Stephen A. & Bill Simmons debate MJ vs. LeBron as the NBA GOAT | First Take
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- Watch Part 1: • Bill Simmons compares ...
Bill Simmons joins First Take to debate Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman about whether Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James can catch Chicago Bulls legend Michael Jordan as the NBA GOAT.
#FirstTake #NBA
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I like how Bill Simmons has this calm, conversational tone like he does on his podcast, and Stephen A just goes to 11 on the speech volume.
Asithirteen
On everything.
Simmons said he would take Ray Allen & Steve Nash over Allen iverson so he is a bit ridiculous. Iverson beat Ray Allen in the playoffs in game 7 with the worse team. Steve Nash had 1000 times the talent around him also
Chris Sharp come on bro lol. it’s 2020 we all can look back at iverson and see what he was; one of the games best scorers, but not a winner.
I could listen to Bill talk basketball all day
Stephen A is disagreeing with Bill about what Bill said about himself lmao
Hahahaha typical Stephen A
Lmao
Lmao I was literally just about to comment that
😂 😂 😂
Watching this show is like having a song on repeat
Tiger Hoods. Facts
But it’s a good song though 😂
😂
it’s basically the same song but constant remixes being put out
Mustard on da beat
This whole goat thing is just draining at this point lol
@NonyaBusiness! no hes right, at this point in time I can spout every sports talking head argument about goat. Its been beaten to death and there are no new angles to develop a new take. If you wanna bring it up after lebron has most points and another championship fine, but at this point its been the same thing for the last 4 years
Stephen A's last words on his deathbed will be "LeBron" and Bill's will be "Brady"...
Right
Just appreciate the greatness people 🤦🏾♂️. LeBron not gonna play forever and is gonna be HEAVILY missed the day he retires so enjoy him we have him.
BamaBoii on god bro
Stephen A. Can't wait to interrupt folks!
Yet he's always quick to call someone out when they need to interject when he's making a god awful point
J w Exactly💯
Bill Simmons must feel like he’s speaking to 3rd graders lmao. I admire his patience
foh
@@rashadarnold9852 i mean ya dude not wrong tho
This is like seeing your teacher put the same question on 4 different tests..
The only reason this is even a question is because Ray and Kyrie hit those bailout 3's.
And because Jordan didn't play any good teams during the 2nd three peat
@@thsu8 and Jordan won 1 playoff game until Phil Jackson implemented the triangle offense. And why do people never bring up Steve Kerr's clutch shot in game 6
thsu8 the only reason this is even a question was because Jordan have pippen and Phil.
@@Lupe1106a faxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bill is far too much of a normal dude to have to put up with Stephen's theatrical BS
Bill is the absolute best conversationalist. I feel like I learn something about sports every time he talks.
I really hate SAS cuts people off while they’re not done making their point... but when he gets cut off...
Facts this is why undisputed is way better
“You didn’t worry about his insides?”.... woah Bill
😂😂😂😂😂
Fiyah 🔥🔥
⏸
That grown man really talked bout another man's guts. Smfh.
The killer instinct
Next Monday it'll be "What percentage do you give Lebron to pass MJ as GOAT"?
On Tuesday it'll be "If Lebron wins a ring with LA does that make him the GOAT"?
On Wednesday it'll be "Can Lebron surpass MJ as GOAT by the end of his career"?
On Thursday some random person will come on First Take and they'll ask them "Who is greatest basketball player of all time"?
On Friday it'll be another random person and they'll ask them "Do you think Lebron can pass MJ as GOAT this year if he wins a ring"?
The posts do get tiring haha
And you will watch every minute.
Deadass fr
😄 right
Thanks, really needed to know the variety this week.
first take: how can we change topics?
next week: lets ask ty lue if lebrons better than mj
how about they talk about how in 2000-2001 starter derek fisher got hurt for 62 games and la's third best player was a mediocre rick fox(who the year before avg. like 5 ppg) after they got rid of exel jones rice over the past 3 seasons weakening the wing and guard spots on the roster expecting kobe to grow to mvp level at an early age and the lakers were playing old man grant a washed brian shaw a washed ron harper and they had to sign a washed older isahai rider just to fill the spot as tye lue was young and devan george was young so they had no real wings off the bench or guards since horry was a pf and madsen was useless so was slava and foster so basically kobe could not sit cause he was their only real sg and one of two wings or reliable perimeter players on defense for them all year with no backup center really and how kobe did not complain just played the minutes and how that probably led to his injuries later on and fox as well being washed earlier than he should of been...no one mentions this...like bro that season's lakers team's 4th best player was some nights robert horry or instead was an old washed horrace grant and then the bench was trash probably rider was their 6th best player or harper some nights at his advanced tired legs and age...its terrible man...people want to pretend that lakers team was bad in the regular season but they had no bench at all and fisher was hurt....that team probably is overrated all time but that season they could of won 73 games and gone 15-1 in the playoffs...its one of the least talked about seasons but like I get it they had a big 2 but after that the roster was very mediocre like horry was meh that year 7 ppg for his minutes was bad same for grant in heavy minutes getting 6.5 for his age like fox was scoring a little but he played a lot of minutes so thats why he got stats he was still mostly the same player he was as a backup in 2000 just getting more chances...I get it they had shaq and kobe but people forget these things like that was a trash roster around them
@@razkable You go discuss that with yourself
Ty did play with MJ in MJs late 30s and was as good as Lebron’s peak.
I don’t understand why Lebron fans get mad when people rank him 2 to 10 lol that great company. To be top 10 in NBA history is a great achievement.
Exactly. So well said
New fans are weird.
Started with Kobe fans, who act like it’s a sin to not have him top 2-5 when being top 10 is a great accomplishment.
There’s a lot of great players in the league.
I do agree that’s unreasonable, but the pushback since this documentary dropped is that he’s not top 5. I personally think he’s behind Jordan and in a close race with Kareem for the two spot with Kareem edging him out because I still think LeBron needs another chip. That’s not unreasonable is it?
Stopping Bronsexuals Get a life man.
You could say the same thing about Jordan fans. Put Jordan anywhere other then number one and they flip out.
MJ took the game global. Nobody can surpass him in terms of cultural impact.
Facts
This sounds like a concession. MJ's peak is better than Lebron's.
@@4TheRightJAYZUSIsAVirtueSignal It's not though. Lebron's 2009 playoff run is far and way the peak of playoff basketball. Then, over their respective 10 year primes, they have an identical WS/48 of .260.
K x I’m confused. How is Lebron losing to Dwight Howard in the 2009 playoffs considered the peak of playoff basketball?
Kyle Kohler basketball is a team sport buddy one player can’t win a championship or beat a good team and don’t underrate prime Dwight and also to this comment if lebron was playing in the 80s and 90s instead of Jordan LBJ would’ve been the mj and you would say the same about him
Bill Simmons is so calm and reserved. I love it
Bill: we’ve overreacted each way ...
SAS: no we didn’t! and then proceeds to say: yes, we did it at the given time only!
SAS is a joke!
They actually got a competent person to "solve" and end this debate. Just listen to Bill, he knows baskeball as good as anyone out there.
LeBron fans make it seem winning a threepeat twice is easier than going to 8 straight Finals! 🤣 Shaq & Kobe got lucky to threepeat even once. Tim never even had a B2B. None of what MJ did was easy. He just made it look easy.
Exactly. LBJ fans think 8 straight finals with at least two all stars is more impressive than 6 titles with one all star in 8 years. Since the playoff format changed to 4 rounds in 1984 MJ is the only one to lead his team to two 3peats. Nobody has been close, Lakers only had one 3peat.
Agreed. I guess they think it must be hard to lose 6 finals lmao
Crazy thing was Shaq and Kobe could've won 4 straight if it wasn't for in fighting and the Pistons
Man MJ is the Goat no more said ✌🏾
@money Mark Cut it out SMH You're reaching lol
Wow, well said Bill Simmons. Good points by Max and Stephen A. Best segment I've seen regarding this annoying and never ending G.O.A.T debate/discussions. Thanks Bill Simmons.
Too smart and too honest for live tv
Bill up there talking like he on a podcast.
I feel like they always talk about this topic. It’s getting old already just my opinion though
Joseph Espitia 100%. The topic has been covered a million times
I enjoyed it. It even touched on KAJ, another candidate
Yeah and I'm a Lebron fan. It's enough. Let's wait and see if Lebron can win a few more titles. If he does that, then we can have this conversation again, but not now.
There's nothing else to talk about.
@Paweł Adamowski Nah, the conversation would just end. Once Lebron's done, the GOAT conversation pretty much dies.
"What could LeBron do to catch MJ?" Nothing. It's over.
100% facts
What Lebron can do is go back to 2011 and replay the next 8 years. Erase some of those loses.
@Ghost2000 This is the dumbest comment I've read in a while, and that's saying something.
Win 5 more rings.
Unless he wins 2 more mvps 2dpoys and more rings
They always make it seem like Jordan played only 6 season
thats their job, its pathetic
Bingo
Also factor in GS (Gm 7 Finals lead 2016) teaming up w prime KD to kill existence of competition
MJ IS THE GOAT LEBROOM JAMES IS ONE OF THE BEST THAT EVER PLAY THE GAME
Don’t act like MJ wasn’t ever swept
@@juniegyllenhaal3937 not in the finals... and never dropped 8pts🙄🙄
Junie Gyllenhaal He did when it wasn’t his turn but when it was his turn no one else won like in Bron era... but go ahead and make another excuse... I wait...
💯💯💯
@@juniegyllenhaal3937 not in the FINALS LEBROOM JAMES GOT SWEEP 2X THE FROZEN ONE
Yawns 🥱 Here we go again.
why is it so hard to say lebron is 2nd to mj when mj did more in less time with less star help on offense...pretty simple...like mj with another real scorer is insane to think about...
@@razkable It's not hard to say that if a person has any knowledge of nba history. These stupid mfers saying lbj is the greatest are on another level of ignorance. I get it, it's cool if lbj is your favorite player but there is absolutely zero evidence that brotha has had a more successful nba career than mj.
Never heard or seen this comparison before. Its great to see such original content. Absolutely brilliant.
😂
I made this comment on a similar clip. In the midst of their second three-peat, I remember the Bulls eliminating the Miami Heat. During the post game press conference Pat Riley, referring to Jordan, said "no one's winning anything until that guy retires." He wasn’t speaking in jest. When discussing greatness and dominance, it's not just about stats. That's not to say stats aren't significant, but they seldom tell a whole story. LeBron is transcendent. With my generational inclination (grew up a Knicks fan in the 80s and 90s watching the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons and Pacers) I didn't like the whole Miami Heat move, and like many others, I threw shade at LeBron. Eventually, LeBron's greatness would be overwhelming. I couldn't deny the logic. He had a lot of miles but didn't seem to be fading. Prior to Covid-19, LeBron was an MVP front runner in his 17th season, unheard of. However, LeBron was never an impenetrable barrier to other stars getting rings the way MJ was. Drexler, KJ, Barkley, Payton, Kemp, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, all couldn't get through the mountain with 23 on its back. "No one's winning anything until this guy retires." Olajuwon snatched a ring during Jordan's retirement and another during a season where he wasn't quite back to form. LeBron is great, but he was beaten, beaten by Nowitzki, beaten by Duncan (those 2017 and 2018 don't count. He faced an all-star team for crying out loud). This debate is largely generational. If you weren’t there it’s almost impossible to imagine.
Everything you just said is still absolutely accurate.
Bill Simmons has this podcast called The Rewatchables. If you compare MJ vs LeBron just by the eye test, MJ is box office. He's just more exciting to watch. His story is better. MJ's game has endured because he's rewatchable.
He's more watchable because he's a more skilled player, with more weapons in his offensive and defensive arsenal.
I wanna play 2k now just hearing that voice
That so well said .. underrated
“Lost 6 championships” MJ played 15 years and didn’t win the title 9 of them. The amount of ppl hold Finals Ls against ppl more then losses in 1st/2nd/3rd round before Finals is mind boggling.
Because it wasn't 15 full seasons. It was 13. 1 was injured and one was the comeback playing 17 games. Them are not seasons. Those are games not seasons.
@@anthonyfreeman8329 he the opportunity to make and play in 15 playoffs
85-93, 95-98 and 02/03. He didn’t make the finals (nevermind win the🏆) in 9/15 seasons period! He played in playoffs 13 times and missed playoffs on wizards (bulls also made playoffs going 30-52 or 32-50).
I love MJ he’s my Co GOAT and I’ve seen him live center court row 10 50+ times since mid 80s, but nothing I said is false.
Barkley being interviewed during "the last dance" made a statement regarding MJ during the '93 Finals regarding Jordan with championships at stake: "Michael (from '91 on) had the ability not to let his team lose"! In the Finals, Jordan had an invincibility about him that no other player has had since!
all of jordans finals opponents sucked, none of them was ever good enough to dominate the western conference the way the bulls did the east. Besides the jazz none of them made it out of the west more than once, really shows how mediocre these finals teams were
@@Enoughsenoughnomas Lakers were the first opponent and they won 5 Championships in the 80's! Ur a clown!
Quite refreshing to hear somebody else for a change that even though he feels Jordan is No 1 he brings another angle because he removes emotion out of it unlike SAS. He brought up a different comparison with Kareem. LeBron could win the next 3 and SAS wouldn’t budge. Bring Simmons on more. 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
"Experts" on Basketball
My god "This is getting old" "This is all they talk about". Man..... there is nothing else to talk about that is relevant.... Get over it or don't watch. The Era of complaining is real people.
Bill Simmons on espn again?? Never thought I see the day he be on espn again
Jordan we still talking about this???
its not jordan
@@dpok5302 are you high talk to me when lebron three peat
Because Ray and Kyrie hit those bailout 3's, yes we're still talking about this. Blame them. And Steph Curry choking like a dog in Game 7.
Bill is literally just chilling talking and Stephen A immediately starts screaming and bill is just like”yeah... rightl
SAS hardly lets anyone finish a single thought man that’s annoying
That’s why I don’t like max on this show we need Jalen Rose,will Cain,or even Lavar ball to stand to him
*To quote Michael Jordan:*
*"Stop it! Get some Help!"*
I see Bill Simmons I click like
Curious if they will have a Sports Media today vs Sports Media of yesterday...who's better?
This guy has 6 LOSSES in the FINALS their is NO DEBATE
Never was
Lebron should have 8 losses, when you really think about it.
Rings doesn’t determine who is better. Rings are a team achievement. Lebron James is the best basketball player the world has ever seen. It’s just natural evolution of sports and athletes. There will eventually come someone who surpasses Lebron.
Uchiha Joel lmaoooooooo
@Uchiha Joel so if you're boyfriend Lebron, went 0 for 10 in the finals it wouldn't matter? Dude please stop embarrassing yourself, and stfu!
Nobody ever mentions that Kareem missed the playoffs for 3 straight seasons in his prime smh
chosenjuan025 He had overwhelming numbers and 6 chips with 6 mvps. 3 times missing playoffs in a row don’t really matter it’s note even a foot ote
@@juanio7036 This was after his first 🏆 with the Big-O and before joining Magic's Lakers
chosenjuan025 Kareem didn’t miss it... The LAKERS did.
Definitely
They also forget to mention he only won 2 finals mvps and only one of those was with the Lakers. Not only that, but he never lead the Lakers, that was Magic. There's a reason the Lakers were referred as Magic's Lakers. Lets also add that he played his entire career with no defensive 3 sec violation and half of his career with no 3pt line.
Bill Simmons: WOAH!!!!
Only a few will Get this
MJ is the goat and its not just about the rings, its how he walk through all those challenges to get to the top making no excuses, thats GREATNESS
lmao. So using no facts. U lose.
@@jrsmith1998 Jordan is the juggernaut after beating those teams to become the best. Lebron still trying to beat the juggernaut teams. Facts. U lose
all of jordans finals opponents sucked, none of them was ever good enough to dominate the western conference the way the bulls did the east. Besides the jazz none of them made it out of the west more than once, really shows how mediocre these finals teams were
@@Enoughsenoughnomas u can't comment on how teams were in 90s when you were probably born in the 2000s. Because you don't know
Lol bill simmons being a normal person having a discussion and Stephen A brings the energy to 1,000 immediately
Not a Lebron Fan but that’s one thing they’ll use against him when saying he the GOAT is that he lost 6 championships I tell all Lebron fans the same thing
Should that... not be used? Especially if we're talking about comparing him to a guy who Did Not Lose championships? This "debate" need to stop at this point. Fr
Black uncle tom I mean Bull for white couples yea and no. MJ exposed himself on the last episode. His “toughest competition was the Indiana Pacers” lmao. MJ had the greatest team assembled and the greatest coach of all time are 6-0! Phil literally left and went to 7 more finals. Idk man how great is Jordan really? Could not even reach the finals until he was 27: Lebron reached the finals at 22. They maybe closer than we think.
Nah, it's not just the 6 losses, it's the flopping, crying, team hopping, not wanting real competition, & giving up. I watched lebron run from going head to head w/kobe...& we won't even talk about the peds
@@4TheRightJAYZUSIsAVirtueSignal true. I mean you cant compare someone who lost championships to someone who didnt.
Mj is 6 for 6. I mean mj only played 6 seasons right?
Not really a valid argument. The nba fanbase is the only fanbase who penalize someone for losing in the finals instead of getting knocked out early. Guess why? Cause it's the only thing they have that puts jordan over lebron
neimi911 it’s not enough to just get to the Finals, it’s what you do when you’re there. Lebron is a great player, but there are so many moments throughout his career that made me look at question whether or not his greatness was equal to or greater than MJ’s. Jordan never had a Finals performance equal to Lebron’s performance against the Mavs in 2011. Yeah, Lebron was young-ish (26) but still.
If LeBron get a three-peat starting now I will put him in the conversation as goat.
@Marcio haven 😂👍 I see what you did there.
If lebrun gets a 3 peat i think he would not only be the goat but the distance from Him to Jordan would but a country Mile. LeBron has been the league 17 years with 9 finals appearances sole based on his leadership. If he does 3 more finals then he would have led his team to the finals 12 out of 20 years. That is bonkers win or loose. I think the biggest problem with the comparison its jaded because the only thing we are allowed to do is compare the two based on finals when In actuality they should be compared or a career standpoint and the road they endured. There is not one team Jordan faced in the finals that would have beat any team Lebron lost to in the finals. Dallas was the worst team and I just don't see The Suns beating them in the Finals.
No one brings up AD in any of this. AD is the real reason the Lakers have the record they do. He leads them in 4 categories including scoring. If Lebron wins another three chips, he will have had another top 3 player in the league to help him do so... again! That will always count against him. When Pippen was alongside MJ, Pippen wasn’t even given top 10 mentions. Go back and see. I can name atleast 10 other guys that were better than Pippen. Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Hakeem, Dominique, Robinson, Mullin, Mourning, Drexler, Penny, Shaq, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Gary Payton, Grant Hill. I can name a few more that were better than Pippen or ranked better than throughout the 90s. Lebron simply will never shake that fact down. Its a wrap!
@@wehireblackmen5919 To go to the finals is not a accomplishement and if Lebron wins 11 titles, he still won't be better than Jordan. Jordan was considered the best player of all time even before he won his first championship and yes, Jordan beat tougher opponent than Lebron in the finals too. You just seem very ignorant. That Dallas team was not hard to beat...Lebron just sucks under pressure...
@Kenneth Erickson Thank you. And it's not like they're on the same level individually anyway. Titles are a tie-breaker when 2 players are close. When a players is significantly better...he's just better. That's why Jordan was crowned best player of all time even before he won a title. But titles make sense for Lebron and KD for example.
And yet here we are still watching..
Bill’s demeanor is how you control a loud mouth.
Bill Simmons called the Warriors “America’s Team”
I guarantee the majority of this country hates the Warriors lol
Pre-durant they were
The same way they hate the Cowboys 🤠 😂😂🤣
they only hated the warriors because durant joined and ruined the league for 3 years. I bet more people hate on the nets now, they have 2 top 5 hateable NBA stars.
@@classyguy69 yeah, but since Durant suffered a possible career altering injury, and kyrie has been injured for most of the season, they've gotten some sympathy so they aren't quite as hated right now.
They were hated regardless of Durant due to that donkey Draymond who acts like he's a Hall of Famer for putting up triple singles.
It's literally two completely different tracks at this point. No one has been as good as LeBron for as long as LeBron, on one hand, but no one has ever been as good as Jordan, period. No one could ever do what Jordan did in the fashion that Jordan did it. Actual players have done what LeBron did, and they're all on that mountain. But none of them did it as long as LeBron did it.
It's literally two different measuring sticks.
The Talk and arguments on WHO IS THE GOAT had been on going back and forth for the last couple of years. In my opinion in order to settle this issue, well make voth of them GOATS!!!🐐
If LeBron is a goat, JJ Barrea and Jason Terry must be gods lol
Bill having a normal rational conversation, Stephen A “so I took that personal”
I just dc bout this debate anymore can we not just like both players. Imagine Curry Jordan LBJ KD Hakeem vs Magic Kobe Bird Duncan Shaq. That’s what a match up I wish we could’ve had. Made the lineups as balanced as possible.Who dy think will win?
Any MJ team. MJ was beating Teams with multiple NBA all-stars as a college player with college teammates. No other player EVER have done that before nor since.
This simmons guy is so calm that if you poke his eyes he ain't feel a thing.. and makes the joke on you!!
it's logical for a good player to get more points, rebounds, assists etc if he is playing longer than others...you should consider the years it took a player to achieve such greatness...
True but how high of a level that player is playing at is the discussion. No player in history has had the longevity LeBron has had.
He been in the “best player in the world” arguments for 10+ years now.
@@sanantoballa4834 best player in the world? I will rather pick kevin durant for that in toda's nba...being the best player in the world doesn't mean you're the greatest player of all time..
This argument is getting old but im still watching all the videos💀💀
If Kobe is Jordan 2.0, how are 7 or 8 players who aren’t replicas of Jordan in front of Kobe?
I think a Prime Kobe would only lose to a Prime MJ if both teams are equal. If that is true, then it’s
1. MJ
2. Kobe
Yes. This needs to be said more often.
PREACH
6-22 Kobe's career head 2 head matchup with da Kang😂😂
When the goat Jordan says nobody could beat him one on one except Kobe, that's the ultimate compliment........better than any ESPN "ranking" that came from writers that watch basketball but never played LOL
@@ozz7602 that a team record stupid everytime lebron try to 1 on 1 on Kobe lebron got destroy by Kobe so clearly Kobe>lebron easily
Larry Bird is the real goat
And crack isn't a drug
You smokin peepee
And the corona virus 🦠 will be gone by April.
Simmons is absolutely correct, it's TWO different arguments: 1) The best career ever 2) The best player ever
Make no mistake, assuming LeBron James stays healthy for another 4-5 years, his overall career will be unmatched: 40,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists, 2,000 steals, 1,000 blocks, 2,500 threes, 3 MVPs (should be 6), at least 10 Finals (and at least 4 rings), a championship with 3 different franchises, all the All-Star/All-NBA teams, and all the playoff statistical records as well.
When it comes to being the best player at the peak of their careers, Michael Jordan is certainly the GOAT. The tenacity, the will the win, the ability to score whenever and however, maybe the greatest 2-guard defender ever, the championships without ever losing in the Finals, the only player to ever average 30 PPG for a career.
At the end of the day, does it matter? To have the best career or be the best player are each GOAT status achievements that we should all be glad we got to watch.
LeBron won 4 MVPs, and Wilt also averaged 30 ppg.
2:02
I don’t get that argument about finals losses... First round exit, conference finals exit, finals exit... it’s still a playoff run elimination. Jordan was 6/13, Magic was 5/13, Kareem was 6/18, Lebron is 3/13 in playoff runs. Imo Playoff eliminations and finals losses are one in the same, and they don’t diminish the greatness of any of those players.
No they aren’t lol. One is the biggest stage; the others aren’t. It’s not just that lebron’s teams lost in the finals; its that several times there were players who outperformed him in the finals. Jordan NEVER got outplayed by anyone on any team for an entire finals series.
The postseason is still the postseason, call it what you want, thinking that a loss in the finals vs a loss in the first round are two different things is like the Skip Bayless “he wanted it more” argument, a fallacy. Point is, finals losses are not detrimental to a players legacy. If you wanna talk about finals performances, LeBron is a career 28.2 ppg, 7.7 apg and 10 rpg. The top spot still belongs to MJ, but imo it’s not impossible to believe LeBron has a chance to be considered the greatest when his career is over, should he pass Kareem on the all-time scoring list and bring titles to LA.
Le3-6 traded 42 players off of his teams in Maimi, Clevleand, and LA, since 2010. 42!!!!!!!! so that he can play next to multiple allstars and MVP candidates to win rings. STOP c comparisons with Jordan.
Lebron had to trade players they were creating superb team's to beat him, celtibs and warriors for example. Don't be blind to why he did what he did
@@ljbrownedu Lebron cant win against aging dallas and spurs despite being on the superteam. So no, lebron is not the goat. If he won against dallas or the spurs and has 3 peated then maybe there is argument.
Spurs had 4 hall of famers, yes Dallas was a bad loss but that Dallas team beat LA and Kobe as well in the same playoffs
@@ljbrownedu LOL, so you were saying that Duncan at 37 and ginobili at 36 is better than bosh and wade? also you were saying that Kawhi at 22 is better than 29 yo lebron? That loss to the Dallas and spurs are both bad which will haunt lebron's legacy in every GOAT conversation.
Ghost2000 MJ pretty much did play with those two players. None of the point guards were all that great. Bj armstrong, Paxton and Harper. What’s your point?
Played way longer not at a higher level and lost alot more when it counted.
Sound quality is always jakkd up
ESPN should be kicking themselves for letting Bill Simmons go. GOAT of NBA analysts
That guy said it best , Mj was winning when their weren’t any other good teams or players til Kobe . Lebron will go down as the greatest because he beat greater teams while Jordan was getting swepted by them and not getting to the finals til the good teams got all washed up and retired
Lebron was on the greatest team in Miami from 2011-2015 and he managed to get only 2 titles. Beaten by aging dallas and spurs. MJ has beaten more 60+ win teams than Lebron. So you saying there werent good teams is not logical.
Someone speaking the truth
King James they can't handle the truth LeBron James is the 🐐 more than a athlete .
🐐 James
Stephen a smith married to Michael Jordan
Ajizzy rambo 🤣🤣🤣
On god
🤣🤣🤣
Idc if this is being discussed again cause Bill Simmons is on. I love this guy lol
Imagine MJ teaming up with Bird,Magic,Barkley,Isiah,Hakeem etc. He would go 82-0 every year and then NEVER lose in the finals. OH WAIT HE NEVER DID LOSE A FINALS AND NEVER HAD TO TEAM UP WITH OTHER TOP 5 TALENTS. MJ BUILT all his guys up to a championship level!!! Had the guys go with him at 5am practices (eg. Pippen, Harper), and went at them in practice forcing them to improve!
Jordan never played against the 2 greatest shooters of all time in the finla
Lol, look up unrestricted free agency. Jordan "stayed" with the bulls because he had to, lol. For the majority of the history of basketball there was no such thing as un restricted free agency. He couldnt have left even if he wanted to. UFR didnt start til like 89 and even then you had to have been in the league like 7 years and had 2 contracts. Players previously were never allowed to team up. The teams owned you. You think no players before the 08 Celtics ever wanted to team up. You think all those HOFers who were getting killed by the celtics in the 60, 70s didnt want help? Yea all those players just stuck with their team out of loyalty.
Jordan is Goat, but people need to stop the, he stuck around out of some loyalty to the bulls or some grand desire to make it to the top with no help. No, he struck around because he had to, just kind most every other player in the History of Basketball.
Mic drop:
During Jordan's career, there was NEVER a debate as to who the best in the league was. You could make a case thar Lebron's status as leagues has been questioned and debated heavily over the years. Steph? KD? Kobe? Kawhi? Over the last few years, is LBJ really the undisputed best in the league? It's MJ, Brady, The Great One, and Babe Ruth and then there's everyone else...
Let's stop the madness.
You would be crazy to not say Lebron is the best. The only reason people say someone is better is because of how great Lebron is and people are tired of it, like when MJ lost the MVP to Malone.
To Austin Clubb and Tong Zou:
6 rings.
He does everything Lebron can do.
Better defender.
Better leader despite his abrasiveness.
Just as good a 3pt shooter.
And the media has compared LBJ to everyone else. That is my point. Not saying James isn't great. But the mere fact that there is debate and banter about his status proves my point. There was NEVER a banter, debate, or conversation about who was the best during Mike's run.
Respectfully,
DD
Austin Clubb that’s quite an unfair generalization, it’s no where near fact, it’s simply preference of criteria. I don’t have lebron as the goat. I see better than I can read. And my eyes tell me to go with Jordan.
So if we’re going head to head in a series, with these two respective players, is it really foolery to believe you can win with MJ over lebron?
I
That’s where I’m confused , you’re are making it seem as if there’s no conversation to be had. Which is disturbing to read. And it’s quite disrespectful to what He’s accomplished.
Personally I think he would devour lebron mentally.
Forget clutch, Jordan was indeed a gangster on the court. Lebron is the family man. This doesn’t end well
@@magnaalexander89
Thanks for backing me up Alexander. Fortunately I am of the age where I saw both careers. And btw...if Ray Allen doesn't hit that shot in the finals we could be talking Lebron with 7 finals losses.
David Dale he absolutely could, and I think people his ability because he hasn’t done some of things MJ has.
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Mike has two game winners in the finals. And one closes out the series. Bron doesn’t have that. And allen and Irving hit the memorable shots in pivotal moments.
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Also 2011, I bring this moment up because it’s clear Bron is phenomenon like no other physically. And they speak of his ability to also affect the game in more aspect than Mj.
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But why in 2011 was he not able to impact the game through blocks , steals, boards, setting picks, drawing offensive fouls.
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Tell Mj he can’t score and that if he does his team will lose two points each time. I bet he finds every other avenue to a win regardless if he can shoot or not.
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2015 at home game 4 of the finals , Mozgov outscores him. They win that game, it’s over.
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2018 just game 1, why does he not shoot the ball? 19/32 from the line , 3/7 from 3, 10/11 from the line. The fact that he didn’t is baffling to me. He’s earned the right , yet doesn’t truly believe in his own power. G. Hill is being pulled down before the pass begins to leave Brons hands.
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Let’s look at what happens next, why is he not attempting to get the board to put the ball back up after Hill is fouled. Clearly he is a better Choice than Jr. and it’s a one possession game.. these are questions I have.
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Among other years such as 09’ and 10’
The White Shadow Picture on the wall, behind Bill Simmons... Remember that show?
Simmons pretty much owned a table that has SAS and Max Kellerman, impressive
Please stop this ridiculousness. Anyone who's using reason over emotion *knows* its MJ. Stop it.
lebrons 5 best teammates now can form an all nba 1st or 2nd team lol bosh love kyrie wade davis ...mj's best 5 teammates are woolridge rodman grant pippen toni (maybe 93 b.j.) ...the best guard he played with is 1993 b.j. or 1996 harper or 1991 finals paxon...think about that...and the best big he played with is grant on offense rodman on d and woolridge overall ...its not even close...think about this wade kyrie or bj lol ...love or bosh vs rodman grant woolridge....maybe oakley if you stretch it but like bro the best other player pippen vs wade or davis?..no contest
Asmosis Jones Now put up their opposition...The league is better than its ever been, that’s just evolution.
There the greatest of there eras why can’t we just except that lol
*accept
They’re *
To be honest, that's debatable too. I know there are many fans who put Kobe ahead of Lebron. So there's that.
@@gregoryharlston0602 i love Kobe but objectively Lebron is a better player
@@gregoryharlston0602 not in the 10s tho
They are talking about MJ vs LeBron, but i don't think LeBron even pass the Magic. LeBron 17 seasons 9 finals 3 championships 3 finals MVP's 4 league MVP's, Magic 12 seasons 9 finals 5 championships 3 finals MVP's 3 league MVP's.
Stat-wise LeBron has passed Magic long ago haha but Magic came into the league with all-time great help, LeBron had to find his own help because Cavs front office was incompetent.
Bill Simmons is great, they should bring him on more for basketball topics
I feel like Mj and Bron are in a tier of their own and they shouldn’t be debated because it’s just killing the greatness they put on
LeBron would have cried if the Pistons did the Lebron Rules to him.
You're right! he dropped the last 28 out of 29 points on them to get to the nba finals at 22.
Bill is The difference between arguing with logic, and arguing just to talk
Bill Simmons needs to be on ESPN more
Bill Simmons should be on this show daily. He put more insight and images to these conversations than Stephen A Smith and Max. They really don’t be saying anything tbh
If yall think this convo getting old go watch during my time with the Chicago Tribune Skip Bayless and Goat James Shannon Sharpe
Whoa. Bill is just a master at Basketball debate. Even 3 years later which is when I’m watching this.
Stephen A lets put it this way you are not forced people to select lebron same like you cannot forced people to select jordan. It' s that simple. Your judgement is with yourself only not to all of us. Respect both players
Nobody ate on Mike s watch . Everyone is eating on Lebron s watch
Do you mean the players MJ faced or the players on his own team?
Yeah cause winning six championships is not eating
What does that even mean? MJ played 13 seasons. What Happened to the other 7 seasons?
The other matthew only Grant was not eating on the plane 😆.
Terence Asongwed MJ watch started with his first championship and nobody won after he won while playing. The same with lebron his watch started with his 1st.
To surpass Jordan the next player has to win 4 in a row. Period.
And go undefeated in the finals
he has to win 7 championships dominate his era and make sure others dont eat off his run!
And be more dominant individually than Jodan as well. Jordan was considered the goat even before he won a ring.
Bill Simmons on ESPN again?? Am I dreaming??
I think Kareem gets slighted in the GOAT argument. He's basically the best college player ever on a lot of lists. Six time MVP, all time leading scorer, 5600 plus assists and would easily be all time in blocks if they counted the stat his first four seasons in the league. I think he's the third all time greatest player and a lot of people don't look at him like that.
I do! My list is
1. MJ
2. LBJ
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
@@KyleJBales Top 3 I agree with but Shaq? I don't even think Shaq was better than Olajuwon
If Lebron James wins a championship, as the best player on the team AFTER this contract, that would be a very strong argument for LBJ. Bill makes a good argument. Is the GOAT peak player in peak season, or the whole body of work?
Same argument with Brady vs. Montana. Brady obviously the better stats and longer career (due to QB protection) but Montana won 4 SB’s faster than Brady and dominated in a way Brady hasn’t. So Montana’s peak was higher.
@@ericlind6581 good comparison
Mj beats lebron in the career arguments too....
Nice seeing the podfather here
Bill Simmons can not keep an argument straight-on, he just starts talking about everything
"Why do we discuss the 🐐? Why?" -Dennis Rodman
Enough of this LeBron vs Jordan debate
Compare real GOATs
Alex Caruso vs Brian Scalabrine
Mark Madison vs Brian Scalabrine
@@michaelg3414 Madsen kid,
Agreed, I mean he did carry Kobe and Shaq to a 3peat. 😂
Correction 2x NBA champ
We want more bill simmons
There are a lot great players, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russel, Kareeb, Magic, Lary Bird, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen, Robinson, Ewing, Isiah Thomas, Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, KD and the list goes on and on! There is only one MJ!!!
Case been closed since 2016 Bill Lebron is the 🐐
Went to the finals in 07 with no other all star on his team something Jordan couldn’t do so that offsets 2011 try again
@Stopping Bronsexuals He missed playoffs because he was injured and the team was injured lol an incomplete team won't get too far. Lakers were 4 seed when the team was healthy. He plays a full season this year and what seed is he?
@@scotty776 false narrative my guy, when he got back they were ONLY 2 GAMES OUT OF THE 8TH SPOT and they went on to have a TERRIBLE record for the rest of the year WITH LeBron. Stop acting like he missed the whole year and didnt ruin the morale once all those trade rumors started
@asap Jordan won two rings with zero all stars on his team