aM disbanding is good news! | Town Center - Ep. #12
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- Happy Anniversary!
Welcome to our bi-monthly podcast format "Town Center" - where the lovely duo of @TheViperAOE & @MasmorraAoE discuss everything around the world of Age of Empires II.
Early access to the episodes on Spotify as part of a 1,99€ subscription (supporting the format and channel and completely optional!) and 48 hours after upload for free: open.spotify.com/show/0pv1c2C...
0:00 Intro & Agenda
5:40 RIP King of the Desert?
12:42 The untapped potential of Team Game tournaments
14:25 Warlords 3
21:28 2 large tournaments or 1 huge tournament?
27:47 Wouldn't you like to get 100k, Viper?
32:51 aM team disbands
40:33 New PUP: 2 very controversial new features
51:55 Sudden Dessaster
54:34 World Rumble 2
World Rumble: liquipedia.net/ageofempires/W...
Warlords 3: liquipedia.net/ageofempires/W...
We're excited for your feedback. Let us know what you think!
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Twitch: / gamerlegion - Hry
can we get MBL to the podcast
Do you want the podcast to be cancelled? 11
11 @@herotalib9556
I want MB 😢
Support comment on this.
Yesss
For viewers its just the number of tournaments matter. I don't care if it is $20,000 or $100,000 tournament. I will come out to watch a final between the lord and Lierrey
Same. And I think the top players will still play for $5k first place prize, doesn't always have to be $10k, $20k etc. Perhaps Hera and Viper might turn it down but I don't think so. It's not just the money, it brings more exposure too.
The thumbnail looks like a genuine reaction to patchnotes that involve "Fixes"
2V2 world cup was wildly popular, it was one of the most fun watches for a team-tournament. T90 and Dave combo does not hurt the viewer number either.
AOE player: building houses irl is way to hard: i expected to hit a foundation with a hammer for half a minute and be done.
And where are the scouts bashing their sword on the other side of the foundation??
Dunno if there are other podcasts dedicated to Aoe2, but this one sets a very high standard. Well done.
There are a few. In the episode with Dave he talks about his podcast. Also there is a German one which I don't remember the name of atm and paradox also has one called "Spec Chat".
@@GLAgeOfEmpires Start the game already, is the german one.
Whats the name of dave's podcast? Could not find it, thank you
Poop cast with bulletchen it's amazing. @@karnazacss
Congrats on 1 year! I've really enjoyed the "insider access" you both provide to the Age of Empires competitive scene as well as general commentary about AOE2. You create enough banter and personality to make the podcast shine! Thanks for the fun, and best wishes as you move forward.
T90´s 2v2 World cup finals was the first video I was recommended about age of empires after not playing for over 10 years and it made me fall in love with the game again. also have been a viper fan ever since that one haha
Same
pretty much exact same story for me!
same they need to revive that
Thank you for the episode. :)
From a dev side: working with old code is hard. Especially in gaming industry, where time is a very limiting factor and almost no tests exist.
Also working on different points in the code (new feature, fixing bugs) is mostly faster than all devs working on one problem. There you would be in each other's way.
Those teamgames always had crazy people in them that are exiting to cast and watch. Lyx, Mbl, Rubenstock. That make me rewatch old casts
Happy anniversary you cuties, Congratulations on your first year together😂
2v2 World cup needs to get brought back, best aoe2 team game content of all time!
We need auto repair next :D Toggle on a villager to have him automatically repair stuff in an area :D
btw the podcast looks/sounds as great as always despite them not being in the same room, i dont think it changes anything for this
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY GUYS! Thanks for all of the fascinating content and I hope the podcast continues to grow and succeed so we get more and more
Man, I would say I come for Masmorra because of the podcasts he was doing on his channel but last time I commented that I got a passive aggressive message from someone from GL... So, this time I will say I'm here for Masmorra and Vipy.
Not sure what comment you refer to, but I usually don't reply in a passive aggressive way
Woow chill with that passive aggressiveness
11 @@GLAgeOfEmpires
11 @@GLAgeOfEmpires
@@larsdonkor7943😂😂😂
7:55 Daaaamn I had to listen to this part several times, it sounded to me like "now that Hera is in jail" and I thought what tf has he done^^
Congrats on the anniversary!
agreed with the qa. last couple PUPs, i didn't even play a game, just started up campaign scenarios, skirmishes, scenario editor, etc, just trying to break the new features. It's relatively easy to find something. I'm just a rando, spent maybe 3-4 hours between the last two pups, found perhaps a dozen things between the two PUPs I reported on the forums. I haven't tried this latest PUP tho.
Congrats on the year!
great work as always
Great podcast! Congrats on 1 year!
Love this podcast guys ❤❤
I love the idea of more frequency on these 😊
That 2v2 final norway vs china is the most entertaining set of games I've seen so far. I think 2v2 and perhaps 3v3 tournaments have the potential to be super entertaining to watch and i wish tournament organisers would look more into it. 4v4 is chaos, it's hard to keep up with the action
Always nice to hear you bros
Thank you very much for the episodes. I love watching them, they are always interesting and both hosts and the previous guests were great
Happy anniversary!
Quality content as always. :)
I also came to the scene through Red Bull wololo
not only aM disbanded.
The production company responsible for all Red Bull WOLOLOS, the last Hidden Cup and NAC 4 plus NAC 5 are in liquidation.
They did a great job and I think it's worth mentioning sadge
Ohh, thats sad...
Was it all the same company? What is it called?
@@MasmorraAoE The company was called THE VERY ESSENCE.
They were formerly at Take TV, the host of the StarCraft 2 tournament Homestory Cup (Nili's biggest inspiration for his own NAC iirc).
The "meme guy" from NAC4 and NAC5 was also even coached by Hera and Nili quite recently.
Another great episode
Jonslow tournaments are always so fun
HOT TAKE… y’all talked about matches with some maps being stale or not as exciting and i would say why not TURN OFF ALL MODS. I play with zero mods and probably never will. I think mods ruin certain aspects of the game like aesthetics but also something thats fundamental in warfare-->> CONCEALMENT. example, i play with regular (BIG TREES) and i gotta say i’ve definitely had opponents sneak vils or army around wood lines and totally catch me off guard. it adds to the chaos!! it’s annoying yet a huge part of real strategy(ambush/surprise). little moments of chaos really push a player, it adds to the art of warfare and doesn’t dilute the guilty AOE can bring. range mods also make the games less exciting, like no one is dropping castles out of range by one tile! THAT USE TO TILT ME whenever id be off with my placement, but once again it adds to the chaos and thats what makes my games exciting. THIS WONT CHANGE META openings, and thats fine but i think it will return a key aspect the game has to offer and thats concealment, chaos, human error. its not like we want to change the advantages of hill damage. PLUS we already have mini map, thats already a huge helper. turn off the mods, enjoy the master piece that is AGE OF EMPIRES. enjoy it while it last before the whole game turns into a boring automatic game. anyways not sure anyone will read this. but definitely wish mods weren’t a ranked/tournament thing. (unless the tournament allows it)
I am not surprised the world cup final between MBL+Viper vs Yo+Lyx is the most viewed. I revisit that video often. Lyx is amazing to watch in those situations, and game 2 on Scandanavia is legendary!!!
really enjoyed the episode, can't wait for the next. Vipi new house (room...) looks nice
+5 pop allowed now
I love 2v2 tournaments! I also loved the two pools tournament!
Beard looks dope vipi. Nice episode thx
I love Viper's take on the game, really.
And everyone go watch world rumble 2, upcoming players need the attention 😊
Another interesting idea would be, that you could build up a team game chronically, that with every age a new player joins with a new tc in this new age. Just as a different game mode. *No operation on the base game*. Also agree on the arabia thematic.
twice a month yessssss
viper thought building house would be 25 wood and 25s vill work time
Yes! I wish team positions was opt-in like how random civ is opt-in currently on the ladder.
News news news - great Episode guys! Btw more story time with Nili would be highly appreciated! :D
thank you very much for this podcast episode. it was interesting to watch. You both are really good match for this project. very smart discussions. clever questions and clever answers. watching like news on prime channel.
few things I very much agree with:
1)
"auto everything" changes will make no difference like zero. unnecessary panic
2)
Vipur - you ruined your wall with addictive glue, well done.
3)
DauT will sweat in qualifiers.
4)
Team tournaments wont be exciting as GL have no competition.
5)
Masmorra is extremely talented individual.
6)Nili will come back
I miss World Cups games, we need a yearly WORLD CUP GAMES! 2V2 OR 3V3!!!
I had a long car ride, just the perfect timing
Regarding "incompetent devs" at 45:01: as dev myself with 10+ years experience and currently working in a big company that has an old product, I can safely say that the devs are not incompetent. Working on legacy code (20+ years of legacy code is insane), can cause a lot of issues and headaches. I don't believe that the people who coded AOE in the 90s are the same as the ones that are doing it now, but considering that Microsoft is a huge-ass company, they 10000% have very strong guidelines, good practices, documentations, tests etc that can help new devs get up to speed in a couple of months. Its absolutely amazing what they've managed to do with AOE2 DE writing legacy code and they should be more than commended. If any bugs appear during updates its perfectly normal especially working with old (maybe spaghetti ?) code. Coding a new AOE2 DE with modern practices, modern code, modern engine would take several years and maybe several millions of dollars investment that I don't believe Microsoft would agree to. My 2 cents: give those devs a pat on the back because they deserve it. It's like renovating the Taj Mahal without all the modern equipments and doing a good job at it
Thank you for your input!
I believe one of the biggest hurdles cited when dealing with the legacy code of AoE 2 is that there seems to be a big lack of documentation.
And that's why when devs try to fix one part of the game they have no idea what other part they might be breaking at the same time.
Perhaps documentation wasn't seen as a priority 25 years ago?
@@MasmorraAoE who knows how Microsoft operated 25 years ago. Maybe the priority was on developing the operating system, so the studio who developed the game wasn't that much on the higher ups spotlight and didn't document. Lack of documentation is present even today in a company that is worldwide leaders in their field (cannot say who) and in time that will come back to bite in the behind.
@@DragosMarcean Also don't forget that AOE and AOE2 was developed by Ensemble Studios which was independent company before it was acquired by Microsoft. I don't know what practices were followed by such teams at that time but I can tell you that I work on legacy code (from 80s - 90s) in a big corporate and there is absolutely no documentation whatsoever. Working on such code base takes insanely long time if you absolutely need to avoid any bugs. In AOE/gaming environment it is better to develop and fix bugs as they pop up.
At least Matt Pritchard - one of the OG developers of Age Of Empires - was working on the Definitive Edition. But I don't think he is at Forgotten Empires any more.
Great podcast.
Hope Jordan is well.
Kind of agree with Viper about him hosting tournaments while he's still a top player. Another problem is if he's in the final he can't really cast alot of the big games, which would have an impact as well.
For the part at 46:00, the industry of software has a shortage of workers, period. So that have the effect that people can switch job really easily and get a raise in the process. That in turn makes code "unknown" (we call it legacy code) for the people that replace them.
Making the workplace a bit worse, encouraging people to leave and it's a vicious cycle.
Baseline is : keep people in, they may become better at what they do.
Another topic is that the player base is definitely not hardcore. Most players goes against AI and play reaaaally chill for someone that only looked at a build order.
So the people in charge to deciding what budget will be spend on what will mostly only want a functioning thing (like patching), not a perfectly functioning thing.
Great chapter! I agree with Mr Viper, I don’t think it would be recommendable for him to host a big tournament if he’s playing. I think it would probably bring negative comments (mainly suspicions of transparency), even if he delegates all the organization. People would probably have trust issues. (In my humble opinion of course)
Bigger prizepools are best for players but shouldn't be for anyone else.
If bigger is always better, there will be no stop until the bubble breaks and we lose what's dear to us: the game itself and the fun that comes along.
🎉
It was pretty random that when you had one scout leftover that happens to be your starting scout u could autoscout the map, but if the leftover was a new one you couldnt. Dont mind that change. Hate the farms tho, so many memes lost and it really dumbs down DM. Another note: Sudden Dessaster was the best 1v1 tournament in a looong time and id love to see a bigger prizepool SD event, where people are incentivized to strategize (more).
1 year already, that’s crazy
Left at 14:30 to go watch world cup finals 11 hopefully I come back later to finish this
Great Episode as usual ! What about organise a tournament yourself Masmora ? 🙂
Yeah what about that Masmorra?
as a more casual aoe2 fan i love team game tourneys
Could you explain why your wonderful podcast is for free on CZcams and behind a new paywall on Spotify (which I pay for)?
The paywall on Spotify is just a voluntary option to support so we can keep these formats alive. There is no change to the old format, we still upload on Spotify and CZcams as usual for free. The video behind the paywall just comes online earlier in order to grant some value.
Thanks for explaining. Also for the 2 min spotify update on this.
I was expecting to hear "I'm Daut" at the beginning.
I already subscribed and liked so I guess all that's left is to comment
I think 2v2 is super untapped. especially if they can come up with a way to reduce the amount of "knight archer" meta you see.
Vipurrr
Id love an MBL episode
I was not excited about the new farming thing becasue I value being good at mechanics and macroing, im a broodwar player at heart, but ive come around to it.
10:57 If you want less predictable 4v4 Arabia games, turn off Team Together. Maybe turn off Shared Exploration as well, that thing which people said would never be used for pro games after it was added to rated matches but now always is.
I don't understand why team games tournaments are regarded so badly by organizers. The viewership on these videos for T90 just goes to show, and to be honest it's always a pleasure to follow and watch on my side. No matter the chaos sometimes. :)
I think team tournaments are just way more effort for the organiser due to the scheduling. It is so much more difficult to find stay in schedule and make sure matches are happening on time if you have 8 players attending instead of 2. On top the casting can be quite tough in comparison.
That makes sense, thank you for your explanation. I still hope we will see more in the future. Fingers crossed.
We have auto scout on xbox. Only your starting scout has the ability to auto scout and the pathing isn't great, often scouting places you dont want it to scout and always dies to a tc when if you forget about it.
I’m watching and waiting if u mention that FOX is having a bootcamp, taking Sebastian to France for example #WeLoveThisGame
no Jordan in warlords hurts, would love to see the smiling face trying to qualify
Whaaaaaat!?!?!?! An episode less than 1 hour long?? I'm heartbroken 😭💔
But we do 2 episodes a month now, so it adds up to more than before :)
T-90 Farms were one of the biggest memes in the whole community. It was always fun to laught at or have debates about farm placements. IMO, this is another tiny step towards sucking the soul out of this game.
In regards to the competency of the devs, I agree that aoe2 is 25 year old game so it's super hard to work on without introducing bugs.
However, when they introduced the Dromon changes, I found that extremely insightful and have since then had no faith in the devs.
This isn't someone belly-aching that a unit they like got nerfed. As a developer myself, the approach they took makes absolutely no sense.
Firstly they completely re-invented how the dromon works, so this presumably has to be a lot better to justify the effort. Secondly this was in large part to facilitate the expansion of the armenian water bonus. However now, because Dromons have base 5 projectiles, they're locked into changes to 20% improvement increments. Had they instead just added a projectile with whatever additional damage they wanted, they could very precisely tune the armenian bonus. Thirdly because the damage is split amongst the projectiles, the dromon performs un-intuitively poorly vs high melee armor units.
To summarize, they made a bunch of extra work for themselves, so that they could make the dromon behave unintuitively and make the armenian bonus inflexible. I can't conceive how this gets past initial conversation, let alone implemented into the game.
jordan confirmed he's not participating in warlords in his discord
RIP t90 farms
Position pick is bad for lower elos in arabia as well. There are people who will do nothing except picking a cavalry civ for pocket everytime.
Im not gonna lie, I miss the in person experience.. but I also understand that making the trip is difficult for you both.
Can we invite red phosphorou to the podcast? I'd love to hear what he has to say!!
This is the first episode i believe it’s noticeable many cuts here and there, hope u take it as it is, Healthy critic guys. Great content as always
Fun fact, this is probably the episode with the fewest amount of cuts. I guess the difference is if it's noticeable or not. If we have to cut something out (for example information we were actually not allowed to publish yet), then it is off noticeable.
@@GLAgeOfEmpires well sign me up for the uncensored uncutted full spoilers version 11 🫡🙌🏻👀🤪
2v2 nation/world cup would be awesome to see.
4v4 gets tooo messy and complicated. 2v2 or 3v3 is just easier to watch.
wheres the part about aM disbanding ?
the timestamp in the description doesn't work for some reason. tried to fix it but can't get it to work. Its at 32:51
The devs are indeed doing a fantastic job. Just pls dont spoil the base game :)
45:45 didn’t they say a while ago that they were rebuilding the engine because of the spaghetti code causing bugs
RedBull El Reinado = LAN in Mexico confirmed ???
its in Spain
bring tatoh to talk about RB!
I think if the tournament organisers are so worried at the S Tier level that GL will dominate now AM have disbanded and Hera is now a member why not host a completely random tournament.
Host qualifiers pre tournament maybe in 2v2 or 3v3 matches an have automatic qualifiers based on performance if hosts are concerned about numbers if a certain player doesn't qualify.
At the main event pick out a set number of captains randomly they then have a live draft of numbers that corresponds to a player an they pick a number one at a time picking completely random teams.
It would not only give a potential prize pool to those players that are just maybe outside of qualifying for a s tier tournament but also to those regular s tier tournament players that you would probably not be so confident on winning the tournament.
If you want to gimmick it up a bit maybe have one game of each draft that is random map, random civs, random team placings forcing players to throw strategies together on the fly.
not really fair to expect players to compete properly with language barriers
@@paradox_303 true but you'd be surprised how many of the players are fluent in English.
@@markblackburn2343 you're basically alienating all of the chinese community, many other south east asians, LATAM community and more...
Viper's beard is looking noice. How does he do it?
Viper is completely right about the autoscout. It is and will be in no way Broken. It being broken is an opinion of people who love to complain
I much prefer masters of arena to kotd and I think I only have one more moa in me before I am done with that too lol
auto scouting is pretty bad. Its not hard to take a waek leftover scout and spam shift move commands the black areas on the mini map
If theres lag in a game im saving an ungodly amount of misclicks with the new farm feature
i want som com games
I am really curious to know if anyone is going to pay that 2 euro to listen a few hours before a youtube upload. I imagine those numbers are going to very low, but i could be wrong obviously.
I dont think the auto-scout thing is a big deal. Im like 1100 ELO and even I have the APM to scout manually with an extra scout if i have him
Masnorra speaks about auto scout as someone who has never used it before. Right now the AI auto scout is so bad it's literally better to shift click minimap and you are better. Also autoscout will randomly pause so manually scouting is literally almost 50% faster (or atleast it feels like). Also sometimes the scout will scout and then decide to go to opposite corner to scout when he could keep scouting. Anyhow unless they improve the ai it's never going to be a big deal and if anything it's a noob trap and people shouldn't use it. Shift click is way better.
The reason I would love to have auto-scouting for all scouts is that I usually use my initial scout for scout rushes and when I lose him, I'm screwed as I rely on auto-scouting.
Now I'll be able to click auto-scout and focus my attention elsewhere. I'm that low elo.
However, I understand why higher level players wouldn't want anyone to have a feature for free when they had to work hard to achieve multi-tasking.
But then it's like a teacher being harsh on their students just because he had had a harsh teacher. There's no reason to make anyone suffer through the same process because you did.
gg
Drink a shot every time Viper says, "Right".
I play this game every day and don't get the fuss about the devs. The game works. I never have truly gamebreaking issues and I don't feel like a massive cash wallet for people that have no interest in the actual game
Modern day games are just made to be very easy to play. With first person shooters “x-ray” vision is ridiculous and takes immersion out of the game. FPS used to be loads better when there was a risk of running around a corner and getting blasted.
i dont think aM disbanding is good news - i rather see a team competing with GL for titles; but i think if aM members split it will be a few teams competing for top 4, but not for titles - imo GL the only ultra strong team then.