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Oh and deep analysis is a shit card that frog makes mediocre. Not a powerhouse at 3 mana that you can pop on your opponents endstep to not only refill your hand but take out irrelevant cards from it.

I'd also say that frog allows nethergoyf+murktide to function better than normal. Not great. Do not recommend. But it does allow a 3 goyf, 2 murktide, 4 frog package to at least perform, and you have the ability to pivot from one strat to the other or vice versa and bin cards that do not enable pursuing a win quickly.

It's still conditional but a little less conditional than your other answers

Something Something better to be lucky than good...

Really just some early filtering since you don't want to be spending your mana often if you're not playing a threat or countering something. But I did mention towards the very end of the video that I'd probably just cut them for considers going forward.

Thanks so much! I have not tried it yet, mostly because there have just been other cards that I was curious about trying first. But I did lose to a crabvine deck playing it.

I could see it being really good in dredge for sure. I'll have to check the lineup. Usually I record stuff ahead of time and set it on a release schedule, but sometimes things get pushed back if there's something like a premier event that needs to be released sooner.

@@thecntrlfreak1347 ty for the info!:)

Veil of summer is, and forever will be, the card that makes me die a little inside when I see it on the other side.

I think if murktide starts making a return, it could be. Or if we find some more cards that are decent to discard.

13/13head?

No argument there. I think the card is pretty terrible, but someone is going to bring it up if I don't play it.

Too good might be a little overkill haha

Yay for copyright warnings and having to replace bits of audio with youtube suggested tracks!

Mike's 13/13head

I mean I can appreciate a sweet game when it comes up and kicks you in the face

I reneg my comment because I’m blind and at work 😂

haha I was gonna say I'm pretty sure I made like 4 comments about how I would ONLY play it with Murk

they're too pricey for my budget and I love shadow. Was curious about the psy frogs, what do you think?

I'd probably replace them with like 2 murktide and another dismember first, and replace the wraiths with considers. If murktide is out of the question as well, then psychic frog is probably the third option. But I haven't tested the frog much so I can't really swear by it.

Thanks so much! I really appreciate the feedback. If you're a fan of Terror in Pauper especially, this deck is right up your alley. The xerox style gameplay with wraith, bauble, and preordain in the early turns is very similar, so much so that Tolarian Terror has been tried in some builds before.

This feedback was nice to read to be honest. Modern is a unique beast so I hope you find your home soon.

It would be a lot worse if it were a double black card that you absolutely had to cast on turn 2, but you can get away with casting it turn 3 or 4 if you interact early.

That's awesome! I hope it serves you well haha. Let us know how it goes for you

@thecntrlfreak1347 Torn between your version and the one with murktide. So far I'm thinking the one with goyfs are more consistent

That hefty lad you say? Trash bag sponsorship incoming.

It got ruined.

These are straight facts. And mana tithe hits anything, not just non creature, so mana tithe > stubborn denial.

I really appreciate that, and that's awesome that you were able to rip one right off the bat. I think nethergoyf has been fantastic for me, but Tamiyo has been the absolute most fun card to rock since the MH3 release.

Sometimes the bad guys get lucky but the good guys get luckier.

Nothing wrong with adding a murktide or two. Certainly helps to get over Springheart Nantuko tokens and things like that.

@@thecntrlfreak1347 do you think Murktide would conflict with Goyf at all?

@@maxfawcett143 It does if you're trying to turbo out a murktide. If you play a little bit slower, the impact is a lot less noticeable.

Definitely yes to break the ice and no swamp over the harbinger, I think that's completely fine. For the frog question, I'm not completely sold on frog, so I can't directly recommend it, but I know others who swear by it so I don't think it would be a bad choice regardless.

Thanks so much! I really appreciate that! Rakdos is a blast if you're all about that Gotta Go Fast mentality, so good choice there.

It was, crazy to see that x-2 went all the way down to top 33. I've barely even looked at the AC stuff, but that could be an interesting idea. It's one sided, right? So they have to pay to attack you but you don't have to pay to attack them?

@@thecntrlfreak1347 Yep one sided, so I'm thinking Boros and other "wide" decks get restricted to attacking with just a couple creatures that you can interact with before damage. Could be too soft to Static Prison tho

@@julienrodriguez4439 Interesting choice. Definitely starts the hyper aggressive starts if you can make them choose between advancing the board and attacking.

I have, but the issue I'm running in to is it stops one specific thing, but often doesn't do anything against the rest of the deck. And if I'm not regularly losing to that one thing, it's difficult to justify the spot.

@@thecntrlfreak1347 so you think Spellbomb is better because it can cantrip? Or is there another reason I'm not seeing?

@@maxfawcett143 Pretty much just the cantrip, yeah. So if they don't see the thing you're trying to stop, it can replace itself.

@@thecntrlfreak1347 I think I'll try Surgical in that slot then, I like how it plays with Thoughtseize and I don't like the idea of my gravehate nonboing with Drown

Thanks so much, I really appreciate that! Nihil Spellbomb does the same thing with the possible upside of replacing itself, and since we don't care about casting multiple spells every turn like prowess, the 1 mana investment isn't bad. But you're right that they do all nonbo with drown, kind of why I've considered cutting drown altogether if I want to hate out Phlage more.

I don't think decks that play harbinger are bringing it in against you, but you can get got every now and then by maindeck ones. But if you want to play harbinger yourself, then the swamp is absolutely necessary.

Nice! Once you go Tomato, you never go back.

I've really enjoyed the Shadow/Goyf/Tamiyo trio, kind of gives you a balance of early pressure, late game power, and a threat that doesn't require just turning sideways.

@@thecntrlfreak1347hmm but I feel like yea murktide is kinda bad since exiling cards from your graveyard is bad for nethergoyf. But playing tamyio and frog in my opinion is pretty good since cracking the clues and drawing cards can pump the frog and make it big really quick. And frog also draws a cards which pumps tamyio to flip. It also happened to me once that I ulti tamyio and I pumped the frog to a 15/15. So I really think you should consider playing the frog it’s really good card in the shadow deck. Cause it goes really well with tamyio. But that’s just my opinion

@@ilosthope. frog is just not good for the mana curve imo.

@@johndonovan2743 wym? Its a 2 drop. I had no problem going turn 1 tamyio turn 2 frog

I don’t think tapping out turn 2 for a creature is what I want to be doing

I appreciate it! Was great to see you were able to get a stream in tonight. Definitely takes a reasonable time commitment to grind out some leagues. I've been very impressed with force, especially since you can often just replace that card with tamiyo or close the game out before the card disadvantage really matters. Plus against things like chalice and trinisphere, it can single handedly allow you to keep playing the game.

That makes two of us haha

Go Go Power Algo

Shadowbait.

So I'm big on the 4 wraith mainly for improving the consistency of tamiyo flips early, but if you're less high on tamiyo or more just want to play the frog, then I think the swap out won't affect much.

I haven't played Mill much in recent years, but it always looks pretty fun. Dimir Shadow is definitely a blast, but I will say that it is pretty unforgiving. So if you decide to pick it up, give yourself a little time to get used to some of the play patterns and lines before you put too much pressure on yourself to win.

🤣 That's pretty hilarious. I've got AC, just takes a bit to get rolling when you have an unexpected heat wave.

I've thought about surgical in general, but not just as a phlage answer. I could see maybe using it against jeskai to hit a snapcaster target or wrath if they don't see phlage, but pretty sketchy against the boros energy decks.

I ran the deck through a league and had some pretty big issues, but that's a small sample size. I'll give it another shot at some point, but I kept finding analysis without a frog and it looked horrendous, or had a frog with only 2 or so cards in hand that I couldn't afford to throw away, so my frog was just pinging for 1 every turn. I didn't like giving my opponents so many extra draw steps.

That's a suggestion I've heard before, and it could possibly help some against nadu/boros game 1. Right now the list is really hedged towards the unfair stuff game 1 and sideboarding in to a fair plan, but you could easily cut the force from the main for a deluge if you wanted a tiny bit more balance.

Haha I wouldn't go that far. Just have to occasionally remind myself that other formats do exist.

So when I look at Dimir, I don't really think of it as a tempo deck, I think of it as a control deck with some aggressively slanted finishers. You're not trying to leverage early turn advantages with cards like lightning bolt, spell pierce, drc, or rag, you're playing actual counterspell, force of negation, fatal push, thoughtseize, and it just happens that your creatures are sized the close out the game in a short time frame. Tamiyo fits that mold of cheap cost, no more investment after she hits the board, and can ult as soon as turn 4/5, effectively ending the game. For Stalker, assuming you descend every single turn (crack a fetch, sac a bauble, cycle a wraith, or have something die), you're looking at a turn 6 kill: hitting for 2 on turn 2, 3 on 3, etc until 6 on 6 is exactly 20 damage. So Tamiyo flipping on 2 is still effectively ending the game a turn sooner, but actually ending it usually on the same turn. The big difference though is the investment. If you don't descend on any one of those turns, your clock is thrown off by a turn, if you miss multiple descents, you could be looking at an 8 or 9 turn clock, where Tamiyo just needs that initial push of just drawing cards. Plus on the downside, an unflipped tamiyo is still drawing a card a turn, where a non descended stalker is hitting for 1 or maybe saccing off to take out a 1 toughness creature (not a lot of those running around).

@@thecntrlfreak1347 oh I see, yeah makes sense. Maybe I need myself a pair of tamiyos then eventually :) I played your nulldrifter deck last week at a paper event and had a blast!

That sounds pretty sweet. I'll have to go check out what cards are available, and post a list in the discord.