I went from TPI to TBI (and back to TPI) - KTM Throttle Body Injection REVIEW
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2021
- There's a lot of speculation about what KTM is going to do in 2023; will they change the entire two-stroke lineup to be a throttle body injection? That is the question. How will they get around emissions regulations in Europe? What does this mean to TPI going forward? #TBI #ktm #2023
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Latest Update: I was chasing an inconsistent idle with the TBI setup. After full throttle, when coming to a stop, or going on steep downhills, the idle would drop pretty low. To prevent it from stalling, I would turn the idle screw up. This had the bike idling a little too high in other situations, and I think it was causing the ECU to run in a richer portion of the map. The bike was pretty blubbery/rich down low (see my latest snow riding vid). So I'm back to TPI for the moment! 😂 Oh, and since then, I've found that the "hesitation" I noticed as a TPI was just needing a new CCPS. So we're back to running perfectly, but as a TPI with a great consistent idle and no stalling, and without that extra bit of low end torque that the TBI offers. 🤷♂️
Try racing ECU, higher compression head and open up some way at the air filter so it can take more air, i have seen people who race do this to make the bike run properly
@@buuuu7691 I can't imagine it is starving for air at idle, which seems to be part of the issue but not all of the issue. You might be onto something though.
Put an RK Tek head on. That will fix that lack of bottom end jump.
Did you play with a bypass screw to adjust the idle after screw in the throttle itself? I am on the exact situation now,since installing a relocation kit.I’d play with a bypas screw and idle gettin better.
They now sell a split kit for an additional $20. I wonder how that compares.
This is the first review I have seen of this brand injector relocation kit. Sounds like you are happy with the performance.
I also ran my KTM with TBI and TPI back to back. I experienced the same issues...stalling on descents and more wheel spin. I found the wheel spin issue to be my fault. I wasn't used to having slightly more power thus had to re-learn my throttle control. I did that and turned up my idle a bit and have been happy with it. I find the TBI is smoother and easier to control when it really counts. For me the benefits outweighed the negatives
Thanks for doing this review. Very informative. 👍🏻
I thought so too. I own a 2020 tpi and my buddy has been telling me about the tbi - interesting to see it described.
I did the same to my 20' 300xcw.
I tried the get race kit, swapped to the sure shot. I have to say my bike ran horrible. Low end power was weaker, had a bad off idle stumble and a lot of stalling out.
I wasn't the only one, found several others on the forums that encountered the same issues.
It seems all these tpi bikes run differently.
I went back to the stock setup, added a flywheel weight and a clutch weight and the bike runs great. I do have to mix in some octane boost to keep it from occasionally detonating.
Where we ride here in Western Alberta, two seasons sneak up on us like that: When things green up in rainy June and when things get slick late fall. Usually a good scare reminds a guy lol.
Great vid and explained clearly ,I have a few carbed 18 /19 ktm/Husky 2 strokes with aftermarket heads and keihen carbs with a Stic module fitted which run very smooth with good torque minimal pipebang etc ,I don’t do big elation changes or temp ( 5 deg C-30 -C usually ) so for me this setup works well ,if I was doing big elevation changes etc TBI would be the way to go ,whether you go carb or FI you need to spend a few dollars to get the best out of these bikes if u are anal how they ride/run .👍
I just got a 2022 gas gas EX250
Absolutely love it. Runs perfect. I don't like doing mods unless they're really needed. But that's just me.
I installed the Athena re-location kit on my KTM 2019 300xcw along with Athena traction control and high compression head and had Slaven’s tune the Athena ECU and this is a new bike as far as I’m concerned. I can start in 3rd gear and almost never shift, it’s like an automatic or electric bike. Glad I made the change. Thanks for the video, good info.
Any more details on this. There’s not a lot of info on CZcams for this kit. Trying to do this on my ‘20 Ktm 300xc
@@Bearingguy If you go to Slaven’s Racing they have a good bit of info and videos on the system. Not sure how the 2020’s have there cylinders setup but I suspect there the same if they offer the re-location kit for that year. Fairly easy to install and Slaven’s will program the Athena ECU for you if that’s what you plan on using. Talk to Alec at Slaven’s he’s the guru when it cones to all that.
@@prestonthomas9406 thanks man
Great video. How does the oil injection work with TBI?
TBI can run premix...with TPI you have to have oil injection. TBI was OEM on 2 stroke sleds in 1992. Before that on outboards and was aftermarket for sleds in late 80s.
I liked your review, I’ve also used the JD tuner to play with my 250 TPI, helpful tool indeed. Which tune is loaded from the dealer on your bike, curious on your baseline tune, prior to the JD enrichment device? Nice to know that it works with the pulse timing of TPI while being setup on a TBI, cool!!
I have the latest 103 “extreme” map
This is great info for anyone considering converting. I'm not sure how much this kit will compare directly to a factory TBI bike tho.
No doubt a factory TBI will have the ecu optimized for it, among other changes - but this runs pretty darn good as it is.
WOW, that last 1.5 min of riding in Jurassic Park looked AWESOME!
I got a 2021 te300i. mine had that hesitation or maybe slightly loading up. I got it running extremely good now I put a bpr7eix plug in. If I remember right it came out the box set at .028 and the book recommendations is something like .024 so I set it to the book, I could be slightly off on those numbers but just set it to the bike specs. also I installed the red spring in the power valve and a quick power valve adjuster so you can adjust it by hand without shutting the bike off. you can still adjust the red spring to be mild and smooth if you want it, its way better than the stock spring. I turned the air screw to 3 1/2 to 4 turns out. it still has that really nice low end power to get you going on hills and over bad roots but is very crisp and instant when you twist the throttle.
TPI is TRANSFER PORT INJECTION;
TBI is Throtle body injection.
TPI needs separate oil injection to lubricate de crank.
TBI can use pre-mixed fuel to lubricate the crank.
TBI is just an advanced carburetor, including automatic pressure+temperature adjustment. And lots of electronics. Any sense for a hobby-bike...?
In my opinion TPI is the best compromise for this pupose; better fuel consumption/emissions by using cheap automotive technology. Only disadvantage is the need of external oil supply.
Based on the critical nature of oil injection that alone would make me run TBI with premix.
I'd love for you to ride my 2020 TE300i to compare. Mine has zero hesitation......but I also have a Coober ECU and RK TEK head. If you head near Spokane let me know! I'll show you some hard enduro after snow/ice is gone.
Nice review. Thx. What was the wiring running next to throttle? It appeared to move when the throttle grip moved. Thx
Heated grips
I have the 22 300xcw with a little over 30 hours and a 13 300xcw with about the same hours 😎… Power on the carb model is bigger but I prefer the smoothness and much calmer power of the 22 for tight rocky single track. I do big elevation changes so it’s hard to beet the TPI. I feel peak rpm power is the same on both but the carb bike is more in its element on wider open terrain where big hills are involved. Almost as if the carb bike has a small supercharger and the TPI is more electric.
hey good info, thanks. also what was that led indicator with your rpm? and what sort of phone mount is that?
It's a JD Tuner, and phone mount is a Perfect Squeeze
Hi did you try moving only one of the injectors? I did it this way and I am pretty happy with overall performance...
Yes I’m running a hybrid setup now and am liking it better than either other way so far.
When you install TBI system ju mixing gas with oil or bike continues do this like in tpi system
I brought this mod up for the TPI guys in our group and I kind of got some slack from them over it... Mostly because I said if I had a TPI bike I'd do this conversion.
Since I don't have a TPI bike, I've decided to try the new Lectron Billetron 38 carb. Word is it produces better low-end power and over all throttle response and I'm all about that.
If what I’ve experienced is anything like what factory KTM is doing, I can see why the factory racers have gone this direction. 👍
@@WASemiHardEnduro Since I've heard about factory TBI, I've had a feeling it'll be coming out on the "completion only" machines, at least initially.
@@WASemiHardEnduro I would be all over a TBI bike 6 months ago when I bought the TM if one was available. At the time only TPI and its not there for performance, its primary role is emissions. Had I known 2022 TM's would have TBI I likely would have bought one. I love fuel injection and the ability to map to suit preference. I don't like forced unchangeable oil injection to meet emissions at the potential cost in engine longevity. TBI seems the solution to this.
I just fitted that Billetron to my 21 TM a couple days ago and love it. I couldn't get the jetting quite right on the keihin. Get it smoothed out and crisp and it would get really hot in the gnarly stuff, go a little richer and a lot of spooge and smoke for those following. Start with recommended settings re idle jet, needle type, clip position etc etc then someone says oh yeah, you can't get jetting right because the slide is too rich at 6.5, you need a 7.5 ... Just gave me the shits. Anyway my normal loop uses about 6-7 liters of the 9 litre tank. Yesterday I used about 3.5 litres. A third of the way through it boiled over on a nasty climb, once it cooled off took a few minutes to richen up the metering rod 1/4 turn and half turn on the idle to compensate for the extra fuel and no temperature issues after that. I never tried the original so nothing to compare it to however its smooth and linear so even if I use a bit more throttle it doesnt make it twitchy
@@1Beetlegeuse I bruised my sternum & ribs on the first real ride with the Billetron 🙄 So I've only had limited time running with it, but I really like how it made the bike feel. I may need to lean the metering rod a bit, I'll know more once I heal.
TBI use electronic power valves.
Did you try adjusting your power valve on your mechanical PV ?
For every video out there about tpi I feel like the value of my 18 300w goes up $50🤘
Wanna trade? lol.
ok boomer
You missed the point of the video if that is your take away. Your 18 isn’t worth much either. Don’t believe me? Try to sell it then.
The bike sounds more responsive with the kit installed for sure. I have a feeling the new TBI models will be a big step forward for the KTM brand bikes. It's probably not a coincidence KTM is releasing this now with both Sherco and Beta poised to release FI two strokes soon.
TM this year switched from TPI to TBI. It’ll be interesting to see what the other manufacturers do.
Where have you heard beta and sherco releasing FI 2strokes? Sherco have had the kit for years and haven’t bothered with it because the carb is better … Ktm we’re forced to put it on there bikes because of EU regs with the amount of bikes they sell here … that is all
I hope not they were my fall back bikes when i need to upgrade my 2018 300 🤦🏼♂️😂
@@247enduro arent france and italy part of the EU?
@@gixxxer1k yepp but sherco and beta etc don’t sell anywhere near as much as Ktm so don’t have the same restrictions
Greg, have you tried the "Race" edition? I've been watching your videos and you've got me convinced to try a Sherko. But I'm looking at 250 SE Race edition. OC, KYB forks and a little less bling. Was wondering if you felt the CC, KYB's were a must? (MY 2022)
I think you’re looking for @PNW Enduro channel 🤣
Oof
Love my 2023 sherco 250 carb bike. Turns like a knife. Runs great
Just noticing the sharp edged plastics at the middle of the seat do you find that your gear gets caught on that or does it jam into your knees?
No issues at all - that junction is smooth - nothing sticks out to catch gear or boots.
I ended up going full premix, best running bike I have ever rode, I have had several Smartcarb bikes and fuel injected 4ts. I have never rode anything as clean running as turning the Tpi to premix
Hey JD where are you running the injectors? TP or TB? I’m on the fence what way to go. Having the same off idle hesitation and it bugs me.
@@j-moto1215 I am currently running the Sureshot block relocation with stock mapping, I have ordered the TSP hybrid setup with one TPi injector and the other in the airboot where the air sensor is, it will also be remapped and vforce reeds, wont have a review until around March when the weathers warms in IA.
@@jdracing551 awesome that’s the route I’m going too. Can I ask why the switch? I bunch of friends are running that same kit and love it but I’m unsure.
@@j-moto1215 on my bike it mishaped my airboot bad enough that my cover for washing doesn’t seal.
Makes sense, stoked to see how the hybrid kit works. Cheers for the replies !
Hi, I've installed such a system to my ktm exc 250 year 2020. Could you give me some advice what I can do to make my ktm work more smoothly. When I have it at high speed everything is ok but when it works at low speed it seems to be flooded by petrol. Then I have to blow it so it is still working. I have to add that I haven't changed anything in the computer.
A bad CCPS can make it run super rich at lower RPMs. Replace it and see if it helps. Ultimately I removed the TBI set up because I think the bike runs a little more crisp as a TPI (but less low end power).
I think the technology is great however I can’t bring myself to trade in my ‘19 300XC with SmartCarb for a TPI….
You're very lucky to have a 2019 KTM 300XC with a smart carb. I still have my old 2011 KTM 300XC with the Keihin carburetor but considering a smart carb even on a older Katoom!!!
Have you tried the sliber turbo reflash of the ECU and a higher comp head? Curious if you have tried that to compare - i'd say my 300 runs 99% at least with those mods.
No I haven’t. I heard TSP is working on a TBI -specific tune though, which would be interesting to try.
@@WASemiHardEnduro meet up at walker, or east side and try mine, it'd wbe a good comparison.
In your video you made no mention of premix oil to your gas, so I assume that you are letting the ECU control oil delivery. I previously heard that less oil may be delivered with TPI as you don't have the gas wash on bottom end. Now you have changed to TBI any concerns with proper bottom end lubrication? Did you consider going entirely to premix and block off oil pump delivery? Wouldn't that remove the potential for engine failure due to oil pump failure?
I ran premix at around 120:1 while I had the TBI setup, and I left the factory oil injection in place. I've heard many different theories that the bottom end won't get enough lubrication with the factory oiling alone, which is why I did that. I have no idea how to validate how true that is however. I did not even consider going 100% premix only, because I don't see the factory oil injection as a problem - in fact I like the convenience of it. As of now, TBI kit has been removed, and I'm back to TPI/stock.
How much is the kit?
Alright so after initially being offended that my 2022 ktm 300xc could not better, I have come to the conclusion that TBI might be worth trying. Do you have a link to this product? I saw one on Ebay but it had no named brand. The other one from best dual sport or whatever seems to be out of stock. Not so sure about the GET model with all the hoses. Any help please?
My understanding is the eBay one from ukraine is the original product, and last I checked it was in stock. The GET relocation block, according to Athena, was designed the way it is because it offered the best flow - however it looks like a hot mess of hoses. I'm of the opinion now that you might want an ECU tune that is specifically customized to the TBI setup, so the GET ECU + Relocation might be the way to go, but it's so expensive that not many try it.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Thanks...I was actually about to call Best Dual Sports and they had one left and I snagged it. You just did a Jackson tuner, right? You suggest to get a GET ECU as well? I'll look at them.
did u try ur green and yellow and red springs with new reed valve intake?
I haven't tried different springs, but I've adjusted the PV screw extensively. I really like how the bike transitions into the powervalve right now, so I doubt I'll change the springs. RE: reeds - you have to use the stock reeds with the injector relocation block.
Thaks for your review!
I'm not sure to understand... at minute 3:10 you tell that you install the TBI kit for handful rides and then you went back to TPI.
At minute 5:10 you tell that you re-install the TBI because you would like to reach again the "99%"...
Right now, are you still with TBI kit?
Correct. Went from TPI to TBI, back to TPI, then finally back to TBI again, and sticking with TBI for now. I felt like this was the best way to truly judge the differences.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Yes, I agree. Thanks!
@@WASemiHardEnduro Just a question, do you removed the thermostatic valve?
@@sberga5058 No, and you shouldn't remove the thermostat on a TPI.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Yes, you have right. I've removed but in the winter I see that the engine is not working well (Husky TE 250 2020). Thanks!!!
Great video. Where is the oil injector located please?
Stock oil injection is in the throttle body. It isn’t changed with this kit.
Hey, hanks for a great vid!
Do you think TBI wih pump should run 1/100 premix? isnt oil from pump dissolved by fuel after relocation of injectors?
I run relocation kit with no changes to electronics and get unstable torque at mid rpm, several secons it sounds crappy and then crispy again. Any advice?
I’m not 100% sure - some think it’s necessary to run a little oil in your fuel, even if you keep the oil injection. I ran about 120:1 just to be safe, but I have no idea if it’s necessary.
Regarding your midrange: I didn’t experience that, but I had an unstable idle that I couldn’t solve. A bad CCPS could be the culprit; something to check.
I ultimately removed the TBI kit. I might reinstall it once TSP and/or others have a ECU tune specifically for it.
I made the switch to TBI (Athena) on my 2019 KTM 300XC-w TPI (21 hrs) and it’s been the most miserable mod that I’ve done on this bike since purchase. I can ride it for 10 or 15 minutes of easy trail riding, shut down for a few minutes, try to restart and the thing fouls the plug every time. It is so unreliable that I don’t even use it for trail riding any longer. I’ve contacted the company that I purchased it from (Slaven’s Racing) and they remapped the ECU twice without any change. Even tried to contact Athena for some of their wisdom (no help there). So now I’m at the point of going back to TPI and see if that eliminates the fouling or else put a for sale sign on the thing and go back to Japanese bikes (really frustrating). Nice to see someone thats switched and having good success with it, wish I could say the same. Thanks for a well done informative video.
I went back to stock too. It was just too inconsistent as a TBI. Very happy with the John Ross tune and regular TPI.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Was it fouling plugs also?
@Preston Thomas No, it mainly had an inconsistent idle. It would almost stall going downhills so I had to turn the idle way up, but then it would be too high other times. It was also pretty rich off-idle - if I didn't have the JD Tuner, it might have fouled plugs.
What's funny is everyone points out tpi at times runs at 80:1 while idle to close to half throttle. But runs more like 40:1 at 1/2+. But the new TBI Bikes wan't a 60:1 premix ratio. So when it really counts... They are running 60:1 instead of 40-ish. Thats whats great about TPI. Get a new flash if you like. But you can taylor make it what you want with tpi.
The connector to the oil pump is directly above the reed block and this relocation block is rather tall and appears will be in conflict. A photo from the website shows the oil pump removed from its original location and zip tied somehow. What did you do to have this all fit? This relocation block seems to be much more compact design comparted to the GET. I also heard from Boyesen saying that they are currently testing a relocation block of their own. Currently you have to run the stock reeds with this or the GET relocation block.
I didn't have to do anything special to make it fit. The oil hose just goes right over the top of the block (in between the injectors).
@@WASemiHardEnduro I have a 2019 KTM XCW and the update for 20+ moved the injector out and out of the way. I don't think that this tall injector relocation block will work for the 2018-2019. I haven't yet figured out a workaround and don't want to drop double for the GET one.
Does it feel more like a carbed bike? It definitely sounds richer down low to mid
Yes it did. It even loaded up on me once, which it has never done as a TPI.
Can someone explain how TBI would be better for emissions than a traditional carb that uses vacuum to suck just the right amount of fuel. Seems like TBI is a computer guessing the best amount of fuel to put into the throttle body in the same spot as a traditional carby would. I'm sure there is a technical reason but I'm not that technical.
EFI uses several sensors to determine the right amount of fuel to inject at each moment, under any condition, and the mapping is tuned for thousands of combinations of throttle position, RPM, ambient temp, engine temp, etc. A carb has basically only 3-4 different circuits for adjusting fuel - yes it’s vacuum operated, but it doesn’t have the precision to provide optimal fueling under every possible condition.
Why is your clutch cable routed that way? Is there a specific reason?
It’s stock
After installing the plate was it hard to get the plastic boot to compress.
Nope. Little tricky getting everything to fit, but the airboot was easy.
Did you swapout throttle eccentric that comes with the Bike for the more aggressive one ?
No just left the standard one in
@@WASemiHardEnduro i just Bought a 2023 TE 300 He . Lots of Mods to install “ PinIT RB ,PC pipe, Silencer Extension (SA) Idle Screw mod , , not much of a HardE rider so im more interested in HP gains etc, my Ecu ReFlash is my biggest concern.
So if the injectors are moved to basically when fuel would enter like in a carby bike ,how does this affect oil injection , isn't it going to run leaner.
In theory, same amount of fuel and same amount of oil are being injected.
@@WASemiHardEnduro and that might be an issue cos the fuel is washing out the oil, and making it even leaner I would of thought.?
Did you consider a gearing change to tame the low end?
No, I like the stock TX gearing. The improved low-end w/ the TBI kit just takes some adjustments in riding technique to prevent wheelspin.
You think this would work with stock ecu? I have a 22.
I have the stock ecu, works fine. You may want the JD Tuner though, so you can fine-tune the fueling.
Does this retain the stock injection? No mixing gas still?
Yes, you can retain the stock oil injection. Or with a TBI setup, you can safely remove the OI and run premix if you want. I went back to the stock TPI setup as this kit was too inconsistent.
what kind of mount for your phone on the bike?
Perfect Squeeze by Hondo Garage use “SemiHardEnduro” for a discount!
And have you deleted the oil pump with the TBI set up and ran mix in the tank ?
No, I plan to keep it. Oil injection is too convenient, and I see no reason to delete it.
@@WASemiHardEnduro ok for me it would be more convenient to be able to refuel my chainsaw easily like I used to from my carb bike. Than there is Reliability but really I'm not too worried about that
Can u detail me how u mounted JD TUNER? Like it.
Some 3M Dual Lock on the steering head is all I used.
Hey thanks for posting this. I’m a little late to the party but I was unaware that tbi conversion was a thing.
I’m glad it’s serving you well, it’s way more appealing to me. So do you premix?
Nope still using the oil injection. I e also switched to using 1 TPI injector and 1 TBI injector - runs more consistently that way.
A dynojet power commander will give you more tuning options to be able to tune in some traction control with fuel and ignition. An extreme enduro head may help a bit also.
Are you adding any oil to your fuel, or have the extreme enduro factory map which adds oil?
I wasn’t aware you could do traction control with the PC5. With how well it’s currently running, I have no desire to really tinker with it any more, but who knows!
I have the 103 “extreme” map on it. I tried running 120:1 oil in the tank, but not sure if it’s necessary w the 103 map.
@@WASemiHardEnduro you can't do traditional traction control, but through tuning you can setup a second milder tuned map.
What’s the name of this kit? Or is there any link that I can use to purchase?
This was the Sureshot kit, which I've since removed. I'd recommend the TPITuning flash before you go with a relocation kit.
For another $20 you can try split TPI/TBI which puts one injector at each location. That’s what they recommend for enduro riding.
Been running the split kit for a while. So far I'm liking it.
How that type of injector relocation feels compared to complet TPI conversion?
What are you using to mount your phone?
Motominded Stout Mount and HondoGarage Perfect Squeeze
Have you tried the TSP head and tune?
Nope. Not yet.
My bike no work with relocation kit
Do you have to oil injection delete when installing this?
No, I hate mixing gas 🤣
How sell those kits? Where I can find it?
I have
very interesting. right now I'm enjoying my Lectron carb...someday (hopefully soon) I will be on an Injected 2 stroke.
If I had a carb bike, I’d probably have to go lectron or smart carb - I hate jetting!
So why did you go with this vs something like the tsp kit
Mainly just wanted to experiment with it. I’m sure the tsp kit is great, I know guys that have it and love it.
I'm not connecting how 'more complete mix of air and fuel' results in LESS efficient burning.
Look up scavenging. The closer you can get an injector to the combustion chamber, the more more accurately you can time the injector pulse to when the exhaust port has closed. This reduces how much unburnt air+fuel escapes right out the exhaust port. Good for emissions, good for economy. Not the best for power or response, because that fuel hasn’t had adequate time to fully mix with the incoming air charge.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Ah, so, accurate timing comes at the expense of complete mix. Well mixed happens further away so the timing is less perfect.
It sounded in the vid like you said "more complete mix is less efficient", but I could have mixed up "less unburnt fuel escaping".
@@CommieHunter7 that is what I said. TBI has a more complete mix (in theory), but it’s less efficient from an emissions perspective because some of that mix goes straight out the exhaust port.
@@WASemiHardEnduro yep. I didn't understand the difference based on the vid, but your comments clear it up for sure.
@@whiskey_throttle_racing7461 4t engines are different (you know, those two extra strokes). DI works well on two strokes, but is complex and top-heavy and packaging makes it less practical on a dirt bike (watercraft & snowmobiles use DI, but some use secondary injectors in the crankcase).
One of the most important aspects of TBI is that you get better bottom end bearing lubrication. This I think is one of the main reasons KTM went back to TBI. I would never have a TPI bike mainly because of this one failing.
You had a TPI bottom end fail? I’ve honestly never heard of a TPI bottom end failure that wasn’t drowning related.
@@WASemiHardEnduro That's exactly right; the failure is that anything someone says on the internet must be true even without any factual information. To add on the TPI and how good it really is, when we're performing top end rebuilds, the cylinders look great. So TPI is showing to be a very good system but the few that did fail (and who knows the real reason why they failed) are being bastardized on the internet. Now that KTM has introduced TBI on the market, it might be a better system overall, but to your point about traction and how TPI actually works in a funny great way, that will always be true. I like the way the TPI systems are not so harsh when you're in the loose nasty stuff. Great video and the way you explained everything was really done professionally. Great show.
I have a 2014 EFI sport bike and hate that I have to spend crazy amounts of money on some convoluted tuner when I could change jets/needle and get on with my life.
If I were to adopt more electrical garbage in my life, TPI actually has innovative features in comparison.
In China they have vary strong emmision laws /restrictions . All that Electric bla bla bla ! Sold my China bike and got me a cr125 simple lightweight. No overkill. 62 yr old mech😎
The issue I’m currently trying to solve is the tpi bikes being quite lame vs the carb models. My yz250x pulls like a freight train compared to the 2020 250 tpi I’ve been riding
I think it’s just the smoothness/lack of hit that makes them feel slower.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Yes, I've had several YZ250s and remember trying my brothers 05 300XCW when I had my 05 YZ250 and thinking my YZ felt like it had more power. Now that I've spent so many years on both, I can attest to the YZ's feeling rippier but the 300's having more power.
Where we can bay this system?
eBay - Search: "TPI Injector relocation"
I run TBI and TPI on my ec300. Makes more power and more reliable
As a tBi is it therefore pre mix??
You can run premix and delete the oil injection with TBI, but I am not.
@@WASemiHardEnduro ok I'm looking at getting a new bike and I'm still in the classic tpi or carb dilemma (essentially beta 300 RR or KTM 300 exc). Now hearing they are moving away from tpi to tbi makes me even more hesitant lol
I saw billy bolt riding a tbi husky on youtube if i'm not mistaken.
He and the rest of the factory guys have been running TBI for two seasons now.
@@WASemiHardEnduro Mostly for testing, they don't run it in all races. They run the tpi bikes most of the time from what I've observed.
@@rztrzt Mani ran TPI, but Billy/Gomez ran TBI pretty much exclusively this year.
@@WASemiHardEnduro It wasn't exclusive, they ran two different bikes.
Look up two stroke performance from Australia new TBI system
Yup seen it
Shouldn't blip the throttle when warming up a tpi/tbi bike
My TBI seems to like an occasional blip of the throttle while warming up, or else it starts to load up. My TPI did not need to be blipped at all while warming up.
Pretty cool but if you have ever ran a perfectly jetted carb with a Stic metering block nothing comes even close.
Has this conclusion come after riding all the options back to back? TPI, TBI, TSP, smart carb, lectron.
Honesty everyone is worried about bottom end feel from the tpi, riding a tbi bike won’t help you get up a hill that you don’t already make on the tpi
I think a lot of people
Have been brainwashed thinking carbys are the gift from god 😂
All this complexity for what,emissions?
Im not budging from my Yamaha yz250 X and my rieju MR300PRO, carb is still the better option imho
TPi is not going anywhere. Maybe we will see TBI for the SX bikes but no way they are dropping TPi on enduro bikes. Not sure where you are getting your info from.
The factory enduro racers have been running TBI for 2 years now.
So because some of the factory guys have been running TBI test mule rigs with premix you think that means TPI is going away? TBI won’t pass Euro5 regulations. If they run TBI for 23 or 24 it will be on closed course competition bikes like the SX and XC models. You’re on KTMTalk too much😂
Where is the press release about TBI on the 22 TM’s. I thought it was just speculation and rumours based on a photoshopped bike. Neil, who’s version of TPi is based on was helping TM on their injected bikes. They were trying multiple injector set ups. More than 2 injectors.
@@cknymapleleaf I would think that a 3 injector system would be best. Regular TPI with a boost TBI injector.
Not sure why you’re arguing - I said that SX and XC are most likely to get it. XC-W is the question. We’ll see in six short months or so.
@@WASemiHardEnduro I don't expect any updates till 2024 if you look at historic update patterns.
Why would you even bother fucking with it ? Just ride it as it was made ! I’ve had several tpi bikes and I have no idea why people even mess with them
@@chadrides914 I don't know what manual you are reviewing but try 80 hours for top end depending on how things look. I've gotten 120 hours and things still looked like they could go another 20. Anyway, manual does NOT say replace top end every 10 to 40 hours.
@@whiskey_throttle_racing7461 ok. 80hrs they need top and bottom ends. Local dealers have said otherwise. Tops should be done on tpi’s in the 20hr range.
@@chadrides914 have a look at all of the other ridiculously short recommended service intervals for other parts of the bike , they base them on full blow racing situations not what the average rider is doing on them .
@@chadrides914 10 to 40 ? That’s a pretty fucking big gap in time ? Doesn’t sound like they would quote that . My tpis all said 80 and it’s like 40 for mx bikes .
@@Ozfreerider2504 80 was for the bottom end rebuild. So top would be 1/3 that.
If you are still running the TBI system I would remove it. Using the stock reed cage you stand a chance of the screws backing out and falling into the engine.. game over permanently. The GET is designed the same so I would stay away form these Products. Just go with the V force 4R 👍🏽
Think be easier to jet a carb bike properly! An rip !
8k bikes and they need all this messing to try get it running same as a well jetted carb bike 🤔
Try $11k….😉
And carb bikes especially need lots of work to run well.
I absolutely LOVE how KTM have messed about with this system from 2017 to now, still don't have a bike that runs right and owners keep giving them money for the bikes 🤣🤣🤣
K-eep
T-akimg
M-oney
🍋💸💵💷🍋
🤷🏻♂️I went back to stock and I’m still liking it. Room for improvement? Yes for sure. Is it bad stock? Nope, not at all.
@@WASemiHardEnduro
Still short on bottom end power compared to competitors bikes and way to many owners with issues and failures, like yourself...
Spent my money on great suspension, the bike runs perfect, this is a complete waste.
Mine ran really well before too, but I like it even better now. Not sure how that’s a waste.
What about putting on a FMF Gnarly pipe for more low end - do you think that’s a waste too?
@@WASemiHardEnduro yes... Suspension is everything.
@@billypulsipher7313 ok. So you run stock tires with your high dollar suspension? Stock tubes? Stock jetting on your carb’d bikes?
Suspension is great, no argument. But don’t tell me you don’t do other things to make your bike perform better.
@@WASemiHardEnduroyou should do more suspension testing videos is all I'm saying.
@@billypulsipher7313 I may not be the best person lol. I’ve had Xplor and AER, and ridden (briefly) Luckys and Dal Soggios. Honestly thought the AERs would just as good as the expensive setups. Granted they weren’t setup for my weight.
tpi just sounds better😂
TPI design sucks that's why KTM going to TBI. Good move but a bit late.
They will still have TPi alongside a new TBI system. TBI won’t pass EU emissions.
Yes ready to race !!!! 😂😂😂😂 12k then spend more money to get it almost ready 🤡 ktm husky 😂😂😂👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
If you know of a bike that is more “ready to race”, I’d like to hear it.
If you are still running the TBI system I would remove it. Using the stock reed cage you stand a chance of the screws backing out and falling into the engine.. game over permanently. The GET is designed the same so I would stay away form these Products. Just go with the V force 4R 👍🏽
I haven’t heard of that before, ever. I’m back to stock TPI for now.