Is Eating Animals Wrong? Hunters vs Vegans | Middle Ground
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 15. 05. 2024
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0:00 Forage sponsorship
1:30 Intro
2:57 Cast introductions
3:44 I care about animals' well-being
8:17 Veganism is a privileged way of living
14:38 Hunting is only acceptable if it's for food
17:05 My diet is healthier
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I wish Erin came out of nowhere just to say âThatâs not veganâ at least once
Jelani, chico but you did.
bahahaha this comment is the one :P
Surprised this is the only comment with that in there đ or the mention of Richard and âis there not a bananaâŠâ
This joke is so dead. Stop
JFC this joke is just beating a dead horse by now
As someone who doesnât eat meat, I 100% think that hunting is better than the meat industry.
I fully agree, I myself stopped eating meat and fish because i'm against the meat and fishing industry. But I'm not against hunting for food if the animal had a normal life, when none of the animal is wasted and it's done on a sustainable way.
Iâm vegan but I 100% agree
Well you speak sense but we have to acknowledge the fact that hunting itself is a lifestyle and with every lifestyle comes expenses.. Not everyone has the time, money no the skill least speak of the land to hunt and process game meat but still want meat đ„©with this I don't overlook the negetivity that the cormecial meat industry has on the environment but I believe it's bridging this gap for those who lack the privilege to hunt for themselves ..
itâs not morally right BUT it is better
@@lais.v.m yes
This is probably the best episode of Middle Ground Iâve ever seen. Every single participant was thoughtful, open-minded, and educated.
Very refreshing
Only thing I disagreed with a little was when Carly defending trophy hunting bc while I agree with hunting for food I'm against sport hunting and there's tourist opportunities where ppl can take photos and that benefits the community
Except for the one guy who claims the food industry was "co-opted by whiteness".
Junior . . . . . . no.
Definitely in the top 50% of their episodes, but I feel like they barely scratched the surface of this debate. There is so much more they could have gone over that would have really put it above the rest.
I felt the opposite. I felt this group was woefully ignorant of many of the issues at the crux of this. Have someone who works in conservation policy who hunts or having an actual vegan farmer who harvests and relies on that food. Needed way more here.
This was great. No drama no fighting, just thoughtful individuals talking about their differing views. Beautiful
Why can't everyone just discuss their point of view like this? It makes me sad when ones are hateful and disrespectful. Weâre all people on the same planet, why canât we all get along.
â@@coreyw8739not everyone is the same lmao
i love meat
Iâm glad they had a hunter whoâs indigenous to show that not every hunter is from a conservative state or city
đŻ
Most hunters are subsistence hunters though.
@@DA-js7xz in the west maybe? Not globally.
Alaska is a conservative state
YES!
Erin Would be disappointed with such 'rookies' representing veganism.
True lol
Erin to the vegans in this video: tHaTs NoT vEgAN
I LOVE THIS COMMENT SO MUCH
âYour commentâŠ. Uhhh not vegan!â Is something that green midget would say
i love how erin has like a whole fanbase and everyone remembers her
When Brittany broke down talking about her people's land being taken away, it broke my heart.
@Jayhemess Drake what
@Jayhemess Drake yeah what? That is absurd and ridiculous of you to think that
@Jayhemess Drake 8:00
Who do you think the land belonged to then???
@Jayhemess Drake seek help and the slightest bit of compassion pls
@Jayhemess Drake they think itâs ok for native Americans to plunder and exploit ppl and natural resources with religion as long as they arenât white
I love how they actually found the "middle ground" relating and understanding each other unique situations, where as in other episodes both parties persistently oppose each other and refuse to listen believing that there ideals are the only valid ones
I think no matter what side you're on everyone should acknowledge that the current meat industry is grossly inhumane and needs to be fixed
Abolished, not fixed.
@@GriffinK10 you right
@@GriffinK10 cant just straight up abolish it. That inhumane industry still provides food to millions if not billions
@@jayyzee5708 You can't feed the world on meat. You can feed the world 2 times over off plants. Not to mention the impact it has on the climate, our bodies, and the animals themselves.
@@GriffinK10 You can't? Then what is happening right now? lol Plus allergies exist, there are some people which conditions and health issues that can't eat a lot of plant matter, and having the meat added in keeps them healthy (myself being one)
I personally think hunting is much more humane than the meat industry.
Edit: I wanted to clarify that this is coming from a vegan.
Yeah I agree, the animals get to live full lives in the wild and are killed more humanely as compared to the meat industry which is very traumatic for the animals
I think both are humane, but then again I have a better perspective of the meat industry since Iâm in it. If you have any questions though Iâm open to answer.
I think vegans don't like eating meat because killing an animal is inhumane and there's no good way to end an animal's life.
@@FoggyTheHippo how are the animals killed
@@athmos6891
That is debatable, the air powered âgunsâ used in slaughterhouses are humane if you ask me. The death is extremely quick and efficient and doesnât involve the animal being in pain.
This was very positive, Iâm glad that they were open with each other and werenât throwing malice or putting words into each otherâs mouths, very mature of them all âșïž less suffering is the goal here.
vegans also care a lot about animals - but instead of doing it like the hunters, they show it by not using animal products. which are all just from the industry - which both hunters and vegans are against. vegans and hunters don't necessarily interfere with each other, more than anything they're on the same side. it should be against the meat industry, not vegans vs hunters.
I want to see someone get slapped with some meat đđ wouldve made my day
@@scottbivins4758 what are you talking about lil bro?
@@samibinol that's exactly what I was thinking; hunters for necessity and vegans have the same goal and enemy in mind for the most part so why wouldn't they get along?
@@samibinolIâve never thought of it like that
Iâve been vegan for 10 years and I was just blown away by the thoughtful, open minded, and self aware conversation that took place. It was really amazing to have the indigenous perspective, as well as Carlyâs sort of âall Americanâ perspective. I really understood and appreciated every point they made and applaud them for participating
How do you know when someone is a vegan?
Theyâll tell you! đđđ
Respect to Carly for admitting she doesnât know certain things as opposed to bullshitting through the conversation đđ»
Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? I see the way you're acting like you're somebody else. Gets me frustrated. Just admit that you love the videos I make, my dear my
@@AxxLAfriku what?
Looks like she was having a break down. Trying to make any excuse that she can.
@@edward3591 ignore him, its some crazy guy that crawls around every comment section advertising his channel. Surprised hes still around tbh
ALL ANIMALS ARE CONSCIOUS
HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES
ANIMAL PRODUCTS ARE ABUSE
That indigenous Alaskan girl crying mid way for their traditional lands getting snatched and fined by huge food corporations for more poultry and agricultural production broke me
Same
Yes..very sad..
It's so sad
I felt sorry for the victims, the non-human victims of the situation will never change as being the target, no matter the human resolution in that particular scenario with that Alaskan person... hunting to survive and not starve to death as there is nothing else is not a "special relationship with the animals" or "being at one with nature", it's a simple act of survival that entails your own suffering and death if you can't eat to survive. Ultimately if that Alaskan person has no other choice in the matter than to take other sentient lives, unless she suffer the same fate or suffer from severe malnourishment as a result of her unforgiving and inhospitable climate, then my sincerest sincerities honestly (must be a very gruesome way to live), then that is survival, and nothing special or admirable about that; just utter survival and no other judgement is to be had.
It's very cruel, but also necessary as your own suffering and eventual painful death would mean taking another being's life would be justified as it would outweigh the being's fate, nothing more. In the eyes of the non-human animals, it's simple survival, death, and unimaginable suffering, no special "relationship".
Ultimately if we had a choice not to live such a horrid existence and not inflict such cruelty onto other beings, then surely that would make much more sense and would be the more moral thing to do for all? Surely trying *to get out of* that cruelty and not killing others should be done? And in turn eliminating all forms of injustice in our world that we can, rather than appealing to speciesist murder while those people who don't live such a cruel existence *have the choice not to* (AKA, the majority of the world, especially in the west), therefore clearly not having to resort to such extremities to live and sustain their lives, livelihood and wellbeing. Having other standards for other creatures whilst favouring others (like the hunters did with their dogs) is not admirable, killing other beings that have an equal desire to live as you do is not admirable, the suffering of having nothing else apart from to hunt to stay alive is nothing special.
@@lerapol tldr
"People will judge your sexuality just because they are vegan"
Caught myself on this one, sorry about that!
because its a gay thing or women. real men aren't vegan at all since they need cholesterol and proteins.
probably cuz 99 per cent of vegans are gay ive never met a non gay vegan lol
I know hes gay
đ
I mean generally it's true. Hippies are usually vegan and lgbt
I'm obsessed with Brittany. She's striking, first off, but dude. Her understanding of respect of life, and food, and indigenous culture, like... I mean she's perfect.
She IS indigenous culture
Much much respect
Hunters are like pedophiles; they prey on the innocent.
That is rural Alaskans
So cool to see that there actually was a middle ground for this episode-it sounds like the true common enemy is commercial meat and fish industries
Agreed When I do eat fish (pescatarian) I always try to buy humane and the best quality but I do understand itâs hard for a lot of people to afford those options
@@Ookashay they have extremely crappy conditions of billions of animals, contribute significantly to global warming, waste a ton of resources such as food and land. We are already growing enough food for 10 billion people, but we feed a ton of it to livestock.
@@adrianvasquez6783 it amazes me how many people still donât know this
That should be the next middle ground
It absolutely is. I can't support industrial farming of living, feeling and thinking beings. There is no way animal's well being can be prioritized when the largest profit has to be made.
It broke my heart to see the Alaskan girl crying about their lands being taken away
tuff
@Kaiser24 Just because that's how people have done it throughout history doesn't mean we have to keep doing it, and it doesn't make it right.
Yea makes you wonder why they have kids with the people that do it.
@@RainWalking You don't have kids with the government, you have kids with the citizens of that government, who are simply subjects to a system bigger and more complicated than any one person.
@@ElectronicCalifornia I was thinking the same
Iâve watched a lot of middle ground episodes bc I love them. And I have to say, only looking at the interaction this is one of my favorite episodes. All of them were being so polite, respectful and considerate.
Loved it
Thank you!
They have some very civil ones. The conservative Trans vs liberal trans wasn't civil
the way they all give the chance to talk, and they are so conscious of their words itâs so refreshing to see after all those other hectic debates. đ
I love to realize thereâs still people willing to say âif this was asked first, Iâd have disagreed, but after hearing your story I think youâre rightâ this video shows that respectful communication, humility and LISTENING are the key for progress.
The world would be a so much better place if more people simply respected the views and ideas of others.
some of the vegans
I find that that is why people get louder and louder when they argue. It's more about feeling like the other person isn't understanding their point of view so they have to yell it louder to try and get them to understand. If people would take an extra step of 'Is this what you mean..?' before going off on their opinion, I think we'd get better debates and more respect for each other. Often times, we aren't even concerned so much that someone has a different opinion, just that we want to have our opinions understood as well.
The vegans just became apologists for the animal abusers by the end. It's not even a particularly good discussion on the ethics of veganism, they only succeeded in sugar-coating the issue and brushing it under a rug
Yes, they are willing to say that because the conversation is recorded, let them on twitter and see what happens
Not gonna lie, I thought Carly was gonna be a Karen. Shes actually really humble and answers the questions with understandable thoughts.
Iâm surprised the vegans werenât Karenâs wut
I know right. I wanted to write the same thing in the comment section. But then thought maybe someone else thought the same. đ€Ł
How tf would the hunter be the Karen in the situation when vegans are involved?
The did her dirty in the thumbnail
ikr she seems so nice
Glad they put indigenous voices into the conversation, when veganism/hunting etc. is brought up especially in America indigenous voices and culture are not brought up enough. As an indigenous person who had this conversation the other day, I am so glad we had a voice in tradition, respect, and culture.
Race shouldn't matter. You should be judged based on the continent of your character not your race. I don't want to listen to what you have to say because you're an indigenous person I'd like to listen to what you have to say because you're a human being. f*** your skin color. Let's end racism today all forms of it. Weather at benefits you or not. I say this as a half indigenous person, quarter black American, quarter anglo Saxons Germanic Viking.
Iâm personally a hunter, and I have always respected the vegan community. Mad respect to both parties for their cooperation and willingness to actually listen and think on everything that each side had to say.
A "hunter" respecting a community that would see you jobless?
Think of more believable lies to tell online
â@@funichigoI doubt hunting is their "job".
@@coffeebean7340yeah I donât exactly know if hunting is a jobđ
As a vegan is at least a baseline level of understanding about the food process that happens when hunting, and you can't accuse people of hypocrisy as easily. Population control is a reasonable angle as well. It's industrialised animal agriculture that is, in my opinion, the great moral evil.
@@funichigo The troll of the thread, everyone!
One of the few Middle Grounds where I didnât hate anyone in particular.
Lmao same
the only one i felt a bit iffy about was the blonde because she doesn't really have to hunt like the eskimos do.
@@JewTube001 but she's helping keep the population down and she's feeding her family.
@@hahouse7209 but what does keeping the population down mean? from my experience it either means culling an invasive species, or culling a native species after we culled the native species predator. there's a lot of fuckery that goes with first world people interfering with natural ecosystems. as for her and her family's survival, they have the privilege to eat other foods so it's not really a point of survival like the northern natives. more so a choice.
@@JewTube001 Well if a population were to get out of hand, they would die of starvation and disease, and the population would shrink severely. So she's trying to help them. And while the deer population could go without her, by killing a certain amount she's technically saving a lot.
Next one should be vegans vs factory farmers not hunters. Who agree'sâ
Fr ! Thatâs the true concern
This is a really important conversation that needs to be had
Iâve been vegan for nearly 10 years. And If you hunt for food, thatâs more respectable then factory farming. And I say eat what you want. Itâs your health not mine.
Yes
@@marvellbgry Vegan is more than just eating. It's all animal products. And it is not a simple matter of choice when there is a victim involved. You wouldn't go around saying "rape who you want, it's your body and you can get an STD if you want". Someone else is being raped. The rapist's body is not the issue.
It would be interesting to see a Vegans vs Farmers though. As a vegan I feel like I don't have enough information to really empathize with farmers who live from the meat industry.
Where I am from, farmers raise vegetable or fruit crops. Ranchers raise animals.
@@aaronfischer9885 Where I'm from agriculturist grow vegetables, ranchers raise animals and farmers do both things, they have farm animals and grow vegetables and grain too.
Where Iâm from, farming is done ethical and there is very few instances of animal cruelty, unlike The rest of europe and americaâŠ
I love this video because it seems like everyone was okay admitting when they didnât know something and they were also willing to have a conversation and grow on their own ideas when they learned new information! Really great video and really great people â€ïž
You guys should do âDo all children of divorce think the sameâ for kids with divorced parents!! A good spectrum of middle ground!â
Awesome idea!
@@sunflowerqueen6569 agree
Yes!!!
yes!!!!
@@luciahpbrn ikr
But honestly I am a vegan and I genuinely don't think it's the hunters or individuals that are the problem it's the meat industry and the thinking that animals are only food to be consumed.
I have nothing against people that have to hunt to survive or the Natives that have sustainabily done it. Also it's not my place to tell them to do anything. Someone who belongs to the community better understands them and can emphasize with them..
Which is why we need representation from indigenous black, Muslim vegans.
Anytime I buy meat I try to source it from smaller farms from my butcher. The enemy we all have is the Meat Packing Plants. I would love to go vegan, but chicken is too good to give up.
Only if every vegan was understanding and respectful like you. Most of them I met are so high up on their Moral high horse and act like their lifestyle is the only way to eradicate all problems in in life.
Exactly! I respect hunters even though I wouldnât do it myself because they still seem connected to their foods and to the lands unlike mass farming and food factories.
@@Princessbubblegum567 I think it also has a lot to do with american vegans or white vegans. You can't expect individual changes without facilitating with policies. If nutritional vegetables were as cheap as meat much more people would pick them. If people had more resources to spend on food a fair wage they would be more inclined to choose whats better for the environment and also animals.
Thank you! I absolutely agree.
This is definitely one of the best episodes I've watched. Them all respecting eachothers opinions and sharing a big hug at the end was warming!
I think this is so far the best video of the series that I've seen. These people are just considering everything from different perspectives and talking just with respect for others
in Asia, privileged people get to eat meat and poor people eat veggies. How's ironic
It shows that America's riches are on another level. Now you can afford the vegetables that have all your nutrients.
Samee ,here where i live is actually it's luxury to have meat on the household
But veganism can extend to everything makeup, candies, clothes, dairies, I think what you are talking about is being vegetarian.
Same in Mexico đŹ
Same in Morocco ( north Africa ) ........this whole narrative is very interesting to me đ€
imagine if they got the vegan teacher to participate in this
There would be just screaming.
vegan teacher is hot
or freelee
As a vegan I don't approve
@@fatimaghailan6728 well good thing ur not the owner of this show
I love these kind of debates. Were everyone is friendly, open minded and not just blindly attacking each other
I loved both sides. Iâm so happy they picked open and attentive vegans that werenât aggressive or judgmental. I think they got to the root solution. To be mindful and aware of what you put in your body and how itâs sourced. Meat or plants
actually, the production team deserve a big shout-out for putting "hunters" instead of "meat-eaters" or "meat-industry people"
For sure. People who go out to hunt or have a small farm appreciate their food and know the sacrifice that goes into procuring their meal.
idk i kinda expected this, id rather see meat eaters vs vegans but they would have to vet out the crazy vegans lol and pair up some meat eaters that are open to conversation and chainging their mind perhaps
I honestly felt like making it vegans vs hunters instead of vegans vs meat-eaters made it kind of lopsided. Being vegan is a lifestyle choice while being a hunter is a profession. I feel like the hunters are more likely to have much more knowledge in the economy of meat consumption and such than the vegans.
@@fuxksalot id call it a hobby, not a profession
@Kirill Obraztsov It seems it can be both. I've seen that there is professional hunting but if people do it without being a professional then it's a hobby in those cases.
Probably one of the only Middle Ground episode that the contestants are actually respectful of others views and doesnât try to flex their knowledge.
Thereâs been a few of them where a civil discussion and middle ground has been reached, like the graduates vs drop-outs, birth parents vs adoptees, virgin vs non-virgin, war veterans vs peace activists (unsurprisingly), online dating vs traditional dating and a few others I canât recall.
I swear there's a comment like that on every middle ground ep
@@ayaalioua2378 I donât know. On the majority of the MG series, most people donât see the otherâs side, especially the ones trenched in the political spectrum.
@@BonazaiGirl also religious leaders vs scientists. It was one of my fav episodes
@@BonazaiGirl The rival gangs one was very civil too
This was a really beautiful episode! Iâm a hunter and a meat eater, but I really donât like the meat industry, and I agree with vegans on many points! I just think that we can get better meat elsewhere, like hunting or farmers markets!
I am a vegan, and I couldn't agree more with you! :-)
Yes I personally know many farms that are humane and ethical people also need to understand that just because an animal was raised on a farm doesn't mean it's unethical
@@lecameleondeslangues3006 if you're a vegan and you agree that hunting is acceptable when it's not necessary for survival you're not vegan.
@@PeterBalfor This seems like a "no true scotsman" statement
Hunting & fishing provides a lot of money for state wildlife agencies, so rather than just conserving deer & fish populations, they maximize the populations using fish hatcheries, preventing hunting of doe, restricting the number of bucks one can hunt, clearing forests and more. The woman in the video states that the deer would starve otherwise, but she doesn't realize that her hunting is funding the agencies that make sure those deer exist in the first place to eventually, theoretically, starve. Populations could be more ethically controlled through chemical birth control, but hunting brings in money. Hunting is definitely better than factory farms, but don't fall for the "hunting is conservation" talking point. It's free range farming at best.
Im glad they all got along and were able to have convorsations without screaming and shouting at each other
Which is what more people on the internet need to figure out.
Hunter: âOk so Bambi doesnât exist, thatâs a Disney movie.â
Me: My whole childhood was a lie *THROWS PHONE*
I threw my PC(on my phone now)
Burns my Bambi shirt
@@arealisticbeautystandard8920 đđ
rips off my Bambi Tattoo (what)
@@abhinavdevulapalli1648 sounds painful
Y'all should do a vegan vs. Vegetarian middle ground
I fear there will be a fight if they did lmao
i'm a vegetarian and get attacked a lot by vegans saying i'm worse than a meat eater cause i think i'm doing good but i'm notđ
yea fr im vegetarian and ppl always think we're the same as vegans
@@ddqio7774 what the hell? Really?
@@sola_a Why would there be? Fighting to protect their dairy addiction?
I think this is one of the most respectful and thoughtful conversations on this channel they were all well spoken and willing to listen
I LOVED how this middle ground they actually had open discussion without arguments. Refreshing
I'm glad that there was an indigenous hunter because indigenous people have an entirely different point of view on hunting and veganism since it greatly influences their culture.
I mean... Sexism drastically influences most cultures. Doesn't mean it's right or should be protected or defended.
im sure they're way more eco and nature aware than people who buy from supermarkets
Just because it from indigenous does not make it ethical if they can survive, reasonable and practicable without meat. Justification of meat to the contrary or literally saying it's fine because they are indigenous, is a waterdown verison of the racist concept of the "nobel savage".
@@ONeill01 native americans and alaska natives have been living off the land for thousands of years before europeans set foot on north america, they needed to hunt animals like bison/elk/reindeer/etc in order to survive.
@@williamblue356 Please re-read what I said, if they genuinely cannot survive being vegan as practicable and reasonable then this is ok
Maybe veganism is a privilege in the U.S, here in South America we have access to a lot of beans, legumes, fruits, etc. We all know in here that our groceries would be a lot cheaper if we don't buy meat. But it is harder to get tofu, synthetic egg and other processed foods.
Also, buying make up is not 'necessary', actually make up is a privilege itself.
In India also it's cheaper to have a vegan/vegetarian diet rather than consuming meat.
Y tambiĂ©n podria decirse lo mismo de las âalternativasâ, mayormente fabricadas, es todo un privilegio. No hace falta que comamos cosas asi, mejor q comamos lo q venga de la tierra, frutas, vegetables etcĂ©tera. Entonces el veganismo en si no es un privilegio! Excusas no? Tenemos muchas hoy en dia
I didnât even consider that! Good point honestly.
not sure why in the US vegetables / beans / fruits are expensive!!!!
In the most northern countries vegetables are harder to grow and less accessible so meat is a more viable option than a vegan diet
this is the nicest middle ground video ive seen in terms of this topic. i love it. this is what we need in humanity!
This is probably my favorite episode because it had a group of people from different perspectives and they were very respectful of otherâs opinions and backgrounds. All the other episodes have that one stubborn person who hijacks the entire episode; and shuts down any interesting conversations from happening.
should have done vegans vs factory farmers not hunters. most people can agree against hunting for sport, and will be relatively understanding of hunter for sustainable. this conversation just isnât the one that we needed to have
Facts
itâs better to try to understand the other side instead of looking for easy confirmation that you have better ethics on a restless hard topic. Like the girl who said bambiâs mom deserved to live likely doesnât bother understanding animal agriculture, ethical farming and how it can help animals and people live better and thereâs a lot of vegans who just want to shut down that kind of knowledge and say to just go vegan even though itâs more of an ideology than a solution that everyone can follow. People in cities watch documentaries about sustainability but they donât learn how to grow their own organic food they instead have it shipped from other places and they still have to know if their food is farmed by like child labor or if itâs really ethical for the environment. I used to be vegan but I realized I had no real farming experience outside of the city and itâs kind of hypocritical to see myself as an example of positive change and to convince others of my own blind beliefs. I was told when I was younger that burgers arenât cows theyâre just meat so Iâd still eat them. Then I saw videos of cows being mistreated and male baby chicks shredded the guilt was heavy, Iâd just tear up thinking all meat consumption was wrong. But after crying itâs important to understand the pain and what really changes afterwards. Crying for animals doesnât prevent them from being slaughtered. Neither can being an aggressive proud vegan although we can all agree factory farming has bad energy and output. I donât buy pork nor dairy but support ethical farming practices. I respect the work thatâs put into providing food for people. What you want to eat is a personal choice maybe not really thought of while routinely grocery shopping for most so we should all have a broader perspective on this and I think it was a good video with both sides having a chance to speak and listen.
Heard of Erin?
@@kimtrails3093 What made you decide to stop being vegan? I don't understand why being vegan isn't better than not being vegan. A personal choice shouldn't involve victims if it can be avoided.
Not to start an argument here, but you say "most people can agree against hunting for sport" , however hunting is considered sport.
Idk if around the world hunting isn't seen that way, but the way I know hunting is as a sport. That however does not mean that I'm referring to hunting lions, elephants or rhino's for example(trophy hunting). I'm also not talking about literally going into the wild and going hunting.
I'm talking about hunting game, like gazelle's, on a game farm. That's how I know hunting, as a controlled sustainable way.
They should do erin vs. other vegans.
Yeah the other vegans would probably be like "dude, youre the reason everyone hates us"
Yassss
Erin and Richard
@@mochs62512 thatâs exactly how i feel
That's not vegan
i love this episode omg the participants are so respectful that they were able to have a fruitful discussion!
They all seem like very respectable people unlike most of the other times ive seen people talk about this topic or other discussions. They were respectable, didn't talk over each other no yelling and most of all were willing to learn which is what every "debate" for a lack of better words should be about.
As much as I ethically disagree with many of Carlyâs takes, I totally appreciate her empathy and attentiveness throughout this entire conversation
Thank you Jonathan!
@@misspursuit_tx A quick scan of your profile makes me assume you're Carly. If you are, I just want to tell you how happy your entire attitude made me. You were respectful and open minded and this is the type of conversations I want to see in Jubilee. Wish more people like you appeared on this channel.
They were all empathic and attentive
@@misspursuit_tx thank you for a great conversation! All the best
@@misspursuit_tx You made me view hunting in a completely different lens! Thank you
The reason deer struggle with overpopulation is because we've eliminated their natural predators. Wolf and bear populations have plummeted because people are scared of them or just dont care for them as they do the herbivores. Because we've driven out natural predators, we have to fill that role or the equilibrium will be lost.
Exactly. Hunting doesnât solve the problem, itâs just putting a temporary plaster on a core of the problemâŠ
I can't blame people for not wanting bears, wolves and cayotes around. They're dangerous animals.
Also, I live in an area where deer get on the road and cause a lot of damage to our cars. Some drivers get injured and even die. Imagine having to get an engine replaced or buying a new car because a deer decided to cross the road while you're driving on the highway. It sucks. Its not about "playing god", it's about safety. I'm open to hearing other solutions if you have any.
so you want to live around a lot of bears?
A lot of those predators were eliminated for the benefit of the cattle industry.
facts
Absolutely one of the most amazing discussions I've ever seen on this topic and on this channel. Amazing group of people.
glad to see an indigenous sister here brought into the conversation. Love from your Maaori cousin in Aotearoa !!
i could tell the vegans disagreed HARD with some of the things Carly pointed out. but kudos to them for not blowing up at her
That's one of the differences they have from that vegan teacher
totally agree, i was watching the video and thinking the same thing(i'm vegetarian)
I bet they've never seen how animals die in the wild.
â€ïžâ€ïžâ€ïž
This group of vegans is much better representation than the group from 'vegans vs meat eaters'
yeah
eh they are short term vegans. Most people will not stay vegan because of health reasons I believe. From an ex long term vegan.
Yes they arenât defensive and the stereotypical vegans that force their beliefs
@@samanthab6642 do you mean these ppl are short term vegans? I feel like these people are much more likely to be long term vegans than the ones from meat eaters v vegans because they're less dogmatic about it.
@@samanthab6642 I hope everybody goes vegan long term, I eat the same things with the same nutrients as I did before being vegan, I just make it plant based. Science has come a loooong way.
I appreciate that they remained respectful to one another, without simply tackling each other when someone disagrees with their notion.
This is actually one of the most respectful Middle Grounds Iâve ever watched
i feel like the blonde woman is a really nice mother. she probably brings cookies upstairs when other kids are over
Thats so specific lmfao
She definitely would drop you and your friends off at the swimming no questions asked too đđ
I mean none of her rebuttals make any sense, but yeah she seems nice
haha! That's funny and I kinda like it! Thanks!
Then i wanne come over
I just want to say that, as an African, tourism is a big money-maker, but the real money isn't in trophy hunting. Most people come over and pay an even bigger load of money to stay inside national parks and reserves just to take in the natural beauty of the parks and animals, and that by hunting just to get a stuffed head on a wall, you are essentially taking away a little (no matter how small) of that beauty. Trophy hunting could not possibly be more inhumane. You are hunting just for the prestige and the joy of watching somethings life drain out of it. You have no use for the meat or anything else on the animal.
From what part from africa are you if i may ask couse i got family is south Africa
Thank you!!!!
those are trophy collectors..not hunters..pretty sad the hunters lead em to these places..they arent hunters either
I always thought that hunting in Africa helps in the conversation of the environment and animals.
donât think anyone could have said it better, well said!
This might just be the best episode of middle ground ever! Everyone was so respectful, nobody talked over anyone, nobody raised their voice. Incredible debate between very respectful people. đđ
I really enjoyed this discussion as it had so many different perspectives and it made me understand both ways of living a lot better.
They did a good job choosing the people for this talk.
Yes, but it's surprising they couldn't find another hunter. I wonder why their recruitment team only chose two?
@@turtletail313 one person dropped out. They mentioned it at the start of the cideo
@@WePositivelyCharged ohh thank you, I don't know how I missed that lmao
Fr I was so afraid this would be another episode of vegans acting hysterical and ridiculing the cause
I disagree, I think all the vegans they brought in here did a terrible job of establishing their position as they did little to bring up ethical issues with hunting
this is probably my favorite group to ever come on middle ground because they were all so open and attentive the whole time. they weren't shouting over each other and they were willing to hear everyone through. carly admitting she didn't know a solution is such a nice thing to see because that is a VERY hard thing to do. all around a really nice group of people
They were all very respectful and mature. Appreciated that.
this is one of the most beautiful conversions ive watched
I'd argue that vegans are more similar to hunters than they are to non-hunter meat eaters. I think that's why this video turned out so respectful.
It was respectful because the Vegans were completely non-confrontational and apologetic about the animal abuse.
I think youâre on to something.
Iâve hunted animals, cleaned their bodies, and eaten them. That level of intimacy makes you understand a being on a different level, and itâs part of why Iâm vegan now.
@@vegetable_shredder9306 yup, you are exactly right. As a vegan, I cringe at their responses. They got "pick me vegans" in this video, not actual vegan activists.
@@joshwarrey3728 no, they were just respectful. I suspect it had more of a positive effect on a larger population in terms of considering veganism than what You would have done. Please stop doing disservice to all of us by ânot being a pick me veganâ đđđ Pick up a psychology book, educate yourself if you really want to help the cause out. Sincerely, a fellow vegan psychologist who is tired of entitled, judgemental and rude vegans who have forgotten their past. Both of those hunters were willing to listen and learn, why would you want to turn them off by shaming and guilt tripping them?
@@Imponderabilia995 do you think being apologetic in front of meaflakes is respectful to the billions of animals being killed every year?
as a fellow indigenous person im so happy they included one of us to speak their mind.
I'm very interested on the indigenous topic. You as an Indian, do you think land should be taken back from people, and given back to A. Indians?
@@thenorthcarolinian6796 a lot of indigenous people do not like being called indian, native is a better term :)
@@nakia8014 Why should I care? I wouldn't care if someone calls my parents "immigrants". What if I prefer the term "non-natively born individual"? I don't give a dump.
@@thenorthcarolinian6796 because itâs disrespectful?
@@nakia8014 lol I don't care
What an excellent, respectful debate. Thank you, everyone. This was delightful to watch.
I love thisâŠa great way to have a meaningful and educational conversation without anger and hatred love this so much
This was such a wholesome video. I felt both sides were represented well and everyone was respectful.
The blonde lady that said âI mean there just animalsâ that line was so fucked up
@@hafsa1903 I mean they were respectful to each other. The politics of meat and animal killing is the topic so that's hardly a surprising stance.
Felt p good all-around, IMO.
@@hafsa1903 Well humans are animals
Why do people value so much "being respectful" I know it is a valuable trait to have and is to a certain degree admirable but we should strive for the TRUTH not for being polite or what not.
You know I noticed that the thumbnails show a lot of inherent bias from Jubilee. Usually the less liberal side is depicted in an argumentative position, while the liberal side is often soft or pensive. I understand it probably helps with the algorithm, but as someone who considers themselves progressive the number one thing that erks me is when people are not given equal chance of representation. The white women looked so angry in the thumbnail I was expecting disagreement and anger, but she was actually fairly understanding. I just think this is an inherent bias Jubilee should reflect upon.
True!!!
Thank you, Lauren!
the thumbnails are just to get views.
I agree that it can be extremely disheartening.
It's called clickbait
Everyone on this middle ground episode were very respectful and not one argument.. so refreshing đđ€
I really enjoyed this conversation, there's a lot to be learned here.
Sad that the image of veganism has been ruined by egoistic and disrespectful Individuals. When in fact veganism is more than simply not eating animals based products. If that image wasn't pushed into the public, I think people would be more willing to learn about it or at least respect it. Hopefully one day I can be one.
Itâs mainstream mediaâs portrayal of veganism. Whereas all of the vegans Iâve met are kind, understanding, and patient, they are often met with extreme criticism and ignorance from meat eaters. Iâve had people straight up come up to me and my partner and tell us our nonexistent children will be weak just from us ordering food. The only difference is that I do not then stereotype all omnivores that way.
Sad that itâs always the obnoxious and rude vegans who are the loudest. I personally love vegan channels who encourage and teach how to be vegan more than ppl like the vegan teacher
Think about it this way- the most problematic people from any subculture are always the ones you hear most about. People living by example and minding their own are not the type of people making the news, uploading videos, being influencers, etc.
@@milliem9816
I'm a vegan and wasn't kind, understanding and patient during a big portion of being vegan! And I think this isn't an uncommon thing. I became vegan pretty young and was very, very passionate about my beliefs, so passionate that it won out over rational compassionate understanding for other people sometimes. Now I understand that not everyone sees the world through my lens and that a lot of people don't have the means, energy, time etc. to become vegan or change their purchasing habits to be more sustainable in any big way, even if they would like to. I think it's good to acknowledge that "annoying vegans" exist, but to be compassionate to them too, because many of them are probably just very passionate about their beliefs.
Every anti-oppression movement has face the same hurdles, veganism is no different, maybe spend time actually being a vegan and see for yourself
I loved Brittanyâs insight. Iâm so glad an indigenous person was on this episode.
yeah I wish we would've heard more from her, Carly was always so quick to get in the conversation! Not that what she was saying wasn't interesting but, you know..
You know, I was born in the United States. That makes me indigenous too.
@@donmiller2908 haw haw haw funny guy
@@nathanpeck2817 @Nathan Peck - I wasn't trying to be funny, I was making a point. Instead of going along with the herd I try and think for myself. Because someone calls a group indigenous and insinuates they are somehow special doesn't mean it's true. In the dictionary I use, indigenous means "relating to or being a people who are the original, earliest known inhabitants of a region"
So where did people originally come from?
Based on archaeological and anthropological evidence, scientists have established that hominids diverged from other primates somewhere between 2.5 and 4 million years ago in eastern and southern Africa. So Africans are indigenous, everyone else are merely migrants.
In Canada we call them First NationsâŠyou know cause First.
carly gave me a new perspective on hunting and im so glad i watched this video!
I came to this video because Iâve been vegan for 10 years, but I come from a family of hunters and fishers. Some of my best childhood memories were of my Dad taking me out of school and us going up North on fishing trips. Itâs a deep tradition we shared and It fills my heart with joy to remember those times.
As a teen, I learned more about animal welfare and it really bothered me seeing so many people not think about, care about, or even consider the lives they took when they bought at a grocery store and I was also horrified at the concept of factory farming and how brutal that is.
I went vegan and have stayed that way until now. I still eat vegan, but recently my Dad has started to have a decline in mobility as heâs getting older. He has never agreed with me being vegan, but has always respected it. He has invited me on a fishing trip this summer since he may not be able to do it much longer and you know what? I told him yes. I love mây dad even though we are different and I know how much it would mean to him. I havenât told him yet, but I think when I go I will try to eat a piece of fish with him that we caught together. I donât think I will ever buy meat from a store again, but I think if you are respecting the animals, respecting life and nature, culture and tradition, I think maybe there is a middle point
absolutely adore this response
Me too.
So wholesome
Everyone was so respectful and well-spoken in this episode!
Yeah
Yeah so bored
(just kidding)
Oh except for the white woman saying people in China eat dogs and people in African villages are poor and need the tourism from hunters and poachers
Yes! They were awesome!
I came to comment the same thing!
âBambi doesnât existâŠâ đđ
Ninađ
Bambiâs mom doesnât exist x2
We all know what she meant thoughâŠ
@@lostchanceman Double homicide
That was the stupidest question of the video lmaoo
This was so nice to watch. Everyone was trying to share information without condemning the other
As though I don't a 100% agree with Carly I LOVE how passionate she is & how respectul she acts. Truly a classy woman ! âš
Wow, finally a CORDIAL and respectful debate about veganism... I loved how understanding they were of each other.
Being a vegetarian, I can also understand and respect people who ethically hunt. The issue lies with industrial farming.
the bigger issue you should say... doesn't mean hunting isn't an issue
"Hunting ethically", what a complete oxymoron. These people do not have to hunt to survive at all, with all their effort and choice they seem to have they're doing to make sure they murder innocent non-human animals is very repulsive and they could sure use that same effort to very much sustain themselves without innocent victims being involved, (Which they do not do :)). Therefore there is nothing to "see" through people who couldn't care less about the lives they unnecessarily take, and one of who just uses descriptions of "forming a relationship" or "bond" with her murdered corpse... Perhaps we should be strongly encouraging the opposite and not appeasing to this type of violence, wouldn't you agree?
@@lerapol Hmm.... Seems like you should grab a dictionary. Killing an animal is not murder, and it can never be. It's disrespectful to say that killing an animal is murder when murder only applies to humans killing other humans. And since you think that you have no right to call someone else a moron. -.-
@Vegan Babie I.... Never said that. A human killing an animal for food is different from a human killing another human with evil intent...;-;
@@gunforall6247 the definition of "murder" as you like to claim, does not only mean the killing of a member of the human species... that is just one of the definitions that you seem to have chosen. Many dictionaries (such as Merriam Webster) also state "to slaughter wantonly" or "to put an end to" with the intent to slaughter etc. So it very much can also apply to conscious beings.
And offensive to who? If they're offended at what's happening to animals, then I absolutely would be extremely offended with them. Though offense alone isn't enough to justify something, now is it?
I cried when the alaskan girl said her land gets stolen all the time. I'm from the Philippines and poor people in my country get their land taken away by greedy politicians very often. I hear stories of poor, old farmers who own generations of land get killed because they won't sell or leave their land :((
I feel you. Here in Palestine, we have that in a differently twisted way.
hi! i just wanna say i think your content is fire :D (im from the Philippines too :P)
@@zionzion2984 aww, thanks!
@@krispy_rice9044 I'm sorry your people have to got through that too. but I'm curious, how so?
Yea thatâs why we have guns if your not willing to die for it then itâs not important
Can you please provide unedited versions too? I REAAAALLLYYYY love what you guys are doing, but I want to see the entire conversation. Youre really doing a service to humanity with these dibates!
this is the most harmony group discussion for 'middle ground'. everyone is open to listen
I think this is the most understanding cast there has ever been. Really enjoyable to watch
I was thinking the same thing, definitely a nice change from the more rigid groups in other conversations. It's amazing that actual communication is now surprising đ
i think this mightâve been better if we had 3 farmers who provided meat for companies like tysons instead of 3 hunters. most vegans have problems with the meat industry, not hunting
YES! because at the end hunters and vegans have the same âenemyâ
I have problems with the meat industry, for sure, but I also have problems with hunters who do it for sport, pleasure, or a feeling of dominance over animals. Also, unless youâre an excellent shot, shooting down an animal is not the most humane way of killing them.
How you know what most vegans think
@@RainWalking it's well known that many if not most vegans (me included) are accepting of hunting because it's the most sustainable and a way more ethical way of eating meat.
ALL ANIMALS ARE CONSCIOUS
HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES
ANIMAL PRODUCTS ARE ABUSE
Awesome discussions, great cast of people, well done! â€
I think this might of been my favourite talk so far wow
After watching Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy, we can all agree hunting itself is not the problem, especially if it is for survival. The meat industries and fisheries are the ones we should be addressing.
Could we have a middle ground between animal activists and representers of any of the leading industries in Meat?
great video tho
Exactly!
Definitely should be "Conspirasea"
I doubt someone from those industries would ever debate. At the end itâs an industry, they do it for money.
Seaspiracy made me cry :(
Both cowpiracy and seapiracy have been criticised by scientists (including those whose data was used in these movies) for containing a lot of misinformation and bias. But I agree with the point of your comment
Nina: âThe definition of Veganism is doing what is practicable and possible and just trying your best.â
Erin: âThatâs not VEGAN!â
WHO IS ERIN?
@@damarisespiritu6440 watch odd man out vegan edition
fr đ
@@sumukhshirodker I just watched it for a hundred times cause of Erin haha đ
I love this discussion! Everyone seems educated and understanding of the other partâs point of view
This was a great conversation. Well done.
I love that they had Indigenous recognition. Hunting is a connection to the land in many Indigenous cultures. I wish people talked more about how ethic harvesting and hunting is not just practice, itâs a way of life- itâs spiritual and itâs in our blood. Many indigenous communities lack the resources such as financial need to get store-bought food, and hunting is for survival. Also, we use EVERY SINGLE PART of the animal, and then get rid of the less useful body parts in a respectful manner
Iâm not trying to start a fight but. Donât they use all of the body parts of the animals?? Like in the slaughter houses. I could be wrong
@@ematic0054 do they the bones too though? also, i donât think they discard of unused pieces in the respectful way we do, or see animals as equals the same way we view other humans as âequals.â I understand what youâre trying to ask, but slaughter house vs. living off the land with culture are completely different. To be honest, you need to experience the cultures yourself to truly understand what I mean by respectful harvesting of animals & having that connection to animals.
But thatâs not really the point. The point is, just like languages & oral history & sacred land, hunting and the use of natural resources play a vital role in keeping our once-dying-cultures alive. Due to colonization, many indigenous groups lost their culture so having the option to hunt is pretty much necessary to cease the ongoing genocide/assimilation of indigenous peoples. Luckily, in the past years a lot of younger generations have been making an effort to revitalize the identity that had been stolen đ
By the way, I donât take offence. Jubilee is literally a place for safe conversations with differing opinions so the comments should be the same âșïž
@@kelly9239 Oh
@@ematic0054 they use all the parts because they didnât want to waste anything out of respect for the animalsâŠ
@@ematic0054they didnât slaughter horsesâŠ
This was actually a really good conversation. I feel like both sides can agree that the biggest problem here are slaughter houses and meat factories.
No the biggest problem is taking the like of an innocent being
@@Mfchannel1001 The biggest problem is nosy people not minding their own business
@@Mfchannel1001 did you not watch the video
the problem is humans seems like
@@isaiahhouston228 Ok mr reptile
That was a truly beautiful conversation.
Everyone was so respectful I love this!