Wheel of Time show vs book: all the differences (Episode 7)
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2024
- We are looking at episode seven of the Amazon Prime show Wheel of Time and how it compares with the book, The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan. Ok guys, I actually liked a lot about this episode. Can we talk about that opening? AMAZING. Some concerns, but overall...much better than last week.
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
00:11 - A quick note about Mat
00:38 - Plot changes
05:53 - Overall thoughts on the episode
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The darkness within Mat is really offensive. Of the three boys, he's the one with the least amount of anger. Rand has the Madness creeping in and LTT's voice and his (Rand's) obsession with being as hard as cuellindar (sp?) because the Prophecies are pretty unambiguous that he's going to die at Shayol Ghul, and Perrin has the occasional wolfbrother berserk moments. The idea that they're saying Mat has all this anger in him is just a terrible alteration to the character ... wasn't it Suian who said in TDR that he reminded her of an uncle who was basically a super slacker but died pulling kids out of a burning building because he kept going in for more kids? THAT"S Mat, not ... this.
I really disliked how they turned Lord Agelmar into a jerk to Moraine. And I LOATH the who Rand-Egwene-Perrin nonsense.
YES YES to everything! Mat is the most INNOCENT of the kids (and like...stupid teen, but we can forgive that. Who hasn't been a stupid teen?) And Suian does say that - he's the kid who complains the entire time but truthfully is the first one to give his life for his friends. I'm just hoping they fix it. (If they blame the dagger, I can see it turning around...)
I was super surprised by Lord Agelmar too. I remember him being super deferential to Moiraine!
In Book 1 Mat was full of anger.
@@Bookborn Mat is who you want to go out drinking with. In Vegas.
Exactly... in the same way the the innocence of Hobbits enabled the carrying of the one ring, Matt's innocence protects him from the evil of the knife.
@@j.s.173 Probably due to the dagger(Or Mashadar)? Like what it did to Shadar Logoth?
They did Agelmar dirty. and since when Lan can teleport :D
I actually wrote a note on that and forgot to say it. I remember him being so nice in the books!
And I also wrote down about Lan teleporting as a difference, but my husband said he does often appear out of nowhere in the books so maybe it was a nod to that, however unrealistic as portrayed here 😂
There was no reason for the character assassination, this is the sort of thing that’s really annoying about this show.
@@gator7082 oh... There is a reason for the character assassination...
@Gator70 like what they did to Abel Cauthon… so unnecessary.
@@gator7082 like what they did to Abel Cauthon… so unnecessary.
I think removing the humor from this story was a mistake as well.
Mat, Thom and Min were supposed to be relatable and have good humor.
Even Rand and Perrin step in at times when Mat gets affected by the Dagger. Though theirs is a sadder gallows humor considering what they are dealing with. Rand finding out he is adopted/can possibly channel, and Perrin with the wolf problem.
Making Min come from a place so far from the Two Rivers instead of right by it was also not really a good move. Part of her good natured (in the books) ribbing of Rand, and part of why she is so endeared by him is they are from very near the same place and therefore relateable.
I hated this episode, now I no longer care what happens next because it just doesn't make sense anymore.
Funny enough, I agree with all your points, including praise. At first I was hoping Lan would just walk away and keep the friendzone going, but it ended up being handled well.
Oh no, I'm so sorry you hated the episode! I get it, it's hard to see something you love adapted in a way that isn't what you wanted.
I am 57 years old and have been an avid reader of, primarily, fantasy since i was old enough to read. I say that to explain where I'm coming from. I loved this book series. Probably the best fantasy series I have read. So I want to see a movie like rendition of the best series of the book. Not a bunch of other people's attempts to improve on a great story. Thus far it's definitely the Moraine and Nyneive save the world with a little help from this guy called the dragon reborn. I don't like that.
I did like this episode more than the last ones. It seemed like they attempted to get the story back on track. They dropped the ridiculous theme of who the dragon reborn is. We will see how the next episode goes.
The changes in this series are so significant that I can’t even call it another turning on the wheel.
I think if I wouldn't have read the books, I might like this show. I am watching every episode hoping it will turn around but it just seems like so many unnecessary changes. The Mat darkness thing angers me greatly, the love triangle is stupid. Min isn't Min. Then there are the changes that are meaningless but annoying, like Fal Dara should be snowy and cold. Maybe my biggest complaint, Rand's heron mark sword, no one even asked him how/where he got it to this point? He spends a chunk of the first book just trying to cover up the heron because everyone notices. Then the book scene in Camelyn where everyone freaks out, at this point is the heron mark a symbol of a blademaster anymore, or just a tool for Rand's parentage. It's going to be stupid if for all of season one he carries this in the open and then in a later season people start freaking out about where he got it.
Yeah, it feels really weird that they focused SO much in on that heron in the beginning, but now...it's nowhere. Like, it would be a 10 second scene to have Lan be like "where did you get that? Cover it up" sort of thing.
The show contradicting itself and not making sense most of the time, has nothing to do with having read the books or not. It is just poorly written even without the knowledge of the books
Min is one of my favorite characters from the book and I feel like this portrayal of her is awful. She always brought humor, quick wit, and a unique spunk to the story, but I don’t see the actress they chose, or the direction they have her playing her character, bringing that to the light. I am not happy at all with the show as a whole, I really don’t understand how they have so much great material to use and choose add things in that are boring, not needed, or could have been much shorter, like the warder funeral, Moraine lesbian scene, and so much time on character building and romances that could have been done naturally over the seasons instead of forced down our throats. The fact that they spent so much time trying to badly hide the fact that Rand was the Dragon and then reveal it how they did, is just pathetic. Hopefully they are able to get some new directors, editors, and production to change things or I see this show being lumped in with every other failed attempt to try and bring a great fantasy series to tv/film. Which is horrible because I love WOT and consider it the best high fantasy series of all time, so maybe I just had my hopes to high. LOTR and the first 4-5 seasons of GOT are the only ones that have been able to do it some far. Looking forward to if they ever try to adapt Mistborn to tv or film though, that would be interesting. I think Zendaya would play a good Vin.
It's so weird because I had written down "wow this doesn't look anything like the Min of the book!" But then I looked up her actual description and I guess...it actually does haha. I think so many of us imagined her different, because I've been talking to some of my book-reader friends about it - we all imagined her much shorter and way more boyish, young, round-faced. It felt more snarky/sharp in the show and not quite as witty/friendly, you know?
Agree I can't see anything of Min from the books, I mean at the very least get the hair right! I guess they are cutting all of Min's story from the White Tower and her appearance changes
I'm with you 100%. Everything you said was a breath of fresh air from the flimsy excuse making of so many others. So many fans are DESPERATE to like the film that they forced themselves to forget what good adaptations look like. Go watch The Witcher season 2 to recharge your faith in directors and writers. It's superb.
I think Min's look is fine. I am willing to give her a few more scenes because I agree she seemed to be missing some of the spunk she had in the books. Perhaps things will change after Rand comes back from the eye we will start to see some better chemistry. One thing I am concerned about and need to check on re-watch is I swear when Moiraine first starts to talk about her she mentions knowing about her when she was young. Which implies a heavily aged mythical Min so vastly different from books. She should be only a couple years older than Rand. Keep watching and see I guess.
The showrunner is the problem. He's the one making the call on the direction of the story, what gets emphasized, what doesn't, what gets added and what gets dropped
Thank you for producing these videos. As someone who has read the books but doesn't remember the details as well as you, your videos are especially cathartic in resolving the inevitable thoughts of "I don't remember this" or "I think that's not quite how it went down in the book." After each episode, I hop over to CZcams to watch your summary of the changes and find myself nodding along, "Yes! That's right! Good memory!"
Thanks for watching!
Love what you are doing here. I may not like what the show is doing as much as you do, but I appreciate how you go over the differences between the book and the show.
Thanks for watching!
Wow you went through that one fast.
I will definitely agree with you that the triangle between the three was not good, it stuck out like a sore thumb.
Min, I don't know, she wasn't what I expected.
And loyal at this point just feels like he's there to please the fans.
I'm so glad everyone is saying that Min doesn't feel right. I thought the same thing, but when I actually looked up her description in the book, the actress does fit it. I think we all just collectively view Min differently haha. I imagined shorter/more boyish looking/friendlier/younger.
Which is ironic, because everytime I see Loial now I just feel sad. The actor is SO good, but his costume is just embarrassing and they've just left him there as a token. As a huge Loial fan, I'd rather they had just cut him out like they did most of the book.
They should rename this the Nyneave show, also Lioal saying Ogier are slow when he can outrun horses.
To me it seems more like the Egwene show, personally. I feel like the show runner must LOVE Egwene because her character is so weird in the show. He's giving her so much air time but not with the actually cool stuff she does in the book.
@@Bookborn I agree she is getting lots of extra air time but every episode it’s the awesome Nyneave show saves multiple lives with spontaneous healing. check. Tracks LAN and sneaks up on him. Check. Is snarky with the Suian way more than book version. Check. Has LAN worshipping her in under one book when it took over 5 books before he even started admitting his feelings for her to himself. Check. I am surprised she didn’t march into the white locks camp and rescue Egwene and Perrin herself.
@@abigailslade3824 This makes me quite eager to see how they handle her vs the spider for the 1st time :)
@@Thrawn878 that’s sort of the point though isn’t it Nyneave has plenty of badass moments without the need to invent more and steal the limelight from the rest of the group all the time. Her fight against Moghedien is epic.
@@abigailslade3824 I agree no additional needed scenes however from what iv seen from the show they seem to be accelerating things to top off at 8 seasons? Cast aging and cost to go for a full 14 run.
So I assume they are showing this now (though early in my opinion) to establish
A) she can channel
and
B) she is the most powerful female channeler since the old days before the world broke.
though while like I said on the page the spider battle (1st one) would do that by itself ,
but
because the structure is being speed up and the spider nor any of the 13 yet established fully we have to show it early and multiple times to establish she can only channel when angry and when she does it. It's something that's more powerful than other female channelers or at least gets there attention. Especially since she's a "wilder" ;)
This is why I HOPE one or two of the 13 as in the book show up in the last episode (8).
Because they need to be fully established and there power level shown to be better than 99% of any male/female channellers in the world. This really emphasizes that Nyneave ability to match them is a BIG deal.
So while we as readers didn't get that shock untill the spider fighter MAYBE (big stretch here) she will show her prowess at the eye of the world IF they show one or both of the original 13 in the book that show up?
Sorry for the very long ramble and likely grammar errors.
I really enjoy your videos. :) Thanks for the book comparisons (for newbies like me)… I really loved this episode. Super excited for the season finale!
Me too! I'm hoping the finale is the best episode yet!
If channeling calls Machin Shin, then changing the Waygates to be opened only by channeling seems kind of like a weird change. Also good catch on Trollocs being in the Ways if Waygates can only be opened by channeling.
How did I miss that very important plot hole? Good point. Supposedly there is a bonus scene that shows Fain with the avendesora leaf. So people are theorizing that something about Mat leaving made them re-film the scene with Moiraine opening it with the power. That's completely unverified... but may make sense?
I guess channeling from outside the way to open it wouldn't summon Machin Shin, and channeling from inside to open the way out you would exit immediately. But yeah, it does seem a bit clunky
@@blackpaw29 right, the risk is that you are stuck inside with no way out until channeling. I suppose if you manage to avoid Machin Shin during your time inside, maybe there isn’t enough time for Machin Shin to find you before you channel, open the exit, then close it behind you. Not sure though
@@Bookborn could be Liandrin or some black ajah. But we only see Fain getting out so idk.
@@Bookborn I don't think its really a plot hole since the ways weren't originally dark/dangerous and Machin Shin didn't originally exist in the ways. It came into being as the ways became more and more corrupted by the male half of the one power over time.
What about Min’s vision of Rand holding the baby. What’s all that about? I don’t remember that being in the book. I wish the other cryptic visions were included as well.
I liked Lan and Nyneave’s relationship more in the book. Nyneave pretty much accepted her fate as a spinster Wisdom and Lan was more of a cold warrior killer who accepted the fact he was duty bound to die fighting the blight. Nyneave was also more concerned with being proper. I don’t think she would of been so quick to jump in the sack with Lan.
The following passage is more what I would of liked to see. A bit tragic and a bit more of a will they won’t they slow burn.
‘Lan looked back at her just as intently. It seemed to Rand that the Warder’s face actually softened. “I am not a king, Nynaeve. Just a man. A man without as much to his name as even the meanest farmer’s croft.”
Nynaeve’s voice steadied. “Some women don’t ask for land, or gold. Just the man.”
“And the man who would ask her to accept so little would not be worthy of her. You are a remarkable woman, as beautiful as the sunrise, as fierce as a warrior. You are a lioness, Wisdom.”
“A Wisdom seldom weds.” She paused to take a deep breath, as if steeling herself. “But if I go to Tar Valon, it may be that I will be something other than a Wisdom.”
“Aes Sedai marry as seldom as Wisdoms. Few men can live with so much power in a wife, dimming them by her radiance whether she wishes to or not.”
“Some men are strong enough. I know one such.” If there could have been any doubt, her look left none as to whom she meant.
“All I have is a sword, and a war I cannot win, but can never stop fighting.”
“I’ve told you I care nothing for that. Light, you’ve made me say more than is proper already. Will you shame me to the point of asking you?”
“I will never shame you.” The gentle tone, like a caress, sounded odd to Rand’s ears in the Warder’s voice, but it made Nynaeve’s eyes brighten. “I will hate the man you choose because he is not me, and love him if he makes you smile. No woman deserves the sure knowledge of widow’s black as her brideprice, you least of all.” He set the untouched cup on the ground and rose. “I must check the horses.”
Nynaeve remained there, kneeling, after he had gone.
Sleep or no, Rand closed his eyes. He did not think the Wisdom would like it if he watched her cry.’
Ah man, I forgot how good that scene is even though it comes out of nowhere in the book. Imagine if that's the convo they had in the episode. They had some of it, but it would've been nice if they included more of it.
@@Bookborn I don't agree that it came out of nowhere. It was more that during the time period where Nynaeve and Lan had been growing closer - we were following Rand, Mat and Thom as well as Perrin and Egwene. We're viewing the events from the perspective of Rand. So it might seemingly come out of nowhere, but I always assumed it came from the bond forged where we did not see these characters.
Overall I'm enjoying the show more than I believed I would. But I'm not happy with all the changes. In particular, Lan feels so shallow, simple and overly emotional in the show. Look at that exchange between him and Nynaeve. Look at how he helped teach the boys to fight from the moment they left Edmonds field onwards. His explaining to Rand that he was not yet worthy of his blade but he might become so. Then there's this whole lack of explanation of the flame and the void that we see Rand using in this episode and how this was how it helped Rand to channel.
This is my favourite series of books of all time. And whilst the TV series is ok and fun for a TV show. I've taken to it as a poor-man's knock off from the actual source material because none of the characters have any of the real charm they have in the books.
But lastly glad to say you found a new subscriber in me because I agreed a lot with some of the things you say.
1000% yes to this. But instead we get modern culture sexual freedom. I have nothing against it, but forcing our modern culture on THEIR culture is pretty boring, and jarring. Just makes it less of another world, and more of our own current times. Definitely more boring and predictable.
@@brednbudr2406 I agree with you bud. I think WOT is trying to hard to be GOT by interjecting 10 min sex scenes in some kind of formulaic way to get audiences to watch. Even though it’s not as graphic as GOT I get burned out on all of it. I think the producers fucked up and would be surprised if they kept a more wholesome innocence to the characters that eventually gets chipped away as they progress throughout the journey. A slower courtship between Nyneave and Lan would of worked instead of throwing them in bed together. In fact the opportunity to bond Lan as a Warder was one of the main reasons Nyneave went to the White Tower to become Aes Sedai.
Regarding Mins viewing of Rand holding the baby. My potential spoilery thoughts....
I think it is Mins and Rand's baby. The books she viewed Elayne's babes and Avienda's as well but never had her own so I think it is nod to that but with her own interjected for show. This is why she responded the way she did when Moiraine asked her whose.
Didnt get to see the episode yet. Just somebody please tell me rand is the dragon reborn in the show
As of this episode, Rand is indeed revealed to be the Dragon Reborn. HALLELUJAH (Not saying it can't change next episode though...just hoping it doesn't)
@@Bookborn thank you😁
110% agree on the ways being a wonderful way to show that Nynaeve can only channel when mad. Loved that so much.
Watching with you has been such a rollercoaster! You really do well at being hopeful, but unwilling to like a show that cuts corners/is not willing to stay true to important themes of the books. I was really down after last ep too. Feeling like 'there's no way they are going to bring it back in two episodes.'
But yeah... Really liked this one. My favorite by a mile. They need more of the EF5 hanging out, the reveal that this whole time Rand hasn't been oblivious to what's happening to him made me so happy. Also Min felt really good.
It isn't like the book again, but if eps are more like this one and not ep 6, I could get into that
I'm sorry, I film these right after watching so I know it's a roller coaster of my real-time emotions 😂
Yes, The Rand reveal was SO GOOD when we see everything through his eyes. My only complaint is it needed to be longer! I wish we could've had an entire flashback scene with him with his Dad.
@@Bookborn Oh, dont apologize for it being a roller coaster, I've been all over the place, changing my overall opinion week to week as well.
I know! It was to short and sweet for my liking also. The pace really is breakneck this season to the shows detriment. I wish they had replayed Logain scene from Rand's POV, and made it clear that Rand saw him look straight into his eyes and start laughing. I was worried he would just be surprised to learn through some series of events that he's the Dragon. But with the flashback we see that he does have agency. He has seen the signs... and he's had suspicions for a while.
I just want to say I've loved your takes. You've been more forgiving where I feel book readers tend to be too harsh, and more harsh where I feel show fans are too forgiving. You want the show to do well like all WoT fans, but cant abide some really poor choices. Really well balanced and insightful opinions all series. Definitely one of the reviews I look forward to the most!
@@JesusIzAPunkRocker Thank you so much for the kind words!
And I agree, the reveal was better in that way than I expected - I thought it was going to be thrust upon him while he's been clueless, so I love the reveal that he's been wrestling with it the whole time.
@@Bookborn 2m Rand reveal, after 20m of Egwene, Perrin, Rand love triangle, and 15m "omgaw Nynaeve and Lan baaang".
Such a waste of an episode. Rand got tossed in last second as a crying afterthought.
It was an improvement but that isn't saying much. We are celebrating because we got a bigger crumb from the table, than the usual dust.
It just feels like Lan is more important than Rand, Perrin and Egwene. I don't get it.
Couldn’t agree more with your assessment. Great job.
Watch the 1st 5 episodes of Matt, I knew it was gonna be heartbreaking to see him go. He was doing soooooo good
I loved him so much. He did such a great job. I'm hoping our next actor does the same...there's a chance...
Not physically right for Matt, nothing against his acting, just not Matt . Glad he is being replaced.
One of the Top 3 actors on the show so far
Saw a shaved image of the old matt actor and i felt he was soooooo much more on point in appearance and dont know why they bearded him up. I felt he was acting well enough but we'll see how the new guy does. Still wish they didnt try to make him a stereotypical rogue archetype and stuck with his well off prankster not poor thief background
As a bookreader I just subscribed to hear your reviews as well. Good luck on your channel.
I look forward to this episode. I just finished episode 4. I think looking at the series as an adaptation helps, but I think book readers know what abilities characters such as Min have so we try to figure out how it fits in the story line. Great review as always.
I totally agree. Sometimes those small changes to make someone more powerful can have huge consequences later on. It'll be interesting to see...
Yup, you are a legend and yes, this ep is number 1 by an absolute mile as far as I am concerned. And i've mostly loved every ep, but this one really raised the bar, and set up ep 8 magnificently sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I dunno - wtf how do we have one ep left and the story has only just started? It's just like the book tbh, I think all things considered they are doing a smashing job and cant wait for a) this finale and b) next season. BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm SO excited for episode 8. If it's as good as this episode, I feel like the whole season is redeemed for me (since I've had some mixed feelings)
Yes, same, I felt "relieved". Exactly.
I really liked this episode overall. I will say that I wish the blight had been more similar to the way it was described in the books, as I had always pictured it as a sprase, almost alien landscape, not a giant mass of trees.
Completely agree, that's how I imagined it and I think how it was described - but maybe they felt it was too similar to other sparse landscapes they had been traveling in the show?
@@Bookborn I think it's to save money. They can copy paste the first few rows of those root things across the screen.
I never really pictured it as sparse, but not this tight together. Spacing and density wise with the trees I pictured them more as a regular forest just with sickly and alien looking vegetation.
@@NRamirez2250 it definitely has varied ecology. Not copy paste of twisted root structures.
*that clap stab intro is so gr8.* perfectly short. clap engaging. -jc
Been reading book again and watching the show…loving it to be honest ..great episode
I'm so glad you're loving the show!
Once again we agree as I also feel that Episodes 4 and 7 are the two best in the series.
Like with other episodes, I was unsure at times that I was watching WoT, but on the other hand, this episode got a lot of stuff right.
1) Introduced Min. Very thankful for that. She isn't the same as in the book- no surprise, but I was still glad to see her. Also LOVE that she mentions the "three beautiful women". Those are my three favorite females in the books, and I'd hate for any of them to be cut.
2) Discussed the possible plothole of Mat perhaps being the Dragon Reborn. Addressing it was far better than trying to pretend it wasn't an issue.
3) Nynaeve/Lan and Egwene/Rand - better relationships than in the books. Makes both women more likable in my mind. Ironically, for the over-the-top feminism that sometimes permeates the show, Egwene and Nynaeve are both in love with men, which is decidedly NOT feminist.
4) Finally gives us the reveal about Rand. Well done.
5) With Rand knowing what he knows, the obvious next step is for him and Moiraine to spare his friends by going into the Blight without them. The show immediately moves to that. Props.
Wait why is being in love with men not feminist lol that’s not a thing
@@Bookborn Depends on what wave of feminism you're into, I suspect. I'm thinking along the lines of - I'm a strong, independent woman and need no man - mindset. Egwene and Nynaeve definitely need their men.
My favorite episode so far. I was so amped up for this series until episode 6. It seemed almost the whole episode was filler and I was just lost. This one may have rescued the series for many of us. One casting gripe, just can't get on board with Min, hopefully she will grow on me.
I really align with your reviews and appreciate you not defending every change as so many do. Keep up the great work!
I don't get Min either!! It's the first casting choice that felt off to me. I looked up her description in the book and realized I've technically been imagining her wrong, but it seems like many of us did. I just imagined such a younger/more boyish/friendlier energy. She seemed a little too hard.
Nah. It's sad to watch everyone celebrate an episode that was slightly less crappy than the other ones, like it's a win. We got a bigger crumb than usual when we should be sitting at the table.
Still hoping the series gets canceled and someone else that wants to actually tell the WoT story can take it over some day.
The review I was waiting for! Well done! We don't agree but keep up the good work!
In the ways, they were not going to Fal Dara. They met a chiasm in the ways, a big hole into nothingness they couldn't find a way around, so they had to backtrack and fall back to Fal Dara.
BTW, Loial also goes to the Eye of the World.
And it cracks me up how people who read the WoT can be surprised or shocked about love triangles... or quadrangles... 😜I mean Come On People! 😂
I'm not shocked, but WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE! we have too many of them! 😂🤣
I totally forgot about Loial mostly because the show seems to just NOT CARE About him and it's heartbreaking. Like...where is he in the last half of the episode??
And you're right, I couldn't remember what happened in the ways, but someone else said the same thing!
I haven’t read all 400 plus comments so I don’t know if anyone mentioned this, but apparently on stills released by Amazon of Padan Fain in the ways he is holding one of the leaves needed to open the way gates. As far as what they are doing with Fain, I love it. I personally think they are skipping him becoming Mordeth and simply going with him being Mordeth from the start. I don’t know what this does for the Mat story arc, and maybe it changes Fain from being tied to Mat, but I don’t know. They established in the first episode Mat’s connection to Fain - him being the only one that speaks to him at all.
This episode was the best by a mile. I quite liked the cold opening and I enjoyed how they revealed Rand being the Dragon.
I don’t mind Moraine and Rand going off alone. I think the others obviously go after them. Masked bond or not , they know where they are going. Unless they stay behind to fight the Trollocs that Fain has brought with him.
Yes, people have mentioned that! We have been theorizing that *maybe* Moiraine originally opened the ways with a leaf but then because of the whole Mat thing, they needed a reason they couldn't go back and get him. Food for thought.
I don't mind them going off alone, either. That's the kind of change that brings tension to a tv show without really changing the book that much. I sort of like it.
The only thing I really didn't like about this episode was the dumb love triangle just for drama?? Can people not be friends without being in love with one another?? And it potentially adds tension between Perrin and Rand and that's silly. Silly, I say!!
It is extremely silly. Let's all collectively pretend it didn't happen and hope it never gets mentioned again
Great episode. The thing that you allude to that Lan gives to Nynaeve does not happen until early in book 2, so they may be holding off on that until season 2.
Oh, I blurred that in my head! For some reason I thought he gave it to her at the end of book one. So that gives me hope because I always liked that scene!
Best episode of the series so far. I wish we had gotten more conversations between the two rivers folks in episodes 4, 5, and 6. The opening was just fantastic and the clip you highlighted with the look on Tigraine's face when Tam holds out his hand is just an amazing shot. Anger to relief to gratitude to pain all in two seconds without any words.
It was just...a CHILLING scene in every way. What a good choice for a scene we didn't get to actually "read" but was so intense. Ugh, I Loved it.
I liked this episode. Finally they revealed things that I was angry that they left out in the first few episodes. This fight in the beginning was awesome as well.
Haven't watched it yet... now that I've seen this comment I think I can face it :)
Edit: Gosh is this how the cowboy bebop people felt.
This episode was a balm to my soul! I was so excited right from the beginning. I was talking to my brother, and I was like that's Dragonmount! That's the Aeil! I mean her face was uncovered during fighting which wouldn't have been a thing, but I think they were trying to show her face to let viewers see the resemblance. And she was so badass! I mean my mind screamed that a woman in labor could never do those things, but it was a joy to watch! Far Dareis Mai!
We get to see the Tam flashbacks we all wanted to see so bad in the first episodes. They were rushed, but at least we finally got them.
I liked the Ways scenes, but I'm with you on the channeling to open them. I've been trying to figure out how they're going to make that work. I can't imagine they'd let Fades channel, so it has to be the Forsaken opening them or make a certain Ajah. And how will a certain character use them later in the books? I guess I'll have to watch and see, but I don't love that change.
I'm 100% okay with the Lan changes. The family dinner isn't a thing, but I loved it anyway because it was very true to the spirit of the books. I loved that Lan asked Nynaeve to join him, and that they are expanding on their romance. It was my favorite of the books, and they are doing it even better than the Eye of the World did up to this point. I was really wanting Lan to say the iconic romantic poetry, and give her a certain thing, but maybe next episode or in the near future.
We get Min who I personally love even if a lot of the book fandom doesn't. As you mention it isn't quite right, but the general spirit of Min's character was enough to make me happy.
Fal Dara looked great, and while I wasn't keen on the show acting like Agelmar didn't want Moiraine's help, because he asks for it multiple times in the book, I'm still glad we get to see him. And with the appearance of Fain I'm hopeful for certain scenes from Great Hunt happening correctly in the near future.
This was my favorite episode! I'm curious if non-readers will appreciate it as much as readers will, but I needed this! I really hope next week's episode is this good!
I actually think most of the fandom loves Min lol! When I did my poll of who would you chose for Rand if you only chose one of the women, Min won by a LANDSLIDE.
Her face was covered in the beginning! But then she uncovered it to labor and had to kill again which I think made sense. As someone who has given birth, the amount of breath you need during labor is A LOT lol
My problem with the ways the way they are is the Black wind should be heading for them at the Entry too not just attack them every time they exit . . . which doesn't always happen in the books either :| so how are they going to work that one
i was a bit annoyed with the dinner till they cut in later and Lan explains it was 1 of the armsmen that got him out cos like it felt like he was with his own family and i was like they're all dead man. so the scene did redeem its self somewhat too me afterwards but i felt violated when i saw the dinner.
I get the feeling none readers have prefered the TV series over all more than Readers though some of them are still lost or confused by everything ,readers are just glad it's happening but some are a bit bummed on the way somethings are panning out.
@@Bookborn I was more of an Aviendha of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel fan, though min was a close 2nd, and whilst i wasn't a fan as such of Elayne as a loving wife, i could understand the political reasons on why he would. I also was a fan of all the Rand birthing scenes in the show it felt very loyal to the books something i've not felt before
@@SirBlaze75 I had the super unpopular opinion that Rand and Elayne were the best couple (nobody agrees with me LOL) not because I liked Elayne best, but they are both basic people so it seems to work 💀
@@Bookborn oh i was a big fan of Elayne as a political marriage and what she was able to bring to the table as a political animal herself, so i agree their relation ship worked on that level, I was a fan of Aviendha cos a red headed warrior princess was like phwaor to me and it felt like she was the only one able to keep up with him on a physical level and had a decent mental aptitude, Min was a great counter with her witt and sarcasm and kept rand on his toes. so both Elayne and Min were able to keep up and surpass Rand in some ways on a mental level only. and physically were but a candle in the wind.
I completely agree with everything you said here. Still not beat-by-beat with the book but still somehow much closer
Yesss I know we already talked on insta but I'm hoping the next episode follows suit!
Yea, this episode does bring me a little bit of optimism towards the show. As you mentioned, the last couple of episodes may not have been the best but this one is a solid 9/10 for me.
My only issues are with how they've made Lan a lot "softer" (if I could even say that), than how he is in the books. Also, I feel like they have skipped a big portion of the Lan/Rand relationship (won't mention more due to spoilers).
The other thing is, as you mentioned, with the Blight. I always imagined it almost like a post-apocalyptic wasteland with a lonely "tree" here-and-there.
Other than that, amazing episode that makes me excited for the next one.
I'm REALLY hoping we get Lan/Rand in season 2. A lot of that did happen in Fal Dara, so I'm remaining optimistic that it can still happen. Because, like you, I really love that relationship.
Great video! I really enjoyed this episode. So far in terms of episodes I'd say 4, 7, 5, 2, 6, 3, 1.
As for Mins viewings being too powerful - I think they are still open to her interpretation and are still seem somewhat vague. For example, I think she interpreted Moiraine's viewing as the inverse of what will actually be the case - Moiraine will be the Amyrlins downfall.
OH I LOVE that interpretation. We do know what happens to Suian later...I wonder if they'll somehow connect that to Moiraine (even though...of other events...trying to be spoiler free in case people look at this haha).
I have to admit, although I was surprised by them continuing their relationship into adulthood, I loved that Min moment. That's a good way to add drama, imo.
Hi 👋 watching it later I hope 🤞 fingers crossed I will this episode too!! Happy reading to you!! 📖☃️❄️
I hope you like it!
Intro scene was badass AF 😩😩🥰🥰
I do think this episode has been a huge step up, and I liked it. I’m still finding it hard to like the show overall though. My biggest complaint is the character development. The characters choices and attitudes don’t make sense to me, they just kinda happen without me understanding why. There just isn’t enough context in my mind. I guess it’s different for those who’ve read the books because they already have the fleshed out characters in their minds. Maybe I should stop watching the show and read the books first, and then come back to the show. That might take a while to though lol.
As a non book reader you are not alone, I have read all the books, my wife none she has the same opinion as you. Pacing is another issue with her, and she has an MFA in Directing.
Ah, I was REALLY wondering about this! I bring so much "backstory" to all these characters that it makes sense to me. So super interesting to hear your perspective that they just aren't making sense.
@@odinsson852 I agree, everything feels like it’s moving too fast. The journeys feel like day trips rather than..well journeys. I guess they didn’t think 20 seasons of this show would be what people want, but I think they underestimate fantasy fans lol. 26 episodes per season would’ve been just fine by me haha
@@Bookborn I’m glad you do though, cause honestly if not for your videos I would’ve quit watching the show lol. The context you’re giving is helping me cope with the lack of it in the show
My wife the same way,non book reader. Found it so confusing and a lack of who these characters are she lost interest by episode 3. Didn't happen with her on Game Of Thrones.
For some reason I still cannot get over the gates(ways) not using keys. I would have loved to see the Avendasora leaf and the "organic" motion when the gate opens.
Supposedly in a promotional image/bonus content thing, Fain is holding the Avendesora leaf. So the current (unsubstantiated) theory is that they had to change it to Moiraine using the power to open the ways so it made sense that they couldn't get Mat back (since the actor left)
@@Bookborn Probably... I was just thinking about the thing they would be doing in the Two Rivers when my favourite character(The Lady Faile - Sorry for this spoiler) visits. I suppose the "power" can do stuff to it like in Shadar Logoth. But it was the boys that made the thing.
The great: I thought the opening scene was the single greatest scene in the show thus far. I've enjoyed the other scenes, simply because it's fun to see the book brought to life, but in every case I've felt the scenes have fallen short of the mental picture the book provided. This was the first scene that I thought exceeded the picture painted in the book (yes, this particular scene wasn't in the book-but, broadly speaking, I thought the depiction of Aiel maiden spear combat exceeded anything portrayed in the book). It was simply stunning.
The good: I also really liked the Fal Dara keep, especially the intimidating height and distance of its innermost tower, and the severity of the facade (very few windows).
And the bad: I thought the writer's decision to have Moraine send the Red Ajah after Mat was an ill-conceived and and heavy-handed revision of her character.
YES, I completely agree. My favorite scene in the show to date. I was completely riveted through the entire thing.
This Moiraine change seems similar to the change to have her involved in gentling Logain. It doesn't feel right to her character, at all.
One gripe I had with that first scene is that she was killing people while her veil was down.
you children are hilarious. I took a poo in the toilet and watched it flush down the drain. wow. it was the most amazing thing I ever saw, like, ever.
@@soyfreethoughts4306 be less of a whiny bitch. Don’t watch it and stfu
Interesting. I thought the opening scene was the worst scene in the whole show. Was ready just to turn it off and quit the series entirely. Been there for the birth of one of my sisters, two daughters and my grandson. Having a woman, in labor, killing a half dozen men twice her size in full armor is just over the top ridiculous. Thankfully the rest of the show was great.
Waiting all day for another release!
10K here we come!!
Did you like the episode?!
And thank you 🎉
@@Bookborn I think I'm feeling better about the direction they seem to be going in, and it seems there's a ton of people that are really loving the show, which is awesome.
I just wish that the showrunners would have had a bit more luck. Rafe wanted more episodes, a longer pilot, barney leaving, multiple filming interruptions due to covid, etc
@@RaabStephan Yes, I wonder if a lot of the hitches in the first season have to do with two cancelled episodes. That's fully TWO HOURS less of content than he was planning. With this last episode, I'm having a lot of hope again, and it seems like non-book readers are really enjoying the show which in some ways is more important as it's the bigger demographic 😅
I'm glad you're enjoying it more again! We thought it was a great episode!
I didn't think of it until you mentioned it, but if Lan's whole family was killed when Malkier fell (as he told Nynaeve later) then what is his relationship to the family he visited? I'm totally willing to accept found family, but how did he find them? And did it happen before or after he became Moiraine's Warder because "he had nothing to live for and nothing to die for?"
-Edit (because my replies aren't showing up for some reason)
@Devon Giles Ahh! When he said that some guy took him out of the castle i thought he meant Agelmar for some reason. I was wondering how a random armsman from Malkier became the liege of Fal Dara. Thank you for clearing up my confusion!
I believe he mentions to her that the old man of that family is one of his fathers former armsmen that helped Lan escape Malkier, so it's probably his family?
The old guy was Lans fathers liegeman, he took Lan out when Malkier fell and raised him at Fal Dara.
Yeah everyone below me is explaining it - but it happened so fast I'm not surprised you missed it. My guess is he became closer to them after becoming her Warder or something? It was a *little* chummy for Lan, but I didn't mind how they were trying to humanize him there.
It was explained that the man was Lan's Fathers bannerman, and he took Lan when the blight came to Malkier, when Lan was very young.
Thanks again. Fully agree with you - The show is true to the spirit to the books!!! I hope the show has hooked a big enough following. We need more seasons!!! It needs to finish very strong.
I think we are getting three seasons for sure...so that's a plus! If the next episode is like this one, I'll be excited going into season 2. Had some growing pains, but this one showed me what it *could* be.
This episode made me feel a lot better about the series. Would have preferred to still have Matt there but obviously that couldn’t be helped I guess.
Like you said the book is told from Rands view, so it’s good to see some of the scenes that reveal to much about him finally come together. Please mainly for the min scenes and the Tam scene in the woods. Love the maiden of the spear scene too.
Actually looking forward to the final episode and curious how they will play that out given some of the changes.
I really wish the Rand scenes would've been longer, but I really enjoyed them too! I think we have a great set up for episode 8 and I'm just reallllyy hoping they nail it at this point.
Great episode overall. Especially after the last one. So much to talk about. Loved the opening and I hope they keep the level of choreography for the Aiel for future fight scenes. Machin Shin was great and I love that Loial wasn't apparently targeted. He's too good of a boy. Also if you see an episode still for the episode you will see Padan Fain holding a golden leaf, hopefully fixing the issue of using the Ways in the future. I also wish Rands payoff scene was longer but it felt good nonetheless. Perrin/Egwene? Ugh just why. Loved Min and how her power works in the show. What's up with Rand holding a baby? Theories pls lol I'm hoping a lot of the things Moraine believes we find out to be just the effects of an unreliable narrator. I feel like they might be leaning heavily into that to create tension and mystery around the prophecies for the Dragon.
I'm hoping a lot of that random stuff is just to create tension too - because then we can all forget about it now that Rand has claimed he's the dragon lol
The baby thing has me super confused. Is it supposed to be a metaphor? Will Elayne only have one baby instead of Twins??? IDK
@@Bookborn If it is Elayne's then Rand would no longer be in Rand's body... Then again 3 women becomes 4 as he's already with Egwene (who won't be jealous of Elayne now?) so maybe there will be yet more additions to Rand's love life...
On the opening scene with Tigraine fighting was great. The only problem I have with it, is that she fought with her veil down. Seeing that it is shameful for an Aiel to fight unveiled. You can say it because of the labor pains but it is second nature to an Aiel to do this more so with Far Dareis Mai.
Also they did a good job on the signet of the warriors with the nine bees of Illian
Yeah, I excused it on labor pains but I get people's gripe with that.
A captain of soldiers sees his men’s getting kill killed by an Aiel
Woman but decides not to kill her because she is having a baby . 🙄 . Such nonsense . In the books he heard a baby cry and found her dead and save the baby . Much more likely
@@Bookborn seeing that She was not born an Aiel. She would have had to work twice as hard to prove herself worthy to be a maiden of the spear. Still overall it is my favorite scene of the series so far.
@@Dragonturtle99 I understand what your saying. I believe that it show Tam honor and compass to not strike down a woman in the process of having a baby. Even after seeing her kill his men. It show the strength of his character. But yes your right in the books she was dead already and the child was born crying
Ok the scene with Rand’s mother…holy heron. Dispatching like half a dozen armed men…while in labor. Yes!
I remember really wanting to know what happened when Tam found Rand so it was really cool to see this interpretation of it.
My favorite scene in the whole show was when she’s lying in the snow, despair in her eyes, and Tam takes her hands and she realizes he’s going to help her…you see her despair and desperation change into something like gratefulness and peace and a little hope…and her eyes…just for a moment she projects all of her energy, and pain, and love, and commitment to her child right out into the souls of anyone watching who understands what that means. Then she’s gone. That scene hit me deep.
Love your reviews of this. I’m watching the show with family who have not read the books and we’ve really enjoyed your perspective. I watch the episode, then your review, and then text my brother, who loves the books and is currently stationed over seas. Your reviews have helped clear some things up, like what was going on with the Actor who played Mat, and it’s been nice to be able to share that stuff with my brother who is an ocean away from his family. Anyway much thanks to you 🙏🏻
YES. That scene was SO powerful. I think in the book I always imagined that Tam already found Rand's mother dead and he just took the baby. This scene was just so much more powerful and so emotionally charged - wow, I just loved it. Highlight of the season.
Thanks for sharing your story with me. I love hearing how books like Wheel of Time can bring families and friends together 🖤
I am now a “book listener” thanks to you in part 😃I’m only as far as where Moirraine and Lan save Perrin and Egwyne from the white cloaks in Eye of the World. But Perrin does say that he loves Egwyne in the book. She’s just always had Rand. So the triangle is kind of there in the book…
Yeah, I guess I just always read that as brotherly love! But other people have read it a different way, and I think that's fair. I def have the bias of reading friendships more than romances.
I've read the books 3 or 4 times. It's brotherly love, nothing more. Never in all the books books does Perrin have a thing for Egwene. That being said, Egwene is the best part of the series. Matt has been ruined on screen. And it sucks to see him done so dirty.
Good stuff! This episode was continuing on the slowed down pacing, character development but with action and twists that made episodes 3-4 so great. Loved hearing your opinions and especially that episode 6 may have been just the odd one out in terms of enjoyment. Im definitely hyped for episode 8, I expect more deviation from the books, maybe we confront different bad guys, encounter different things on the way to the Eye, but Im excited. These changes keep the show fresh. Like I said in the previous comments, a one for one representation of the books, like in Harry Potter, removes a key component of why people read the books--the mystery--and it becomes no longer compelling. I'm sure no one is 100% happy with some of the changes but I know for sure that it keeps people engaged. That's what I'm all about and that's that keeps be at the edge of my seat vs this being something I can watch while multitasking. What a ride!
PS. I think more physical relationship between Lan and -Moiraine- Nynaeve is hinted at during their conversations while crossing the blight but certainly not shown as it wouldn't have been something Rand knew about. Either way, agreed that the show is doing it better!
Did you mean the physical relationship between Lan and Nynaeve? Because now that you say it, you're right - we only ever see their conversations through other's eyes and never Nynaeve/Lan's perspective, which probably colors it a lot. Either way, I honestly like the show changes.
Agreed. Like, I really loved the scene with Rand showing up at Moiraine's door and them peacing out alone. Was it in the books? no, but it was the perfect add of tension without destroying the feel of the books.
@@Bookborn oops, yes with Nynaeve! =P
Comments like this just make me cringe. "I like the changes because it keeps it fresh!!".... Then why claim it's the WoT story brought to film? It's as repulsive as the "it's just another telling of the Wheel" idea that is refuted by Amazon blasting that it's THE story. It isn't. And I'd agree with you if the writing was actually good, but it isn't. They've changed the story and filled it with garbage. We just spent 20m on a made up lovers triangle between Rand, Egwene, Perrin. This is MTV quality trash writing.
Great episode! Btw, you doing witcher s2 too?
No 😬 I read the first two books and wasn't super fond of them so I don't watch the show.
So the main narrative Arc of "Eye of the World" has been boiled down to flashbacks for Rand as a portion of Episode 7. Just so they could throw the Who is the Dragon? Twist in.
Meanwhile we got 2+ episodes of Aes Sedi filler. They should have just included that flashback stuff as part of the series as it developed.
I mean its a lot better than Episodes 5 and 6 but I feel like we have Lowered Expectations at this point. At least they aren't running with that crazy "They are all the Dragon" stuff people were worried about. Though it says a lot that they had changed so many things, that it had become an actual book fan fear.
I mean, yes, I definitely have lowered expectations 😅 I think the stuff in episode 5/6 was fine...if it was in season 2. That's where that stuff develops, mostly, in books 2 and 3. I actually liked Rand's flashbacks...but they needed at least a solid two more minutes. I wanted a FULL Rand/Tam scene, ya know?
Two absolutely frustrating things were the bs love triangle and the "inherent darkness" about Mat.
The love triangle puts an unnecessary dent into Perrin and Rand's relationship. The whole thing felt so fake and just there for drama and padding screen time. Could have used that time elsewhere.
Loved Rand defending Mat. Absolute bro moment.
Egwene was hilarious. Shits on Mat and then pretends like she didn't and asks for an apology lol.
Spot on.
My wife practically roared in anger, when Rand apologized to Egwene. Lol She's a keeper.
It was just so stupid. All of it.
Rewatching after finishing Season 2, I like that you mentioned the book is somewhat CW, and that it's not just a show thing. That cold open carried this episode, the rest was downhill, but I don't fault them. In addition to losing Mat for the final two episodes, this is also when COVID made a lot of their practical effects impossible due to restrictions.
I recommend trying out the Recluse Saga by L.E. Modesitt. Mid fantasy, way back setting,slow burn and goes into a lot of why people think and do as they do. You may wanna look up the timeline (spoilers there) to see where you may wanna start,the series covers a lot of chronology
Recluse series is awesome. If you are familiar with thermodynamics the magic system is basically based off entropy (chaos) and order.
In Min's viewing, she never says Suian will be Moraine's downfall.
Agreed. The changes are true to the spirit in most cases. I'm not liking the changes to Mat and Perrin, they could have made Mat a *little* darker without implying he has evil in him. And Perrin is feeling a little icky to me with the thing with Egwene and his wife. Which is sad, Perrin is knocking it out otherwise and witty Mat is amazing.
True true, are we thinking the *future* Amrilyn seat will be? With what we know about Moiraine's future...plot... it seems that they'll milk the Suian thing instead
SPOILERS
Ok I'm sick of talking in circle. Moiraine is dead for so long, it feels unlikely it would be Egwene right? But who knows with the show lol
The biggest problem with the love triangle they attempted, is that Perrin literally killed his wife by accident, and recently. Thank goodness he can drop all pretense and immediately run after Egwene ... smh.
Right...? They really aren't using the "killed my wife" thing correctly. They just aren't dealing with that trauma right.
Definitely not a fan of the triangle either, but I've just recently finished TEotW comics and Elyas does mention something about Perrin's feelings for Egwene. That said, it's never stated to be romantic feelings per se.
But it felt awkward on the show, it only confirms that his wife "Laila" was always a plot device to spice up the love triangle.
I believe they changed the opening of the Ways because of what happened with Mat, they needed an excuse not to go back for him and make it impossible for Mat to follow them later. Although, it may seem that Padan Fain has a way to enter (which may mean we'll get to see the traditional way of opening the Ways).
That Snowblood opening was amazing and probably the high point of the series. Glad to see they kept Tam's feverish confession and it was quite faithful to the book.
But I hate that Loial is basically useless aside from being a translator, he's no warrior in the books either but he even goes into the Blight too. I also wanted them to go deeper into Lan's backstory, the fall of the seven towers and so on... but I understand time is limited.
I also understand why they wanted to keep the dragon's identity as a big finale reveal, but c'mon, it was obviously Rand! Nynaeve and Egwene being suspects is a dumb way to drag them along into the story and feels like a way to exclude the Saidar vs Saidin stuff.
My guess for next episode is that they're going to follow them into the blight anyway and we'll probably get that scene between Nynaeve and Lan, the Green man, Rand's lightning and so on.
I keep thinking the green man will be axed like Tom Bombadil lol. But I totally agree that everyone is going to follow them in and hopefully have an epic finale!
And completely agree. The dragonmount scenes with Rand's mom are the highlight of the season for me. Epic, true to the book, and just great.
@@Bookborn true, the Green man would definitely take a lot of time and budget to include, and considering how they condensed the story... it makes sense if they cut him out.
Which reminds me, I still cannot believe that they cut Elyas completely from the series. Here's hoping we'll see him in season 2 since both Mat and Perrin felt veeeery underdeveloped (kinda understandable, tho). As a corvid nut I'm also pretty dissapointed about the lack of evil ravens in Perrin's scenes.
Sounds like as fellow book readers we went through a similar ride.
That said, this episode is my fav, even with unneeded the CW bits.
I'll miss two of Lan's best lines ever, but I got over never seeing Siuan beeing trapped in air by a certain someone!
The reveal may have been unexpected to the TV follower, but please be patiant, this guy grows into something so complex.
All this to say, I'll embrace the changes if you don't do season 7+8 of Got :)
Also, Tigraine/Shaiel "Wash the spears - All dreams must end."
Ohhh which Lan lines?!
And I think the Siuan being trapped in air doesn't happen until book 2 - although, you're right that it's probably passed now since she's already met Nynaeve. What a bummer.
@@Bookborn You may be correct about which books, I'm going with the series sequence when Nyneave met the seat.
What if after talking with Min, Rand he went to Lan and heard;
"Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain." before making the decision to tell Moraine who he is. Let alone "The earth thirsts to Siuan..." scene in Fal dara which can no longer happen.
For Nyneave the line was;
"I will never shame you. I will hate the man you choose because he is not me, and love him if he makes you smile. No woman deserves the sure knowledge of widow's black as her brideprice, you least of all."
Do the scene, Have Nyneave tug on her braid and kiss him, Lan breaks; still works.
The duty line is critical to Rand as the follow up is about learning to "Sheathe the sword" See Last battle callback.
I agree on all counts. This was head and shoulders above the rest. Best cold open, best pace, best everything. I agree that the love triangle is stupid. It seems so out of place, unless they're going to turn Perrin in Gawyn, which I could honestly see. I'm sure that because of timing, we're going to get quite a few doubles. I can imagine Loial being the Elyas guide for Perrin (based on books he's read), Liandrin being Elaida and Alviarin all rolled into one. Verin/Leanne being one and the same with Verin's big secret just not existing. The other explanation is that they're putting these jarring moments into the show for a big payoff later. I'll assume that until nothing comes from it. I keep telling myself it's another spinning of the same story to help me deal with my book-snobbish feelings, but then I often ask myself, Am I interested in a bad retelling of an adventure I adore?"
Guess we'll answer that slme other time.
Episode 7 has given me hope for 8. I'm also hoping 1-8 warchthrough all together will feel better than weekly.
This Episode set things right with me because I almost gave up on the show. I felt they spent too much time out in left field in a few episodes that didn't make sense at that point to do. However, I feel the show redeemed itself in this episode alone. I loved the Spear Maiden scene and as Soon as I seen it, I knew everything about this episode was going to be right.
I still feel like all the different cities that were missed and not meeting Elayne yet is disappointing but I understand it would make the series infinitely longer, either way we had to meet Min first anyway so I think Elayne should be in season 2. Min gave a few good hints in her visions... I did like the visual of the black wind as I wondered how they were going to interpret it and it's close to how I thought about it when I read the books. Also there was a small hint that Padan Fain was with them in the ways... the whistle before the trolloc jumped out. But I too am wondering what his purpose is being there and looking forward to his purpose at this point, it's hard to gauge because so much was cutout of the story from the books and I just started to reread again to remember a lot that I had forgotten about. I wish though on the flashback with Rand carrying Tam had a little bit more, but with all the other scenes it was kind of rushed a bit, but got the point across.
Yes, I really needed the FULL scene between Rand and Tam. That deserved longer than 10 seconds.
I'm interested about Fain too. I'm wondering if they will give him a role in the finale here that he didn't have in the book. I wouldn't hate that since he's an antagonist through so much of the books. Giving him a bigger role wouldn't hurt (although hopefully it won't replace the foresaken. We need some real fear in the show)
In the books Matt doesn't do much at the eye of the world anyway. So we miss his presence but not much else.
Very true; I think I"m just sad that Mat as seemingly got no screentime where we can see that he's an awesome person, and him staying behind like that just supports this darker version of him.
This is probably my favorite episode of the season. Sure, it's not true to the books and various things have been dropped or made up, but as long as it makes sense in context of the show, I'm happy. Brandon Sanderson helped me enjoy the show when he mentioned that this could be a different turning of the wheel since these characters are bound to repeat history over and over.
Great job as always! I really enjoy your insight!
Thanks for watching!
@bookborn
You said at 5:45 that we know who the Dragon is in the books (if I understood you correctly), but as a reader fresh to the series, when they travel to the Blight and then to TEOTW, we do not know at that point.
We do suspect (and hope) that it is Rand, mostly because he is the character we've spent the lion's share of time with, but even in the book, it is literally the last sentence in The Eye Of The World that confirms that the Dragon Reborn is Rand.
The comment about the darkness within Matt comes directly from the book. I believe it's Siuan Sanche who makes the comment during the chapters where Mat has returned the the White Tower before he gets healed. She says that the dagger is feeding on darkness within Mat, or something to that effect.
Good point! I guess I always read that as sort of "the darkness in all of us" and not that Mat in particular was dark, you know? But...you're right, it's in the book.
If this episode had ended after the Aiel fight it would have still been close to better than the previous six episodes combined 😁. So good. Glad they finally got the who is the Dragon thing out of the way. I hope they use Rand summoning the void to focus like in the book, always thought that was a good way to describe focus in magic and fighting (he does it for channeling and sword fighting). Also it's like they put poor Loial in a closet after they got out of the Ways. You just never see him again, not even a, "I'm going to find the library, toodles."
It seems like the show is not very invested in Loial 😢 I'm hoping he comes back in the final episode for the show down at the blight...
Min mentions the "gold ring" when talking with Moiraine, so I was looking for it later, but as you noted it was rather conspicuously absent. Aside from that, I'm not big on the various romance subplots, but after episode 5 and 6 left me rather on the fence, this episode has me right back to feeling hyped. I'm also somewhat surprised they kept the "who is the Dragon Reborn" mystery going for so long, but answers it before it last episode, but maybe that works out so we'll see.
Yes, I was super surprised they answered this episode, but I"m glad because that gives me hope that the last episode will focus a lot on the EOTW and perhaps we'll finally get to see some proper villains in the Foresaken.
its ring they get when they become aes sedai.
@@TheBodybag81 The way I interpreted it, "white flame" was for Egwene and "ring of gold" was for Nynaeve.
@@xdavid00 id have to rewatch but i dont believe she seperated the two women, so both could apply to both the flame to say they will go to tar valon and the ring to say they will make it to full aes sedai although they may have messed that up by saying novices get the ring and the stone is added when they select their ajah
@@TheBodybag81 nope wrong ring there. that is a snake eating its tail ring for an Aes sedia not a gold band.
There a scene (still image) in the bonus content with Padan Fain holding an Avendesora leaf. Not sure why they cut it out from the episode.
I also liked this episode more than the others but again there were some scenes which were strange. For example when Lan was on guard during the dark ways, the sleeping Egwene heard the trolloc but Lan didn't. He is supposed to hear & see things much better than the others and btw sense the presence of dark creatures before anyone else. The scene with Min could be more impactful if it was random instead organized again by Moraine and I didn't picture her like 40 years old drinking bartender. Teenwolf love triangle and Nynaeve walk of shame were unnecessary.
I agree with all of this. Trying so hard to embrace WoT show, books were full of fluff and nonsense so I should be able to handle this right? I get they are going to promote what is already in the books but these little things have me quite concerned.
I have no issues with actress playing Min but if she is just the tough girl bartender we saw there she will definitely be let down for me. Needing her spunk and sassy personality and other traits that made her a special character.
I like your positive view on this episode! To me this is the first time I feel hope after an episode! The way they managed to stay (somewhat) true to the source material, while still taking creative liberties, is definitely acceptable in this episode! I don't demand 100% accuracy, but I do hope for and expect integrity and homage to Jordan's story!
100% agreed. I hope they can carry the same energy into the finale.
@@Bookborn this didn't age well. The kindled hop was just extinguished by a bucket of water, in episode 8.
I have to admit. I was skeptical about a comparison video between show and books as they are indeed so different but I think you presented it well. I agree with several of your thoughts too. I am enjoying the series overall but always feeling a bit let down at same time. Here's to amazing episode 8!
Other differences I might add... can Amalisa channel in Books? I don't remember that but I like the touch as it explains certain people being turned away because they were not powerful enough. Tbh, books do horrible job as they talk about how there are so many that can't make it to full aes sedai implying lots of channellers but you never see any til.... later lol.
Also Don't think Lan and Nynaeve kiss till a certain rescue. Big event... city in south. Don't want to say too much.
It's interesting to watch their "behind the scenes" video, where they discuss the various decisions they made in making episode 7 -- camera work, set design, direction, etc. Their use of the Bolt camera to film the opening is pretty cool. Notably absent from this, however, is any mention of the rationale for any decisions they made to deviate from the book: czcams.com/video/bsFgCC-G7PU/video.html I wonder when they will address this.
I do have one issue with the set design: All the stone in the series has looked fake-distractingly so. Other productions have been able to make their fake stone look natural, so I don't know why they haven't been able to achieve it here.
Ugh, the stone! When they first entered the Ways I thought “My gosh, did the just spray some styrofoam with plasti-dip and call it a day?!” The textures and shine did get better on the basalt pillars as they continued in the Ways, but oof. It totally pulled me out of the narrative.
It's very interesting because supposedly they had the largest budget of almost any show ever, so why do things often feel...a little cheap or overly CGI? I just don't get it.
@@Bookborn All the sets, and rooms. All look so fake. The fight scene with the Aiel, was obviously done indoors on a set.
The channel "Books and Bianca" does a great job analyzing and explaining why the shots look so fake and jarring. Most of it seems to be their lack of talent with lighting and cinematography. I highly recommend checking her out.
So...Padan Fain can channel now? Or, if he has a leaf to open the ways, then why does it take the One Power to open it too? This doesn't make any sense, just more poor writing.
Also, the Rand reveal as the DR was beyond anticlimactic! All that traipsing around just to have him go "Uh. Moiraine, it's me." Why the heck not do it like in the book? And yeah, I don't believe Rand will be the ONLY dragon until next EP, but we can hope. :)
I realize there is a non-zero chance that we will still have a split dragon soul, but for my sanity I'm pretending Rand is the dragon and I'm PRAYING IT STAYS
Ok, so...here's everyone's current working theory. In bonus content, apparently you can see Fain with an Avendesora leaf. SO, they are thinking because Mat left, for some reason they needed to refilm the scene. Maybe it's because they wanted it to be so they couldn't go back and get Mat - if they used the leaf, it would've been like, well...just open the door again.
I’m glad you liked it. The love triangle was really bad. Apart from that I really liked this episode. Aiel so bad ass.
One of the best Episodes yet IMO. Last Episode was HORRIBLE, this was more like Episode 2-4. There still might be hope! 👍
I'm feeling hope too after this one! It was so much more of the kind of changes I expected, while still keeping the heart. And that opening scene!
I didn't read the books and came here from the show. I didn't liked Rand's characther since episode 1, so now that we(who didn't read the books and only watched the series) know he's the dragon, is going to be a problem for me to keep watching it hahahaha Egwene and Perrin have a lot more chemistry than them. I will keep coming here to know the differences, thank you for these videos
I don't know how the story goes but in the series it looks like they're going with Egwene Aes Sedai and Perrin her Warder(maybe lover but i don't think so)
Yeah, that's one of the biggest bummers to me about the show. Since they wanted to keep the Dragon a secret, they gave Rand ZERO screen time. And I was worried people would feel exactly like you! Be super disappointed because he's been so boring in the show.
I had similar feelings about the show until this episode. I still don't know if I like this adaptation but I was waffling between dislike and no opinion of the show. I understand that the change of medium requires the story to be modified and things getting cut but the so far it had seemed like the modifications or changes took more away than they added. The characters mostly felt right but some of the things that appear to be being done with them felt wrong.
The beginning of this episode was the first time I was excited and felt joy with this adaptation and the first time a "change" (not really a change but a reference actually shown) was great in my opinion. The Ways seemed ok and I liked the whistling hint, though I'm not sure about the modified Black Wind, and I didn't mind how they added Min though it remains to be seen how that plays out.
A much better episode and it gives me hope that the series won't be completely terrible. My opinion of the show has now changed from waffling between dislike and no opinion to waffling between no opinion and hopeful.
Great review, keep up the good work.
You nailed it. The opening scene literally gave me chills. It has been my favorite scene so far - the perfect blend of "technically not in the books but feels exactly right"
Bonus content in the X-ray had Fain walking out of the waygate with a Leaf.
Shame they cut that. I believe it was a ripple effect from Barney leaving. Good to see that it confirms the way from the books will be in the show.
Other than the love triangle, this episode was great imo. Bloodsnow was cool to see and of course the Rand reveal.
I thought the original EoTW ending was pretty bad. With what they set up these past 3 episodes it has the potential to be better than the books. Hopefully they land it. This episode gives me hope.
Do better than the books now I know you're just a fake fan
Man you show Fanatics are just pathetic
@@Freedomlover123USA lol. Not only a freedom lover, but a gatekeeper. ‘MERICA
@@Freedomlover123USA stfu gatekeeper
Eye of the World is the weakest book. Its the one I skip on all my rereads. The end of it was always kinda boring compared to fall the rest. The show isnt great, but yeah, if they can improve on the ending, more power to them
@@fy4b230 You're dumb enough to think that the TV shows better than the books and doing better than the books
You are literally insane and have No opinion worth listening to
I agree with you, if they're going to do a love triangle they must commit to it, develop it over a few seasons, and have it lead to catastrophe like Arthur, Launcelot, and Guinevere.
Finally felt like I was mostly watching a WoT show!!!!
YES!! Different but still the feel of the books. Finally!
Always knew Tigraine was a badass but hoooooly sh*t all’s that cold open was AMAZING.
YES IT WAS SO PERFECT. Honestly, my favorite scene in the show so far probably. It showed the Aiel perfectly and was so dramatic.
I do have to say, the extra stuff with Nynaeve and Lan is so much better in the show than the books. Their romance came out of nowhere in the books and it was one of my least favorite arcs.
I completely agree. You actually get to see them being drawn together instead of it being BAM WE ARE IN LOVE.
Interesting I found the Moraine Tom relationship that way……
@@Bookborn I have two problems with this. 1. It should have taken them longer to get together. Season one is too early for this to happen unless they are forced apart after this. 2. Nyneave would NEVER sleep with Lan while he is still bonded to Moiraine. That's just part of who she is and how she feels about the bond.
It felt so cheap and sloppy. Just slapped together. The episode should have been called "everyone bangs".
Didn't like it quite as much as episodes 2, 3, and 4. Better than the other ones. The opening was awesome. The Ways, Machin Shin, and Loial deserved better. Lan, Moiraine, Nynaeve scenes good. Other scenes, not so good--love triangle confrontation was cringe. I miss Mat. Don't mind the ending, they kind of had to do it this way with the whole "everyone but the Dragon will die" thing that they really didn't need to do to begin with. For what happens with him in it, Rand storyline felt rushed in this one and had to laugh at how they just sort of plopped the epiphany on him after he had sex and it was one of those "the clues were there the whole time" scenes, including a clue we really should have seen in the pilot. Not great long-form storytelling, but I enjoyed it.
I felt like Perrin was always drawn to the Way of the Leaf, but felt the need to be pragmatic about violence. I thought that the Way of the Leaf was an ideal he wished he could live up to
Firstly I love your quick breakdown of the differences, it has got me to start reading the Series over for the fifth time (the first in over a decade)
I think the flashback scenes with Rand showing his perspective (and revealing he is the dragon reborn) were good, but the tempo was completely off.
If they had of placed them in the scene where he is missing the target, and each time he fires an arrow a scene plays, and then we see an arrow miss. It shows both his REASON for his secret struggle better, and allows the audience what has been sorely lacking the entire season.. A chance for something to impact and resonate.
Additionally they could have flashed back to the scene where he first meets Loial and let the audience see the prophecies Rand was reading - mention that the dragon was to be born on Dragonmount, it both introduces the known and published prophecy, and adds tension as it unfolds rather than gets blurted at you in overused exposition dump.
Same scenes, almost exact runtime, but with rhythm and heart.
But what do i know I'm just a cowboy 🤠
Nope, absolutely completely agree with you. It needed to be a longer scene. I mean, this is THE REVEAL. And I agree about the prophecy- it's one of my main complaints; they needed to say WHY that entire dragonmount scene was important, and I think they flew by it too quickly.
Wow, what a great suggestion. I was picturing the scenes as you described and I def think it adds a ton of character and mystery that the current reveal lacked a bit. Maybe even push it further by cutting the flashes at the first target practice short, like it's bothering Rand but he's pushing out of his mind. Then when he wakes up to them later it can have more impact as we've seen it build. It also gives more depth to his chat with Egwene when he promises to go to the white tower with her. I don't think we needed it to be more drawn out though, it's at the end of the show and they're trying to up the pace going into ep 8. Do I miss the prophecies? Yeah, but I won't be bothered if they out that in later down the road along with the other ones. Give us a full scene with that instead of in a flashback.
I loved seeing Tam And Shaiel on the mountain. But please raise your veil far dareis mai
Like everything but Lan this episode, didn’t like his lie that he had nothing before Moraine came along, didn’t like how he’s so open emotionally with everyone and every situation (except the family he eats with, since that makes sense), hated how fast he and nyneave have moved.
It’s been a month of off and on meeting and they’re already doing the deed, the guy who is wed to his fight against the shadow and plans to die retaking his homeland when his service to moraine is up, that guy is dtf... duty is lighter than a feather or something or other.
Although I mostly like all the additions to Lan and Nynaeve's relationship in the show, I do agree it's weird that they slept together. It seems that "adult shows" always have to have "adult" relationships...as if some relationship couldn't develop without that. Indeed, the book makes more sense on that front because they both feel like they have duties they can't shirk.
Just curious how Padan Fain opened the ways?
What happened to Loial? I don't remeber seeing him in the city.
Great review of the show even if I am not a fan of the show itself.
Fain is not quite himself, his body is just a sleeve for a member of the forsaken, who used to be Aes Sedai
@@DeclanOReilly thanks I thought he was just a dark friend
So, apparently in some bonus material, Fain had an Avendesora! so...maybe they had written it out because of the Mat debacle? IDK.
And also, yeah, I have no idea why they keep ignoring Loial.
Totally agree with your dislike about this forced love triangle!
Let's hope that they drop it....
I have a problem with the Waygates. And it is a problem that coincides with how they've used/abused Loial as a character in the show. The Waygates, and the Great Cities of course, are from the Ogier. The depiction of plant life, greenery, as well as the way the Great cities were constructed by Ogier stoneworkers just isn't given any time, and that's a major shame. It also plays into how they have gotten Fal Dara wrong, from the setting change, to the fact that it 'has never fallen'. One of the major themes was that it had, and that it had to be rebuilt, and Loial laments the loss, but starts to see the little touches that the people who remade the once great City tried to impart in legacy and remembrance to the original builders, and that the Ogier had made an impact, in a legacy sense, to these people.
omg, Greendalke Human Beings shirt, lol; Community was the best show :)
I'm generally okay with what they're doing (or trying to do) in this first season; they had some budget, but not infinite budget, and they had a harsh timeline.. 8 episodes seemed really tight, so its all fast moving, and skipping so much.. while also trying to draw some material or ideas from future books, where they feel it will help, or also plant breadcrumbs; its ambitious, but so far I feel like the showrunners have a pretty good head on; the execution doesn't always work, and its uneven, ... the pacing is rapid (skipping a lot), but yet slow sometimes .... but broadly speaking, it seema rlgit, and I'm enjoying most of it.. can't wait for the next ep.
The real q is.. how much does average non-reader enjoy it?
Community is my favorite show of all time. Still waiting. #sixseasonsandamovie
From what I've heard from my friends who haven't read it, they are all enjoying it. Which is...pretty much all the showrunners care about, right? Some book readers like to pretend we matter, but truthfully, they probably are trying not to alienate us but we just AREN'T a money-making audience.
I keep trying but honestly I'm done. I think it hits me differently because I literally just read the whole series this year and everything is so fresh for me. I see every character change. Every detail they leave out about the journey and the path they take. The lore is so switched up. Nothing is right. I can only imagine how bad it's gonna get. I watched HBO mess up the last 2 seasons of GOT. Not gonna watch it hear. It is what it is though. Maybe I'll just go read the books again haha
lol I've totally watched a bad adaptation before and been like... ok time to go read the books. I'm going to give this season the last episode before I decide if I'm going to quit on it or not. There's...a chance, right??? lol
The opening scene was pretty bad ass, but I think the end of that scene with the birth totally got the aeil female warrior wrong. First, Tam doesn't help the birthing, he finds the baby already born and starting to freeze. Secondly, it diminishes the mom's (and aeil maidens in general) that they would seek assistance during birth. Instead of taking Tam's hand, she should have shoved a spear into him.
I am a reader, a slightly obsessed reader- but got to say i loved this episode despite (like you ) not liking the perrin/egwene scene. Winternight flashback, the blood snow, and everything to do with Lan and the way the borderlanders interacted with him worked for me. Apparently they deleted a scene showing fain using a trefoil leaf to open the waygate- not sure why they cut that.
Yay, I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling that way! The bloodsnow was just...EPIC.
Someone is theorizing that perhaps they had to cut Moiraine using the avendesora because of the Mat debacle? Because in the book she does channel to get out when they are chased by the black wind...I don't know, it's interesting.
@@Bookborn Yes i think they changed the waygate scene to explain why they couldnt just open the gate back up and fetch mat. It felt clunky to be honest, but i dont know what else they could have done to make it smoother given the situation. I have a feeling we will get more time with rand next episode and i cannot wait i have to say.
@@tw7998 Completely agree and I'm stoked too!
From what I understand they aged up the characters to stay away from YA drama, and they insert it in. Who is Perrin? Hes a vegan wolf now?
Very CW
A vegan wolf 💀
As a huge fan of the books and someone who has been very disappointed so far I would have to agree that this episode captured the spirit of the books. I’m cautiously optimistic moving forward but overall it still seems mostly like fan fiction to me.
"cautiously optimistic" is exactly how Im feeling. I'm actually a little anxious for the last episode which is so stupid lol
Ok that was a better episode from the last 2... it may be mean but I hope they never use the director of the last 2 ever again.... my one gripe was the love triangle, ugh they aged the characters up just to make them kids again, and now perrin seems like an ash hole.. he married laila out of spite... and the scene just brought Dawson crying meme to my mind...oh wait the other gripe, we can't use the power in the ways, then how are you even going to leave? Come on writers how much would an Avendesora leaf CGI have cost vs moraine channeling to open the ways... They could have had that when they were in the ways the leaf to exit the tar valon gate was missing so they couldn't go back for mat lest they call the winds on them by forcing the gates open with the power... #solvingWritingIssuesFreeHereRafe
OK so...here's the new absolutely unsubstantiated theory about the way gates. Apparently in bonus content, you can see Fain holding the Avendesora leaf. They are wondering if originally Moiraine opened the ways with the leaf but it had to get scrapped because of Mat leaving. 🤔