Disney villains are perceived to be gay? I was a Disney animation artist back in the late 80s/ 90s. Most of the lead animators for our villains were LGBTQ+ themselves, such as Ruben Aquino- Ursula (based on Divine), and Andreas Deja- Gaston, Jafar, and Scar.
I had no idea the person who animated Ursula was queer! That makes me really happy for a reason I cant place, Ursula is already a queer icon and it's awesome to know he animator was too
queerbaiting in loki: it is. he is queer, they told us that explicitly, and even tho i am sad that mobius x loki isnt canon, and the studio told us he was queer to get more audience, and then set him up with the fem presenting person
I think Loki deserved a happier ending. But that doesn't change how good the rest of season 2 was. And being ace, myself, I don't need to see a kiss on screen, or a roll in the bedsheets to be happy. In my eyes, Loki and Mobius love each other. It's just sad they have to be a part. And everyone knows, in Marvel, if we don't have a body, they could still be alive (even then, with the multiverse open, that rule is now gone.). And if they are alive, it's still possible for them. Tom Hiddleston said "there will be more Loki". And later he said he might come back, as long as someone writes the check. (Not a direct quote) So it's still possible we were never queer baited in any way. Maybe it might all work out.
As someone who studies the Norse myths and specifically their LGBTQ aspects, the biggest let down of the MCU is that Odin isn't a bisexual who dresses in drag and does drugs to see visions of the future while preaching about kindness for the disabled like his mythological counterpart. Also why does he dress so kingly Odin was the inspiration for Gandalf and was always disguising himself to learn stuff because of how nerdy he is.
norse mythos is so weird in marvel, both the comics and the movies treat them like...just a guy? like Loki is also never really Loki, God of Mischief but Loki - a smirking Tom Hiddleston, with dyed black hair. And nothing against Tom, I think there isn't anyone that could pull off the type of charm that Loki has. But also, Loki is a shapeshifter? Why are they always just another guy. There are so many stories that could show off their wit and charm but they're undercut by the execs needing Tom to play the role and be marketable ig. Maybe I'm just mad we never got Tom voicing Loki as a horse xD
Firstly, just want to say fantastic video, loved all the discussion points and ideas you presented here. Now, I feel very strongly and have spent months discussing this show and the queer undertones on Tumblr (@loki-us) so… here goes my rant lmao ON LOKI’s QUEERBAITING: In my opinion, confirming Loki as genderfluid and bi was total queerbaiting because if they hadn’t confirmed it, you would have no idea by just watching the show. It doesn’t impact his character or interactions with other people at all. I believe in order to have positive queer rep, the fact that the character is queer has to be apparent in the journey or behavior of the character besides just stating it out loud and never addressing again. Aka If you can make the character not queer by just censoring/removing one scene, I don’t consider it true queer rep, that is what I consider to be queerbaiting, which is exactly what happened with Loki. They say he’s bi, then immediately smash him into a cringy ship with the fem presenting person (himself) bc Loki (man) plus Sylvie (woman) must lead to romance as that’s often the only form of attraction allowed in Hollywood (especially Disney). They also say he’s genderfluid, but the Tom Hiddleston Loki never shows any fluidity in gender. He is shown in a female form like once throughout the entire franchise but he’s never shown to have any actual fluidity in gender identity, never discussed, never impacts his character at all. Out of every Loki variant we see, Sylvie is the ONLY fem presenting and also never shows any fluidity in gender either. They threw in a woman just for the token rep but we never see any fluidity within a single Loki variant. Is there anything there for a gender fluid person to see + relate to regarding gender identity specifically? I would imagine not much. Loki’s “queer rep” is completely tokenized and Disney would never show any more than that bc then it would be too hard to remove for views/business ($$$) in more conservative countries. ON LOKIUS: I think Disney would never actually make Lokius canon either despite it clearly making much more sense from the storyline of the show and from Loki and Mobius having much more chemistry, trust, affection, and healthy interactions than Loki and Sylvie ever did. I loved your interpretation of the finale and completely agree with everything you said about it !!! In s2, Sylvie literally confirms Loki is the last person she ever wanted to see again. She doesn’t like Loki, she doesn’t care about Loki, she wants nothing to do with anyone and frolics off to be completely by herself at the end of the show while Mobius is left devastated and alone after Loki leaves. He’s lost his purpose and the one place he used to call home. Loki spends HUNDREDS OF YEARS in 2x6 trying to save the tva JUST FOR MOBIUS/his other friends because at that point they all thought the multiverse would survive without the tva. There’s just SO much more evidence to support Lokius and it honestly baffles me how anyone ships Sylki because the attraction from both sides (but mainly Sylvie) is just NOT there AT ALL. But Disney is Disney and so a manipulative/toxic sylki kiss and an aborted confession from Loki to Mobius in 2x1 is all we got. ON MAKING QUEER SHIPS CANON: I really like your points at the end of the video on why do we actually need validation. I completely agree that the show is still meaningful and gave us strong feelings regardless. But I still think having explicit queer characters and showing how their queerness shapes them is so important to the queer community. And just normalizing that queer people exist and can be overtly queer and that’s okay. To show the world that queer people are important and valued even in big media like Loki/Marvel. Otherwise it’s like “yes queer stories are important but only if they’re presented in a very ambiguous/unobtrusive way so it’s palatable to the general public.” It’s like they’re making us do all the work to find meaning and representation instead of giving us a truly positive example of queerness for EVERYONE to see and learn from. It’s just another way to make queer people feel left out and yes, I still enjoyed the show immensely and the meaning that can be found in it, but I can’t help but mourn how much more there could have been for us as queer people. FINAL THOUGHTS: Overall fantastic video, loved hearing your ideas, this was a joy to watch and I always appreciate how much effort/research you put into your videos--will have to check out the sources you mentioned! (on that note: Collider is well known for taking quotes out of context and most of their journalists are strong sylki shippers so I’ve noticed their content is often very skewed a certain way lol). Anyway thanks again for your work on this and if anyone actually got to the end of this rant, thank you sincerely for reading XD
Hi!! I got to the end of the rant ;D Im glad you enjoyed the video! I definitely agree with you on making queer ships canon. It's really important to have good queer rep, especially when theres so little of it out there. But speaking from my own experience, after i get queerbaited, no matter how much i shit on the show and boycott it, i still feel bad afterwards. As I've said in the video, I guess this is just a way to reclaim that power that was taken from you. If it makes anyone feel better to ignore the canon, then i think they should go for it. Shitty creators dont get to have their work viewed as they want it to be viewed :D Thank you so so much for this comment, I really enjoyed your take on this.
@@zemantler that is so valid! Also I agree, I think being hateful of a show can only make you feel worse about it. I truly have so much love for this show and everything Loki gave us, I am saddened by what could have been but Loki and Mobius gave us so much richness and affection and feelings on screen, regardless if it’s canonically romantic, and I’ve found so much fulfillment from that and from fan discussions/content/art/fiction as well. I really do like the idea of reclaiming that and finding community with other queer fans who can recognize the subtext and validate that empowering mindset. This is definitely something I’ll remember if I’m feeling disappointed or upset about queer rep being less than ideal, I suppose we gain nothing by being upset and can at least find some peace and comfort in what we have. I like your note about how we view things too; since art means different things to everyone, maybe the way we interpret it is at least as (or maybe even more) important than what the writers intended 👀 the most annoying part for me is other fans that don’t support the queer ships and are constantly picking fights and invalidating us if it’s not strictly “canon.” The discourse on social media can definitely get pretty toxic sometimes but I suppose the opinions of those people are worth the least and we can reclaim that power by trying to ignore them. Thanks so much for reading, I’m glad you got something out of my ramblings and thanks for your comment and insights!!
yeah, comparing bbc sherlock to loki shows that it wasnt that much of a queerbait. as a queer person myself i have felt like lokius were platonic, and i personally did not felt queerbaited but maybe it was because i really didnt actually care much about either sylki nor lokius loll but thats on me, whilst in sherlock the amount of queerbait is sick and twisted . also everyone go watch good omens i love those little queers (and s3 was announced hehe)
The thing I hated most about this was how the only time Loki’s sexuality was ever alluded to was a blink it and you miss it line. I know that several people (including my parents) didn’t even understand that little bit of dialogue as a coming out, they just brushed right past it. And maybe if I wasn’t desperately looking for representation, I would have missed it too. And once the first moment of joy was over, I immediately feared they would never bring it up again. It just feels like Marvel wants to appease queer fans while also keeping conservative fans happy, so they basically “hid” Loki’s sexuality so only a certain demographic would notice. Which also conveniently means that since it’s just dialogue, they can just dub something else over it for countries which don’t allow queerness in media (remember that big deal Disney made about the half a second kiss between two unknown female characters in Star Wars which they cut out in several countries so they could still make big money there). The whole thing is just infuriating. Disney wants to have it both ways, which makes neither side happy, but still makes them money. It’s capitalism at its finest. And to conclude, yes, it’s definitely queerbaiting because they brought it up for no other reason than to say “look at us, we’re so progressive, now be happy with what you got and don’t ask for more because we won’t give it to you” Thank you for this video. I’ve talked about this topic with my friend a few times (she doesn’t watch marvel content so it was a very one-sided discussion), but seeing other people notice it and talk about it too somehow makes my perception feel more valid.
That is Disney for you Putting some small breadcrumbs for people that will know what it means but still getting conservative money because they don't know that those blink and you will miss it moments are queer representation
I don't think the heartstopper was "watered down for the masses." It was based on a webcomic that was made by a queer creator. It is not overly sexual because it was created by an ace creator. It was also targeting a younger audience.
I was firmly on the Lokius ship right from the beginning and I'm actually okay that they weren't canon by the end, mainly because I feel that the focus of the Loki series was for him to have the opportunity to heal his relationship with himself. Tom Hiddleston stated at one point that in order to have a healthy relationship with someone else, you first have to have a healthy relationship with yourself and that's kind of what this show was about. The fact that the show left both Loki and Mobius alone and the way they kept the link between them with that last line "let time pass" makes me think their story isn't finished in the MCU. I'm not holding my breath that they'll be canon in the future, but I am hopeful.
I could not get through loki S2, the marvel-fatigue was too strong. But I still feel iffy about the whole Loki genderqueer thing in S1, so I'm still loving the discussion
The fan speculation about characters' sexual orientation in shipping, is due to a lack of same-sex kissing and bedroom scenes, because of the old Hays Code censorship and the resulting tradition followed by later directors and writers, who grew up watching old movies made under it.
About Sherlock I’m autistic and queer when they said he’s not autistic and autistic people are like zombies i was so disappointed. I watched it when i was 14 and just figured my sexuality and not diagnosed as autistic yet, and after watching it I was so disappointed with so many things but really didn’t know what cus I was just figuring out how life is and now I’m just figured out that they were queer baiting and are just so ableist I’m really fing sad. If that makes sense. I’m just kinda saying that I feel like they literally mocked my existence.
you brought up a lot of my own qualms when the show was first released, and it's been some time since i've last given it much thought, so excuse the long comment while i try to put it into words i think the only reason the show got made to cash in on Tom's popularity with women, so the only reason they ever had a romantic subplot was to satisfy that assumed demand. in the movies, hes relegated as thor's naughty younger brother and not a terrifying force of mischief, and instead of doing a character study and exploring his strengths outside of his brother's influence, they wrote a shitty romcom that was literally selfcest... now its hilarious [and makes sense for his character] that loki would immediately try to literally fuck himself, and they're cowards for not having Tom in the greenscreen making out with an invisible clone. HOWEVER it is stupid and lacks a driving force, the timeline cops were underdeveloped, mobius was a wasted character, and the ending made zero sense in the context of the universe [not that any multidimentional story could ever make sense, its like space magic ig] the best thing to come out of this show is the ship! yes! mobius deserves better than a narcissistic asshole for a partner, but hey at least loki can hook up with someone other than himself or his brother. the animation was also beautiful, but i think with a budget that comes from d*sney it'd be a shock if they underfunded the cgi department. i do think the writing was bad bc most of the decisions were made by higher-ups or dictated by test audience reviews, instead of people who are familiar with the comics. but at this point, the MCU cannot and will never try to recreate good stories. we see that clearly written out in the way they trashed a perfectly good opportunity to bring new life and depth to an already beloved character [loki, still talking about loki]
as you were talking about if they made mobius a girl he and Loki would have likely gotten together, my mind immediately went to “what if they were lesbiansssss” I need a fem presenting Loki getting with a fem mobius nowww also no I’m not a lesbian in a straight trench coat what would make you say that?? /j /sar
Queer ppl can also make shitty queer media. While i think season 1 was harmless fluff, season 2 introduced so many important topics and then half assed them, like Charlies s/h or Darcy's terrible home conditions. I also see their asexual representation as genuinely harmful. I would never shit on a queer show for not being my cup of tea, but i think we deserve better representation than this. Of course, these are all my opinions. If you found comfort in heartstopper, thats great.
@@zemantler no one has to support a show just because of inclusion. it's just jarring that after 20+ minutes of talking about how finding queer representation in a friendship in a marvel disney property is valid (which it is), you derisively called an explicitly queer work by a member of the community "mainstream". bag on heartstopper all you want, but the juxtaposition was weird.
Disney villains are perceived to be gay? I was a Disney animation artist back in the late 80s/ 90s. Most of the lead animators for our villains were LGBTQ+ themselves, such as Ruben Aquino- Ursula (based on Divine), and Andreas Deja- Gaston, Jafar, and Scar.
I had no idea the person who animated Ursula was queer! That makes me really happy for a reason I cant place, Ursula is already a queer icon and it's awesome to know he animator was too
queerbaiting in loki: it is. he is queer, they told us that explicitly, and even tho i am sad that mobius x loki isnt canon, and the studio told us he was queer to get more audience, and then set him up with the fem presenting person
I think Loki deserved a happier ending. But that doesn't change how good the rest of season 2 was. And being ace, myself, I don't need to see a kiss on screen, or a roll in the bedsheets to be happy. In my eyes, Loki and Mobius love each other. It's just sad they have to be a part. And everyone knows, in Marvel, if we don't have a body, they could still be alive (even then, with the multiverse open, that rule is now gone.). And if they are alive, it's still possible for them. Tom Hiddleston said "there will be more Loki". And later he said he might come back, as long as someone writes the check. (Not a direct quote) So it's still possible we were never queer baited in any way. Maybe it might all work out.
As someone who studies the Norse myths and specifically their LGBTQ aspects, the biggest let down of the MCU is that Odin isn't a bisexual who dresses in drag and does drugs to see visions of the future while preaching about kindness for the disabled like his mythological counterpart. Also why does he dress so kingly Odin was the inspiration for Gandalf and was always disguising himself to learn stuff because of how nerdy he is.
norse mythos is so weird in marvel, both the comics and the movies treat them like...just a guy? like Loki is also never really Loki, God of Mischief but Loki - a smirking Tom Hiddleston, with dyed black hair. And nothing against Tom, I think there isn't anyone that could pull off the type of charm that Loki has. But also, Loki is a shapeshifter? Why are they always just another guy. There are so many stories that could show off their wit and charm but they're undercut by the execs needing Tom to play the role and be marketable ig. Maybe I'm just mad we never got Tom voicing Loki as a horse xD
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR LOKI VIDEO LIKE IT'STHE MESSIAH
IM SO GLAD HAHA Ive been meaning to make it since like november :']
Still disappointed in Loki/Mobius not being canon.
Im obsessed with your scott pilgrim poster😍
Jumpscare warning lol
Love this surprise video
Keep doing what you're doing
Lokius is canon, can't nobody tell me nothing 😆
Thanks! Will do!
Firstly, just want to say fantastic video, loved all the discussion points and ideas you presented here. Now, I feel very strongly and have spent months discussing this show and the queer undertones on Tumblr (@loki-us) so… here goes my rant lmao
ON LOKI’s QUEERBAITING:
In my opinion, confirming Loki as genderfluid and bi was total queerbaiting because if they hadn’t confirmed it, you would have no idea by just watching the show. It doesn’t impact his character or interactions with other people at all. I believe in order to have positive queer rep, the fact that the character is queer has to be apparent in the journey or behavior of the character besides just stating it out loud and never addressing again. Aka If you can make the character not queer by just censoring/removing one scene, I don’t consider it true queer rep, that is what I consider to be queerbaiting, which is exactly what happened with Loki. They say he’s bi, then immediately smash him into a cringy ship with the fem presenting person (himself) bc Loki (man) plus Sylvie (woman) must lead to romance as that’s often the only form of attraction allowed in Hollywood (especially Disney). They also say he’s genderfluid, but the Tom Hiddleston Loki never shows any fluidity in gender. He is shown in a female form like once throughout the entire franchise but he’s never shown to have any actual fluidity in gender identity, never discussed, never impacts his character at all. Out of every Loki variant we see, Sylvie is the ONLY fem presenting and also never shows any fluidity in gender either. They threw in a woman just for the token rep but we never see any fluidity within a single Loki variant. Is there anything there for a gender fluid person to see + relate to regarding gender identity specifically? I would imagine not much. Loki’s “queer rep” is completely tokenized and Disney would never show any more than that bc then it would be too hard to remove for views/business ($$$) in more conservative countries.
ON LOKIUS:
I think Disney would never actually make Lokius canon either despite it clearly making much more sense from the storyline of the show and from Loki and Mobius having much more chemistry, trust, affection, and healthy interactions than Loki and Sylvie ever did. I loved your interpretation of the finale and completely agree with everything you said about it !!! In s2, Sylvie literally confirms Loki is the last person she ever wanted to see again. She doesn’t like Loki, she doesn’t care about Loki, she wants nothing to do with anyone and frolics off to be completely by herself at the end of the show while Mobius is left devastated and alone after Loki leaves. He’s lost his purpose and the one place he used to call home. Loki spends HUNDREDS OF YEARS in 2x6 trying to save the tva JUST FOR MOBIUS/his other friends because at that point they all thought the multiverse would survive without the tva. There’s just SO much more evidence to support Lokius and it honestly baffles me how anyone ships Sylki because the attraction from both sides (but mainly Sylvie) is just NOT there AT ALL. But Disney is Disney and so a manipulative/toxic sylki kiss and an aborted confession from Loki to Mobius in 2x1 is all we got.
ON MAKING QUEER SHIPS CANON:
I really like your points at the end of the video on why do we actually need validation. I completely agree that the show is still meaningful and gave us strong feelings regardless. But I still think having explicit queer characters and showing how their queerness shapes them is so important to the queer community. And just normalizing that queer people exist and can be overtly queer and that’s okay. To show the world that queer people are important and valued even in big media like Loki/Marvel. Otherwise it’s like “yes queer stories are important but only if they’re presented in a very ambiguous/unobtrusive way so it’s palatable to the general public.” It’s like they’re making us do all the work to find meaning and representation instead of giving us a truly positive example of queerness for EVERYONE to see and learn from. It’s just another way to make queer people feel left out and yes, I still enjoyed the show immensely and the meaning that can be found in it, but I can’t help but mourn how much more there could have been for us as queer people.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
Overall fantastic video, loved hearing your ideas, this was a joy to watch and I always appreciate how much effort/research you put into your videos--will have to check out the sources you mentioned! (on that note: Collider is well known for taking quotes out of context and most of their journalists are strong sylki shippers so I’ve noticed their content is often very skewed a certain way lol). Anyway thanks again for your work on this and if anyone actually got to the end of this rant, thank you sincerely for reading XD
Hi!! I got to the end of the rant ;D Im glad you enjoyed the video! I definitely agree with you on making queer ships canon. It's really important to have good queer rep, especially when theres so little of it out there. But speaking from my own experience, after i get queerbaited, no matter how much i shit on the show and boycott it, i still feel bad afterwards. As I've said in the video, I guess this is just a way to reclaim that power that was taken from you. If it makes anyone feel better to ignore the canon, then i think they should go for it. Shitty creators dont get to have their work viewed as they want it to be viewed :D Thank you so so much for this comment, I really enjoyed your take on this.
@@zemantler that is so valid! Also I agree, I think being hateful of a show can only make you feel worse about it. I truly have so much love for this show and everything Loki gave us, I am saddened by what could have been but Loki and Mobius gave us so much richness and affection and feelings on screen, regardless if it’s canonically romantic, and I’ve found so much fulfillment from that and from fan discussions/content/art/fiction as well. I really do like the idea of reclaiming that and finding community with other queer fans who can recognize the subtext and validate that empowering mindset. This is definitely something I’ll remember if I’m feeling disappointed or upset about queer rep being less than ideal, I suppose we gain nothing by being upset and can at least find some peace and comfort in what we have. I like your note about how we view things too; since art means different things to everyone, maybe the way we interpret it is at least as (or maybe even more) important than what the writers intended 👀 the most annoying part for me is other fans that don’t support the queer ships and are constantly picking fights and invalidating us if it’s not strictly “canon.” The discourse on social media can definitely get pretty toxic sometimes but I suppose the opinions of those people are worth the least and we can reclaim that power by trying to ignore them.
Thanks so much for reading, I’m glad you got something out of my ramblings and thanks for your comment and insights!!
yeah, comparing bbc sherlock to loki shows that it wasnt that much of a queerbait. as a queer person myself i have felt like lokius were platonic, and i personally did not felt queerbaited but maybe it was because i really didnt actually care much about either sylki nor lokius loll but thats on me, whilst in sherlock the amount of queerbait is sick and twisted . also everyone go watch good omens i love those little queers (and s3 was announced hehe)
how is this channel so small? definitely see it blowing up in no time👍
The thing I hated most about this was how the only time Loki’s sexuality was ever alluded to was a blink it and you miss it line. I know that several people (including my parents) didn’t even understand that little bit of dialogue as a coming out, they just brushed right past it. And maybe if I wasn’t desperately looking for representation, I would have missed it too. And once the first moment of joy was over, I immediately feared they would never bring it up again.
It just feels like Marvel wants to appease queer fans while also keeping conservative fans happy, so they basically “hid” Loki’s sexuality so only a certain demographic would notice. Which also conveniently means that since it’s just dialogue, they can just dub something else over it for countries which don’t allow queerness in media (remember that big deal Disney made about the half a second kiss between two unknown female characters in Star Wars which they cut out in several countries so they could still make big money there).
The whole thing is just infuriating. Disney wants to have it both ways, which makes neither side happy, but still makes them money. It’s capitalism at its finest. And to conclude, yes, it’s definitely queerbaiting because they brought it up for no other reason than to say “look at us, we’re so progressive, now be happy with what you got and don’t ask for more because we won’t give it to you”
Thank you for this video. I’ve talked about this topic with my friend a few times (she doesn’t watch marvel content so it was a very one-sided discussion), but seeing other people notice it and talk about it too somehow makes my perception feel more valid.
That is Disney for you
Putting some small breadcrumbs for people that will know what it means but still getting conservative money because they don't know that those blink and you will miss it moments are queer representation
came straight here when i saw u posted !! nice to see u again:D im gonna go watch loki season 2 ahah
Thank you! :] Hope you enjoy it! lots of ppl hate it but i personally thought it was alright. Had some great moments
I don't think the heartstopper was "watered down for the masses." It was based on a webcomic that was made by a queer creator. It is not overly sexual because it was created by an ace creator. It was also targeting a younger audience.
And the characters are literal teenagers!!
im so glad you posted again omg!!
YOURE BACK!!!
I was firmly on the Lokius ship right from the beginning and I'm actually okay that they weren't canon by the end, mainly because I feel that the focus of the Loki series was for him to have the opportunity to heal his relationship with himself. Tom Hiddleston stated at one point that in order to have a healthy relationship with someone else, you first have to have a healthy relationship with yourself and that's kind of what this show was about.
The fact that the show left both Loki and Mobius alone and the way they kept the link between them with that last line "let time pass" makes me think their story isn't finished in the MCU.
I'm not holding my breath that they'll be canon in the future, but I am hopeful.
I MISSED YOUR VIDEOS SO MUCHH!!!
Thank you!!! :D I missed making them too. I just got really busy with stuff and didnt really have much time for youtube lol
I could not get through loki S2, the marvel-fatigue was too strong. But I still feel iffy about the whole Loki genderqueer thing in S1, so I'm still loving the discussion
Great video!
In love with the Paul Dano collage.
thats how you know youre in the right place
Babe wake up new zemantler video just dropped!
The fan speculation about characters' sexual orientation in shipping, is due to a lack of same-sex kissing and bedroom scenes, because of the old Hays Code censorship and the resulting tradition followed by later directors and writers, who grew up watching old movies made under it.
Loki should've had a thing for Mobius, no doubt about that
About Sherlock
I’m autistic and queer when they said he’s not autistic and autistic people are like zombies i was so disappointed.
I watched it when i was 14 and just figured my sexuality and not diagnosed as autistic yet, and after watching it I was so disappointed with so many things but really didn’t know what cus I was just figuring out how life is and now I’m just figured out that they were queer baiting and are just so ableist I’m really fing sad.
If that makes sense. I’m just kinda saying that I feel like they literally mocked my existence.
you brought up a lot of my own qualms when the show was first released, and it's been some time since i've last given it much thought, so excuse the long comment while i try to put it into words
i think the only reason the show got made to cash in on Tom's popularity with women, so the only reason they ever had a romantic subplot was to satisfy that assumed demand. in the movies, hes relegated as thor's naughty younger brother and not a terrifying force of mischief, and instead of doing a character study and exploring his strengths outside of his brother's influence, they wrote a shitty romcom that was literally selfcest...
now its hilarious [and makes sense for his character] that loki would immediately try to literally fuck himself, and they're cowards for not having Tom in the greenscreen making out with an invisible clone. HOWEVER it is stupid and lacks a driving force, the timeline cops were underdeveloped, mobius was a wasted character, and the ending made zero sense in the context of the universe [not that any multidimentional story could ever make sense, its like space magic ig]
the best thing to come out of this show is the ship! yes! mobius deserves better than a narcissistic asshole for a partner, but hey at least loki can hook up with someone other than himself or his brother. the animation was also beautiful, but i think with a budget that comes from d*sney it'd be a shock if they underfunded the cgi department. i do think the writing was bad bc most of the decisions were made by higher-ups or dictated by test audience reviews, instead of people who are familiar with the comics. but at this point, the MCU cannot and will never try to recreate good stories. we see that clearly written out in the way they trashed a perfectly good opportunity to bring new life and depth to an already beloved character [loki, still talking about loki]
as you were talking about if they made mobius a girl he and Loki would have likely gotten together, my mind immediately went to “what if they were lesbiansssss” I need a fem presenting Loki getting with a fem mobius nowww
also no I’m not a lesbian in a straight trench coat what would make you say that?? /j /sar
*promo sm*
you had me until the unexpected dig at heartstopper, a queer work by a queer creator, even if it didn't speak to you personally.
Queer ppl can also make shitty queer media. While i think season 1 was harmless fluff, season 2 introduced so many important topics and then half assed them, like Charlies s/h or Darcy's terrible home conditions. I also see their asexual representation as genuinely harmful. I would never shit on a queer show for not being my cup of tea, but i think we deserve better representation than this. Of course, these are all my opinions. If you found comfort in heartstopper, thats great.
@@zemantler no one has to support a show just because of inclusion. it's just jarring that after 20+ minutes of talking about how finding queer representation in a friendship in a marvel disney property is valid (which it is), you derisively called an explicitly queer work by a member of the community "mainstream". bag on heartstopper all you want, but the juxtaposition was weird.