Hi Alec, I enjoyed your episode this morning, it's 08:31 am now. Watching & learning is terrific about SCUBA diving. Be well & hang tuff, say hi to Kevin. Bye 👍
If you watch the Sea Hunt Special; 2019 on my Sea Hunt playlist, you will see Kevin actually diving at Silver Springs. Trust me Kevin is a very real force. Alec
Well I attended the 2023 North American Ice Diving Festival and all three second stage regulators were free flowing so it makes sense that the issue was probably the first stage regulator. My IDM, octo, and Air2 all started free flowing after a few breaths (at least I had a quick disconnect to save air). It was -17 degrees Celsius or 1 degree Fahrenheit. One of the other tenders mentioned that my first stage was all frosted up. It was a great opportunity to meet like-minded folks.
Sounds like a good group of divers. I"m too old & cold for ice diving anymore but years back, I loved it. Thanks for sharing and keep on diving safe. A
It's pretty neat. I taught science for several years a long time ago. I really enjoyed seeing the sudden look of realization on the faces of students who hated science when I showed them how easy it was to understand. That's what I miss most about making youtube videos. I can't see the faces of the viewers. Alec
Wanting to find out what you was talking about about see Hunt so I watch a couple of episodes it turns out I've been watched about 30 episodes that's why you liked it 🙃🙃
you're totally right, I've saw an industrial application where I used a high speed cycling pneumatic cylinder, the pneumatic system of the shop was in a good average condition, the cooling of the cylinder was so important that ice formed at the exterior of the cylinder and of course, the cylinder circulation passages froze tight so I installed a permanent heating device at each end of the cylinder to overcome that condition, the situation of the regulator first stage is similar, the only way to avoid the freezing is to supply extra dry air in the tank and most compressor that are not equipped with a refrigerated air dryer are not able to supply that air quality, even compressors so equipped can fail that requirement if the drying system is not in top shape with new dissicants and a compressor that does not admit oil in the air stream as oil destroys dissicants very fast.
Right on Jacques. An electric heater for the 1st stage would be great, impossible, but great. I don't think that desiccants can be used for breathing air. Scuba compressors rely on what's called a separator where oil and water are removed mechanically. It's not perfect but works well, if, as you say, the system is well-maintained. Alec
Alec, So this brings up an interesting question. For example in ice diving applications or extreme cold if the diver chose to install an inline shut off between his 2nd stage inlet and low pressure supply line thinking if the regulator system freezes up and goes into free flow they could simply slide the inline shut off to save valuable gas in their cylinder. By suggesting the above is there any concern of the regulator failing to the point during a freeze and sending cylinder pressure down the LP line and rupturing the hose if the inline shut off was in the off position. Might it still be prudent for temporary use to allow just enough time for the regulator to thaw and return to standard operation? If single back mount cylinder diving with a redundant bail out maybe its not so easy to just turn the tank valve off by hand compared to an inline shutoff. An alternate necklace regulator can easily be sourced in the mouth as the free flowing regulator is shut off. After a brief moment open the shut off to see if the reg is back in standard operation. Anyones thoughts on this? thanks...
The only truly fail-proof way to continue a dive once a free-flow has started is to have a separate tank & regulator. A "Y" valve on a tank with a reg mounted on each leg of the Y would accomplish the same thing but turning off one Y and then turning on the other can be tricky. When I was making "questionable" dives (deep, solo, night, incursion, etc., or maybe a deep, solo, night incursion dive!), I wore 2 tanks with a complete separate reg system on each. It sounds complicated but there was no Safe Second so it wasn't so bad. Shutting off the LP line to a regulator would run the risk of a LP hose burst. You would need an in-line on the primary and on the Safe Second. If only one was turned off, the other would start to Free-Flow to relieve the pressure. It's possible a frozen reg would thaw but it would likely take more than couple of minutes AND only if the no air passed through it. That is, no breathing on that reg. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks for the insightful response and as I suspected. Likely why we don’t see this in practice and I completely follow the logic if HP gas is placed on the LP ports if there isn’t an available 2nd stage or OPV, over pressure valve as used with drysuit inflation cylinders, there is too much risk for a possible blown LP hose. Just heard of an ice diver that took a free flow after splashing through the ice hole and he reported his main cylinder was empty in nine minutes. They arrived at the dive location via helicopter. I understand if an inline shutoff was installed between the 1st stage LP out puts and LP hose/it would protect the down line hoses but at that point what’s the point as you might as well just turn off the cylinder valve. On a twin set this is a basic valve drill. For a single back mounted main cylinder it may be a bit difficult to manipulate the tank valve. Of course only doing all this if you have a complete working separate bail out reg in your mouth and thumb the dive to sort the gear out top side before proceeding with any more diving. The only concern is to save a dive cylinder from completely emptying while on site with limited resource on the day of the dive. Then again if the divers reg is free flowing due to ice even after it thaws it’s likey to return shortly there after in the same dive environment. Thank for the open discussion it can be very insightful for many of us as we sharpener awareness of what can happen when Merphy pays a visit. Cheers, #SeattleRingHunter
Hi Alec . Very interesting video I always thought that the second stage was the problem because that is where all the visible heat transfer fins are and that is where you see the freeflow I didn't think about the first stage bypassing and building more than the 150 psi then dumping through the mouthpieces. You talked about the very old regulators with the strait hose and valves locking up if the first stage fails or freezes and you get no air, I guess the newer ones you can still breath with a freeflow and end your dive safely! I look forward to your tech tip on the first stages and freezing up. I'm always learning something new (I can't think of any dumb old guys either HaHa) thanks Owen m
as always great teacher. Would have been great to expand more on how to limit the issues as the water in the air might not be something we have control over if there is only 1 shop in town (other than tell them, make sure they do the max). Like is there some 1rst stage design that are less prone (piston vs diaphragm) or size of the opening/overall size, or brand/model. Thanks
We're getting a video ready that will talk about various regulators that claim to be freeze-proof, and how they all fail to live up to their expectations. Coming soon Alain. Stay tuned. Alec
Sorry if you already answered this, but what do you do with a reg that freezes? I know you've said you're done diving for that day, but do you clean it? Does it need to be serviced? Does it fix itself once it gets warm again? What steps do you need to take before taking that reg on another dive?
If your reg free flows while diving, a controlled ascent is all you can do. Depending on water temperature and thermoclines, as you ascend the free flow will slow as ice melts. Sometimes it will stop completely at 20' during a safety stop. What a free flow says is "this reg can't take this cold water". Find warmer water to dive in or use a reg designed for cold water (below 50F /10C). Having a close and attentive buddy in cold water is very important so be careful. A
Alec: (to student) When you snatch the bubble from my reg., it is time for you to leave. Student: ahhh & scratching head ('cause they haven't heard of David Caradine) LoL
Very int. Think I have been very lucky so far, 5 years no freeze or freeflow and we do coldwater dives all year.. I use the Apeks XTX200 and 50 serviced regular and always do a breathing test before dives, even in the winter or during ice diving. Does the tank size matter, my logic says no? Anyway, been lucky so far, knock on wood!
Good luck or good dive management. I find they are related. The better my dive management, the luckier I am in the water.The tank size has no effect on the likelihood of freezing other than the longer you are in the water (big tank), the more likely a freeze up. Take care Tom. Alec
Im from Florida and visiting Germany and some guys want me to go diving with them and they all have 1 valve but 2 hookups on that 1 valve with 2 regs on 1 tank. They say its because of freezing! So 1 reg freezes underwater would they just switch to the other second stage mouthpiece under water and its that easy? And is it possible to go diving with them with my 1 valve 1 reg setup? Can i just surface if it freezes?
The key prevention should be not to breathe a reg unless under water, no matter how many hookups or valves are used. Your standard setup will work fine if following this one preventative step and should you have a freeze up, a safe slow ascent (as in every dive) with your buddy is the smart move. Have your German friends watch this video and ask if they breath regs above or below the water?? Good luck. A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I will tell them about your vids and ask them Sir! Thanks so much for chiming in. I feel a lot better with your advice since you been around the block and we speak the same tongue! Germans are known to be very exact and make everything as difficult for an American as possible :p IF NOT JUST TO MESS WITH US!!! LOL Actually they cant help themselves but because of that I'm not really looking forward to my dives with them, but I wanna dive, so I'm trying to stay open minded and hopefully learn something! :p Tomorrow they want to show me how to pick out my first Dry Suit.I guess they all dive with Dry Suits year round because they say the bottem of the lakes around here never really warms up. All these guys have a minimum of 300 dives and its only my first year diving. I try to take advice from the more experienced but theres some Know It Alls out there giving advice that almost got me more than hurt a couple times already, so i still try to think for myself, which offends many of them! Its an honor and very helpful to hear your stories and receive advice from you. Any other way to contact you to get a quicker reply or where I can share pictures with you? Facebook? Thank You and wish me luck!!!
Alec, why don't they have fins on the first stage to keep the heat conductive parts of the regulator nearer to the ambient temperature? Very common in cooling transistors etc. But I've never seen one on a reg, is it because the seat is thermally isolated from the body ? Chris
There are several reasons all basically related to 'not really needed' by most divers. If dived properly in cold water, watch my video S07E02 Prepping for Cold Water Diving, you shouldn't get a cold water free flow as water is always above freezing. Check it out may be some good ideas for you.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thanks Alec, Having had two free-flows at 36 and 31 Metres in succesive dives at around 6 C. ( at the beginning of my scuba adventure) I bought cold water regs the next weekend and never dove with rented regs in cold water again ! Oddly enough, it was a set of Sherwood Blizzard regs as you describe in S07E02. The good thing about having free flows in an inland lake with plenty of experienced divers around is that after experiencing it, there is a much lower chance of panic or task overloading when it happens next time... sometimes a bad dive can be a good thing long therm. However, since I've seen your video I'm guessing it was probably due to the fill having higher than optimal water content, I never had a dry mouth when diving with air from that shop, whereas I always get a dry mouth from fills from the current shop I use. Its a pity we don't have a device like our Oxygen sensor ( which I use diligently for Enriched Air) to show the moisture content of the fill. Thanks for the explanations,
Interesting! But then, if it is the moisture contained in the air we breathe that condenses and freezes, why does that tend to happen more easily in fresh water than in the sea, at the same water temperature? At least that is my perception. I dove a few times in 2-3 ºC seawater and my regulator worked fine; I did the same in a lake, and had a free flow after less than a minute. I thought it had to do with the freezing temperature of the water (lower for seawater because of the dissolved salt). But if what freezes is the air moisture, then salt or fresh water should not make any difference.
In all water types, the adiabatic process is the key factor causing a freeze up. Remember my tip to never breath a reg in cold water until the 1st stage is under water. I have ice dived many times without a free flow but seen other divers to 'warm water' activities like pushing the purge button several times, breathing the reg several times all before entering the water. Nature and physics need to be respected in extreme cold water. Safe diving sir.
It doesn't. For cold water diving look for a cold water certified 1st stage or add a cold water kit to it. Most cold water 1st stages have something like a heatsink build into it. Since water is above zero it will transfer some of that warmth into the first stage and prevents it from freezing.
Do we're talking about piston vs diaphragm frist stages or these sealing kits? I think the sealing kids just seals the system and wont help against freezing, maybe its good to keep dirt out of the regulator. Otherwise we can't win against the physics, if there is something that cool the parts we just can make sure these parts can still operate or we can make sure it can be heated by the enviroment good enough to stay in operation. Sidenote: most times I read about freezing of the second stages and not the first one.
Sealing kits and sealed regulators do NOT stop freezing. They do keep environmental water (the water in which you're diving) out of the regulator. That's more beneficial to the longevity of the regular than the longevity of the diver. It stops corrosion. Alec
Right jellyfish. Technically in Canada we use Celcius but some dumb, old guys (can't think of one right now!), are lost in the past. It's slowly disappearing but it's still common enough that most Canadians over 35 can talk both Celcius and Fahrenheit. Alec
Funny you should ask because many young people can't do that. Kevin is not really young but he spends his life with computers so I imagine he has to stop and think when he sees a clock with hands. Take care. Alec
I'm like Spock from Star Trek, half analog, half digital, but fluent in both. Alec is right, youngsters don't know analog clocks. Years ago, my 9 year old nephew, a bright kit, was in my car and pointed to the dash and said 'what's that?'. He was pointing to the analog clock on my dashboard, never seen one before. I'm also like Alec being half metric, half imperial units. I can still write cursive so we have a secret code kids can't read. Thanks for watching.
Close. Try "add-ee-a-batic". It's an odd word and can be hard to pronounce. It's Greek originally which might explain the odd combination of letters. Take care. Alec
Fantastic video! I wish I could have had you for physics :-P I'd like to point one thing out though: you're saying your favorite word wrong :-P You WROTE "adiabatic", but you keep SAYING "adibiatic". When you looked at the board was the only time you said it correctly. You mispronounced it in your other video on this subject too. Just some constructive criticism! Thank you for putting so much effort and time into such wonderful videos!
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter haha, I wasn't trying to be an ass about it, I was just pointing it out :-) it's not the accent, it's switching around the letters a bit. "Adiabatic", "adibiatic". Sorry, I've always been the one who corrects how people pronounce words, haha.
Ah I'm going to cut out the middle tank and just strap a fridge to my back for my next dive lol
The compressor will keep you warm.
Be sure to get at least a 100' extension cord!
Alec
@David S dry ice?
Hi Alec, I enjoyed your episode this morning, it's 08:31 am now. Watching & learning is terrific about SCUBA diving. Be well & hang tuff, say hi to Kevin. Bye 👍
Hi Mark.
If you watch the Sea Hunt Special; 2019 on my Sea Hunt playlist, you will see Kevin actually diving at Silver Springs.
Trust me Kevin is a very real force.
Alec
Well I attended the 2023 North American Ice Diving Festival and all three second stage regulators were free flowing so it makes sense that the issue was probably the first stage regulator. My IDM, octo, and Air2 all started free flowing after a few breaths (at least I had a quick disconnect to save air). It was -17 degrees Celsius or 1 degree Fahrenheit. One of the other tenders mentioned that my first stage was all frosted up. It was a great opportunity to meet like-minded folks.
Sounds like a good group of divers. I"m too old & cold for ice diving anymore but years back, I loved it. Thanks for sharing and keep on diving safe.
A
My father believes I have a low pressure system surrounding me, because when I open the fridge door, everything is sucked out until its empty.
Oh so true for my kids and now grand kids. Every time one of them opens the fridge door its a trip to the grocery store.
A.
I love physics and chemistry!
It's pretty neat. I taught science for several years a long time ago.
I really enjoyed seeing the sudden look of realization on the faces of students who hated science when I showed them how easy it was to understand.
That's what I miss most about making youtube videos. I can't see the faces of the viewers.
Alec
I just had a new diver ask me about this freezing. I told him what it was before I even watched your video Alec.... I was right!!
Good. And now you can tell him to watch the video so you look really smart.
Take care.
Alec
Wanting to find out what you was talking about about see Hunt so I watch a couple of episodes it turns out I've been watched about 30 episodes that's why you liked it 🙃🙃
Pretty neat stuff huh?
You are from Australia I'm guessing. Contact me at seahunter@vintagescuba.com .
Take care.
Alec
you're totally right,
I've saw an industrial application where I used a high speed cycling pneumatic cylinder, the pneumatic system of the shop was in a good average condition, the cooling of the cylinder was so important that ice formed at the exterior of the cylinder and of course, the cylinder circulation passages froze tight so I installed a permanent heating device at each end of the cylinder to overcome that condition, the situation of the regulator first stage is similar, the only way to avoid the freezing is to supply extra dry air in the tank and most compressor that are not equipped with a refrigerated air dryer are not able to supply that air quality, even compressors so equipped can fail that requirement if the drying system is not in top shape with new dissicants and a compressor that does not admit oil in the air stream as oil destroys dissicants very fast.
Right on Jacques.
An electric heater for the 1st stage would be great, impossible, but great.
I don't think that desiccants can be used for breathing air. Scuba compressors rely on what's called a separator where oil and water are removed mechanically. It's not perfect but works well, if, as you say, the system is well-maintained.
Alec
You know, this is probably the most complicated way anyone has ever explained freezing regulators to me. 😁
Alec, So this brings up an interesting question. For example in ice diving applications or extreme cold if the diver chose to install an inline shut off between his 2nd stage inlet and low pressure supply line thinking if the regulator system freezes up and goes into free flow they could simply slide the inline shut off to save valuable gas in their cylinder. By suggesting the above is there any concern of the regulator failing to the point during a freeze and sending cylinder pressure down the LP line and rupturing the hose if the inline shut off was in the off position. Might it still be prudent for temporary use to allow just enough time for the regulator to thaw and return to standard operation? If single back mount cylinder diving with a redundant bail out maybe its not so easy to just turn the tank valve off by hand compared to an inline shutoff. An alternate necklace regulator can easily be sourced in the mouth as the free flowing regulator is shut off. After a brief moment open the shut off to see if the reg is back in standard operation. Anyones thoughts on this? thanks...
The only truly fail-proof way to continue a dive once a free-flow has started is to have a separate tank & regulator. A "Y" valve on a tank with a reg mounted on each leg of the Y would accomplish the same thing but turning off one Y and then turning on the other can be tricky.
When I was making "questionable" dives (deep, solo, night, incursion, etc., or maybe a deep, solo, night incursion dive!), I wore 2 tanks with a complete separate reg system on each. It sounds complicated but there was no Safe Second so it wasn't so bad.
Shutting off the LP line to a regulator would run the risk of a LP hose burst. You would need an in-line on the primary and on the Safe Second. If only one was turned off, the other would start to Free-Flow to relieve the pressure.
It's possible a frozen reg would thaw but it would likely take more than couple of minutes AND only if the no air passed through it. That is, no breathing on that reg.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks for the insightful response and as I suspected. Likely why we don’t see this in practice and I completely follow the logic if HP gas is placed on the LP ports if there isn’t an available 2nd stage or OPV, over pressure valve as used with drysuit inflation cylinders, there is too much risk for a possible blown LP hose.
Just heard of an ice diver that took a free flow after splashing through the ice hole and he reported his main cylinder was empty in nine minutes. They arrived at the dive location via helicopter.
I understand if an inline shutoff was installed between the 1st stage LP out puts and LP hose/it would protect the down line hoses but at that point what’s the point as you might as well just turn off the cylinder valve.
On a twin set this is a basic valve drill. For a single back mounted main cylinder it may be a bit difficult to manipulate the tank valve. Of course only doing all this if you have a complete working separate bail out reg in your mouth and thumb the dive to sort the gear out top side before proceeding with any more diving.
The only concern is to save a dive cylinder from completely emptying while on site with limited resource on the day of the dive. Then again if the divers reg is free flowing due to ice even after it thaws it’s likey to return shortly there after in the same dive environment.
Thank for the open discussion it can be very insightful for many of us as we sharpener awareness of what can happen when Merphy pays a visit. Cheers, #SeattleRingHunter
Hi Alec . Very interesting video I always thought that the second stage was the problem because that is where all the visible heat transfer fins are and that is where you see the freeflow I didn't think about the first stage bypassing and building more than the 150 psi then dumping through the mouthpieces. You talked about the very old regulators with the strait hose and valves locking up if the first stage fails or freezes and you get no air, I guess the newer ones you can still breath with a freeflow and end your dive safely! I look forward to your tech tip on the first stages and freezing up. I'm always learning something new (I can't think of any dumb old guys either HaHa) thanks Owen m
I will discuss those "heat transfer fins" in our next cold water diving episode.
Thanks for watching Owen.
Alec
as always great teacher. Would have been great to expand more on how to limit the issues as the water in the air might not be something we have control over if there is only 1 shop in town (other than tell them, make sure they do the max). Like is there some 1rst stage design that are less prone (piston vs diaphragm) or size of the opening/overall size, or brand/model. Thanks
We're getting a video ready that will talk about various regulators that claim to be freeze-proof, and how they all fail to live up to their expectations.
Coming soon Alain. Stay tuned.
Alec
Sorry if you already answered this, but what do you do with a reg that freezes? I know you've said you're done diving for that day, but do you clean it? Does it need to be serviced? Does it fix itself once it gets warm again? What steps do you need to take before taking that reg on another dive?
If your reg free flows while diving, a controlled ascent is all you can do. Depending on water temperature and thermoclines, as you ascend the free flow will slow as ice melts. Sometimes it will stop completely at 20' during a safety stop. What a free flow says is "this reg can't take this cold water". Find warmer water to dive in or use a reg designed for cold water (below 50F /10C). Having a close and attentive buddy in cold water is very important so be careful.
A
Excellent presentation as always. How do regulators marketed as "cold water" differ from the rest?
That's my next 'cold water reg' video. There are some features that can be beneficial in cold water.
I'll share some of them with you.
Alec
Modern frigs use internal "vents" and have a fan blow hot air out instead of this passive shown cooling like the old one I have in the garage.
Yes. The removal of the heat is a crucial function of a modern fridge.
Alec
Alec: (to student) When you snatch the bubble from my reg., it is time for you to leave.
Student: ahhh & scratching head ('cause they haven't heard of David Caradine) LoL
Ha oh yes, Kung Fu and 'grasshopper'. Remember that show well.
Very int. Think I have been very lucky so far, 5 years no freeze or freeflow and we do coldwater dives all year.. I use the Apeks XTX200 and 50 serviced regular and always do a breathing test before dives, even in the winter or during ice diving. Does the tank size matter, my logic says no? Anyway, been lucky so far, knock on wood!
Good luck or good dive management. I find they are related. The better my dive management, the luckier I am in the water.The tank size has no effect on the likelihood of freezing other than the longer you are in the water (big tank), the more likely a freeze up.
Take care Tom.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter luck - preparation meets opportunity.
Im from Florida and visiting Germany and some guys want me to go diving with them and they all have 1 valve but 2 hookups on that 1 valve with 2 regs on 1 tank. They say its because of freezing! So 1 reg freezes underwater would they just switch to the other second stage mouthpiece under water and its that easy? And is it possible to go diving with them with my 1 valve 1 reg setup? Can i just surface if it freezes?
The key prevention should be not to breathe a reg unless under water, no matter how many hookups or valves are used. Your standard setup will work fine if following this one preventative step and should you have a freeze up, a safe slow ascent (as in every dive) with your buddy is the smart move. Have your German friends watch this video and ask if they breath regs above or below the water?? Good luck.
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I will tell them about your vids and ask them Sir! Thanks so much for chiming in. I feel a lot better with your advice since you been around the block and we speak the same tongue! Germans are known to be very exact and make everything as difficult for an American as possible :p IF NOT JUST TO MESS WITH US!!! LOL Actually they cant help themselves but because of that I'm not really looking forward to my dives with them, but I wanna dive, so I'm trying to stay open minded and hopefully learn something! :p Tomorrow they want to show me how to pick out my first Dry Suit.I guess they all dive with Dry Suits year round because they say the bottem of the lakes around here never really warms up. All these guys have a minimum of 300 dives and its only my first year diving. I try to take advice from the more experienced but theres some Know It Alls out there giving advice that almost got me more than hurt a couple times already, so i still try to think for myself, which offends many of them! Its an honor and very helpful to hear your stories and receive advice from you. Any other way to contact you to get a quicker reply or where I can share pictures with you? Facebook? Thank You and wish me luck!!!
Alec, why don't they have fins on the first stage to keep the heat conductive parts of the regulator nearer to the ambient temperature? Very common in cooling transistors etc. But I've never seen one on a reg, is it because the seat is thermally isolated from the body ? Chris
There are several reasons all basically related to 'not really needed' by most divers. If dived properly in cold water, watch my video S07E02 Prepping for Cold Water Diving, you shouldn't get a cold water free flow as water is always above freezing. Check it out may be some good ideas for you.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thanks Alec, Having had two free-flows at 36 and 31 Metres in succesive dives at around 6 C. ( at the beginning of my scuba adventure) I bought cold water regs the next weekend and never dove with rented regs in cold water again ! Oddly enough, it was a set of Sherwood Blizzard regs as you describe in S07E02.
The good thing about having free flows in an inland lake with plenty of experienced divers around is that after experiencing it, there is a much lower chance of panic or task overloading when it happens next time... sometimes a bad dive can be a good thing long therm.
However, since I've seen your video I'm guessing it was probably due to the fill having higher than optimal water content, I never had a dry mouth when diving with air from that shop, whereas I always get a dry mouth from fills from the current shop I use.
Its a pity we don't have a device like our Oxygen sensor ( which I use diligently for Enriched Air) to show the moisture content of the fill.
Thanks for the explanations,
They do. Check out Apeks MTX 1st stage. (And no, it's not a Dalek!)
Interesting! But then, if it is the moisture contained in the air we breathe that condenses and freezes, why does that tend to happen more easily in fresh water than in the sea, at the same water temperature?
At least that is my perception. I dove a few times in 2-3 ºC seawater and my regulator worked fine; I did the same in a lake, and had a free flow after less than a minute. I thought it had to do with the freezing temperature of the water (lower for seawater because of the dissolved salt). But if what freezes is the air moisture, then salt or fresh water should not make any difference.
In all water types, the adiabatic process is the key factor causing a freeze up. Remember my tip to never breath a reg in cold water until the 1st stage is under water. I have ice dived many times without a free flow but seen other divers to 'warm water' activities like pushing the purge button several times, breathing the reg several times all before entering the water. Nature and physics need to be respected in extreme cold water. Safe diving sir.
I just learned Adiabatic in my college physics class today.
And you now have a real world application to reference. I guess the internet can be useful for something other than cat videos.
Enjoy
Alec.
And know I know!
Casually drop your new knowledge at the next club meeting. Remember how to spell adiabatic properly.
A
09:39 There is one more difference, the fridge is lighter than me.
You yes, Kevin, not so much.
A
How does a sealed 1st stage help with freezing if that's how it works? Thanks
It doesn't. For cold water diving look for a cold water certified 1st stage or add a cold water kit to it. Most cold water 1st stages have something like a heatsink build into it. Since water is above zero it will transfer some of that warmth into the first stage and prevents it from freezing.
We're going to talk about 'cold water kits' and supposedly 'freeze-proof' regulators soon.
Alec
Do we're talking about piston vs diaphragm frist stages or these sealing kits? I think the sealing kids just seals the system and wont help against freezing, maybe its good to keep dirt out of the regulator. Otherwise we can't win against the physics, if there is something that cool the parts we just can make sure these parts can still operate or we can make sure it can be heated by the enviroment good enough to stay in operation.
Sidenote: most times I read about freezing of the second stages and not the first one.
Sealing kits and sealed regulators do NOT stop freezing. They do keep environmental water (the water in which you're diving) out of the regulator. That's more beneficial to the longevity of the regular than the longevity of the diver.
It stops corrosion.
Alec
40° thats more than body temperature? How can something freeze?
He meant 40F, not 40C. In Canada, we still often use Fahrenheit for temperature.
Right jellyfish.
Technically in Canada we use Celcius but some dumb, old guys (can't think of one right now!), are lost in the past.
It's slowly disappearing but it's still common enough that most Canadians over 35 can talk both Celcius and Fahrenheit.
Alec
40F not C
I wonder if Kevin can read an analog clock?
Funny you should ask because many young people can't do that. Kevin is not really young but he spends his life with computers so I imagine he has to stop and think when he sees a clock with hands.
Take care.
Alec
I'm like Spock from Star Trek, half analog, half digital, but fluent in both. Alec is right, youngsters don't know analog clocks. Years ago, my 9 year old nephew, a bright kit, was in my car and pointed to the dash and said 'what's that?'. He was pointing to the analog clock on my dashboard, never seen one before. I'm also like Alec being half metric, half imperial units. I can still write cursive so we have a secret code kids can't read.
Thanks for watching.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I use a analog face on my Samsung Galaxy watch. Not sure of there is any irony there or not?
@@KevinSmith-hc4pc I assume you meant kid not kit. You can fix it if you want.
This is his video where he is talking about filling stations Season 8 Episode 9
czcams.com/video/IDv-c5WcPh4/video.html
Thanks Slick.
Alec
Add-bi-attic.
Close.
Try "add-ee-a-batic".
It's an odd word and can be hard to pronounce. It's Greek originally which might explain the odd combination of letters.
Take care.
Alec
Fantastic video! I wish I could have had you for physics :-P I'd like to point one thing out though: you're saying your favorite word wrong :-P You WROTE "adiabatic", but you keep SAYING "adibiatic". When you looked at the board was the only time you said it correctly. You mispronounced it in your other video on this subject too. Just some constructive criticism! Thank you for putting so much effort and time into such wonderful videos!
Maybe its my Canadian accent? Appreciate the note and I will try to say it properly in any future videos.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter haha, I wasn't trying to be an ass about it, I was just pointing it out :-) it's not the accent, it's switching around the letters a bit. "Adiabatic", "adibiatic". Sorry, I've always been the one who corrects how people pronounce words, haha.