twice that age and I wouldn't be able to handle that. Add to that she has anxiety which causes her to feel the need to control everything, and it must get a little exhausting constantly having the Kwamis surrounding her when she never asked for that responsibility. And let's not forget, she will LOSE HER MEMORY of being the guardian, and probably of being Ladybug, if she fails as a Guardian and needs to give the miracle box back. She has so much at stake, including the fate of the entire world, in her shoulders. And people are mad because she pushed Chat away.
Why don't people ever blame Adrien for his character flaws this season? That led to the miraculous being stolen, as well! Adrien doesn't know how to be honest about his feelings - not the difficult ones, at least. Ladybug asks him point blank in Sentibubbler what was wrong. He was so upset that he punched a wall and put a crack in it. But he tells her he's fine. He spends so much time not talking about what's important, that it directly leads to why Ladybug trusted Felix in the first place - Felix was pretending to be Adrien at Adrien's request. Because Adrien could not, once again, be honest about his feelings. He couldn't confront his father. He needed his cousin to do it, to which Kagami rightly calls him out. EVERYONE believed Felix was Adrien, even Nathalie and his father. I can't even blame him for going that route, if makes sense for his character and he tries to correct it. But people never point out Adrien's mistake in all this.