Vegetarian fights back against vegan
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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TODAY'S VIDEO:
In today's video I sit down with Sahil at the University of Texas at Austin. Sahil argues his stance as a vegetarian and states that there isn't a strong argument to change to veganism. He also challenges me on pushing the morals of veganism on others.
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ABOUT ED:
Ed Winters is a vegan educator, best-selling author, public speaker and content creator. Ed has spoken at over 1/3 of UK universities and at 6 Ivy league colleges, including as a guest lecturer at Harvard University in both 2019 and 2020. He has given speeches across the world, including at the University of Cambridge, EPFL, Google NYC and Google Zürich. In early 2019 he gave 2 TEDx talks, surpassing a total of 2 million views online. His speech “You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again” has 35 million accumulative views online and has been given to thousands of students across UK universities.
Sahil argues his stance as a vegetarian and states that there isn't a strong argument to change to veganism. He also challenges me on pushing the morals of veganism on others. What arguments have you heard from vegetarians before?
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🌱 If you find my work at universities valuable, you can become a regular supporter or make a one-off contribution through the following links (thank you!): earthlinged.org/support & patreon.com/earthlinged
📚 Order my best-selling book This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) here: earthlinged.org/orderbook
🎤 Organise a speech or presentation at your company/education establishment: earthlinged.org/contact
Chimp : Only 2-3% mainIy insects, and occasionally maIes will kiII monkeys. czcams.com/video/bfPlfbR_etQ/video.html .. czcams.com/video/Z4NsMiOMmCY/video.html .. Peer review science !!!!
Wonder why 🤪🦠🍖🔴🐒. Hint hint, World War 1 and II and Vietnam and killing innocent people.... Micro biome is different if you eat animals and their secretions. No fibre, if you eat animals and their secretions.. PH. is different. Peer review science !!!! GoriIIas are plant based they never ever eat animals. 5 times as strong as chimpanzees PH-4 🤪🦠🍖🔴 !!! And they are peaceful, gentle animals. Vegans are kind and thoughtful, PH.7-10 is different, good bacteria, Herbivorous ✅❤️🦠🙂. Peer review science too !!!!
.. Like CharIes Man🖕son. Proxy killing... 👈🤥🍖🔴.... 🙄. Over a burger. 5 minute burger !! Animals life gone for good !! 🤦🏼♂️
Twice a Coooooooo-ward !!!! Hypoooocrite. Big time.
I was a hypocrite. But now I’m vegan. Don’t hurt animals. Simple really. ✅🤷🏼♂️. CZcams delicious vegan food. Time to change.... ✅ czcams.com/video/AVBshy_LevY/video.html ..
.. 6 hours !!!! 🔴🦌🤮 10 days or more sitting inside your stomach puuuu-trifying !!!! No fibre if you eat animaIs in their secretions !!! Time-Iapse. czcams.com/video/lmSrUvgWiqE/video.html ... 🤮.. That’s why I am vegan !!! Your teeth are fIat 😬. And your stomach is very, very long, “combined length of the small and large intestines is at least 15 ft in Iength”. We are herbivores. The ape family ✅❤️😬💪🦍 GorilIas never ever eat animaIs, they are huge !! 98.6% the same as us !!! And I’ve gotten bigger and stronger and fitter on a plant-based diet. Scientific fact !!! Fat deposits cIog the arteries, eating animaIs and their secretions. Deooodorant mask the symptoms but the shoes and socks and armpits.. 🍳🍖🍔...🦠🧟♂️👕🧦🥾🤮.
CZcams deIicious vegan food. It’s time to change ✅😉..
Behavioural ‘omnivores’, is a heart attack and cancer and high blood pressure, fat deposits clog the arteries everywhere, Limp👇🧟♂️🦠🍖🔴Diiick eating Cooorpses 🛏💔🤷♀️🤦♀️ .. czcams.com/video/KK7vFRcB8lk/video.html .. czcams.com/video/XmXynDLkbXY/video.html 😂🤣😂😂
You hurt innocent animals for a 5 minute burger etc ??.
Cutting down the rainforest for cows and chicken etc, over a freaking burger etc. 10 times as much grains 🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾🌾 for one steak 🥩 !!!! That is Eviiil !!!! “Since 1978, over 289,000 square Miles, of Amazon rainforest have been destroyed” czcams.com/video/daeB4XMvZSM/video.html . You can have vegan hamburgers and vegan chicken and vegan pizza and vegan curry and vegan burritos etc. CZcams delicious vegan food. Which side of history are you on ?? Time to change ✅😉
The second you say "vegan", everyone all of a sudden becomes a plant activist.
LOL! Well said!
Funny, I haven't heard about a single "plant rights rally" so it seems those people are actually full of shit!
Believes the preachers-> cult behaviour.
Strongly defends beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Refute science in beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Shares beliefs uninvited-> cult behaviour.
Preaches to vulnerable-> cult behaviour.
Donates to preachers-> cult behaviour.
Politicises group beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Mocks non-believers-> cult behaviour.
Simplifies natural events-> cult behaviour.
Falsely correlates events-> cult behaviour.
Feels superior in beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Beliefs for ‘greater good’-> cult behaviour.
And nutrition experts
If one was truly a plant activist they would be vegan already. The same as if one was an environmentalist they would already be vegan. And if one was a feminist they would already be vegan. And even broader if one was a leftist or progressive they would already be vegan.
Can we please be respectful to this guy? He sat down for a debate being filmed, admitted when his argument wasn't working and engaging and being respectful the entire time? I don't agree with him but I commend him for his effort!
Same!! I am only going on 3 years Vegan, and this guy has been Vegetarian his whole life-Much Respect to that, but I just don't understand why he cannot see the suffering in eggs & dairy, and he feels like it is a such a huge inconvenience to make that last change.....💚💚
@@jenniferk1941 been vegetarian my whole life. Went vegan 2 years ago, trust me, it's not hard at all. U are literally just missing out eggs and milk, not even a big deal. It's literally 2 ingredients.
I was just thinking this! This was such a great discussion, Sahil was so engaged and respectful, and I think these kinds of outcomes really speak to the importance and reach of Ed’s work. It’s all about getting others and ourselves thinking.
Right. He did great!
Super great point and he’s already halfway there. He’ll probably go vegan soon!
Whenever Ed hears a common statement made by non-vegans: "Sure" "Yeah" "Ok" "Go on"
How is he not tired? THE PATIENCE
@@MilaBelen first he is a true Empath
@@MilaBelenare you saying you don’t have the capacity to listen to people? What patience?? He interrupted him multiple times in this short video.
He's so articulate, rational, and intelligent, yet he was employing his entire capacity to defend his contradictions / cognitive dissonance to the point of irrationality. I was like him, and I seemed to always have crafty pseudo-rational counter arguments for everything people threw against me (even if I knew theirs held more merit). It takes time and a lot of 'intellectual humility' but I think people like him (and myself) can reach a point of re-examination, and ultimately evolution. Went vegan overnight 5.5 years ago after being honest with myself, binging hours footage, looking at statistics, and having a 'moment of clarity', and I've never looked back.
Amen. Same story here. We try to rationalize our actions but it's cognitive dissonance 101.
Agreed.
He was lost in the sauce in his Moral Relativism
Kudos to vegans if that lifestyle works for u, i like this interviewee, my 2cent, ed should practice his endeavor to convert hin much more the world. Just a suggestion, “ur combative, pushy and arrogant, u should put ur plant shoes (i assume) to the interviewee thats how to get in there heads.. this guys destroying ed’s argument, attacking only his morality? When u have conflicting morals.
Ed, have you ever thought about finding those you have spoken with and see if they have changed? I think that would be a great project
I think it’s too soon for that. But it sounds like a good idea
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
I don't think these talks are so much about changing the person Ed is debating, rather than changing the people who are watching his videos, when they find themselves thinking that the respective person Ed is debating is plain wrong.
@@Sir99percent agree, yet I think some may have changed or not and a followup would be interesting. Especially since most that watch Ed's videos are already vegan meaning he's preaching to the choir
@@madnezz1961 Ok, that's fair enough. Although, I wasn't vegan when I started watching Ed's videos (tbf I was on my way there). Ed was the one to give me that last push I needed.
Good grief, Ed! What a great discussion, and great job, Ed. You were able to calmly and respectfully cause another person to re-examine a key component of their own thinking. Amazing!
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel nonstop 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
As you ride a horse..🤨 The irony💀
That's what we all love about him. Calm and collective.
@@original-australian_OG ed is calculated, conniving and insidious and he preys on the emotions of gullible people with well practised virtue signalling.
WHY ARE YOU RIDING A HORSE
No animal wants to be used!!! Jeez, why admiring Ed when you yourself are exploiting animals
Please, stop.
Respect to anyone who steps up and tries to win Ed's primary argument (veganism as a moral imperative). It's a pretty air tight position. Nice to see this fellow reconsider his position - that takes a humility that many don't have.
If you can think, speak and write you are absolutely deadly. If you cant, youre probably just a vegan.
@Ryan Robinett And yet Vegan subsistence is a million times better than omnivorous subsistence. Go vegan.
The vegetarian made a very good point.
@Ryan Robinett Unfortunately for your short sighted argument, it's not possible or practical for me. Cool story though.
Vegamism subsistence is still > than meat subsistence ethically, sorry :)
@@nanashidanny if "possible and practicable" is subjective, any meat eater can be vegan.
This one actually made me laugh out loud. The moral relativity portion is hilarious but the "inconvenience" dialog at 9:22 is just great: "Hello, I would like to sit with you and see if you can change my mind about veganism. However, please note that I will not change my mind because changing my mind requires changing my mind, which I find inconvenient."
That's the problem, in most cases they're not going to Ed to learn and possibly change their minds, they're going to voice their justifications and defend them at all costs
Well eating vegan *CAN* be an inconvenience! Especially for poor working class families. Also people in rural areas where there isn’t viable vegan food/options. You can’t hold your moral standards to everyone. Especially third world countries!
@@ZoeyZoco that would be fair if he had said that, but his "inconvenience" was having to change his mind about morality.
Also, meat is actually a luxury for most of the world. You may be thinking of food deserts where only processed food is available . In third world countries, people still eat mostly grains, vegetables, beans, etc. which are nutritious and cheap staples. Veganism doesn't necessarily mean fake meat. It is definitely possible to avoid meat while making ends meet.
It saddens me that in this day and age people still cling to the "third world countries" excuse, when so many people in third world countries are on plant based diets because they can't afford anything else. Meat-eaters in the west have convinced themselves that surely people in third world countries can't be vegan, and that somehow justifies gorging on burgers.
And wtf is this about rural areas with no viable vegan options - what, rural areas don't have beans now? As someone from a poor family and living in a rural area, I find this fucking insulting that this is used as an excuse. This all hinges on the premise that you're eating OUT or buying pre-made meals, and I have never, ever been able to afford either. I'm sick of all these mythical poor people in rural areas that have the money to pay someone else to prepare their food, because they seem to only exist in discussions where meat-eaters that can afford whatever the fuck they want, but keep using these myths to justify abusing animals for their own pleasure.
True lol
I heard someone say "good isn't something you are, it's something you do" and I realized how true this is. Actions over intentions! 💖
Good one!!! 😁 thank you for sharing 🥰🙏
Intentions matter though. Surely, someone who abstains from animal products because they were forced to will not be very comparable to someone who does so with the freedom to choose otherwise
Same deal goes for all immoral actions
@@Sergio-nb4hj Clearly what I meant was actions that stem from intentions are superior to intentions. Not literally actions that are you randomly doing something. Even though action alone is still a good thing, action with intention is what I was talking about
@@adorable3817 much love 💖
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
Oh that slippery slope where you slide into morality ! So many people, as this guy does, try to avoid thinking through the reality of why it is best to be vegan. Well done Ed.
Ed pushing his morals into others he says is wrong but then says he’s is okay but your is wrong because he kills animals so they don’t eat the vegetables and you are wrong because you kill animals to eat them for nutrition🧢🥱 Ed want corporate veganism than kills more animals and pollutes the earth and caused malnutrition to humans because he wasn’t to sell books and get kickbacks from corporations. Ed wants to oppressing and control people. He wants to hurt others but when he does it he doesn’t feel it’s immoral🤑.
@@lastlime3792 What you just wrote makes zero sense. Try again when you aren't drunk or high on drugs.
@@jean6453 ok he done a bad job doesn't make veganism the objective moral position now🤦
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
@@jimmyobrien8738 Sure it does
I was veg. for 20 years before becoming vegan; and even advocating for animal rights. The video of the animal cruelty has become more accessible and that’s what really reminded me of my purpose. No going back ever. Not on this plane of existence or any other.
J'Adore
As a vegan Hindu, I find it frustrating to find other Hindus who are vegetarian who consume factory farmed dairy and cannot or will not see the suffering that cows go through. Cows are supposed to be sacred and yet they don’t care.
Thank you for being a Vegan Hindu.🌱🐄🌱
@@berniv7375 🙏🏾
I found this weird as a friend who is a vegetarian Hindu. she once she said she would let her vegetarian son try meat sometime if he wanted but not beef because of their belief about cow, yet found it weird that they would have the cheese from the same cow that's being abused and killed for burgers. to me it's a bit like saying I won't have fillet steak for moral reasons but I will have rump steak. its just a different cut from the same animal, and cheese is similar.
@@michaelcolbourn6719 dairy is a big part of our culture and religion. Krishna, one of our gods, used to drink dairy and milk is used in our temples eg for Shiva lingam worship. Ghee or clarified butter is used in ayervedic tradition.
@@shebakali6 just seems hypocritical to not eat beef because cows are sacred and its harming (if I have that Right?) But still eat cheese which is still harming them, and they get killed. Religion is always contradictory though.
When he said his convinince was more important than the sufferingn of others It was over for him, he is the same as omnivores, he is vegetarian just because he was born that way.
I actually thought he raised a good point. He came very close to raising a brilliant point, which is that you’re not just changing your mind, but you’re operating in a meat-eater’s world as a not meat-eater, which can isolate you from family and community.
Ed is okay with suffering of others by dictating others need to eat vegan, and push to remove sale of animals...
@@heyalun so we should conform with whatever society does instead of taking a stand against something that is wrong because we will be isolated? I don't think it's a good point lol.
Greatest good for the greatest number baby!!
@@billyguyjoe1858 but neither he nor Ed subscribed to a religious worldview that says there’s objective morality. And for someone like me that does, my moral code says eating animals is allowable. So, my question would be: what’s your objective basis for telling me it’s wrong?
Always amazes me what mental gymnastics people do just to justify not to change, so sad....
No one is obligated to change anything to satisfy a vegan.
@@evilsdirtylittlesister4299 u don't get it... veganism is not about vegans it is about the animals that you pay for to be tortured and killed...
@@fregger74 only according to vegans but thats a dishonest arguement. Its like saying you buy cars then you support car accidents. Its just stupid.
@@evilsdirtylittlesister4299 lmfao no it isn't. Not even close. It's like saying if you pay someone to drive into another person and kill them, you're supporting car accidents. Which would be true. When you buy animal products, you are DIRECTLY supporting animal abuse. It is not just a byproduct. One of the most ridiculous false equivalences I've ever seen.
@@evilsdirtylittlesister4299 Buying a car doesn't contribute to accidents directly or support them. It only would if you purposely went on the road to cause an accident and that is the intention. But your main intention with a car is not to cause an accident. Nobody in their right mind does that.
So buying a car doesn't automatically increase the amount of car accidents caused nor do you support them with your purchase. Usually the idea is to no cause them in the first place.
But when you buy meat you are buying the meat with the intention for them to get killed and be your food, that is a fact. So you are supporting people killing animals with your purchase by increasing the demand for it.
I've never eaten meat I was born vegetarian and I can say with confidence that switching from vegetarian to vegan is very easy since most of the work is already done just gotta switch your diary to vegan alternatives
The reason why most vegetarians don't go vegan is cheese. It's too addictive
Once you quit it cheese it’s so gross 🤮 Vegan alternatives taste so much more pure, and they don’t stink
For me it was milk and ghee (clarified butter). I never had cheese in my life. Rather was always grossed out by it.
@@gabbe5130 ok but have you smelled daiya cheese straight out of the bag 💀
@@gayfield420It's still better than cow cheese tho
@@ShardstapoRotmg oh you're absolutely right
The "imposing your morality" part is EVERYTHING. I need to learn each line of each video. This is pure gold!!! Thank you so much, Ed. We appreciate a lot.
I actually laughed out loud on that part
Omg. This guy is contradicting himself so badly. The mental gymnastics he tries to employ is sad… as like most others, he’s finding any reason to justify his want of taste and not changing his lifestyle. Great work Ed!! 🙌🏻
Ed said it was morally wrong to force ones morals on to others...that’s what Ed does. Ed also okay harming humans with malnutrition and killing animals that want to eat his vegetable....
@@lastlime3792 worst take I’ve ever heard. Should we be forcing our morals on murderers? Yes because murder is wrong. Same here. You’re infringing on a sentient beings own life. But you don’t like to be told it’s bad? Irony.
@vell But the argument of "taste" is so ridiculous with all the food available today - Just Eggs and all the plant milk varieties, and cultured cheeses using cashews etc. It's simply stubbornness and apathy and fear of being inconvenienced.
A murder is wrong but okay If the animal tries and eats Ed’s vegetable🥱🧢🧦🤤
It's somewhat unsurprising. Most people passively believe things, and when arguing, they tend to start from the conclusion and work backwards into the logic. When you start drilling into your beliefs you're bound to find inconsistency, and that's definitely what these debates are about.
These veganism conversations really shine a light on the weakness of humans. We cling to convenience so much that this guy is actually embarrassed by the way he thinks and STILL won’t give it up. It’s not even subconscious. He’s verbally acknowledging that he sounds horrible. But he doesn’t want to “see eggs and go the other way.” I’m going to spend the rest of my life fighting my own inner weakness and cognitive dissonance.
Well said 💙🌳🦋🌟💛
Believes the preachers-> cult behaviour.
Strongly defends beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Refute science in beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Shares beliefs uninvited-> cult behaviour.
Preaches to vulnerable-> cult behaviour.
Donates to preachers-> cult behaviour.
Politicises group beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Mocks non-believers-> cult behaviour.
Simplifies natural events-> cult behaviour.
Falsely correlates events-> cult behaviour.
Feels superior in beliefs-> cult behaviour.
Beliefs for ‘greater good’-> cult behaviour.
@@evilsdirtylittlesister4299 what on earth are you talking about?
@@Killerkiki313 i would say the cult of animal exploiters
Me too kiki, me too.
Wow, i didn't expect the ending. Props to him for acknowledging his holes in his argument. Ed is such a great activist/speaker/debater.
Also crucial is that the interviewee is not too insecure to admit he was wrong.
The tolerance you have when you see their facial expression that says “wait…I’m really not making sense but no one has ever really made me face it”….beautiful.
At the end he looked as if this conversation was going to replay over and over in his head until he came to the conclusion that eggs and dairy weren't worth it. I feel like you really concluded at the perfect time for his personal evolution to take place. Very good.
Nah dud, he flat out stated "my convenience and happiness is means more than the suffering and death of an animal." Once your brain is in that territory it's virtually over., there's no coming back.
@@AtCar3 nahh, i don't think so - I was there once as well and I'm well over a year into veganism 🌱
You're either a nihilist (which makes debating rather pointless by definition) or you'll lose a debate against a well educated and eloquent vegan, simple as that. There is literally no argument against veganism I've encountered in my 3 years of research. But you can't blame people for ignorance so keep debating! Socrates put it really well: "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."
With knowledge comes responsibility
Yeah, I mean there's not much to argue about in the first place. The reasons for not being vegan are not much different than reasons for note being anything else. And that reason is usually just lack of care and interest. For example I'm not a golfer because I just don't really care about it enough. For the same reason I'm not vegan. I care about other things more. That's pretty much how everyone is.
Are you arguing for morality been unchangeable from individuals so everyone has to agree on the same morals that is what Kim jong UN does to his population, he has decided on the morals and everyone must agree or get executed
@@MarkoMood With the difference, of course, that 'not golfing' doesn't have any negative consequences. It's fine if you don't golf, because that's not making anyone suffer. Not being vegan _does_ have very real negative effects. The analogy breaks down pretty quickly.
@@MarkoMood yeah, that really is the argument. You can’t make a logically consistent moral argument for veganism, unless the person is Buddhist or something like that. What you have to appeal to is emotion. So, if the person doesn’t care, you either have to try to convince them to care or you have nothing
I used to be a big meat, eggs and dairy lover. Then I discovered the atrocities these industries inflict upon animals and went vegan overnight. I also really enjoy food now, eating is a pleasure and my health skyrocketed. Never going back.
I stopped eating meay over night from Joey and his videos, and watching Doninion, I don't think i can give up milk though, but been a year and a half on meat still rocking, eat what ever i want other then meat and still my size and feel healthy, and i still hardly eat just plants lol, just a mind set for me
isn't the food more beautiful too wtih colors!!
@@adamm1633 there's nice options out there for milk - like Ripple pea milk and oat milks. Those're what I drink. I don't see how you can't not give up milk with so many options. If you don't like those they even have plant milk powders. You can always get your calcium from greens if that's the worry and protein from legumes and grains. Or just make your own. I take sunflower seeds and water and blend and drink. It's super cheap, no refrigeration, and tastes really great. I don't even strain it - so I can eat what I drink - something you won't get in milk - but you can strain it too!
@@extropiantranshuman yes, it's so colorful and so delicious, it tastes bettter, it's healthier, it's just amazing. I love cooking and I love food now haha. Also sorry for the question but I noticed you say to the other person in this thread that you blend sunflower seeds with water: does that give you a beverage similar to milk? Or something entirely different? I've been meaning to start having sunflower seeds and that sounds like an amazing way to integrate them. Thank you in advance and sorry for the sudden question 🙇
@@NeneChan203 feel free to ask whatever questions you want. Yes, it's a replacement for milk - except it tastes like you're drinking the sun! I do this with hazelnuts too - for a hazelnutty taste. Hazelnuts, if you use less water - makes a great sour cream - because it's slightly sour. Walnuts are really sweet surprisingly - and don't work as well for sour cream.
Lovely conversation, I'm happy to see people like Sahil constantly thinking and and evolving through discussions and experiences
Did the guy just say at around minute 7 (the vegetarian), that basically if any change in your life takes more than zero effort, even if it's beneficial, he won't do it? Man, we are doomed if everyone was like that in practice. Fortunately it's just something he says, and it's not true in practice.
Honestly the ending of the conversation shows he's open. A lot of times we argue from a place we never did any preparation for and its because we never considered a lot of the arguments people like Ed raised in the first place. A lot of vegan arguments come from a place of passion, i.e. their heart is in the right place but it's not necessarily going to reach most people.
Yes, he did. He then proceeded to change his entire moral stance on relativism lmao
I don't think he really thinks like that. He's grasping at straws when he says that. You can tell he doesn't believe it as he says it.
@@MrJSheppy16 yeah, it really felt like he was introduced to the concept of moral relativism in college and was "experimenting" with positioning himself as one but eventually will encounter enough sound counter-arguments to change his position. Seems like this is probably the first of many.
Actually, here you're kind of wrong. Most people do NOT want to change. People are born malicious and not being a carnist, a racist or doing something otherwise "immoral" would mean suppression of internal instincts.
I am vegan because I suppressed mine, doesn't mean others will do the same.
i love that this one goes beyond the regular handful of arguments!
It starts off with "plants are sentient" so I hope you adjusted your expectations 😂
@@DuelingPeaks Yes but other than most people he acutally knows something about the sentience of plants and he clearly knows that it's a bit of a complicated issue while for non-human animals it's very clear that they are sentient in a way way closer to our human sentience.
This guy actually had a couple of good points, in my opinion. I haven’t had meat in almost 2 decades and animal products in 5 years. That’s alienated me from others to some extent. And I’m not even vegan. I’ve looked for non-animal options for clothes, particularly suits and shoes. That stuff is inconvenient. I’m honestly not sure it’s worth it if it was just about animals.
Going against the grain is a huge cost
@@heyalun What's the issue with suits? Wool?
@@hannahmitchell87 for vegans, it’s wool, which exploits animals. For me I sweat in them and they stink in the summer. I don’t like leather because it also stinks and I don’t want to wear a cow’s skin. All of my choices are selfish. I think meat and other animal products are inferior food choices health wise and bring violence into my body.
Ed really roped this one in. How he remains so composed while people blither out these ridiculous justifications is amazing to watch. Thanks Ed. You are making a difference!
As a vegan I often wonder why vegetarians draw the line where they do.
This vegetarian doesn't seem to know either🥴🥴
He said he’s only really vegetarian because he was raised that way and that he just doesn’t bother to change.
I’m vegetarian because I believe you can get milk and dairy ethically
@@janelolita7890 how? How can you take a baby from a mother and slaughter both in the end 'ethically'?
@@ayyowassup I didn't write that comment but in my opinion there are very few cases in which drinking milk wouldn't be morally wrong. If it excludes the points you mentioned then it can be morally right. Like the cow, goat or sheep got pregnant naturally, lives more or less wild or with a lot of space, the baby isn't taken away and the animal is not killed in the end and you only take very little. If you drink milk only in those occasions it will probably be a very rare experience, but some people would still consider that being vegetarian and not vegan
@@sarahhenning5484 On what fucking planet would that scenario arise? 😂
Another point here that is often missed is that eating from plants does not necessarily always kill the plants. For example, fruits are the reproductive body of a plant that bears seeds. An animal taking the fruit does not kill the plant, but is actually desired by the plant (especially in nature) as defecation will position these seeds elsewhere for a new plants to grow. This is a huge consideration when trying to "draw the line" of sentience.
Plant doesn’t want to be eaten... that’s why they are poison and have thorns... 🙄
However that argument can be used against veganism as well. Animals need other animals to eat them to create a balanced ecosystem. So by that logic we could also be eating some animals (aka just do hunting, no animal farming, only some elite few humans would eat those animals and under very strict guidelines), and it wouldn't be morally wrong bc we are contributing to a balanced ecosystem. Sounds kinda ridiculous right. So many problems ride up with this way of thinking. So, it's not about what the plants have evolved to be and how they are supposed to be spread and stuff. It's simply about the conscience and individual experience that animals have. That's the important thing.
@@triptripp1873 I don't see how this is the same argument. An animal doesn't "need" the be eaten, it needs to survive, which last I checked is what this thing called "life" is all about. By that logic - do you, as an animal, need to be eaten too? I guess you would want to be eaten right, you know, for the sake of a balanced ecosystem.
@@triptripp1873 and who decides who are the humans worthy of eating animal products?? who decides what humans are ''elite''?? does race play a part in this? money? if its money then, as its become obvious in our age, ''elite'' people, wealthy people dont care about balance, moderation or any of those things, its usually because of that, that they become ''elite''... this doesnt seem like a good argument at all, not only because of that, but because ecosystems tend to balance themselves, without any human intervention, so there wouldnt be any reason to interfere with natural proceses. also... neutering exists, if we are so concerned about certain animals growing their population too much, we could neuter them.
I was going to write that.. well said ☺️
Less than 3 minutes in and this guy believes some people don't need to eat. 😂
Words don't do justice, to how much I appreciate what you do. I'm beyond grateful and humbled. There's billions of things I love about you, but my 2 favorites would be, how methodically intellectually calm and collective you are, an astute genius. And how respectful you are towards your guests.
PS- Hope you enjoy my donation. My love to this community as well.
This guy was super reasonable. I actually accepted his point about the inconvenience of transitioning to veganism. It can be a 'big deal' for people. It was for me and I felt I had to research and research before I took the plunge. I think this guy's gonna turn. I think Ed got to him. 👏
But then the contest is between my convenience and someone's life. Hardly a fair comparison.
He was intelligent, but not at all reasonable.
I’ve never heard of someone actually saying that inconvenience is worse than death. I know many people act that way, but they feel bad about it because they don’t actually believe it. You’d have to be an actual sociopath to really think you’re allowed to choose to prioritize your personal convenience.
" we have to eat something not someone "
Wow - that exchange on the imposing of morality. Really well done Ed! I am about to upload my latest street interviews with a vegetarian as well, and I also find sometimes those conversations can be more challenging but worthwhile. Cheers!
This community, and people like you, give me hope. Do you have a channel we can check out ?
@@original-australian_OG thank you so much! I personally was at my wits' end and felt like the best thing I could do to help was make a channel. This account / channel is the one I use (That Vocal Vegan) ☺️
I've seen a hundred of these and even now am still blown away by Ed's capacity to listen at length, not interrupt (!!), not get angry, and resist slipping in insults or personal attacks. I can barely do those things discussing benign topics of everyday life, much less while talking about veganism. And yet it's the *only* way to get people to rethink their animal worldview. He's such a great role model for civilized discourse.
This was one of my favorites. He clearly was influenced by this debate. He seems like a nice young man who has been raised in a culture that is overwhelmingly vegetarian. Unfortunately dairy cows live some of the worst lives within the animal agriculture industry. Vegetarians can be very persistent in believing they are doing enough. Most have no clue what the egg and dairy industries look like. Great debate!
You got to understand the transitioning is hard
Every time I hear you, Ed, speak, I question myself about my own intelligence. Thank you for keeping me questioning myself because that makes me want to better myself everyday.
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
I was a vegetarian "for the animals" all my life, the second I learned the truth about the milk and egg industries at age 29, I went vegan overnight. There is absolutely no excuse to consume animal products with all the inevitable horrors that come with said consumption.
Something similar happened to me. Once I learned how animals suffer due to the dairy and egg industries, I literally went vegan that day and never looked back.
@@linds7788 i was vegetarian for 20 years while knowing the horror of the dairy and egg racket. That's how long it took me to kick pizza.
Facts. If you're vegetarian for moral reasons, then you should be vegan. This dude is clearly only vegetarian because he was raised as such. If he was raised in a different family, he'd be eating steak and using the same excuses he used here.
@@DuelingPeaks vegetarianism is a step towards reducing the harm you inflict on animals. The same as veganism. It's not a bad thing. As a vegan, there is more that YOU can do to reduce the harm you inflict on animals and humans.
@@waynemongo It's better than eating meat 3 times a day, sure, but it still causes suffering and funds the same industries. Veganism is still morally preferable.
If someone came to me and they wanted to ease into being vegan, and they asked "what is worse, meat or dairy?". I kind of feel like dairy is worse in terms of animal suffering. Because a dairy cow becomes a beef cow after about 6 years, and a beef cow gets slaughtered after 3ish years. So, you're just making a cow suffer rape and torture for three years until it eventually gets killed for meat eaters. You're still contributing to it dying, you're just not eating the flesh. Plus...people argue that animals eat other animals in the wild (which is dumb yes)...but no animal rapes other animals to drink their milk...
That's a great point actually... prolonged suffering. I'll steal that thought ;)
meat is linked with a direct death,dairy doesn't require a direct animal's death.That's why I think there is an objective difference between meat and dairy which makes dairy less bad. The problem in this case is the industry,not the inherent act.
That moment when you owned him on the "imposing morality" argument... and you could just see his brain go "ERROR! ERROR!" Beautiful! 👏👏👏
Fantastic wasn’t it! It was like “mic drop!” 🎤 🙌
"Danger, Will Robinson...Danger!"
I cracked up at that moment 😂😂
I eat baby brains and drink butter blood
I don't agree with the vegeterian, but it looked like they had different semantics for the word "impose"
Ed! My friend passed you in an airport the other day and it got me really excited lol. How I'd love to sit down and have a chat with you about life!
I remember my ignorant days of being a Vegetarian! Until I learned what was really going on. I haven’t gone back since.
Ditto, Sienna. I was a poser for almost thirty years. An ex-dairy farmer forced me to see the "light".
Same.
@@mistygirl3995 most of us Vegans were vegetarians once. It's not a bad thing.
@@waynemongo its bad if you think consuming dairy or eggs doesnt hurt anyone.
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
"Don't eat animal products they are literally suffering and dying"
"Have you considered that that's inconvenient for me?"
Ed has the patience of an absolute Saint, and umatched eloquence.
I've finally figured it out, that table possesses all the intelligence you vocalise and your hand is merely a scraping tool to harness the intelligence on that table. You are nothing without that table Ed, sorry to say. I've observed your subjects watching your hand gestures as they harness the powers spread across that table in deathly precision and amazement - like watching an artist painting a masterpiece.
I'll at least give you credit for being the table's mouthpiece and doing it so eloquently. Thanks for it :-)
lol sometimes he really does touch that table like a sacred altar
I don't want to change the way I think, this is NOT FAIR!! 😭😭😭
Nice username ☺️
@@maxinev.1841 Thanks 🤗
I hate to say it but I used to be a vegetarian against veganism 😞
Made the switch 1/1/2020 and never going back
Same here~ 😔 I'm so glad that Ed's videos convinced me.
I’m a bit weary of Ed since he is becoming an influencer with an interest in selling his product, namely a clothing line now. I’m a bigger fan of Gary Yourofsky who preaches that the passive vegan approach isn’t always correct. He doesn’t want your money, he just wants to educate. Besides, Gary Yourofsky has helped turn thousands of people toward veganism, granted he’s been around longer.
@@medweb8690 true, Ed's got of a bit shit clothing line out!
@@medweb8690 that is kinda based 👀 thanks bro
@@itsohaya4096 idk I hate to get too into a particular figure and always remember why I’m vegan, because the terrified eyes of a cow or pig before being slaughtered or gassed or beaten to death haunts me. I’m not a psychopath or a sociopath. Humans are garbage and we live in a fucked up society. End rant.
In all my years of outreach I have never heard this excuse to justify abusing animal. You know that saying "who are you trying to convince" or "I think you protest to much"
I think this guy knows he is reaching. Thank you Ed for being so patient
Wow Ed you're such a wonderful person. Your appearance has the perfect blend of empathy for those who have not yet found veganism as a moral obligation for themselves and the strong appeal for animal rights. Inspiring as always
What a great conversation. Looks like progress to me 🌱
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
'Everybody can have their own morality as long as it doesn't affect others.'
He was so close to getting it.
So long as those others aren't individuals whose exploitation I derive pleasure from of course
@@Chepperz You don't quite get it.
And only if you choose veganism...all other choices are wrong cause eating meat is too nutritious and doesn’t sell vegan books.
@@flexo3333 it was sarcasm, I was highlighting the same irony that you were. He wishes not to harm other people but doesn't specify why he believes this in the first place and applies appeal to tradition fallacy by saying "it's just how I react/how I grew up". We know that the real reason he does this is not because he thinks that animals shouldn't have any moral consideration, it's that he has done enough mental gymanastics to justify to himself that so long as his convenience and everyday life is built around some leval and socially accepted moral atrocity, that he is justified in continuing to support it.
Changing the entire way you think should never be considered an inconvenience: as humans, we have evolved by doing just that. The abolition of slavery and giving rights to those who didn't have them before, would have never happened if changing the way the oppressors thought was considered an inconvenience.
If morality is subjective and you can't apply it to animals because, according to some, they don't have moral values or they can't use a moral calculus so therefore a person should be allowed to harm and kill them, then, by the same logic, they should also be allowed to do the same to those of our species who don't yet have moral values and to those who never will (humans up to a certain age and those don't have the brain capacity for whatever reason, because their brains are damaged).
Hats off to Sahil, though, for considering he might be wrong (he is, but hadn't realised).
Ed, is was great seeing you at UT, I've been watching your content for close to 4 years now. Every time I see you debate I'm amazed at your composure, and quick-wittedness which one can clearly see comes from your strong dedication to the movement, and continuous education. We need you here in Texas man! Lol, a lot of ignorant brains walking around that need some light, hope to see you in Austin again!
This guy is super credulous with dubious claims and skeptical with ones that are easy to investigate and research. I think he might just need to mature a bit and get some more life experience. He reminds me of how I was when I was younger with regards to pseudoscientific concepts.
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
I love the calmness, the exchanging of information, the civility. I don’t think it’s about who wins or loses. They both hear each other and that’s beautiful, and we all come to our own truths in time. Lovely video
I really appreciated this guys manner. He never tried to shout Ed down and he was extremely articulate. I liked how he was honest about the convenience factor. I think he will be vegan one day.
It's really easy to be vegan, put yourself in the animals position! Thank you Ed!👏🙏♥️♥️
I'd rather not be a cow though
@@angycucumber4319 Yeah, I wouldn't want to be any poor animal. This world is bonkers 😢🙏
sadly, there is no cure for narcissism or pathological lack of empathy....
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
@@mato4334 I know..Poor little babies 😠😢🙏♥️
I have a lot of respect for this guy, for one, props for being veg his whole life. Although he has stances not everyone is going to agree with, he's super respectful and honest. I like these kinds of calm debates.
It’s amusing when people think they’re going to stump Ed. He’s done this for so long that he’s probably heard every question and challenge several times. I don’t always eat like I should, so it’s good for me to continue watching.
Talking in circles doesn't work with Ed, he will always guide the conversation back to where it needs to go. Every single person has come to realize their argument's defeat. Once again, well done Ed!!! 👏👏👏
so why is he vegetarian again?🤔 i was vegetarian for 23 years and as soon as i found out what happened to the dairy industry i instantly cut out dairy and now have been vegan for 3 years! all these poor animals that are being killed for meat and dairy is appalling/disgusting and i am so sad it still happens!
Because 1) He was raised vegetarian (I assume by Indian parents) so it sounds like he doesn’t see meat as “food.”
2) He doesn’t want to stop eating eggs and dairy. Literally, that’s it. He knows what’s wrong with it but just doesn’t want to change, so he won’t.
He is a self-centered narcissist, that's why.
I still eat meat and eggs but completely cut out dairy
Literally just because he was raised as one. If he wasn't, he'd be eating meat and using the exact same excuses he used here.
*Create a Better 🌎 and a Better You by.............Living Vegan* 💜
🙋♀🦝
You’re a star! As always, I get frustrated listening to these debates, but you’re so calm, thoughtful, and respectful, that you always eventually get through on some level.
Golly, this guy is just so (book) smart! His entire, wordy, long-winded argument can be distilled down to "I wanna eat what I wanna eart & here's me engaging in verbal gymnastics to justify that.".
Another grounded and intelligent video. Thank you Ed for all of your work. Sending love from my vegan family to you!
I haven't met a lot of vegetarians, but it's very strange to see one who doesn't seem to have any consideration for the suffering of animals 🤨
my mom is this way. she's vegetarian and yet the most anti-vegan person I know. she genuinely believes she cares about animals and then says things like "I'll never give up my leather, I like it too much." always trying to argue with me about how veganism is actually worse for animals to make herself feel better for not wanting to give up buttered boiled vegetables and cheese. gross.
Yeah, that was the first time I'd seen it, myself. But he's a vegetarian because that's how he was raised - it's his default mode.
@@iamthepinkylifter I went from vegetarian to vegan in a second after learning that eggs, dairy, and honey still cause suffering. I can’t believe your mom. Also, f*** leather.
You always know what to answer in any circumstances and on any topic, don't you?! I really can't see how you could lose a debate on logical reasoning! What I love about your way of debating (beyond your saint patience), is that you always manage to pinpoint where people don't think like vegans and you find the right question to have them face their incoherence, to the point that they can't speak anymore because they notice they have no answer. Did this ability come through the countless conversations you've had? I wish I could do the same! Keep up the amazing work!!
Ed, you speak so well and deliver a considered and accurate perspective to every point. You're perfect for this role in life, so keep going and stay patient - you're a great example for all of us!
Ed not hesitating to change someone's entire life philosophy in a conversation
I cnt thank God enough for making someone like Ed a vegan!! ❤️
One of the best conversation i've seen on your channel Ed, it's inspiring to see how prepared you are. Thank you very much for doing what you do.
"Opposing your morality is wrong but I'll impose my morality on others when it suits me ofc." Some people just need to take a deep breath and listen to themselves speaking. The breatherian part was great btw...😂🤦🏻♂️
There's no winning that fight....
As soon as he said I'm a "moral relativist" I knew this debate was over. This concept of morality being "subjective" must cease to exist, for it creates a society where no one has consideration for the well being of others. You would think universities would teach their students these basic concepts.
Who is the arbiter of objective morality then
i'm not saying you should use moral relativism as an excuse to harm others but i have yet to see someone who believes in objective morality state a coherent moral framework that works well in all situations
No, his idea of moral relativism is just inadequate. I am a moral relativist and advocate for veganism.
but who decides what is objectively moral? 🤔
you're religious right?
What a great little debate, kudos to both! The guy seemed like he’s really open to changing his mind when he comes across arguments that are compelling from his POV, and that is a great thing.
another wonderful video, Ed :3 bless your patience and time and courage! much love from America.
Ed is so articulate in his speech....dayyumm!!!
To cut it short, he's being selfish and do not want to give up his way of living, despite knowing how bad the egg and dairy industry is. His arguments are just as bad as the carnists.
Yes!!! I wish Ed would have asked him why he wouldn't eat meat?
"wizards who only consume air tho" is a new one to add in the bingo
amazing final argument/point you made there Ed. saw your video was 18minutes as i was just about to have breakfast and i was like oooo yes, time to get comfortable. keep up the amazing work Ed!
As someone who was vegetarian for 16 years, and now vegan for 6+ I love everything about this debate. 👏 I hope Sahil sees the fallacy in his arguments.
you're just imposing your morality
Crop harvests do and will continue fail, and they fail big time when they do. If there were no dairy herds or chicken egg coops, then there will be mass famines. It’s a don’t put all your eggs in the soy beans basket.
Another amazing conversation Ed!! This is great!
You absolutely NAILED this one, through and through. Well rounded!
Great conversation! 😀
You definitely gave him something to think about 💭
Thank you so much for these types of videos! Fallow ups would be superb 😁
Today, as consequence of trying to balance questionable commentary contributions I became a patron 🤙🏼
Keep on keepin' on! 🖖🏼
Life’s a garden 🪴 dig it! 🌱
Vegetarians can be crazier than omnis sometimes. Hope this guy comes around eventually. Great job, Ed!
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
"the inconvenience imposed on people by trying to change their worldview is morally wrong!" Interesting take while being a student at a university. Shouldn't he also object to education then?
Earthling Ed is just too smart for these people. He is imposing his morality on others if he judges that others are mistreating people and therefore he steps in. Love how Ed forces people to questions their beliefs and why they believe them. Brilliant.
Except he doesnt dazzle them with brilliance he baffles them with bullshit.
I heard about this guru guy who lived without food for a really really long time...until he eventually starved to death. It was soooo spiritual.
This was a really good discussion. Sahil seemed to enjoy having his ideas (of moral relativism) challenged which is a sign of a genuinely curious person
Its a good indicator he may change his viewpoints as well. I was a staunch "humane meats" person before I was vegan. It took some debating (online) and a few documentaries to decide to at least try veganism (I skipped to veganism because I have never liked eggs anyways [although of course in baked goods I didn't care]) as I quickly learned about how the dairy industry basically supports the veal industry (something that ironically I was against even as an non-vegetarian!) and learnt that "the only way to make cows produce milk is either through making them pregnant or rBST [which causes the legs of cows to weaken {lameness} and has been banned in most of the world since the early 2000s]. Obviously most cows therefore are intentionally made pregnant and the offspring usually go to the veal industry).
After about two or three weeks I went through some discomfort from drastically increasing my fiber intake but I felt a lot better physically and mentally [the latter most likely because of an unintentionally healthier diet]. Then from there I just decided to see how long it would take me to "break" or "cheat". I'm already at nearly 8 years vegan.
Sometimes its not until the person feels comfortable making the jump they find out it wasn't as bad as they previously thought. The unknown scares us and change is filled with the unknown. But often times we find the things we previously thought would be serious were otherwise benign. That the catalyst of change would disrupt our entire system of our individuality but we are far more adaptable and malleable than we even give ourselves credit for.
OH NO! Having to change the way you THINK?!?! But the inconvenience!!!😱
Wow Ed the level of patience you have is inspiring!
Love your calm and educated stance in these debates Ed. You have an answer to all points that more often than not leave your guests reflecting on the discussion. The best chance we have at encouraging people to question the morality around eating meat is implementing this calm and informed approach as opposed to heated arguments. Great stuff!
all I hear from this young man is "I don't want to change, and i will look for any argument I can to confirm my bias so that I don't have to feel bad"
The guy needs to put his ego aside and actually listen and be willing to acknowledge his errors and contradictions. Nice job Ed!
Him really listening to them seems to make these conversations go smoothly. Take notes, vegan activists 💚☮️🌱
It looks like this person had never met anyone before who had not been instantly impressed and nodded along to his explanation of his relativism.
Thank you for so very gently shaking his worldview up a bit ❤️
11:02 - "Animals don't need to display the same moral agency and morality that we do to deserve not to be arbitrarily harmed by us" - ....... Sheesh.
It’s painful to see the sophomoric awkwardly attempting to defend their halfwitted, cruel philosophies like this young man is doing. Hopefully he’ll come around - and stop his harming of others.
Vegetarianism is the path to veganism. It's not to be mocked
They don't want you to know this crucial fact so they can keep you running on the hamster wheel while filling their pockets 👉👉The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🔥🔥
@@waynemongo In these cases vegetarianism really is the final destination. They have supposedly been vegetarian all their life and they have absolutely no intention of changing. People who just went vegetarian because they have begun to understand the system of abuse, suffering and death that "animal agriculture" is - those are the ones not to be mocked.
@@Sir99percent those who are without sin, throw the first stone. Your lifestyle kills animals. And i mean you're comfortable western lifestyle. All we can do is try to reduce the suffering we cause - just like Ed says. Any effort is not to be mocked. I spent 20 years as a vegetarian being mocked by meat eaters. Vegans mocking vegetarians is ridiculous.
@@waynemongo In his case and the majority of vegetarians from India are vegetarian for religious reasons. This guy was born in a vegetarian family and didn't make that choice out of compassion. You will often find such people to be animals haters, in many cases. They will kick street dogs and throw stones at birds in the balcony, for example. They will wear leather shoes, wool, fur, go on animal rides... basically, will do everything except eating meat because 'its a sin' in their religion. Hypocrites of the top order.
Thank you, Ed!! You’re my hero!! You save so many animals with your work!!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! 💙🌎🌍🐷🐮🐔🐝🐬🐠🌿 Also, I finished your book today! Outstanding! I cried at the end with your acknowledgements. 💙
Ed Winters is my hero. Thank you so much for all you do! ❤️🙏 I can imagine this activist lifestyle of confrontation can be super stressful and exhausting but you've just been killing it with the most elegant poise for years and years now. You are amazing and please never let the ignorant and angry people dissuade you from fighting the good fight. We desperately need more voices like yours to guide the masses to true compassion.