Fixing Wobble is a BIGGER ISSUE than we thought! | We need YOUR help!!!
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- čas přidán 3. 10. 2023
- Just another day in the office and just another routine breakdown of a throw metric. NOT! Today we try to figure out wobble and fail miserably. Pls send halp
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O:00 - Intro stuffs
0:46 - The student
1:42 - Hypotheses
2:02 - Calamity ensues
4:31 - Help us
4:55 - What we do know
8:07 - Get to work - Sport
If you look at Mr Panda's release at 1:40, you will notice that he turns the wrist up / pushes the thumb down at the moment of release. Compare it to Gilbert's slomo's you will notice that the wrist travels longer on the same plane, like slapping someone backhanded even after releasing. That is why Panda's release is not clean but wobbly. Panda's palm faces down, not to the left after the release.
This comment makes the most sense to me, out of the 77 comments currently posted.
I bet my coins on this comment and to add on this as someone who also goes pacifist rules with no slapping people. More I get wrist turn more my fingers hook the rim while ripping out.
Addition to this comment my own thought would be that when thumb is really close to edge of disc then index finger might hook up when wrist rotation starts and that would add some wobble on putters and mids.
Straightening index finger out of rim gets away of my wobble ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I will say Mcbeth has a super clean release as well. It is all about holding the angle past the hit long enough that you don’t take anything off access.
When I first began work on backhand several years ago, I had an amazingly awful amount of wobble. Because I was nose up and wobbling; I couldn’t get a backhand to go anywhere. When I got the nose down, I then started flipping everything. Consider that off axis torque on forehand will give a good turn and burn. I would predict that excessive wobble is excessive oat due to some kind of technique problem. For me it was swing plane vs hand position creating a oat issue.
I think less wobble would be a slightly higher efficiency throw, but at some level if you have spin in the 1000+ range or maybe even less, you probably don’t have too much wobble to hurt the throw. I also think that throwing over 70+ mph means you have to squeeze the disc to point of distortion so hit would have a little more wobble.
I concur with Doctor Jaani.
Ya, if you go frame by frame you can see the tail end of the disc dip down as he pulls out of the power pocket and into the hit.
I think it would be worth mentioning that, while higher rpm will not affect the initial wobble statistic that tech disc is giving you, higher rpm will reduce the wobble more as the disc flies along. This is a principle of gyroscopic stability. A higher concentration of weight at the outside of the disc will do the same thing. This is why it is common to advise beginners who want to get better not to throw drivers. A driver weighs the same as a mid but the weight is concentrated at the edge so it will hide or literally stop the wobble earlier in the flight. You throw mids until you can get the rpms up to where the wobble fades.
They didn't read the in owners manual. There is a sub note for wobble. It was introduced as an April fools joke and they kept it. It's a made up stat.
I'm your guy. Seriously. I've spent more time looking into this issue of wobble than anyone else on CZcams (because I have this problem more than most). I even have a couple videos with some of my earlier findings, as I was troubleshooting this for myself. If you want to know more about this issue, you have to watch these 2 videos:
czcams.com/video/zTXTNauAczM/video.html - 2 Things to Fix Wobble
czcams.com/video/2PS3kiKXUyI/video.html - Reducing Wobble on my Backhand Throws
I'm going to answer what I can from your video, but I have other information to share, as well.
Wobble _does_ have to do with form, but it is most affected by the actual swing plane. What you are actually doing with the disc as it goes from the peak of the reachback, to the moment of release. However, the most important moments of time, regarding wobble, are what the disc is going round the time it first enters through the power pocket, to release. In other words, the further back part of the swing can be pretty off-plane. However, you have to correct by the time gets into the power pocket, or you're going to have more wobble than you should.
Wobble makes discs LESS stable. Just because it fades earlier doesn't mean it's more stable. The off-axis torque slows the disc down.
When others talk about elbow drop. The problem is not actually at the elbow. The wobble problem is upstream from where you think. It has less to do with the grip, and wrist position, as there's very little rotation occurring there. It's not merely that the elbow drops. The issue is actually where the upper arm meets the shoulder. For most people I am seeing with this problem - they are externally rotating the upper arm at the shoulder. This causes the elbow to drop down more than needed, and that changes the angle of the disc during the swing.
I'm actually working with a form coach right now to solve this problem with myself, and I can share with you what works. But it is *not* an easy problem to fix. And as you probably know by now, there's a law of diminishing returns in terms of fixing this problem. But you want to get it to a acceptable range, which is the best we can do really. There will be outliers like Thomas Gilbert who likely developed his throwing form early on.
Thomas Gilbert appears to have a lighter grip on his disc than others. Some people like Nate Sexton have talked about Thomas' throws being the quietest he's heard, about 2 years ago on Jomez or some other video I saw where he was commentating on a round he was in. It was the last year he was sponsored by Innova, as Gilbert was throwing a Nova in that video, and he was puring gaps with it.
The “collab” we didn’t know we needed. Also, side note: Josh, whatever you’re doing health wise to trim up and get in shape… kudos to you. 🤜🤛
Throwing the Glitch a ton helped me get a cleaner release. Really made me focus on snap and spin. Bigger speed discs feel much easier after using the glitch
I’m pretty beastly with the glitch, not gonna lie
Two thoughts for you, mostly from troubleshooting wobble in my forehand:
1) Try tensing or relaxing the fore-arm during the throw. I suspect that tense muscles will cause more wobble. For example, in my forehand, if I cocked my wrist backwards (adding some muscle tension), the result was significant wobble. By relaxing my wrist and letting the natural momentum of my throw 'cock' my wrist naturally, then my wobble was vastly reduced.
2) I think wobble causes UNDER-stability.
My initial thought is that it may be similar to the "archers paradox" where so much force is being imparted into the arrow that it wobbles side to side. It may simply be the consequence of the disc rebounding from the forces of being thrown.
My assumption was that it had to do with twisting the forearm/wrist/fingers ever so slightly, like if you keep turning the key, during the hit. Whatever the plane, set the hand before the hit!
lol at the slide whistle after Jesse's throw
I'd be curious about the pressure variation between top of disc vs. bottom of disc. From a physics perspective it seems like wobble would be caused by either an up or down force on the disc, on one side, as it's released. If you can view a throw in super slow-mow, you might be able to find if it's top or bottom. If you grip incredibly hard with the thumb, does the wobble change? You did a hard grip video recently, check out the wobble data on those and see? I would assume jamming your thumb down would unbalance the grip and test the hypothesis?
It wobbled with no thumb, will it wobble with ALL the thumb? 🤣
My intuition is that wobble should correlate with the ratio between speed and rotation. I believe forehand throws have more wobble and it's well known that the forehand has less spin than the backhand. This can easily be checked in Python given an appropriate dataset.
I always thought wobble happens when some lever is firing out of sync with everything else. Now I got some thinking to do.
I always heard that the cause of wobble was OAT (off axis rotation). When filming myself in slow motion and trying to reduce wobble, I had the best results when I was able to keep the disc very flat all the way through the pull through. Whatever wobble you initially have immediately after release will be eliminated/greatly reduced by the gyroscopic effect cause by the rotation of the disc, so higher spin rate should cause faster/better reduction of wobble after release.
In my research on this wobble issue, nearly everyone talks of it as a spin issue. As in, you spin the disc more, and you solve it. But I think that's because this issue hasn't been researched enough, because a lot of people who fix their form will fix this issue as a part of it. But as you point out, it's a bit more complex than that, and it has a lot more to do with clean release of the disc, which is helped a lot by getting that disc on the swing plane as much as possible. The spin rate only minimizes the problem after release.
Jesus Josh. Looking good. I got to get to the gym
A lot of people (including Danny Lindahl in multiple videos) say that wobble scrubs off a significant amount of speed. It would be great if someone (Overthrow?) tested it by comparing disc speed at time of release against disc speed out, say, 50' (e.g., with 2 speed guns or maybe with TechDisc + 1 speed gun?) to see if the decrease in speed is correlated with the amount of wobble at release.
I had this thought while watching, I haven't received my techdisc yet on pre-order to try, but maybe it has to do w finger placement on rim plate and top plate
Wobble will never disappear because the last thing a disc does is pop off of your index finger, which imparts an upward force at the rim of the disc. More spin and it will stabilize sooner, but the only thing that can eliminate it entirely is a machine designed to throw discs.
As far as the aesthetics of flight, Jesse FromTrashPanda, wobble is a product of the relationship of spin to speed. More speed at the same spin = more wobble. More spin at the same speed = less wobble. It's easy to see when you have a consistent wind. Throw into a headwind -> wobbly turnovers. Same form into a tailwind -> smooth hyzers.
To reduce wobble, you either need to decrease airspeed or increase spin, but again, it's a product of our human bodies and will never be completely eliminated.
Looks like it's just not much of a problem for backhands, but would definitely be a metric (along with spin) to try to figure out how to improve for forehands. I would investigate different forehand grips obviously, and maybe trying to increase wrist flexibility or something.
How would form increase wobble? Its the disc wobbling in the air. stiffness of the disc, how clean the release is, speed/spin (more force = more deformation)
The disc wants to stabilize itself but there are so many things that affect the flight of the disc that its likely to be unbalanced and then it corrects itself by wobbling to the other side
Similar to how a bike is self correcting with speed (also why in both cases wobble is worse at low speed)
Check what Niklas Anttila is doing. Slowmo replays of his drives show absolutely zero wobble. It's almost uncanny tbh, like he's releasing the disc manually instead of letting it rip out of his hand.
Throwing a disc is really a great example of everyday physics, so lets think like physicists. There would be a force caused by the air resistance pushing the disc to align itself with the most aerodynamic path through the air. There would also be angular momentum as the disc aligns itself. Together these two would some gradually decreasing oscillation, that basically fits with what we think of as oscillation. Think of it kind of like a pendulum. Depending on the position and velocity you start the pendulum with it will spring back and forth by a different amount.
From this we can make a key observations: to remove wobble you need to "remove" the force. I can think of two ways of doing this:
1: Start with the disc already aligned perfectly such that it minimizes the air-resistance and with no initial rotational momentum. Thats equivalent to having a pendulum hanging and being perfectly still.
2: Remove air resistance. Throw in a tailwind which is equal to your throwing speed (wind tunnel?). Your could also throw in a vacuum but that seems a bit impractical. Thats more like having the pendulum in space.
Wobble is OAT, plain and simple. It's the same as spinning a top: the cleaner the spin, the less wobble initially. Granted, some amount of grip issues may also play into it.
So, Jessie to me is the disc golf equivalent to the history channel show forged in fire but with discs. I watched his stuff prior to the demo of creating a trash panda disc and I was always wondering if that wild sparkle in his eye was a thing. It's real deal Holyfield. Long story short he he's a third way in, and I'm thinking this is like 3d printing but worse.
Got his recycled plastic beads all melted, Panda is in his garage, Now it's time to pump plastic from his wall mounted... device. into the injection mold. Think of camping and the national parks had those water pump wells, long handle you'd push up pull down rinse and repeat to pump water up a pipe to your bucket. A lot of work to pump that water up that pipe. Trash Panda cleverly let gravity work for him and he just has to pull the handle once.
Only problem is Plastic is far less liquid than water and will change state quickly to solid.
So Jessie starts pulling down on this handle long handle above his shoulders to pump plastic into the injection mold. The plastic is rapidly state shifting to solid mind you while it's traveling to the mold. Every second, more pump pressure required. Goes from pulling to hanging from this pump to get it to drop more. But it's starting to dry and jam like super glue ion the nozzle so once gravity and body weight are exhausted he jumps on to the wall to use his legs.
It worked ultimately. Popped open the crucible and behold a trash panda disc.
But I'm like, that's the process? He does this every time?
How many failures happened? Think about the grit it took to get the first finished product.
That level of artist isn't in me. Those wild eyes are real
Fu#$ing wild man.
I drive exclusively forehand, and on my off days the disc has significantly more wobble than when I'm playing well. It seems to boil down to clean releases, including not rolling my wrist on the release. I suspect wobble on both forehand and backhand shots is created when the top and bottom pressure of the grip aren't released perfectly at the same time, or when you impart a fore-aft angle change on the disc at the time of release.
I would compare the stats on a clean forehand see if you see any correlation. Also I would compare gyro as well to see if having the weight at the rim makes it worse or better
It's time to create a patreon tier that goes towards tearing down the wall towards the warehouse.
It probably comes down to physiology in the grip and how the disc releases from it. Longer fingers, shorter fingers, fat fingers, thin fingers, angle of fingers against the rim, angle/position/force of thumb, where disc is pressed against hand, etc. There may be only a small number of combinations of physical variables that produce no wobble, and no matter how hard you try it may be a case of forcing a no wobble paradigm may inhibit performance and possible promote injury.
Just my opinion as a wind musician who has taught thousands of students and had to identify techniques to get around each of their individual oral physiologies (different from mine) to produce a desired result. As much as I wanted all my students to sound like me when developing tonal concept, some simply did not have the physical make up to do so, so we had to work a different avenue which still produced good results in a broader sense even though it was not the result I specifically was hoping for.
One thing though now that you've asked for it. I've noticed that my wobble goes down a crapton when I change my grip so my ringfinger is straighter. I'm one of those whose ringfingers is almost as long as my longfinger, so the difference between my ringfinger and my pinky is huge, and the ringfinger sometimes even hurt when I throw a lot. It feels a touch less powerful when I put it to a 2on-1off-1on (from index to pinky, with "on" meaning "finger is curled into the rim") grip, but there's no real change in distance.
I haven't tested this out, but I'm pretty sure wobble happens when the angle the disc is at when you release it does not match the angle at which you are throwing the disc. So this should be able to be manipulated by holding the disc at a different angle, essentially pronating or supinating your fore-arm/wrist or changing your grip angle. Once again I haven't tested this theory, but that's what makes sense to me.
To further expand with an extreme example. 90 degrees of wobble would be throwing the disc with the top or bottom of the disc going in the direction of throw (a.ka. sideways), and that angle typically only happens when doing warm ups by purposefully holding the disc sideways.
This was my original thought. Disproven
@OverthrowDiscGolf What!? Now I'm gonna need to do some testing.
@OverthrowDiscGolf So I did some test throws and I know that forearm positioning at the point of release does impact wobble. I tested this by going to extreme pronation and supination angles and got significant wobble. This shows that it is a contributing factor. Though it may not be the only factor that impacts wobble.
Dug into this a little more and essentially at the moment of release, if your grip applies any net force towards the top or bottom of the disc you will get wobble.
If you apply force on the top of the disc by pronating your arm you will get wobble.
Also if your thumb force doesn't perfectly cancel out your index finger force at release you would get wobble. This would probably vary from disc to disc, so would be the most likely culprit for wobble seen for pros I would guess.
I'm pretty sure there is a lot more to this, but that's what I've figured out so far.
Unrelated to wobble, but im curious about Jesse's swoop. Looks like that downward swing would cause a negative launch angle which means he should be throwing quite nose up to air bounce the disc, correct?
There are many ways to throw a disc, just try and putt in the garden to see what you can actually do to a disc with minimal effort. The release point is key. When the release point is set correctly in your muscle memory the disc will come out beautifully. Most people arm the disc and that causes the disc to be torqued by your fingers/forearms going into supination.
The key is to go limb forarm, create the energy from you body to swing your arms around you body. Grip the disc and don't think about how you grip it until you learn how to set a release angle with the body. The throw is so fast that the laws of physics don't allow you to think about it or change it.
Did you guys try throwing farther back from the net? Wobble is a relatively low frequency behavior and I think you might need to give the Tech Disc more flight time in order to collect reliable data on how changes in form impact wobble. It's likely that the data set you have so far is just a bunch of random numbers due to insufficient sampling of the in-flight dynamics.
You guys should reach out to Mark Rober and do a collab about disc wobble.
For myself I've noticed that I only really get a significant amount of wobble if I strong arm the throw (on a normal power throw at least, for low power up shots grip can sometimes be an issue). Having a well timed kinetic chain and not letting any part break it by moving ahead too soon gives me a better feeling of snap and less wobble. However, for the smaller amounts of wobble that seem to be the concern of the video I'm not sure about. Possibly having a more relaxed arm and better snap could help, hard to say. Interesting to see if you figure something out.
for me if I overgrip the disc it wobbles more. If I don't focus on my grip I find I grip it the proper amount and no wobble. Not the biggest arm 380-400 but I can throw understable putters no wobble. If you struggle with this and you have a death grip I'd say back it off a bit.
Personally I think its just the disc flexing/bending under force at release, then bounching back in mid flight
The presence of wobble MUST indicate an offset of some kind in the force acting on the disc
That could be:
1) Power is not generated in complete line with the direction of the throw, and on plane.
2) Power is not transfered to the disc linearly with the direction of throw, and on plane.
3) The weight of the disc is not symmetrical.
4) External factors are uneven, like temperature, air pressure, wind.
These are not very feasible to eliminate either:
1) You would need a roboticly precise form to generate power in only the right direction, AND / OR -->
2) --> Stumble upon a way to transfer the uneven power into the disc to mitigate the offset. So power generated is slightly offset, but the shape of your hand happens to transfer the power at a slight offset as well. --> The offsets can cancel eachother, or amplify.
3) You could try different discs for this one. The placement of the techdisc would be crucial.
4) Wind
Is there a correlation between wobble and the speed/spin relationship? That’s a huge factor with Forehand at least. The more spin when thrown at a given speed, the less wobble?
Ask Calvin Heimburg. That foo has 0 wobble upon release!
I haven’t a clue but I can tell you that my 15 BH throws with techdisc show a wobble range of 0.7 to 4.2. The 0.7 throw was my fastest at 47.8mph. My second best nose angle at 1.7. It was an Annie throw I think. Hyzer was -2.9. It was my second lowest spin at 822rpm. What I am more curious about is desired launch for max D. That throw was my second highest at 9.2.
Thanks to forehands, I'd assume there's a strong correlation between wobble and off-axis torque. This also tends to make discs fly more understable (ever notice how forehands flip more than backhands with the same disc?).
If this is the case, think about what it would take to get your wobble down to 1%. Presumably your release angle is within 1% of the plane of your swing/pull, which would also need to be on plane throughout the power pocket. That sounds extremely difficult to achieve.
I also think that a tight grip slightly warps the shape of the disc, so upon release it naturally wants to shape back into it's natural state, causing wobble.
If these were the only variables, one would think the equation is (0% nose angle + flat pull through + loos(er) grip = no wobble).
Maybe aerodynamics of the disc plays a role? Wind speeds, disc speed, MPH thrown, etc.
Good luck.
I have no idea where I heard this but my understanding was wobble is caused by higher speed to spin ratio. Is that a thing?
My theory is that wobble comes from a slight lift or depression of the “back side” of the disc at the point of release. - i.e. how the disc breaks free from the pinky. I’ve tried to increase or decrease wobble on putts, ala Ohn Scoggins.
I would argue that any time you create near simultaneous downward force at a point on the disc and upward force at a different point, during a release - you are certain to create wobble.
it's because the lower edge of the rim is below the center of mass of the disc, and that's where you're tugging on when you throw. if the rim was rounded or tapered, you'd probably have less wobble. I want royalties, Jesse, if you do something with my idea. ;)
Does this mean if you held a banger GT on the groove track you should get less wobble?
It could be literal variations and imperfections in the disc as nothing is manufactured perfectly. Hence never going to be able to get rid of it. Wobble is probably able to be able to be improved more on forearm form.
Hand shape/form/size etc. should be a big factor.
How does” Your”wobble factor change when you throw with various gloves, or taped fingers altering your hand shape…
Btw Love the channel
I wonder if its something like the archer's paradox! You mentioned everyone seems to have it, maybe its due to the force upon the disc causing it to flex before release?
I was thinking the same. I believe NFL Films made an episode about the wobble of a football when throwing a spiral czcams.com/video/jFwDOMmXcEc/video.html
Must be!
I find when I accelerate more gradually I get way less wobble and about the same distance. Seems to support your theory a little. Smooth = far/fast?
Wobble is caused by the imperfections in the disc. Faster RPMs mask these imperfections. In my opinion of course. It’s only a problem if it’s effecting your score.
I've been practicing turbo putts, and when i get wobble its because I flipped it forward, instead of spinning it forward. To fix it, I throw a couple turbos straight up and down in the air untill it comes out smooth again. When I was learning forehand I did a similar exercise by laying down on my back, throwing forehands straight up in the air until they were smooth.
Follow up; I was messing around throwing various backhand grips straight up in the air and noticed two things. 1. Keep the wrist loose, feel the weight of the disc, and fling it out instead of being stiff with it. 2. The index and thumb seem to have the greatest effect on wobble. It helps to squeeze it out with even pressure between those fingers, if that makes any sense.
2 things:
1. maybe try to look at forehands to understand woble. I feel like it varies much more on forehand then on backhands
2. i am pretty sure that woble makes the disc act more understable.
My background is mechanical engineering. I will almost guarantee you that wobble is coming from your release "pulling" the disc off the initial acceleration plane. Don't look at the beginning of your throw, focus on the end, the "snap." You are "snapping" or "whipping" the disc off your intended throw plane. A cleaner release will produce less wobble.
Right. Which is the conclusion we came to. But I’m not gonna get a better release than Gannon or AB and they have more wobble than me
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Try throwing with your pinky finger omitted from your grip. The pinky finger doesn't add much grip strength, but it "over constrains" the disc in your grip. A somewhat bad analogy...a three legged stool never wobbles, but a 4 legged stool does because 3 points define a plane.
@@sabrewolf479 tried it. To significant effect
I think the fingers are just kind of getting 'in the way' when the disc comes out. It would kind of explain the thumbless wobble; all of your grip on the disc is coming from the underside fingers, so they need to stay under as long as possible to maintain grip. If the grip of one finger is tighter than the rest, that would create an unbalanced release that could cause wobble.
I would guess (based upon my own very limited understanding) that the amount of time the disc takes escaping your grip would affect wobble. Thus, people with larger hands will have less wobble. (for the same reason that the longer the disc is accelerating in the throw the faster it goes.)
I'm no scientist or coach, but I've wondered about this as well and have messed around with it a bit. My cleanest releases with the lowest wobble seems to be on fan grips with a midrange like a Buzzz. Which leads me to believe it's just a grip thing, meaning because the disc is pulling off of each finger sequentially, if the grip pressure isn't 100% optimal, it's going to cause a bit of wobble as it pulls off of each finger. I can't imagine it affects much if anything at all as long as wobble is low, and I feel like the only way to fix that is to figure out exactly how much pressure each individual finger needs in order for the disc to pop out as smoothly as possible. Just my two cents
Fan grip was lowest wobble for me as well
My understanding of what creates wobble is when your arm is moving faster than the disc when it leaves your hand. Idk how on earth you would measure or confirm that, but maybe that means it has something to do with your hit point.
I always thought wobble was due to the angle of the disc at release not being the same as your swing angle?
Same. Didn’t change it when I altered axis’s and torque directions and all that jazz
Do you think you could even get to 0 wobble, like is the disc flexing a certain amount when thrown? I'm thinking of if you've ever seen an arrow shot in slo-mo, how it actually bends back and forth as it's flying
I don’t think so
I'd think wobble not a big deal for backhand, but it sure seems to me its a big deal for forehand. How do you decrease the metric with forehand is the video I want to see.
Yes. This is exactly what was been plaguing my forehand. I didn’t use to have the problem, but now I have substantial wobble and it causes my throws to be much more “understable”. I’m uncertain if it’s actually understable or just being forced to turn due to this weird rotation
If you shoot a bow, gun, slingshot, whatever....you have to keep totallfy still. Move any part of your body or the tool that launches the item and you will induce wobble into the item. This is why marksmen/women train to reduce their breath and heartbeat when shooting as even that can affect the flight of the arrow or bullet. it is probably the same with disc golf, but we cannot hold our body, arms, hands still as they are used for the launchng of the disc. Somewhere in that is what is causing the worbble....it could be as simple as a slight turning of the wrist on release. it could be pulling the hand away from the disc too soon and causing the disc to not release smoothly. Super slomo might be able to catch it, but it is doubtful our eyes can catch something that small or that quick.
Just got my TechDisc and had my first session. Roughly 15 forehands and 30 backhands and min max on both were 0.3 to 3.1 and 0.3 to 3.5. Let me know if you want to see any video or anything
It kinda reminds me of how an arrow jumps off a bow in a slow mo flight, the arrow bends back and forth till it finally gets up to speed. To bad Techdisc doesn't tell you the stats during the whole flight of the disc.
Random thought but have you tried throwing in a field to give it more chance to wobble? I wonder if the net is to close and it hits the net before getting wobble?
Doesn’t matter because discs wobble on release and then stop later during the flight and tech disc is reading wobble at release
Don't think so. Wobble is greatest immediately after release and is reduced/eliminated by the stabilizing effect of gyroscopic forces from thereon.
If I had one I’d test! 😂
@@novapunkx come here and use ours
@@OverthrowDiscGolf thanks for the offer but I’m in Northern Maine :)
if you watch a lot of eagle's slowmos there is a pretty good amount of wobble out of the hand and it sure doesnt affect him too much so who knows
How does he do 4 with his fingers? Lol I tried and it looks like I have crippling arthritis
Obviously, Thomas Gilbert throws with his huge mouth open. This adds to gyroscopic stability and reduces off access torque. His gapping maw acts as a noise dampener for his backhand shots. The proof is in the slow mo.
Scott Stokely said something like the disc isn't spinning fast enough for the speed it's going through the air. So less speed and/or more spin should fix it
Right. But at higher speeds is that just a given?
Eagle has crazy wobble and throws a mile
ok i just mentioned it but knew someone had to notice that too. yeh in slowmo you can see it wobble like crazy and he maybe throws farther than any human. wiggins has a ton too
Ive always seen wobble making discs fly less stable
That’s what I meant to say
Random, but after watching this I’d like to see the wobble stats on an Ohn Scoggins putt.
I think (?) It has to do with the disc's released angle in relation to the forearm angle. ❤
Not that much of a change
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Okay I give up :)
@@GrahamGolfsWithFrisbees please don’t
Seems to me that Gilbert starts off very slow and steady. The length you have to get something up to speed is probably a factor.
What about 360 drive wobble?
I get wobble after several beer!!! (jk) I get wobble when I don't execute my pivot release firmly out of my power pocket. When I'm sloppy, lazy or tired. Otherwise, I never see wobble, so it disturbs my calm when I see it.
Cant buy techdisc outside of the US and Canada..
Talk to Kat Mertsch, her forehand is a bit wobbly…it’s also much easier to do with a forehand and a slower disc.
Oh I can wobble it on forehand. That’s for sure.
I’m not joking when I say I have 0 discernible wobble on my shots. I throw decently far at around 480-510 (yay inconsistency). If you want I can sent you some film of my throwing sessions. But I think it’s a combination of my pinch point and the amount that I “briefcase”. But if it helps you can have it
Wobble at normal levels is indiscernible to the eye most of the time because it corrects so quickly
@@OverthrowDiscGolf fair point. Even in slow mo I don’t really see any though. Guess I need a tech disc to really prove it though.
@@Kyalthered come use ours. I want to see someone throw zero wobble for real
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Okay! I’m in Tallahassee Fl so I’ll need to figure out when I can. But I’d absolutely love to come try and see 1. If I’m just an idiot and 2. Help figure this out if it all possible.
The more I briefcase the disc, the more wobble I get
Isn't it due to grip? Like the catching of disc on the tips. Try purely pinch grip on the wing.
Tried that. Doesn’t help
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I think it is physics, the non intuitive type. Can you spin the disc like you were spinning the tea cup ride at Disney with two hands and get the device to read?
Hypothesis: we can spin a disc on a needle and it should balance, but when you spin it you effect one part of the disc and you make it wobble. Our way of applying spin to the disc (asymmetrical torque to the outside rim) maybe causing it. Like spinning a basket ball in your finger, if you don't strike it right or too hard it wobbles. Or When you spin a disc on your finger.
Im just going to say that more wobble will produce a more understable flight...Let's see how it plays out!
That’s what I meant to say
Wobble is probably caused by having the grip severely bottom loaded. Try testing the difference between a strong top load and too strong of a bottom load
Off axis torque. Plain and simple. Unfortunately, the amount will vary from disc to disc, depending on wing width, depth, etc. This makes it hard to "fix", unless you're just doing something that makes wobble bad on EVERY disc you throw, in which case it will be visibly noticeable (without slow-motion replay) and you already know it's a problem. Normal wobble isn't really detectable unless you're viewing slow-motion footage or are using Tech Disc or something. It also usually "settles" in the mid to late part of the flight. I feel like it's only really stealing a significant amount of energy from the flight when it's bad enough to be visible to the naked eye (and you can "hear" it). I know a forehand-only player who has a crazy amount of wobble upon release, and feel that he would probably get an extra 50 feet of distance if he could calm it down some.
That was the first thing I tried. Didn’t change it
Discs are just going to have wobble. You're applying force in one spot on the disc and ripping the rest of it around. That force has to be put into the rest of the disc. Try using different plastics. Im sure you’ll see a clear difference in say a GStar vs a Champ.
Wobble totally nukes distance.
But is some necessary? Because everyone has some
Pretty sure it's just the disc the disc aren't made of metal they are going to bend witch creates "wobble " out of hand ... stiffer the disc less wobble
Wouldn’t this be an issue with the disc and not form? The disc isn’t going to be exact same weight, shape or density of plastic the whole way around. Sort of the same idea of why we have to balance tires. Not to mention if the tech disc thing isn’t perfectly centered it’s going to cause wobble.
Spoiler alert: Ohn Scoggins is about to go from 83/21% C1X/C2 putting to 99/66%.
Or maybe the other direction?
wobble is mostly a reflection of character. try tensing up your character.
Lol
Maybe to fix the wobble for sales, the "CEO" doesn't need to be the commercial talent ?
I got to throw a couple shots with tech disc at a local tournament and had a few with TEN DEGREES of wobble, which was concerning.
What I do know is that playing with putters reduces wobble, even if you don't know what's going on, because you get punished hard for it. I'm trying to reduce wobble because I want to eek more stability out of my discs and have more consistency in the flight path.
Ps., Would you guys ever do a data of putting series? I'd be very interested in demystifying the art of putting, even if it seems weird to put one of those expensive tech discs into a basket!
pop open your hand on release and don't let the disc rip out of your hand.. GG
Tried that. More wobble
Weird this works for me to get less wobble. The tighter I grip the more wobble I tend to see
Wobble is simply overblown. If you can throw 350-400ft accurately, whats the problem?
Many professionals putt and throw with wobble, some more than others. It doesn’t make you any less of a disc golfer 👍
This is what I’m thinkin
Ok hear me out. Try throwing with form where you keep your elbow too low/ "pulling" close to your body. I believe this HAS to increase wobble, I could be wrong tho. But decreased spin should lead to increased wobble. The other thing that came to mind is frontloading the grip. I have noticed that when I do a frontloaded grip, my discs fly more stable. I don't typically have a noticably wobbly release normally, but still when I focus on pressure between my index finger and tumb, discs fly more stable, which would support your theory of less wobble = more overstable flight. Please get back to me, I'm interested😁 cheers guys
Tried it. Changed nothing 😞
@@OverthrowDiscGolf but how why what😂😂
@@marcelmattsson1010 I know
Just do as much less of the thing you did that made it wobble more... it's so simple. Seriously though, now I don't feel nearly as self-conscious about my wobble. One day I'll get tech disc, but I have some goals to hit first. Quite interesting actually, so I granted this a SMASH of approval. You're all groovy, I wish you a lovely day.
Try forehand
I would suggest taking the midi-chlorian count of the players and determine if higher counts of midi-chlorian correlates with lower wobble.
#thewobbleisstrongwiththisone
Help us @markrober, you are our only hope!
Wobble is just off axis torque. Force being applied to the disc not on the same plane of flight caused this. Much easier to replicate with a FH. This is why people use os discs primarily with FH. Off axis torque makes flight more understable at higher speeds and resists fade at lower speeds.
Is this why ohns wobble puts work? 🤔
@@joem8496 partly, look at yeti. One of the best putters ever.