Rally Tires Explained
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2017
- A quick look at how rally tires are different from normal tires, the different rally tires available, tread patterns, rubber compounds, and tire sizes.
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Why did you switch to a personal one from brand?>
Hay are there and dot approved tires with stiff side walls you recommend. For a daily driver Jeep Renegade thinking’s of trying rally.
can a person use GI bill for the tuition for your program to go in Team O Neil rally school ?
2:00 i cant believe he resisted plucking the rocks
Kenapa tidak percaya??
Wow, I need to get some of those rally tires for my Subaru.
I rolled on used light truck tires to keep the cost down. Keep in mind my goal was to finish the race; not win.
Thanks to the team at Team O' Neil. This was a great, and informative video. Much appreciated.
Thanks a lot. I always get excited to see a new video from Team O'Neil Rally.
Excellent videos guys. I grew up in rallying and even though I know most of this stuff its still entertaining. Keep them coming 👍
Love this video, very helpful!
thank you so much for this video.
This was super useful! Thanks! :D
I was curious about those ultra-thin wheels that are used on ice and snow.
I guess they help going through the first layer and gripping to the more compact ones below.
Ultra thin wheel, no. You mean narrow tire. Go watch the other tire videos these guys make.
I used to live on a gravel road. I'll never forget driving into town on the freshly graded gravel road ( like driving on marbles) to swap the soft knobbly snow tires I had on for Yokohama advans with hard, shallow tread- and being amazed that I had more traction and control on the way back home on the summer street tires than the soft, aggressive snow tires. It's still a mystery to me years later, I wonder why that was? It seems so counter intuitive!
Softer winter tires simply give way and slip, harder summers grip into the gravel better...
This video answered alot of questions for me.
Great video, most informative. Thanks....
I learned stuff! Nice! Thanks dudes!
Good lesson, thanx!
another cool video that make me wanna buy few different types and try which one is better !!!!
Awesome video!
Something I didn't know SUPER THANKS
really good, thank you.
Subbed! Great content
Very informative video! Thanks for sharing. BTW, do you guys still have the Rallye Golf that was featured many years ago in a car magazine?
8:50 "holy &^%%" lolol just noticed now as im getting closer to picking out tires for the carso doing some research, always great videos!
I'm curious if you guys might have tire design/compound recommendations for those of us that run rallycross events on soft grass/mud surfaces and/or sand (as we often run into down here in Florida)?
Exceptional.
I would so love to have a Peugeot 205 built like a fun rally spec but for daily driving. Are there rally tires that are made from much harder compounds (so probably used for more tarmac-heavy stages)? These tires would, even though they are harder than gravel stage rally tires, still give better grip if I do decide to take it offroad, right?
Or would just putting normal all-weather tires on for daily driving and having a set of offroading tires be better advice?
What's the lowest temperature you would recommend using gravel tires as opposed to snow/ice tires?
ur mom
I would guess 30F-40F weather is the turning point separating winter and summer tires.
40F
You'll often see the 40F recommendation. This is based on the fact that, if it's 40F in the day, you're likely to start seeing frost or potentially patches of black ice at night and in the morning. Most summer tires will still outperform any winter tire on dry 40F pavement, and they'll be just starting to lose their advantage in the wet. All-season compounds, which most gravel or A/T tires are, retain their dry advantage DEEP into sub-freezing temperatures, though again may be code-brown on that morning frost or patch of bridge ice.
Great Video! I'd love a set for my supra haha
Very interesting and well explained.
Those OZ rims are stunning
Hi, do you guys balance the rally tyres no matter on gravel or tarmac?
Could you tell me the SNOW wheel dimensions and tire dimensions used on a R2 Fiesta. Cheers
Hi sir can you explain me, What type of gearbox required for front wheel drive car converting into 4 wheel drive.....
Speaking of tyres its worth trying to find retreaded rally tyres or check brand "Fedima" in german market.
Can you do a video on rims, I see all these rally rims, I don't know were to get them, like the ones on those tires in video, why does Every one use them? a video explaining why, were, how, would be great thanks
Rally wheels are different as they are tougher to survive the beating that the stages can put them though, and they are light. Two examples would be OZ and Method...
Trent Mahnken At around 8:30 you can see that the wheels are from OZ so you can look for them on their website. fifteen52 wheels are the ones Ken Block for example uses as far as I know and there are probably some more rally wheels from other companies.
Another rally wheel brand that is quite popular in the rally community is Speedline Corse. Group B and Group A rally cars have use their rim on their cars. Check their website and their Facebook Page. Compomotive wheels also makes rally wheels
Braid, Compomotive, Revolution Wheels, Evo Corse, Speedline...
I'm looking forward to watch that video 👍🏻
what tyre pressures and alignment settings do you use on a rally car with these tyres? 4:30
Hi, you have some great videos, have you done one on which wheel sizes are best for different surfaces (gravel, forest, tarmac)? I tend to see rally cars on smaller rims with taller sidewalks (but strong, as you describe in this video). Is that just for wheel protection?
@Thom Stoops Realize this is an old comment, but it's actually to get a taller sidewall so that hard impacts don't damage the wheels themselves. Hit a rock 3" tall going 80 mph with 4" of sidewall, the tire compresses 3" and nothing else happens. Hit that same rock with a tire and only 2.5" of sidewall, the tire compresses 2.5" and then the wheel takes an impact, possibly cracking an aluminum wheel or bending a steel one compromising the structure and seal. Larger sidewall tires have more significant give to them as well for damping things like the impact to the car from jumping. Bead retention properties are generally more about the width of a tire in relation to the width of the rim that it is mounted on. The thinner the wheel in relation to the tire the more inherent bead loading it has, and the less likely it is to loose a bead. The problem is that going too small will start to bow the traction face of the tire due to the tension.
What about rally rims? Is there any disadvantage/advantage to using thinner spoked rims/steelies vs some more similar to the one that was on the dmax?
Gabriel S. I would say thinner steelies (6-7") would be a good compromise. Anything wider than that would be extremely heavy, easily 20lbs+ per corner. O.Z. wheels would be preferable if you can find a cheap set, but steelies should be plenty strong.
Cheap steelies BENT
I own a Honda Civic and I’ve gotten a few flats flats from hitting potholes, I also have a truck with BFG ko twos ,they can hit potholes without any worries, and never gotten a flat, can’t I buy tires for the street for my civic that are stronger without getting the soft compound race tires? Soft rubber is no good in ice,
Live on a dirt road and I go through tires way to fast in the wife’s sedan I began to thing about something like this would they last longer and perform on the roads still
Can I use rally tires for the winter?
didn't know the sidewalls were so strong on the rallycars, but that was kind of expected. might be the reason why i blew a big hole in my sidewall last year :D. note: streettyres: be extra carefull with edges sticking out hehe.
been there lol
Is there anything specifically unique about driving on the snow or on ice? Perhaps in terms of tires, heating, etc?
Snow and ice tires will often have a lot of siping in the tread blocks for better traction on wet and icy surfaces (at least, they do for passenger snow tires), as well as studs embedded in the lugs for traction on ice and hard-packed snow. The tread compound will also be very soft to remain grippy and pliable in lower temperatures when stiffer tires would become too stiff and lose much of their traction.
Can you daily gravel tyres ?
Just spent a few good hours searching for Michelin as in the video, where do you guys buy from? 15" small tires would do my E36 justice. Thanks
TeamONeilRally mr tyre is the UK distributer for Dmack also hankook and Dunlop everyone in the UK Has to get them through them but you can go directly to them if you want but I am not sure if they ship out out of the UK though, but they are very helpful with information on them.
I was really hoping you were going to cover tire pressure too. Whats the best pressure to run at? How is that determined? By the tire or vehicle manufacturer? Or is it all by driver feel?
John Ulicky 2,5 bar
IIRC i was running 33/30 psi in a 2700 pound awd car. the sidewalls are so stiff you can run lower than you would expect. If you have access to a testing area, a Gmeter and just driving a big circle is actually a great way to set your tire pressures for maximum cornering speed (G force)
Alex Rademacher I run with 2,5 bar pressure in all of my tyres, either bicycle, either car
Why not compare them to an all terrain or mud grip truck tire?
Since 2wd pickups are much cheaper, what do you think about putting rally tires on a pickup in the winter (with added weight in the back) providing it has a limited slip differential? I'm well adapt to driving a rwd sports car in the snow with studded tires and added weight but pickups obviously have a lot more weight to move.
Rally tires aren't great on snow and ice, you'd be better off with some actual winter tires with a softer compound and lots of sipes, BUT a RWD pickup is totally viable in the winter as long as it's got a good diff.
What would be a good tire size for a 99 Impreza RS rally build going into open light/NA AWD?
Probably 185/65/R15 BUT in Open Light you are allowed to use different transmissions and rear diffs etc... So try to make that plan first if you're going to change anything because the tire question is really a question of final drive ratio. Smaller tires will give you lower gearing (more torque but less speed in each gear) and taller tires will give you taller gearing (less torque and more speed in each gear). Take a minute and look at forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181343 and you'll see the transmission / final drive options. That and if you're building the motor and making more power, you can run a little bigger tire too without feeling bogged down.
What about tarmac tires? I know you avoid those stages, but they do exist, what are your recommendations?
Tarmac rally tires are great, check out www.demon-tweeks.com/us/motorsport/wheels-tyres/competition-tyres/rally/#/ but also there are Pirelli and Michelin, plenty of others.
What do you recommend for the snow? What kind of mileage would I be looking at for stages?
For snow, just get some good DOT winter tires or the mighty Yokohama AO-34 winter rally tires if they're in your budget.
Team O'Neil Rally School thank you, I’ll look into them
This is the most boring video i have ever seen that i actually enjoyed
Where can I *get* tires like these? Asking because I have an older classic 90s rally car with 15" wheels but I can't find good tires for it since they need to have a low enough profile to fit the car.
Here in the US, check with www.rm-autosports.com and streetwiseparts.com
what would you recommend for a cheap tire to use on hard gravel in like 100+ degree heat?
Isn't every tire going to be that hot when pushed to its limit? Even on my bycicle when it's 20°C outside it can reach like 45°C when I'm sliding a lot. I think on a car it's much hotter due to the higher wheight and energy that is converted into heat.
@@yannnique17 i don’t understand your non american temps. But i live in the desert and their a lot of nice gravel trails here. it’s just we get temps up to 120+ Fahrenheit. most rally tires i’ve looked at aren’t able to withstand heat out here in the desert since their more of a winter tire it seems. i’ve gotten more into research and the only thing i can find that works for cheap is a cheap all terrain tire.
@@offwhitecolby 20°C is normal room temperature and 45°C is a little bit more than the hootest fever you can withstand. 120°F is for me 49°C wich is hot. I thought you mean 100+°C, where water is boiling and because you can't live with that air temperature I thought you mean tire temp and tires will get hot easy.
So hear me out, I'm not a rally driver I just think it's fun to watch and wish I could drive rally but I do ride motocross bikes and I'm thinking... why not make the right angles on the treads a little concave instead of a perfect right angle, therefore they would last a little longer because once they wear down to a 90° angle they are still good for a little
I had a look at some severe condition rally winter tires, those look mean ! Pretty sure it would destroy any street pavement in a short time. Google up with "Pirelli Gravel And Winter Rally Tires" and scroll down the page to the section with studded tires.
What is your opinion or is there any data on performance of summer vs winter tyres for winter but dry or wet asphalt w/o snow or ice?
A summer tire should out-perform a winter tire in the dry any time it's not VERY cold. The exact crossover point will vary with the individual tires used, but as a general rule, figure on freezing (0C/32F). An all-season tire will probably outperform a winter tire in the dry at any temperature. In the wet, the crossover point will be a bit warmer, closer to 10-15C.
@@JETZcorp In my experience high performance summer tires outperform winter tires in ALL conditions EXCEPT ice(no matter how thin, even just forming),snow and mud.
Anthing other than that even hugh performance winter tires just screech and hold on for dear life. I have to pump mine up 0.5 bar more, so than my wheels wont lock in an emergency
@@fromthegods78 There is a point where a summer tire will go glassy. They'll usually have a recommended minimum temperature for storage, colder than which, they start to take damage if driven, or can permanently flat-spot if parked. I usually figure that's the point where they'll quite suddenly lose grip. That said, if it's 20F (negative-something C) outside, the mere act of driving may heat the tires well above that, so it may need to be even colder still for them to be in the brittle state when you go to brake.
The Tyre Reviews channel did a test on crossover temperatures a little while back. Pretty interesting results, showing there definitely isn't just a magic temperature where everything flips. The surface makes a lot of difference.
@@JETZcorp I always thought that winters should be better all winter season until I tried testing out different tire types on different surfaces and conditions. In my experience winter tires are awful in anything but actual snow/ice, otherwise you need to have them overinflated for them to behave normally and protect the tread for when you really need it.
I go by logic and have never seen a racecar use winter tires. Rain slicks are as far as they go no matter how cold it is(although softer compounds obviously).
Except in rally but when they drive winters they put on twice as narrow as the usual tires so it can dig into the snow and ice.
I think winter tires are supposed to be driven all winter as a precaution because of ignorant drivers and probably a little bit of marketing for tire companies to sell more rubber 🙂
@@fromthegods78 I don't know of a race that happens in -40 degree temperatures in the dry. In the wet, if it's warm enough for it to be wet rather than icy, race pace will heat the tires plenty to make the summer tire work. Tire temps at track pace are much much higher than at traffic pace. I've ruined a set of summer tires by storing them in too cold of temperatures. If they cracked like a prehistoric riverbed just sitting in the garage, that compound couldn't have been happy stopping at an intersection. If I had them stored warm, put them on tire warmers, then put them on a race car, they would have been fine.
Rally racing best tyre ?
What street legal daily tires is safe to use for rally? is there a happy medium that can be used legally on the street on a daily but still approved for rally?
Wait, you mean technically rally drivers can get ticketed during road stages for that?
Mingwei Zhang
As far as I know, rally cars must be road legal. Not because they can be ticketed "in race", but probably because they need to drive their cars between stages, so they can be ticketed "off race".
I think any tire is approved for rally, but i dont know the rules. Also, depends on the stage type. As in another video from this channel, they show that Nokian's Hakkapeliitta tires are used in snow stages, but they are just normal winter tires, more like "nordic winter tires" (for very heavy winter conditions). So i suppose that off-road tires and winter tires can work well. If the stage is in concrete or asphalt, UHP tires (Michelin's Sport Cup or Continental's Extreme Contact) or even semi-slick tires, as long as the grooves' depth are deeper than 1.6mm, should all be fine.
where can you buy these kind of tires?
What about running all terrain tires for something like amateur rally cross?
Consumer A/T tires don't come in sizes small enough for cars you might use in rally cross. The smallest ones are still going to be several sizes too big to fit inside the wheel well, and the sidewalls will be too soft to offer enough cornering stability.
is it ok to daily drive on rally tires? asking for a friend
If you're using them offroad why not. But if youre gonna drive on pavement its a bad idea. The softer compound will heat up more on the pavement and wear the tire a lot faster. They'll also be very noisy
sure they'll look good and grip well even on bad surfaces, but they'll be noisy uncomfortable and will last a couple of weeks, I doubt it's worth the extra money.
I'm looking around this year for a subaru wrx sti, there's an rb320 for a good price i've found. It'll be coming over to southern italy with me as a daily driver and i'm curious as to best tyre set up, the roads out here are fucking awful at best, so no 19's and slim profile tyres, just asking for trouble. Some smooth tarmac, some dirt roads, some patched up loose surface country roads, and the odd motorway driving hear and there, although even then the motorways are still shit surface at best. Not a clue as to what t use, i'd love some bfg's on it but don't know how they'd handle a performance car like that.
I believe they are called aysametrical if I have spelt that right
I’d love to find rally rated tires that can handle large potholes without blowing, I have blown two Michelin x ice tires , it sure doesn’t take much to blow them.
How much do you guys sell your used rally tires for?
We have too many cars at the rally school, so the tires all get used on something and we really don't get rid of them until they're bald or punctured. BUT most of the bigger rally teams sell their take-offs... Check with Vermont SportsCar or the Toyota guys, or anyone in your area. You can usually get them cheap.
Team O'Neil Rally School Good to know. Thanks!
How would something like a Blizzak do on dirt?
The Wakz go with a winter force Firestone. Cheap and works good.
Also has a blockier, more open tread design than more modern high-end passenger snow tires which have tread patterns that are better suited for sloppy wet snowy conditions than dry packed loose surfaces, and are optimized for ride comfort and reduced road noise. Seems like cheaper snow tires in general would have a better tread pattern for gravel, but the sidewalls are still going to be much thinner than a rally tire, making them more prone to puncture, and allowing much more sidewall flex and roll which leads to a loose, squishy-rolly feeling when cornering that really diminishes confidence in your grip and also reduces effective weight distribution across the tire's contact patch.
What size tires are the ones mounted on the wheels?
I similarities to my truck mud tires.
So it seems if i want to daily on rally tires, I might not financially recover.
What is the reasons for rally cars always running mudflaps all around?
To make them look cool
Derrek Huber its a rule
Bringing a rally tire to a street car is like bringing a gun to a knife fight
Wider tires doesn't mean less grip, in gravel/snow?
SoundsTooLoud I feel like narrower tires would sink into soft soil more so than wider tires, hence increasing grip. Just an assumption though
Yeah, but he's talking about gravel in this video
And it's correct, that's why I am thinking about more horsepower more wide tires, it should not have more grip unless it has more weight o it.
maxxis is from thailand bro :P
What about Tarmac rally tires (RIP International Rally New York)
why don't rally tires run a more block with gaps / straight cuts both ways? in the r/c world you get a ton more forward bite and side bite in slippery. kinda like this tire ( images.amain.com/images/large/aka/aka14006sr.jpg?width=475 ) but this would be a bit over kill on a rally tire, gaps are too much. the far left tire on here is the cloest. the middle tire looks to have better forward bite but the straight cuts are only one way.
If you think about the cornering forces a car is undergoing when going a bit sideways, the tires need more diagonal biting edges to maintain control in a slide rather than straight cuts just for forward biting traction or purely sideways traction, becase they're not sliding sideways, but at an angle.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.
waffle911... the only thing i ever got from more diagonal edges (in r/c) is it does not have any bite it just floats (you get better tire wear and more rotation but less grip) yes I understand if the track has good grip and you need more rotation. I know rally cars don't need as much forward grip as and R/C (less power to weight and track have more acceleration/deceleration). but i would still think they would have more side bite tire.
waffle911 also i look around the tires fit my description the most are like they run on pro-4 truck EX. i.ytimg.com/vi/E4QCHbfssVM/hqdefault.jpg /// www.off-road.com/aimages/articlestandard/race/182008/512743/CORRpomona1.jpg /// www.knfilters.com/images/press/Greg-Adler1.jpg /// image.fourwheeler.com/f/58879744+w600+cr1/greg-adlers-pro-4-unlimited-truck
oh no, osha violation, that 90/10 tank isn't chained up
Skip to 7:21 for a super haawt lickem
Man, one of those tires would suck to try to on a wheel with a run-of-the-mill auto shop tire machine.
Meh, it'd be more difficult sure, but perfectly doable. I've done 10-ply commercial van tires that have stiff sidewalls like those without too much drama, and low-profile 35- and 30-series performance tires which also have pretty thick sidewalls with almost no give. THOSE are a real bitch to mount with a regular machine, but again, still doable with effort even without the extra assisting arms newer machines offer as options.
Great video! You should get an expert to explain this abit more
Wheres wyat, bring him back
I couldn't see anything camera movement is annoying
Re
Too much camera movement. In/out/in/out. :S Good video otherwise.
Joseph Dalrymple Agree completely, was looking for this comment. Like a inattentive kid filming.
With all the erm um and uhhhh combined with all the smacking I just want to eat a tide pod and forget this whole mess.
All season tires suck
Thank God we don't see these rallies in the streets of Washington
erh erh erh erm erm erm
Basically just snow tires
Snow tires are built like the passenger tire he showed. No steel belted plies in the sidewall, so it isn't nearly as durable and doesn't offer the cornering stability of the rally tires, and steel belting in the tread which reduces the tread's ability to conform to rough, uneven surfaces for maximum traction.
Also, the additional siping in the tread lugs for wet/icy surface traction make the lugs less rigid, further decreasing cornering stability on dry/rough surfaces.
waffle911 He was showing a passanger summer tire. Would have been much farer to show a snow or all season. Most rally cars here run cheapo snow tires.
Yes it would have been a better comparison if he has used a snow, mud or small off road truck tire.
Yeah, they are just like snow tires. Besides tread pattern and design, compound, sidewalls, the belts in them, etc etc... oh and that rally tires don't work worth a crap in the snow ;)
This was a good video but pretty boring, to me at least haha
I downvoted this video for too much mouth sounds.
You guys spent an entire video talking about tires but never once mentioned friction coefficient. Sure, "grip" is a colloquial term or friction coefficient but a Pacejka model will clearly demonstrate the differences between tires. However, there was not even the slightest hinting that such a thing exists. To be fair, throwing darts in the dark occasionally yields results but there was literally nothing of substance in this video to demonstrate what advantages rally tires have over highway all-season tires much less competing manufacturers and models of said rally tires. What is the difference in friction coefficient between a highway tire and a gravel tire? How does that friction coefficient change with camber/temperature/surface/slip angle/load/inflation pressure? Did you even ask the tire manufacturers for this information? If you can't answer this, you have no business recommending tires by any other metric than by cost.
If cost is your highest weighted factor in determining tires, you are on an amateur race team and you should be focused on getting to and completing at as many races as you can afford. There is a lot to be said for the amateur racer but amateur racers should absolutely not be wasting their time and money with bad advice. Get to as many races as you can afford and enjoy testing the laws of physics.
Why the complete bashing? I feel like the video was informative enough to not deserve getting so torn apart, insulted, and just rudely critiqued.
JUST SAYING. not trying to start an argument just stating a point as a person on CZcams with an opinion.
Paul, you so smart... they so stupid and poor. But what are you doing here? Got dropped from somewhere? No way to apply all your mighty knowledge other than shitting in comments?
wow..
I came here expecting a quick rundown. Pretty much what the video gave. This dude came in with a TI-83 expecting a college lecture. XD
Paul Donlin maybe you should make a video, since you are just so fucking well informed