Corvette Ignition Control Module Test (no spark troubleshooting)
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2019
- Video Breakdown:
00:20 1994 Chevy Corvette, intermittent no start, new fuel pump installed, code 41 EST Open code
01:22 - RPM signal during cranking
01:59 - checking for spark (in-line spark tester)
03:40 - scope training videos (time base, trigger, sample rate)
CZcams - Picoscope Basics Part 1 • Picoscope Basics Part ...
- Picoscope Basics Part 2 • Picoscope Basics Part ...
SD Premium - Snap-On Verus Part 11 tinyurl.com/y4mwwj8s
- Snap-On Verus Part 12 tinyurl.com/y5nms4gf
- Snap-On Verus Part 13 tinyurl.com/yxsw7yzr
03:53 - primary ignition current test (no control found)
05:27 - testing for power on coil + using a test light
06:24 - testing for power to the ICM
07:48 - wiring diagram of this system, description, operation and testing
09:23 - control testing with a test light videos
CZcams - No Spark Diagnostics "Control Testing" Part 1 a 2014 ScannerDanner Premium video • No Spark Diagnostics "...
- No Spark Diagnostics "Control Testing" Part 2 a 2014 ScannerDanner Premium video • No Spark Diagnostics "...
11:05 - PCM to ICM control signal test
15:40 - power feed test to the ICM
16:46 - ground circuit test for the ICM
17:06 - faulty ICM confirmed
17:23 - control test with a lab scope compared to a test light (no control)
19:00 - warning on a shorted coil damaging the ICM driver
19:50 - code 41 research
23:17 - start/stall you hear in the background was this case study • First Day Filming at M...
23:41 - drunk guy case study
Low Fuel Pressure from a bad fuel pump ground (Ford Ranger)
• Low Fuel Pressure from...
25:47 - next day, new ICM installed
27:19 - coil primary current ramp pattern compared to known bad
28:24 - coil primary voltage pattern (showing control)
29:40 - what good "control" looks like on a labscope
30:17 - what good "control" looks like using a test light
ScannerDanner Tools:
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For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
![1988 Ford F150 EEC-IV , No Spark [Good Ignition Coil, Module and Distributor Pick-up]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6UPe5f1s2ak/mqdefault.jpg)
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Also don't forget to check the description of this video for links to other mentioned videos
Why would my ltft be all over the place under load changes when stft seems steady between 0 and +10?
ScannerDanner Btw I have come to notice that some test light flicker tests when checking for spark isn’t always as accurate with led style test lights. Best to use the older style test lights for those tests.
Thx Scanner 4 the link, these tools r amazing and I already got 2 in my cart!
Just wish there were more Mercedes in Pennsyl. 4 u guys to tear apart! I like working on them but they r tricky!
@@Mechaniclyfe yes, never use an LED type light for this type of testing, first you risk cooking the light and second, very low voltages still make these lights look the same as higher voltage. I almost never use an LED light for troubleshooting. The test light I used in this video is an incandescent style bulb and it is listed on my Amazon affiliate link above in the pinned comment. It is around $20 for that light
FINALLY! Old school OBD1 diagnosis! Now we're talking. Now, we're in my
area of diagnosis. Test lights and flow charts.However, I did enjoy seeing the lab scope used to verify your diagnosis. Thanks , Paul. Great video on control of coil circuit.
As a Corvette fan I appreciate that your keeping them running! Your editing is fantastic Paul. It's always a pleasure to watch your videos. It's very apparent that you take pride in your work. And congratulations on having a shop bay. Nothing to do with this video but I wanted to thank you for all the videos over the years. I recently fixed a vehicle that went to other shops. They gave up. Your classes and videos were instrumental to me in how I found the issue. (2006 Dodge Ram, intermittent crank, no start).
Great video Paul good to see your brothers shop up and loaded with clients. Looking foward to seeing many more videos
For me it's a higher level diagnostic case study involving various potentially defective parts living in different locations. Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge! 👍
FINALLY! A video on a GM OBDI car. And on an engine that I actually have! On that engine, every ignition related part is difficult to gain access to. Two digit fault codes and 50 data PIDs. Aahhh, the good old days. A great video. Thank you for sharing.
Paul and James, I truly enjoy your videos. Just sent in my monthly subscription and will continue to be a part of your class for as long as you put out videos. Watch your regular and new and improved classes all the time. Your son Caleb is also a big part of your success as he does a great job of editing and the asking of questions all us novices would ask. I know aircraft inside and out and now want to know automotive electronics inside and out. Thank you for that opportunity and answering any questions I might have. Thank everyone involved its a true family effort. also, thank Rosedale Tech for allowing you to do it. Great job ❤️️ Paul I wanted to mention your brother James shop is quite large. Looks like a friendly place to work. Best of luck to all
Thank you Arthur! I agree, Caleb adds an element that I cannot recreate without him and he has gotten really, really good with editing. Although I take the credit for this one. Caleb has about 2 weeks left before he graduates, then I get to have him full time! I am so looking forward to this and you guys will definitely benefit from him being around more. It has been rough the past few months as he has the lead role in the schools musical/play and he's at practice 5 days a week, then leads church worship on Sundays. No time for SD right now, but that is changing soon!!
Thank you for helping me make this possible. CZcams ad revenue alone simple doesn't pay the bills.
You are a pair of talented men. Looking forward to more.
Great to see the Danner brothers together! 👍 Thanks for another informative video!
Finally bought your book today. Great stuff
We appreciate auto technicians like you, thx for sharing.
I'm actually really stoked for more video of the Danner Brothers. Always great content
Clear and too the point as usual, good vid , Paul's vids never get boring
top notch. when your brother called you saying it runs perfectly i was not surprised! great video
The dtc 41 will set if the PCM sees more than 4.6 volts while cranking the engine. The IC signal goes between 0.5 to 4.5 volts. Great video and glad to see you working with your brother 👍. You two are awesome teachers and techs.
Thank you so much for this video. This was my exact problem on my c4. I used noid lights, a test light and a multi-meter and was able to follow along. Also, my car (1996 OBD-II) did not throw any codes. The car died while driving and would not restart, all fixed. Thanks!
Awesome! Nice job transfering the tests I was showing to the equipment you have.
Thank you Dos Danners. Good job. I appreciate your videos. Have a blessed and safe week.
Yep Danner was right smart people always had a spare module in the glove box. High failure rate with ignition module along with rotor burn thru, coil failure & distributor cap carbon tracking. Great video and look forward to seeing you guys working together.
Paul, thanks for all the quality content, edits, and reference material you provide!
I'm also liking the arrows pointing out items in videos.
Time consuming but worth it for sure
Love these videos with your brother, he is a cool dude! Awesome job guys!
Even with the glare you still produce great videos Paul.
Danner, I'm not quite sure whats changed be it softwor techniques. Either way your video editing and flow is insanely better than it was years back. It still worked back then and got the point across. Its just amazing now. Great video Danner(s)
I'm so glad you made this comment. I really have learned how to enhance the videos with still pictures or previous scenes and also the addition of arrows for what I am talking about. It really take a long time to do this! This video was about 6 or 7 hours of editing and as I was completing this, I was thinking to myself, is it worth the time? Sounds like it was!!
Thank you so much
@@ScannerDanner It's absolutely worth the time! THANK YOU!
Nice ! Filming/editing looks great! Tell your brother good look with his new shop. Nice Set up !
Great video, wish I knew more about how to use these tech devices but these types of videos always help, thanks it guided me in the right direction to troubleshoot some issues on my vette. Thanks
Reminds me of the early 90s Ford systems.
Good videos Sir. Thanks
Beautiful job love the way the brothers get along scanners explanation enjoy this very very much thank you guys
Man thus stuff literally excites me. Thank you for opening me up to it!
Awesome video. Helped me find out my problem with my 96. The issue I’m having now is finding a good ICM. I bought a delco, Delphi, and a Napa but all were junk.
Thanks for this video! My 1992 C4 just threw this 41 code this weekend. You've just saved me a whole lot of head scratching. Now I know where to focus my attention. It's likely I have the exact same problem, which requires the exact same solution. Now I know how to check it out properly. Hopefully that will have my Corvette running again very soon.
Glad I could help
Congrats Paul and Danner! Im glad you two are working together! Im sure you two will kill it!
Voltage Drop Diagnostics , or each other, what ever comes first.
tracycolorado ha! Thanks always a possibility when working when family! Lol
@@tracycolorado haha nah, we're past those days, plus I don't work for him, what we do is mutually beneficial for each other. It is a win, win. If I worked FOR him, you would be right, there would be issues
thanks man!
This vintage ignition was almost always ignition module back in the'90s. ODB one gotta love it.
Good video Paul and Danner you guys are great,fun one
great video SD thanks opti spark brings back memories
Thanks a lot for the video, really helped my brother out getting his lt1 back on the tarmac where it belongs here in 🇬🇧
working with your brother that shop better be ready to get busy yall are awesome techs
Great video always learn when watching.you two brothers are awesome together.
boy that remind me alot of the old day diagnostic with test light on module.thanks
Always enjoy your videos with your bro
Perfect... as always Paul..Thank you so much,once again..Don't bother with shots and white balance.Your videos are fine and we will always follow you ...
Paul, great video,as always!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep the videos coming. really well done thanks!
Thank you! I had a ton of time in the edits on this one
Darn it..
No more Heyyy Peteeeeeee..
Excellent diag. like always Paul..
Its great to see this in action just like the book...
What happened to Pete?
Danner has a pretty nice shop, congratulations to him. I hope we'll be seeing more of the Danner boys in the future.
count on it!
Awesome,like the old school tech as well! Thanks
Great video. Watching you guys makes me wish I had a brother! 😅👍🏻👌🏼
Always thankful for the low tech ways to test. Maybe one day I can find a decent scan tool on ebay or some where for cheap.
the test light "control test" is one of my favorites!
Thank you guys lots of fun.
Looks very easy to work on! Aha great video keep it up danners! 😊
Great analysis Danner thanks.
I just did all of this yesterday with the same conclusion. Glad i was correct.
Real good video like always. Huge blessing working with your brother. Your mom I bet is very happy about that. 🙏🙏🙏 for your Mom.
Mom loves it! Thanks brother
Love seeing you and your brother together! SO happy for you guys. We'll never forget the Ranger and the 'Vette - the 2 first diag vids from Danner's new shop! 👍👍
I had never even seen an Optispark system until just recently, when a family friend bought a mid-90's Camaro. Car ended up being more than he bargained for, so he got rid of it - I never got to play around with it (probably a good thing from the looks of it). No idea why GM went that route - I think the HEI was 20x more reliable, at least after each system got 15 or more years on them (IMO). Even the flat distributors on the first OBD-II trucks were a cross-firing, moisture-trapping nightmare. GM never likes to stick with what works ... great for us, but annoying when you own one!
Appreciate all your hard work on these vids, Paul! Can't imagine the hours this took to piece together. GREAT job! THANK YOU!! 🍻
Oh, about 6 or 7 for this one :-)
@@ScannerDanner - Not surprised there! WOW! Thanks for the effort!!!👍 🍻
Engine stopped in parking lot with no warning. Just did these checks on my '85 Corvette. No flash on the test light. New cap rotor, they were shot even though I replaced them 1 year ago. Coil had power, replaced it and ICM. Is running great now!
Very familiar with these cars. I own a 93 Corvette and I've worked on a lot of them as well.
hi following you from Mauritius island,nice your tutorials
Two Danners for the price of one. So Clark is as talkative as ever. Where is Nick? It's gonna be fun!!
Intermittents are fun on the GM systems! Nice Diagnostics, Nice Outcome for the car.
This was the problem with my 92 vette..shop said Opti spark ..then did some testing and called back and said ICM...wow from 1400 to 400.00...great video
It Is Nice to See yall working together Paul your are Gonna have to Video bomb James A bit more XD!!!
For my DIY guys out there, or for those of you in the field doing some side work and need service information. You can buy access to a single car for $20 for a month, just bill this to your customer or make it part of your diagnostic fee
eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
aw job Danner ,test light is 1 of best friend forever.
"Old Rattletraps"? My '87 C4 L98 is hurt by that comment. Truly cut to the quick. LOL. Great video, thank you. I have similar problems but it takes about 90 minutes before I get the performance drop and attempt to stall.
Thanks for this! I drive a 95 Z28 with the LT1! Lots of great info!
Nice! Tell your Corvette friends 😉
@@ScannerDanner I'll tell my Camaro and Impala SS friends, too. ;-)
really nice...amazing channel
Saludos y gracias maestro buen aprendizaje en los temas los llevo a cabo
Great looking shop
Awsome video thanks paul
Gotta say he knows his stuff!
Brotherly working together....so cool......
Great stuff, don't have scope so I appreciate the test light method
One Thing i do admit Your lighting on the actual lighting on the components is very good..BETTER then eny videos i have seen.wich is excellent.THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR..HUMBLELIZUM...SHOP..JOKE.
Thank you! I really put a lot of time into the edits on this one
good editing on this video !
Hey Scanner you're technical so you'll get this. White balance is all about colour tint in any given light. What you were talking about, with respect, is contrast. Loving your work man thanks.
Thank you for the lesson
thank you so much from africa your videos very helpful to us we learn from you thank you
“That’s racist!” Hahaha! Awesome video as always! I just subscribed to your premium channel last night. Really looking forward to learning more. Thanks!
Thanks so much! I look forward to hearing from you in the comments of the videos.
Good idea to space the module OFF the head. Get an air gap between the head and module. Usually fixes the fried module issue,forever.
Can u just carefully tie it off the engine ?
Thanks Paul thanks for share
Nice channel ScannerDanner!
Thank you paul .
Thx Mr Danner👍
Thank you very much your going to do good !!!!! Keep it up !!! I mean great !!!!!
Thank you for your reply much appreciated I have fuel pressure I will check the injectors next 👍🏻 keep you posted
I have videos on shorted injectors on these early model GM systems
ScannerDanner I’m watching one now 👍🏻 I’m going to be doing some filming on it soon for our new channel any pointers are greatly appreciated all the best jay
@@eastprestonclassics3963 if it is an injector short, you will have good spark and good fuel pressure and no injector pulse when you test for it. You can take and unplug one injector and test it with a test light. I have some videos on testing fuel injectors too. If you have one, a noid light comes in very handy for this test
ScannerDanner The car cold starts and runs really smooth for a car of her age after about 6mins it then dies and won’t re start and at this point I have no spark but still has power going to the opti .I replaced the coil but not the ignition module as the paper work said it had been changed but I’m not sure 🤔
Okay, then don't worry about the injectors and do the tests I've shown in this video with the test light to confirm module operation. Make sure it is an incandescent test light, if you're using an LED type light, throw that thing in the garbage, they are useless for troubleshooting
☆☆☆☆☆ 5S Thank you SD for this video.
And the mounting of the icm, right on the hot head. We put nuts on the bolts behind them, to make make them stand off the head and allow air flow behind the icm.
That is a great tip!
A heat sink would help. Be creative, great video.
@@MrCoontastic They came with heat sinks, but the heat sink were mounted flush against the head.
@@diymisfit_Mechanic_UDX404 yes meant like a real cpu cooler or they could of just put it all on the firewall too begin with.
@@MrCoontastic ah ha, yes great idea
That’s a bad place to put a module. The failure rate is high when they sit on the hot engine. You’d think they would be smarter then that. Ford knew it and moved it. Smart thing to do is move the module or make an insulater to mount it to. No doubt it’s gonna happen again.
Thanks man!!! 👍👍👍
I'm glad to be growing up in the days of OBDII.
It's all the same. The flow charts still suck lol
@@ScannerDanner Lol. At least we have more pids to help give us direction though, and everything is (within reason) standardized.
Great vid and great Diag. had one 95 Vett in for CEO of local NBC station in for a No Start and noticed a leaking W.P. on the cam cap diaged a Module and replaced the DIST unit but DIDN'T REPLACE the COIL
later in the week vett back for interment stall, cut-off and no start.... WTF..
Back at the shop Starts ..runs ruff and rich.. Bang Bang on the PCM and pow BTN.
bad coil = bad MOD= bad PCM =$$$
Moral of the story, Replace all ignition components on this type vett at the same time! Period...
the initial problem was the water pump leaking on/into the cap.. Popped the module and it was replaced, but latter to find out that errant high voltage back feed into the ECU.
Try finding an ECU for a 95 Vett cant... have to have the ECU rebuilt at a cost higher than they cost new.
REPLACE ALL
I own a '93 Vette. ICM failure on C4 Corvettes '92-'96 is a common failure.
and pretty much every gm products of that era, same module, same heat sink, just different location. often caused by the junk flat-pack dist cap/rotor and wires killing the coil ;)
@@throttlebottle5906 the LT1, 92-96 Vettes have the good 'ol Optispark distributor mounted to the front of the engine. Looks like an octopus. 1992 and 93 models that have a water pump leak will turn the Opti into green goo. Coolant drips right into it, improvements to seal up the Opti were made in '94. It is driven by a pin turning at the end of the camshaft.
More videos Ozz last one was door handle I think :)
@@weldingjunkie I will be filming and posting more Corvettes vids soon. Thanks! czcams.com/users/ozzstar
@@ozzstars_cars "anti-spark" is more fitting a term :))
right, big ugly flat cap and other gm's had similar but in standard rear distributor location, they'd always burn through internally and you'll get multiple cylinders firing at once, regardless of the button direction and that's without any green crusties from coolant leak!
seems a good candidate for electric water pumps, but i don't recall if there ever was such a thing for them..
Thanks man for sharing am crzy of vette
So much good info,thats why you don't fast forward a ScannerDanner vid....BTW were not looking at your face.LOL Just listening to the Knowledge.thanks for the video!
awesome comment, thank you!
1:02 cool starter, Now I wanna fit that on my 97 Z28.
Congratulations To Danner and you Paul I can tell you are beside yourself ..... so happy for your brother. Good luck you guys
I really am, love my brother
James is too funny I remember in the day people kept points and balance resisters in glove box mopar got to love em lol
Another great video and use of a lap scoop as far as the code gm did not have logic diagnostics on distributor type ignition systems with a single coil and the Ignition module is not bi-directional and only reads PMW from the ecm and The ecm would look for a 350rpm and higher with in a short time frame and would increase ilde to prove that the engine is running if this is not meet the ecm will give you that code
thank you! confirms what I thought as well
This really makes me want to buy a scope... if only I had the money for a pico.
I have a pocket scope listed on my tools page (pinned comment), it is called a uScope and the master kit is around $400. Highly recommended!
I have looked at the the uscope, but is having more than one channel worth it as a dealership tech? Thanks for the reply.
Just the words "Opti Spark" trigger pshycological twitches in anyone that worked in the OBD 1 days; ohhh the horror ;) Good vid as usual
A lot of people talk smack on the all the "new electronic systems" but they have no clue.
1. Check for spark at coil wire
2. If no spark check for battery voltage at pins A and D of ICM
3. If no power at A & D then chase pink wire back to fuse 11 for break in wire
4. Check for Ignition control on pin B, use meter or scope and look for .5 - 4.5 Vac or square waves indicating a signal/pulse
5.if no voltage check for continuity from pin B on ICM to black connecter on ECM pin 5, if open or infinite repair wire
6. Check for 5v on A and B of Opti spark harness, and for battery voltage on pin C
7. Fuel pressure should hold 40-50 psi
I am about as amateur as you can be. I can replace parts and some basic troubleshooting but I love the logic you lay out here. Very solid help.I do not have a cool scanner, Danner. I have one of these boat anchors in a 1994 S10 Blazer, painless wiring harness and MSD coil and distributor. Crank no start. I have signal at the injectors, I have signal at the coil, I have fuel pressure, but no spark at the spark plugs. Can anyone "talk me off the edge of the cliff" cuz I feel I should replace the opti but I want to be sure. ICM I did replace.
Was the MSD coil and distributor one that is direct plug it or did you modify the wiring?
@@ScannerDanner if there were wiring mods, it was done by the previous owner. However, everything seems to be coming off of, or connecting to, original wiring harnesses or to the Painless harness. It ran and drove, i let it sit and then it would not start.
Is it a flat distributor cap with the plug wires on the sides?
@@ScannerDanner - yes it is.
@@Muddytrickle okay, is spark good at the coil itself? It should jump more than a half inch gap. I use an incandescent test light for this test. DO NOT use an LED light, it will cook it.