To everyone who stayed later in the chat of the premiere, the chat just ends after a while after the video ends. I wrote this, but it was too late. Thought I'd share it anyway "Hey, if the chat goes out, thanks for being here everyone. I really do value your support 🤗 I will fight for the animals no matter what, but it's nice to feel support in such a tough environment"
The hypocrisy was pretty clear. She said she wouldn't abuse others (no matter the intelligence, color, look, culture, etc) if it benefits her. And at the end she said "it is OK because it benefits humans"... This new format is a great way to show the contradictions
Indeed. Deep down she isn't all bad, she's just been given bad information as well as generational conditioning. It's like the animal agriculture industries...they recruit people to be spokespersons for them...and the people don't even know they are doing it.
"How a cow is gonna express emotions?" That's the problem, people are disconnected. You can see cows sad, happy, there are so many videos of cows literally crying on the line for slaughter...
What a dishonest hypocrite! I hope she watches this back and is thoroughly ashamed of herself and learns something from it. You handled it very well. A frustrating and disappointing conversation, but hopefully seeds were sown 🙏💚
The audacity the mum had to tell you how to advocate for animal rights when she is a hypocrite and won’t even stop paying for animals to be exploited and killed when she said it was wrong herself! No wonder her daughter made all the excuses.
Such gross behavior from her😕😕😕😟😟😟 I seriously don't get how people can be so irrational and callous towards an ethical crisis😢😢😢 "It benefits us" "Plants are alive" "What would we do with all the animals" It's just infuriating and sad knowing that there are so many people like this who we share the planet with😞😞😞🌎🌎🌎 But then again, no injustice can live forever Thank you for speaking up Cip♥️♥️♥️ The world will go vegan😊😊😊💚💚💚🌱🌱🌱🌎🌎🌎
Exactly, Nataly! This supremacist behavior is so bad for everyone: the animals, the world and even humans.. like, just forget that idea: we all value or lives equally. Thank you for watching 🤗💚
I guess be less mad at people like this and more at the industries who spend millions upholding these lies that keep people believing in the absolute nonsense.
you did great, Cip. they were so triggered. i love the extra things you add to each video.💚🌱i love to see the cows playing ball. so sweet. i have seen video of turkeys doing that too!🌱
That’s awesome! Good to know, to use it in conversations. Thanks! 🙏 It’s insane how some people think these animals are just automatrons when you can literally see the happiness in them
"I'm against animal cruelty". No, not if you are paying for it to happen when you have the option not to. You support animal cruelty by definition. Accept it or change.
Well said. I'm gonna start calling people out more on this one. Like, not only are you not against animal cruelty - you love it and you pay money to ensure it keeps happening - good job! (Sometimes being a sarcastic smart arse is warranted)
Hey Dandelion- A fantastic vegan themed book is William Kotzwinkle’s satirical 1976 book Doctor Rat. It mostly focuses on animal experimentation, but there are some powerful standalone chapters on horrors faced by farm animals. One is told from the perspective of a spent layer hen up until the point of her terrifying slaughter.
That is a good question to ask if it comes naturally. When do you think I could’ve asked it? Maybe the conversation would’ve gotten to a different place if they started to think about that
@@veganpowerlab if they are not someone, then what are they, a thing, an object ? Most people seem to get stuck and cross and just blurt out ,they are animals ! It definitely changes the whole conversation. I always enjoy your vegan outreach, you are easy to talk to and you definitely get people thinking !
Excellent vegan outreach ! Thank you for holding them accountable ! They are fully aware of the cruelty they are participating in and were very triggered when you called them out. Well done. They must now live as hypocrites.
Yeah. It almost feels like this was the beginning for them. They now are aware of their hypocrisy. Hope they maintain the awareness and, maybe if they see a cube, maybe they’ll think twice, since they would see the horrors and know they participate in it. 💚🤗
Aaarrrghhhh Cip! Arrrrgghhh!!! I feel the same frustration as you. Some people just aren't very empathetic, are they? Seems like it ran in the family here, as well. You did your best and you know that. Some people will receive the message better than others, and through those people we will create change. You never know, they may have a change of heart after this conversation when they're not so defensive. Thank you thank you thank you, for speaking up on behalf of animals 💚💚💚
I think they’ll remember the conversation, and hopefully will see the video to hear themselves out lout. They agreed on consent, including for animals and then proceeded in defending animal cruelty. Cognitive dissonance.. 🤗💚
5 and a half minutes of saying exactly the things in line with vegan philosophy, and then when the word "Slaughterhouse" is brought up it just completely freezes the brain. I just dont understand people like this. I went vegan overnight in 2015 after seeing one Slaughterhouse video. Thanks for your work man! Vegan future
Just have to chime in after watching the whole vid and say, Your awesome sir!!!! You cut no corners in this dialogue and hopefully planted some seeds!!!!
I hope so too. I made sure that when they left they knew they are responsible. If they see a cube afterwards, they might actually change. Thanks for watching and for the support 💚🤗
Damn, they were not very open but you had a great talk anyway I think! Great video😄 I watched the end and want to tell you - don't be shy explaining supply&demand when it comes to "what are we gonna do with all these animals if we went vegan??" I believe alot of people miss thinking about their personal responsibility in that moment. If you explain it with supply&demand also in the end, they will understand the "phasing out" point we have about the "billions of animals going wild", and hopefully, they will also feel much more responsible for their "part" of it - I sure did, actually😅👌 Thank you!💚
20:55 she would vote to stop people murdering and stop people being racist or exist or even kicking dogs. But it's wrong for u to speak up only because she is the perpetrator when it comes to exploiting farm animals
Great work, but, instead of responding to her nonsense, you should had pointed out her first answers about consent. Ask her why she changed her views. Also, when she critisized your activism, just say "why are you concerned about my ways when you are still paying for this?". Just a bit of advice.
That was a brilliant outreach , how annoying was the mother who had the audacity to try and correct you . It gets harder and harder to put up with these people imo .The vystopia is difficult to cope with sometimes.
I get it, Martin! But, we stay positive. After all, even if these people didn’t get pushed on the vegan scale, I think something happened there. I think that they started to realize the hypocrisy. It’s a beginning… Thanks you so much, Martin! You were also there in the premiere 🤗💚🤗💚
Roughly 18:45 - The i don't care what other people do excuse. Which flies completely in the face of the whole concent line of reasoning which she was dead against.
I like the idea of framing it as a social experiment. I think when you reveal you are doing vegan activism it may help them feel you didn’t trick them by telling them something like: “The goal of my social experiment is to examine effect of asking people to reflect on their moral values prior to a conversation on veganism.” This is an interesting field of study with published research, so you aren’t misleading people by saying you are collecting data for a social experiment.
@@veganpowerlab Sure, I think as long as you maintain that it is a “social experiment” when you debrief them they (hopefully) won’t feel tricked. But really dishonest people like these two will find a way to be triggered no matter what you say. 😓
So selfish they are eh Cip? They can say they are against animal abuse & still try hard to justify why they contribute to the worst abuse. Very hard to deal with this reasoning 😞
Thanks Cip for doing your best with two difficult, hypocritical people who are clearly unable to empathize with others. As soon as the victim is different than what they had in mind they immediately contradicted their clear answers. I think this new approach is very promising but human selfishness is a powerful obstacle no matter what approach one takes with outreach.
Seems like it. But, I do think they’ll remember the conversation and perhaps they will reflect upon it. I don’t know. That’s why at the end I made sure that they don’t leave without clearing it up that they are responsible. If they see a cube after this, maybe they’ll remember the words. Thanks for watching 🤗💚
It is sad we have this indoctrinated wall up. We are often not only being "not connected" to these animals, but disconnected. And not just because "they are not pets" as she explained - we are also made to think about farmed animals very differently, we are removed yes, but we are next to that taught to think of them more like mindless machines at times, than living beings. We are made to think about "their purpose" differently. Ilogical, and inconsistant with everything else we do and want as a "compassionate" species for sure.. Vegan, because ofc💚
This video should be shown in schools to teach what cognative dissonance looks like. Their morals and actions did not align and so instead of aligning they start justifying their behaviour no matter how inconsistent their logic is, as long as they feel good about themselves.
Very well done! I love this strategy! Thank you for pushing it through the developmental stages for us to learn from! The Vegan Jesus has arrived and He is Cip!😂😉
Interrupting Cip was so on point, hoping other people go vegan is about saving animals not "because we are" - such an arrogant statement by non vegans to suggest otherwise.
Excellent job staying calm and articulate when you had two people getting really feisty. Ironically, i was thinking that the reason why mom was angry about your "social experiment " approach is bcz she feels what they "consented" to was a social experiment and she felt what you were doing was not what they consented to. Too funny.
Yeah. I mean, it was a social experiment after all. I really was curious why people can understand consent for people, but not for animals. Like, it’s easy: they also have free will. Anyway, thank you so much 🙏🤗💚
Funny how the mom just randomly got triggered and started trying to tell you how to do your activism. Can't stand when carnists think they know how to fight for animals rights when they themselves are prop animal cruelty. Hopefully these ladies open their minds up one day
Indeed. It was a ridiculous position that they took. And, they didn’t even have good points. Like, they were complaining I was talking to them on the street and suggested I go to where people eat? Wtf.. like, why would they like it more in that situation…
She is Polish - z pomyślunkiem XD She felt tricked - but if this trick didn't reveal their hipocrisy they would probably laugh and said: you got me. They are angry because they realized they pay for animal abuse...
@@veganpowerlab The translation of this Polish word "z pomyślunkiem" is: done with thought. She was trying to suggest you to think more about the way you approach people. My private opinion: you didn't do anything wrong. She was angry because you used her own words against her and as a result she realized she was a hypocrite.
Thank you so much. Yeah, I was wondering how did I lose them. They seemed to understand consent, and also for animals. But, somehow were still defending the cruelty that they go through.. cognitive dissonance at its finest
@@veganpowerlab Yeah you did great. I think there's something called normalization process in psychology. Maybe we need more education on this. Where something that shouldnt be normal becomes normal over time. Like a woman loving a man thats abusive to her etc. Im picturing you asking these questions in lets say a middle eastern country where people are fine with executing non-straight people. It would probably go exactly the same as this interview with the two ladies. They would first agree that we need to treat everyone in a good way and so on, but when you bring up homosexuals how would that then go?
Roughly 7:30 - Iron Deficiency. Its a common myth that you need "red meat" for iron. There are so many better sources of Iron out there, particularly better to have a source that isnt a Class 2 carcinogen. I know multiple people in just the past year who have been hospitalised with iron deficiencies, all of them on the meat heavy standard western diet. 5 minutes on a search engine and you'll know everything you need to know about Iron, but basically dark green leafy vegetables, pepitas (pumpkin seeds) and whatever else you like. And make sure to have high vitamin C so you can absorb the iron.
Exactly! But she did say she could supplement it and didn’t comment on it. So, maybe that’s something she would be open to. It’s the rest of the things that she defends that make no sense..
Cip (I hope I spelt your name correctly), you are an amazing activist and it was brilliant how you ensured you did not let the couple get away with the nonsense they were saying when their defensiveness was triggered. This type of people are the most difficult and infuriating people to talk to who actually aren’t very compassionate and lack humility
You're right, cognitive dissonance is the better term. I was referring to all of Europe. Intelligence is a very complex subject. I do think that smart intelligent people go vegan. 😊
I'm not sure how I got here, but that was an interesting discussion that went on just a bit too long. I wouldn't call it "heated" by any stretch. Overall respectful and not too inflammatory or accusatory, but you could tell the exact moment you were both sick of each other, lol. That's a pretty neat way to do activism and I can see how it would plant some seeds for thought. Must be pretty hard to stay kind when most of the world doesn't agree with something you feel so passionately about. You did really great, though. I find the idea of veganism intriguing in a philosophical way, like "what an interesting thought exercise". Though I have been making gradual changes to reduce our household's reliance on animal-based food, it's definitely more of a health- and cost-based decision and a means to make OUR lives better. Ultimately I don't view using animals for our benefit as morally wrong and I'm not sure what it would take for me to ever change that view. All that said, seeing things like this definitely has me thinking more about it!
Great content. You do outreach incredibly well & your channel is criminally undersubscribed. I shared this video on Twitter b/c it's so good. The main girl in the video got do triggered because you shot down every argument with logic & facts. Great to be on the same side as you 👊
It's really interesting when folks say "unfortunately" as if it refers to the luck of the draw and it's out of their control when the complete inverse is true and the supply only exists because of demand
That’s such a good point. It’s another way of absolving themselves of any responsibility… because if they knew their responsibility in the matter, then they would feel guilty and be faced with having to change
@@veganpowerlab John Rawls' thought experiment of 'the best of all possible worlds' applies well to the same thing. To summarize it, you imagine you've not yet been born and there's a veil of ignorance preventing you from knowing anything about yourself or circumstances and asks how you would set up society if you have an equal chance of being born as anyone in that society. Including non-human animals in the thought experiment is a really effective way to cut through to the victims perspective and eliminates the "Luck of the draw" element because everything is equally as likely. "Unfortunately it is the way it is" doesn't cut the mustard from the perspective of a victim who never had a choice. Edit: the theory was actually from Leibniz, but Rawls has an interesting take on it
Haha, at them being critical...yeah Cip doesbt do shouting, he does conversations and intellect... Different strokes for different folks. Logic and Compassion must be a bridge too far for them i suppose. Generational Conditioning....better ignore the facts and go with the majority aye?
Exactly! And, it was sad to see it happen on such a young person. But, I believe that if her mom hadn’t interrupted the conversation in the first place, she would’ve reflected more. Thanks for everything, djcat 🤗💚
I feel like the cognitive dissonance was too strong for her that she felt really uncomfortable, which turned into anger, which turned into putting up a giant wall. Hopefully she would reflect on these points and go vegan.
When she says “ I wouldn’t tell my mum not to eat meat” she contradicts her statement early when she said you should tell people not to abduct others if everyone else was doing it.
Weird indeed that she called it a triangle. My guess was that she was maybe trying to refer to a pyramid of food and her information got entangled in her head
I don’t know why it’s so fascinating for me to watch these videos and see these folks coming up with outrages and silly excuses to justify their actions. The meat eaters I respect are the ones who just say the truth. “ I like meat” without some obtuse justifications.
I wouldn't have done the hard turn into talking about slaughterhouses. I would've first started talking about wild animals, than maybe feral domestic animals. Seen how she responds. Than you could isolate the speciesism fromt he defense of meat eating, which I believe are different things. I mean, your argument basically puts picking up any animal and taking them somewhere on the level of doing the same to a human.
@@veganpowerlab it’s very different to people to go from a hypothetical crime against a human to the most entrenched and defended use of animals there is. I never said it was a leap to go from human to animal, You did not read my comment correctly. If you JUST want people to compare the treatment of humans and animals you go from human to dog/chimp, not human to the meat industry.
How about you go convince a lion to become vegan, or maybe stand in front of a hungry one and hope it asks for your concern before sending you to the afterlife... It's only cruel if you're just doing it for fun, but if it's to survive then it's the cycle of life
Well, you always have an option. So, then, why do you make the choice to kill animals for food? Since it’s not for survival, cause you could survive and thrive on plants and plant based foods
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus for sure. Triggered that hunger. Imma eat now because you just triggered that hunger now. A big ol' sloppy burger with fries. Have fun eating grass.
Creepy as hell approaching women and using a kidnapping and sexual assault analogy to attempt to convert them to veganism. - A happy, healthy omnivore.
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus Most normal people consider it rude to walk away from somebody who is engaging them and are uncomfortable doing so. That’s what these kinds of street evangelists count on. They should have disengaged and walked away.
@@leeretaschen231 "normal" people disengage all the time, when they are not interested in continuing the conversation. these women are not shrinking violets, by any stretch. "normal" people are aware of polite and also impolite ways of disengaging. you are triggered, so you are bent on trying to find fault with the message and its delivery. you would like to distract yourself from the issue of animal use.
I would have loved to have the discussion with you. My mother is a vegetarian and my gf is aswel. But I am not. I feel like i have a pretty good perspective from both sides. Not gonna type all my arguments bc it’s too much. But my opinion boils down to this: meat should be available for consumption. However i do think it shouldn’t be the norm to eat meat every day. Also i think the people who eat meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal them selfs. As it gives them/us perspective on how the meat gets on your plate. You could see the living animal be killed and bleed. Which doesn’t look pretty. But that is why we should see it. Too many people want meat as much as they can. But aren’t willing to see how the meat got on their plates. Which i think is self censorship. Which leads to a polarized view to people’s meat opinion. Also the mass production is not okey. The animals are going through awful circumstances. Also i think it is completely normal for humans to eat meat since we are omnivores. Literally thousands of years of evolution has lead to that. We all would probably not have existed if it wasn’t for animal consumption. Also I think if we all ate a lot less meat. The animals would receive a much better live (ofc bc of the supply/demand and the existing facilities) before they are fucking killed for my yummy dinner😋 (Sorry had to put some funny shit in it. And i know most of the people who’ll read this won’t think it is funny. But I do think it is funny)
Okey since i have made an entire bible on why i stand by my opinion. I would be open to further opening the discussion. The only thing i ask is for my opposing side to be open for an opinion that does not 100% correlate to yours. As I will be doing the same. Last thing: I support the vegan community and i think it is really beautiful and selfless to not eat meat. It shows a kind of empathy that is trans-species. And i support that choice 100%. Good for you.
@@veganpowerlab wow sorry for my late reply. Kinda forgot. Anyway. I think most of you (not everyone has the same motive) do it because of environmental or anti animal cruelty reasons. Also it is not necessary for survival in this day in age, as there are many supplements and replacements for meat, and meat based products. I would love to proceed this conversation. As i hope to reach an understanding from both sides. Even if it is just a tiny bit. And if not, that is also fine. We could never all have the same opinion.
It disgusts me that most of the comments under this video are in support of the video creator when he is so disingenuous. He tries to act respectful but is seeking aspects of the people he talks to with the goal of undermining rather than encouraging the good things alongside education for improvement. Never a good word for being pescatarian, which is already a greater effort than most and shows some manner of effortful thought on the subject. And worse... zero empathy for iron deficiency issues; launching straight into supplements which some people do not do well with or do not trust for reasons individual to their biology (context for this assertion: I live with someone who reacts badly to 80% of brands). What's more, he says he Googled the fact about trees and found 0 references to what she is talking about, but if you look up "do trees save other dying trees" there are tons of articles immediately available about fungal systems networking roots and nutrients to keep dying trees alive. It is by no means any evidence for plant sentience, but lying about the existence of facts to push your point/agenda is really not a good approach. Suffice it to say that I am deeply unimpressed by how the political agenda overpowered philosophical discourse in this video.
It’s interesting that it came across like that to you, but let me clarify some things to you. First, I don’t seek to undermine anyone. I seek to stay on the path of talking about animals. Being a pescatarian is in no way better if you do it for yourself. I asked her why she was a pescatarian. Her intent wasn’t to minimize harm, but rather to think about herself more. So, there is no difference between that and any other person. She still sees animals as objects to pick and choose who to kill and who not. So, why exactly should I applaud that? As for deficiencies, I asked directly about the supplements. I’m not there to feel sorry for them, I’m there to defend animals. So, I didn’t want to get into nutrition. Just, wanted to clear it up. About the trees thing. I just couldn’t find the source. Seems like you did. Props to you. Does it change the narrative? No. Did you decide to focus on one thing and completely ignore all the other sources I provided? Yes! And, why is it that you defend her, but not me? Could it be because you relate to her more? Could it be that her narrative speaks to you? Are you a pescatarian? Is that it? As for “political agenda”, I was there to try to get them to reflect on the victims of their choices. There is no politics there and don’t try to make it about politics just to excuse your exploitation of animals.
@veganpowerlab It's abundantly clear that you didn't even try to find it on Google, but presented to your audience that you did. I wasn't going to defend anyone until I saw that. I typically stay away from this debate since I think it generally has to skip a lot of other philosophical discussion first, but I draw a line when I see what appears to be outright lies and deception. The fact it took me 2 seconds to find but you say you tried to find it and couldn't changes the narrative for me since you try to present yourself with a sense of trust and cooperative nature. I'm not sure about ignoring your sources since I've not said any of those were true or false. I'm sure you did the homework on your side, but you didn't do it on the other side. Which is fine...but you claimed that you did. That's what bothers me.
Anyway, you say you are all about discussing the harm caused to the victims of animal exploitation and you've implied that it makes a difference to make dietary choices as a means of harm reduction, so I can try to engage even though the topic goes very deep since you're actually engaging with my comment (I'm impressed that you didn't simply delete it). I would ask how you define harm. Is harm equal for all animals and all humans or is it in proportion to sentience?
@GhostRider-ce3eb She uses some weird arguments. Especially the one at the end about cannibalism during the Cold War. Apparently that actually happened in Russia but that can't be compared and, even if it could, it doesn't make anything right.
The vegan says 'oh i cant stop you' as if the only thing stopping him is the law, and if that was removed then he would happily stop you. Any vegan that even tries to stop me from eating meat will regret it for the rest of their life.
@@asdf1991asdf No, you are definitely missing the point here. What he is saying is that it simply isn't possible or practical for vegans to run around after people, policing what they eat for the rest of their lives. There is absolutely nothing he can do to stop you, aside from having a conversation and trying to reason with people, so that the vegan movement slowly grows enough to the point where eating meat becomes socially frowned upon. There is absolutely no implication of physical restraint or violence...
@Argon-Matt eating meat is fine and is back in vogue after decades of elite demonisation and propaganda. Meat is the species' appropriate food. Veganism is beyond ignorant of the bigger picture of regarding environment, human health, society, and nature. It is a misreading of life and our role within it
To everyone who stayed later in the chat of the premiere, the chat just ends after a while after the video ends. I wrote this, but it was too late. Thought I'd share it anyway
"Hey, if the chat goes out, thanks for being here everyone. I really do value your support 🤗 I will fight for the animals no matter what, but it's nice to feel support in such a tough environment"
👋
Thankyou for speaking up for the animals !❤
The hypocrisy was pretty clear. She said she wouldn't abuse others (no matter the intelligence, color, look, culture, etc) if it benefits her. And at the end she said "it is OK because it benefits humans"...
This new format is a great way to show the contradictions
It is indeed. And it helps pinpoint kind/of the issue. But, it seems that not everyone gets it
Indeed.
Deep down she isn't all bad, she's just been given bad information as well as generational conditioning.
It's like the animal agriculture industries...they recruit people to be spokespersons for them...and the people don't even know they are doing it.
"How a cow is gonna express emotions?"
That's the problem, people are disconnected. You can see cows sad, happy, there are so many videos of cows literally crying on the line for slaughter...
🥺🥺🥺🐄🐄🐄♥️♥️♥️
This woman is VERY selfish. Just facts.
What a dishonest hypocrite! I hope she watches this back and is thoroughly ashamed of herself and learns something from it. You handled it very well. A frustrating and disappointing conversation, but hopefully seeds were sown 🙏💚
The audacity the mum had to tell you how to advocate for animal rights when she is a hypocrite and won’t even stop paying for animals to be exploited and killed when she said it was wrong herself! No wonder her daughter made all the excuses.
Non-vegans telling vegans how to activism🫤🫤🫤😓😓😓
Like, do your activism so they don't feel bad... about doing something bad. 🙄
Such gross behavior from her😕😕😕😟😟😟 I seriously don't get how people can be so irrational and callous towards an ethical crisis😢😢😢
"It benefits us"
"Plants are alive"
"What would we do with all the animals"
It's just infuriating and sad knowing that there are so many people like this who we share the planet with😞😞😞🌎🌎🌎
But then again, no injustice can live forever
Thank you for speaking up Cip♥️♥️♥️ The world will go vegan😊😊😊💚💚💚🌱🌱🌱🌎🌎🌎
Exactly, Nataly! This supremacist behavior is so bad for everyone: the animals, the world and even humans.. like, just forget that idea: we all value or lives equally.
Thank you for watching 🤗💚
I guess be less mad at people like this and more at the industries who spend millions upholding these lies that keep people believing in the absolute nonsense.
@@djcat64That's true, so many people indoctrinated into speciesism😢😢😢💔💔💔🐥🐥🐥
you did great, Cip. they were so triggered. i love the extra things you add to each video.💚🌱i love to see the cows playing ball. so sweet. i have seen video of turkeys doing that too!🌱
That’s awesome! Good to know, to use it in conversations. Thanks! 🙏
It’s insane how some people think these animals are just automatrons when you can literally see the happiness in them
Cip:"The male calves go for slaughter"
Woman:"Ok"
Vegan for the victims💚🐄💚
"I'm against animal cruelty". No, not if you are paying for it to happen when you have the option not to. You support animal cruelty by definition. Accept it or change.
100% dandeliongum1
It’s ridiculous how people refuse to accept it
Well said.
I'm gonna start calling people out more on this one.
Like, not only are you not against animal cruelty - you love it and you pay money to ensure it keeps happening - good job! (Sometimes being a sarcastic smart arse is warranted)
Hey Dandelion- A fantastic vegan themed book is William Kotzwinkle’s satirical 1976 book Doctor Rat. It mostly focuses on animal experimentation, but there are some powerful standalone chapters on horrors faced by farm animals. One is told from the perspective of a spent layer hen up until the point of her terrifying slaughter.
Excellent job
Thanks paulcristo! 🤗💚 if the mom hadn’t detailed the conversation, I think it would’ve been better
17:11 she not vegan because...
She is deflecting to be held accountable
Great outreach. U did so well.
The question that needs to be asked is " do you think animals are someone,if not what are they, a thing, such as table or chair ?
That is a good question to ask if it comes naturally. When do you think I could’ve asked it? Maybe the conversation would’ve gotten to a different place if they started to think about that
@@veganpowerlab I have always asked this question after I ask if they have any animal companions (aka pets) the conversations can get quite lively !
@@jjradV that’s a very good one. It works really well after pets
@@veganpowerlab if they are not someone, then what are they, a thing, an object ? Most people seem to get stuck and cross and just blurt out ,they are animals ! It definitely changes the whole conversation.
I always enjoy your vegan outreach, you are easy to talk to and you definitely get people thinking !
Excellent vegan outreach !
Thank you for holding them accountable !
They are fully aware of the cruelty they are participating in and were very triggered when you called them out. Well done.
They must now live as hypocrites.
Yeah. It almost feels like this was the beginning for them. They now are aware of their hypocrisy. Hope they maintain the awareness and, maybe if they see a cube, maybe they’ll think twice, since they would see the horrors and know they participate in it. 💚🤗
Aaarrrghhhh Cip! Arrrrgghhh!!! I feel the same frustration as you. Some people just aren't very empathetic, are they? Seems like it ran in the family here, as well. You did your best and you know that. Some people will receive the message better than others, and through those people we will create change. You never know, they may have a change of heart after this conversation when they're not so defensive. Thank you thank you thank you, for speaking up on behalf of animals 💚💚💚
I think they’ll remember the conversation, and hopefully will see the video to hear themselves out lout.
They agreed on consent, including for animals and then proceeded in defending animal cruelty. Cognitive dissonance.. 🤗💚
5 and a half minutes of saying exactly the things in line with vegan philosophy, and then when the word "Slaughterhouse" is brought up it just completely freezes the brain.
I just dont understand people like this. I went vegan overnight in 2015 after seeing one Slaughterhouse video.
Thanks for your work man! Vegan future
Same here it's really hard to understand. I think maybe they dont ever watch slaughterhouse footage. They wont really give it a chance.
I didn't even need the slaughter video, I just needed it explained
Just have to chime in after watching the whole vid and say, Your awesome sir!!!! You cut no corners in this dialogue and hopefully planted some seeds!!!!
I hope so too. I made sure that when they left they knew they are responsible. If they see a cube afterwards, they might actually change.
Thanks for watching and for the support 💚🤗
Damn, they were not very open but you had a great talk anyway I think! Great video😄 I watched the end and want to tell you - don't be shy explaining supply&demand when it comes to "what are we gonna do with all these animals if we went vegan??" I believe alot of people miss thinking about their personal responsibility in that moment. If you explain it with supply&demand also in the end, they will understand the "phasing out" point we have about the "billions of animals going wild", and hopefully, they will also feel much more responsible for their "part" of it - I sure did, actually😅👌 Thank you!💚
20:55 she would vote to stop people murdering and stop people being racist or exist or even kicking dogs. But it's wrong for u to speak up only because she is the perpetrator when it comes to exploiting farm animals
Yeah.. she did seem like she wanted to avoid any responsibility in the matter
Great work, but, instead of responding to her nonsense, you should had pointed out her first answers about consent.
Ask her why she changed her views.
Also, when she critisized your activism, just say "why are you concerned about my ways when you are still paying for this?".
Just a bit of advice.
Amazing work brother!
Thank goodness we have people like this man spreading moral decency and critical thinking on the street.
Thank you so much 🙏🤗
once again when confronted with the topic of veganism people get their backs up in dumbed down defence❣
That was a brilliant outreach , how annoying was the mother who had the audacity to try and correct you .
It gets harder and harder to put up with these people imo .The vystopia is difficult to cope with sometimes.
I get it, Martin! But, we stay positive. After all, even if these people didn’t get pushed on the vegan scale, I think something happened there.
I think that they started to realize the hypocrisy. It’s a beginning…
Thanks you so much, Martin! You were also there in the premiere 🤗💚🤗💚
@@veganpowerlab yes , we must stay positive, the more seeds planted the better , that's how forests grow .
Roughly 18:45 - The i don't care what other people do excuse.
Which flies completely in the face of the whole concent line of reasoning which she was dead against.
Exactly! Seems like all rationale get’s thrown out the window when it comes to stopping animal exploitation
I like the idea of framing it as a social experiment. I think when you reveal you are doing vegan activism it may help them feel you didn’t trick them by telling them something like: “The goal of my social experiment is to examine effect of asking people to reflect on their moral values prior to a conversation on veganism.” This is an interesting field of study with published research, so you aren’t misleading people by saying you are collecting data for a social experiment.
That’s a very good point, Nick! That’s something good to explain
I wouldn’t mention veganism though. Just tell them that the goal is to reflect on their own morals
@@veganpowerlab Sure, I think as long as you maintain that it is a “social experiment” when you debrief them they (hopefully) won’t feel tricked. But really dishonest people like these two will find a way to be triggered no matter what you say. 😓
They do anything to avoid their responsibility and the feeling of guilt
harmony, not hierarchy
So selfish they are eh Cip? They can say they are against animal abuse & still try hard to justify why they contribute to the worst abuse. Very hard to deal with this reasoning 😞
Indeed. Selfish behavior especially because they tried to directly attack my activism, not the message. How dare I question their choices…
Thanks Cip for doing your best with two difficult, hypocritical people who are clearly unable to empathize with others. As soon as the victim is different than what they had in mind they immediately contradicted their clear answers. I think this new approach is very promising but human selfishness is a powerful obstacle no matter what approach one takes with outreach.
Seems like it. But, I do think they’ll remember the conversation and perhaps they will reflect upon it. I don’t know. That’s why at the end I made sure that they don’t leave without clearing it up that they are responsible.
If they see a cube after this, maybe they’ll remember the words.
Thanks for watching 🤗💚
It is sad we have this indoctrinated wall up. We are often not only being "not connected" to these animals, but disconnected. And not just because "they are not pets" as she explained - we are also made to think about farmed animals very differently, we are removed yes, but we are next to that taught to think of them more like mindless machines at times, than living beings. We are made to think about "their purpose" differently. Ilogical, and inconsistant with everything else we do and want as a "compassionate" species for sure.. Vegan, because ofc💚
"Unfortunately that is how life is".... easy to say when you're the not the victim.
Exactly!
This video should be shown in schools to teach what cognative dissonance looks like.
Their morals and actions did not align and so instead of aligning they start justifying their behaviour no matter how inconsistent their logic is, as long as they feel good about themselves.
Exactly! I do think that the girl would’ve been more open minded if her mom hadn’t intervened
Vegan for the animals 💗💗💗💗
Very well done! I love this strategy! Thank you for pushing it through the developmental stages for us to learn from! The Vegan Jesus has arrived and He is Cip!😂😉
Interrupting Cip was so on point, hoping other people go vegan is about saving animals not "because we are" - such an arrogant statement by non vegans to suggest otherwise.
I only noticed it hearing back. From now on I’ll pay attention to it, to try and correct it.
Veganism is not about vegans, it’s about the animals.
🤗💚
Excellent job staying calm and articulate when you had two people getting really feisty. Ironically, i was thinking that the reason why mom was angry about your "social experiment " approach is bcz she feels what they "consented" to was a social experiment and she felt what you were doing was not what they consented to. Too funny.
Yeah. I mean, it was a social experiment after all. I really was curious why people can understand consent for people, but not for animals. Like, it’s easy: they also have free will.
Anyway, thank you so much 🙏🤗💚
Funny how the mom just randomly got triggered and started trying to tell you how to do your activism. Can't stand when carnists think they know how to fight for animals rights when they themselves are prop animal cruelty. Hopefully these ladies open their minds up one day
Indeed. It was a ridiculous position that they took. And, they didn’t even have good points. Like, they were complaining I was talking to them on the street and suggested I go to where people eat? Wtf.. like, why would they like it more in that situation…
She is Polish - z pomyślunkiem XD She felt tricked - but if this trick didn't reveal their hipocrisy they would probably laugh and said: you got me. They are angry because they realized they pay for animal abuse...
Thanks for translating. Yeah, next time I’ll mention some things before so that they don’t feel tricked.
@@veganpowerlab The translation of this Polish word "z pomyślunkiem" is: done with thought. She was trying to suggest you to think more about the way you approach people. My private opinion: you didn't do anything wrong. She was angry because you used her own words against her and as a result she realized she was a hypocrite.
They know zero about how to talk about changing someone, far less affective than yourself.
Excuses were rampant as soon as consent turned to animals.
You handled this very well even with all the pushback! I think you did better in this more than you realize.
Thank you so much. Yeah, I was wondering how did I lose them. They seemed to understand consent, and also for animals. But, somehow were still defending the cruelty that they go through.. cognitive dissonance at its finest
@@veganpowerlab Yeah you did great. I think there's something called normalization process in psychology. Maybe we need more education on this. Where something that shouldnt be normal becomes normal over time. Like a woman loving a man thats abusive to her etc.
Im picturing you asking these questions in lets say a middle eastern country where people are fine with executing non-straight people. It would probably go exactly the same as this interview with the two ladies. They would first agree that we need to treat everyone in a good way and so on, but when you bring up homosexuals how would that then go?
13:30 might makes right
Roughly 7:30 - Iron Deficiency.
Its a common myth that you need "red meat" for iron.
There are so many better sources of Iron out there, particularly better to have a source that isnt a Class 2 carcinogen.
I know multiple people in just the past year who have been hospitalised with iron deficiencies, all of them on the meat heavy standard western diet.
5 minutes on a search engine and you'll know everything you need to know about Iron, but basically dark green leafy vegetables, pepitas (pumpkin seeds) and whatever else you like.
And make sure to have high vitamin C so you can absorb the iron.
Exactly! But she did say she could supplement it and didn’t comment on it. So, maybe that’s something she would be open to.
It’s the rest of the things that she defends that make no sense..
Cip (I hope I spelt your name correctly), you are an amazing activist and it was brilliant how you ensured you did not let the couple get away with the nonsense they were saying when their defensiveness was triggered.
This type of people are the most difficult and infuriating people to talk to who actually aren’t very compassionate and lack humility
Well done Cip, the Netherlands is difficult . Most have very little intelligence.
For a start like here they often speak at least two languages fluently
I don’t think it’s a thing of the country. After all, these two were tourists. I think that most people everywhere suffer from cognitive dissonance
You're right, cognitive dissonance is the better term. I was referring to all of Europe. Intelligence is a very complex subject.
I do think that smart intelligent people go vegan. 😊
The mom was particularly callous with her apathy. Heartless women
Indeed. Thanks for watching 💚🤗
I'm not sure how I got here, but that was an interesting discussion that went on just a bit too long. I wouldn't call it "heated" by any stretch. Overall respectful and not too inflammatory or accusatory, but you could tell the exact moment you were both sick of each other, lol. That's a pretty neat way to do activism and I can see how it would plant some seeds for thought. Must be pretty hard to stay kind when most of the world doesn't agree with something you feel so passionately about. You did really great, though.
I find the idea of veganism intriguing in a philosophical way, like "what an interesting thought exercise". Though I have been making gradual changes to reduce our household's reliance on animal-based food, it's definitely more of a health- and cost-based decision and a means to make OUR lives better. Ultimately I don't view using animals for our benefit as morally wrong and I'm not sure what it would take for me to ever change that view. All that said, seeing things like this definitely has me thinking more about it!
Great content. You do outreach incredibly well & your channel is criminally undersubscribed.
I shared this video on Twitter b/c it's so good.
The main girl in the video got do triggered because you shot down every argument with logic & facts.
Great to be on the same side as you 👊
Omg, such nice words. And nice of you to share it. Thank you so much! I appreciate you! 🤗💚
@@veganpowerlab very welcome, man. Will share more in the future
It's really interesting when folks say "unfortunately" as if it refers to the luck of the draw and it's out of their control when the complete inverse is true and the supply only exists because of demand
That’s such a good point. It’s another way of absolving themselves of any responsibility… because if they knew their responsibility in the matter, then they would feel guilty and be faced with having to change
@@veganpowerlab John Rawls' thought experiment of 'the best of all possible worlds' applies well to the same thing. To summarize it, you imagine you've not yet been born and there's a veil of ignorance preventing you from knowing anything about yourself or circumstances and asks how you would set up society if you have an equal chance of being born as anyone in that society. Including non-human animals in the thought experiment is a really effective way to cut through to the victims perspective and eliminates the "Luck of the draw" element because everything is equally as likely. "Unfortunately it is the way it is" doesn't cut the mustard from the perspective of a victim who never had a choice.
Edit: the theory was actually from Leibniz, but Rawls has an interesting take on it
You did well my friend, very inspiring 🙏
Thank you so much 🙏🤗
Thanks vegan power lab!
Haha, at them being critical...yeah Cip doesbt do shouting, he does conversations and intellect...
Different strokes for different folks.
Logic and Compassion must be a bridge too far for them i suppose.
Generational Conditioning....better ignore the facts and go with the majority aye?
Exactly! And, it was sad to see it happen on such a young person. But, I believe that if her mom hadn’t interrupted the conversation in the first place, she would’ve reflected more.
Thanks for everything, djcat 🤗💚
Thank your for your hard work and patience. I learn by watching the way you craft your arguments and maintain your calm. More power to you.
I feel like the cognitive dissonance was too strong for her that she felt really uncomfortable, which turned into anger, which turned into putting up a giant wall. Hopefully she would reflect on these points and go vegan.
I hope she will look into it! She def got triggered, which may spark something
This is a very interesting conversation! I like the way you introduced yourself to the public.
Jesus, that escaleted at the end :D
Yeah. It did
Cognitive dissonance, that's all it is. Google it girls!
Indeed! And a strong cognitive dissonance
Fantastic outreach 💚💚💚💚
She was hilarious 😂. It's great how she tried her hardest to justify what she started off defending
When she says “ I wouldn’t tell my mum not to eat meat” she contradicts her statement early when she said you should tell people not to abduct others if everyone else was doing it.
Roughly 13:40 Triangle of Life 😮 that AI Art.
I thought it was a circle, now it's a triangle...
Haha.. yeah. On this one I actually had to do some work myself, not just AI. But, it works!
Weird indeed that she called it a triangle. My guess was that she was maybe trying to refer to a pyramid of food and her information got entangled in her head
@@veganpowerlab the food pyramid, triangle, circle ...thing 😅
You are really good! Keep up the work. You are great at calmly discussing based on facts.
Thank you so much! I am just generally a calm person. Some people do get under my skin, though 🙏🤗
Thank God most people are not like this.
Indeed. Her cognitive dissonance became strong when the mother intervened
I like your outreach ❤
Glad you enjoy it 🤗💚
I don’t know why it’s so fascinating for me to watch these videos and see these folks coming up with outrages and silly excuses to justify their actions. The meat eaters I respect are the ones who just say the truth. “ I like meat” without some obtuse justifications.
I'm speechless at these reactions of these animal cruelty supporters.
You tried. Maybe if she was alone you could have got somewhere with her... her mom almost pulled her away
That’s how it felt to me too. Like, she was getting it, but then her mom intervened and she sided with her mom’s point of view
I wouldn't have done the hard turn into talking about slaughterhouses. I would've first started talking about wild animals, than maybe feral domestic animals. Seen how she responds. Than you could isolate the speciesism fromt he defense of meat eating, which I believe are different things.
I mean, your argument basically puts picking up any animal and taking them somewhere on the level of doing the same to a human.
Well, is it really that different to restrict the liberty of a human, vs an animal?
@@veganpowerlab it’s very different to people to go from a hypothetical crime against a human to the most entrenched and defended use of animals there is.
I never said it was a leap to go from human to animal, You did not read my comment correctly. If you JUST want people to compare the treatment of humans and animals you go from human to dog/chimp, not human to the meat industry.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
How about you go convince a lion to become vegan, or maybe stand in front of a hungry one and hope it asks for your concern before sending you to the afterlife... It's only cruel if you're just doing it for fun, but if it's to survive then it's the cycle of life
Well, you always have an option. So, then, why do you make the choice to kill animals for food?
Since it’s not for survival, cause you could survive and thrive on plants and plant based foods
The latest live stream is lost?
Nono.. it’s there czcams.com/users/livebuKlvW__18Y
@@veganpowerlab oh, thx. I am still getting confused with these playlists.
I would have just walked away and enjoyed a huge meal with lots of meat.
triggered
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus for sure. Triggered that hunger. Imma eat now because you just triggered that hunger now. A big ol' sloppy burger with fries. Have fun eating grass.
@@markthurst9751 triggered
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus I already told you I agree with you. why say it again?
Creepy as hell approaching women and using a kidnapping and sexual assault analogy to attempt to convert them to veganism.
- A happy, healthy omnivore.
these are adults. are you forgetting that people are free to leave the interaction at any time?
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus Most normal people consider it rude to walk away from somebody who is engaging them and are uncomfortable doing so. That’s what these kinds of street evangelists count on. They should have disengaged and walked away.
@@leeretaschen231 "normal" people disengage all the time, when they are not interested in continuing the conversation. these women are not shrinking violets, by any stretch. "normal" people are aware of polite and also impolite ways of disengaging. you are triggered, so you are bent on trying to find fault with the message and its delivery. you would like to distract yourself from the issue of animal use.
I would have loved to have the discussion with you. My mother is a vegetarian and my gf is aswel. But I am not. I feel like i have a pretty good perspective from both sides.
Not gonna type all my arguments bc it’s too much. But my opinion boils down to this: meat should be available for consumption. However i do think it shouldn’t be the norm to eat meat every day. Also i think the people who eat meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal them selfs.
As it gives them/us perspective on how the meat gets on your plate. You could see the living animal be killed and bleed. Which doesn’t look pretty. But that is why we should see it. Too many people want meat as much as they can. But aren’t willing to see how the meat got on their plates. Which i think is self censorship. Which leads to a polarized view to people’s meat opinion.
Also the mass production is not okey. The animals are going through awful circumstances.
Also i think it is completely normal for humans to eat meat since we are omnivores. Literally thousands of years of evolution has lead to that. We all would probably not have existed if it wasn’t for animal consumption.
Also I think if we all ate a lot less meat. The animals would receive a much better live (ofc bc of the supply/demand and the existing facilities) before they are fucking killed for my yummy dinner😋
(Sorry had to put some funny shit in it. And i know most of the people who’ll read this won’t think it is funny. But I do think it is funny)
Okey since i have made an entire bible on why i stand by my opinion. I would be open to further opening the discussion. The only thing i ask is for my opposing side to be open for an opinion that does not 100% correlate to yours. As I will be doing the same.
Last thing: I support the vegan community and i think it is really beautiful and selfless to not eat meat. It shows a kind of empathy that is trans-species. And i support that choice 100%. Good for you.
What do you think veganism is?
@@veganpowerlab i think veganism is not using any sort of animal based product. So no leather hand bags etc.
@@Ytcomntsrtb and why do you think we do that?
@@veganpowerlab wow sorry for my late reply. Kinda forgot.
Anyway. I think most of you (not everyone has the same motive) do it because of environmental or anti animal cruelty reasons. Also it is not necessary for survival in this day in age, as there are many supplements and replacements for meat, and meat based products.
I would love to proceed this conversation. As i hope to reach an understanding from both sides. Even if it is just a tiny bit. And if not, that is also fine. We could never all have the same opinion.
This is not a valid argument. If you're so keen on consent where do you get it when you eat fruits and veggies?
They are not sentient
Gross
It disgusts me that most of the comments under this video are in support of the video creator when he is so disingenuous.
He tries to act respectful but is seeking aspects of the people he talks to with the goal of undermining rather than encouraging the good things alongside education for improvement.
Never a good word for being pescatarian, which is already a greater effort than most and shows some manner of effortful thought on the subject. And worse... zero empathy for iron deficiency issues; launching straight into supplements which some people do not do well with or do not trust for reasons individual to their biology (context for this assertion: I live with someone who reacts badly to 80% of brands).
What's more, he says he Googled the fact about trees and found 0 references to what she is talking about, but if you look up "do trees save other dying trees" there are tons of articles immediately available about fungal systems networking roots and nutrients to keep dying trees alive. It is by no means any evidence for plant sentience, but lying about the existence of facts to push your point/agenda is really not a good approach.
Suffice it to say that I am deeply unimpressed by how the political agenda overpowered philosophical discourse in this video.
It’s interesting that it came across like that to you, but let me clarify some things to you.
First, I don’t seek to undermine anyone. I seek to stay on the path of talking about animals. Being a pescatarian is in no way better if you do it for yourself. I asked her why she was a pescatarian. Her intent wasn’t to minimize harm, but rather to think about herself more. So, there is no difference between that and any other person. She still sees animals as objects to pick and choose who to kill and who not. So, why exactly should I applaud that?
As for deficiencies, I asked directly about the supplements. I’m not there to feel sorry for them, I’m there to defend animals. So, I didn’t want to get into nutrition. Just, wanted to clear it up.
About the trees thing. I just couldn’t find the source. Seems like you did. Props to you. Does it change the narrative? No. Did you decide to focus on one thing and completely ignore all the other sources I provided? Yes!
And, why is it that you defend her, but not me? Could it be because you relate to her more? Could it be that her narrative speaks to you? Are you a pescatarian? Is that it?
As for “political agenda”, I was there to try to get them to reflect on the victims of their choices. There is no politics there and don’t try to make it about politics just to excuse your exploitation of animals.
@veganpowerlab It's abundantly clear that you didn't even try to find it on Google, but presented to your audience that you did. I wasn't going to defend anyone until I saw that.
I typically stay away from this debate since I think it generally has to skip a lot of other philosophical discussion first, but I draw a line when I see what appears to be outright lies and deception.
The fact it took me 2 seconds to find but you say you tried to find it and couldn't changes the narrative for me since you try to present yourself with a sense of trust and cooperative nature.
I'm not sure about ignoring your sources since I've not said any of those were true or false. I'm sure you did the homework on your side, but you didn't do it on the other side. Which is fine...but you claimed that you did. That's what bothers me.
Anyway, you say you are all about discussing the harm caused to the victims of animal exploitation and you've implied that it makes a difference to make dietary choices as a means of harm reduction, so I can try to engage even though the topic goes very deep since you're actually engaging with my comment (I'm impressed that you didn't simply delete it).
I would ask how you define harm.
Is harm equal for all animals and all humans or is it in proportion to sentience?
@GhostRider-ce3eb Who said plants have feelings too? I don't think we have anywhere near enough evidence to make wild claims like that!
@GhostRider-ce3eb She uses some weird arguments. Especially the one at the end about cannibalism during the Cold War.
Apparently that actually happened in Russia but that can't be compared and, even if it could, it doesn't make anything right.
The vegan says 'oh i cant stop you' as if the only thing stopping him is the law, and if that was removed then he would happily stop you. Any vegan that even tries to stop me from eating meat will regret it for the rest of their life.
I think you missed the point there, buddy
@@veganpowerlab i dare you
@@asdf1991asdf No, you are definitely missing the point here. What he is saying is that it simply isn't possible or practical for vegans to run around after people, policing what they eat for the rest of their lives. There is absolutely nothing he can do to stop you, aside from having a conversation and trying to reason with people, so that the vegan movement slowly grows enough to the point where eating meat becomes socially frowned upon. There is absolutely no implication of physical restraint or violence...
@Argon-Matt eating meat is fine and is back in vogue after decades of elite demonisation and propaganda. Meat is the species' appropriate food. Veganism is beyond ignorant of the bigger picture of regarding environment, human health, society, and nature. It is a misreading of life and our role within it