Why Aren't You Getting Art Job Interviews?
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- I see a lot of junior artists expressing frustration at 'the industry' or 'artificial intelligence' for the reasons they're not getting job interviews.
I wanted to make this video to address the REAL reason why those artists aren't getting job interviews.
00:00 Introduction
02:00 The Levelling System
05:00 1. Black Shadows
06:57 Good Photography Reference
10:00 Good Examples of Shadows
12:45 2. Unsaturated Light
15:12 Good Examples of Light Saturation
18:35 3. Noise Control
22:32 Good Examples of Clean Reads
29:20 4. Your Ideas Suck
32:10 The Levelling System conclusion
35:10 A potential Alternative?
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Excellent video, Andy! 13-14 years ago portfolio that would today be 4/10 would get you a job at AAA studios, there is no other industry in which competition is so strong and you need constantly to level up your game just in order to be relevant.
yeah that's the issue. And then there's AI. A 10/10 today will be 8/10 in two years. And jeez, the shocking level of concept art in 2012 ish vs today.
This!!! I seen what some of the industry vets had in their portfolios years ago and it wouldn't fly today. For example the black shadow problems that Andy was talking about, I use to see all the time by pro artists back in the day especially in those digital painting techniques books by 3d total publishing. A junior today has to know how to paint like an old master, draw like a technical draftsmen, an industrial designer, know color theory, advanced perspective, how to photo bash, how to gather references, along with knowing programs like Z-brush, Blender, Maya, Photoshop, while having 10/10 design principles. Also don't forget you have to be able to do all this FAST.
@@galereginald12 yeah that's not an exaggeration. That's at the heart of this issue today in 2024. There are LOTS of people who can do what you've described. I saw an interview with Pablo Dominguez who's a senior level Terraform artist and was recently working alongside an 18 year old on a project. There's no point in getting into the job market any more unless you're OK with waiting years to land one job. And overall, that's a stupid plan for one's life.
This is one of the reasons I'm trying to have diversity with what I do. Every since I was small I wanted to do character designs, creatures, comic covers, selling prints at conventions, tabletop/card/book illustrations and "gasp" even fine art since I love traditional tools like acrylic paint, markers, pen and ink etc. Even then, I'm still probably going to keep a temp warehouse job on the side.@@AndyWalsh
@@galereginald12 yeah, still it would be really good to find a way to not have to do the part time job thing if poss. Just depends on how good you are and how good you're capable of being I guess. Some people don't want to push themselves. I see that all the time. Artists who've never improved in 20 years.
Hey Andy I saw a comment on another video on CZcams and wanted to get your thoughts on it. "Honestly. I feel like Feng Zhu and his school has been teaching outdated curriculum for over 5 years now. The industry of concept art has transitioned from hiring low/mid level Concept artists, to only wanting "Senior concept artists" for full-time AAA positions. What does this mean? by senior they don't really mean "senior experience", but more like extreme proficiency and knowledge in 3D software and full-on 3D rendering skill sets. The expectations on the "level of finish" they want from concept artists if you want to get hired full time, drawing and painting will not cut it anymore. You're either on the 3D train that Jama Jurabaev started, or you're gonna be stuck working for slave-level outsourcing jobs." This comment was posted on one of the Concept ink Academy videos.
Hey. Firstly, Feng Zhu has closed the concept design academy thing (last I heard anyways). Secondly, yes, pretty much most of the jobs are senior now. If you bought a restaurant, and all of a sudden there were a thousand michelin star chefs out of work who still need to take care of their starving family, would you advertise for a junior chef? finally, there's almost no job I've had where I didn't have to fight to use 3d. And I've lost more jobs through using 3d than I have done jobs that the client was happy with. If that makes sense. In other words, most clients are sick in their own mouth when you show them a 3d rough. In fact, the problem is that most new artists THINK they have to only use Blender and Kitbash so their drawing/painting skills are non-existent. These people (and I'm probably one of them to some degree) will never work in the industry.
Really good point about the photography. Hadn't thought about watching a nature documentary for better lighting reference! On your Good example of shadows: I love that picture! Their use of shadows is so good.
Yeah, decent Planet Earth style docus are awesome if you can watch in decent resolution. :)
great video ! i agree, iam looking forward for this next video about alternatives to studio work
cool man. Just seeing for myself what the realities are so I can tackle the subject with more authority :)
Being a student and hearing all these stories about layoffs and a constantly changing industry is pretty scary 😢. I’m on my final year and I’m still trying to get my head around how much I need to really push my skills to get to an acceptable level (I’m wanting to go into environment design) … it’s good to see a discussion on this ‘crash’ in the industry, and I’m glad I found this channel of yours! I’ll be studying like crazy for these last few months of my education to make sure I get my place on this career path. 😊
I'm not entirely sure how responsible it is for me to do this, but I'm trying to campaign to get everyone to move away from the job-seeking paradigm because the games industry is so uttery, utterly f**ked. In 2024 the layoffs are still continuing and eclipsing forecasted numbers. And it's not for benign reasons like 'the economy', it's because the guys at the top are playing monopoly and the fallout is us. It's very deliberate. So if I were you, I'd study social media like it was a fine science. I'm going to be releasing videos on this as soon as I can.
This might be location specific but here in India atleast , companies are willing to give you a shot with an art test if they THINK you have 6/10 skill for the job thats apparent in your portfolio . But even if you get through the test, the real elephant in the room is the lack of ' experience ' for the job you applied for. Even if it says open to entry levels. They take those experience digits VERY seriously as opposed to skill .
So sometimes some HR's really dont have a clue if the work fits. Usually it ends up with my time being wasted as i attempt the test and eventually get silently rejected.
If only we received XP points for these tests irl as we do in games haha . But keep these videos coming , im excited for the goodies i'm gonna receive in the next one . Cheers !
Thanks Sai. I might be inclined to disagree on the experience part. It's all too easy to hand over a sub-par portfolio/art test and then put it down to some OTHER factor than the quality of the work itself. And I don't want to sound harsh of course, but that is often the case. In my opinion/experience if the work is good, nothing else matters. Unless the work is equal, in which case naturally, the guy with more experience has the edge. I feel like it's the safest position to just assume that someone with more art-power got the job.
I'd like to see a video / discussion where you talk about why you think you're at the level you're at, and/or why some other artist (ideally higher up, like 10/10) is where they're at. Like putting your painting next to theirs, that kind of thing.
Also what do you think of 'working with AI'? I've tried using AI to learn from it, as opposed to taking credit for it. I can accept that it often produces stuff that's visually incredible, often better than what a lot of us human artists can do. So why not at least learn from it?
I was thinking about doing that (the score comparison thing) but man, it is tricky. I'd be being the judge on a somewhat subjective, somewhat objective thing. Even if I said: so this artist is an 8 and this artist is a 9, then I'm putting my head in a noose for those artists and people who know them to be like: who does this guy think he is!? Kinda thing. Maybe the only way to do it is to rank my art on the scale and maybe rank one other artist against themselves over time or something.
As for AI, man it used to be very useful in the Disco Diffusion days. That was one tool I could get behind. It would show you steps along the way to the finished painting! So many times I would be inspired by looking at the difference between the middle steps and the final steps. And I don't even think those were trained on other artists' work (although not sure). The problem with current text prompts are that you have almost no control over the outcome. Better off learning from what's real. I've even tried it to generate ideas and it just doesn't comprehend what you're trying to describe. So I can find 10x as many relevant results from Pinterest.
@@AndyWalshMaybe break it down across skills, rather than artists. Level 1 pieces have these kinds of skills, level 2 pieces have that kind of skills, level 3 pieces etc etc. and frame it as discussing the pieces themselves, rather than the artists - as we all know that not every piece we produce is the same level anyway.
Cool video. Regarding the piece at 19:45 and noise: I tend to see pieces like this occasionally, and I am wondering whether it is maybe serving a specific sort of need within the concept production pipeline? Perhaps trying to showcase every single element within the environment and how it can act within the game, really serving more as information rather than pleasant viewing? I like to give the benefit of the doubt to the pros regarding stuff like this, because I can't really see them making a piece like that unconsciously, but I really don't know. :)
yeah I'm putting this one down to poor art direction to be honest. The artist likely put it in his portfolio to showcase the client vs the art. I often have to refrain from showing client work as whoever I'm interfacing with, the art lead or (more often than not) someone who isn't a traind artist, will usually completely destroy a piece by adding thing after thing after thing with no consideration for the final presentation. Because really, the content is often king vs the presentation of it.
Hi, i do get what you're saying and know I am not there yet in terms of ability but I am vocal anyways. I tried and I am doing what I can but I am not as talented as others, my stamina isn't good enough etc. But I am still working on skills too.
So anyways, I am mainly being vocal because the people who are good enough and get jobs are sometimes afraid to, and I have been seeing that in various ways for many years now. So I think it leaves people who aren't getting the jobs to be vocal and protesty sometimes. And for me at least, it's not from a lack of self awareness, I don't think? But because, I think there are still legitimate problems and there were even before this major layoff.
ok. So what do you mean by vocal exactly? Speaking out against the system kinda thing?
Keep pushing that stamina. Stamina is fuelled by progress/results.
Hey, thank you so much for your feedback and the tips.
I am the guy of the min 6:10 image, I totally agree with you, watching at it now it looks so bad. Not only the lighting, I see something wrong with the composition, the integration of the photos with the brushwork and the carriage looks quite bad too. A piece like this was and still is above my skill level. I definetly need to work more on my color and light and all the fundamentals. This is why I will start changing my portfolio from this illustration/keyframe type of works to more humble concept art projects, like props, linework building designs with flat colors, and this kind of things, wich I also like to do.
Regards.
oh hey buddy, well this is good though. It's really good to look at your work and feel gross inside, because that grossness is the feeling of taste levelling up, and that is one of the most straightforward and easy to comprehend ways to improve vs the more abstract concepts. To get out of the sub-5 levels you need to accrue many of these gross feelings until they guide you through your painting and then you'll be in less uncertainty as to whether something will work on not. So my suggestion is to do as many pieces as possible and figure out how to dislike pretty much all of them.
I mean one way to look at it is, someone who is working at a 7-8 level will pretty much dislike or well, not really enjoy everything/anything that is a 4 and below. Maybe even higher than that. So to really hit those high levels, it's kinda expected that you'll dislike damn near all your shit! :D
Weirdly though, what THEN happens is, you learn to dislike all your shit, to the point where it's actually good, and people start telling you it's good, and you're like.... What?? Pfff, what do you know.
@@AndyWalsh In fact I dislike most of the work that I have in my portfolio. Sometimes I think about putting a bunch of hours more on some pieces, but I prefer to keep studying and keep doing more. I deleted what I though are the worst pieces and in some months when I have the portfolio that I want, I will delete most of what is left.
For the moment I will stop focusing on this kind of illustration/keyframe work till I have the skill and focus on easier things.
@@Patxi__ I reckon it's maybe good to notice when you're on a piece if it's not working and throw it in the bin. This is hardcore though. I heard that Eytan apparently has the balls to do this. Get 3/4 of the way through a piece and just realise that you should have done something different right at the start. So take the lesson and move on vs polishing a turd and uploading it kinda thing :)
@@AndyWalsh Yes, is a bit sad to throw a piece to the garbage when you have been working on it for some hours or even days. I have hundreds of pieces that I didn't finish, or that are just studies or sketches, and dozens of pieces that I finished, uploaded and deleted after some time :D I think we all have. I will definetly be way more selective with the things that I put on my portfolio, many times I put works that I know I can do better, or that I didn't put enough time and effort into.
Im thinking im going to start to tattoo
y'know, at least every place near me... You gotta book your tattoo like a month in advance! So those guys are ALWAYS busy. Best of luck!
Not my first option but...@@AndyWalsh
Can you list the artists at 31:16? Looks like some really awesome work I want to check out. Thanks for these videos!
that be Jamie Jones. He's one of the very very best.
@@AndyWalsh you mentioned him in the video. Rang half a bell but seeing his work is something else. The mastery of light combined with those subtle color vibrations are something to aspire to.
@@tripplejaz ya he is a God. I wish he had some kind of course!
I would love it if someone (professional) made a chart of level 1 through 10 with example images. It’s so hard to grade yourself
It really shouldn't be hard. If you start at the top and work your way back. I'm between a 6-7 in my opinion (someone else might see me as a 5, someone else might see some of my work as an 8 but that really doesn't leave much room to be too much better). Craig Mullins and Jamie Jones are in the 10s, although for Craig, I haven't seen him design much, he's more of a fine artist. Florent Lebrun and the One Pixel Brush guys are up in the 8/9 area. Chase Stone, another 10. So now I've given you an idea of the 6-10 region. You can figure out where you are from there pretty much.
@@AndyWalshI see. Thank you so much for giving some examples. I guess I am having a hard time because even though other people tell me my stuff is good enough to work professionally, I still see a lot of mistakes in my own work. Are the any character concept artist you think are worth comparing yourself to? I mostly focus on that and not so much environments, so my character drawings are probably a lot better than my environments
love your videos. Keep it up!
@@sonder2874 Ah right, sorry that's not much use to you if I'm showing enviro examples to a character artist. Send me your work and I'll check it out. Obviously Anthony Jones is really solid. Not even because he has the best designs, but because he can just come up with a unique design in an hour while talking. Effortless.
OK, so we got Michael Kutsche, Again Chase Stone, Mingchen Shen, Oleg Vdovenko aka Chuvabak, Ryan Lang, Greg Danton (can do everything), Johann Schepacz, Piotr Krezelewski has some nice character design work.
But I would be careful about getting into character design. That'll be the first job to get eaten by AI. In two-three years time that will likely be a done deal and it can easily take more than that to get good at character design.
@@AndyWalsh thank you so much for naming so many artists! I didn’t know a lot of them (shamefully perhaps).
And thank you so much for offering to look at my portfolio. Would it be okay if I send you some recent work via instagram dm? I don’t have an ArtStation and most of the work I have posted on that instagram account is pretty old. (I have just been working on my own stuff and figured I’d only post my work on ArtStation when I’m good enough for a job, maybe that’s the wrong mindset, not sure.)
Regarding AI: yeah I am aware of this and it’s really sad… I guess I just love it so much that I still want to experience working as a character designer even if it’s only for a few years.
@@sonder2874 yeah that's fair regarding wanting to just get a taste for it. I respect the not wanting to post to ArtStation. It's a double edged sword really. You need followers and likes there, and you have to build up. But if you're posting really amateur work there... It's kinda pointless. So just get good fast!
Sure DM me on insta or fb :)
Did you watch the video of noam chomsky discussing AI?
yeah, I didn't get much out of it to be honest.
Well I still saw a lot of art school does not teach what your industry requested to. Which is a weird thing, the graduates does not able to acheive what the company wanted to
yeah I think I've heard that too from time to time. But these days you have lots of proper industry art schools like Focal Point, Brainstorm, Feng Zhu etc. So traditional schools need to make way for those.
@@AndyWalsh oh, Feng Zhu had closed already actually last year in Singapore
@@Bivanqw really?? Any idea why? I have been thinking actually that I reckon a lot of the big schools will be closing soon as people slowly realise there's no future. I actually have to do a talk to a well known art school this month and don't know what to tell them. These kids will have spent a lot of money and have a lot of hopes/dreams.
@@AndyWalsh I was working in Singapore and heard of the closing of FZD, it is also talked by original FZD students in reddit post too. But the real reason of closing is not disclosed though sir. So far some of the art lecturers like Kingston originally from FZD is working in MAGES art school institute currently.
I agree that is does not bring future too. You are the only artist that talk truth and not the sweet talk " hardwork paids off" kind, and hope for more.
The longer i work, the more i found out art industry have people sugar coating dreaming about easy jobs and unrealistic dreams compare to other industry. They need to know the work industry truth too.
@@Bivanqw yeah a few people have said that, regarding the sugar coating. I'm currently working hard to find out if there's room for artists to make a living outside the industry. If it is a path, it's a path that requires a LOT of work and self-development but at least it has a smooth progression of earning more as time goes on vs the industry which is all or nothing. Video or VIDEOS incoming.
Don't forget about the unpaid art tests that one has to complete as well. Its near impossible to break into the industry.
yeah, well it's weird. Those disappear for senior positions (although I was recently hit up by a recruiter who mentioned an art test for a senior position and I just said that I won't be doing that. Never heard from him after that). But I would say it can be necessary. For example, I was given an art test once when I was at junior level and I failed it horribly, so they gave me a second chance and I failed that horribly. Hence it was a very useful test for them!
I did one unpaid art test for a casino games company. I spent 1 week on it. I did not get the job.
I'm never doing an unpaid art test ever again. My portfolio should say plenty about my work, and if it doesn't, that's my fault.
So im fuck im on 5/10....
Are you sure? and if so, that's pretty good, only a couple levels away from potential employment?
@@AndyWalsh thank, you know it hard beaucause we feel so alone in this job, and my only teacher is master and so the level it so hard.
I work to become a spécifique environnement artits. And you work is great, I feel inspired and that Will be my objectif to have a work to présent like you (sorry for my english thank to you and your work and i'm no go to copy your dont wory xD)
I never really focused on noise so that was interesting.. and the idea that the concept just sucks haha great video
ha, thanks Claire, glad I could help!