It's good to see people making these types of videos, I've not got around to test any of this as i'm still playing the game, pathfinder is based on the 3.5 rules however I have noticed some changes with weapons, they are missing ability's like trip on weapons, the reasons you would use a light over a heavy in the normal game was the reload times, in 3.5 it was a move action for a light but a whole turn to reload a heavy crossbow, bow had no reload time, this was also the reason most feats did not work with them, in the normal rules there was a feat to reduce this time, the fact it's not in the game would mean they got rid of the different reloading times for the ranges weapons that's why all the range feats are working with them, now according to the weapon focus feat repeating heavy and light crossbows are in the game, I don't know how they have been designed for this game as I have not seen any yet, but in 3.5 you used one so you could use a lot of the bow feats as repeating changed the reload to a free action.
Hi Tony. Im From Pin and paper dnd3.0 , 3.5 , 4 briefly...then we found pathfinder and have been happy with that for I think 12 ish years. The reason small people do less damage with a weapons is that the size of the weapon needs to be smaller to use it. I'm 6 foot 220lbs. My daughter is 3 foot 7 She would not be able to use my weapons correctly much and less accurately. I know it's a game and it doesn't take this into consideration. Had many arguments during the years about why the trader doesn't want the leather armor & gear from the dead kobolds . Love your videos.
On small creature\humanoid damage: it's not that it's less because they are "weaker than humans", its due to the weapon literally being smaller than what a medium person uses, the smaller the item, the less poundage and draw, smaller arrows, etc. I like how they did this, I dont have to hope to loot a small Xbow and a medium Xbow for two different characters, just one and it resizes accordingly.
Of course, why didn't I think of that. Actually I sort of prefer the DnD 3.0 version which just said that small races could not use medium 2 handed weapons, had to use medium 1 handed weapons as 2 handed, and could use small or tiny weapons one handed, and then for ranged weapons restricted to short bows and light crossbows or slings, but that is just my preference. Does not handle how armor works though. Currently I have the bard Linzi using a Chain Shirt she took off of the Frost Giant from the Tutorial mission. Basically she should be able to use it, ... as a Tent perhaps. I think I would like the "equipment resizing" if there was a minor mechanic to it, i.e. a small race would need to use a potion or spell of enlarge person to initially equip the item and then when they return to their "normal" size the equipment resized to fit them. Would make the mechanic a bit more immersive and make more sense, although I understand a lot of people would just not play small races because of the hassle. Having said that I have looted so many mites (not going to say where) and sold or used the equipment I got off them, and they are "tiny". Would have to use a couple of reduce person just to be able to pick the equipment up before it would resize properly.
Further when you think about it they are actually mixing the "equipment resize" with the DnD 3.0 method of sizing, because Amiri is using a Giants (Large) Bastard Sword as a 2 handed sword, which is straight out of DnD 3.0, rather than using the implied "equipment resizing" that happens elsewhere, i.e. Linzi using the Frost Giant Chain Mail, and even the Great Axe that the Frost Giant dropped is not identified as "Large" so anyone could use it, including a "small" race. Not meaning to nit-pick but I do like consistency
RangerTony sizing was changed and restricted a bit in 3.5, a lot of that carried over into PF, as far as Amari's sword, I Believe Large is one of that items mechanical magic affix, gives it a minus to hit for higher damage. But I do see what you're saying.
Amiri is also an established “iconic” character who deliberately uses an oversized weapon which is why she is an exception in the game, similar to Drizzt always using the same two scimitars when he makes a cameo.
The resizing thing isn't the only difference from tabletop like that. Composite bows in the pen and paper are made for a specific level of strength bonus and don't automatically improve with your strength. I also believe there's an attack penalty if your strength bonus it too low, iirc. Don't have my book to check atm
Bracers of archery (both the lesser and greater version) only works on bows, that is a good reason for not using crossbows on anything but very weak characters (bracers of archery also let any character use any bow)
The halflings make great crossbow archers just get a point or two in fighter for the tankiness an too hit bonus... its sorta highlarious that the tiny crossbow does so much damage but.... effective
Most important rule: If you are going for ranged weapons, you need the feats point-blank shot and precise shot. The reason to go for composite bows rather than normal longbows is that they adjusted to your strength so that you can add your STR modifier to the damage. On the other hand, if you do not match the STR prerequisites of the bow, you get penalties.
This game has not STR prerequisites in any bow that I've seen. Just a bonus if you have a +2 or greater Strength bonus and are wielding a Composite Bow.
Another detail: Crossbows shoot a little earlier than bows in the first round of combat. Probably because it's considered possible to carry it loaded. I expected the bows to have a higher frequency of attack (crossbows are slower to load), but I didn't notice anything during the game. Conclusion: regular (short) bows are crap.
One thing that I see really often in games regarding bows and crossbows is a misunderstanding of the two operate. The bow has better range (arrow loses less velocity/second than a bolt, due to higher weight and longer draw distance), they both deal comparable damage (draw weight for crossbows and draw length for bows each giving a significant advantage over the other), crossbows are far easier to use (require less muscles thanks to mechanical means of drawing the crossbow, string takes no effort from archer to hold at full draw thanks to trigger mechanism, easier to aim thanks to design letting you sight down the bolt), bows fire faster (significantly) as it is quicker to draw a bow than to draw even a stirrup crossbow (not even mentioning windlasses and other devices for proper "war crossbows"). Overall I think that bows and crossbows should deal the same damage (1d8 for a short bow/ light crossbow, 1d10 for long bow/ heavy crossbow) with bows having a 20-30 yard range (60-90 feet) and crossbows having a 10-20 yard range (30-60 feet), and with crossbows needing a full action to reload but not needing any training in how to use (simple weapons proficiency vs martial weapons proficiency).
The difference in skill requirement is more like simple weapon vs. exotic weapon. You can learn to consistently hit a bullseye with a crossbow in an afternoon. Doing the same with a long bow requires a lot more practice.
RangerTony, is there an upper limit to the strength bonus for composite bows? I haven't played AD&D since 3rd edition, which had a max dmg of (+4, 18 str) for long composite bows and I think (+2,14 str) for short composite bows.
Is this the reason anyone else seems to prefer bows over crossbows? Because I was thinking the same as Ranger Tony: That Bows are only better if you use Composite Bows and if your Strength is high. And I read somewhere it takes longer to shoot the crossbow. Do you know something about that?
To my knowledge there is no mechanic that makes Crossbows "slower" than other bows. Every round of combat is the same 6 seconds and the only thing that is supposed to determine the timing in a round is initiative. The only way that Crossbows were disadvantaged in other games like Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 is that once you could attack more than once per round you needed a special feat to allow you to attack twice per round with a Crossbow, and twice was t he maximum number of times you could attack even if you were high enough level to be able to attach 3+ times normally. I do not see any evidence of that mechanic existing in this game so the only difference between Bows and Crossbows is that Crossbows have a higher critical threat range (19-20) and that there are some feats that are not available to Crossbows However I am not a Pathfinder expert so I could be mistaken
The mechanic that makes crossbows slower its you dont have manyshots. With bow you need STR to be really effectve, with crossbow, you can dump str, and invest in something else, lets say int charisma for a trickster, eldritch knight arcane archer etc.
the reason most people go for Composite Longbows in this game is for 3 things: 1)Manyshots (doesn't work for crossbows), 2) there being double and tripple statted belts (+x to str and dex) and 3) there simply being way more good longbows in this game, the longbow from Dwarven Ruins is a true powerhouse for instance. Crossbow builds are usually done on small characters with a combination of tanky feats and stat distribution (going for high saves), Dwarf being the very best for this.
Good question but no they are not. I have an Eldritch Archer who is rapid shot. This means that with a Longbow he gets 3 shots per round. I normal attack, 1 extra from rapid shot, and then his SpellStrike that he uses to "shoot" his spells at his opponents. I have just tested using a Heavy crossbow rather than the longbow and I still got 3 attacks per round. Now I cannot be 100% sure that this is not a "feature" or "bug" of Eldritch Archers. What I can say is that Rapid shot definitely works with Crossbows, and that Heavy Crossbow do not impose a 1 round load penalty
So effectively, P:K did not carry over the slower usage of Crossbows based on their required reloads (i.e. in Pathfinder 1 and D&D 3.5 you needed to use a simple action to reload a crossbow, whereas it's a free action to reload a bow, so you can't do a full attack with a crossbow while you can with a bow)?
Also should point out that the CRIT range for Crossbows are slightly BETTER than regular bows. Bows crit on a Natural 20, Crossbows crit on a natural 19 or 20. Obviously, the KEEN effect on either would double their Crit Ranges. This MAY be worth going Crossbow then for an Eldritch Archer that can CRIT their Ray spells through their weapon.
Here's a bug (better be a bug), so abuse it while it lasts. The Monk skill flurry of blows works with cross bows, bot the light and heavy types, so at level 1, you get 2 attacks per round with a cross bow.
Bows have a higher rate of fire than crossbows. So you get better DPS out of Bows. Also Bows have better range. So STAND off distance can be a nice factor
Sorry that might be correct for the Pen and Paper Pathfinder, but in this game both Bows and Crossbows have the same rate of fire and the same range. Heavy Crossbow and Longbow are both 50ft range and they fire just as fast as each other.
Maybe in PnP Pathfinder that is true, but I am not seeing that here. I have an Eldritch Archer that is using a Heavy Crossbow and he is firing it twice per round with no issues.
rof should me slower with less str for the crossbow. also, I don't like wands. the mechanic is, different. a good wand or staff should be a weapon with a base range attack that scales with the casters abilities. meh, I'm only lvl 4 on my first playthrough. maybe there are some things I have not yet figured out. love the difficulty though.
Actually both light and heavy crossbows can get multiple attacks per round. It just depends on BAB of the character. Give the heavy crossbow to the character using the light crossbow and they will get 2 attacks per round as we'll. All crossbows can also use rapid shot to get an extra attack. The only rammed feat that does Not work for crossbows is many shot. Note if your comment is based on the tabletop Pathfinder rules that is fine but that is not what is implemented in this game
@@rangertony So, I just tried this test out, and you're absolutely right. I just assumed Tristian had a worse BaB than Octavia, but he's actually a better fighter and gets two shots with either the light or heavy crossbow. Octavia, with her +4 BaB, gets a single shot with either weapon. I stand corrected, good sir.
It's not really a logic problem, because the logic here is, that a smaller character has a smaller weapon overall. So it is still a small weapon but out of smaller weapons overall. So the heavy crossbow will be a heavy weapon out of small weapons, that a small character can wield. So a giants light crossbow might be the size of a normal heavy crossbow, that is why it should shoot bigger bolts with stronger force. It is just not explained well ingame.
Dont forget if you dont have too much strength it means in Kingmaker that you can enhance other Stats. Thats the main advantage with a crossbow. Lets say you want a Ranger and want high Wisdom, Dexterity and Constitution.. well you can dump STR.
@@juliaswallow8637 Well, no. There is one bow damage perk that you will miss, which hurts a bit but otherwise nothing major. Quite the oposite. More Wis, Con, Dex means survivalbility. And Cha for them persuation checks. You can have as much damage as a STR based archer with the Ranger. There are spells for example that make you weapon count as one higher and thus almost doubeling their damage, with more wisdom you can be buffed all the time between rests... You can go into inquisitor and use Bane to increase your damage even further. More stats mean easier Multiclassing. Archery can benefit from a lot of spells and when using STR you cant realy specialize as a more Castery type of an archer unless being super squishy.
@@m3divh buffs not DC check so only dexterity mean some survivability also even with 7 str you can buff bull str and don't have penalties... We also don't talking about plus 8 gear which is not hard to get... And plus 6 you can just buy...
@@juliaswallow8637 So wisdom Saving Throws Skills for additional Inteligence, Hit points for every +2 to Con Extra spell casts and DC on your spells, hogher Attack bonus, nothing of that is as important as +4 to damage -__- Yeah sure.
@@m3divh if you are ranger then spellcasting for you just because it somehow existed. not need high DC. survivability mostly depends on AC not hp... then from 16 to 18 you must spend 3 points per lvl. and you get just 5 points from levelings so... one point is waste for nothing. why dont stop at 17 instead of 18 and not dump your str? at least you can dump your cha and give someone else talking skills for dialoges... same with other stats. you can not be jack of all trades. if you trying to maximise two of your ability then you gotta suck. its simple. if you are archer you need dex for accuracy. you have plenty of skill points so not realy need int and wis you need just for couple buffs nothing more. same with inquisitor and palladins. also here is weird system of skillpoints from int. with 12 and 16 i have same one skill point and not every level.. but then when i reach something about 20 i getting bunch of skill points at one level so if you not raiseing int then no point to taking more then 13 for additional skill point and access to combat expertise if you arcane archer then you need maximise your dex again for accuracy and you not need more then 16 int in the end. if you dont have int fault you can reach that amount without dumping anything. you will use destruction spells anyway but main weapon still pure bow because you dont want to rest after every two fights. as fighter archer you not need anything except dextery maximised. you of course can say you can boost your dex and wis\cha and take one lvl of monk for extra protection yes. but you will suck anyway. and also at the beginning this 2-4 points of damage give you a HUGE difference because it constant HALF of damage you dal with weapon. and you can find much more bows then crossbows in game. so. crossbow is alright for someone like octavia just to keep her cute ass as far as possible from fight when you killing regular mobs with just rmb. in other oweds - for someone who dont use it as main weapon. another good choise is rogue. because his damage comes form sneka attack and he pretty much dont care about basic damage of his weapon so yes you can dump his str.
Most Dnd based games have Rapid Reload as a Feat that you have to specifically take, and it only allows you to shoot a maximum of 2 bolts per round regardless of the number of attack actions you have based on your BAB and Level. PFKM however does appear to allow you to shoot as many times with a Crossbow as you have attack actions so i guess it is a little different. I says it appears to because I have not actually seen being able to shoot more than 2 bolts per round, but there is also absolutely no text I could find anywhere in the games that indicates that Crossbows are in any way limited in the number of attacks per round. That does not mean there is not a limit because as we all know the documentation at the game is not that great.
That may be in the table-top game but I have played dozens of hours as Heavy Crossbow wielding Magus and never been limited to firing every other round. There are a few archery feats that do not work for the Heavy Crossbow, Manyshot being the main one I can think of, but that is the only real drawback of the Heavy Crossbow
@@rangertony Ive played many hours as well and ive noticed from low level and high my cleric with a x-bow gets one shot for every shot octavia gets with her short bow.so it seems slower to me but im no expert on video game mech.
Small creatures make less damage because the weapon is smaller not because they are not as strong. Hence why large weapons e.g. Amari's sword make more damage, learn the basics before making videos ;)
@Vampiresoap in real life lol it's a video game set in a fantasy setting with monsters and magic. Anyway that's orthogonal, the video is about the mechanics of the game which is based on a pen and paper tabletop RPG so one should understand how it works before making a video with advises for players. Seeing that the author doesn't understand the mechanics behind erodes his credibility and was an immediate turn-off personally. My comment was direct but not impolite like yours. Sorry your fan boy heart was hurt by that. Go get a life now.
Actually Jerome your original comment was impolite. Your inclusion of the "learn the basics before making videos" was deliberately snarky so that you could feel superior. As I said in reply if you are so much better than all of us make your own videos, or leave polite corrections or opinions. If you want examples of how to do that you can see how it have done the same thing in several replies to comments to this video and several of my other videos. I do not claim to be an expert. I am just playing the game and letting people know what I find out on the way. I have left your comments on this video because I do not want to censor anyone who has something valid to say. If you want to keep replying politely and providing relevant information that would be great. If you want ot be a jerk though I have no problems blocking anyone. Thanks for your contribution
Thank you for this video man, I was struggling with these mechanics!
Just found you channel and I just wanted to say, thanks for the great information.
It's good to see people making these types of videos, I've not got around to test any of this as i'm still playing the game, pathfinder is based on the 3.5 rules however I have noticed some changes with weapons, they are missing ability's like trip on weapons, the reasons you would use a light over a heavy in the normal game was the reload times, in 3.5 it was a move action for a light but a whole turn to reload a heavy crossbow, bow had no reload time, this was also the reason most feats did not work with them, in the normal rules there was a feat to reduce this time, the fact it's not in the game would mean they got rid of the different reloading times for the ranges weapons that's why all the range feats are working with them, now according to the weapon focus feat repeating heavy and light crossbows are in the game, I don't know how they have been designed for this game as I have not seen any yet, but in 3.5 you used one so you could use a lot of the bow feats as repeating changed the reload to a free action.
Thanks for the feedback
Very useful info! It's exactly what I suspected but the wikis are all empty so I couldn't get any confirmation on any of this. Thanks!
Hi Tony. Im From Pin and paper dnd3.0 , 3.5 ,
4 briefly...then we found pathfinder and have been happy with that for I think 12 ish years.
The reason small people do less damage with a weapons is that the size of the weapon needs to be smaller to use it.
I'm 6 foot 220lbs. My daughter is 3 foot 7
She would not be able to use my weapons correctly much and less accurately. I know it's a game and it doesn't take this into consideration. Had many arguments during the years about why the trader doesn't want the leather armor & gear from the dead kobolds .
Love your videos.
On small creature\humanoid damage: it's not that it's less because they are "weaker than humans", its due to the weapon literally being smaller than what a medium person uses, the smaller the item, the less poundage and draw, smaller arrows, etc. I like how they did this, I dont have to hope to loot a small Xbow and a medium Xbow for two different characters, just one and it resizes accordingly.
Of course, why didn't I think of that. Actually I sort of prefer the DnD 3.0 version which just said that small races could not use medium 2 handed weapons, had to use medium 1 handed weapons as 2 handed, and could use small or tiny weapons one handed, and then for ranged weapons restricted to short bows and light crossbows or slings, but that is just my preference. Does not handle how armor works though. Currently I have the bard Linzi using a Chain Shirt she took off of the Frost Giant from the Tutorial mission. Basically she should be able to use it, ... as a Tent perhaps.
I think I would like the "equipment resizing" if there was a minor mechanic to it, i.e. a small race would need to use a potion or spell of enlarge person to initially equip the item and then when they return to their "normal" size the equipment resized to fit them. Would make the mechanic a bit more immersive and make more sense, although I understand a lot of people would just not play small races because of the hassle. Having said that I have looted so many mites (not going to say where) and sold or used the equipment I got off them, and they are "tiny". Would have to use a couple of reduce person just to be able to pick the equipment up before it would resize properly.
Further when you think about it they are actually mixing the "equipment resize" with the DnD 3.0 method of sizing, because Amiri is using a Giants (Large) Bastard Sword as a 2 handed sword, which is straight out of DnD 3.0, rather than using the implied "equipment resizing" that happens elsewhere, i.e. Linzi using the Frost Giant Chain Mail, and even the Great Axe that the Frost Giant dropped is not identified as "Large" so anyone could use it, including a "small" race.
Not meaning to nit-pick but I do like consistency
RangerTony sizing was changed and restricted a bit in 3.5, a lot of that carried over into PF, as far as Amari's sword, I Believe Large is one of that items mechanical magic affix, gives it a minus to hit for higher damage. But I do see what you're saying.
Amiri is also an established “iconic” character who deliberately uses an oversized weapon which is why she is an exception in the game, similar to Drizzt always using the same two scimitars when he makes a cameo.
The resizing thing isn't the only difference from tabletop like that. Composite bows in the pen and paper are made for a specific level of strength bonus and don't automatically improve with your strength. I also believe there's an attack penalty if your strength bonus it too low, iirc. Don't have my book to check atm
Very usefull thanks for that :-) I play a Ranger at the moment would love a guide on this build from you. Greetings from Germany
I have a Ranger Intro video as well as an Archery Ranger Build video and more Ranger variant videos coming soon, as well as Animal Companions
Bracers of archery (both the lesser and greater version) only works on bows, that is a good reason for not using crossbows on anything but very weak characters (bracers of archery also let any character use any bow)
Thank you, good explanation.
It's STR x 1.5 for additional damage on composite bows.
Rounded DOWN. Don't forget that part. So a Strength of 16 (+3 Bonus) gets multiplied to a 4.5, which is a 4 in the game, not a 5.
Thank you, very helpful, I am late to the game though.
The halflings make great crossbow archers just get a point or two in fighter for the tankiness an too hit bonus... its sorta highlarious that the tiny crossbow does so much damage but.... effective
Most important rule: If you are going for ranged weapons, you need the feats point-blank shot and precise shot. The reason to go for composite bows rather than normal longbows is that they adjusted to your strength so that you can add your STR modifier to the damage. On the other hand, if you do not match the STR prerequisites of the bow, you get penalties.
This game has not STR prerequisites in any bow that I've seen. Just a bonus if you have a +2 or greater Strength bonus and are wielding a Composite Bow.
Super helpful - thank you very much.
You're welcome!
Another detail: Crossbows shoot a little earlier than bows in the first round of combat. Probably because it's considered possible to carry it loaded.
I expected the bows to have a higher frequency of attack (crossbows are slower to load), but I didn't notice anything during the game.
Conclusion: regular (short) bows are crap.
Nope sorry but I think you are wrong. It might seem like crossbows shoot early but everything runs on initiative rolls so it is purely RNG
One thing that I see really often in games regarding bows and crossbows is a misunderstanding of the two operate. The bow has better range (arrow loses less velocity/second than a bolt, due to higher weight and longer draw distance), they both deal comparable damage (draw weight for crossbows and draw length for bows each giving a significant advantage over the other), crossbows are far easier to use (require less muscles thanks to mechanical means of drawing the crossbow, string takes no effort from archer to hold at full draw thanks to trigger mechanism, easier to aim thanks to design letting you sight down the bolt), bows fire faster (significantly) as it is quicker to draw a bow than to draw even a stirrup crossbow (not even mentioning windlasses and other devices for proper "war crossbows"). Overall I think that bows and crossbows should deal the same damage (1d8 for a short bow/ light crossbow, 1d10 for long bow/ heavy crossbow) with bows having a 20-30 yard range (60-90 feet) and crossbows having a 10-20 yard range (30-60 feet), and with crossbows needing a full action to reload but not needing any training in how to use (simple weapons proficiency vs martial weapons proficiency).
The difference in skill requirement is more like simple weapon vs. exotic weapon.
You can learn to consistently hit a bullseye with a crossbow in an afternoon. Doing the same with a long bow requires a lot more practice.
RangerTony, is there an upper limit to the strength bonus for composite bows? I haven't played AD&D since 3rd edition, which had a max dmg of (+4, 18 str) for long composite bows and I think (+2,14 str) for short composite bows.
I am not sure
The game does not list one. Unfortunately one area this game falls down is the lack of accurate documentation
This is a reat video, very well done good sir!
Thanks
Manyshot is a feat that only works on bows. Still not sure on the interaction with Eldritch archer spells though.
Is this the reason anyone else seems to prefer bows over crossbows? Because I was thinking the same as Ranger Tony: That Bows are only better if you use Composite Bows and if your Strength is high. And I read somewhere it takes longer to shoot the crossbow. Do you know something about that?
To my knowledge there is no mechanic that makes Crossbows "slower" than other bows. Every round of combat is the same 6 seconds and the only thing that is supposed to determine the timing in a round is initiative. The only way that Crossbows were disadvantaged in other games like Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 is that once you could attack more than once per round you needed a special feat to allow you to attack twice per round with a Crossbow, and twice was t he maximum number of times you could attack even if you were high enough level to be able to attach 3+ times normally. I do not see any evidence of that mechanic existing in this game so the only difference between Bows and Crossbows is that Crossbows have a higher critical threat range (19-20) and that there are some feats that are not available to Crossbows
However I am not a Pathfinder expert so I could be mistaken
The mechanic that makes crossbows slower its you dont have manyshots. With bow you need STR to be really effectve, with crossbow, you can dump str, and invest in something else, lets say int charisma for a trickster, eldritch knight arcane archer etc.
@@ArantyrDarkhand yeah probably a trickster is only one class who is fine with crossbows...
the reason most people go for Composite Longbows in this game is for 3 things: 1)Manyshots (doesn't work for crossbows), 2) there being double and tripple statted belts (+x to str and dex) and 3) there simply being way more good longbows in this game, the longbow from Dwarven Ruins is a true powerhouse for instance.
Crossbow builds are usually done on small characters with a combination of tanky feats and stat distribution (going for high saves), Dwarf being the very best for this.
Thanks for the info
Aren't Crossbows also slower?
Good question but no they are not.
I have an Eldritch Archer who is rapid shot. This means that with a Longbow he gets 3 shots per round. I normal attack, 1 extra from rapid shot, and then his SpellStrike that he uses to "shoot" his spells at his opponents. I have just tested using a Heavy crossbow rather than the longbow and I still got 3 attacks per round.
Now I cannot be 100% sure that this is not a "feature" or "bug" of Eldritch Archers. What I can say is that Rapid shot definitely works with Crossbows, and that Heavy Crossbow do not impose a 1 round load penalty
So effectively, P:K did not carry over the slower usage of Crossbows based on their required reloads (i.e. in Pathfinder 1 and D&D 3.5 you needed to use a simple action to reload a crossbow, whereas it's a free action to reload a bow, so you can't do a full attack with a crossbow while you can with a bow)?
Also should point out that the CRIT range for Crossbows are slightly BETTER than regular bows. Bows crit on a Natural 20, Crossbows crit on a natural 19 or 20. Obviously, the KEEN effect on either would double their Crit Ranges. This MAY be worth going Crossbow then for an Eldritch Archer that can CRIT their Ray spells through their weapon.
Here's a bug (better be a bug), so abuse it while it lasts. The Monk skill flurry of blows works with cross bows, bot the light and heavy types, so at level 1, you get 2 attacks per round with a cross bow.
that bot should have been both.
You can edit your comment, y'know?
Bows have a higher rate of fire than crossbows. So you get better DPS out of Bows. Also Bows have better range. So STAND off distance can be a nice factor
Sorry that might be correct for the Pen and Paper Pathfinder, but in this game both Bows and Crossbows have the same rate of fire and the same range. Heavy Crossbow and Longbow are both 50ft range and they fire just as fast as each other.
There IS a drawback to using a heavy crossbow, it takes a standard action to reload it, so you can only fire every other turn.
Maybe in PnP Pathfinder that is true, but I am not seeing that here. I have an Eldritch Archer that is using a Heavy Crossbow and he is firing it twice per round with no issues.
rof should me slower with less str for the crossbow. also, I don't like wands. the mechanic is, different. a good wand or staff should be a weapon with a base range attack that scales with the casters abilities.
meh, I'm only lvl 4 on my first playthrough. maybe there are some things I have not yet figured out. love the difficulty though.
some rings are bow specific tho
Small characters use a smaller version in head canon
Was it mentioned that light crossbows get 2 attacks in a full round, while a heavy crossbow only gets 1?
Actually both light and heavy crossbows can get multiple attacks per round. It just depends on BAB of the character. Give the heavy crossbow to the character using the light crossbow and they will get 2 attacks per round as we'll. All crossbows can also use rapid shot to get an extra attack. The only rammed feat that does Not work for crossbows is many shot.
Note if your comment is based on the tabletop Pathfinder rules that is fine but that is not what is implemented in this game
@@rangertony So, I just tried this test out, and you're absolutely right. I just assumed Tristian had a worse BaB than Octavia, but he's actually a better fighter and gets two shots with either the light or heavy crossbow. Octavia, with her +4 BaB, gets a single shot with either weapon. I stand corrected, good sir.
Without knowing all the reasons which bow is best suited for your character, just pick the bow with the best stats. Simple, 'eh?
It's not really a logic problem, because the logic here is, that a smaller character has a smaller weapon overall. So it is still a small weapon but out of smaller weapons overall. So the heavy crossbow will be a heavy weapon out of small weapons, that a small character can wield. So a giants light crossbow might be the size of a normal heavy crossbow, that is why it should shoot bigger bolts with stronger force. It is just not explained well ingame.
Dont forget if you dont have too much strength it means in Kingmaker that you can enhance other Stats. Thats the main advantage with a crossbow. Lets say you want a Ranger and want high Wisdom, Dexterity and Constitution.. well you can dump STR.
and get no damage ^_^
@@juliaswallow8637 Well, no. There is one bow damage perk that you will miss, which hurts a bit but otherwise nothing major. Quite the oposite. More Wis, Con, Dex means survivalbility. And Cha for them persuation checks. You can have as much damage as a STR based archer with the Ranger. There are spells for example that make you weapon count as one higher and thus almost doubeling their damage, with more wisdom you can be buffed all the time between rests... You can go into inquisitor and use Bane to increase your damage even further. More stats mean easier Multiclassing. Archery can benefit from a lot of spells and when using STR you cant realy specialize as a more Castery type of an archer unless being super squishy.
@@m3divh buffs not DC check so only dexterity mean some survivability also even with 7 str you can buff bull str and don't have penalties... We also don't talking about plus 8 gear which is not hard to get... And plus 6 you can just buy...
@@juliaswallow8637 So wisdom Saving Throws Skills for additional Inteligence, Hit points for every +2 to Con Extra spell casts and DC on your spells, hogher Attack bonus, nothing of that is as important as +4 to damage -__- Yeah sure.
@@m3divh if you are ranger then spellcasting for you just because it somehow existed. not need high DC. survivability mostly depends on AC not hp... then from 16 to 18 you must spend 3 points per lvl. and you get just 5 points from levelings so... one point is waste for nothing. why dont stop at 17 instead of 18 and not dump your str? at least you can dump your cha and give someone else talking skills for dialoges...
same with other stats. you can not be jack of all trades. if you trying to maximise two of your ability then you gotta suck.
its simple. if you are archer you need dex for accuracy. you have plenty of skill points so not realy need int and wis you need just for couple buffs nothing more. same with inquisitor and palladins. also here is weird system of skillpoints from int. with 12 and 16 i have same one skill point and not every level.. but then when i reach something about 20 i getting bunch of skill points at one level so if you not raiseing int then no point to taking more then 13 for additional skill point and access to combat expertise
if you arcane archer then you need maximise your dex again for accuracy and you not need more then 16 int in the end. if you dont have int fault you can reach that amount without dumping anything. you will use destruction spells anyway but main weapon still pure bow because you dont want to rest after every two fights.
as fighter archer you not need anything except dextery maximised.
you of course can say you can boost your dex and wis\cha and take one lvl of monk for extra protection
yes. but you will suck anyway.
and also at the beginning this 2-4 points of damage give you a HUGE difference because it constant HALF of damage you dal with weapon. and you can find much more bows then crossbows in game.
so. crossbow is alright for someone like octavia just to keep her cute ass as far as possible from fight when you killing regular mobs with just rmb. in other oweds - for someone who dont use it as main weapon.
another good choise is rogue. because his damage comes form sneka attack and he pretty much dont care about basic damage of his weapon so yes you can dump his str.
dnd based games have rapid reload for crossbows so not a big deal.
worst thing about crossbow is not manyshot works only with bows.
Most Dnd based games have Rapid Reload as a Feat that you have to specifically take, and it only allows you to shoot a maximum of 2 bolts per round regardless of the number of attack actions you have based on your BAB and Level.
PFKM however does appear to allow you to shoot as many times with a Crossbow as you have attack actions so i guess it is a little different.
I says it appears to because I have not actually seen being able to shoot more than 2 bolts per round, but there is also absolutely no text I could find anywhere in the games that indicates that Crossbows are in any way limited in the number of attacks per round. That does not mean there is not a limit because as we all know the documentation at the game is not that great.
@@rangertony descriptions messed here thats true.
you have forgotten that a hvy x-bow only fires every other round.
That may be in the table-top game but I have played dozens of hours as Heavy Crossbow wielding Magus and never been limited to firing every other round. There are a few archery feats that do not work for the Heavy Crossbow, Manyshot being the main one I can think of, but that is the only real drawback of the Heavy Crossbow
@@rangertony Ive played many hours as well and ive noticed from low level and high my cleric with a x-bow gets one shot for every shot octavia gets with her short bow.so it seems slower to me but im no expert on video game mech.
Kinda stupid that regular longbow is somewhat useless.
Very true. However if your Str is 10 it is the perfect longbow for you :)
Yeah, but i feel like it will be less effective than str/dex build, sadly.
Some weapons are just better than others
Park Ranger Tony?
No
@@rangertony oh my bad. Well thanks for the videos anyway, just starting my first play through and found your videos very helpful.
Small creatures make less damage because the weapon is smaller not because they are not as strong. Hence why large weapons e.g. Amari's sword make more damage, learn the basics before making videos ;)
Thanks for the advice. You know you could always make your own videos if you know so much more than everyone else ;)
@Vampiresoap in real life lol it's a video game set in a fantasy setting with monsters and magic. Anyway that's orthogonal, the video is about the mechanics of the game which is based on a pen and paper tabletop RPG so one should understand how it works before making a video with advises for players. Seeing that the author doesn't understand the mechanics behind erodes his credibility and was an immediate turn-off personally. My comment was direct but not impolite like yours. Sorry your fan boy heart was hurt by that. Go get a life now.
Actually Jerome your original comment was impolite. Your inclusion of the "learn the basics before making videos" was deliberately snarky so that you could feel superior. As I said in reply if you are so much better than all of us make your own videos, or leave polite corrections or opinions. If you want examples of how to do that you can see how it have done the same thing in several replies to comments to this video and several of my other videos.
I do not claim to be an expert. I am just playing the game and letting people know what I find out on the way.
I have left your comments on this video because I do not want to censor anyone who has something valid to say. If you want to keep replying politely and providing relevant information that would be great. If you want ot be a jerk though I have no problems blocking anyone.
Thanks for your contribution
Jerome you were petty rude bro. Js