Reddit F***ed Up
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2023
- Thousands of subreddits protest Reddit’s new API pricing, while several 3rd party apps plan to end service.
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Giving them an end date to they boycott was a massive mistake
yep massively silly
A number of them seemed to change the end date to "indefinite" after the dumpster fire that was the AMA, but the boycott notice was pretty much a copy-paste that didn't get updated.
Reminds me of when everyone cancelled their runescape membership to protest and reinstated it the next day lol. Hadn't even ran out yet
@@darkclownKellenand diablo 3....failed
I didn't get that at all, why tell YOU'RE COMING BACK?
48 hours just ain't enough
48 hours is a warning shot
The HOPE is that 48 hours of massive non-use will be enough of a warning to get their attention. I doubt it'll be the LAST or longest outage of users if things don't change.
It should at very least be a month
They didn’t do enough research as most of the top subs said a minimum of 48hrs. if they don’t respond and change ways, it’s indefinite
@@gamewarrior010 This is what I'm hoping for. If 48 doesn't work (and it probably won't), I hope they threaten to do a month, several months, or indefinitely.
The funniest part is the CEO was like, "Lol, it'll pass."
Time for more extended protests
You mean time for new subreddits. Redditors have proven that they can't stay off of the site. Those people are still logging on.
@@BillyBob-oi9kl yeah cause it literally doesnt affect 99% of redditors.
If they want to send a message then they should do an indefinite blackout.
@@BillyBob-oi9klit's hard to break habits, need at least two weeks of forced protest to break the habit.
@@futuza Man we just need to stop using it. All the apps, show the companies that we truly don't need them they need us. We need to take the power back, but I don't think we ever will.
You guys missed the Apollo dev's response to spez' comments about him.
Spez - "[...]His behavior and communications with us has been all over the place-saying one thing to us while saying something completely different externally[..]"
Apollo Dev - "Please feel free to give examples where I said something differently in public versus what I said to you. I give you full permission."
Legend.
"I Call"
Pokerface.png
Reasons why ApolloDev was even MORE of a GigaChad: He recorded all of their voice calls and discussions legally. He’s got receipts and even posted them online going “bet.”
Apollo Dev: "Hey I'm going to refuse to add caching to my App and generate as many calls as possible!"
@@GorgeousFortress Quite literally the opposite, he has stated multiple times that he would be willing to put on the work to minimize the number of API calls Apollo makes - but because it would take massive restructurings, the 30 day no-leeway timeframe imposed on them after months of lying about making prices fair and not saying them makes it an impossible task for him to fulfill.
“The problem isn’t that we lied to him, it’s that he had the audacity to prove that we lied to him!”
This just isn't long enough. Basically this temporary boycott just tells companies that no matter what they do, the people will always come back. Its counter-productive
even if you absolutely cannot stand the great outdoors, at least don't ANNOUNCE that you will be back in 48 hours? What's with that?
@@randomnobody660 yeah well they didn't do enough research. They aren't only doing 2 days
@@trocoplaytv1254 They said 2 days originally. The point still stands that they never should have stated an end date to begin with.
@@infiniteaj8688 They never should've rendered subs completely inaccessible to users to begin with either, all these subs did was show that i should blacklist them permanently.
@@rimuru2035 Good luck blocking more than 7,000 subreddits.
In response to statements made by the CEO, that the blackout hasn't had a significant revinue impact and that they expect most subreddits to be back by Wednesday, several subreddits have decided to go private indefinitely. This includes such large subreddits as r/aww, r/music, r/videos, and r/futurology, each of which had over 18 million followers.
r/ProgrammerHumor too
New subs will be created then.
since their users cost them money not make them money, is it a really a question of revenue?
@@LetrixARnot really understanding the issue there. Also you can't just magic 18 million user's worth of engagement onto a brand new subreddit it would take a decade to regain that momentum.
@@gofreenow They definitely look like they're trying to get those costs down to zero as fast as possible.
Isn't half of reddits features made by community devs that they later just integrated
Even moderation tools aren't available despite their promise to make it years ago lol. Once the paid API rolls out, it will be chaos.
If only they did more of that, then the 3rd party apps perhaps aren't that necessary.
As a Product Manager of public APIs.... this is basically a tour de force in how NOT to monetize your APIs....wow. This is seriously some 101 stuff here ya'll cmon. Spoiler alert: if your defense is Elon did it first literally ANYWHERE, you're probably headed down the wrong path.
They are not trying to monetize their API, they are simply trying to kill 3rd party apps.
@@cesarlin By over-monetising their API
Its also like they have forgotten why API's came to be for web pages. Which is a more friendly way and less load than people creating and maintaining pages scrapers and just letting them hammer on servers until they get what they want playing a cat and mouse game. This is also why most basic API's cannot be billed for when the same equivalent functionality is public to end users in another format or method
@@cesarlin yeah, its quite obvious no one's gonna pay that much for api. they just want to kill it
They did say that the reason for the price hike is to limit their data being used to train AI. Do you think it's a valid reason? Also, is there any way they can monetize their APIs that doesn't risk outrage? And yes, I know about spez's behaviour towards Apollo's devs, but I just wanna know any other way this could've gone.
Huffman said this is going to pass and wont have financial impact. I don’t think a two day blackout will do much. It will have to be indefinite and needs buy in from all mods to make an impact.
At least they should make them a month.
When RIF stops working, that's when I stop using the site. The change will be felt when it goes live, not during the protest.
@@reahreic7698 Yep, same. If Bacon Reader stops working, I stop.
@@valenciodiaz2644 Even less then that the least they can do is not give a firm end date...
boycotts fundamentally do not work anymore. standard corporate advice is to wait it out. why do you think all the right wing attempts to cancel brands have failed miserably? consumers have zero self-control. they are addicted to product and will return.
You know guys, what's really nice about LTT is the consistency. The sticking to your guns over the span of YEARS is something you guys should be proud of. A lot of tech review channels get big and start doing corporate showpieces instead of real reviews, and your ability to tell giant companies where to shove it when necessary, and being willing to do so is so refreshing to see.
LTT became a staple :)
Like number 69. Nice
Couldn’t say no to that esg score
Tho.
@@Magjee 😂😂😂😂 7:48 he said "staples" as I was reading this
48 hours alone isnt enough, which is why the 48 hours blackout isnt all that the subreddits are doing. The 48 hours is just a warning to try to reopen negotiations, with the threat of an indefinite blackout hanging overhead.
While some subreddits do plan on coming back after 48 hours, others are planning to come back for a few hours to see the admins' response and update their communities before going dark indefinitely, while a few are planning to stay dark indefinitely from the get go.
Its not like everything will return to normal after 48 hours.
Its an interesting take from a community webpage manager to attack the community instead of just flat out saying there's no more venture capital, we need to increase income. People would get that. I have to assume there is more at play from investors pressuring certain moves behind closed doors because they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater while everyone is screaming that they threw away their baby. Nobody is this incompetent but investors.
I've wondered about that myself... I think on the one hand it's that many in the corporate world have an irrational fixation on being positive and admitting anything negative is a sign of weakness. On the other hand, openly admitting those issues could be detrimental to their valuation, luring investors or going public.
Investors saw Musk's dumb move, thought it was a good idea to squeeze more money out of things, and here we are. Greed ruins everything.
the we need to increase income excuse is bullshit because if they needed more income they wouldnt make the api prices so high that literally no one can pay it
@Omar Alkharraz They probably think they have more to gain by forcing everyone into their own proprietary app than they'd possibly have to gain with a tenable pricing scheme, so they just came up with an outrageous highball in case there are any takers desperate enough for it, and so that they can say they're not barring access while effectively doing it.
Honestly, candor really would get them out of this mess
Honestly tempted to go back to the classic smaller message boards/forums with all of these shenanigans
I’m about to get a paradox forums account for HOI4. Made TomsHardware forums account as well as LinusTechTips.
Im tempted to just keep a list on my computer of every sub that went private over the api changes and avoid those subs forever.
Do it! Forums are still great! Sure there's still the same drama as you'll have in any group of people, but they're not affected as much by the megacorp bullshit. I tried joining subreddits for my interests but they were 99% "look at my new ___".
Meanwhile on the forums it's easier to get to know people, read long-term epic build/journey threads, and hone in on specific facets within subforums.
@@rimuru2035 lol there is over 8000 subs that went private, and that includes nearly every mega sub. Good luck with that.
Invision Powerboard will rise again!
All Spez cares about is cashing out. He's going to walk away with millions of dollars at the end of the day.
Not at the rate he's going... He's going to IPO and it's going to crash and burn and his equity is going to go to hell.
@@Igneusflama Greed is a powerful demon, it's why people blow up their stock portfolio.
Which is why IPOing some aliens on the Nasdaq is the correct way to do alien disclosure because the fear of Alien invasion would be replaced with the fear of missing out of profiting off the aliens.
It would be like the fake meat IPO * 10,000.
That Alien stock would be worth 250,000 dollars a share and then everyone else would hope more aliens show up because they missed the boat.
If the blackout keeps going indefinitely the value of their stock is gonna be garbage since they don't have any users on their platform. Really hope this keeps up.
Which is fine, except that his screw ups are going to lower the value of that cash out.
The investors should kick him out and put a grown up in charge.
@@RoeRogers The black out should continue to happen until a full year after the stock IPOs.
It's like how publicly traded companies should be fined a minimum of 1% of their market cap, which means apple with their current market cap would be hit with a 29 billion dollar fine.
They can afford it because they can dilute the number of shares they have, or do a shelf offering which penny stocks do all the time.
For a lot of outraged college graduates they seem to never suggest the idea of fining companies a percentage of their market cap...
I don't mind the stock market, but if companies want to act like they're adults by bragging that they have a market cap of over 1 trillion dollars then the companies need to pay big boy fines.
Nobody would hire an executive, even if they were Steve jobs if Apple had to pay a 5 percent market cap fine on their 2.8 trillion dollar market cap. Think of all the game studios or product development you could buy with a 145 billion dollar fine.
Should've let them go dark for a month
Go dark until their IPO
IPOff
that would end the site
@@shadow_realm47good
It's the first step of an escalation process. You start out small, demonstrating what your group can do, and trying to bring the other party to the negotiating table. If the other party doesn't back down, *then* you push for total blackout.
@@tbotalpha8133the "two days isn't enough" crowd fundamentally don't understand the point of all this, the goal at the end as with all protests, is to sit down and talk and it always was. If you go fucking nuclear from the jump a) you lose a lot of more moderate people by going to the extreme and b) you show yourself to be someone who's not willing to talk anyway so they'll never come to the table. 2 days is a warning shot, if they want to talk after, great, if not, we'll see where we go from there
Worth noting, according to reddark, 6000 subs are still private. You can always protest for longer than originally planned but cutting a protest short is a sign of weakness
As of video posting, the current count is 8500+ subreddits are dark
Like 7000 of those are useless subreddits with no active users lmao. And I'm not talking about 10k or 5k subs. I'm talking like a couple hundred subs each.
Idiots put an end date on the protest.
What a joke. Nothing is going to come of this. "Le redditor assemble... but we have to bring it back soon to satisfy my pŕ0ñ addiction" 😂😂
Not really, there are 8300 subreddits total and around 7750 of them are private in response to api changes
@@rewelec6680 reddark website says 8357/8829 subreddits are dark right now
@@NoNameAtAll2 But that number is not an accurate representation. I think that means of the 8829 that have pledged to shut down, 8357 have done it. There's still hundreds if not thousands of subreddits still open and running as per usual.
@@NoNameAtAll2 lol. There are about 140,000 active subreddits
13:55 - Louis Rossmann did a great video on why so many social media companies just aren't profitable and have been riding the wave of low interest funding for so long to stay afloat. Now that interest rates are high, they have to prove to be profitable without it.
burned money, but attracted engagement
Now... they reap what is sown
Man this bubble is popping so fast. Crazy that I used to have aspirations of having my own Silicon Valley style company to call me own
@@Rman1228It’s all huge sham. Most SV companies are unsustainable, and their long term strategy, I shit you not, is to be valued high and be bought by Microsoft or Google or Facebook.
@@MrSkeltal268 I'm glad I woke up from the pipe dream before I got too deep into it honestly
Back in 2018, Shapeways, a 3D printing company, had a rather succinct summary of why they were raising their prices to a point that would kill many businesses on their platform: "We cannot afford to keep subsidizing other people's businesses."
Honestly, if we don't want to keep getting screwed over by self-serving corporations, we should stop putting all our data, trust, and online relationships under the control of self-serving corporations.
well said
Well the Problem is people want such Services and only self serving coperations offer them.
There is nether a proper Open nor goverment sponsored alternative.
yea but the point of a company is to make money. and that seems shitty, but capitalism is why these things can exist, so capitalism will rule. If you were owning a company and you found out you were making x, but if you stopped providing for people who make up less than 20% of your rev. If x is big enough you'll do it. To not do it is dumb business and will have effects down the road. I'd rather have a service do that and be a high quality service for years to come, than starting cutting features that I'm dependent on without an option to go somewhere else.
The real issue is we let these companies do this, and we never gave proper support to competitors, but that too is double sided. If people would have split between mixer and twitch they wouldn't have competed, they both would have gone under and the there would be nothing. You have to look at it from a business stand point and most people look at it as "greedy rich guy" no, that's not it. Most of these investors are cash poor and live on investing against the company, so the higher the value of the company the more rev they have to grow the company. Sure you can cut salaries for your Esuite, but then you're hirering a lower tier leader than you could have had, losing money from not having as good of a product and that circles back to, it's a business the point of it isn't to help you, it's to make the investors money.
@@rynobehnke8289 Uh, excuse me? There is an open alternative. Its called learn something about setting up a server yourself. I mean, how do you think their service is running? Its on a computer, somewhere. Not magically manifesting because you wanted it to. Other than the computing power of massive distributed systems 99.99999999999% of every service out there can be enacted on a spare computer at home running linux and various server programs, secured by better than the cryptography used by systems that have to account for any device connecting to them, and monitored in their entirety to whatever level of detail you desire, from anywhere in the world. Tell me again what they're offering that cannot be built by literally anyone that can run a git clone command? Hell, damn near all IoT cloud services are just MQTT systems on the backend. MQTT is so simple you could run a broker on your home router along with its normal routing duties, and use Googles OAUTH to push messages to and from your device and network. But then those companies wouldnt be able to bleed you for storing data on their service.....or data mine everything you do on that device many of us inherently trust the security of as we blow holes in that very security for services which too many of us are more than happy to pay for because "oh no! The command line looks scary and I dont want to explode my computer and make everyone hate me and watch me while Im eating....." 😡😤🤬😠
This concept that massive complex systems should be free and easy to interact with, yet have no possible means of generating revenue to pay for the hardware, developers, or maintenance that allow them to operate is frankly fucking psychotic. Why is Google free? Because your data is the product. They listen to, track, and data mine, EVERYTHING that is near or goes through any of their devices and sell it to advertisers and marketing researchers as packaged datasets. What does shapeways do? Store all your stuff on their hard drives (which require at least doubling for data security. And even then that doubling is usually doubled), and have a banner ad that is most likely blocked (because of advertising practices online and how annoyingly shit they are)? And you want to operate a business on this cheap/free service that was meant for hobbyists who didnt want to learn how to use real CAD software? Yeah, thats not going to last long.
More people need to take a basic business accounting class, then they will understand how unsustainable most of these flash in the pan services are. EVEN FREE SERVICES COST MONEY!!!!!
Im not even going to touch the idea of a government alternative......thats just so mindless I cant even conceptualize how you must think government works.......
@@michag4337 Look up what preference stock is and what proffered investors are. In summary the company is LITERALLY CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to pay out the promised amount over the promised time frame otherwise they are open to litigation and/or whatever may be stipulated in the contract. Missing those obligations is not good for a company. Not to mention payroll, and other costs of doing business.
And sure Bill Gates may be worth a billion dollars or whatever, but that does not mean he has a billion in the bank. He owns assets valued at a billion dollars that operate a company producing an income that he is entitled to a percentage of. He can withdrawal that return on investment, or simply reinvest after taking what he believes he will need to live on over the next year. Simple investment strategy that almost no one seems to realize.
Also, since when is anyone, or anything (that is not subject to a contractual obligation that can be enforced by law), obligated to provide you with anything? Or act in your best interest? Or be truthful to you? Why would you ever trust a profit generating entity (which, by the way, all companies are, not just the ones from capitalist nations) to provide you with anything out of the goodness of their heart. If you 'rely' on a tool that makes basic tasks easier to use so you dont have to learn how to use free full featured CAD software or ..... how anything in computer hardware works ..... you can either PAY THEM TO PROVIDE YOU THE THING YOU CLAIM YOU 'RELY' ON, learn to code a tool like that yourself, find an alternative on places like git hub and run your own server (although that requires learning how computers work), or JUST LEARN HOW THE BIG BOY SOFTWARE WORKS, BUY A LICENCE, AND USE THAT!!! Expecting anyone to be nice and give you a thing you profit from either materially, monetarily(like a big baddie capitalist), or emotionally is insane. Simply insane. If you 'rely' on it, why isnt it important enough for you to learn how it works? If you are generating any sort of income, even intangibly, from it, why is it not worth paying for? Should the hardware store just give away lumber, nails, hammers to anyone that wants them to build shelter? Yeah, that would be nice, but seriously where is that lost revenue going to come from? The goodness of their hearts? I cant pay my suppliers with "well I did a good thing so give me more product please." Im sure their workers wont mind getting paid in 'that one guy did a good thing'. And they can go home and pay their power bills with 'i heard this guy did a good thing'. And the electric company can buy a new turbine with 'we heard one of our customers heard that a guy did a good thing"..... Do you see how that is not a viable method of doing business that has nothing to do with uncle sam capitalism? Dont worry, kid. One day you will. And youll look at the next generation saying literally exactly the same things as in this comment thread and the cold realization of how the world turns will wash over you. But its okay, dont worry, I heard a guy did a good thing once......
I hate it. All the information inaccessible. API too expensive. But the problem is bigger. All this stuff is in the hand of a for profit company. We need Feddit. And the internet archive.
Freedit/Freddit.
Lemmy already there
@@criticalmoorhen Also kbin, which is compatible with Lemmy/Mastodon via federation. Kbin looks better to me at the moment.
"All the information inaccessible." I still don't really see the problem...
The big reason why Newgrounds was so extremely popular was because of other sites like CZcams could only handle 360p max and video sizes were several times larger than a pure flash file. It looked better on Newgrounds, it sounded better on Newgrounds and it loaded faster on Newgrounds.
If you uploaded your vector drawn and super crisp flash animation to youtube, it would get compressed, bit crunched and everything in between. Along with loading slow.
Why Newgrounds died was because Flash itself died as the internet at large stopped supporting it due to how venerable it was to attacks. Flash was its entire personality and by the time Flash was gone, CZcams had taken over.
those last comments from Luke hit hard. The problem with defending the companies with "Oh it's unprofitable, they need to make money somehow" is that while it's true, what's indefensible is how all of these tech companies are knowingly offering something unsustainable from the start and changing the deal (pray they don't change it further) after people have already invested into it. Whether that being creators using it as income, or users just investing all of their time and such (cause it's HARD to migrate somewhere else when you've established yourself somewhere and everyone you know is there).
The massive wave of companies all luring everyone in with a false sense of security only to pull the rug later revealing it was all an unsustainable farce is just disgusting. I understand why they're doing what they're doing to make more money with all the ads and horrible creator splits, they're not profitable otherwise, but all that means is I'm pissed at them baiting me into this with no indication it was temporary in the first place.
The tech ethos, even back to the 90s, has always been - "Sell the fraud and hope you cash out before people realize it".
I think you understand exactly how investors feel, just backwards. "You guys promised this would work eventually!!"
The 1m subreddit I own and moderate for the past decade has gone dark indefinitely.
:( it sucks so much, so many of the subs i have used for my hobbies are private now
Yaaaaay now you have time to go outside!
Pay up bum
What sub?
@@zat-svi-ua It should suck, if it didn't, it wouldn't be an actual protest of anything. The website being unusable would hopefully mean that revenue would be down too
Really wish California was a one party consent state, I've had a few scenarios where a recording of a conversation would have been useful. It would make exposing corruption and abuse a lot easier
As a private citizen you do not have to follow the law in order for your evidence to be admissible in court. Of course, you might get prosecuted for eavesdropping at the discretion of your district attorney if you record without consent (and get discovered).
If they want something from you, refuse to communicate without their permission to record. If you want something from them... Ask nicely and pray lol.
That's exactly the reason it's a 2 party state.
If they announce they are recording the call, that qualifies as their consent. So you can record calls with most large companies you might call
That's why it's illegal in most states..
The social media crash of the 2020s
And only good can come from it
@@dantheman1998 Says someone who (I'm guessing) doesn't rely on an online community for support
@@miranda.cooper only someone who is terminally online would be worried
48 hour "protest" is pointless you go indefinitely or it's not a protest
Are we gate keeping protests now? ineffective sure but it's still a protest...
@@the-digital-idiot nobody is gatekeeping. Let people critique on effectiveness vs a symbolic gesture.
@@the-digital-idiot I wouldn't even call it ineffective because in those 48 hours you're showing the company what *could* happen with the hope that they come to their senses and if they don't *then* you make it indefinite.
It's basically not burning a bridge.
@@Athasin Bruh, imagine MLK being like "Hey guys, we're going to protest, but we'll only be here for two days"
I don't think he would have gotten very far. Protests have to go until the problem is resolved. "warnings" aren't going to do shit
@@ajsmodernandretrogames8523 Nah I'd rather not entertain the idea of comparing the Civil Rights Movement with an internet forum boycott, purely because one was about protesting RACISM and HATE and the other is about protesting a business decision.
Saying you should use Civil Rights tactics for this situation is like saying you should use a nuke for surgery instead of a scalpel.
I work in IT. And what scares me is all the knowledge on their for MSP and young IT people.
17:12 that’s not true, it’s actually explicitly a part of Amazons business model. They make huge margin with AWS, and therefore can operate many of their services at a loss. That lets them charge less than competitors, which drive those competitors out of business. Once they have a monopoly they can pick whatever price they want.
If AWS becomes an actual monopoly it's just going to be broken apart forcefully.
@@rimuru2035 AWS is not a monopoly, not even close. It just makes so much money that it supports them in monopolizing online commerce.
That's never gonna happen lol, the thing with internet is that there will always be competition
@@nuvotion-liveno it’s just duopoly. Much better…
It definetly should become a 1 month strike. 48 hrs just isn't enough.
It's the first step of an escalation process. You start out small, demonstrating what your group can do, and trying to bring the other party to the negotiating table. If the other party doesn't back down, *then* you push for total blackout.
Nah indefinite until positive change is made
Plot twist, 48 hours was never going to be enough, I think most people knew that going in, it's a show of force and solidarity, you can always protest for longer after that
@@tbotalpha8133 That might work in an IRL scenario like at a workplace with much tighter revenue - but not with an onlineservice.
Many popular subs have vowed to go private indefinitely if the API changes aren't reversed.
The CORE of the problem is that simple ACCESS to the internet needs to become a SERVICE/UTILITY, and provided MUCH CHEAPER! When people are paying $100+/month simply to get 'on-line' they are reluctant to spend MORE money to access 'things' on the internet... I mean, if I pay $100 for a CABLE TV package, then I got $100 worth of CABLE TV channels to watch... You didn't just pay $100/month to have ACCESS to an EMPTY cable service, and then have to pay an additional fee to actually watch anything...
But you paid $500 for a tv that doesn't do anything without a source. Not to mention how much free content there is on the internet.
@@muzlee7479 Bad comparison. One is a recurring payment, while the other is a one-and-done payment.
There is a simple solution for customers when your service provider decides to do very bad things to you. You leave. There are always alternate ways to do things.
Recording and leaking private phone calls is totally a scummy thing to do.
WHEN YOU'RE NOT TALKING BUSINESS AS A REPRESENTITIVE OF A HUGE COMPANY WHO GOES ON TO PUBLICLY LIE
To be fair, it's completely legal to do that where the developer of Apollo lives (which is Canada). Only one party (in most cases, that's the person recording the phone call) needs to consent to recording the phone call.
@@Gestrid What's legal doesn't determine what's ethical or what's rude/'scummy'.
Laws determine the bounds of what is criminal, not what is polite.
"Recording and leaking private phone calls is totally a scummy thing to do" sure, but its ok when fucking corporations do it hundreds/thousands of times per day right?
If twitch and other platforms were more transparent, people would probably be more understanding with changes and maybe recommend much better ones or good compromise.
But nope
Hypothetically ,I think any shark who would take on LMG would know it's built different and that in your role as a trusted reviewer/ content creator that honesty and clarity is what makes it awesome. Your reputation is everything.
It would take something like good mythical morning buying smosh to save a fellow creator, half altruistic half "if we right the ship it might stay afloat itself with time". A shark would mismanage at best and gut at worst.
What creator is big enough to handle LMG? If anything LMG is the one in a position to save smaller creators.
And then they’d use that reputation to screw over as many people as possible while making as much money as possible to recover the money they paid.
The disruptor of this stability, this time - isn’t a better alternative. It’s VC money and IPO hopes and dreams causing the enshittification of services via profit above all. It’s money and greed only.
One thing to note about private hosting, LTT has the knowledge to basicaly host (or create) everything they want. The general peoples don't and depend on managed services and there is likely a bunch of peoples that doesn't know that the usual website hosts have some one-click install for forums (I'm not up to date with other stuff like wordpress that seems to be able to do pretty much anything... but I'm pretty sure it exists!)
The problem is not just creating a website, but also moderating it.
@@Eiferius while you're not wrong, the moderators for the subreddits are already doing this for free. So that part doesn't change.
The added cost is mainly infrastructure, both servers and keeping the servers up to date.
@@TobiasHarms Which is slowly getting more accessible with, more powerful cpus etc. Like i have a home server at home which is just an old mini pc with a Ryzen 5 5600G and 32 GB Ram for what cost me not much more than 350 Bucks.
Add to that more People just Having Solar Panels in their Backyard, meaning they are Power Independant (Its easily enough for a small Home server), and the large increase in fibre optic cables people have in homes, making them have the bandwidth for self hosting.
@@the_mastermage Consumer internet plans typically ban web hosting.
Heck I have seen several webhosting TOS banning hosting things like Internet Relay Chat.
@@jamesphillips2285 Yup, plus most users are behind CGNAT without the option of IPv6. Pretty much ends any kind of hosting without a relay, which is still probably centralised or costs a lot of money.
spez can get bent.
Money grubbing and faking income streams for IPO is gonna go over real smooth.
This is why social media companies shouldn't be companies. They should be charities/nonprofits funded by donation buttons. People maintain entire operating systems like Linux for free. I'm pretty sure people would also support an open source social media platform too
Linux has corporate sponsors who rely on it e.g. basically every single company with a website
@@sycration Sponsors are essentially donations
@@sycration What do you mean?
Cost of maintaining an OS is close to non-existent compared to running a social media company. Those servers and hardwares cost shitton of money.
@@alalalavaladu3670 The only real cost would be servers and hardware. This could be solved by using a community-run file-sharing system similar to TOR. Or it could survive off community donations. The service that literally stores and documents large parts of the internet, The Internet Archive, is a non profit community run project. Wikipedia the largest source about anything on the internet is also open source. If organisations that literally archive the entire internet can do it then something like Twitter can too
Down with greed, Down with corruption. Hold everyone accountable
The moment i cant use my 3rd party app im out.
don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
Amazon is probably attempting the same thing as they did with online marketplaces, but the strategy doesn't transfer well. One reason could be that "I trust this website for years and won't buy anywhere else" doesn't really exist here
it probably won't go the same for Amazon. most of its profits come from AWS. without AWS, Amazon would actually be bleeding money.
I miss the old forums; I miss those old websites, but I don't want to go back. I also wouldn't be upset to see some of these "titans" of the internet fall, if only to see what new comes and all they have stifled over the years with buyouts and burying competition.
Newcomers are often worse than what they replace
I feel this. The active push to consolidate everyone on the same 4 websites is aggravating.
@@momob4276 exactly, I'm fine checking more sites
the independent API users are even not angry about paying at all, just that the asking price is totally insane.
they're willing to pay for the Traffic they generate, but... not wayyyyy more than their fair share.
The thing is, users of other apps not only incur costs for network traffic etc., they also don't get served ads which also has to be compensated!
@@phantomlordmxvi
besides that the Platform is asking API uses to pay far, far, far more than their fair share of the costs associated.
this is orders of magnitude higher than Ads and Bandwidth costs.
if......... the Numbers weren't obvious enough to you on that already. have you looked at the Numbers? compare them to literally anything else on the Internet.
don't just simp, look at the actual information.
Something screwy will happen with Discord, I guarantee it. Such gigantic platforms with so many costs and no real revenue model. Surely they don't make much with Nitro? I remember when they raised the file size limit for free users from 8 MB to 25 MB and It's like.. why are you giving freebies to people who don't pay?
They log EVERYTHING, discord is a data mining paradise.
You guys should host a Lemmy instance and move the subreddit there. It would be self hosted like the forum but more accessible from other Lemmy users and with an interface very similar to Reddit's interface.
Like nested conversations? I can’t use old style forums or Twitter, and I normally avoid CZcams comment’s simply because of the inability to follow a comment string in any kind of intelligible way.
@@FinishHim90 Worst thing are removed comments... you don't see that there was something that was removed. So you have these people who seemingly talk to themself.
Nintendo had official forums.
Absolutely without warning, the whole forum shutdown. Not even the mods knew in advance.
So entire communities just collapsed. I forgot how but I think a few of us had shared emails and we built a network and started our own forums for those that were searching for the remains of the community. Luckily a lot of the resources were saved offline on our computers as well so we were able to rebuild our "wiki".
It's beautiful. Another scummy organisation that contributes to anxiety is off my list.
I've joined kbin and enjoying it so far. ❤
Thanks for spreading the word about this. I moderate a subreddit that is health condition focused, so going private was a very hard choice to make knowing there's a real chance people will be hurt by doing so. We had to though. Users of the sub rely on 3rd party apps for things as simple as dark mode, but there's zero chance customizable dark modes will be considered accessibility options for free API access.
With the 48 hours over, we chose to change the subreddit from private to restricted - basically blocking new posts but making historical data accessible. Plus we've had a Discord for years now to point people to.
Anybody else discover Lemmy during this whole thing?
None of these social media companies started as “multi billion dollar juggernauts” and so they were never designed from the ground up to have profitability, it was a “well built the user base and we’ll worry about money later” because they all had loads of investor input based on *perceived* value due to user base size.
Well the jig is finally up and everyone is realising actually making money from these platforms is extremely difficult, the investors want return and ~surprise!~ people who’ve used a free service for a decade aren’t interested in being messed with.
the “social media collapse” is coming i think, as everyone wants it for free because that’s what they’re used to, and there’s only so much value you can milk out of people before it becomes too much hassle and they leave
I agree with some other comments in here. If companies want to make these moves, just say that it's because they aren't profitable anymore. Stop trying to take some moral approach and just tell the truth.
Nothing encourages people to continue doing business with you like saying "we're about to go bankrupt".
People would still be mad that the company needs money to host the site because many seem to think that server hosting is just as it was back in the 90's with user count's being tiny compared to today.
Highly doubt that would help anything. Would probably make more people jump ship if they realize the website is about to disappear
When are we going to get an LMG Mastodon instance?
A lot of folks are also deleting their accounts too. I included, one 8 year, and another 12 year old account with a combined 100k karma.
@@bones642 Bro, that's like basic stuff every site does
There *is* a free and open source federated streaming service that you can host for yourself called Owncast, which I guess someone could try to use as a basis for a twitch competitor, but getting it to a point where streamers can make money from ads or subs is ridiculously hard lol
heh Only Sponsors :P
FYI - There is no inheritance tax in Canada.
Not directly but there's tax payable at death which essentially does the same thing
I am glad you are talking about this. Please keep this issue updated as it goes. Your platform is a great way to spread the truth of what is going on and hopefully help make change.
Moved to Lemmy and its great. Really enjoying the optimism and how the service works.
This will happen to discord as well. I think it will be even worse
It happens to pretty much every company that starts small and grows to be huge. First it's all about the community then they realize they need to make money to keep it going
14:00 I'm not on Floatplane but is the WAN show uploaded there too? If CZcams ever gave them the finger would I still be able to find WAN stuff over there on Floatplane?
Back in my day we had peer to peer. It'll be nice if we can go back to that.
That is true! Kazza and the like were so cool!
The real Web3.0 needs to actually be distributed peer to peer. This relying on dedicated servers to serve everything isnt sustainable. Why do we need streamers to go to Amazon then out from Amazon. Sure the tech isnt there but if a streaming service can figure out peer to peer seamlessly they'd actually be able to be profitable.
Not to mention that calls with these companies usually start with “This call may be recorded for quality purposes..” that pretty much gives both parties the right to record 🤷♂️
The cutouts arms for this clip are fantastic. Luke looks constantly shocked and I'm rolling
You know shit is just unbelievable when Linus goes OH WOW for like 5-6 times in a row
4 words: open source Activity Pub
Makes me want to start a Deaddit site. Have a similar set up for people to migrate to.
On the note of "Clawing back what you gave". That's the main reason I pulled up the skull flag for CZcams. One day background play randomly disappeared only to come back later as a "New" CZcamsRed feature
YT, Twitch etc. can go ham on the ads in an effort to get people to sign up for memberships which allow watching ad free but people just won't do it, not enough people anyhow. The ads are just a turn off, literally I'd rather turn off the content and find something else to do that's free than pay for something that used to be.
@@ganymedehedgehog371 maybe so, but tbh.. the ad spam is over the top and more often than not are excessively loud for no reason. add to that the tracking alphabet/google et al are doing is straight up ILLEGAL. literal spying on people. police, fbi and all need warrants to actually spy on people here in the us, no company has the necessary level of authority. contracts/EULAs cannot override state and/or federal law, otherwise they're invalid. and DO NOT get me started on malicious ads, which unfortunately are a rather common thing.
Saying the two day blackout is a "mistake" seems oddly American, perhaps you don't have as much experience with strikes. But they are regularly used in European countries with great effect.
It starts as a mere "demonstration of power", then increasing gradually if needed, but also avoid escalating things needlessly.
There are no inheritance taxes in Canada.
Discord is being anti-user as well. I wonder what's going on, is there some sort of connection?
It's almost like our current economic system it's set up to reward anti-consumer behavior while punishing attempts to do the right thing
VC funds drying down
I feel like pretty much all large social media platforms are anti user since that's how they generate revenue.
@@nooneinpart agreed! I didn't mean to imply they were of the same caliber, just that they're also making decisions that are near unanimously hated.
Disabled Moderators as in people with disabilities i.e: Missing Limbs, Sight Issues. Third-Party Apps have given users Accessibility Solutions such as bigger Font, Text to Speech
On that last point about "clawing back" revenue, progressive tax systems have existed forever. You could claw it back to increase profits on larger creators while also incentivising creators to get started. I know rich people are stupid, but I mean the systems and mechanisms to make stuff work do exist.
Also cutting workforce is another stupid rich person thing. It may not affect the company the next day, but it does make those companies measurably worse in the months or longer to come.
It's like offshoring. Offshoring doesn't work.
48hrs block is useless just like blocking your abusive spouse for 48 hours and coming back. the message is "no matter how you treat me I'm coming back"
A protest with a scheduled end is not a protest at all.
To the dude that says Amazon has plenty of money you have 0 concept of how business actually works and shouldn't even type. Just listen very closely to Luke & Linus. just because you have tons of revenue, you don't want to burn it all when you get it back from other sources. You want all your investments to be profitable because if part of your business is losing money you're going to find ways to cut that cost or generate more revenue. Every company does this during its entire existence in one shape or form from lay offs to increasing certain running cost. Due to inflation Nothing will ever have a true fixed cost when running a business on a corporate scale such as Amazon, you will always have to find a market where you can make money while improving your way of how you used to make money at the same time.
Time to make Floatit
I loved this WAN show, it went so late!!
FYI: We don't have inheretance tax in Canada.
Noticed my favourite subreddit was set to private and had no idea why. I guess this is why 😂
I don't mean to attack you when I ask this, but I'm genuinely curious: how did you miss the pinned posts in basically every other subreddit for the past few weeks? There were days where my front page was more "we're privating this sub on June 12th" than anything else. It wasn't a sudden decision, it's been weeks in the making.
Virtual Luke is awesome, I could hardly tell the difference.
"theyre the same picture"
I heard something about part of it being some admin/mod bots not being able to work anymore because of the price changes.
One of the big things was that when the US treasury bond had like zero interest, the cost of loans to these multi-billion $ companies a ton led them to make these investments in things that have huge user-bases on the idea that somehow they could be converted to make money again, since loaning the money to run it was basically free.
No mention of StackOverflow moderator strike?..
Can we bridge the forum into lemmy space?
They could add a plugin that adds ActivityPub support, although it'd probably just be better off to export the database and create a new Lemmy or whatever instance with the old data
It's a 48 hour blackout then on June 30 when the policies go live, they will do another blackout but this time it will be indefinite
They increased API limits for their free tier to 100 queries per minute which they believe moderation tools will stay below. I don't believe there is any specific exemption for moderation tools in general.
prime gaming is a value add for amazon prime, so twitch was a loss leader for a while, amazon has a lot of money so they can afford to do it and build up their prime offering so that people end up paying there and get a free sub on twitch plus free games/content every month. Now Prime has been around for a while, and has a lot of sticky benefits the prime gaming one isn't pulling its weight anymore so time to get twitch to stop bleeding money. At one point though it did work.
Yeah, the whole point of Twitch is to connect it to Amazon Prime, and tie people into the Amazon commercial ecosystem. It makes Prime more attractive. It's the whole reason they started Prime Video and Music, as well. It's about the value-add to Prime, which gets you buying crap from Amazon, because it's easy and fast.
Its also important to note that Twitch is a great example of AWS. To many businesses who would consider streaming video content on their platform, AWS seems really reliable and battle tested. B2B can be really lucrative and Amazon is trying to host as much of the internet as possible.
Too many subs are going public already. A protest means nothing when you give them a deadline. Going public means you don't actually care about the issue and were just doing it to follow the trend. This makes me really sad.
It's the first step of an escalation process. You start out small, demonstrating what your group can do, and trying to bring the other party to the negotiating table. If the other party doesn't back down, *then* you push for total blackout.
The entire site is nothing but angry slacktivists. If push comes to shove they'll just demod everyone, re-open the subs, and start over. Redditors hubris is some of the top of the internet.
Someone should make a backup of important subreddits so we can preserve the knowledge contained within them.
Going public always ruins everything
Honestly the people who were against the protest should be ashamed of themselves, the only way real change ever happens is by actions and letting your voice be heard. Trying to dissuade people from doing so is just so defeatist.
48 hours is not enough, make it indefinite
It already is
I'm surprised you don't have corporate life insurance or life insurance owned by the trust to pay off any deemed disposition, like the sale of LMG.
Remember when they introduced gold and they had a progress bar to show how much of their server costs were covered by it?
This clip is already outdated, the story has been changing everyday since WAN show
it's only been since saturday their little tempertantrum started.
Return to forums!!!
Single party consent is amazing. You have no idea how dishonest people are, until they change their behavior when they discover they were recorded.
Make the business a worker cooperative! Group democracy and co-ownership!
Forums are so much better in finding what you need. Such a much better search feature / etc. I miss forums that have since gone way of facebook groups etc...