When Are Inner Tubes BETTER Than Tubeless?
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- When is an inner tube a better option than tubeless? Tubeless tyres are great for cycling, with a lot of advantages such as lower rolling resistance and excellent puncture protection. However, there are some disadvantages too. Alex and Ollie give five examples of when it would actually be best to use inner tubes on your bike instead of running a tubeless set-up.
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Do you prefer tubeless or inner tubes? 🧐
Inner tubes for me, for several reasons
- I very rarely puncture even on something like a GP5000. Changing a tube 4/5 times per 8000km isn't a deal breaker for me.
- Tyre swap. I swap tyres a few times a year, especially in Winter (studded to slicks and vice versa). I don't want to deal with sealant every few weeks and clincher tyres are much easier to fit. Studded tures are all clinchers too.
- Sealant mess. I was once sprayed all over from someone else's tyre until it sealed. It was difficult to wash. No, thank you.
- Unreliability of the tyre/rim/sealant interface. Years on, I still hear mechanics speaking about how some tyres just don't don't sit well on rims, and how sealants vary a lot, etc. Road clinchers just seem more predictable.
- Clinchers with tubes (inluding TPU) are much cheaper, but only marginally slower.
- For every rider I see plugging a tubeless tyre, I see another one popping a tube in.
- I don't need to upgrade my pump and rims to ride my bike.
Lightweight Michelin inner tubes for me,I don't mind carrying spare tubes and doing patches.💯👌🏻🚴♀️
TPU inner tubes😎
Tubes. I ride runner tubes with slime and i dont get flats. Also the tires stay inflated much longer
Horses for courses. TPU is the way to go for club rides and audax. Tubeless for gravel and MTB where low pressure is king.... and I prefer my gravel bike for commuting, exploring and touring.
Sponsors having a meltdown
All their sponsors provide products in both tube and tubeless
Prob Vittoria are sponsoring now.
@@dh7314Mucoff as well?
@@dh7314but most "new trendy" products that are heavily pushed, are much more expensive, require more and complex maintenance and thus are best for profit
They didn’t pay the tubeless tax on time
I tried tubeless tyres for almost a year, and ultimately went back to clinchers and tubes, partly because of an unfortunate roadside debacle that involved a serious puncture, spraying sealant, rain, a very stubborn tyre, bleeding fingers, and copious tears. I'm now using TPU tubes and standard clinchers, and am happy with that setup: the performance is as good or better than tubeless (if you don't try to ride on tubeless tyres with tubes inside), punctures are infrequent and relatively easy to repair, and the insides of my wheels are not full of disgusting rotating glue.
I don't think this makes me a luddite; one shouldn't feel the need to embrace every innovation that comes along, if that innovation doesn't meet your particular needs.
No need to embrace every new bit of tech! Great to hear that you gave it a try but decided it wasn't for you 🙌 Are there any other bits of bike tech that you aren't a fan of?
Well said. Tubeless tires are nearly impossible to mount without a special tool to pull it over the rim. Also, when the puncture doesn’t seal it ends up squirting all over the u derided of the bike gram and onto your shoes. Then you have the mess to deal with and the sticky sealant picks up grass, dirt and stones. Fun times indeed. I couldn’t go back to inner tubes fast enough.
same for me
@sventice can you explain the part “if you don’t try to run on tubeless tires with inner tubes inside?” What’s wrong with this setup?
@@simonefava7921 Running tubeless tyres with tubes results in a significantly higher rolling resistance than either tubeless or standard clinchers with TPU tubes.
As a Luddite I have noticed that new bike tech never makes cycling less expensive
you're right. A Di2 groupset was only for dura ace, now it's for ultegra and 105.
But all that's happened is the middleweight hero 105 has become very expensive.
Neither does inflation or greed
Only Ozark Trail makes cycling less expensive they even have a gravel bike now!
In my opinion, inner tubes (TPU tubes set up especially) are also superior for hill climb. TPU tube + standard clincher tire set up is often lighter than TLR tire (heavier) + the slime stuff.
Especially if using a lighter tube. I'm having excellent luck so far using a tube spec'd for a smaller diameter tire, as per a 23/25c tube for a 32c tire, both being quality (Conti GP for instance).
Used tubeless setup before. Its good on the rides, but the setup and the maintenance is just time consuming, quite impractical for a weekend warrior like myself. Then I tried TPU, and been using it for 2yrs now with zero complaints. Simple setup, very practical and reliable in my experience. Rolling resistance improvement is a plus as well. TPU inner tubes FTW.
Lol yeah maintenance is tuff on tubeless I put sealant in once a year or a tire change, haven’t had a flat in years knock on wood! I’ve had a plug kit for years that I haven’t used yet!
Yep, TPU light, compact and no faff.
One more for TPU's, good rolling resistance, easy maintenance, and lightest configuration. With the plus of recycling as well.
Maintenance? What are you on about?
@@triggword7648So you are basically me 😂
I prefer inner tubes. Just old school, I guess. To me, they’re simpler.
Nothing wrong with simple! Whatever gets you out on the bike 🙌
As I've gotten older I've found the less I need to worry about before a ride the better. Thus when going for a quick daily ride I'll almost always grab my slightly older roadbike with tubes and mechanical shifting over my newer and technically faster bike with EPS and tubeless tires as I don't need to top up the air or worry about batteries dying
Not getting flats is simplest
Thanks for validating my need to stay with tubes. Regular tubes for the commuter and TPU for the road bike.
I'm an ultra endurance rider and personally I use tubeless because I don't want any delays changing inner tubes when I join ultra endurance events! But there is a technique, I use wider 700x30c tire with 56/53 psi pressure because in my experience that pressure doesn't overwhelm the system. Anything 60 below for road use is good. It's those 100 psi guys who always have problem with tubeless. And I always bring a tire plug and that usually is enough.
These days, I actually feel unconfident riding bikes with inner tubes as i feel I'm always going to get a flat tire. I feel more confident with tubeless.
Also ultra endurance rider, have done 6 events now, longest 1630km, shortest 500km, #7 in two weeks will be 1000km. Conti GP5000 and TPU tubes for all at 80-90psi and zero punctures. Touch wood.
Yup, 100% this. I've run tubeless on MTB for years, but my one attempt at tubeless on the road bike wasn't good; My 700x28C tyres needed ~80PSI in them and that was enough to overwhelm the sealant TWICE, both times making a day-ruining mess of both me and the people behind me. When tubeless sealant doesn't seal, you're a fithly glue-speweing hazard to yourself and anyone following you. Since going back to tubes (TPU), I've heard that the Silca sealant is better at higher pressures, but I'm now "once bitten, twice shy".
My wife uses tubeless with Vittoria Air-liner inserts. She often rides alone and previously worried a lot (A LOT) about punctures, and the inserts enable riding home with no worries. They have dramatically increased her joy of riding, and someone else (me) does all the work of mounting the 0:35 tires with inserts. She is happy with topping up the pressure before each ride to be able to not even think about punctures now. A perfect candidate for tubeless tires.
I ride a couple of times a week, uncompetitively. I put heftier tyres on in winter. I get one, maybe two punctures a year on average. Yes, replacing a tube on the roadside is a pain but really, it’s about 15 mins each time. This is less work than the upkeep of tubeless tyres & a lot less messy. I would still need to carry a spare tube & a pump. Tubeless tyres are expensive. I simply don’t see the benefits for me
That's fine! Tubeless isn't for everyone, we would recommend giving it a try but the most important thing is just to keep riding 💨
With TPUs getting cheaper and more available, it seems we've done full circle!
04:21 love how Ollie starts looking at Alex like "WTF are you on about" 😂 A) tubed setup can be lighter not heavier B) A maybe 1W difference in RR ain't gonna be the reason you can ride together...
That's the look of love 😂
It's the look of 'i hope alex doesnt break out into his condescending cackle again'
I think the obvious time tubes are an advantage is for bikes that don't get ridden often. I use tubeless on all my off road bikes but for road bikes, only the bikes I ride every week get tubeless. The rest have tubes so the sealant doesn't dry out while it's hanging in the shed.
that sounds fair, and even then, the effort you have to put into tubeless is literally just topping up sealant twice (or even just once) a year.
Tubeless are absolute king everywhere, except maybe if ten grams extra really makes all the difference for you (it won't).
Can't wait for the next video titled, "When are rim brakes BETTER than disc brakes?"
Another factor is the absolute joy of repairing an inner tube, sandpaper, chalk and all!
I still have rim brakes on all my bikes: lighter, much cheaper, way less maintenance, less noise and since I don't ride in rain or mud, perfectly adequate braking.
"When are rim brakes BETTER than disc brakes?" Anytime they're the only brakes that fit on your bike 🤣
They will always be better
I can totally see a benefit to disc brakes for off road and with carbon wheels on road. However my bikes have aluminium wheels and my Campagnolo dual pivot rim brakes are awesome, admittedly in the rain they are less powerful but then tyre grip is reduced so perhaps helps prevent losing the front on a wet downhill corner!
Also in professional racing I’ve seen riders lose their place in a breakaway due to the time taken for a wheel change with disc brakes. In the past a fast wheel change meant the rider could get back on.
@@arthurhood8030 with carbon tubulars there is no need for disc brakes either as the profile of the rim is much stronger
I'm a hobbyist with a handful of road bikes and simply don't have the time to replace sealant all the time. Waxing all the chains is already taking enough time, so TPU inner tubes is the most practical solution for me. Haven't had a puncture in a year, perhaps also due to the wider 28mm tires?
I only used butyl so far but schwalbe silento on my mountain bike and I literally cycle over broken glass without puncture, looking to try tpu in future on road bikes as rolling resistance is lower than tubular or I would of stayed with tubular for commuting
@@mlee6050of what?
@@sepg5084 did you not read all?
I don’t understand when people say waxing is time consuming. I put the warmer on while I sit and watch tv. The time it takes is significantly less than when I degrease my oiled chains. 5 mins of actual work in waxing a chain unless you stand around watching it. Initial prep on the first chain is maybe 15 mins.
@@dh7314 maybe if they have a single chain than do like 3-5 at a time, I watch mine as do on my cooker top in a saucepan I believe it called, the deep pot, I use a spoke to lift out chain and hold it as a square with quick link loosely in so not clear place for pin
I use and have always used tubes. They are simple, cheap, no mess and I am used to them. I have a cerebular coodination issue and the mess I would get in with sealant would no be ordinary.
I've recently switched over to TPU tubes on my road bike. I still see the benefit of tubeless for my gravel and MTB riding for the puncture resistance and dialing in PSI for the variable terrain but I recently lost my patience messing around with all the required upkeep for road riding where the benefits don't seem as tangible. I'd love to see GCN make a video comparing TPU, latex tubes and a tubeless setup with the same tubeless-ready tires/rims in the same scientific way that we saw on a recent clip comparing the three tube options. For me, I'd love to see the numbers objectively comparing TPU tubes and a tubeless setup.
I can spoiler it to you. There won't be an y difference in time or comfort, is all placebo.
Differences are puncture resistance, maintenance and how easy or hard are to manage them, plus the air loss of course.
Tubeless on road is trash, sealent won't seal due to high pressures, plus requires a LOT of maintenance and is messy as hell.
Latex, butyl or tpu?
Látex lose aire too fast, so out of the question, butil or tpu? Do you really lack space to carry butyl spares? Weight and rolling resistance won't make any difference at this scale, is all down to cost and space.
@@nemure I just wanna know which ones lose air slower, specially for my commuter that lives in a bike parking in my destination train station when I go to work
@@PTSeTe butyl are the ones who keep air longest
Ive used tubeless for over 10 years on mtb and 4 on my road bikes. With the exception of one brand of tyre i have never found it too muuch faff. I have also benefitted from loads of times where i havent had to stop to fix punctures. (Which are more likely to happen in the cold and wet). I admit that i carry a spare tube incase i have a catastrophic puncure but that us just common sense. You can ride whatever you want, there is plenty if choice out there. The important thing is that you enjoy your riding.
We second that! Enjoy the riding.. tubeless or tubes 🙌 Great to hear that you get on with tubeless. For most people that ride a lot it makes sense
Every time I do some maintenance on my tubeless setup I swear I'm going back to inner tubes... with the price of tubeless tires getting a bit crazy I may actually do it.
The reason why I have never tried tubeless tires on my bike is because of the sealant you have to use.
If we ever get tubeless tires for bikes in the same manner like we have tubeless tires for cars then I would happily try them.
Until then it would be tires with inner tubes for eternity.
Same thoughts
Uuuum I may be wrong but I think they also use it in cars? If not then what is all that gunk on my wheel after the mechanic changes a tire?
@@benoitbvg2888 that's lube to help the tyre on the rims.
So you should check the new Hutchinson Challenger. It's an endurance tyre, the tubeless version doesn't need the sealant to work (because you have a "shield" to keep the air).
@@florenceetalexismartel8365Yes, and it weighs over 300 grams in size 28mm.
Another thing, regarding puncture resistance, is that if you're getting flats often, simply try another brand of tire. I used to run one popular brand of tire (feel free to guess), and got _a lot_ of practice fixing flats. I switched to a the most commonly recommended "puncture resistant" tire, and it rode much worse, and still gave me tons of flats. Eventually I randomly tried another brand of tires when I saw some on sale, and suddenly started getting way less flats, in spite of the fact that I was going from a tire being marketed as puncture resistant, to a really thin walled flexy racing tire.
One one of my bikes, I've got some schwalbe marathon supreme tires, and the only flat I've ever had on them was when I was running them tubeless and the rim tape blew out and ripped through a spoke hole. After cleaning that mess, I switched it to tubes, and haven't had a flat tire in years. They aren't a particularly fast tire, but I've had great luck with some s-one tires (more recently renamed to the g-one speed), which I also haven't had a flat on, and they do feel like a reasonably speedy tire.
If you take the puncture protection out of the equation it really reduces the benefit vs pain ratio. Here in Japan, the roads are generally in very good condition, there isn't rubbish on them and there are very few plants with thorns that litter the road. I'm running Panaracer Agilist 23C tires which weigh a mere 180 grams. No punctures. At all. Stick a TPU inner tube in there and the minimal increase in rolling resistance over tubeless is more than compensated for by ease of use. You're also going to have to try pretty hard to get a lighter setup than that with tubeless.
It's pretty situational, but I think it's flat out wrong to discount tubes. It's easy to see the kind of conditions you ride in, hook them up to the value your're tying to get and then imagine everybody in the world is in the same situation. It's not really the case. I've lived in the UK before and I'd happily put up with the inconvenience of tubeless there, but for the riding I do here... I currently can't be bothered. Having said that, I know of people here who swear by tubeless -- though they ride a *lot* more than me, so they have more chances for punctures.
I have many bikes (n+1) and inner tubes are far better if you don’t use some bikes in a while. Also much cheaper. Only exception is MTB or fat gravel tyres.
Tubeless for off road all the way! It's the way to go 🙌
The rolling resistance benefits are all well and good, but I'm never going to notice that difference. I'll stick to tubes, thanks.
And if you go latex or TPU, there is no rolling resistance difference compared to tubeless anyway!
I communte to work 27 miles. I prefer tubeless - I will take all power savings I can get so I can continue enjoying my rides through the week. Plus, after 2 nails stuck to my tires already, I am ok rolling the dice with self-healing tires.
Butyl tubes have always been reliable for me. In fact, my travel bike was in a storage case undisturbed for nearly 8 years when I decided to bring it back from hibernation. Tires were flat, but with a quick pump and they held air like brand new. I can only imagine what a glob of tubeless sealant would be like if left in a tire for nearly a decade.
After 8 years you should change the tires and tubes no matter the setup. The sealant would just be dry is all...
Tubeless certainly should be used regularly! It's not the sort of tech you can just leave around 👀
I'm 71 and probably technically out of date. However , my Challenge Gravel Grinder Race open tubular 700 x33 clinchers are low maintenance , the bead can be popped at about 60 PSI and I've had one flat in 5 years of these tires. I run butyl tubes rated for max 28mm to make them lighter and easier to install , and I run them at 30-35 PSI. If you are not out to beat the world performance-wise but like hard , rough riding then life doesn't get much simpler or dependable. I love riding more than maintenance.
That was the perfect advert for NOT going tubeless! I think they are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I can change an inner tube in just a few minutes and take the opportunity to have a short break, take a drink and maybe have a snack. Tubeless just appear to be too much trouble and don't guarantee a puncture free ride. If you still need to carry a spare tube with you, just use inner tubes!
Glad to hear that this problem doesn't exist in your life but it doesn't mean that others don't suffer from certain issues, keep it in mind please!
Guys the issue is tubeless on the road isnt an improvement on say latex + clincher. The only time its worth the hassle and risk of failure on the road is may be competitive TT or a supported race with mechanics 😁. Leave tubeless to off road riding were low pressures/big tires are more suitable 😁 I tried tubeless on road and have gone back to latex tubes and descent tire like GP5000 which i change well before it wears out and the last time i got a puncher was around 30,000 km from hedge cuttings.
You missed anyone who isn't using tyres wider than 25mm. Tyre pressures at 25mm tend to be too high for sealant to work well. I hate tubeless though because it's made rims and tyres so difficult to fit, not the sealant but just actually getting tyres on a rim and seated properly.
People ride with tyres narrower than 25mm? 😂
I’ve done a lot of miles on 25mm tyres tubeless without any issues at all. However you do need to run them at lower pressures than a lot of people want to, and also if you are towards the heavier end of cyclists then narrow tubeless tyres are not a good idea
Still riding 23mm, have been using latex tubes for 15 years now and the only change I’ve made is I now run lower pressure (typically 85 front and 95 rear). Suits me just fine, I did try 28s but they felt slow and dead so back to 23s. Once my stock has run out I’ll probably switch to 25s. Incidentally I just don’t get punctures, I use Vredestein tyres and the only failures I get is of the inner tubes perishing eventually if I don’t change them perhaps after 4 - 6 years of use.
Exactly. I’ve your bike doesn’t have clearance for wider tyres, stay away from tubeless. According to the Silca tyre pressure calculator I need almost 8 bars. Once you puncture, the sealant doesn’t work. It keeps coming out as soon as you inflate the tyre.
@@harrie974 8bars 😳
At what user weight and tyre size? Thats about 116psi, which seems a huge pressure for the calculator to suggest for tubeless.
For reference I am 76kg and run 25mm tubeless at 76psi front 81psi rear (as recommended by the SRAM calculator). Have done thousands of miles on this, everything from crappy winter riding to fast road races and crits. Has always worked fine with orange seal sealant (but didn’t work well with Muc Off)
I use the old fashion black inner tubes. They hold air well. Haven't had flats for years since I started using expensive tires. When going on group rides, I generally don't have air up the tires. So I have a better chance of getting to the ride on time. And of course they are much less expensive and less work.
@@kevinbourke4038 same here. 105, 11 sp. Mechanical .no major mountain roads here. Rim break pads last for years and I rarely ride when it's icy or wet. The brakes are awesome.
I’m a verifiable caveman. Tubs, with tape (NO glue!) are still my preferred choice. They’re quick and easy to install, no mess, incredibly fast, and crucially - SAFE. At 100 quid per tyre they’re expensive but once you’ve ridden Vittoria’s Corsa G2.0 tubs it’s difficult to ride anything else. I haven’t had a puncture in well over 3000 miles on current set. They look as good as the day I got them. Today I put 60 miles on a brand new set of GP5000 clinchers and, putting aside a slow puncture, they didn’t feel anywhere near as impressive. It’s all personal preference though. Clothes, diet/fitness, and a well maintained bike are the biggest performance/speed enhancers - not tyres.
I totally agree, I use tubs too and Corsa’s are such a great ride and you can’t beat them.
I can fit 2 tubs with tape in 15 minutes and it’s clean and simple.
I felt so much safer in the Alps this year knowing that my tyres are stuck on when descending at 80kph.
I was at the start of a TOB stage a few weeks back and was surprised to see a couple of teams still on Corsa tubs.
I asked the mechanic of the Belgian team why and he said because they are the best.
Make sure that the tape doesn’t dry out- might find your tyre rolling off the rim on a turn. Always a good idea to replace every season. On the track I use tubs that are glued (tape not allowed). Tyres are maintained every season. For the road I have a couple bikes with tubs too - also glued these are maintained every two seasons. For the road you can inject sealant into tubs. Sealant is not allowed on the track, nor are tubeless tires or hookless rims, for obvious safety reasons
Well… always carry a Dynaplug (or similar), when going Tubeless. The sealent doesn’t close every puncture. Saved me on a multi day trip, vacation and on a commute to work. It even takes less time than changing an inner tube. Push it in, reinflate the tire and you are good to go again. But it isn’t bullet proofed as well: If the plug needs some additional sealant to seal and you’re in wet conditions , it won’t do that! It’s because the sealant doesn’t dry when the tire is wet. (Double pain then!)
To sum up: I only recommend tubeless to tech-friendly friends with disclaimers like this.
I went on a self-supported ride for a couple of days and chose to go tubeless. Before that, I was ONLY using TPU and latex tubes. I am usually good at avoiding flats (my tubes usually last several months or indefinitely from getting punctures) but didn't want to deal with trying to switch or patch a tube on the side of the road losing valuable daylight. My routes were never far from civilization. The pressure had dropped a little on the second day on the front only, but not enough to warrant a trip to the closest LBS to get air. At the end, I never touched my wheels.
I'm so happy with tubeless now, my latest set of wheels are hookless.
Yes, I'm somewhat of a Luddite, but it's probably because all of my bikes are at least 21 years old. Same for the narrow wheels that "might" be able to fit a 28mm tire.
Traveled a 10-day trip with endurance carbon road bikes through Montenegro/Albania. Inner tubes Butyle did the job really well. Constant air pressure, no pumping.
Tried tubeless on a road bike, rear tyre seemed prone to punctures which did seal over the first 5 rides then the tyre totally failed. Rubbish. My GP5000’s with tubes suffer 1 to 2 punctures a year as long as you don’t wear the tyres too thin. I fail to see any benefit. All the scenarios you mention could basically be summed us as - “when you really need your bike to work - use inner tubes”
FINALLY! People are waking up to the machinations of BIG BIKE!
How apt. As much as GCN is Big Bike. We still love them. Been here since the start but stopped watching videos daily about 3 years ago. Marketing content aside goodchannel. I had to look up machination btw. Worryingly.
Loved tubeless when only 2 companies were invested in it. It's only gotten better from there. Living in the land of goatheads is unforgiving. 3-4 flats a week down to maybe 2 plugs for the life of each tire. I've also only had to toss in 3 tubes in the last +80k miles on my road bike
Bike tech hit the point of diminishing returns a long time ago. I will say that the marginal gains in performance made by these 'machinations' definitely matter if you're racing competitively, though. And even if they're drowning in sponsored gear, GCN is pretty open about how effective a basic, affordable road bike setup can be.
@aaronwood2063 when I'm not racing, I really don't care how fast my tires are. But I do care about how well they handle and how smooth they ride. The fastest tires are good with both. Tires have made pretty huge gains in the last 5 years.
*Generally when not speaking of tires, the new UCI rules on tube shapes have resulted in significantly faster bikes
I still use inner tubes simply because the pros vs cons of tubeless weighs heavily on the cons imo. It's more expensive, it's more maintenance, more complicated, and it's a mess. I can comfortably change a tube on the side of the road with my bare hands in a about 5 minutes, once had to work on a friends bike with tubeless ready tires and they were just a nightmare to take off and put back on the rim. They're not infallible either and when you do encounter a puncture that the sealant can't fix then now you're going to have to deal with sealant everywhere, on the side of the road, while putting a tube in. I get AT MOST 2 or 3 punctures A YEAR on Vittoria Corsa tires anyway and that's often only when my tires themselves are near end of life. I live in the Philippines and the roads here are HORRENDOUS. I have to deal with massive potholes, broken glass, and the wire that comes from the carcasses of old car tires on a DAILY basis. I honestly think that if you're getting so many flats that going tubeless is high on your list of priorities then that's simply a skill issue, whether it be bike handling or situational awareness. Any performance advantages are marginal at best and can be rivalled by TPU or Latex tubes anyway. The ONLY place where tubeless makes 100% sense is mountain biking. I even have tubes in my gravel bike!
Spot on. I couldnt Gree more. I ride in Hong Kong. The roads may be a bit better, so I get perhaps 1 flat a year. Tubeless isn't worth the potential hassle.
That said, I've ridden tubeless on my mtb for years and never had a problem.
Horses for courses.
Cheers
Due to the tight tolerances tubeless requires tubeless rims are a PITA to fit tyres to whether you use tubeless or not and these days it's hard to get new wheels that aren't tubeless compatible. I don't have a problem with tubes so why go through all the extra faff for nothing
Inner Tubes. I used to fill them with the green sealant goop, but what I found was that when you repair the tube with either a sticky patch or a glued on rubber repair, the goop gets forced into the glue and reacts with the glue so the patch does not last very long and it turns into a gooey mess. So now I don't use goop, I carry patches so I can repair the tube and re-cycle it. Not being a luddite, I am not prepared to pay the cost of going tubeless. Double Gs or Three Corner Jacks (Emex australis) prickles and broken glass have no mercy on bicycle tyres.
When a tyre shop tells someone their car can't be fixed because of the sealant stuff, they're often accused of lying. It's true though, the goop stops repairs working properly.
I run tubeless on 3 bikes, and have ridden over 30,000 miles without a problem (over 10 years). However, I use tubes in one bike for winter rides (the few days over 40F in Michigan) when the tubeless set up would likely be dried up. This way I don't have to use sealer in the fall.
I tried Tubeless and initially, it was great. However, after getting covered with sealant on my commute bike I had to strip the whole bike to clean, and the lycra was ruined. Then the mess of another few other occasions combined with the tire frustration and not having the nice road bike with tubless compatible rims I went back all tubed (tubeless is more expensive). I did get fewer "snake bites" off-road with tubeless but again it is so easy with a tube to get going. In my opinion, if you racing and every watt matters crack on with tubeless.
I am a techie person and don't mind using tubeless. But I understand those sticking with tubes because of the hassle and mess. It's your bike, setup whatever you like.
Wouldn’t it just be easier to list the few scenarios were tubeless is actually better than inner tubes at this rate? I’m a commuter and occasional tourer, for those reasons I’m sticking with my inner tubes.
Yeah I think that would only be actual racing?
The point of tubeless tyres was so you could run lower pressures and therefore have more grip while mounting biking.
This doesn't apply to road cycling, with a 30mm tyre people will have plenty of grip and masses of compliance over formerly what might have been used a 23mm. The point of tubeless, much like TT tyres, is absolute performance, do you care about 2W per tyre savings? Some people do, most people which is basically anyone not actively in a Race, don't. All while in the last 5 years tubed tyre performance has meant you could have gone from a 15W tyre to a 10W in a standard set up.
Tubeless is faster, and I am sure in some part of the world running a fast tyre is impossible due to road conditions, this is where tubeless might shine, but in places where the roads are okay, punctures are few and far between with modern performance tyres, and with TPU inner tubes your spares are even smaller and lighter than they used to be. TPU inner tubes as spares is where the innovation is!
I have gone back to tubes (CYCLAMI TPU) from tubeless because of the mess. Punctures are still going to happen (especially in Arizona where every tree and bush has thorns) and the pinwheel of sealant drove me crazy. Sealant on the frame, the saddlebag, the bike light, socks, shoes, bib shorts and jersey before the puncture seals. Not huge amounts, just a fine spray all over everything.
I can see tubeless being more trouble than it's worth for road tires. But for gravel, CX, MTB, or anything your run pressures lower than 60psi for, the benefits of tubeless outweigh the cons for me. Bigger tubeless tires on the right setup are no more difficult to remove than tubed tires, and lower pressures mean sealant works better and doesn't spray everywhere
I run my 30 mm Pirelli P Zero road tires at 60 psi, so tubeless works nicely.
Great points guys. Recently travelled for a cycling holiday and the company insisted the set up was tubes not tubeless for exactly these reasons. Love You ……. Bye
Alex still thinks tubeless is a lighter set up. The milk by itself is already heavier than tpu inners. Add to that a heavier tlr outer tyre and your tubeless setup is heavier . So another reason to stick to inner tyres; tubeless is heavier.
I've been using latex inners for years on my endurance bike and my climbing bike. I love the smooth ride especially with 26mm slicks on rough Scottish forestry tracks. Also love the ringing sound they make as you ride and I reckon they're as fast as anything. They cant weigh any more than liquid latex but they're much less faff. Only downside is the need to pump them up every time you ride. I carry a spare butyl inner tube and 2 gas canisters as butyl stands a better chance of bridging a puncture that deflated a latex tube. When they do deflate, latex tubes often make an embarrassing squeak but they are easily patched, same as butyl.
I agree with some of this, but as someone who has done multi day rides in remote places, I'd definitely always go for tubeless for this, fewer punctures is way better, and plugs deal sealant deals with most little punctures, and plugs with nearly everything else.
Were those remote places on or off road? Tubeless off road is go to for sure 🙌
Commuter here...I would really consider it good advice to pair an inner tube ONLY with a tyre with good puncture protection. Having to deal with sealant can be a pain, but having to fix a puncture every few 100 km is no fun either.
I've been commuting for years (8000km/year) with standard tyres and with tubeless set-up . The big advantage of the tubeless is the fact the sealant will repair 90% of the punctures. With the standard tyres, I've time to change the innertube. With the tubeless, I also had punctures but I never had to put an inner tube in !
Try Continental Gatorskin tyres, I swear by them
I use TPU tubes and carry a butyl one as a spare + patches. If I get a flat I patch the TPU tube at home.
Do your TPU patches use glue or glueless? I've just converted to TPU inner tubes.
@@alanpatterson2759 They use their own glue, it takes 30 minutes to cure so won't do it on the road.
I ride tubeless tires and if i have a puncture every 5 years i have a spare TPU tube under my saddle...
@@markusseppala6547 Thanks i see.
Tubes, square taper BBB, front derailleurs, mechanical brakes, rim or disc, steel framesets, yep thats me, a proud Luddite.
Scraping dried out sealant from a bead-blasted Ti frame more of a hassle than setting the tires tubeless, so I gave up on it. Thankfully I haven’t had a single flat in 7 months, which is far more reliability than I ever had with tubeless
As for ultra endurance 30 to 40 ml of sealant into the tube works pretty good yes it will dry out but I think it does more slowly inside the tube . As far as that goes that can be good for commuting to casual rides too because the sealant is very likely to work for most puntures that make it through that last layer of puncture protection . It will also lengthen the air refilling intervals. Heck while you're at it fill it with nitrogen and possibly forget about it for along time. Especially if weight and speed aren't your first concern. For many of us getting to a destination without any flats is most important.
Bikes = Haven't fundamentally changed since the 1800's
Me = Still waiting on that great tech and innovations ...lol
Marketing = Marketing
Slime Self-Sealing Inner Tubes - absolute game changer for me. After four back wheel punctures in two months, two on one 100km Audax ride, I noticed these Slime brand inner tubes in my local Halfords store last August. So I thought I would give one a try, and fitted it on my back wheel. They are a normal butyl tube that contains a sealant. It seemed to work well until last November when I got puncture in, yes, you guessed it, my front tyre! So I now have slime tubes in both front and rear tyres and have not had a puncture in six months (touch wood!). Another advantage is they stop the valve leaking, so I barely need to top up the air in the tyres. Yes, they add a 100g or so of weight, but then again I could lose about 15,000g!! (33 lbs) myself. I will worry about the weight when I am down to my target weight of 70 kg (140 lbs).
That 70 kg is closer to 154 lbs
@@ofeykalakar1 Yep, my bad math!😬
Kudos to the folks behind the camera. The editing on this one was fun
I have tubes on the bikes I use for commuting (a road bike for summer, a MTB for winter) as I find them easier and less maintenance. I have maybe one puncture/year and as I carry a spare tube, a set of tyre levers and a mini pump or a CO2 cartridge it takes just minutes to get moving again.
On my fatbike I use tubeless as there it saves a significant amount of weight (the bike is horribly heavy anyway at about 16 kilograms) and the small air loss is not a problem on the high volume, low pressure tyres so they work really well, there has not been significant loss of pressure from the several punctures I have observed, just a wet patch from the sealant for a while.
My TT-bike has old-school tubulars because good quality second hand carbon rims for those are quite affordable as they are considered obsolete by most "serious cyclists".
they really are the Beavis and Butthead of cycling tech! :D
Inner tubes for me, no question....but I have learned to use smaller dia tubes with larger tires, with great success. The tubes weigh as much as the (high-quality) tire if you use the recommended diameter ones. I'm using *quality* butyl 23/25c tubes w/ 32c tires, no problem so far, and the wheels feel much more spry for it. I ride 80-90psi, and have had no problems, save perhaps for having to pump-up every few weeks, instead of a month or more.
What few flats I have had (two this season) I'm no longer trusting patches. Either the glue is not up to spec, or the patches themselves are unfit for purpose, even using old proven ones. Anyone else noticing this? Self-adhesive patches I've had zero luck with, possibly my penchant for higher pressures exacerbates the bond.
I do still carry a patch kit, but only as an emerg backup if the replacement tube fails.
I'm definitely in the first category. When you're riding a sub £1K bike that came with wheels that aren't tubeless ready it's a big outlay to change (even if I wanted to). Same reason I'm using flat pedals as well, couldn't justify the investment (more the cost of decent shoes than pedals on that one)
Go clipless, it’s much better imo, decathlon do good inexpensive shoes.
I am Going back to tubes today. Been having issues with Tubeless, my second attempt in Years.
Then I went out to the Garage, Yep the Tyres were flat. haha. Gotta clean this stuff off.
Maybe when you run a MTB, and run about 25psi. On my road bike at 110psi, I would never run tubeless. I switched my aero TT time bike from tubeless to tubed.
Thanks guys. No words! ✌🏾
I'm gonna have to disagree with two of these.
1 Commuter - I don't want small punctures making me late for work - having them sort themselves out as I ride is ideal. I also want to be comfy on the bike in work clothes without a shammy so lower pressures are better.
2 Long distance bikepacker - same as above really - want the small punctures to sort themselves out and more comfort is needed when you're in the saddle all day, day after day. A puncture bad enough to need a tube would be just as much pfaff with a tube than without as it's one with serious damage to the tire anyway. You don't bikepack for multiple days without a pump and topping up tires and looking after the drive train become daily rituals anyway.
you can replace an inner tube in less than five minutes. When your tubeless setup breaks, just don't go to work anymore.
@markevinlagsac3252 when your tubeless setup needs a tube, and a plug won't do, then that's a major tire issue that would also probably need a tire boot or inner patch. Same work for that scale of tire issue if it already had a tube...
My 4 years with road tubeless has been mixed, when working it's fine and liked it. Setting up tubeless is what made me switch to clincher with TPU. A few times replacing worn tubeless tyres with new ones, then when it came to inflating, wouldn't go up atall, had to remove sealant and tyre and replace the rim tape then it worked, why the tape leaked when it was previously working I don't know, happened a few times and finally my patience wore thin and had enough. If I were to go back to tubeless then I'd only use the latest rims that don't require any rim tape.
Inner Tubes for all of my bikes. I have 1 flat tyre per year. That’s okay.
I am trying tubeless for the first time and the commuting aspect is the one I'm most interested in because pinch flats are my most common obstacle. Tubeless may do well in removing pinch flats from my equation, and if so, I think it's worth the extra work.
For pinch flats Tubeless is amazing! You can run those lower pressures and not carry the same risks!
My solution to pinch flats has been wider tyres. I'm running 32mm now, and it's nice and comfortable at 50psi, with basically no risk of pinch flats.
Never had a pinch flat since running latex tubes on my road bike. For commuter / utility bike I also never get pinch flats as I run wider tyres with sufficient pressure to avoid them, still with butyl tubes.
IMO, if you're getting pinch flats, it tells you that you're slamming your rim into the ground, and you need to find a way to stop doing that, rather than finding a way to keep doing that without getting flats, while you destroy your rims.
You pretty much covered every scenario of cycling for not using tubeless. In other words, use tubeless when the sun is shining, low wind, perfect temperature and clean road surfaces. And also have a phone-a-friend on stand by for pick up. I'm still riding clincher tube and tubular tires (which by the way are much less of a PITA than tubless). And I am not so much of a traditionalist, I just perfer what works best for having a great productive successful stress free ride. YMMV
I disagree on cycling holidays. Just top up sealant before the trip and it will seal punctures along the way. Brilliant
Latex or tpu inner tubes have the same rolling resistance, are cheaper, way easier to settle and need no maintenance. The all setup is also lighter. It’s that simple for me, I won’t switch to tubeless.
On some of my 12 bikes I actually run tubes with about 2oz of Stans sealant in them. Started doing that in 2014 during a trip to Albuquerque where thorns are overwhelming at certain altitudes. Local bike shop said that is how they keep rolling in those conditions. Hard to argue with 0 flats on the bikes I've setup that way in almost 10 years...
Regular tires/tubes - just need removable valve core tubes for getting the sealant in. Rest of my bikes are normal tubes or tubeless.
Commuter here, using tubes in order not to be stocked halfway between home and work because of some sealant not working, or not being able to seat tire properly.
What's up fellas? I'm glad to see this video. I haven't checked you guys out in quite some time. This is good. Tubeless does have a place in cycling. Just not for beginners or novice. I've always thought they were too messy. Listening to you guys today tells me I was some what right about it. All though, they're great for some; they're not for everyone. Simple is always better. Great advice, and good video. God Bess. Peace!
My road bike complete wheel setup is as follows. Wheels: Specialized Roval Rapide CLX 40's, weighing 1,375 grams. Rear hub: DT Swiss 240 internals with 11-speed freehub. Bearings: Ceramicspeed bearings front and rear. Spokes: 18F/24R DT Revolution spokes. Tires: 25 mm Continental GP 5000's (220 grams each). Inner tubes: Continental Supersonic butyl tubes (50 grams per tube). This wheel setup is great for all-around performance but it shines in explosive, tight criterium races and hilly, crosswind races. This setup is similar to the TDF Specialized S-Works Tarmac road bike. Used by the Soudal-Quickstep Tour De France Team, among others.
I was so proud of my first tubeless setup and went straight back to tubes after my first serious punture. I am never going back.
What's put you off? Some punctures are unfortunately un-avoidable
I appreciate the easy straight talk of these GCN videos. Lately though, I don't love the presenters being cute and goofy. Personally, I watch for information - not entertainment.
I’m torn between TPU super light Butyl and Latex. Use them all. Refuse to put goo in tyres. Just me. Quite happy with ease of tubes. Being ‘ old ‘. Rolling resistance great light tubes whichever kind they are.
Another major reason for not going TL is the investment needed. A new set of wheels easily costs hundreds. Then you still need a set of TL tires, sealant, valves and possibly tape and a plug repair kit.
I use inner tubes that I put a little sealant in. Clean tire change, no flats, a little more weight, but I have peace of mind.
I only ride gravel and dirt nowadays, and the self-sealing feature of tubeless give it a huge advantage . My only problems with tubeless was certain tires not mating well with rims (Panaracer Gravelkings on Spinergy GX rims in my case).
I use tubeless on my MTB and XC bikes and prefer tubes on my road bike.
Last time I changed tires I saw 4 punctures that have been sealed without me ever noticing anything the whole time. Imma keep tubeless setup.
I have once had tubeless setup on my bike. It rides great. However, it is the maintenance on and off ride that put me off. Regular sealant top-ups and the hassle of fitting an inner tube out in the open and re-inflate it, if the tubeless fail to seal the leak - these are the deal breakers. I have since run on TPU tubes and never look back. TPU tubes rides quite similar to tubeless but without these issues as mentioned. Tube replacement in the field can be done quickly as well.
Words that were heard repeatedly in this episode about tubeless setup: “Faff” “mess” “stress” “fuzz”, “complexity” ”maintenance”. And that is just how it is. Tubeless setup for roadbikes is not worth the hassle. You don't have to be a traditionalist, luddite, commuter of long distance endurance rider to realise that. It is just common sense.
Tubeless is more expensive, heavier, more difficult, requires more maintenance and is a pain when it goes wrong. The advantage in rolling resistance is tiny, less than a half watt according to bicyclerollingresistance, compared to clincher plus latex/TPU inner tube. And that is easily negated by the higher weight of the heavier tubeless tire, the rim tape and sealant.
Each to his own off course. If you want to mess around with sealant in your hallway, spend an hour getting a tire on that does not seem to fit, buy a special pump to seat your expensive tire and like to end up on the side of the road covered in sealant you are free to do so.
Nice vid Felix and Dr. Bridgewood. I'll stay a luddite with my 2 and 3X chain rings thank you. I learned when I was young that 'gears are good' and since I'm NOT racing I don't move fast enough to knock off a chain. We won't discuss shifting strategies that involve batteries.....I do Czech my tubeless tyres on the Crockett whenever I ride her though. How often does one need to replace the gunk?
I will tell you how old school I am. I had to Google what TPU is. I have cycled on and off since my early 20s (56 now) I lost my drivers license in the early 90's and commuted to work by bicycle. Discovered I loved cycling and started taking the long way home. Then started riding on the weekends. I frequented a local Performance bike shop and there I discovered thorn resistant tubes. I still use them to this day. Yes they are heavier but I enjoy the piece of mind of hardly ever getting a flat and the two times I have I was able to pull to the side of the road safely because I wasn't rolling on the rim. I have a Trek 1000 SL I bought new in 2006 and it still has the same thorn resistant tubes I installed then. All three of my bikes have them. Won't ride without them.
"Weekend Warrior" is also another type of rider I think doesn't warrant tubeless. I swapped over (to tubeless) and was head over heels to the performance and how they felt - but as someone who isn't riding in the week and even some weekends - the need to keep an eye on the sealant, refilling, cleaning etc just is too much faff, so I'm back to TPUs - racing that's different I'll be on the stans race fluid.
For performance it makes sense. The material added to the casing and bead to make them air resistant reduce suppleness and add weight. If you maintain enough pressure to prevent pinch flats, a lightweight latex or TPU tube with a light, supple casing would make better sense.
Once went out with a friend and she got a 10-12mm cut in the tire. With inner tube it was easy to fix, and I used a plastic bag to cover the cut. The tire resisted until we got home, about 70km. Now that with tubeless was unfixable without an inner tube.
Sponsors started making TPU tubes....
Nice AD GCN
I was doing 14 days through Italy on tubeless... yes, I had to pump one of wheels every other day or so? But as I found out it saved me from few punches. Which I take still as benefit since I hasn't had to stop and repair it, and those 4 minutes on morning to warm myself with pump weren't that much of hassle 😊😊
I disagree about commuters: This is where to me tubeless makes most sense. My commute is where I least want to have a puncture, so tubeless helps with that. Also, the bike is being moved every day so less chance of sealant gunking up in puddles in the tire. Pressure loss is not that bad on a good tubeless setup and since speed is less of a concern on a commute, all it really does is add comfort. I top up my tire pressure maybe once or twice a week. My commuter has full length mudguards, so tubeless spraying about is no concern. And if it does catastrophically fail, I'm rarely in the middle of nowhere. I can just hop on a bus, train or whatever and still get to where I need to be. I've had one single instance in over four years of tubeless commuting where that happened. And I run supple tires with normal puncture protection which feel far nicer than garden hose like tires like Schwalbe Marathons and the likes. I still want my commuter to be fun to ride on shit roads (which I got a lot of where I live).
I just completed a cross country trip on my tubeless tires. During the trip I had one occasion where I lost pressure but I plugged the hole pumped it back up with a co2 cylinder and it held pressure the remainder of the 4400 mile trip. On another occasion I noticed sealant leaking from a small hole but it sealed having lost only a couple of psi. For me tubeless is the way to go. This was a van supported trip so I did have access to a floor pump. On a self supported trip my opinion may have changed.
In my experience the benefits of a tubeless system become really apparent when you score a great tire/rim combo. Setting Vittoria Terreno Zeros over a Fulcrum RapidRed5 was a pain. Very difficult to mount the tires and high pressure initial inflation was a must (no chance in hell you'd be able to do that with a mini pump out in the wild). Plus, the pressure was dropping quite fast. I'm now using Schwalbe G-One Bites on DT Swiss wheels. It took me literally 15 minutes to convert both wheels. Best of it all? Rim/tire seal is just perfect from the get-go and the pressure just holds.
And when tubeless fails, you can still use the spare tube 🤷♂
I have a seldom-used bike I keep tubes in, just feels better knowing I can grab it and ride at any time without worrying if the sealant has dried out.
I use tubeless on both of my bikes in the summer, but in the winter I go with tubes on the other one. I switch that one to studded tyres for the winter and they are not tubeless compatible. That is the one thing I hate about tubeless, and it's changing tyres. Whether you just want different ones for different use or need to replace one... it's always a bigger hassle. I've been thinking about getting a spare set of wheels (and rotors and a cassette) for the winter tyres so I could just swap the set easily when I need them, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
EDIT: I have had both good and bad experiences with tubeless. I had a pair of Vittoria Corsas (N.EXT) and the other one would not hold air properly no matter what. I had to top it up every other day, and when I got punctures on it, for some reason they never sealed properly either. They would seal initially, but would pop open the next day or later on the same day and start leaking sealant again. The other one had no problems, and I rode it until it basically had no rubber left at all, and it held air perfectly. All through the winter in the storage, and the pressure had gone down only a bit. I think I had a puncture on that one too once, because I noticed some white spray on my fork after a ride and the pressure had gone down a bit, but I couldn't find the hole and the tire never leaked again. Now I use Cinturato Velos again and I love them. They were relatively easy to set up and I don't think I've punctured once. If I have, I haven't noticed. And they feel very fast.