Catalonian Independence: Why Are Millions Fighting to Separate from Spain? - TLDR News
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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At the start of last week, the results from Catalonia's regional elections began to emerge. For the first time parties supporting the region's independence won out, giving more credence to the independence movement. So in this video, we explain what some in Catalonia want to break free from Spain and whether that's likely to ever happen.
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1 - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...
2 - revistes.iec.cat/index.php/CHR...
3 - www.cambridge.org/core/books/...
4 - www.britannica.com/biography/...
5 - www.britannica.com/place/Cata...
6 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
7 - www.cambridge.org/core/books/...
8 - www.cambridge.org/core/books/...
9 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
10 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
11 - www.theatlantic.com/internati...
12 - www.economist.com/europe/2010...
13 - www.theatlantic.com/internati...
14 - www.theguardian.com/world/201...
15 - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...
16 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
17 - www.theguardian.com/world/201...
18 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
19 - commonslibrary.parliament.uk/...
20 - english.elpais.com/elpais/201...
21 - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...
22 - www.politico.eu/article/catal...
I'm mildly annoyed that they labelled the map in the thumbnail with "Spain" and "not Spain", instead of Spain and Spain't
España and Espa-no
which will soon became Spain and not Spain
AH, sunny Spain. Or 'North Gibraltar' as I like to refer to it.
True, Better "Spain" and "Cataloia"
So oslo, Portugal is west Gibraltar?🎗
While a series on disputed regions would certainly be interesting, you're inevitably gonna make people pretty angry with it, lol.
I'm afraid you're right on this, almost all borders worldwide have been disputed,but I don't fault TLDR for trying to grow their audience!
thats the point of a dispute
@Shaun Donald Trump is proof of it
@@innocento.1552 "Yumpf bad orange man Drumpf is definitely equatable to Catalonia's situation!"
Grrrgh😉
We want the disputed territories series!
On the one hand yes, but on the other I can see the potential chance that them staying neutral means favouring one side by not being honest on who is in the wrong.
@@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc news isn't about who is in the wrong. It is listing known facts about current series of events and their impacts. Not speculation, morality or judgment.
@@KelticStingray Except sometimes you just have to say that one side is wrong. Like the storming of the capitol. There was no evidence of the stuff they were claiming and then they stormed the capitol (i.e. it is the right and factually accurate thing to condemn the people storming the capitol).
@ჶ Troopa3xd ჶ What exactly do you mean?
@ჶ Troopa3xd ჶ Why should I (if I understand your point)?
The disputed territory in Cyprus would be interesting to learn more about
Interesting topic, but very difficult to discus on CZcams because of the political situation.
Last video's they did on the Turkey/Greece problems were very bad, i'd prefere a more mature channel to take that on :p
@Henry Bushell ooh ooh oooooh! Swing that handbag Henry!
@@estraume because of censorship.
Oh god no, I like my island not being mentioned in any shape or form thank you.
I'd like to see the (pointless) dispute about the Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco summit between France and Italy.
@Aye Ayee yes, but it's the highest in the alps and can bring a lot of tourism.
If you want more context basically:
It was always Italian, but the French also claim it, In my opinion we can divide it, by putting the border there, but the french want it all.
Im italian and when i think about it I’m so embarrassed 😞
Just give it to Belgium.
@@hendrikdependrik1891 based 😂
There's a Treaty that says the border is on the watershed between the States, so one side is Italian, the other is French. But of course France wants it all...
I mean, it sums up the recent history of the independence movement, but lacks the reason for its origin, which is what the title of the video talks about
The argument I see being thrown around is that Catalonia is so rich that it carries the entire Spanish economy. Something I very much disagree with.
@@subatenome It is a significant amount but in no way carries the country, that's delirious talking.
20% is quite a lot for a province that's not the country's capital and if the other 15 provinces have a joint effort of 60%, that's just a whole lot of money going to the capital with barely anything in return
@@nikolaradulovic5283 Barely anything in return? Catalonia enjoys an extremely high level of self-government within Spain.
Also take into account that Catalonia's relative weight in the Spanish economy has been going steadily down in the last few years. it's no longer the richest region but the 2nd, having been surpassed by Madrid, and per capita there are a few other regions that are richer. It used to be much higher as it was one of the few places in Spain that industrialized properly in the XIXth century, but that historical advantage is long gone as the rest of the country caught up.
@@juanpabloperezgomez4349 High Self-governance? Sorry? That is Navarra who doesnt pay taxes to the state.
Think that before Franco, Catalonia and the Basque Country were Foral. And after the death of Franco, Catalonia and Euskal Herria lost their rights because helped the republican back then. Navarra supported Franco and still have their rights.
As a Canadian this reminds me of the 1990s and Quebec. Would love to see a video summarizing that fight
How did they manage to get a referendum?
@@MrEnric98 A majority of members in Quebec's legislative assembly voted to conduct a referendum, that's how. Canada's provinces are semi-sovereign entities so they can pretty much do what they please in any area not constitutionally reserved to the national government. Canada's constitution has no provisions concerning secession of a province but it was generally recognized that a vote to leave in any province would have to be taken seriously on moral and democratic grounds. The Supreme Court's position was that secession had to be conducted legally, but both parties had a duty to conduct negotiations in good faith and that bad faith acts by either could undermine that side's standing in terms of international recognition.
Applying the Canadian good faith logic to the Catalan situation, you'd be hard-pressed to come to a conclusion of anything other than bad faith behaviour on the part of the Spanish government, as they, unlike in Canada, definitively rule out having a referendum on secession at all.
What you are not telling is that in case of a Quebecois secession, they will lose a sizable portion of territory towards the northeast, and be confined to strictly French-speaking areas. Just as Catalonia will be reduced on a significant way if excluded from them areas in which the majority are Spanish speakers, say, Tabarnia.🎗🤣
@@joselugo4536 tabarnia doesn`t exist. Invention.
Neither an independent Catalonia on the entire history of Humanity.
Fair play for taking on topics which are, by definition, contentious. I'm looking forward to more videos in the series!
I normally love this channel's videos and I still believe that this video is well made. However, in this particular case in which the topic at hand is one I know particulary well, I feel like there are too many big omissions and massive details that have been omitted which paint things in a different light than they really are. Mind you, these omissions are not in favour of any particular side, rather they do not let people have the full picture. For example stating that the independence movement started in the 1920's does not make much sense: either you go to its roots several centuries earlier or you only mention the modern independence movement. Or saying that there was only a 43 percent turnover in the 2017 independence referendum without mentioning that pro-Spain voters mostly did not participate in the referendum whereas many pro-Independece people who wanted and tried to vote where not able because the police was trying to avoid the referendum to take place. Again: this does not mean that they are taking any one's side: in fact the omissions hurt both side's rethoric and of course I understand that they cannot do a one hour long video because they need the views, but this leads me to think that probably when they treat other country's issues that I am not well-versed in, maybe they are also omitting large pieces of information and I cannot get a well-rounded picture.
There are smart techno kids who have no first hand idea or real sensitivity of the topic of which they have so impressively digitalised. I like their cartoons too, mind.
Yes I also wonder, for instance I live in Northern Ireland and most people who talk about it unifying with southern Ireland have no idea what they are talking about
100% true
@@WizzardJC with Brexit and the border fight it’s looking more likely for y’all
Yes they do. They always misinform simply because they don't dive in deeper.
In Belgium is there something simular going whit Flanders and Wallonia. And we now got a goverment since the last video :). Sidenote I think Puidgimont got refuge in Flanders when Spain wanted to arrest him.
@@DrBreadstick While economically it sounds good. I think there will be a lot of resistance to this idea. Especially from the Flemish side.
@@Roeckx if I may, why do you think this idea would be met resistance in flanders ? As a frenchspeaking belgian from brussels, I have met a few walloons who said they wouldn't mind becoming french should Belgium separate since the language is essentially the same. Does this feeling also apply to flemish and dutch people or not at all ?
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 independence is not the same as becoming part of a bigger country. I think most Flemish prefer to be part of Belgium than being a part of a bigger Netherlands.
What the Flemish want, is more control over their own laws, not independence. With the different reorganisations of Belgium, most of the demands have been met and it is no longer seen as an aspirational future.
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 There is a certain pride among the Flemish. So splitting Belgium just too merge with the Netherlands wouldn't sit well I think. But this is just my opinion that I have with anecdotal evidence.
I also believe that a Flanders-Netherlands merge would be economically very strong. But with Antwerp being the second largest port in Europe and Rotterdam being the first. There is a certain fear that the focus would shift more to the port of Rotterdam. (I work in the port of Antwerp btw) This way the benefit would be more for the Netherlands than Flanders.
@@MLV1000 there is some comment in this capslock
A video about the Italian Südtirol region and its willingness to be reannexed to Austria would be really interesting.
Reannexed is quite the thing to say since it was annexed by Italy in the first place.
@@jcup4702 yeah, and before that it was part of the austrian empire
I think the phrase you’re looking for is: to be returned to Austria
@@reichtangle7734 And the territory of Istria must return to Italy.
Well, this is due to both Austria and Italy, and Italy lost Riviera and Corsica to France. And Dalmatia. They played badly. Both actually.
Thank you for this video.
We'd love to see discussions on these regions:
- Hong Kong
- Kashmir
- Taiwan
- Kosovo
- Northern Cyprus
- Palestine
- Crimea
Great way for the entire world to explode
Somaliland
@@helioseklipse they're entirely in china (the first two) and hope is to be abandoned
Some people just want to see the world burn
Repuplik of srpska
If you’re feeling brave you could cover Cornish Independence
Thats a thing?
@@tomrogue13 yeah in a way they want to be separated from being called Devon and Cornwall and call themselves cornwall and then deven will be devon/devonshire. I also think they should kind of separate In terms of region. cornish do have there different ways to that of devonshire lot
@@Pdh24 the only problem being Cornwall and Devon are too of the poorest counties
@@Pdh24 I'm not sure what you mean, because Devon and Cornwall are already separate counties with their own councils.
@@tomrogue13 google the Mebyon Kernow party, they’ve got 4 seats in Cornwall council and want Cornwall to be a country within the United Kingdom like Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as opposed to a county of England
Good Video, big thanks from Catalonia ;-)
Spain is somewhat of a champion in disputed borders... 3 exclaves in Morocco, Olivença, Gibraltar, all the separatist states...
And an exclave in France and an island that they share with France that 6 month of the year is Spanish territory and the 6 others French lol
@@MLV1000 it actually brings xenophobia in general. It is creating hispanophobia in Catalonia and Catalanphobia in the rest of Spain.
@@alexderamon2060 Calling it an island is maybe too much. It is super small piece of land in the middle of a river with nothing in it. Calling it "an exclave" is a little much.
Meanwhile the UK.
Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Falklands, Antarctica, every fucking island in the Pacific.
Believe me, Spain is nowhere close.
All the separatist states? Just as a pointer, Spain has no states but regions (technically the name is Autonomous Comunities). But, as far as my knowledge goes, the only two separatist movements are Catalonia and the Basque Country (which is now not very buoyant).
Spain has always been a very regional country. Asturias is different from Murcia, Catalonia is nothing like Seville and Extremadura's culture differs massively from that of the Basque Country.
Regionalism has always been a thing. Many people identify themselves as "galician" or "valencian" rather than "spanish". I'd even say that european sentiment is bigger than the national one, in some cases. Spain's nationalistic sentiment isn't generally strong, for a lot of historic reasons.
That being said, Catalonia has always had that strongly regional sentiment. Modern independence movements are the result of nearly 20 years of exploiting that sentiment for mere political gain, aided by Madrid's perpetual disdain and inability to deal with the subject. It's quite sad, imho. Yeah, Catalans have a culture different from Castillians, and so what? So do Asturians or Canarians and (pretty much) no one is asking for independence.
Now we find ourselves with a polarized society, two halves of a region believing in absolutely opposite ideals as a result of political irresponsibility. Dialogue is what this situation begs for, but sometimes I think the damage has already been done, and that even if independence doesn't happen, it will take at least a generation to clear today's issues. Many young people really believe that spain is a pseudo-fascist regime and that independence is the only answer to that. That's not gonna disappear in a few weeks, even if a referendum comes out against of independence.
The easiest* solution, in my opinion, is to have an equitable federalized system that's organized bottom-up, instead of a hyper-centralized state that pushes the same agenda on everybody whether it's suitable for their local situation or not.
"Madrid" has far too much power -- the national agenda should be decided by every region together, every region's agenda should be decided by every municipality together, and so on.
*Not _easy,_ mind. Just easier than the others.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs That'd have a point if Spain was not already a federal state in all but name, and extremely decentralized. To say that "Madrid" has too much power completely misses the point.
Spain is a hyper-centralized state now? I really don't think that's true.
That's why "Spain is different"
Hypercentralized such as France?🗼🤣
Western Sahara’s independence movement could be quite interesting, I know Trump put some fuel on the fire before his term ended by recognizing Morocco’s sovereignty there
IDK if the current US government care about that region anyway. But knowing Biden they might undo the recognition just to piss Trump
They might not but I expect them to take a more Atlantic orientated shift in foreign policy and that would of course fit that narrative. Also with Biden’s push for strengthening democracy globally the oppression of Sahrawi’s might not go unnoticed.
I also think it’ll be important economically in the years to come with European countries creating stronger trading ties to sub Saharan Africa and the western coast is one of the safest regions of the Sahara. I expect the Moroccan gov to start implementing heavier handed policies in the south.
@@cathalkelley8751 the us goal is to sthregthen its interest. So as long as Morroco stay on good term with America than the us has no need to make a new enemy
@@cathalkelley8751 amd about the economic stuff Morroco had sign a deal with europe to sthrengthen economic ties as well to develop the region
Oppresion tf you talking about sahrawis are moroccans , if they were really buying for the creation of the sahrawi state why did they only fight Moroccos Claim , why not algerias sahara , and libyas and mauritanias , the polisario as a whole is a puppet of algeria , it was funded and created it to have revenge on Morocco over the sand war , the sahara and many regions were always moroccan but europeans carved us up and made my country as small as tunisia , sahrawis in morocco also are happy , my father is sahrawi descendant he identifies as moroccan , also the polisario current leader isnt even sahrawi hes a moroccan from marrakesh , the group also has done human and drug trafficking , they have done criminal acts to fund their group and overall you people still having the idea of supporting them is frankly quite idiotic
You guys should do a video on the Western Sahara, it is usually over looked when talked about disputed areas, but it is pretty important for most North African relations.
Nothing to talk about here . As long as the algerian military regime back these mercenaries they will always be tensions now Morocco is ready to support also the Kabyle independence in north Algeria . Fire with fire
What's mor important is The independance of Kabylia and the Touaregs lands that are colonized by the algerian army
Im from layoune sahara. Sahara was always moroccan
Guys, I would appreciate if you will do a video on Transnistria. A very complex, yet such a neglected issue. Greetings from Moldova.
I'd like to see coverage on the Basque independence movement!!
Guys you have to put the precentage of people that voted in the non-binding referendum not just the result, otherwise the % of the votes are meaningless. Come on get your shit together.
There's no official turnout figure, but estimations put it between 37 and 41%.
@@juanpabloperezgomez4349 I know but that should be mentioned like the binding referendum.
@@dom968 I mean they did. Skip to 7 minutes in and they literally mention it.
@@user-ku3bu7se8n (5:15) is the 2014 non-binding referendum which TLDR gave no % percentage of voter turn out. (19:00) is the 2017
@@dom968 Yeah, that's definitely info that should have been there.
I think this video overlooked two big facts, which painted a distorted version of how Catalonians feel about this: 1. Since 2017 and before, polls have never shown a clear majority support for independence, with both options usually a few points below 50% (because of undecided respondents). What polls consistently show is that Catalonia is divided in two very polarized halves. 2. The results of both referendums have to be taken with a bunch of salt. Obviously, most people against independence was against the illegal referendums too, so they didn't show up. I was surprised you didn't mention the turnout of the 2014 consultation was a mere 37%. And the 2017 referendum was a huge mess, with no guarantees at all that the results were trustworthy.
The overview of the independence movement was very lacking too, without delving into its causes, motivations nor why it became so popular in the last decades.
I think the fact that, as of today, there's no clear majority support for indepedence shouldn't obscure the fact that around 70% supports holding a referendum, something that the Spanish government would go out of its way to prevent from happening. Often through the most authoritarian and questionable methods.
And let's not foget that the pro-independence bloc has consistently won every single election since the current movement started.
@@dionbaillargeon4899 democracy is a mistake
I think that holding a referendum is the only way to know where the actual majority stands, and i also think that the fact that Spain does everything it can not to grant a popular vote, also recurring to violent and shameful methods, is more eloquent than any discussion about possible voters.
@@arielschant9841 The thing is the goverment is obligated by law to enforce the constitution no matter which party is ruling or what they actually prefer to do.
@@lizerbernad4448 If the constitution says that a people has no right to self-determination and the State has to smash senior citizens’ heads on the street because of their simple will to just make their voice heard (and in a time when self-determination of the people is so central to society), then the constitution has to be changed to better fit the time it is living.
The violent and/or repressive way the situation has been so far managed by the Kingdom looks like how authority worked in the 70’s, and it should not be part of what European citizenship means in this century.
Especially when millions of citizens are asking to be consulted whether not be subjects of a king anymore, and explore the option to transition into a parliamentary republic system.
It is just not right by any means not to grant them even the chance to a legally non-binding consultation referendum…
I'd love a series on disputed regions and independence movements. One about Belgium wanting to slip in 2, I've heard about that idk if Belgians support it tho, could be good. Spain is full of independence movements aren't they?
And what happened with the Independence Movement for The Isle of Dogs? 😉
In Spain there are separatist movements in three regions: Catalonia, Basque Country and Galicia.
It isnt surprising at all. Most countries of the world have at least a territory with separatist movements.
@@MiguelLopez-yc2rh not only those I'd also add movements in the other 2 Catalan speaking autonomies, they're not as important tho (and I'd add that Basque country isn't only a thing at the Basque country itself but Euskal Herria (Basque Country + a part of Navarre)
@@edwardoleyba3075 What's that, I have no clue what your on about?
@@tsareric1921 . It was a bit of a spoof movement some years ago. The Isle of Dogs is in east London. They wanted their own local council there.
Szeklerland in Romania would be nice to include too. It's rarely talked about in English. :)
Hahaha where are you from?
Agree
Ön magyar?
the high pro-independent result on both referendums is because unionist boycotted it from the get-go and many did not vote, it does not really mean much. Polls are more reliable and it has been a toss-up for more than a decade now (btw pre 2005 independentist were a tiny minority many Catalans still believing on enhanced self-governance via constitutional reform)
That is not the case. 43% of the census has shown to be in favour, which means that with a turnout of 80% in a referendum accepted by Spain, the Yes has chances to win with no doubt.
@@bernatboschfolch go to a stats class please
@@bernatboschfolch 43% was the turnout
Another interesting and well researched video. Thank you.
Yes, "Disputed Regions" would be up my street.
I wonder if this would include regions or territories which WERE disputed but enjoy, today, a mutually beneficial autonomy.
Eg: Monaco, Isle Of Man, London City..... and what are those benefits, loopholes and tax dodges agreed by both territories.
great video!
I really liked this video, very interesting, learned quite a bit, and it cleared up some things. Would appreciate a video on Ocitanian independance, if that is not popular then a video on the westen sahara would be interesting (the unrecognised country underneath Moroco). Thank you very much have a good day and keep up the hard work.
Millions is an overstatement...
thank you
Thanks G
I'm from Puerto Rico, so, I would love to see your take on Puerto Rico's status issue.
Transnistria would be interesting to be covered in this channel.
Danke!
Please do more of these! One on Rojava or Cyprus would be interesting.
cyrus is turkey
A disputed regions series would be awesome
I would be very interested in an analysis on flemish nationalism in Belgium and the current state of belgium in general from your perspective. As a belgian, I often find external views on this topic to be way more hindsightful than the very divided coverage from our national media
A disputed border (kinda): The Normand Archipelago aka the Channel Islands. From the split of the duchy of Normandy in 1204 to the "Northern Patagonia" prank that still goes on (last occurence in july 2019) including the Saint-Marcouf restitution
South-Tyrol independence/reunification with Austria would make for an interesting video since almost all parties in their regional parliament are autonomist or seperatist (except the far right LN).
Really?
Separatism in Italy is overinflated.
Il Sud Tirolo è e sempre rimarrà italiano, punto. Non daremo mai più occasione all'Austria di valicare il confine.
@@bajlozi6873 Hmm?
@@FlagAnthem Well i mean technically the whole north wants to separate but South Tyrol has another language, culture and history than the rest of italy so its probably the most likely to separate...
9:50 i think you should do Northern Ireland
Maybe I’m biased because I literally live 300 meters from the border in a town split in half by it, but I really think an analysis of the Irish border is needed just to show the reality of it to a lot of people
You might need a whole series...
@@jetwaffle1116 in what way?
Most of northern Ireland do not want to merge. Wouldn't be the same video at all
@@TheMarineGamerIGGHQ it could be more focused on that historical aspect and explaining the troubles?
In 2014 a referendum was held, in which 80% of voter answered yes to independency... but something important is missing. ONLY 43% of the population voted in that referendum, voters for yes, mostly. The rest of the population (mostly voters for no) did not vote, because the referendum was illegal.
*No 1: Don't Only Hope On Government For Income,*
*No 2: As An Individual Look For Different Self Income Not Only Waiting on Monthly Wages,*
*No 3: Always Save The Little You Can And Think Of What To Do With It When It Become Good For Capital.*
*It's 100% Good To Have Different Ways To Gain Income*
*Because Government have failed us so therefore let's try and survive*
Yes ! For real It is very important to have different streams of income and a diversified portfolio as for me I have already invested in crypto which is very profitable and easy to gain
Exactly I'm also happy to start investing too than to have my money sleeping in bank
Stocks are good but we have to make the right plans
Yes Stocks are good but they are alot of businesses more convenient than stocks
That’s the fact well I only invested in stocks and will love to know a better investment too
It would be great to see an episode on the dispute between Flanders and Wallonia in Belgium. Although, bear in mind that a lot of people will be pleased and or angry with these types of things. Even so, it would be great because you simply present the facts and there is little to no Bias in the reporting :)
would be interested to get your take on the disputed subject of the reunification of the island of Ireland, especially given the recent border/Brexit issue
You'd likely not want to touch this subject with a 10 foot pole, and I don't blame ya, but I'd love to hear your take on the Palestinian Authority, Gaza and the territories occupied by Israel (yes, you can hear the bias in the question).
It's not biased lol, what they are doing is against un law
@@evolution__snow6784 I meant I am biased (well, actually, every one is - I'm just being upfront about it). I'm not stating my bias, though, but you are welcome to guess at it :-)
@@evolution__snow6784 you know what? I fixed the question to be slightly less biased (I believe - I am, after all - biased - so I may be wrong about this).
There was no bias the comment it was 100% factual without any bais
To touch that from a 10 foot pole? Not even by remote controled robots across a continent and inside of a bunker lol
You guys missed why there is such a strong sense of nationalism which goes back to medieval times. The video gives the impression that it is very recent, and while there have been some major events in recent years, the history goes way back.
It’s never been as strong as now because hispanophobia has never been institutionalised as it is now. The strongest nationalisms prior to the current one occurred in the XVIII century
That's like saying that Nazism goes way back because it talks about the origins of the German people and the Holy Roman Empire. Let's be honest, all nationalism tries to justify itself in history, that's what is all about, but the current political movement's roots are what they are, just like Nazism started with a certain moustached fellow and not with the existence of the Germanic tribes.
Absolutely! The world (at large) doesn't even know "Catalunya", let alone knowing the hundreds-of-years history between this country and Spain, before the territory of "Spain" even existed, and Catalunya was its own, independent nation.
@@SimplyHealthTips Well technically it was the Kingdom of Aragon, which had the area of Catalunya comprised within it, but also other areas. Just to be technical👌
@@SC00B52 Yes. True. Catalan was spoken in the area, although I wasn’t there at the time. ;-)
And this is why Scotland leaving the UK and joining the EU is so stupid, spain would never allow Scotland to Join, imagine the confidence that would give the Catalans.
Omg, how many times has that claim already been debunked.
@@ab-ym3bf if you truly believe that I question you're ability to comprehend geopolitics. Country states will always do what's in their best interest. A independent Scotland is contrary to Spain's best interest.
But Lil'England is beyond the EU borders, why Spain would care for a non-member?
@@joselugo4536 Because it would send a message to the Catalans that if you gain independence you can just join the EU and everything will be fine and dandy, which goes completely against Madrid's agenda. Therefor it would be in the best interest of Spain to block Scottish accession.
As the UK is no longer a member of the EU it doesn't apply the rule of not allowing a new member carved out from a member state. Catalonia would lose membership inside the European Union if it declared an unilateral independence, because SPAIN is a standing member STATE.
Catalan here. The topic is definitely hard to tackle in a 10 min video. Probably not intentionally, but some of the simplifications made seem inspired from a ERC pamflet. Separatists don't have a clear majority in popular support, but due to the election law get always the control of the government. Shouting referendum and democracy doesn't make them more democratic, the laws they passed before the October referendum are against the most basic democratic principles. Independence is a very legit political goal, but not by any means. A referendum with a 50℅ cut is clearly not a way to solve this issue (it might be the last resort for a war torn country, but catalan society is still strongly embedded in Spain). Looking at Scotland, it worked for a few years... Once a yes is passed, will we held referendums for reunification?
All it does is split catalan society along national axis. The former government coalition had anticapitalist with free market lovers "working" together, which is why we went to elections. And the same coalition seems to build as only alternative after the veto of erc to psc. During these times ig crisis, see a government more occupied for infighting between independentist factions and undermining central government did not bring joy, probably also why many people didn't go to vote. We're back at the start, they talk about a new unilateral referendum, groundhog day
Last elections separatists got more than 50% of popular vote
Good points Pau. Do not compare Scotland with Catalonia. Scotland would be asking to join the EU. Catalonia would be leaving. And Spain would not consent to an Independent Scotland whilst it can fastidiar with its EU vote.
@@MrDrbld good point as well. I just used the example of Scotland to show that a referendum is not the ultimate solution as it is tirelessly repeated by catalan separatists. Although many similarities can be drawn, Scotland and Catalonia are different in many ways.
On that note catalans want independence but would see leaving the EU as a last resort to acquire independence and would like to join back in despite the obvious opposition of Spain.
And the Spanish state fearing an independent Scotland, or any independence movement within the EU is... Understandable at best. This is all "molt complicat"
Es veritat. However, one must prioritise what is achievable in the current circumstances. Making society ungovernable in pandemic is no help. All economies have been savaged by the Coronavirus as if by some kind of war. Catalan voters seem split still, so impasse, politically. Independance now? Makes sense if Catalonia would be better off as a consequence, but that does not look to be the case for next few years. BTW, the Scottish cause has just been set back by, well, corruption and political infighting. So looks like Spanish cohesion is the better situation short term because Catalans will get the benefits of a stronger state aid system backed by the EU.
@@MrDrbld I can't agree more. Although we are pretty good at corruption and political infighting, both in Madrid and Barcelona
If u are going to talk about disputed territories, Maybe also talk about the Dutch/Belgian town of Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog and the river where the border between the two countries was changed.
It shows that you're stronger together and it is not impossible to negotiate
Thanks for explaining this so well
Here in Scotland we had a legally binding referendum in 2014 in which both sides promised to respect the result. That lasted 5 minutes before the nationalists started harping on about having another one..
The thing with referendums is that it is easy for them to become nerverendums.
These sorts of independence referenda are extremely one-sided too, because unionists will need to win every single referendum in perpetuity, while nationalists only need to win once. The SNP will continue to try to have a referendum again and again and again until they get the result they want
The Falkland Islands will be an awesome episode! Although it requires a lot of study about the subject from both sides!
He already released the Falkland episode on the TLDR UK channel
@@nicobortoluzzi8724 If i don't remember wrong, they only explanied the British Overseas Territories, not the dispute itself.
A complete video dedicated to the topic!!
I would like a series on disputed borders and territories. Those would be great.
Croatia has some interesting border disputes. On the Slovenian side there's a lot of drama, especially about access to the Adriatic.
The Serbian side has lots of issues because the border is basically the River Danube and rivers change course. There's even a section of land the size of Gibraltar which isn't claimed by either side and has been claimed by a Czech activist, founding a new country called Liberland.
Catalonia and Spain: arguing over independence.
Meanwhile Portugal thinking Olivença lookin Hella thick
A video about the italian Ladin communities would be interesting. The 5 groups, Cortina, Fassa, Fondom, Gardena and Badia, were essentially split up between 3 provinces and are, to this day, politically dominated by the german and italian language group. Despite beeing a minority language in italy, the oldest to be exact, they still dont have the same rights as German and French minorities. For example German and French have german/french translations on their documents, while ladin people dont.
could you cover the western cape independence movement? it''s the first time i've ever heard of a secession movement happening in south africa but it could be interesting to talk about. support is at around 34% atm
I think a video on Mayotte a territory of France in the Mozambique Channel which is contested by the Comoros islands would be a really interesting video
no honestly it would be boring. even if we were to pose that France did wrong in not giving Mayotte its independence with the rest, the fact is that today, right now, the people of Mayotte have no duty to join the Comoros if they don't want to. and the very very much do not want to.
@@Lapantouflemagic0 there was no “giving” there was a referendum on all islands and they decided not to live France
I am literally busy doing geography homework on Andalusia.
5:19 that referendum was a flop literally less than 40% of people participated cmon now.... and the 2017 one was completely chaotic.
Yeah, in the 2017 one, testimonies of people being able to vote 7 times and very low participation of non-independentist as they didn't recognise the validity of such referendum.
Yeah pretty poor reporting not to mention that a poll declared unconstitutional before it even occurred was likely to dissuade unionists from participating more than it would dissuade separatists.
@@ishrod_tweaks Then why is the Spanish government so afraid of making a referendum? And if there are more people against them in favor of independence why did the independents win the parliament?
@@joaolaja5961 Because the Spanish Constitution clearly states that the unity of Spain is indissoluble. There’s literally no legal framework for holding this referendum unless Spain were to draft a new Constitution. We have similar language in the US.
@@jalenbrown1363 A referendum doesn't jeopardize the unity of Spain, it is just a question to determine if the population wants Catalonia to become an independent state in the form of a republic.
Maybe you could do a video about Slovene-Croatian border(waters) dispute
Alberta within Canada, like to see a video o.
How can you call the 2017 "vote " a referendum ?
This so called referendum was held only by independentist, there were no list of registered voters (someone could vote multiple time at the same location), they counted vote before the end and with only independentist present.
This was a political manifestation but absolutely not a referendum.
There were voters rolls, you had your polling place defined (like in any other election) to avoid double-voting, and there was an additional internet backup system to also avoid double-voting.
When an armed terrorist organization destroys voting places, violently attacks voters all around the country in a coordinated attack, and disable phones and internet to avoid the validation in place, then you have to make do with watever you have on hand.
But you would not want to stop democracy just because a few ultra-nationalist terrorists coordinated violent attacks with foreign operatives on the day of the election, right?
@Jofre the video I have seen, no one checked the voter rolls. But I was not there so I will not contest it.
But calling the Spanish police a terrorist organization is very extreme and completely discredit everything else you might say.
I agree that the repression was a lot more violent that it needed to be. But when terrorist armed group launch a coordinated action, there are usually dozens of death (Paris attack for instance). So maybe you should adapt your vocabulary.
@@Bb13190 There was an attempt to use the voter rolls, but as I said, the government took down the internet to block online verification, and physically and violently took the written voter rolls from the places they could access. This is why the videos on the afternoon (when the Spanish government let the press record) don't show the voter rolls.
The concept behind the police attacks during the referendum was not to stop the vote --it was too late for that. The concept was to literally terrorize any potential voter into not voting. If there is an organization that wants to cause terror through violent attacks in order to achieve their political goals, I would call the organization terrorist.
Yes, there were no dead people directly because of the violence (there were dead people because of police blocking emergency services), but the violence caused 900 wounded, so I would also not say "it was nothing".
Whilst I'd consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to history, more modern history has sadly escaped me. I'd like to understand about Kosovo. When it comes to what the UN recognises, I dont think theres a more disputed region in Europe.
You should do the disputed regions in the Caucasus
Please make a video on the Bulgaria - North Macedonia dispute and their veto for the beginning of the discussions with the EU.
Well the main problem with Catalonias independence is that the Spanish Constitution very clearly states that the Territories and Autonomous Communities that constitute the territory of Spain are UNDIBISIBLE. Thats why the referedum was deemed ilegal before it even happened because it very clearly goes against the constitution.
In order to let Catalonia make a binding referendum for indepence the Constitution would have to be reformed first, wich is incredible hard needing a majority of 2/3s of the chamber to rerwite the
Preliminary Title wich is the one that covers this topic. This is incredibly hard not only in general but given the new political model of several parties in power that Spain has been having for the last years it's pretty much imposible to pass a Constitutional reform of said Title and of course Nation-wide parties don't want Catalonia to go independent because it's one of, if not, the wealthiest regions in Spain and the Independent movement it's pretty unpopular outside of Catalonia.
Furthermore reforming the Constitution to allow this kind of independent movements would really damage Spain as whole since not only Catalonia but both Galicia and the Basque Country have strong independent movements.
So as of right now the only way of achieving Catalonian indepence is through an armed conflict, wich, ain't gonna happen'.
It will happen something similar. We’ll be independent
I mean, the notion that “well the country that controls them now has to change their constitution first so they can’t be independent sorry” is imperialist dog shit, democracy decides, not bureaucracy
@@ninjacole803 they signed the constitution, didn't they?
@@sanjayrai2934 the constitution was dictated to them before the region had any autonomy, by a pseudo-facist dictator. So no, not really
@@ninjacole803 no I mean by reconquista
I remember seeing a Poll Catalunya wanting independence but weird enough was that many people in Barcelona voted against it. Imagine an independent Catalunya without the Main city.
Not to mention the polls were illegitimate with only a quarte of the people actually voting, and even then getting less than half
most people who live in barcelona are not catalan
I'd love if you would do Sudtirol and Veneto for Italy. I could provide you some contacts for interviews about boths.
tldr please do a vid on northern italy and its possible separatist movements (mostly veneto)
The Western Sahara, for sure! Between the renewed war between Morocco and the SADR and the seeming trade of US recognition of Morocco’s claim to the territory for Moroccan recognition of Israel, it is definitely an overlooked region.
true!!! btw i wouldn't go so far as to call it a renewed war since there is only skirmishs.
Actually Together for Catalonia the ERC and the Popular Unity Candidacy, didn't reach 50% of the vote. All three combined reached 48%, is when you add up the numbers of the also independentist Catalan European Democratic Party, a party seceded from Together for Catalonia that takes a more moderate stance on the independence issue, it's more right-wing and didn't achieve representation this election that you get more than 50% of the votes. 52% if you include the even smaller parties.
Disputed regions - anywhere involving a dispute from China (and the associated legality of such disputes) would be an interesting starting area.
I'd like to see some content on the Bengali region, since it crosses multiple borders of various types, encompassing Bangladesh, parts of India and more. A video on this would lend itself to exploring some complex and historic issues, in which the UK played a major role as colonising power.
Looking forward to this series!
The indepedence on my opinion is a bad decision for them since they are already a part of EU. Even if they gained independence they would most likely have to apply to join the EU and spain would veto their admission. It just isn’t worth it.
Even if they Spain refused them joining the EU, they can sign unilateral treaties, like any basically every country in the world. Plus, they are the richest province in Spain, if they leave, they won't be dragged down by the rest of Spain anymore.
Micheal Davis
Spain can veto treaties with the eu which is catalonia‘s biggest partner, therefore it would have a bad economic effect. It can also pressure other countries to not sign bilateral treaties with catalonia, like china does with other nations in the case of taiwan.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Actually, when they suggested independence 1500 companies left Catalonia. And it was not a real independence declaration. Soooo... no.
@@pekojounin Coward bourgeoise will always flock to the highest bidder. Here in Catalunya we call them botiflers 😂
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Catalonia is not the richest region of Spain by any metric.
I'd love to see an episode about the Sami people and their politics. I always wondered if they are cool with being part of Sweden and Norway or if they want independence
Congrats, very well documented.
Nice video. You did miss the juicy topic: what would happen to Catalonia from a EU membership point of view?
there would be no way Spain would allow it
@@frazzyten2447 i don't think it's so black and white. While agreeing with you that spain would never willingly approve it, it is also true that Catalonia is such a big part of spanish economy that not having any trade deal/close relationship with them would be a huge hit. So, I'm not so sure.
@@renatogolia211 Most companies have said they would leave Catalonia for Valencia already. In fact, around 1500 changed their central HQs from Barcelona to Alicante when the independence was suggested last time.
So, i don't see it happening.
@@frazzyten2447 i don't ser why it wouldn't because on a scenario on wich Catalonia becomes independent there would have to be a change in the spanish constitution wich would mean that most of the people of Spain would be fine with It existing as a country and also I think Spain said that they wouldn't veto an indepeni scotland so I think they would accept it
This never going to happen
I would like to ad that the turnout was only ~53% (2017:~79%), so a legal mandate would be slim.
and the "unionist" parties didnt campaign, instead told people to stay home
Edit: I mean on October 1st 2017, during the (deemed illegal) referendum
@@MsPerchero That's absolutely false, of course they campaigned.
@@MsPerchero That is a lie. They campaigned and they told everyone that it was safe to vote and they encouraged everyone to vote. It's easy to find videos of Illa, Garriga, Carrizosa and Fernández all encouraging people to vote.
@@pol... we are talking 2017s 1-O, not last month
@@MsPerchero In that case you are absolutely right. The pro-union forces did, in their majority, not vote in the 2017 referendum. However there was also many pro-independence forces who also were not able / who were afraid to vote since the police was trying to stop the referendum. It is clear that that referendum was NOT a reflection of the popular opinion, though.
I found this to be very balanced. Thank you.
Perhaps it'd be good if this video could be edited to include a longer version (5 min+) with more details
It's worth pointing out that out of the 14 articles reviewed, only 4 were fully suppressed, the rest being subject to minor modifications.
And, although the Sentence's preamble was pretty inflammatory, the highlight of the court's decision was the modification of Art. 218, which would have allowed the catalan parliament to regulate how much the region contributes to the state budget.
The REAL problem is a same papers were presented for the comunnity of Andalucia and they had 0 modifications, fully accepted, Catalan outrage is quite plausible...
@@perrymanso6841 Andalucia never did the same. Not all reforms of an Statute of Autonomy are the same.
The same way a contrat that makes you work for less than minimun wage is illegal but barely over it, isn't.
@@_extrathicc The points shattered to pieces in the Catalan Statute, were copied and approved in the Andalusian one. You can search for It.
@@perrymanso6841That's one of the talking points of the nationalists but it's easily disproven if you take the time to research whether it's true or not.
A series on contentious borders and disputed regions would be incredibly interesting! Taiwan and Hong Kong are two great options to start with 🤩🙌🏼
Hong Kong y Taiwan no tienen nada que ver con Cataluña
We want more
It’d be interesting to hear about the disputed borders & the independence movement of Abkhazia in Georgia.
Abkhazia and South-Ossetia go hand in hand.
7:42
I think there’s some slight hiccup there?
But regardless I think this is a pretty good and informative video. 👍🏻
I don't think there is, the spanish are the majority in catalonia so it would make sence that they would vote against.
@@krokuke eksid
@@vulc1 A 2007 demographic survey concluded that 50% spoke spanish as their first language and 32% catalan
@@krokuke Esiteks, su protsendid on väga valed. Mul on siin käepärast Euroopa konsortsiumi (st mitte Hispaania riigi või ettevõtte) tehtud 2018. aasta uuring. Küsimus: Millist keelt kodus kõige enam räägitakse? Vastused: kastiilia 52%, katalaani 42%, araabia 1,5%, inglise 1,1%, muu 3,4%. Teiseks, millel põhineb su veendumus, et peamiselt kastiiliakeelsed on iseseisvuse vastu? Tegu on pealinna kõrval Hispaania kõige jõukama piirkonnaga, seega on Hispaaniast lahkumisest rohkem võita kui kaotada. Mis keeltesse puutub, siis ka peamiselt kastiiliakeelsed on suuremal või vähemal määral kakskeelsed, st katalaani keel ei ole probleemiks. Muide, katalaani idenditeet on väga tugev, näiteks kastiiliakeelsete immigrantide lapsed peavad ennast täiskatalaanideks, sh on ka separatistlikult meelestatud, isegi kui kodus veel peamiselt kastiilia keelt räägivad.
@@vulc1 See on sama nagu küsida "miks peaks venelased narvas tahtma venemaaga liituda?" Sama loogika kehtib hispaanlastele, majanduslikult jah, venelastel on parem eestis aga muidu kultuuri põhjal nad ikka tahavad venemaaga liituda. Ja mul tuli kirjaviga, ma tahtsin kirjutada 42% 32% asemel.
Cyprus please. I´m Spanish and I think this video summarised this complex subject quite objectively.
You have to discuss Quebec if you're doing such a series.
Can you make a video about the upcoming Dutch elections?
Do Biafra.. btw. I'm yoruba. But in support of self determination
7:16 *president, even though we are a constitutional monarchy it’s different than the UK's, in Spain the king doesn’t have such an important or venerated role, you can see this just by comparing the UK crown and the Spanish crown.
Edit: I forgot, we also call the leaders of autonomous regions president.
Edit2: The independence polls can be a bit confusing because there are different degrees of pro-Spain/pro-Catalonia, for example there are moderates in each side(more so in pro Catalonia) right wingers(more so in pro-Spain) and leftists (there are a lot on each side and also vary in degree)
The official translation of the Presidente del Gobierno in English is Prime Minister of Spain. The Spanish king has very similar constitutional powers to the British monarch
@@LordDim1 Yes, the spanish king does have some similar powers to the british one, only diference is that the spanish king has less off it and is very clearly marked as king under the rule of thumb of the people (technically) as when a new monarch is proclamed they don't put the crown on their head and the crown is also pretty dull compared to other european ones. To add to this, due to the scandals of king emeritus and his nomination as successor of a fascist dictator has greatly decreased their popularity.
Europe is getting so much countries, we will get to a point where every city is a country...
Oh you guys should discuss the dispute between Chile and Bolivia for access to the sea
Their arguments all seem to come down to "The people in Catalan voted for Catalan to become independant" but that doesn't matter.
If a random town in France decided it wanted to be independant, it wouldn't just become independant, you can't just decide to leave in and of yourself.
The votes that they assert justify their seperatism were proven illegal before they happened, something illegal cannot be a justification of why that thing is not illegal.
If their goal in this manner is illegal in Spain (which they are currently a part of) then it is ilegal, the only way around this would be to flatly deny the authority of the entire Spanish government (like a convicted criminal simply refusing what they did was illegal).
Catalonia is not a “random town” and to compare it to that is being dishonest. It’s a region with its own culture, its own language, its own history, its own defined borders.
A region should be able to secede from a country. Governments do not own the land and the people they rule over. They are legitimized only by the populace. If at any time a people does not give their legitimacy to the institutions above them, they should not need to keep following them. This is the heart of democracy. People participate on a voluntary basis.
Perhaps you would be convinced by the UN?
UN General Assembly Resolution 1514, article 2 states: “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
Right now, Catalonia is seeking self-determination and Spain is fighting it as colonizers often do. Illegality of the referendum is not an argument. If Spain wants to, it can let all attempts at a referendum be illegal in perpetuity, making it impossible for Catalonians to use their right to self-determination.
@@shappy60 I drew on a "random town" which was obviously an exaggeration, to highlight that it is irreverent if just the people of that region deside to be independant, by the argument that the people of the area deside whether it is independant, then i could declair my house independant and that the government could do nothing about it, i deliberately abstracted it from the real situation to focus on the argument itself, hense if a random town in France decided to independant would you really expect France to just give it to them? If that was the system no notable country would exist and governments would loose legal authority, e.g. You just murdered someone, oh wait your independant now and don't have an extradition treaty, oops oh well guess we have to accept that because they have self determination under the UN.
Onto the UN, if the majority of the people of Spain voted against the government of Spain on it's denial of Catalan's independance, then there would be no issue.
That complies with the UN self determination, and i cannot see how a democratic government could deny that, but it's not currently the people of Spain majority voting against the government, just the people of the Catalan region.
The fact a region has defined borders (in terms of legal authorities as a region of Spain) and it's own language and culture, are reasons it may want independance, but not arguments for why it has more of a right to independance than any other place with the same language culture and history as the rest of the country. So the example of a town was misrepresentative in that it abstracted from the specifics of the issue, but not is these aspects, as these aspects are only relavant in so much as they may affect a national vote. And do not provide any more legal legitimacy to their argument, which is what i was addressing.
@@shappy60 "Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples" I don't think Catalonia match that definition
@@granotaapellido839 sure not, since from the point of view of spain catalans does not have rights. No right of expression (a referendum is just that, express the opinion), no right of reunion (we all see what happens when people, peacefully, meets .. and Guardia Civil or Policía Nacional doesnt like the reason: they beat people like if they were figthing zombies), no right of comunications (closing webs for thousands), and it seems that they are not "people" either, just subjects. Only by this way you can say that, while U.N. chart talks about “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination" that does not include them.
When you need to say each day that spain is democracy it means that people doesnt believe it.
@@jordilt3449 Sureeeee
The video is missing a fair bit of context:
1: The Spanish Constitution does not allow for unilateral referendums. If Catalonia wants to secede, it must be by modificating the Constitution, or the conflict will continue
2. The rise of Catalan Nationalism in the 2010s is heavily linked to big corruption scandals in Catalonia, look up the name Jordi Pujol
3. This last Catalonia elections had a 50% participation due to the pandemic
Provided that it is demographically impossible that Catalonia, through its representatives in the Spanish Parliament & Senate, even with allies from other regions, enacts a constitutional reform allowing for a referendum, your dichotomy only leaves the option of continuing the conflict. Regardless of one's point of view, this is a rather dire solution (or lack thereof).
@@6abril1991 I agree, the current system does not leave much room for these kind of changes to happen. But the solution should not be to bypass every basic law and do whatever you please, we have clear evidence that this approach just leads to more conflict and polarization.
It is a complex issue with an even more complex solution, but I think we can all agree that both political sides have failed to deal with the situation in a realistic and serious way.
It's become an endless circus that feeds the media and social movements with no real political development to back the noise.
Point 1. was covered, point 2. would have been interesting, but given how old the movement is, it seems a tad unfair to put it down solely to that, and point 3. should have been mentioned. In any case it does not seem like the movement has enough support to justify seceding from Spain - such a thing should _just_ be down to the popular vote, not down to a majority in parliament that was achieved by other means, and the popular vote should have a clear majority (such as 2/3 or 3/4) and a large turnout, so people only voting on a whim don't swing it.
50% of a 50% turnout really doesn't cut it.
@@6abril1991 Ese argumento podría ser aplicado a cualquier subconjunto minoritario del país hasta el individuo.
@@MalloonTarka Point 2 might seem unfair to you, but the reality is that the old CiU was never out and out independentist, and only became so (radically changing the political balance in Catalonia and triggering the current stage) when hounded by the courts after their decades of corruption were exposed, and wrapping themselves in the Catalan separatist flag was their only way of surviving politically. I can respect ERC's independentism because that was always in their genes, so to speak, but it's much more difficult to do the same for Ciu/Junts.
Can you tell me what graphics software you used for this video?
The Team could do videos about The Kurils, South Sudan, or perhaps...... Saami Region. It would be great to see videos about those :)
South Sudan seceded already
Something that outside observers fail to account for is that Catalunya is not the only region with an unique culture and identity within Spain. Spain is made up of multiple nationalities, all recognized and given a level of autonomy higher than most other countries in the world with similar regional differences. Many of the arguments put forth by the Catalan independence faction are equally true for late parts of the country, with some having suffered more historically yet receiving less attention.
Catalonia has been mistreated since the "Edictos de Nueva Planta", when the Bourbon suppressed their "fueros". The reason why Catalonia wants independence is because Spain is a train with no tracks, and Catalonia, that has been one of the richest regions of the country, is mad about it, it has been many times when dumb decisions from Madrid have affected catalonian economy; and the catalonian culture (with the basque one) are the only that have had major renaissances. Visca Catalunya independent!
So true. Barcelona was industrialized during the 19th century/early 20th thanks greatly to the favoritism Madrid's central government gave to Catalan nationalists, which had mostly bourgeois support, and also because the colonies Spain still held. It's been proven that Barcelona enriched itself partly thanks to the slave plantations in Cuba or Puerto Rico. Artur Mas was a descendent of a family of slave owners.
Not to say the Catalans don't have legitimate reasons to dislike the vestiges of Francoism in the Spanish political establishment but to claim they're _oppressed_ while regions such as Andalusia or Canary Islands were mostly forgotten in the early industrialization its funnt lolololo
@@danielforeroc Literalmente nadie te impide hablar catalán o celebrar la cultura catalana dejad de llorar sois la región más rica de España y os habéis beneficiado mucho más de lo que pensáis de ser parte de España. No sois los colonizados, sois los colonizadores
🗿
@@danielforeroc every region in Spain (and many other parts of Europe) has suffered mistreatment by the central government in the past. And saying only the Basque and Catalans have enjoyed a cultural Renaissance is just plain wrong (Galicia’s Rexurdimento happened at around the same time as Catalunya’s Renaixença). Catalunya has also enjoyed benefits in the past and present, like industrial investment and grants to monopolize certain trades and industries, to the detriment of other regions of Spain.
I agree, those other regions should also be independent. They can federate afterwards if they want to maintain close ties with the other regions of what used to be Spain.
Or at the very least Spain should be reorganized into an equitable federal state, where the national agenda is decided by all the regions together, instead of imposed by a central government whether it suits the local situation or not.