LeBron becomes first player to score 40K points, adds to GOAT debate | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
- LeBron James becomes the first player to score 40K points. Nick Wright, Chris Broussard and Kevin Wildes discuss this new milestone and how much this weighs into the ongoing GOAT debate between LeBron and Michael Jordan.
#FirstThingsFirst #NBA #LeBronJames
SUBSCRIBE to get the latest from First Things First: foxs.pt/SubscribeFIRSTTHINGSFIRST
The all-new FOX Sports App, built for the modern sports fan: tinyurl.com/y4uouolb
►Watch the latest content from First Things First: foxs.pt/LatestOnFIRSTTHINGSFIRST
▶ The Carton Show's CZcams channel: sprtspod.fox/SubscribeCartonShow
▶ The Herd with Colin Cowherd’s CZcams channel: foxs.pt/SubscribeTHEHERD
► UNDISPUTED’s CZcams channel: foxs.pt/SubscribeUNDISPUTED
► Speak's CZcams channel: sprtspod.fox/SUBSCRIBEtoSpeak
► The Skip Bayless Show CZcams channel: sprtspod.fox/SUBSCRIBESkipShow
► What's Wright? with Nick Wright CZcams channel: sprtspod.fox/whatswright/youtube
See more from First Things First: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTFoxSports
Like First Things First on Facebook: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTFacebook
Follow First Things First on Twitter: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTTwitter
Follow First Things First on Instagram: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTInstagram
Follow Nick Wright on Twitter: foxs.pt/NickWrightTwitter
Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: / chris_broussard
Follow Kevin Wildes on Twitter: foxs.pt/KevinWildesTwitter
About First Things First:
Nick Wright, Chris Broussard, and Kevin Wildes team up on First Things First. The trio offers their take on a bevy of sports stories alongside special guests from across the sports world.
LeBron becomes first player to score 40K points, adds to GOAT debate | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
• LeBron becomes first p...
First Things First
/ firstthingsfirst - Sport
Watch Number One College Football Show with RJ Young: rb.gy/f7wqkb
Nick your a nut man
Brussard so we Punishing lebron for choosing to keep playing, for remaining healthy & for investing his money & work ethics to basketball?? Or does it only apply to us punishing michael for choosing to retiring, for choosing not to win those 8 rings you claim?
LeBron needed to build superteams to win any Championships. Jordan didn't. Thats the difference. MJ GOAT!
@@medved4030 what MJ do before Pip and Rodman? Yeah I didn't think so.
@@medved4030
Jordan: 6x All NBA teammates, 9x All Defensive teammates, 6x teammates that made All NBA and All Defensive team in the same season for his career.
Lebron: 5x All NBA teammates, 2x All Defensive teammates, 1x teammate that made All NBA and All Defensive team in the same season for his career.
This isn’t counting finals competition in comparison lol
Omg seeing you guys again is like seeing my dad actually come back with the milk 🥛
But he didn't, so how do you know?
Lmaoooo
yours came back?
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
We need to bring Title Pie Back
i know its coming this week or next week
Why? So he can say the lakers have the best chance even tho their the 10th seed
@@legacymindset9284 he wasn’t wrong last year
Can we get a GOAT pie segment? All sports. GOAT of all GOATS. Brady gets a portion, Mahomes, Lebron, Jordan etc.
Maybe steroid pie? 🤷♂️
Only missing 39 games in your first 10 years is insane.
Who’s that Andre miller ??
We're taking LEBRON for granted
NO, outside of serious injuries and a partial retirement... missing only 7 ( I REPEAT 7) games in 13 season is insane. While playing ALL 82 games at 39 is insane.
And if it wasn't for his groin injury in 2019 he'd have beaten Kareem's record a year earlier.
He also only played 82 games once
Did Brou jusy say "at 22, he doesn't know"?😂
For real, that was absolutely asinine. Ain't no way he's proud of that lol
He's in denial
Brou is letting his emotions and ball suckin get in the way of his logic made no sense
Who doesn't know
I would pay good money to see Nick take this argument to Stephen A.
Nick will cook him as well, SAS always dismisses people's argument when he's losing ground without making a more compelling case
I’ve been watching nick making his labron argument for like 6 years haven’t seen him lost a debate yet
Brou is 25X times smarter than screamin A. It would be a slaughter
I would love to see Nick make an adult argument then get yelled at nonsensically for 10 minutes. Great television
Nick argument is terrible but he would crush SAS 😂
Brou is so wary of Nick’s wizardry he let out the loud “NO” to prevent the damage
Nick was killing em!!! Nobody argues for lebron better than Shannon and Nick wright!!! Hella good points tho. I didn’t know lebron was the first to so many points
You guys are morons if you think nick was killing him 😂 nick was so flustered and grasping at straws he couldn’t see straight hahah gtfoh
As opposed to Nick saying anything he can to put down Jordan! His opinion is tainted!
Of course he is the youngest, he started at 18. We should go with how many games it took to reach milestones.
@@marcusarmijo0824Jordan fans do it to LeBron Everytime also it's not one sided...
Did this man, just say, the 2007 cavaliers was a better team...
I think he did. I laughed so hard my rib cage hurts. And I’m an old head. The ‘90s bulls were known as the unstoppabulls.
i just rememebr the spurs absolutely humiliating the cavs in that finals and sweep.. even tony park outscored lebron lmao
Bru was talking about lebrons 2007 cavs vs Jordan’s 1984 bulls which is yes the cavs were better than the 84 bulls
@@famohsenthis very well may be true. You could argue Rookie 22 Jordan was better than 2007 22 Lebron.
@@perspectivlogxlakers-fando4423he was comparing the bulls in the 80s
The 22 question was golden
That 22 question had Brou stuck. 😂
It was a dumb question 😂I’d have been stuck too, like “is this guy joking or is he that stupid?”
@@xxtopgunxx8764it’s not stupid. What was stupid is Broussard trying to dismiss longevity completely for the GOAT debate. Probably because in the past, longevity just meant you were a shell of your former self being a role player somewhere like Vince Carter or Paul Pierce. But LeBron has shattered that mold and at 39 is still one of the best players in the NBA. The only reason that question doesn’t matter to you guys is because it favors LeBron.
@@skillethead15 Brou never dismissed longevity, that’s why he has him 2nd all time. He said peak was more important. And MJs peak dwarfs Lebrons, MJs best years vs Lebrons best years. Nick was trying to pick an age or a stretch of games that benefited Lebron, he never even mentioned a single season, other than MJs rookie season. That’s because, MJs best season statistically beats any season lebron played. He actually has multiple seasons like that. But Nick only focused on age, or a 27 game stretch to make Lebron seem better. That’s not how that works.
@@skillethead15 Longevity doesn’t trump winning. Everyone knows Lebron has the stats to be the GOAT. But he needed to win more. Now it’s too late. You can’t make up the winning deficit with longevity. And MJ has a better argument since he won more in less time. Lebron won less when he had far more time to do it.
Bill Russell
10 chips as player
7 straight GOAT
Sometimes you just can’t have a debate with people because emotion eventually takes logic
That’s why it’s not a debate and never was.
Idk which side either of yall are on
@@noahjackson5099it’s the emotion of Jordan fans. I’m nearly 50yrs old and Jordan was my GOAT for years.
I looked for reasons to downplay LeBron because it was just something about him that didn’t sit well with me…maybe him trying to be funny or cool when I didn’t think he was.
But when he was in Cleveland after Kyrie left to Boston, I had to evaluate myself as a fan with integrity, and realized that I was searching desperately to keep Jordan as number one, which wasn’t fair to LeBron from my basketball point of view.
Once i did that LeBron was looking closer and closer to being the GOAT because i revisited all of his other feats that I previously hated on, and left the emotions outta it.
Once i did that i could not help but become a fan of LeBron’s and with emotions removed, he’s the unquestioned GOAT.
@@mobetta2092 which of Lebron’s feats that you revisited changed your mind. Because, as YOU said, I try to be as fair as I can and look at things objectively as possible. And of COURSE, I have continued to compare, contrast here and there along Lebron’s career and every time I am left with the same conclusion. Jordan is still on top. That’s WHY I’m interested to know what YOU see.
@@Youretheone4ton8ly-cf3ff removing my emotions and acknowledging that LeBron has led his team to championships while leading in every, or nearly every statical category.
LeBron having the IQ, size, strength, athleticism, quickness, speed and height to effectively play on both sides of the ball, every position, anywhere on the floor, at significant parts of games en route to championships, including head coach in terms of being known for play calling and recognizing opposing teams’ defensive and offensive set.
Jordan was a heck of a talent….but never has he done or had the reputation of being capable of doing the things they I mentioned about LeBron.
Let this sink in. He has more points than legends Bird & Magic combined but he also has assisted on enough baskets that he’d rank 23 all time ahead of Reggie Miller just off assisted baskets. That’s insane because that’s scored and assisted on over 65k points
And yet, the teams sacrifice winning games all for Lebrons stats. 4-21, everyone focuses on his individual stats when its a team game and his teams fail most of the time he does well. But ya know...as long as Lebron gets his stats, its not his fault.
You couldn’t be more wrong. He’s a pass first player and not a ball hog like Kobe and others. He scored a lot because of having people like Matthew D. as the second best player in the playoffs against the warriors. Love and Irving was hurt. Not to mention Lebron won 20 playoff series without a top 75 player and Jordan hasn’t won any without at top 75 player. See Jordan never won an nba playoff series without Pippen a top 75 player. The only thing you hear about though is how lebron joined others. Lebron has won series with less people but fans are hung up on 6 for 6 in the finals. Jordan wasn’t 6 for 6 but his team was. Let’s just agree that the bulls had the best TEAM ever. I still think MJ had the highest peak and is goat but Lebron is getting closer all the time
@@bluemedia5874 Lebron and everyone celebrated his 40k points, but yet...they lost.
@@bluemedia5874 Lebron isn’t getting closer anymore. Total numbers don’t dictate the goat debate. Unless you’re thinking he’s going to win more accolades or rings, then he’s not getting closer.
@@xxtopgunxx8764 I’m exhausted about hearing about rings. Rings are won by teams not just by a player. I get it the goat has to be a champion but If rings define the goat then Robert Horry has 7 so I guess he’s the goat
It’s getting to a point they really having a hard time justifying the bias. That 22 question had Broussard on his back
0 seconds ago
I’ve been making that point for years. Bron has been better at every age. Imagine having twin sons. At 18 ones is winning NCAA chip and the other is NBA RoY. At 22 one is RoY and the other is in the Finals.
@@jaji6883 Bron is definitely not better at every age. Bron was in his 4th year while Mike just got into the league. Their stats were similar during their 22 year old years. That says a lot about Mike since his game was barely developed in his first year.
@@jaji6883 Just because a player enters the NBA at a later age than another player does not mean the older player is/was not as good and by all means could surpass the player with the earlier start. And that is EXACTLY what Jordan did. He was kinda a dark horse as far as Greatest of All Time “title”. But boy did it begin to become evident as he progressed through the years, but even as a rookie he was amazing. Lebron had this label PUT on him BECAUSE of Mike. Although he for the most part lived up to the hype, he never quite reached Jordan status
@@jaji6883f.o.h with the cap
Brou’s argument that lebron would be better off retired is crazy
Thats how delusional he is mj fans are running put of arguments
@@TopFrequencyMusichuh
Lol, there isn't a single thing Lebron can add to his legacy at this point...but more power to him I guess, it's impressive
@@TopFrequencyMusiclol, it's the Lebron fans that keep running out of arguments cuz God forbid we call him the second greatest player ever lol.
It's not just MJ sycophants, it's now Kobe sycophants who are teaming up to spread innuendo, lies, and fallacies to discredit LeBron. That's what it's come to: A character assassination game.
Chris saying rookie Jordan is better than 48 special Lebron sums up MJ fans tbh
Ain’t no talking with them they minds been made up
Nick mentioning 40 k points but never that Lebron is BY FAR the TURNOVER leader sums up all this longevity talk tbh
@@Svarog187LEBRON ALSO 4TH IN ASSIST ALL TIME. PROVES HE BETTER THAN. MJ
He said he would go with bron did you not watch the same thing he was just arguing that bron had a better team
@@Svarog187thinking longevity stats are less impressive when players try to play as long as possible sums up Jordan fans🤣
I love Nick hahahahahaha that 18 year old player in the NBA argument at 17:10 was HILARIOUS
“the better NBA Player at 18 was LeBron” I’m crying, they really trying to dismiss like what??!??!???
“It’d be sick though if he played, like, professional baseball” hahahaha
Chris always knows he lost an argument when he won’t let anyone talk at all 😂🤣😆😆!!!!
Jordan guys give it up
@@devonpeterson471 Just because you believe that doesn't make it true. LBJ guys over MJ for sure, let it go.
@@mcdiesel7505Both can be very toxic, let’s be honest 😭
You misspelled Nick
What argument did he lose here
17:51 brew!!!!! That stutter says so much dawg!! 😂
LeBron is the best ever and to argue Jordan wouldn't be fair to Jordan IMO. What are you gonna do beg LeBron to stop piling it on even while he's still one of the best?
That last argument nick made bro was cookin 🔥
Bill Russell's 11 rings is low key still the most Hardest thing to achieve in the nba today
POINTS DONT MATTER .
If you’re stupid… he “cooked”.
🍳 👨🍳 🦃 🐔 🍗 cooking
Cooking 🗑️ lol
I do find it funny the amount of pressure on a single player to win championships as if its not a team sport.
It is a team sport, but it’s also a sport where one player has more impact on the outcome than any other sport(excluding individual sports)
@@xxtopgunxx8764 i mean i would say lebron has more impact of his teams succes than jordan does off the basis of when lebron doesnt play vs when jordan doesnt play
@@azizchaudhry1816 that’s factually incorrect. MJ has the highest career WS/48 in history. Meaning he contributed to more wins than anyone else in history.
@@xxtopgunxx8764 He only beats David Robinson in the THIRD decimal point, though. That's a photo-finish, with barely an eyelash between them. Jordan had the advantage of relentlessly taking the most shots in the league all the time (except one time he was second), and points scored counts toward Win Shares. DR did it on far fewer points (but a whole lot more of other things).
@@phillipschuman4307 what you said doesn’t affect my previous statement, idk what the point you’re trying to make is? MJ scoring points isn’t relevant, every player has their own offense, some assist more, some score more, some rebound more, etc. MJs scoring translated to team success. Points, assists, offensive rebounds, all count towards your offensive WS.
The fact that Marc Gasol won defensive player of the year over LeBron still bothers me til this day.
Why? Marc had the better defensive season.
@@xxtopgunxx8764he didn’t make first team all defense make it make sense
@@iflemister3935 Marc had a better defensive rating, had a better defensive box +\-, had a better defensive win shares, and also averaged more blocks. The only thing lebron had over Marc defensively was .7 of a steal…lebron wasn’t even in the top 5 in defensive win shares that season, even worse, he wasn’t even top 10 in defensive rating.
The only reason Lebron made the 1st team, is the same reason why people falsely believe Marc didn’t deserve dpoy that season, biased opinions. They selected Lebron because MJ and Kobe also made 1st all defensive teams and it seemed like a nice fit. That and they also needed a small forward for the selection. But I would’ve picked PG13 over Lebron that season on the first team, maybe because PG was playing SG at the time, it affected the selection, idk. Lebron definitely did not deserve to be 1st team that year. I believe PG and Marc should’ve both been first team. Paul George led the league in defensive win shares that season and was tied for 2nd in defensive rating…
I hope I made it make sense✌️lol
@@xxtopgunxx8764 doesn’t make sense bc if it was gonna be a nice fit he would’ve won dpoy also by default Marc was likely gonna have a a better defensive +/- bc he is a center and during that time it wasn’t as much three point shooting. Marc is gonna average more rebounds and blocks bc he is a center and whether he should’ve been or not u can’t say it’s narrative when he’s the only non first team to win it..I believe it’s more believable that it’s a narrative against lebron than for lebron but either way it makes no difference to and that’s also not true bc he is a better switch defender and versatile..and Jordan was not the best defender the year he won it in my opinion…but he was good enough to give it to
@@iflemister3935 box +\- isn’t something big men are advantageous to, especially if talking about defensive awards. Kawhi led the league in defensive box +\- when he won dpoy, so you’re wrong. The narrative was not against lebron, if there was a narrative, it was against Marc. Marc deserved dpoy that year, he was in the top 5 of every defensive analytic, and that’s excluding blocks or rebounds as you say. The only other player that season to do that was Tim Duncan. So the dpoy should’ve been between those two, either one of them deserved it.
MJ was most definitely the best defender the season he won dpoy. Not only was he top 5 in every defensive analytic, but also led that season in steals.
Lebron did not deserve to be 1st team that season and he most definitely did not deserve dpoy. It wasn’t lebron that got robbed of a dpoy, it was Marc that got robbed of a 1st team all defense. Both Marc and Tim Duncan got robbed actually, they both deserved it over Joakim, Tyson, and Lebron. Also PG13 should’ve been in there too. They were the better defenders, pure and simple.
Averaging 38 minutes a game for 21 years is wild when you sit and think about it. Also, Nick has never lost a Lebron date to anyone that I’ve seen.
@SphinxMen1906 but that is easier to do if you ONLY play on the days you feel wonderful. Of COURSE, his(Lebron’s) minutes AND per game stats will be hurt less because it’s per game that Lebron played; when he felt good, unlike Jordan who hardly ever took a game off, which SHOULD have hurt his numbers but I don’t THINK they did
@@Youretheone4ton8ly-cf3ffbron hardly took a game off up until the last what 5 years. He missed 39 games in 10 years!.
@@nathangarrett9868 nope. NOT true. First 10 years 55 games. Then next 6 years, he missed 57. Last five years including current year he missed 115(that include’s tonight’s game he’s sitting out) for a total of 227. And there are still 10 games left this season. 227 is close to missing 3 years. He has taken so many mini breaks or mini RETIREMENTS, which helped both his per game stats AND extend his career. That’s fair for him to do. But it takes away from even the longevity debate. ANYONE can look up his games played per season
@@nathangarrett9868 cap
39 and STILL, hasn't completed a double 3PEAT in rings and f-mvps. BUT has the Most turnovers in NBA HISTORY and 6 loses in finals.
Low standard GOAT
Did they all of a sudden forget about his playoff runs?? At the absolute very least in the 10 finals appearances, that's over 160 games, he's played 2 extra seasons on everybody.
Jerry West had 9 in his 14 Year Career. WINNING THEM IS WHAT MATTERS !!!!
YOUR BASICALLY BRAGGING ABOUT COMING IN SECOND PLACE
ordan never lost when he had the better team. Lebron had the better team in 2009 and lost to the Orlando Magic. He had the better team in 2010 and lost to the over the hill Boston Celtics. He had the better team in 2011 and lost to the Dallas Mavericks. He had the better team but lost to teams coached Stan Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, and Doc Rivers. Jordan never lost a playoff series when his team had the home court advantage.
@@user-tw2oc2ro1cso Lebron won with the better team 17 times. That’s a lot more winning.
@@rzn2258 so what youre saying is, 10-20th place is always better than 2nd?
Can someone also mention how scottie is 6-0 also😂
Having a consensus top 50 player ever on your team for all of your titles is not something we talk about. Duh. Jordan did it by himself because he is basketball Jesus
Couldn't have said it better!
And Dennis rodman
@@mattdobson7598wait when did Bron win by himself you can argue nobody including Lebron can pick up a ball and do what Kyrie do, do I need to mention his more accomplished teammates
@@mattdobson7598so then shaq and kobe, magic and kareem, should be knocked down a few rankings because they played with each other
All four of them are top ten, not consensus top 50 lol
Why is it that these debates always talk about like Basketball is an individual sport, what about the rest of the team and coach?
Bc Jordan fans then have to admit he had the 2nd greatest team in history surrounding him, a top 3 coach helping him, and they see LeBron did all this WITHOUT that lvl of support.
@@k_hack9441Lebron had way more all stars because he would jump ship to build super teams
@@k_hack9441 The help LeBron has had is easily comparable. LeBron won three rings as a big three. Same as MJ. Spoelstra was the coach for the Heat and Pat Riley team president. And the Lakers team was a great team as well.
@@penkima4923Spo the rookie coach yeah ok
@@penkima4923 the Lebron Heat were so great they were only favored 2/4 years. He won 2 rings as a “big three”. Spolestra was not the coach he is now. Who cares about Riley lol?
That age 22 got Chris stumbling on his words😭🤣😂. Nick really pressed Chris on this debate
Jordan was better in his 30s sooo...yeah.
@@augustbaothlynott7263 yeah for like 4 years. Lebron clears Jordan
Bill Russell's 11 rings is low key still the most Hardest thing to achieve in the nba today
It was the Celtics, not just Bill Russell. He was a def/reb, but he avg less that 15 ppg, shot less than 45%FG (as a big); and shot less than 50% FT.
They only had 10 teams then, I believe, so less competition, but he(Bill Russell)WAS good nonetheless
@@Youretheone4ton8ly-cf3ff 12 and 14 teams for his last 2 chips (and 8 for some of his earlier ones), when he was player/coach. doesn't change the general point that the league had far fewer teams then. shows how the league was starting to expand fairly quickly.
@gonzielovesspanish8989 Bill Russell is the centerpiece of that Celtics team whose main contribution is defense instead of FG and FT. I also see the 10 teams argument used against Bill but not about Jordan, who faced fewer teams than LeBron (double standard).
There was less than 10 Teams in the League when they won 8 of those.
Bill Russell wasn't the main reason they won those rings , those Celtics had Hall of Famers on that team.
Bill Russell was never The Finals MVP.
You guys really need to do some research before bringing those Celtics up.
You sound So Uninformed
wait til nick completely changes his standars for brady/mahomes peak/longevity debate
Chiefs ain’t done though
Lebron never hit Jordan's curb...
@@mistersunshine1330 depends how you look at it, neither did jordan reach james’
@@mistersunshine1330 Jordan at 39 vs. Bron at 39 though lol. Or at 22. Not even close.
@@chestercastaneda4920 How about when they were actually in their respective primes? Like when we actually have expectations? Oh right Jordan beats him everywhere (not by much bit still)
Hey Chris, it would be cool if you listened more. You're all over the place and have a hard time letting Nick explain. Tough watch.
If we are talking about the peak MJ vs Peak LeBron. It's not close. Longevity is what LeBron has over MJ.
It’s actually close, they both dominated their eras pretty easily too and it’s not really a debate
You’re biased if you think it’s not close. The best versions of both LeBron and Jordan might have been in years they didn’t win the championship. 88 Jordan and 18 LeBron?
@hunterheffington4577 yea but 18 lebron is by far better than 88 jordan.
@@sportstalkonly1442 I meant 2018 LeBron not 18yo LeBron. I think LeBron was better at almost every age though
Poor Brou sounds like he’s running out of pivots.
they all gone run out soon, chatting ish bout 6-0 (no context, others have won more), scoring titles (bron is the youngest to any mark and has scored the most ever, jordan retirement (we'll say nothing negative about him) hahha
The goalpost is right at the stands. Can't move it any further unless he wants to transfer it out of the playing field.
@@peterkoroma7876 they’re not. Other than longevity Lebron doesn’t have anything over MJ, it’s the other way around. MJ had more and better individual accolades, better per game and advanced stats/analytics, and obviously more rings.
Brou destroyed Nick nose, of course bronsexuals heard something completely different, the longevity and accolades argument was never made for anyone in nba history until it was time to squeeze Lebron in the conversation, comparing a dude who built 3 super teams to a dude who played for one team is wild
@@weinaracewarandslaverystar3408 In addressing the spirited debate on LeBron James' recent milestones, it's essential to approach the conversation with a balanced perspective. While Chris Broussard's defense against Nick's points might be considered formidable, labeling it a "destruction" veers into hyperbole. It's important to remember that discussions about sports achievements, mainly those as subjective as the "greatest of all time," are inherently nuanced and influenced by personal biases and perspectives.
The argument regarding longevity should be considered. Like the introduction of the 3-point line in the late 1970s, which fundamentally changed the game, longevity has emerged as a significant factor in evaluating a player's career. This is particularly noteworthy in a league where only one player, LeBron James, remains active among the 45 high school draftees, underscoring the rarity and significance of his career's endurance.
The notion that LeBron's accomplishments are being retrofitted into the GOAT conversation to "squeeze" him in is an oversimplification. LeBron's journey, characterized by leading three franchises to championships, indeed differs from players who spent their careers with a single team. However, his influence extends beyond his teams, setting a new standard that has arguably shaped the strategic direction of several franchises in response to his dominance and created more than 3 superteams. He influenced the creation of all superteams since Miami, especially GSW's Dynasty, which produced 5 All-Stars from their starting 5 in one season.
LeBron's career, marked by two decades of consistent excellence, including two decades of All-Star selections, an average of 27-28 PPG over 21 years, surpassing 40K points, an amalgam of top 5 and 10 statistical achievements, and significant financial success, deserves recognition. Comparing his achievements to Michael Jordan's, who also played for multiple teams, requires acknowledgment of the distinct contexts of their respective eras.
Jordan's peak, with six championships in the 1990s, REMAINS a hallmark of basketball EXCELLENCE! Yet, when considering the breadth of accomplishments and the impact on the game, Bill Russell's unparalleled 11 championships, including 8 consecutive with the Boston Celtics, set a high bar for "greatest of all time" discussions.
In essence, the GOAT debate might best be framed as a recognition of each player's unique contributions and dominance in their times. Bill Russell redefined team success; Michael Jordan epitomized peak performance and cultural impact; LeBron James has sculpted a new paradigm of longevity, versatility, and influence both on and off the court. Each has etched an indelible mark on the fabric of basketball, and their legacies are not in competition but rather chapters of an ongoing saga of greatness in the NBA.
I think it's funny that Brou wouldn't allow Jordan's retirements be used against him but also says the more LeBron plays the more arguments you can have against him. Can't have bit both ways.
We don't know for certain, would Jordan have won chips, if he didn't retire. It's hard to use the retirements against Jordan. But we do know for certain LeBron won 4 rings without retiring.
@@penkima4923 or we could not use either against any of them? Why would retiring be a positive? How is not playing better than playing? Do you people refuse to think when it comes to this debate?💀Retired or not, we know for sure jordan didn’t win any more chips. End of discussion.
Broussard on the decline. He used to be an MVP canidate for Media perennially
@@bluewolf7589 You sound like you didn't read my comment with thought. Try again.
@@penkima4923 you sound like you think your comment is more thought provoking than it is. It’s the most basic of premises. And not a very good one. Next time make it make sense why we don’t know if 1+1 is 2 but we know 2+2 is 4.
Whew Nick stay with the facts
Championships are not individual accomplishments... If they were, Bill Russell is the goat.
6 Finals Mvps are individual awards
@@2682shark That's fair. Definitely an individual accomplishment, but you still need a team to get you to the finals.
@@Guayubino 4-6 is not a good record
Chris stop interrupting!!!! Please!!
Nick was getting so frustrated. Brou kept trying to argue before Nick even made his point
Nick was cooking chris😂😂
Thought Nick lost the debate.
@@penkima4923how?
Nick couldn’t make a point, he tried but failed!
I love Chris, he keeps it real and he did the cooking and ate Nick up for sure
Broussard exposed his bias in this debate 😂😂😂😂
100%
He not biased Bron just wasn’t better. You can achieve more and still not be better.
You're exposing your bias lmao people are allowed to have their opinion. There's no definitive answer although Bron literally the most complete basketball player ever @@brianjackson3031
@@brianjackson3031 he said rookie Jordan and Year 4 Bron is close.. that’s just pure delusion.
@@jmoney4220 how is it delusional? Rookie MJ averaged 28 6 and 5. It’s not delusional to say he was as good as anyone
With the offensive pace that the league is at right now, it can technically be possible for someone else to do it, but it would take a sheer amount of dedication to your body, not that much load management, and luck early to mid career in avoiding significant injuries
luck*
When you don’t listen always interrupting your wrong point blank 🤷🏼♂️
How come the same people who praise LeBron for these accumulative stats, diminish john Stockton achievements in accumulative stats.
Jordan on the 2007 Cavs would have been a 35-40 win team. LeBron on the 1985 Bulls would have ran through both Bird and Magic while making both Orlando Woolridge and Quinton Dailey look like All-Stars.
That doesn't make sense. Jordan at age 22 was as good as LeBron.
@penkima4923 yeah at age 22 Jordan had a 22.9 ppg scorer and a 16 ppg scorer next to him, and they couldn't even manage a winning record. LeBrons next best players were 14.9 and 11.9 and he carried them to a Finals. If Jordan couldn't manage a winning record let alone winning a playoff seriese with a better supporting cast, he wouldn't even sniff the playoffs in the 00's when teams werent getting in with 30 wins like they were at the end of the 80s.
@@bbro43 "yeah at age 22 Jordan had a 22.9 ppg scorer and a 16 ppg scorer next to him, and they couldn't even manage a winning record."
Scoring doesn't equal the better player.
"LeBrons next best players were 14.9 and 11.9 and he carried them to a Finals."
That "14.9" was the all-defense 1st teamer from the previous season, who led the league in steals. That "11.9" was a two-time all-star, while MJ didn't have one all-star teammate in the 80's. You act like LeBron made the finals solo.
"If Jordan couldn't manage a winning record let alone winning a playoff seriese with a better supporting cast"
LeBron had the better supporting cast.
"he wouldn't even sniff the playoffs in the 00's when teams werent getting in with 30 wins like they were at the end of the 80s."
Jordan made the playoffs in his rookie and sophomore seasons. LeBron did not.
@@penkima4923nope
What LeBron wouldn't have not been able to do the things back in the era of Michael Jordan it was too physical he's complaining right now sometime lacking just to get up the court without physicality the only thing that LeBron has over Jordan is longevity that's all for as a player is Jordan hands down
Way to keep moving thise goal posts, Broussard
Jordan at 38-40 also didn’t have Ad in his prime
You mean Street Clothes Davis?
@@focuz4899was he in street clothes in the bubble finals?
He had Jack Daniels
@@mobrocket And a roulette wheel 😂
AD is not in his prime
40k points 10k assist 11k rebounds and still counting ☝🏼 The Greatest Of all Time 👑
He has those numbers, because he had to keep chasing the GoaT.
You forgot 5,000 turnovers. The only player in NBA history to reach that milestone
@@user-tw2oc2ro1c leflop has also been in the nba for almost as long as ive been alive and he only has 4 rings. A ring every 5 years. The GOAT was in the nba for only 15 years and got 6 rings. A ring exactly every 2.5 years and with ZERO losses. This dude is only gonna win the record for the longest time in the nba.
Stick yourself go get vaccinated and go lay down
also 4-6 in the nba finals. also 2011 chokejob. thats something MJ has never done so theres that.
I just liked watching these two argue about it. They both did a great job at making a case for their guy.
Just imagine if Broussard mentioned Michael Jordan in the greatest when he was talking baseball would have been hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂
how Nicky nicky would react
Michael Jordan won 6 titles in 6.5 years of playing (1.5 years out for baseball). Nick seems to think LeBron being better than MJ when he was in college and with the Wizards is some sort of argument...
And bill russell won 11 in 13 years. Team accomplishments don't equal a better individual player. Especially when u play far weaker competition
@@sportstalkonly1442with no flexibility in the league. One third of the teams today and in the 90s and half the leagues hall of famers on his team
Nah, when you have to frame a point or argument in a certain way, you're changing the goal posts. Every Lebron argument does this.
lebron is the goat for a million reasons and jordan only has 1
@SUPADUDE4070 what's the 1 reason?
@@dkim3589 rings. Every other way you frame the argument lebron has done way more with less. More diverse, on offense and defense. More points more assists, etc.
@@SUPADUDE4070Did you not see the 2011 NBA Finals?
@@tarikwalters854 is this the part where you ignore and diminish lebrons accomplishments and competition while amplifying Jordan’s 6 seasons of championships, competition, rule set etc.?
Playing that long and only winning 4 rings is crazy to me
How many rings do vince carter and karl malone have
@@alimightyg1941 is that the level Lebron is at?
@alimightyg1941 Karl Malone is better than jordan because he scored more points over his career, and he played longer. by Lebron fan's logic.
@@alimightyg1941Karl and Vince aren't considered the Greatest of all time
You can not change his mine Brew is set in his mind 🤣🤣🤣
What is supposed to change his mind…longevity?
It's actually really simple, ask Nick who the greatest golfer of all time is......100% he says Tiger over Jack. Why, because for 8-10 years Tiger is unlike anything anyone had ever seen. And like Tiger, over a 10 year period, no one has ever seen anything like peak Jordan.
easily the best comment
Except when peak lebron came along.
Good debate between the two on the GOAT, but show the problem of the argument as a whole.
Peak v longevity. Who’s the best at their best vs who’s the best for longest? Once you decide you’re just going round and round in arguments.
Nick was cooking because brous dismissal of longevity is the issue there, it does count. IMO not as much, but you can’t be hurt by playing longer than someone else? Nonsensical take.
Winning two more rings is more valuable than playing 5 more years in the league.
If you play longer but still have few chips, finals mvps, scoring titles, all defensive teams, DPOYs while playing 7 more healthy season then yes it can hurt.
@@luminousrxk7288how can it hurt to still be playing at a high and competitive level at such an old age? thats literally a brain dead take hes not a liability he’s playing amazing. even insinuating using his longevity against him is why this debate is so toxic
@@penkima4923there are other stats and accolades in the sport than just how many rings are on your finger. lebron holds just about every record his name is littered throughout the history books even now.
As a matter of fact, I rather to have a 97% ave good player for 21 yr as a business person than a 100% ave good player for 10 or so yr, LBJ is becoming better than MJ as a whole
Wildes being in the crossfire is so funny.
Insane debate! Nick got his
Now do a segment of what Lebron would have been without PEDs
Now do a segment of what JorBald would have been without Phil Jackson
Prove he's on PEDS
What if Lebron isn’t on PEDs? You realize you’re giving him the highest compliment by assuming he’s on something. You’re essentially saying it’s impossible to still be this good.
The rings argument is overrated to speak on the individual players greatness. Ring’s definitely take the team including the coach
Depends. MJ played for one team, so his rings have weight.
It can be, but LeBron should have won more than 4.
@@penkima4923 it actually has let weight because the team was built around him. Pippen all but 3 years of his bulls tenure, ran the same triangle offense and had the Philosopher in Phil Jackson. Sprinkle in some Dennis Rodman, Kerr, and Kukoc and you have consistency and continuity. Don’t forget the refs giving him every call because we gotta keep him happy.
Yea but when you all 6 finals MVPs and the team was built to cater to your strengths, then you deserve most of the credit for winning. Just like finals appearances is also a team accomplishment, but lebron still deserves most of the credit for leading them.
Totally agree with Brou when he told Nick "You get nonsensical" when he strays way out of subject just to make his argument valid 😂
entertaining debate I think everyone made their point and as always its whatever you deem to be important.
The funny thing about the "MJ went 6 for 6 in the finals" thing is people rarely discuss how great his team was. He was favored in 5 out of 6 Finals. He literally had a Big 3 in an era were most teams had a big 1 and some had a big 2. Not to mention both played similar competition throughout there years in the east. The difference is how much better Lebrons Finals opponent's were.
What's his big 3? Pippen was an average all star, who else he had? Rodman? Lmao
LeBron jumped from superteam to superteam much better than the Bulls as a roster, and got kicked in the face. What you bron fanboys have is just a pack of excuses.
jordan played with a single all star his entire time winning rings. Rodman was not even a all star/all-nba caliber player when playing with Jordan. And also everyone needs help to win. Bron jumped to 2 different teams to get enough help to win.
@@comradeyellow6781 Lebron fans said that the only reason Mike and the Bulls beat the Pistons in 91 is because the Bad Boys were old and washed. The same fans then turn around to say that Rodman (5 years later) in 96 on the bulls was part of a big 3. LOL. None of it makes sense.
Another difference is how many teams they played for.
@@comradeyellow6781 you don't have to take my word for it. Use your phone and Google best NBA big 3s. On most if not all list you'll see MJ/Scottie/Rodman or MJ/Scottie/Horace. LeBron had one Superteam. That's the Heat. I'm a fanboy of basketball. I've watched and loved the game for 30 years. You're clearly are a child because both Scottie and Rodman are in the Hall of Fame. Scottie was put in the top 50 players all time list. The first year after MJ first retired Scottie lead the Bulls to 55 wins and placed 3rd in MVP as an "average" player. The next year as an "average" player he lead the Bulls in all 5 major categories. Average means everyone can do it. He wasn't nearly as average as your idiotic comment.
Nick probably has LeBron bed sheets
And you wear Jordan’s jerseys and shoes. What’s your point?
What @@lornegreen6755 said!
I thought you said Nick has LeBron's bed sheets😂😂😂
Nick Wright is out of his mind
Nick with the bodybag at 17:44
Jordan in 88.. won DPOY, scoring title at 35 a game, and was MVP
Lebron in 08.. scoring title at 30 a game, but no MVP, no DPOY.. Bron is close, but Jordan's peak season was better
LeBron is greatest individually. And he has 2 less rings but went against the greatest juggernaut superteam ever
@@p.bi1179 question: which era is harder to score in? Now or back in Jordan's era? Jordan averaged 30 ppg in about 8 seasons.. Bron only did that twice
@@aaronsmith998 Easier to score now. So many lethal scorers now. What’s your point? That MJ is a better scorer? Yes, I would say he is a better mid range shooter who focused more on scoring than LeBron James does.
@@p.bi1179 that means, when Jordan was scoring, it was harder to score, AND he scored more almost each regular season, playoffs, and finals. He won more in the regular season, playoffs, and finals... And put in more work on defense.
Jordan is 4th all time in steals, LeBron isn't in the top 20 in rebounds or blocks.
@@aaronsmith998 Here’s what I got for you: LeBron James is known as more of a pass first player & he is the NBA All Time Leading Scorer. Also 4th in assists if you wanna talk about records as well as top 10 in steals
Did the dude just say rookie Jordan at 22 was better than finals lebron at 22 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
No, he didn't. Why would you laugh at that?
Dude check Jordan stats at 22, you're embarrassing yourself 😂😂😂
@@guilhermevieira6010winning vs stats remember smh yeah y'all wired bruh and I may be older than you
@@fel4822 It's not winning vs stats, it's winning AND stats, check LeBron stats in the finals that years, he was trash.
@@guilhermevieira6010 MJ was making it to the playoffs under .500 east was wask only Detroit and Boston obviously
Who is about to be the all time missed shots leader and turnover leader???
For longevity in sports you guys missed Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic redefining longevity for top tennis.
Can you name a person who has won a championship in basketball alone? Winning championships is a team effort, but being number one in points in NBA history is a true goat. Lebron is the Goat ✍🏻🏀🐐
Since winning is a team effort let's look at teammates
Pippen
Rodman
Kukoc
End of bench robert Parish
End of the line george gervin
Role players Paxson
Steve Kerr (coaching will get in )
Harper
Grant.
Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Davis
Kyrie will get in
Howard
Westbrook
Anthony
Shaq
Ben Wallace
Role players
Mike Miller
Jr Smith
Ilgauskas.
Larry Hughes..
So if Lebron had more talent around him and lost more ... should we skew our opinion because of that
Chris wasn’t even tryna let Nick talk about the debate 😂 not letting somebody get a word in doesn’t mean you won
I was saying the same thing! Like just let Nick formulate one full point without cutting him off!
Broussard says: Rings count for Jordan but brons finals vs playoffs sweeps by Jordan don't count. Ridiculous.
1998 Jordan
Won NBA Title
Finals MVP
Regular Season MVP
All Star Game MVP
All NBA First Team
All NBA Defensive Team
Won Scoring Title
Played all 82 games
2020 lebron
Won NBA title
Won Finals Mvp
Led the league in assists
All NBA first team
Number 1 seed
Same age as 1998 jordan lmao
All I'm hearing is how easy it would be to dismantle Chris broussard in a debate.
How are you gonna say longevity can go against bron😂 like what? Playing at a high level while not winning is significantly better than retiring at a high level and not playing at all. So technically players should retire when they know they can’t win and come back when it’s suitable to win 😂😂 what kind of dogshit argument is that?
"So technically players should retire when they know they can’t win"
Technically, players should retire when they know they can win.
bron has played more years than Jordan and still trails in almost every major NBA accomplishment outside of all/star and all-nba (which are really longevity awards for top 10 greats)
@@luminousrxk7288 No they’re not longevity awards for any top 10😂 its bc those are awards you win on the court. The other accolades are decided by the media. And votes of people who grew up watching mike. All star games are non negotiable. Even that has media influence. Lmao. MVPs and those awards mean nothing bc it’s based on peoples discretion.
@@penkima4923 you make no sense bud.
But when it Brady it’s okay longevity
It really is a case of peak vs. longevity. I'm taking peak every time, though.
Freaking Wildes! " I get it". Hahahahaha
Its amazing that Bron hit 40k. It has no baring on the goat debate. Just like passing Kareem didn't and passing malone didn't change anything. The most glaring thing to me is every time Bron hits a mile stone hits team loses.
Loses happen but it doesn’t take away from his greatness.
@deadspace2 do they happen every time? Seems more like he cares about himself and less about his team. But his style of play is incredibly selfish in general. Loses can take away from your greatness 2011 is a solid example
@@d.columbia9603yea and that's the only loss on his resume where it was completely on him because he didn't show up. But you're talking about something that happened 10 years ago as your only argument out of a 21 year career lmao
@@d.columbia9603he only cares about himself and not his team yet he's 4th all time in assists. The narratives yall make up man.
@sportstalkonly1442 you see stats and assume that is unselfish. On the face of it that makes sense. However start looking at the about of talent he had on his teams and how diminished some of those players were due to lebrons system and it becomes more clear. Bosh and love both were diminished playing with Bron. Bron being the point was incapable of creating synergy with the elite talent he played with. So rather than becoming more then the sum of their parts they were less than. He is hyper aware of his stats so he isn't to blame for his losses. But it's still a selfish style of play that hinders winning. With the volume of talent he has had in the last 13 years more winning would have happened otherwise.
Bron > Jordan
As a pistons fans, Jordan in the 80s was no concern. Rookie Bron was a problem.
You could cheat in the 80s with that dirty play, you couldnt cheat against LeBron, that's Why.
“Ahhhg, ahhhg, ahhhg, IDK”
Hahahahha Nick got Brou bad here
Nick was making arguments that are so specific and irrelevant that you can't even respond to them. They're awful arguments.
Nick Wright is pretty smart with his questions as an advocate for LBJ......lol.
Nick had Broussard stumbling all over lol
First time seeing Brou absolutely crushed like this 😂
im sorry. he lived up to the hype? you mean being the next jordan? nah. he definitely did NOT live up to the hype.
Yea because he surpassed jordan
@@sportstalkonly1442LOL how?
Broussard had Nick trying to change points when it came who had the better peak. Lebron dominated the Eastern Conference, MJ dominated the NBA. There’s levels to this…
I guess Jordan forgot to dominate the NBA in the 80s when there were great basketball teams to beat. Jordan just decided that he would dominate against bad 1990s teams.
These lebron vs jordan debates are gold
It's painful as ever to listen to Nick Wrong
If LeBron retired like MJ then he would have less points.
Its call stats padding, thats all
How is taking steroids so you can play forever have anything to do with the goat debate?
Does enyone besides Lebron use steroids?
There is no span of time where Lebrons peak is higher than Jordans.
Jordan had points but didnt have rebounds assists blocks jordan peak is not high
@@BIGCHUCCY3 you sure about that? Look it up….
@@MarioSilva-jg5nh look wat up its no year when his assist and blocks was higher than bron wtf are u. Talkin about
2012-2020. So dominant that MVP Curry had to recruit MVP KD
@@BIGCHUCCY3 Well, I looked it up (just to be more precise because I already pretty much knew), but Jordan went over 100 blocks at least twice (125 and the following season 131 blocks) Lebron never broke a hundred. Jordan is at (.8 blocks per game) compared to (.7 per game) for Lebron. And Jordan is 4th all time on assists list for shooting guards while Lebron is ranked 12th among small forwards. And Jordan’s got Lebron on steals with 2.3 per game to Lebron’s 1.5 per game. And Jordan’s 10 percent higher on his free throws. So about the only thing Lebron MAY be has Jordan is slightly higher rebounds, more points in the paint and more career TOTAL points....because he PLAYED longer
It is possible tho. Players are scoring more than any other time currently and how about the possibility of a 4 point shot? Definitely possible, just not probable
Jordan's competition was not the same as Bron's. Y'all gotta start taking that into account as well. SMH
Nick is ridiculous. How do you criticise how a player performed in a year when he did not play?
There is value in an L. There is no value in DNP. Making LBJ (an NBA ROY at the age of 18/19) better then MJ(wasn’t in the NBA yet).
Because of Jordan, many Hall of Famers never won a championship (Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing etc) That is dominance, LeBron James doesn't have the same dominance.
Because they were all farmers. Jordan will not dominate in this era
@@therealsanteri That is your opinion, many people believe, including other Hall of Famers, that with today's more space and weaker defenses, MJ would've had a much easier time scoring and would've developed his 3 ball game.
Jordan never had “Big 3’s” or MVP’s form up for him. Lebron did. Curry, Thompson, KD, Green, Cousins all to GSW, just for Lebron’s dominance.
@@No-Hassle Lebron started a Big 3 himself because he needed help to win championships. Jordan went up against Hall of Famers to win championship, first Finals win was vs Magic Johnson etc...
I think most points over an average nba career would be a more impressive stat for us to have a conversation. But 40k is a crazy milestone for sure.
Brou stuck his chest out and said, “we can look at the wins and losses TOO!” Like LeBron wasn’t in the WCFs LAST year! 😂😂😂
Lebron doesn't even dominate his own era!!!
Do you watch basketball?
Nick just don't want to accept the truth longevity can actually hurt you LeBron has been playing in the league all of this time and he still has less accomplishments than Michael Jordan yeah 40,000 points are great and everything but that does not make him the goat Karl Malone had more points than Michael Jordan did that make Karl Malone better than Michael Jordan nope
I think he simply disagrees. Longevity is an amazing quality for a player. It is also a quality that the player is individually responsible for as opposed to winning which is a team accomplishment. Also, the reason for not showing up does not matter. If MJ was forced out of the league because of gambling issues or because he didn't have the motivational drive, that should definitely count against him in the GOAT debate. The most important stat is availability, and prolonged availability is longevity.
Longevity at a high level for a player for this long definitely out weigh any accomplishments. Yes Jordan won more Champs faster but it was only because his competitors were bums compared to the talent today have to keep it 💯 There was no player in the league during MJ time that could match him individually. You can say the same for Lebron also but the teams are better talent wise now compared to what Jordan was facing. Jordan competitors were not better they were just playing illegal basketball physically not using talent. Today players are way more skilled and this is why Lebron is highly Goated because his dominance this long against actually skilled players instead of illegal physical defense most think was talent. Lebron has faced way more highly talented players and teams than MJ could ever dream of. Talent wise it was a cake walk for Jordan not just because he was so great but his competition was weak skillfully across the league. So for MJ era he was the best but on today's game Lebron is the Goat because MJ could never win 6 in this era straight because it's matched talent or better. Keep in mind the guy mosts compared to Jordan is Kobe and he only has 5 rings in 20 years MJ 6 in 15 years with retirement Lebron 4 in 20 years Bill Russell 11 Champs in 13 years and Lebron still playing so when it comes to chips that's irrelevant to who's the best basketball player.
You unironically js disproved your own point by contradicting yourself. You can’t say “40000 points are great and all but Karl Malone has more points than Jordan and we’ve never looked at him as better”. At the end of the day it’s an accumulation of things on the resume that makes someone great. Not js one single metric like points or chips. Because same argument I can flip at you is bill Russel had more chips than jordan and Lebron combined but he’s not in the same realm as either. It’s not ab the chips or the points, but rather the accumulation of everything. So with that being said, how can playing longer possibly be detrimental to Lebrons career? How does winning less but accomplishing record milestones that prob won’t ever be caught hurt a legacy but taking a break twice and only winning 6 in 15 while not having the stats to show how individually great you were compared to others careers?
@@djmitchell3464You do realize on a per game basis MJ is the greatest ever right? With LeBron right behind him, he could ABSOLUTELY cook like he did then today, especially if there are no Bad Boy Pistons beatin him to the ground every chance they got.
@@mistersunshine1330 Yes, this how incommensurability occurs. When two careers are too different in length, they cannot be compared. For the one with the shorter career, per game stats will be beneficial. For the one with the longer career, total stats will be beneficial. Problem is, there is no common ground or convention that we agreed upon about number of season. MJ fans will argue that the best 6 years of a career, but it is ultimately arbitrary.
This MJ lebron debate is one of my fav debates on this show lol. Brou vs nick
LeBron v. Jordan is a timeless debate
It’s not a real debate