A Whole New Cross-Section? New DT Swiss ERC Wheelsets
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- DT Swiss have just released the second generation of their ERC range of endurance-specific aero road wheels: the 1100 DICUT and 1400 DICUT. Now made of carbon and featuring a completely new rim shape, they’re ready to take wider tyres and, according to DT Swiss, boast improved aerodynamics whilst also being less susceptible to crosswinds. Ollie has taken both new models out for a spin to provide you with his first impressions
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Which freehub sound do you prefer - the 180 EXP DICUT in the 1100s or the 240 EXP DICUT in the 1400s?
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Good job GCN, switching to an electric motorcycle for the riding footage!
great sales presentation, you should get a commission
Tfw you have to watch a zwift ad to get to the DT Swiss ad
Cynic
@@colingregory7464 it’s true
I think they do!
It's almost as if it's.....his job (dun dun dunnnnn)
@hambini would be so proud of dt looking at the full drag profile
He'd still find a way to act like swearing was the coolest thing ever
@@whatwelearned He's a very entertaining youtube character that is quite necessary these days.
Can’t wait to get them on Zwift
4:40 - Oh my gosh he can ride them with no hands. Revolutionary.
look ma, no hands
that freehub sound could have been used in Jurassic park to simulate a t-rex farting 🤣
They showed a picture of Hank as incompetent home mechanic 😂
💀
Olly had to drop Hank some time…….
I watched this video after I watched the video put out by DT Swiss on these same wheelsets. And, as a fan of not blowing one's own horn too loudly, I am glad I did. I cannot now imagine a culture that holds the benchmark for watchmaking to not apply that to everything engineering. DT Swiss will now be a company I will pay close attention to. I enjoy being one of the fastest on the road.
All of the comments from people have have not ridden these wheels. I have already ridden the ERC 1100 45mm wheels; they are amazing! My application? Change out my equally amazing ARC 1100 80/62 wheels on my triathlon bike because Nov 26 I am racing Formosa Xtreme Triathlon which includes 3450m vertical elevation on the bike course, but with a gentle hilly section for first 60km, 75km of windy coastal rolling hills, and then 45km of steady climb up the first half of the Taiwan KOM race course hill. These ERC 1100wheels nail this profile with strong aero performance and weight savings versus the all out aero of the ARC 1100 wheels I normally compete with. DT Swiss engineers the entire package to the nth degree. There is a cost for that and a brand premium too. That may not be the wheel set you want, but there are those who do value what DT Swiss offers.
Awwww, poor Hank. That was completely uncalled for. 🤣🤣😘
Thanks for this video. Feel quite sure about upgrading my wheels to DT Swiss ERC 45mm now.
Always been a big fan of DTSwiss. Interesting the shift in the rim profile. I’ve been running a set of Light Bicycle rims for a couple of years that use this gen3 profile and they do suffer very little stall.
Great wheels at an eyewatering cost. I bought a set of 'VISP" Chinese-made carbon wheels for about $400 six years ago and after 25,000+ km they're still going strong. I'd love a set of these DT Swiss wheels but my bank balance sadly won't allow it!
Owned it years ago, along with their Alloy frame. The definition of bang for bucks.
@@iancuk Nice one 👍
That’s why I use aluminum rims. Best of everything from price tag to performance. I’m still very skeptical of the “improvement” of carbon vs top line aluminum such as HED Belgium for 99 percent of riders.
@@scott5088 I get that and hard to argue against. For me, I think the reality was I just wanted carbon wheels with no deep analysis into them other than they are lighter. JP
@@Biking360 and they look cooler/faster, and we know that looking fast means being fast
Another fine GCN infomercial.
Just like Roval with the latest CLX DT Swiss can thank Enve the SES and Ar version of their sets that were the ground breaking design and the new direction is all that way now. And great long may it evolve. They are so good to ride 🚵♀️🍻
The new hubs and how they integrate the straight spokes are so much more pleasing to the eye than the type with the „paddles“ standing out of the hub.
I have commuted through flood water next to a river where the water could be above the wheels. So yes, handlebars and seat still dry. Turning was fun as the water would hit the side of the front wheel, slowing me down somewhat and requiring epic turning strength to get the wheel back pointing forward. Totally worth it though for the looks from onlookers as I would emerge from 'the river'. Could form the basis of an interesting show, an underwater race with a gravel bike, an MTB and a TT aero special.
Ollie makes science for us ‘adults’ as simple as Lego for infants. Bravo! Excellent show. I suspect he is a Uni lecturer in the making …..
Ollie is the smartest kid in the dumb class
agreed. Except lets not lose him to Academia...
@@garagesale5948 And all the other kids are bullying him or making fun of him. It‘s like in school.
Ollie is actually a professor after all.
Wow Doc, I learned so much from this vid. I think I'd go with the 30's....I live in a vey very windy place and I've experienced that stall...almost blew me off a busy interstate (think M5) overpass last spring. I just lost a spoke on my old carbon fiber wheel set and the nice mechanic says there are no replacements, will these fit older models with good old rim brakes? And ceramic bearings?
Got a bike, that had those wheels on it. 1100 ERC 45mm. I searched EVERYWHERE about this wheelset, and i could not find any spec about those wheels. I searched older wheels could not find a thing. UNTIL this video. HOLY CRAP those wheels are steady in the wind.... I am stunned by the performance...
now you can ride in a hurricane with no hands.
@@ionutcelgroaznic lmao
as always, your tech videos are excellent and very well-presented, ollie!
thanks pal
Just ordered Hunt 50's. Can't beat the price. The days of 2 grand for a set of nice wheels are gone. Thank you winspace! 😃
Very nice!!
I get them with aluminum brake surfaces and they actually stop well. If people like Enve think that I am going to pay their ridiculous prices they can shove it. I really like the idea of new DT wheels but I'm not sure that Aero wheels are really much of a help at the average speed of my rides of 11 mph or so because I do a LOT of climbing. Perhaps being 77 means you don't need to worry about aero any longer. Does Bernard Hinault still ride at 10 years younger than me? What about Merckx at about 6 months younger?
These bike companies will say anything to sell wheelsets. If you been around the game for a while, you'll realize how much the industry contradicts itself with weight, aero, and shapes claims.
come now. Its called Aero+!!!! Are you telling me its just marketing jargon!?
God forbid manufacturers would actually research these things and continue to develop newer products that continuously refine existing concepts or introduce new ones… if companies thought the way you do, cars would still look like the monsters of the 1970s and get 6 miles to the gallon, and road bikes would still look perform like the steel bikes of 40 years ago.
The emphasis on aerodynamics in cycling is relatively new. It’s inevitable that there are going to be changes in philosophy and new developments as the complex relationships are studied more.
@@danielakerman8241
I'm all for R&D however the cars and bikes are vastly different so lets discuss something else.
IMHO, the cycling industry has reached a plateau for road bikes and all they are doing is marketing this "tech" as if they invented the wheel.
Check the times up the iconic TDF climbs. Some of these KOMs are still held by "old tech" bikes. Let's be honest, these marginal gains at best, will not be felt by anyone riding it. Aside from their lab tests, I'm convinced 90% of riders will not even notice a quantifiable difference. Not to mention, the premium placed on these products.
Aero road bikes have been around for almost a decade now so I'm not sure what you consider new. Longer than that if you factor in tri and tt bikes.
To each their own, I appreciate the banter, ride on.
I had a similar thought. ‘A 20% reduction in steering moment!’ made me chuckle.
I still kind of want the wheels because they’re pretty. ;)
@@bobbyt7444 yes, because bicycles then are just as easy to cycle as they are now.
Come on, that’s bullshit. On my dads old steel colnago I was barely doing 30kmph. And this is with the rim brakes 19mm tyres you folks simp over.
Swapped over to my current sl7 on tubeless 28 with aero deep wheels, I’m suddenly breaking all my old records. And literally the only thing that has changed is the bike.
But heys, if you guys would have it your ways, we’d still be on bamboo bikes and stone wheel. Although that said, your steel rim brake bikes and wheels aren’t that much better than bamboo and stone anyway ….
You get what you pay for. Thank you for explaining the scientific research that goes into these better wheels. Just started riding the 1400 on my new 2022 BCM Roadmachine 01. Being all Swiss manufactured and hand built and tested explain the expense in making these wheels. I’d say yes, the are costly but they are worth the extra money. What’s money when you’re investing in your own fitness? I like having wheels made in conjunction with formula one engineering.
I picked up some 1400 48mm from an popular italian website and got them for 1750$ usd after tax and import fees to the USA . I got them to use when mixing in some climbing with flat terrain as the enve 4.5 ses I was running were not very stiff and a bit larger then I would prefer for mixed terrain rides . I surprisedly found the dt Swiss to be a bit faster , more stiff and better in crosswinds while descending and on the flats . The enves look better but that’s all they have on the dt Swiss as to actual performance in my comparison. Really happy with the purchase and selling the 4.5 enve wheelset . Now my 6.7 enve wheelset is the holy grail on flats and I will not part with those as they are bulletproof and extremely stable . Pure stealth mode when I throw them on . The 4.5 set is laced to CKR45 and 6.7 on 240s with 54t ratchet and the dt Swiss got the 54t ratchet upgrade also . Great security measure as the sounds is a solid alert tool when needed.
Do the 45mm deep ERC1400 have a small hole in the rim for water drainage? I want to get new wheels and have a problem of water accumulation in my current ones. In the photos on the DT swiss webpage I can spot the drainage hole just after the first „S“ of the „DT SWISS“ font in all models except the 45mm 1400s…
Great presentation Ollie
Did I miss the cost?
I have the older Dicut 1400 in 48mm deep. Great wheels. Im heavy at 97 kilos. I have 7 thousand miles on them no issues.
Worth noting that for an endurance wheelset supposedly suited to a 28c tyre, this will balloon to a measured 30-31mm, wider than the 28.5mm width of the rim. So say goodbye to any aero benefit (well it won't be very much in any case).
I have just one bike I use for 95% road (with road tires 28c) and 5% for gravel roads (not MTB) and cyclo touring with (with 40c tires). Would this be an option for me?
I have got e pair of citec wheels wich have the nipples at the hub. Do you have any insight why that is not more common?
so basically don’t buy deep rims if you aren’t confident in the wind
yes, sidewind in particular ..
I’m 63kg and ride 60mm with no problem. Sure, it twitches when there’s a sudden gust of wind or if a truck passed you on the opposite direction, but no one has ever get blown by the wind on deep rims.
@@supermitendo9654 yup, unless you're riding against a strong sidewind on a descent, there would no problem ..
Slight correction, don't buy rubbish deep rims if you aren't confident in the wind. Also, don't confuse cheap with rubbish.
Nice to see Hank on a Tech video 😍
I have the 240 hubs and they are so much quieter than the ones shown on here but I imagine as they are brand new they are still packed with grease
The same with mine. My previous wheels were dt swiss p1800 with 3pawl hub and they were louder. For some reason the hub on mine when riding slow feel like they are broken. 😅
The sponsor required message at 1:12 sounds super authentic and not at all from a marketing department.
Hey Ollie, if you think 28mm feels comfy and grippy, you should try 32mm ones next ;)
Found out how easily the free hub comes off when I dropped my wheel after putting on tubeless tires - the hub parts scattering across the garage floor. Scared myself sh*tless. No LBS and thought I was hooped until a web search set me right. Some cleaner and fresh grease and all was good.
Both of my wheelsets of nukeproof are built very much the same built wheels. Nukeproof horizon is 102 tooth inner 3 degrees engagement
The DT Swiss wheels that came on my Canyon suffered with rim cracking around the spoke holes.
But the low aero buffeting was great, right?
How did you terminate the location of the sound? Did they replace wheels? Im probably having something similar, but very difficult locate and present.
what is the system weight?
You should clarify that steering instability isn't really a "wheel" problem, it's a frame geometry issue. Modern bike frames with slack head tubes and high rake will develop a large steering moment.
Put a deep section wheel on a proper road bike designed for high speed (HA >74⁰ with >60mm trail) and your steering isn't problematic.
Interesting. I’ve noticed it slightly more with my new bike, a Ribble CGR with a moderately slack geometry (not quite as much as a true out and out gravel machine), but did notice it in the past on my traditional road race bike with a much steeper head angle and less rake.
@@arontal my steel track bike has 75⁰ head angle, with a 28mm rake fork.
It is basically immune to crosswinds, with the same 60mm deep wheels as my road bike, although the road bike does feel it.
The 28mm rake means that side wind forces are more centered on the steering axis. It also means the trail is 62mm, which lends far more stability.
Hmmmm zipp firecrest 303 or dt swiss 1400.... very similar by the looks but which one to go for...
I love it but I want one wheel I can use on the roads & gravel, can this handle ruddy gravel rides not just fast smooth roads?
Love the use of an electric vehicle for filming. Ollie was easy to understand 👌🏻 but there is some ear piercing high frequency noise in the scenes filmed at the indoor set 😖
To late DT Swiss, I got my 303 Firecrest(July2021) and they are the shite. 25mm internal rim width plus 28mm Michelin tubeless tyres make the ride sublime. Well unless you're a hater then everything sux.
I've got three same ordered
Thanks Ollie...good Hank... "Bad Mechanic" reference...Peace
ok, 7:18 chapeau GCN. I spat my fizzy drink at my screen laughing.
5:09 Slow down, zoom, enhance. Check out that lateral flex at the head tube.
Pity they changed the new hub to something unproven. Already recalling it. Why change the LEGENDARY DT Swiss design?? The twin rachet system just worked SO good.
*You DO need tools to swap out bearings. No tools needed to clean and grease the rachet and spring.
More spokes means more watts needed to hold the same given speed. My old Mon Chasseral still going strong. Rim brakes for life!
If you read the DT Swiss website its not a recall. I had was worried about my new DT Swiss 240 exp hubs and contacted the service center and they quickly sent me updated parts. 3k mikes since the update I've had ZERO problem. If you're that worried about it just buy the updated 350, its essentially the old 240S hub since they updated it. Good on DT Swiss for pushing the limits and trying new things. You also need tools to remove the bearings in the old 240S hubs so its really not that much different.
Cheaper to produce .
That was a wheely interesting video
The year 2024 and a more mature looking Ollie is introducing us to the latest wheel set from a GCN partner company. "These new wheels have been completely redesigned based on the latest research and, in simple terms, everything you've ever previously been told about wheels is in fact wrong. Over the next few minutes I will make you feel rubbish about your existing wheels and explain why you need to part with thousands of £/$ so for a brief time you can feel smug and superior while convincing yourself you can actually tell the difference from your old wheels. That is of course until we produce another video explaining why these new wheels are in fact wrong and you need to buy something else."
that’s the thing about science and engineering. it evolves and develops. The Spitfire was the best single seat fighter in 1939, it wasn’t in 1940! the Fw190 was, which was then eclipsed by various designs such as the p51d 🤓
So in days of Yore it was very cross windy then??
Better the dt swiss erc 1100 35mm, or the shimano dura ace c36?
does it have a rim brake version?
We're probably not even allowed to ask these days..
Depth I'd choose depends on the conditions I'm expecting: we had an autumn storm I got caught in a couple weeks back, first time riding “deep” wheels (4cm) in the wind and that was... exciting. I haven't had any trouble with them up until then, but I now regret giving up my old wheels because I can see myself using them again, if only on truly windy days.
I think I’m going to go for the 1100 35!
Steering moment - your example showed the wind hitting the front side of the wheel, causing rotation around the steerer tube axis, but in reality, surely the wind is more likely to hit the windward face of the wheel in its entirety? This would cause a deflection on a different axis with the pivot point on the ground, pushing the rider over. The rider's reaction to being pushed over is to rebalance by steering into the direction of the wind.
My new Canyon Endurace came with these wheels. I returned the bike because the front wheel has a tendency to catch wind and wobble. A car passes you and your front wheel wobbles. Was nervous on downhills as it wants to drift. Nice wheels but in even moderate wind it was hard to keep it straight.
Dear Ollie, you are risking your life...
Your front brake caliper is mounted for a 160mm disc while it seems you are riding a 140mm disc. The pads only grabs the edges off the disc until they are worn in and press against each other. At this point you have basically zero brake force.
Must've been that most incompetent of home mechanics he was talking about!
This will never happened to rim brake
@@matthewho1053 Bigger or smaller rim diameter; height and/or angle of the pad.
@@matthewho1053 rim brake obsessed person trying to be relevant
real men never brake.
I believe my lightbicycle rims are in this shape since a couple of years.
Pretty much. I have the AR56, ridden them in storms and they don't budge. Stable AF, 1500 grams and less than £600
My AR56 with dtswiss 180 exp 36t ratchet comes at 1428g. Even lighter then the 45mm dt swiss 1100. Never felt any twitch and its stiffness is comparable to most big brands. At that kind of price dtswiss is charging for the 1100, i can buy 2 sets of AR56 and with spare change to upgrade other parts of my bike.
I think I prefer the sound of the 240 hubs.
7:20 home mechanic lol 😂
Companies like DT Swiss spend so much time and effort on making a better wheel, but no time making it cheaper.
basically any swiss brands
Performance costs...
To put it into perspective, I found the set in 45mm depth for EUR 1900. I am eyeing a pair of 45mm from a Germany small brand at EUR 1100. Weight is also 150g lighter on this German brand one. Even if these really are a nice innovation and more stable, 73% more expensive. That is steep. And a tad heavier as well. Now compared to some other name brands like ZIPP these look great of course.
What is the German small brand for EUR 1100..? 😁 Thanks
@@carlrice8332 lambda-racing. Leeze are also an option. And by now there are several Chinese options out there, and let's not pretend, the Chinese have the know-how, all the carbon manufacturing is outsourced to them, so they are the ones with the actual manufacturing expertise.
I have a set of the ERC wheels and I went for the 45. After all it does look cooler.
Looks like there’s a lot of drag on the free hub
Good to see the V-U profile of my Light Bicycle carbon rims are endorsed by DT Swiss AND Hambini 😁
Which ones you got? Looking into some right now :)
I bought the AR56 because of Hambini's chart and they're amazing. Lighter and more stable than my old 40's.
I bought ar56's rim brake 21 mm internal. There's a 23mm internal width variant too
Interesting thing about "stall"
Realized Ive been experiencing that all these years with my Chinese wheelset. It's not too bothersome but on the steepest descents it's evident. Makes it a very nervous time on the bike.
DT Swiss has released a sub par aero design in an outdated format for an exorbitant price, well done marketing dept. Let's not forget those exp hubs have been recalled.
Hambini “ hold my beer” 😂
Boyd has offered this exact same rim design for years now with the Carbon 36 Rims. I got my Boyd carbon rims custom built with Sapin double butted round spokes and White Industries CLD hubs which made for some of the best wheels I've ever used. Bladed spokes are for dummies because they help to catch wind and throw the bike too. I installed 25mm tires which works out to 28mm when installed on the wheel. I'd never buy anything from DT Swiss but thanks GCN for the plug anyway.
I thought crosswind twitch on wide rims was due to wide rims acting as a sail rather than stall …
DAMN BOY, ENJOY THE MOVIE. NEXT YEAR WILL BE THE SAIL EFFECT, BUT FOR NOW LET'S SWALLOW THIS...
I believe aerodynamically those two things are the same thing.
Nice Ad for DT Swiss.
"for even the most incompetent home mechanic". Hi Hank!
🤣👍
I think they should have gone with magnetic bearings. Even less friction that way.
When you're talking about how easy they are to service, you forgot to mention the hidden nipples where you need to take the tyre and rim tape off when you need to true them. Other than that they do seem like a nice pair, and i've had a pair of dtswiss wheels for years and they seem to be indestructible!
He didn’t, clearly states it at 11:33.
@@davideastwood6365 no but in the context of "easy to service". Sure they can claim anything, but eventually one has to true the wheels anyway, and things are much cumbersome with hidden nipples.
lol DT Swiss reinvented the Rimbreak rim profile
Ohhhh and i love Banana bread!!
7:18 😂
I won’t run anything deeper than 30mm because:
1. I have a “climbing bike” not an “aero bike” and I think deep sections look weird on lightweight bikes
2. I only weigh 60kg , so yeah, don’t wanna make life difficult when there’s a light breeze haha
1 watt gain for having internal nipples, I'd take the penalty just for the convenience of external. Why these companies are still trying to sell us that inconvenience. Specially for the home mechanic.
While the bike industry ogled tech "innovations" at the shows for the last 30 years, utility and economy quietly sneaked out under the tent and eloped.
If you wanna do it properly you have to remove the tire anyway 🤷🏻♂️ yes there is still the rim tape but it’s like 5 minutes more than externals
just wait, in a couple of years they will come out with a new shape and sell some more wheels.
Yes …probably make a “ rectangular full carbon wheel”😜😜😜😜
I like the wider internal width, also if a shallow wheel can maintain aerodynamics of a deep wheel all the better these are for cross winds.
"Ollie has taken both new models out for a spin to provide you with his SPONSORS first impressions"
I like DT swiss but wish there was less commercial focus and more info in the 'review'. Eg. Comparison to competitors / reasons for spoke lacing / tubeless v tubetype comparision eg. tubeless easy to mount? Cassette compatibility / comes with skewers or not etc.
Personally I am using Legend PRO 38 hand built wheels in France with DT 240 swiss hubs and spokes, carbon rims made in Asia to their spec, with buyer options of hubs / tension / decals etc for 1500 euro a pair, and 1300 grams a pair + people you can call for any queries during office hours. 1yr / 7k on the clock and zero issues (calliper, tubeless ready version ), I wont be changing anytime soon.
A more narrow hub will weaken lateral strength and stability ... No nipple rims have bin around for many years ... It seems Aero is getting out of control.. Aero is the only thing they can think to work on to sell us the next product...
Yea seems like it…these companies are milking the aero game for all its got…
It's a bicycle and they're comparing it to F1 cars and airplanes. I have mentioned many times that they don't even take in account the legs moving in their Arrow testing..
Lets see what the next drip of cycling technology we get.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed yea its really crazy comparing something going 500kmh to a cyclist goig 35 is really a joke!
And they also dont add spokes in the digital aero analysis… real great Engineering!
@@sempi8159 And the back of the bike is aero for no reason ha ha ha your legs are in front.. we should roll the bikes down a hill without a rider to test them by their thinking
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed yea honestly!
where’s the freehub sound check?!?!
Frankly, 35-42mm wheel height is all you need. Anything more than that, is for cosmetic purposes which you see often with average riders.
DurianRider is feeling smug now lol
So dt say wider bearing stance in the back wheel improves bearing life , but reduce it in front wheel for less areo drag , 🤔
Considerably more load on the rear, and aero is less important at the back. Compared to lower load on the front, and more important aerodynamics. Almost like that makes sense isn't it?
Anyone can't stop looking at the winky?
For just a slight gains in speed, spend so much money. Deep profile rims, bought it just for the looks of it😂🤣😂🤣
In my experience deeper is generally better than faster....
😁
An airfoil stalls when its critical angle of attack is exceeded.
You do a much better job of doing an infomercial than Alex, Ollie. It was interesting and educational, not just parroting the website.
So DT swiss just copied the profile of Yoeleo wheels? Lol the shape pictured looks the same
"For even the most incompetent of home mechanics" -- I was wondering how they found my picture?? Oh wait, that's Hank I think.
I bought some CADEN 60 mm wheels, and they are most unnerving to ride. Even in low wind conditions, I feel like I'm tram lining. I thought there was something wrong with my bike. It must take energy to do this, so I fear I have wasted my £$
So DT Swiss compares the old 50mm U-shape to the new 45mm deep U-V to get a 50% redux?
Begs the question, what would a 45mm U-shape redux by itself be, eh? (Remember all those pros riding shallower wheels)
Too expensive. Better/lighter wheels available in Germany that cost less than even the "lower priced" version of these.