S2: Wheel of Time show vs book: all the differences (E6)
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2024
- Today we look at episode six of season 2 of the Amazon Prime show Wheel of Time and how it compares with the book, The Great Hunt by Robert Jordan. Did I skip any differences you wanted to talk about? Tell me about it in the comments below!
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
00:40 - Plot changes
05:56 - My opinion on the changes
Other episodes
Episode 1: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
Episode 2: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
Episode 3: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
Episode 4: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
Episode 5: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
Episode 6: • S2: Wheel of Time show...
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Instagram: / bookborn.reviews - Zábava
I'm sure its been said but they do call the damane housing kinnels in the books.
They do?? I literally have no memory of that 🤣🤣 my bad
@@Bookbornyes
Yep, that’s why I came on to comment too 😅
Also, Liandrin definitely breaks 2 oaths in front of Nyneave 😊
@@Bookborn yeah they call em the kennels but they're also like a boarding house accomodation though.
I feel like this episode did a PHENOMENAL job when it comes to Egwene being collared, it was so disturbing in the books and the actress translated that brilliantly on screen.
I felt it, and the actress playing renna managed to make me hate her as well. I think given they cant do inner monologues on TV they did a really good job with the damane in particular. I am liking lanfear as well to be honest. Still not a fan of show Lan however.
I think the actress did very well! The scenes were so emotional and visceral
@@tw7998 when she is so happy they finally connected with Egwene on burning the tree, that was just awful and great at the same time
@@csarmii yep i agree. I think they did a really good job of showing how the Damane are dehumanised.
@@csarmii btw did you notice she made Egwene burn the thing that gave her comfort?. Watched this episode with my non-reader wife and she cried so i guess it worked for non readers based on my tiny sample size :)
I liked how Ryma used the power to break bones/blind the suldam. it seems much more like something a yellow sister would do to attack, rather than throw a fireball
Yeah that was cool! I'm a little ehh on how she does it AFTER they kill her Warder; since Aes Sedai can only harm in self-defense, it felt a little vengeful (although it could def be argued itw as in self defense of herself)
@@BookbornI don't think we're going to get Semirhage, so using healing as a weapon can only happen this way.
@@Bookborn Well, when a warder is killed the Aes Sedai feel it. They feel it to their core and you could very much say that since Ryma was begging him to kill her against all of his own oaths and beliefs she likely snapped, and well, snapped that b!tch into a human pretzel 🤣.
Overall, the scenes with Egwene in this episode were pretty darn good. The actress killed it, both of them honestly. The scenes with Lanfear were a bit more like Lanfear, though still not quite right. She still would have been MEGA PISSED when she told Rand he could see anyone he wished and he wished to see ANOTHER WOMAN!!!!!!! And the whole scene with (not) Liandrin was just pointless because that character is pointless.
Oh the other side, they are still utterly assassinating Mat and Min. Every single thing they did with Lan in this episode was utter trash. He would have died without question before he betrayed Moraine like that. Just... as much as they have been assassinating Mat and Min it has been 3x as bad for Lan.
Overall, they really aught to just rename the show to the Wheel of Crime because the writing of the show is just downright criminal. So bloody awful and disrespectful to the source material.
Why was Mat asking about Egwene to Rand ? He was just at the white tower. Where he saw Egwene leaves her crying alone.
ok great point thank u I will be adding it to my list of inconsistencies.
I’m so glad someone else caught that! It totally pulled me out of the moment.
I mean - since he last saw egwene - Nynaeve has returned from the arches, she’s travelled the ways to falme and is now a captive.
It’s possible (in his mind) that Rand is in contact with her (letters/etc) and/or she might have moved - I think we can assume that Mat/Min aren’t travelling at the fastest pace….
@@wotsummary302It makes me wonder if the writing from episodes 1-4 had to get rewritten due to scheduling and that initially we don’t meet up with Mat until that scene where he hasn’t seen anyone
one more thing where is Thom merrilin?
I still think Moiraine is shielded, she just can't see the weaves Ishamael tied off so she believes she's been stilled. Stilling her would be a really bad decision in large part because of a pretty cool moment at the end of book 3 that we've waited years to see.
I haven't enjoyed this adaptation very much so far but I thought this episode was very strong. Egwene's actress specifically was terrific.
Also considering how fast and loose they've been playing with establishing rules in the past it's possible that they don't know the difference between stilling an shielding, or if they do know they don't care.
If she is stilled, then it makes previous dialogue even worse. She told Lan that if he didn't leave she would pass her the bind over, but if she is stilled the the bond IS broken. They are playing very loose with the magic system and it hurts.
The Egweyne damane stuff was done really well though. Amazing how much better scenes work when they stick closer to the source material.
The fact stilling is a terrible decision should be an indicator that she is stilled. The people making the show love making terrible decisions. In all cases her being shielded isn’t much better as it has been clunky and inconsistent as all hell, not to mention nothing has been done to establish tied off and inverted weaves.
I disagree, Egwene’s actress is the worst actor of the main cast, beating out even Perrin.
That scene where Suian made the knives around her head was so cool to look at.
A crown of swords!!!! Epic display of the one power
I have to pause. Moraine BELIEVES she was shielded. You can't win that easily :P
Lol I may yet still have to eat my words 🤣
Thank you for being a consistent objective source of review for this show! I find so many reviews that are either scathing and hate everything about it, or are bending over backwards to justify all show decisions. Your show is where I come to hear a level-headed, honest take- keep doing what you're doing! Thank you
1. Yes, I thought Tam might be who Rand would really want to see, but I knew he was going to see Egwene in the show because that's how they will bring Rand to Falme.
2. As for Lanfear, her appearance in black meant that we will likely not have Semirhage because remember this: Semirhage always wear black because Lanfear always wear white.
3. The Moiraine scenes... totally unnecessary and does not advance the plot.
4. The relationship of Suldum and Damane is really more like humans and pets, but in this show.... can't figure out. Like a master and slave?
5. I kinda think that the actress playing Liandrin really did a good job with this non-book version of Liandrin, especially the scene with her son and Lanfear.
6 Since you mentioned Logain, yeah... think we are losing Asmodean too.
Yeah Kate Fleetwood is a name I won't forget now, she really is an incredible actress, even though they changed up Liandrin so much in the show.
First, I was worried you were going to stop watching after comments you made on earlier episodes so super happy you’re continuing with your content. For context, I started reading the books in 1993 then rereading them in like 2003 but stopped in book 6, when Robert Jordan died. . Something I’m super confused about, Min is hilarious in the books, and she’s just annoying in the show. They’re making Moiraine and Lan just not appealing at all which is wrong. They totally screwed up by making Mat the sour individual in the beginning when he was not that way at all and why give him a horrible upbringing in the backstory? He had a loving family. It just makes no sense.
I find it funny that while watching your videos about the differences between a series and the books, every time I see the actress who played Cho in the Harry Potter movies, all I can think about was how they done her character dirty by making her the one who betrayed Harry and Dumbledore’s Army when it wasn’t her in the books at all.
Much kudos to you for these videos. I really enjoy them.
The actress playing Egwene was amazing in last night's episode. And I agree that Rand still feels like the least developed character, even after 14 episodes.
You're telling me! By the end of the episode, I was thinking to myself "wow, that actress is amazing!" and started imagining what it was like on set. She really sold the suffering of that situation.
Who? OH, you mean BLAND! Yeah, he's just a minor side character.
Rand is underdeveloped, but no way is he less underdeveloped than Mat. At this point they should probably just kill Mat off, because he is a non-entity in the story so far and it’s painfully obvious the writers don’t care about him or giving him any of his book plot beats (having him blow the horn in the S2 finale doesn’t make up for him barely being in the show for most of 2 seasons).
It’s ridiculous that characters like Liandrin have fully fleshed out character arcs, with complex motivations, choices, and plenty of agency, whilst the 3 Ta’veren boys are just led from place to place like extras being told where to stand in each scene by other characters. Even in the scenes they’re in, they are usually passive, there for other characters to talk at and provide exposition.
It’s very obvious that the writers wanted to write a story about the White Tower and the Aes Sedai, and saw the 3 boys as a nuisance. They can’t write them completely out of the story, so they give them as little as possible to tick off the box so they can get back to the characters they really care about.
At least Rand has Lanfear after him - the writers love Lanfear, and by having her pursue Rand he at least gets screen time, even if he still lacks agency. Mat has no such luck.
@@ThumbMerrilinIn the case of Mat, I can cut them so slack because of the casting change. And at least he has personality, unlike Rand.
I feel like the bad guys are interesting and the good guys can be put in one or more categories of: rude, moody or boring. And the story is moving at a snails pace.
Yeah, I wonder if the writers didn't realize that giving good guys flaws is what makes them interesting haha. "rude" and "moody" aren't interesting flaws haha! Whereas Liandrian and Lanfear both have compelling backstories that make their actions make sense, making them so much more interesting.
@@Bookborn I feel like they forgot to give the good guys anything worth cheering for. Why do I care if any of the girls become great channelers? Why do I care that Rand is scared of being the dragon reborn? Why do I care that Perrin can communicate with wolves? Why do I care about Matt doing… nothing? And Moraine? Why would I cheer for her to accomplish anything when the entire time she’s just been cold hearted and rude to everyone?
There’s just nothing to love about the good guys. No balance to their flaws on the positive side aside from ‘I do t want my friends to die or the world to break’ and that’s just not enough.
@@LadyDisdain3 big agree
Brandon Sanderson said she was stilled when he watched the episode. Of all people I trusted him.
Moraine can still see weaves like in episode 1 or 2 when Verin saved her and Lan. So she is shielded, but it's a male weaved shield. That's why she can't see it but still see the weaves.
I still think she’s shielded. Ishamael clearly tied a knot in his hand and a sort of “net” was placed on Moiraine. In the books, if I remember correctly, stilling is associated with severing/cutting motions or “feelings”. I think she *thinks* she is stilled and with that I have a big problem, because she should know the difference. However, if she is indeed stilled (and we should have a definitive answer sooner or later, I doubt they’ll keep Moiraine Powerless for the rest of the series), then I have an even bigger problem with that, because to me it means the writers have no idea how shielding and stilling work in the books.
My biggest stuff even now(super late) is how Lan is acting if the bond was severed. They do mask in the books.
I really didn’t think they would do the Egwene stuff. It’s been the best part of the series so far because it’s the closest they’ve come to doing any real major character development from the source material.
The rest of this season is basically just tossed together in a bag of randomness though. It’s almost like Sanderson held them at gunpoint and told them they were absolutely not allowed to ruin this part.
If only he had the time and energy to do that with all his edits, more likely this was the one section they were like cool gags and torture. People will love this.
That is exactly how I feel. Don't hate and don't love. Feel like I'm watching because I have to as a big book fan.
You raise so many good points. Clearly the show runner(s) want to focus on Moraine so you'd think she's the main character not Rand. Rand hasn't gone through much development yet but at least we don't dislike him. Moraine is unnecessarily frustrating over everything which makes her unlikable. I should probably empathize with her being stilled but instead she seems like a jerk who got humbled. I almost feel like she deserves it. Matt is... Matt...
I actually like Rand, like a lot. And I'm not even sure if it's because the showrunners did a good job intentionally or not.
Even though they haven't given him as much screen time as book readers say he should have (I'm show-only, sorry!), they've at least given enough & dropped enough mysteries around him, the One Power, male channelers (and their inevitable downfalls), the power of the Dragon Reborn, and his heritage that whenever he IS on screen, I'm fascinated.
He's also never been obxnoious, rude or annoying like some of the other characters (Moiraine, Nyneave, Mat, etc.), and he's always seemed like he's trying to be a good person. I have never found myself bored or uninterested when Rand has shown up this season, even if he's just wandering around town.
I feel like I'm forgetting something from S1, but I don't understand why a small army of Aes Sedai & Warders needed to abruptly show up & detain him at the end of the episode though... Seems like a great way to make him your direct enemy. So hopefully this is going somewhere that doesn't result in a huge character turn for no reason, but otherwise I really like Rand.
@@corey2232 Mat is starved for scene time and dialogue, but that is not the problem with Rand, who has plenty of scene time. The problem is that Rand (and Mat, and Perrin) are treated like extras in every scene. The other characters (Moiraine, Lanfear, Liandrin etc) in their scenes talk at them, lead them about, and make most of the decisions. The boys are just there. They lack main character agency.
@ThumbMerrilin But why wouldn't Lanfear, Moiraine & Liandrin be leading people around and taking charge? They're the knowledgeable, much more experienced ones. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egweyne, etc are the naive, young, and ignorant ones.
They're ALL being lead around and dictated to at this point. Perrin is being lead around by wolf man, Nyneave is being lead around by Liandrin, everyone leads around & Egweyne around (especially now), Ishamael leads Min to lead Mat around, etc etc etc
The 4 Rivers people are all a part of everyone's schemes.
But yeah, I can see how book readers might find this unappealing if they're used to something different. I haven't read the books, but it makes sense to me in the context of the show
@@corey2232
"Even though they haven't given him as much screen time as book readers say he should have (I'm show-only, sorry!)"
I would suggest that you owe it to yourself to go through the books, if only to appreciate Rand and Mat's _amazing_ character arcs.
Rand as a country bumpkin who would rather live out his life on his farm, to finding out that he is The Dragon Reborn, attempting to run from that truth, failing, and when he finally accepts it, he *_accepts_* it, and slowly turns into a world-conqueror, a King of Queens/Kings, if you will, trying to unify a world where each nation, queen/king/noble is seemingly just trying to look out for their own selfish ends, all in preparation for a world united and prepared for The Last Battle, hoping that he does not go mad before then ( _although he's already accepted that he is going to die_ ), always with a desperation that time is running out for him.
I won't go into details, but Mat's story is even more amazing and fun to read.
_This_ is what the show refuses to let you see, instead giving all the interesting developments and action sequences from Rand and Mat to the ladies of the show.
For example, S1E8 - in the book that is Rand all the way, and that is _consistent_ with the lore of the world. If untrained women with comparatively middling power could just defeat all those Trollocs and Myrdraal, there is no need for The Dragon Reborn. In the book, he uses lightning, fire and earthquakes to destroy them, before temporarily tripping up Ba'lzammon (Ishamael) and killing Aginor. NONE of that is given to him in the show. Instead he's there to look pretty and "discover that he's the dragonreborn". In the books, that power that he discovers suddenly is more of a remembering, as you gradually find that he is sorta-possessed/remembers his past life as Lews Therin at times, and is able to draw upon that well of experience in moments of stress. That possession also becomes the nature of his insanity, described similar to Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personality - two, one of Rand and one of Lews Therin).
And the Forsaken in the books, they are very, very powerful. They do do everyday ordinary things in the books as well, but the Aes Sedai of the books are absolutely no match for them ( _other than Nynaeve who goes toe-to-toe against one of the weakest of the Forsaken - Moghedien - when they are caught off-guard and succeeds, and Moirane who kills Be'lal with balefire when he is occupied with Rand_ ), but it takes 4-5 books before the Forsaken start getting scared of Rand.
Once again I largely agree with your thoughts and I love that you have both praise and critique for the show.
One thing you touched on with the travel times but felt very weird to me this episode is also that I don't think the timelines match up? Like the way it was shot, it almost looked like Lan found Siuan and they all got to Cairhien in the time it took Moiriane to write a letter. It came up earlier to with it being super unclear how long Rand had been with Selene. It's just another issue with making everyone so split up like this.
Yea I'd be interested to see if it's possible to make the timeline make sense for the season. It does sound to me like Lan's storyline was put behind the rest intentionally, then we caight up with them.
Completely agree. People are where they need to be when they need to be regardless of what is happening. I think it makes the world feel smaller. It’s not a huge problem, but just something I continually notice. I wonder if that’s something that just sticks out as a book reader though.
@@Bookborn I'm also wondering if that's something we can't really expect shows to do (be precisely or consistent about).
I never found Moiraine likeable in the books so I feel they are doing a good job with her. She is willing to do anything to complete her mission no matter who it hurts and she is outright mean in many parts of the book. I also think none of this would work if Lan were around so I'm glad he is somewhere else even if the story they gave him to keep him busy isn't working the best.
I don't think you can take a win on the stilled thing yet. Moiraine doesn't know what has been done to her. I think the jury is out until they fix it which I assume they will eventually.
See my issue is that I wouldn't mind if she was this rude if she was *accomplishing* anything, but I really can't figure out what she's done this season to help anything 🥲
@@Bookbornit was weird Moiraine "killed" Lanfir and pisses her off, putting a target on their backs.
But in the same evening she says: she loves you Rhand try to play her.
For the most part, I've found many of the issues I've had with this season (which is still exponentially better than season 1) stem from choices made to characters in season 1. Also, I sort of remember that until book like 3 or 4, Rand was largely unwilling to try and embrace his powers, especially in The Great Hunt, prior to the second use of the portal stone and the big climactic battle, because he was still afraid to accept who he was. It wasn't really until he got to Tear that he began to really embrace using the power by choice, if memory serves
i think in book 2, rand is like "no i am not the dragon reborn, but i do need to find the horn and the dagger to save matt", then after the battle he is like "hmph. still doesn't mean i am actually the dragon reborn", then in book 3 he decides to see if he can fulfil any prophecies if he IS the dragon reborn, and at the end of book 3 he's like "fine, i am the dragon reborn", lol.
Ok HARD agree on your first part. Season 2 is much better, but yes, still suffering from decisions that were made in season 1 (and dare I say...almost exclusively decisions made in episode 8 of season 1).
@@Bookborn I think the issues go a little beyond episode 8. Some of them stem from choices made from the very beginning, like how they portrayed characters (especially Moiraine and Mat, or giving Perrin a wife and tweaking his motivations and personality in that regard). Some was necessary, since we aren’t in characters’ heads, and aging them up wasn’t inherently wrong, but, I think the way they did that removed some of the innocence and naïveté of the Emond’s Field group, which forced them now to act in ways that make sense in light of those changes.
That said, having flaws doesn’t mean it’s not really enjoyable. Honestly, if season 1 had been close to this good, I think this would be a series being super hyped already
An excellent review, as usual, and a very based statement about people wanting to draw lines in the sand about the show. As a book reader, I stand with you. As an adapation, some things are improved. Others, not that much. As a standalone, the show still suffers from lack of spatial and time continuity. Dialogues often progress unnaturally, for exposition sake.
But overall, for the first time in this show, there's more that worked for me than didn't.
Don't give in to the absolutists. You don't have to pick a side.
As a book reader, I am flabbergasted that the show has departed so much from the books. None of the characters look or act like they do in the books. It just doesn't seem that Rafe Judkins has any fidelity to Jordan's source material. I think ideology has given Rafe license to reimagine Jordan's whole world. The further we get in the show, the farther from Jordan's vision we get. It very similar to the Witcher books and the show. I admit now that I hate watch the show.
@@rodseel4545 fair enough. Taste cannot be mandated. I agree that personalities don't match the books. I don't know what that means for the long run, but you either agree to let the show live its life (another turning and all that) and you appreciate the story they give you... or you don't. "Different from the books" is not enough of an indictment in my eyes. As long as the new version is also good TV. I believe this episode is a step in the right direction.
That is a fair statement.@@bidossessi
The show seems like a show about the ladies - Aes Sedai, Laindrin, Egwene, etc...and that's disappointing. Rand's arc in this series is amazing, and he seems to be getting lost. Let alone Matt (as you said). I don't like teenage spoiled brat Moiraine either - she was always curt and focused, but was never. "hey, I'm older so you listen to me". Lan's plot sucks. All that being said, the acting, the Seanchen...theyve all been great. I think it was really strong episode....I just think so much of the story has been backburnered....so I'm hoping for some wrapping up in the next two episodes.
Maybe it’s because I read the books as a teenager, but to me I feel like I had a lot of the same feelings to book moraine as I did in the show. I have sympathy but also frustration. She never explained things. She was (rightfully) bossy, but often times other characters didn’t comprehend that so it DID come off as rude to them. I think we as readers just had the advantage of knowing she was right/about the dragon reborn/it being the end of the world, and other characters didn’t do we knew she was a good person. I think seeing it in the show just just taking it a step out of the immersion a bit, but to me this is how I felt reading it 100%
But see, that's why I think the show is failing, because they haven't shown that Moiraine is right (yet). She hasn't really been right about anything or helped them through much, especially this season lol. So if she was rude but ALSO right and accomplishing things, I think it would make her a lot more sympathetic in the show.
@@BookbornShe quite literally saved their lives. The show assumes we've all read the books so it does not spend much time explaining anything. That's one of the biggest issues I see in it. However, in Moraine's case I do agree with the original comment.
These are always really well done. Thanks as always for this.
Best episode in the series by far. Each decision and words spoken have weight behind them. I finally felt the need to pay attention and look forward to next episode.
Moiraine is the character you love to hate or be annoyed with, including in the books until... you don't. Jordan was so good about making you feel a way about someone, and then things would happen later that might change your mind. One thing Jordan was a master of doing was leaving in the story various misunderstandings of people or things that are not corrected, and finding out the truth is a truly rare gem. Those moments in the book where truth comes out are very special and pointed when they happen, and can drastically change perspectives on certain things. Not sure if the show will try to mimic that style or if what we see is what we get.
I would just like to say I really enjoy listening to your opinions and have gotta say that I also feel they are pretty much spot on especially when talking about the contrasts and development.
Thank you.
This epsiode and the last have been much improved and featured some great performances. They've handled egwenes story really well so far. That said, and i know im just being selfish here, please give rand some character development! They can clearly do it, we've seen it with Ny, Egwene, Morraine, Lanfear etc so give our boys some love as well.
It's the biggest flaw in Season 2, imo. Once again, it futhers my idea that they should've just made the show about the tower, because those are the things they are doing well. The issue is that without developing Rand, I feel like they aren't able to get into the crux of the actual *plot*. Do non-book readers know where the show is going? I sometimes feel like Season 2 is a collection of very good scenes but aren't building to a *whole* yet. However, I think episode 7/8 could really change my mind on that if they stick the landing.
@@Bookbornare you planning to have a non-book reader guest to discuss like you did season 1?
@@Bookborn agree, I've been watching with my gf who's a non book reader and she doesn't really understand the bigger picture, can't describe how the power works, struggles with how rand is the key to everything etc etc. I agree, 7/8 could bring it all back round but I'd still argue Rand's arc has been strangely neglected.
Only women get character development in Amazon Prime fantasy 😉
Do non book readers know where the show is going? Good question. So Im watching the show with my wife. I have read the books through path of daggers, though it was a long time ago. My wife hasnt. When we watch the show, I have to pause every few minutes because she has to ask me questions about "who is this person" or "what does this mean" or "where is this"? Etc. So in my very limited, anecdotal experience: non book readers dont have a clue what's going on, and book readers it's mostly just about figuring out what they have changed. Nothing in the show is explained well enough to be understood if you dont have context from reading at least some of the books. I really think they are just writing a show with a marketing strategy of annoying everyone. @@Bookborn
Thank you for making these videos, there full of info and a refreshing change of pace from all the hate. Great job!
One of the most Iconic lines is "Aes Sadai I remember every word", 'you shall be equals'
Same feeling, this was at least more intriguing & vaguely familiar like the opening scene w/ lanfear & rand...
The consistently worst parts of both seasons are the new stuff they written for Moiraine and Lan, and that's worrying
This show needed an opening like the LOTR movies. An expository look into what happened with the Age of Legends, discovering the Bore and the War of Power/the Breaking. I think it would have been a great place to showcase some really cool scenes with Age of Legends tech and show a glimpse of Ishamael and Lanfear as Dreadlords leading armies. Then when they are revealed, viewers will have an understanding of their power and the stakes.
Season 2 is much better than season 1. The acting has never been at fault but I get a sense the writing is even improving. I'd be curious if this was due to the negative reaction that season 1 received. Either way I too am enjoying the show but you've said a few times it should have been called "The Tower" and most all disappointment about a more true book adaptation would have been that much more palatable. I read books 1-7 in straight succession 25 years ago and then stopped reading because either book 8 or 9 took so long to get released and by the time book 10 came out I had forgotten so much and determined to not reread until all books were published. I have yet to start, but in some ways I feel like a non book viewer simply because I have forgotten most, yet the core of the characters has been betrayed from what I do recall, perhaps not as badly with Egwene and Nynaeve but certainly Moiraine. Lan is a joke. He was my favourite character even though he never says too much. Rand Matt and Perrin's character arcs are almost criminal. And where is THOM!!? Far too much time and sap has been wasted on the Wader bond rubbish. Lanfear is being very well portrayed - even though its a dramatic narrative shift from source material, but the pure wicked conniving nature of Lanfear is very well done though. I've approached this season as a non book reading given that I have forgotten what I read and I can say that the enjoyment is much greater as well as the production, pacing and story telling is an improvement. At this rate, season 5 will be very good.
I'm most of the way through The Great Hunt and i think Moraine has been pretty frustrating so far.
No she's not as rude, but her secrecy is causing everyone problems
The scenes with Selene would be really confusing if I didn't already know she was Lanfear😂
She must seem really crazy if you don't know she thinks of Rand as the same person as Lews
I finally caved and did what i swore I'd never do... i started the books again. Just to wash the taste of the show out of my mouth, so to speak.
I'd forgotten how long the initial pov stays with Rand. There really is never any question that he's the main character, even after umptyjillion other povs are introduced.
I also forgot how talkative Lan is, he's not at all as taciturn as i recalled. Stern, yes, but hardly laconic.
There’s a channel I really like of non-readers, Tori Talks TV. They discuss their feelings about the show and I think it’s a great temp check on how nonreaders are feeling. 😊
I think people just need to understand its not an adaption, its an intrepretation of the books. I saw a behind the scenes where some of the people working on the show even said that. So, with that understanding the show has to stand on its own merits. When they change things from the books, they will be judged on those changes. Were they necessary? Did they help the story? Did they help the non-book reader understand something? I agree with you Bookborn, I really meh overall. I thought season 1 was a total mess, this season is better in most ways. I really hated the actress for Lanfear at first, she doesnt look at all the way I imagined her (no offense to the actress), but I am growing to look forward to seeing her next scene. The villians are way more interesting than the 3 male supposed to be main characters. Rand is the Dragon Reborn and while the actor I think is giving his all with that he is given, he is doing almost nothing. No growth at all and if they are merging more than one book here, where is his development? I hated Moriane is season 1, oh wait yep don't like her still. I would have really enjoying seeing how he actually met Lanfear in this version, his relationship with her was intimate and yet supper shallow at the same time. Moriane murders her and he just is like, huh ok..yeah lets go. I mean, he had been with her for months if I am understanding their plot.
So, in your opinion are we leaning more towards 'inspired by RJ's WoT' or are we still calling this an adaptation? The last couple of episodes are completely not in the book, several plot lines aren't in the books, at least one of the episodes in Season 1 (the warder one) wasn't either , and multiple incidents in Season 1 weren't in the book either. I wonder what Harriet McDougal (Robert Jordan's wife who survived him) thinks at this point?
She is thinking about that sweet sweet cash I think.
@@chrispalmer3330 I could only wish amazon was paying me to do these, who can I contact? I'd love if someone paid me to say I thought their show was boring 🥲
I mean, supposedly Harriet signed off on Season 1; but we'll never know the extent of her involvement.
I mean, it clearly IS an adaptation, as it's taking all characters and events from the book. Whether it is a GOOD one or not will really depend on the reader. I think it is more than inspired by at this point, although I personally don't think they are doing a great job. They have individual scenes that are very good, but overall, I don't see where it's going. They haven't setup the overall plot enough, I think.
@@chrispalmer3330 Why are you even here if that's your mindset? 😑
@@Bookborn Wasn't Brandon Sanderson also involved with overseeing/consultation on a lot of S1? I think I saw he was back as some kind of consultant again on S2, but not sure to what extent
Haha, I admit I was one of those who wasn't fully convinced that Moraine was Stilled at first. Egwene was the highlight of this episode as I hoped she would be since this is one of her pivotal character arcs. Lanfear was another standout, though her costuming in black still bothers me which makes me think they might combine her with Semirhage which would be a disappointing omission with regards to the forsaken. Time will tell. I agree with every point you bring up about both Moraine and Mat and hope they fix this by the end of the season, they really need a Mat-centric episode to get audiences invested in him. Great wrap up! - Cheers!
that's so funny, I complained at length to my husband about her black costuming 🤣 I always worry I'll come off too particular in these, so I tend to leave that stuff out. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed 🤣
It weird, because I know you're right about needing a Mat-centric episode to get the audience invested in Mat, but as a show-only guy, I'd much rather watch anyone BUT Mat right now. I hate the idea of a Mat-centric episode just because of how little I care about him, but I also know that's the exact reason he probably needs one 😅
I think you're confusing the books here a little. Rand is super distrustful of Moiraine (and her manipulations) from the start of book two. Basically, Moiraine isn't there for him when he actually needs him (from the end of book 1 till the beginning of book two, she's just playing like she don't care, but keeps tabs on him and loistens in on his conversations - this is the point where she really drops the ball in their relationship), then starts manipulating him (pushing him to be a lord). And he thinks she's setting him up as a false dragon.
But it's true that they keep fighting at the start of book three as well, then he just takes off.
I hope this isn't very spoilery?
Right he’s distrustful after book one - but show Rand is mostly distrustful of moiraine from second one. There’s nowhere to go from that is all I’m saying
@@Bookborn I'm not sure I get your point. Book Rand is also distrustful of Moiraine from like where they meet really. Just based on her being an evil faery. After the Ferry, and then her tempting Egwene away to their wicked ways, then her threatening to kill him, the group trusts her not an inch. See dreams.
I am looking forward to the next episode more than before.
One more comment, just about your content - I'm actually really grateful you don't really hate the show or really love the show, and that you're very calm & collected in how you discuss each episode.
The way your present your opinions makes it much more digestable & informative, and there's no intent to artificially search for what you think the internet wants to hear. There's no super dramatic, overly hostile breakdown of how much the show sucks for not doing things a certain way, but there's also a mindfulness towards what doesn't work for you as an adaptation.
In the past, there were times I came away from an episode I really enjoyed (excited to see what other people thought), only to hop on CZcamsr & watch someone tell me how dumb I am for liking trash. With your videos, I at least feel like I'm learning something, becoming more aware of why certain things don't work for me, while also finding it interesting when there are things I like that book readers probably don't.
I watched the episode last night and loved it... I immediately went to CZcams to see your video on the differences and to get your opinion and it wasn't up yet! Lol... kidding, you do a great job with the channel. Side note - I've used a few of your recommendations you've made on your instagram page for kids fantasy for my 8 year old son. He's loved a few of them. Thanks!
It was an emotional rollercoaster for me too, i watched it twice!.
Haha I wait to put it up in the morning so more people will have had a chance to watch it!
I’m so glad your kid has liked the books ❤❤
Well said. The writing is better this season, but the characterizations are not. At this point Lanfear is more interesting than Moraine. I'm worried they are going for the Modern Everything Is Morally Gray theme. Where the protagonists and antagonists are essentially almost the same.
4:37 this is epic having already watched episode 7 lol
The Wheel of Time season 1 is what brought me to you last year. I find all of your content very interesting and engaging. I understand from your point of view as a reader of the books and your emotional attachment to the characters and that story. I have not read the books. I get it, I read all of the Anne Rice books and the shows and films will never live up to the world that I imagined. I do find the show very entertaining. I look forward to seeing the next episode every week. I don't disagree with your critiques of the show but since I don't really know all the backstory from the books on these characters, I don't find myself being disappointed by the way they are depicted. I find myself pulling for Egwene to break free somehow, for Rand to finally embrace and use the power I know he has, For Moiraine to somehow get her power back. I love the Lanfear actress. I thought this episode was very dark and sad seeing all the good characters end up defeated at the end of the episode. Hopefully, this is setting me up for a glorious triumph and redemption to come! I am resisting the temptation to "google" what happens in the future, LOL. Again, thank you for your channel!
I actually love hearing that it’s working for non book readers! I like hearing the perspective of what is working well without the extra book context!
many of us love the books. Imagine the person you love portrayed in a very negative light that does not match reality even. What emotions do you have? If one of them is not anger can you be said to even have love for that person? Well Rafe wrote a hate you letter to Robert Jordan. He changed the characters, not in minor details, but in who they are. He made them dark, they were innocents starting on a coming of age quest like Lord of the Rings. He changed the magic, the lore, the plot even, the locations, and pretty much everything good about the books. This is the show you as a non book reader watches. You are watching a hate you letter write large to the actual Author, Robert Jordan.
As I indicated in my reply, I understand the perspective of the book readers. The point of the video is to discuss the book vs. the show. I don't have the emotional attachment to the characters in the book. I am able to watch the show and judge it without that bias. Isn't that what we are talking about here? I am sorry that the show is ruining your experience from the books.
@@johnwatson3521I read the books, and can enjoy aspects of the show. Some of the scenes are amazing. I have to shut off my brain even from thinking about the books or the inconsistencies in the show, which I can do. If I try to think about it, so many holes just pop up.
@@johnwatson3521
" The point of the video is to discuss the book vs. the show"
In that case, Rafe Judkins's WoT series is an "adaptation" of Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time book series in the same sense that Quentin Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds is a documentary based on World War II.
That should summarize it quite nicely.
Totally agree with you on Tam rather than Egwain on who he'd want to see. It just seems like if he was sleeping with Lanfear, he totally gave up on Egwain as anything other than a friend...I'd expect him to want to see Perrin or Mat before Egwain. I thought shielding required constant flow of power whereas stilling was one and done, so I agreed with you that she was stilled and I'm left to wonder what Suian's storeline is going to be. I also think that travelling conventionally is way to easy and there's no reason to use The Ways which are sinister and dangerous.
Shields and other weaves can be tied off, this means you can eventually/possibly break through them. Her being stilled just creates so many issues with how Lan is alive to me. Releasing from the bond, or having it broken without giving it to another means Lan should have gone insane with rage before he got to her at the eye.
I 100% expected Rand to ask to see his dad first too.
I felt that the whole Egwene damane training/tourture was adapted from the book quite well.
I'm completely with you on neither loving nor hating the show. It looks great, the actors are giving good performances, some of the writing choices I like, some, not so much.
As always, thank you for these videos.
As a reader i am liking Moiraine more in the show than in the books, Moiraine in the books never explained anything and im sure robert jordan tried to make her mysterious and seem like she was always in control but to me it just resulted in her being a bland character. There was really no emotion attached to her and I just could not connect to her character at all.
So Morraine is stilled… Lan’s reaction to having his warder bond severed… but Moraine released his bond before she was stilled? I should probably just stop asking questions.
Why can’t Moraine lie? Why didn’t she lie to her sister when introducing Rand. She’s not an Aes Sedai if she’s stilled, and Alanna/Verrin should know.
This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. I’m disappointed it took them until the previous episode to get momentum; should have been this strong at the beginning and then only gotten better. In terms of the travel, as a non-book reader, I figure some timelines are a bit out of sync. So the convergence of a few at the end of the episode wasn’t something I questioned.
I agree that it took a long time to get into the rhythm which is disappointing. However, if they can end this season on a high note, I think that could spell good things for the future of the show.
I love that the Wheel of Time is getting a wider audience and maube some prompts and inspirations to reading the novels! 🎉 all we could hope for! Man, so who covers a New Spring?
Really hate all the Lan stuff in the show. The guy is an absolute legend in the books.
I love these novels with every fiber of my being. On the fence if I enjoy the show on the same level though. I'm glad they finally got the rights to do it. Very much obliged to you madame
I agree book Rand would have visited Tam. In addition, it was dumb to visit Eqwene. Dumb to reveal that to Lanfear and goes against his plan to trick her.
Please don't change. Like ever. You are the only CZcamsr that makes me feel like my opinion matters. That being said, I also find it weird that characters warp around. Like Lan's horse must have crazy legs to be able to run that fast. And Liandrin? Verin? The tower is not THAT close to Cairhein. I can look past this, but weird choice.
That sister of the blue ajah in the other cell was one more story arc they built and then forgot entirely
I just need them to actually call out: saidin and saidar..
It will make a lot more sense, because the Taint is not something that is in the channeler, but in the power.
I’ve been told so many times, “It’s in the extras.” Maybe the Aes Sedai are just that much stupider in this story, and the knowledge is lost(though they know about male channelers not going crazy in the Age of legends). It’s the only thing I can come up with.
Middling is a great description. This season is definitely better than season 1, but the bar was so low that that is hardly a compliment. I'm trying to enjoy even thought they've made too many changes, but the writing is far from good and there has been too many inconsistencies and plot holes.
Rand is really really boring. I think you hit the nail on the head with both him and Mat. They both seem like they haven't changed at all since the start. and Moiraine too. It just feels like far too much Moiraine now. I liked the episode for Lanfear and Liandrin, but wasn't as interesting as the last couple episodes.
Great points about contrast. I continue to be frustrated with both Matt and Min’s storyline. Min’s consorting with Ishamael is completely out of character, and Matt still doesn’t have his luck! Matt remains mostly uninteresting in the show and he’s probably my favorite in the book. Do you think they’re going to skip his big scene beating Galad and Gawyn with a quarter staff?
I hope they don't skip it, but they still haven't introduced either of those characters yet.
Pretty sure we got all of it we’re going to… in the extras, and Nyn fighting 2 warders…
Just curious, how TF is show Matt going to use a staff? His show dad couldn’t have taught him. I mean Tam got 1 Trolloc, Nyn has like 2 in hand to hand.
Yep, you are right.
In the books, the sul'dam never resorted to using direct physical violence on their damane - they used the a'dam to make it feel as if the damane were experiencing injuries. Think of it as tweaking the nerve centers associated with any particular part of the body to send pain signals to the brain.
It feels like the female characters are being pushed to the forefront and im left with morsels for the males.
Rand feels directionless. Hes suppose to be this big deal and yet hes spent more time making love than becoming the dragon reborn. Can we learn some sword skills, progress channeling abilities, have a goal to accomplish?
This is what the books do so well too, all the training and learning and growing that happens to Rand is very satisfying and enjoyable to experience along side him.
I was totally expecting him to go see his dad.
Moriane should be respected and feared - not hated
4:07 Yep. Tam was my first thought at this point.
I feel much the same about the show as you. I think there are good things and bad. I do think this season is better as they are going into some of the lore and setting things up better. Book rand would have picked Tam : ). Show Rand who had a relationship with Egwene, well it makes sense. As far as Moraine and being stilled I thought so to as it is not likely we will get the red door story line so this will have her in a similar position to the end of that plot line. The show has problems obviously the source material is too much to directly convert for the amount of show time they have even if they wanted to do that. I had a lot of issues with season 1 but I like this season even if I still do not agree with everything. I have more hope for what comes now.
On Liandrin and the oaths: There's actualy a conversation between Nynaeve and Liandrin where Liandrin kinda admits to breaking all three oaths. Specifically Nyn accuses her of breaking the three oaths and she says "I've broken many more than that."
As for your vindication, this is Wheel of Time. The narrators are unreliable. Am I to believe the evidence of my own eyes, the shield that looks just like Logain's shield, and nothing like the gentling, or the unreliable narrator?
This episode was solid. The show is definitely improving, but there still a lot of reasons not to love it. 😅 I think I only ended up making 2 notes about this episode. But both were positive things. The reuniting of Rand and Mat, and then the brutality of what’s happening with Egwene. But the fact that I’m not worried about not watching next episode on release day (I’ll be traveling) says quite a bit.
-T
I’ve been reading this series for over 30 years. There is 100% , absolute, no doubt in my mind that Rand would choose to Egwene over anyone, ever (at this point)
Rand , in the books, NEVER even went once originally or later on to Tam. I gotta HIGHLY disagree with you on that topic
I would go as far to say that 3/4 of the books or more, he would always choose Egwene.
Oh man I hard disagree that 3/4 of the book he’d choose egwene. By the beginning of book 3 they both admit to each other that they don’t have romantic feelings anymore for each other! He cares about her but in the show they are expanding it a lot imon
@@Bookborn I can totally see your viewpoint but I still disagree. Even though they aren't romantic, he always checks on her as she is arguably his oldest, most important figure from childhood. I can tell you from way too many years of experience that your 1st love, regardless of how and why, will always have the strongest hold on you emotionally. (Does not need to be romantic but it's there) That feeling to "protect" is so beyond strong sometimes, at least for me. (Obvious caveats to my comment if a person had a terrible experience, etc)
@@Bookborn
"By the beginning of book 3 they both admit to each other that they don’t have romantic feelings anymore for each other!"
That is in the first quarter of Book 4 - The Shadow Rising - as Egwene "makes way" (not really because she's already stopped caring for him in that way, but that's essentially what she tells Elayne) for Elayne. This happens in The Stone of Tear, in the aftermath of the Prophecy of the Sword that is not a Sword coming true.
Basically Sul'dam are crazy cat ladies turned up to 11 lol
100% agree. I feel he would have gone to Tam.
Moiraine 'thinks' shes been stilled. Watch this space...
Wheel of Time show is great if you've trouble sleeping at night.
Rand would see his dad first! The book-Rand, at least. The show-Rand is just a super blank character. Loved the Egwene scene. ❤
I also thought that Rand would choose to see Tam, since he didn't seem to think about Egwene that much in the second season.
Yup, there are moments I really like in this show, but all the best character development is avoiding my boys and it's making me sad. The end scene with Egwene was fire...I was thinking in my head "oh please end this with 'good damane' and all will be forgiven." They got close enough. Nailed that scene.
I'm the most interested in Rand's storyline right now, but pretty sure it's only because I'm a book reader. Seeing what is likely coming for him - oh boy. A bit confusing because it seems half the world knows he is (or might be) the Dragon Reborn, which if I recall Moiraine and Siuan kept that pretty close to the chest for first few books. Still though, having 14 Aes Sedai + Rand + knowledge that he can channel/might be Dragon is going to make for a fun episode 7. Likely Siuan bungling (or being seen to bungle) things with Rand will lead to further developments in her storyline, which I'm intrigued by. And I know this is VERY unlikely, but if they move an early book 2 moment to this next episode (Cat Crosses the Courtyard), I WILL FORGIVE SO MUCH. PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN. Anyway, I'm intrigued in Rand storyline mostly because of book knowledge and anticipation of future events. Do non book readers also enjoy the Rand storyline...??? Curious minds want to know.
Long time fan of the books and I think the best way to say it is… the show has some great talent and the production value is great! I have some issues I’d like to bring up with the writers though. Firstly SLOW DOWN! there is a lot of story there.
Haven’t read the books, and I have a VISCERAL hatred for Moiraine
Noooo 😭😭😭 but also I get it 🥲🥲
We have had 14 episodes:
Rand: no character development, no skill growth
Mat: no character development, no skill growth, not even a change of clothes
Perrin: very little character development, no skill growth
It is hard to see them having much of Rand's The Shadow Rising plotline next season as he is just so far off where he should be. Perrin will be on the Two Rivers plotline but it is going to be a major character change if he is going to lead as he did in the books. Not got a clue what Mat might do.
Darkfriend Min 🤮 Dark Mat 🤮 Rand bending the knee to Lanfear 🤮 I mean come on Rand, Lanfear offered to kill show Moiraine, what is the problem with that?
It would have been nice for Rand to have picked Tam, or indeed Perrin as he knew Mat was ok. It is clear we are going to get much more teen drama between Rand and Egwene. How this works with Lanfear 🤷♂️
The lack of travel time in the show is bad, it just makes everything seem like it is only a day's travel. Except for Perrin's journey, but he probably just got lost a lot...
This is my main gripe at this point and it's entirely a selfish one as I connect the most with the male characters, especially rand and Matt and just feel like they're still being mostly ignored in terms of character development. Egwene has been awesome, as had Nyneave but I just wish our boys got some momentum behind them.
@@Gilescowdemdem be steadfast
At this point egwene can be the dragon reborn
@@Gilescowdemdemyou are not imagining it, and its not selfish to want 3 of the main characters to get their due. It’s ridiculous that minor characters like Liandrin have more dialogue, motivation, agency, and story beats than Rand, Mat and Perrin combined. These are intentional creative choices the writers are making. It didn’t have to be this way.
Surely the show has book readers on the panel of writers, I wonder if they are being overruled because the show has been going in a strange direction where it feels like the writers are just creating their own content because they never got the chance to write their own books
I think Rafe is going to make Rand die at some point, S3 or 4, and Nynaeve will end up being the actual Dragon Reborn. I think it's a long con, based on S1E4 where they talk about the Dragon's power being like the sun and then Nynaeve does the sunburst heal thing. Rand is a side character in this abomination of the source material.
Regardless, S2E6 was the best episode by far.
Meh and middling are accurate descriptions. I also hate Moirraine.
Although it wasn't explained well, I was very glad to see the dream world (Tel'aran'rhiod) coming into play.
I definitely agree that Rand would want to see Tam I was also hoping that would happen
I have a similar meh feeling about the show. On its own, I think it’s pretty mediocre and often dull. There are some things that I think are cool, but there are at least as many that I find confounding. Take the three oaths - in the show we don’t know what they are, so it’s entirely possible that Liandrin broke them all.
As an adaptation, I think the show is pretty bad. It feels off in story, tone, characterization and themes. Sometimes it’s minor things, like having Nynaeve realize that the collar needed “healing.” As I recall, solving the collar was Elayne’s triumph. Other things that are lacking - when will Rand train either his power or his sword or archery skills. Even worse, Min is a darkfriend? Rand is cutting deals with people he knows are forsaken? It’s not terrible TV, but it’s not the story I vaguely recall.
One other minor difference is that in the books there is a long term plotline where the Aes Sedai are less powerful because Aes Sedai generally don't have kids, and channeling is genetic. So as a result while Egwene is quite powerful she is not considered an outlier by the Seanchan, who have people like Alivia. But in the show she is the most powerful Damane for hundreds of years. This makes me think we won't get Alivia, which is not surprising but slightly sad
Given how they portrayed Moraine, I am dreading the show's take on Cadsuane.
yeah I have also said she was stilled so i'm with you on that Bookborn, i hated only 1/2 this episode, all the scenes with egwene and the adam i actually liked due to it feeling like the books for a change. the world feels so tiny, like tar valon and cairhien feel so close 2 rivers is just down the road form tarvalon too, and like it can't be that far from Camylyn since the Amarlyn was just there in episode 4 i think.
FLICKERRRRRRRRRRRR
Moiraine is objectively evil i feel, Rand is also a lot more evil as hell he near killed a guy just so he could talk to Logain they're still doing matt Dirty as they've now made him into a conman to boot swindling on the street, Nynayeve is just a pouty whiney malicious woman, Perin feels mopey and with the new take on Elyas who objectively hinders the search for the horn by not warning the shinarans about the seanchen and hates people more.Mins working with Darkfriends knowingly, there really doesn't feel like there are good people any more especially in our MC's
They're still giving book moments of the boys too the girls, like they gave matts moment with the warders to Nynaeve so the girls are even more prominent and the men are almost background characters
Updoot for flicker transition, felt like a lifetime just went by...
As a book reader I just feel disappointed more than anything else. There are parts here and there throughout both seasons that are amazing. There are changes they made from the books that are an improvement, but overall, I agree with you, meh. The series as a whole is meh and that is disappointing because I really wanted to love it as much as I loved the books or at least almost as much as I loved the books. I'd never give any episode more than a 5/10 and many fall well below that. I'm disappointed that as a beloved book series that is so vast, rich and amazing in so many ways that they gave us this watered down, bland version.
In case you havent noticed, moiraine isnt the brightest bulb in the box. She is constantly getting things wrong. When verin saves moiraine and lan from the fades moiraine clearly shown to be able to see verins weaves.
Having said that, im not sure if they have established whether normal people can see the flows of power or not.
Love these breakdown! I think moraine thinks she is stilled so it wouldn’t technically be a lie
She says she's not even a person now.
At this point the best Rand can manage is Skimming.
I am both like/dislike myself. Now, as to Rand's channeling, I thought that the weave that roasted the Myrdraal was actually made by Lews acting sub rosa. Rand might have thought to do it but could not have done it. So that leaves Lews.
The thing is, the showrunners and writers' room are clumsy at best at handling this very delicate material. Jordan created the literary equivalent of the Age Lace he refers to in his book-internal mythology and that kind of thing is either rendered in adaptation or one gets a standard=issue sword and sorcery thing. We're mostly getting the latter. The last two episodes show that they can move in the direction of the book but don't prove that they will want to.
Moirenne is a travesty in this show. They mistake rudeness for strength, and double down on it. It's like most things lately. What happened to the Wealtheows? Hrothgar's wife from Beowulf is intelligent and skillfull. Gracious, yet firm in the face of danger. The model of what Galadriel was supposed to be, but instead they made her a rude barbarian, sans beard. Amazon clearly doesn't respect their women characters.
I really liked this episode and imo it was very close to the book. Not exactly but in spirit.
I'm a book reader who only recently read the whole book series 2 years ago. I feel like even within the book community Rand has always been jokingly known as "Rand the Bland" for being quite an uninteresting main character. I'm not defending the TV show's portrayal, but also he's not exactly known for being a super compelling main character
I expected him to go see Tam too, but in the show they didn't really establish that relationship as deeply as in the books, especially missing the whole fever ranting and Rand's internal struggle. Within the show's premise, it wasn't surprising he went to see Egwene tho.
The Suldam/Damane relationships in the book are a great deal more horrifying because they FEEL more real.
The Suldam TRULY believe what they do it right. That Damane NEED to be leashed and that disobedience MUST be punished (lest the power once more be used to dominate people or break the world. So, they're not EXACTLY wrong :P)
The idea that a Damane might simply choose to serve and be kept and rewarded as a valued pet is IMMENSELY disgusting bc it is quite obvious how many people would choose obedience. The stick and the carrot make the situation FAR deeper with it being quite clear that real affection can occur between the two groups despite the gulf of power between them. Just like in real life, how power dynamics can alter something from acceptable or even positive to instead be disgusting.
I think this is a case where the writers are exaggerating the more overt ACTIONS and neglecting the more subtle characterisation and themes.
I think the show could have done a better job of this while preserving the eventual overt horror they went for (which was probably a good adaptation choice... albeit I think more inspired by Terry Goodkind's Mordsith, which were almost certainly inspired by Suldam :P)
Begin with Egwene assuming the worst. Imagine doom and horror. Then being treated well, given good food spoken to with affection (but not respect) Then next scene the same pleasant woman telling Egwene of the consequences of failure or disobedience without a HINT of threat. Just describing reality, and the audience realising JUST what is ahead. THEN Egwene disobeys and is immediately disciplined and dehumanised... but NOT with anger. The trainer is disappointed that the chained animal will only respond to the stick. Then lean into the horror as the show did.
I think the slower burn makes things a GREAT deal worse than simple repetition.
Honestly, whether she is shielded or stilled doesn’t really matter to me. That whole plot line is just fan fiction to give rosamund more screen time and development early on. As someone whose favorite book character was moiraine I thought I would like more moiraine screen time but they made her so unlikeable too.
Great video anyways, always enjoy these
They do call the Damane quarters Kennels in the book