Is my Harley Overheating? (Part 2 with ALL the data)
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- On my recent trip to Laidlaws Harley-Davidson I noticed my Harley-Davidson Heritage 114 getting pretty hot when my feet were anywhere other than on the floor boards. I wanted to run this test to show exactly what is happening, unfortunately the air temps were not nearly as high when I first noticed this but I did still get similar enough results to share. Let me now in the comments below what you think is going on.
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I have a 2018 Heritage as well and have experienced the same issues when placing my feet on the highway pegs, or extending my knees and legs further apart on the floor boards. I started noticing it after installing the PV tuner last spring and began to monitor the engine temp. I thought it might just be me or my bike, and did notice a swing in temps of about 5-10 degrees when moving my feet to the highway pegs and back to the floor boards again even when riding at 45-65 MPH. I also installed the JES Custom fork wind deflectors (they work really well!) and thought that this may be contributing to the swing, but sounds like this may not be the case given what you are experiencing both with and without the oil cooler. I've just gotten used to it and when it starts getting too hot, like raising over 300 degrees during summer months here in New England, I just move my feet back to the floor boards to drop the engine temperature. Please let me know if you talk to a dealer or find out why this is happening since it sure is strange and not sure what is going on, but obviously it has to do with how wind is being forced through the engine for cooling. Keep those vids coming and thanks!
Interesting. I really appreciate that input. I will keep looking into it.
Kevin Baxter would know. He’s awesome.
First thing I thought too...
What tune?
Thanks I have never heard of him before this comment so I will go check his channel for sure.
I'm really glad you did this study and brought us the results. I'd hate to see the temps riding in ambient temperature over 115 degrees. Wow. Ride safe..
Thanks Ryan. 115 riding is no joke for sure.
I do… it was 114 last Tuesday at 2:45pm… I was in the city and I was wearing a helmet and gear. I had my summer gloves on because the hand grips were burning my hands through the gloves. The heat from the road, the heat from the cars next to me was causing me to start to feel nauseous. I took a road that was in the desert and took me back to a gas station to get water and cool my bike. I took off and I was getting air on me and the bike… next thing I know a motorcycle cop was going the opposite direction and flipped around and gave me a criminal speeding ticket…
The on,y logic explanation would be that the wind deflects from your legs and flows better into the cylinder ribs to cool it down with feet on the floor boards.
Dan I never noticed my Fatboy do this and I had the dyno jet on my bar so I could watch engine and head temp as well. I always watched both of these very close. I also only had 1 time that the engine shut the rear cylinder down over 18 plus months. I never did place my legs back on the rear pegs only because my legs would cramp if I did. The only thing it can be is the changing of the air flow but it doesn’t make sense that it can change that much. I am going to inquire to a few friends about this, H-D mechanics and see what they think. Good work!
Papa P.
Interesting. I appreciate that input and any information you might be able to gather from others.
I wouldn't think foot pos would have Any affect on temp. Clearly it does that is interesting. Thx for sharing Dan. Ps, the overlays were super cool.
Thanks David, its a bit of work to put it all together but I thought it was a better way to help tell the story.
So to keep your engine cooler you have to cramp up more (on the floorboards) and absorb the exhaust heat with your legs. Defeats the purpose of having hiway pegs which help you stretch out and give your leg some air. But for Harley it makes perfect sense. "M8 is great"
Absolutely fantastic video! Seeing the head temp crawl up, on a cool day, at highway speed.....getting a bit excessive at over 330. I received your email. I look forward to speaking.
Thanks Kevin. I haven't forgotten about you either I have just had a really insanely busy couple of weeks here and trying to keep up has been brutal
I MISS Phoenix so much, was going to move to Avondale a couple years ago, but it fell thru... fun watching to road signs on the 101 as you recorded... ENJOY!!!
Happy to let you ride vicariously through me, Thanks for watching.
Interesting data. My 2019 SGS was upwards of 340 the other night. I too was positioning my feet on the highway pegs. I would think that would allow more air to engine but I guess not. I’m actually thinking of removing my lowering fairings since I believe they are robbing the wind to the engine causing the heat.
Excellent video! I just installed the Powervision on my 114 Street Glide w 475 Cam. I rode 7 minutes and my temperature was at 267F, but I’m at 92F outside with 67 percent humidity. I will monitor it and see what numbers I will get. Thanks. Your video helps a lot. My twin cam I used to get about 250-270F. But from what I’ve learned the engine temperature sensors are in different positions on M8 and Twin Cam. The M8 is in the rear of the back cylinder and reads hotter temps compared to Twin Cam.
Old HUGH HERE NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR 114 IT'S AIR COOLED ,YOUR LEG POSITION IS CRITICAL TO ITS COOLING BY DESIGN I EXPECT FROM HD. I am as well as Comercial plane pilot and cooling those air cooled engines is really critical. They have metal pieces bent and mounted in certain spots to force air to the heads and cylinders to promote cooling especially on take off were power is
Wide open. you were running 80 + over 3000 rpm that's taking off my friend . NUMBERS ALL LOOKED GOOD TO ME.NOW KEEP YOUR LEGS ON THE FLOOR BOARDS AND ALL WILL BE GOOD. YOUR SEEING THIS VITAL INFORMATION WILL LET YOU CONTROL YOUR ENGINE TEMPS TO GET LONGEVITY FROM YOUR ENGINE . ALSO NEWER ENGINES ARE MADE TO RUN A BIT HOTTER TO KEEP THE EPA happy. 270 degrees at 80 MPH thumbs up
Thanks Hugh!! I really appreciate the info. I definitely wanted to harvest as much crowd sourced input from the comments section on this one.
SO Just an a Indy wrench here, those are really good IAT's on average the engine temp runs about forty to fifty degrees higher that the IAT, My test bike 18 RK Police 107 with similar mods runs 110f at he intake on average, so leveling out around 277f engine temp, 303f head temp at 80 mph at over 75 outsides temps. I did pull the leg shields, vent the air cleaner housing, intsall head breathers and install the fueling short sump plug. All bought a little temp reduction (322 max previously) depending on riding conditions. Bottom line is -better pull a sump test and upgrade that pump. (if thats it)
If the engine is getting over 300° just imagine what the fuel in the tank is getting to.
Look up the Flashpoint of the fuel that you use.
Then figure out where that fuel is stored.
Between your legs.
Good riding and stay safe.
I just looked it up and the auto ignition point of gasoline is 536 degrees so I dont think that is an issue but I will say that your comment made me look it up lol
Crazy man, I didn’t think it would make such a difference.
Yeah I was kind of shocked by it.
The only thing I could see just from the different angles is with your feet on the floorboards it’s possibly channeling all that incoming air through the fins on the engine which would help keep everything cooler.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing but it just seems odd to me that the bike would gain heat at 80 mph in 65 degrees simply over feet placement. I am very interested in the comments that come in on this video for sure.
@@GearsGadgets It does look like the angle of the incoming air is blocked to some degree with your legs in the gynecological position. Simple and repeatable experiment as you have proven
I believe that the M8 has an upgrade that will bring a higher oil flow to the heads that would create a lower temperature overall.
It does have oil cooled heads and there is a radiator on the front of the frame to cool the oil.
Great Job on the overlay with your gauges and data. Very nice.
As far as the engine temp issue. I have a 2016 Road Glide Ultra. In 85° temps in the summer my head temp runs around 270° with engine around 200°. If I'm setting at the lights it will run up to 300° before the cooling fans kick on.
Yes, your bike seems to be running warm for sure. But I'm.not sure what the engine temp specs are for an M8 compared to a 103 HO Big Twin?
I do run the Dyno Jet too with a K&N filter and Tab Performance Zombie baffles with the cats deleted in the head pipe. Hope this helps for a comparison. Though mine is not an M8. Good Luck Brother 👍
Thanks Gary I appreciate the info on the 103 temps for comparison.
270 To. 300 is normal. Keep your feet on the floor boards. It actually looks like the bike is running pretty good.
Thanks Dom. I am okay with it pushing 300 but I have had it push past 310 with feet up on the highway pegs for less than 10 minutes going down the highway. Part of me agrees, just leave the feet down, but at the same time Harley sells an engine guard for the Heritage so I would assume this shouldn’t be happening in general. Just an interesting thing I came across.
All that talk about you did the over-lays is greek to me, but it's cool...ha ha
It'll be interesting to see how you finally resolve the issue.
Thanks.
lol Thanks for appreciating it Eric.
I would first check if it is the actual temp or a calculation and where the temp is being record from. I’d then check the temp with infrared temp gauge as well to see how the numbers compare . It could be your leg is blocking some of the air flow where the reading is taking place.
I would imagine it is the actual temp from the sensor since the DynoJet is tapped into the OBD port and is how it tunes the bike through Auto Tune. It certainly could be airflow and the sensor which is located at the rear cylinder I believe.
Make sure your oil cooler has been blasted with a power washer, I had work done to my at the dealership a 2 times I had to bring it back do to rocker box gasket oil leaks and it ran down and caked on and into the oil cooler. This work was done straight off the show room floor brand new. So this thing was making unusual noises from the get go and it was a softail, so I had no temp gage but I knew something was up and the dealership kept telling me that its fine. 🙄 nope 9,000 miles later I took the power washer to the backside of the oil cooler and blasted nothing but oil and crude from the Finn’s . Grrrrrrrr and the fact that it picks up EVERYTHING the front wheel throws at it as well
Cool to cold weather is my favorite kind of riding
Cool overlay! Dang those temps on the highway with airflow. I take it the engine temp is oil temp? Is the head temp the rear head? I am assuming yes to both.
300 degrees has destroyed the oil. You pretty much need to change the oil after running that hot. Probably why Harley is water cooling the heads on new bikes.
Thanks for the update Dan... it’s an interesting conundrum...how the position of legs affects engine temp! Maybe we should fit fairing lowers (like Ultra’s) to our Heritages to direct consistent air flow? Just kidding! That would look shit.. I think there is only two solutions.... remove the Dynojet display... or... don’t put your feet on the rear pegs.... I’ve reduced the amount on time my feet are on the rear pegs... cheers👍🇦🇺
Yeah I didn’t have the engine guard on until recently so I used the rear pegs on longer rides just to stretch my legs a bit. I do know there is a bit of a mind F seeing the numbers and I could just remove the Dynojet and run out of sight out of mind but I am too much of a data guy for that. Appreciate the comment and the views for sure. Thanks!! Ride safe.
You had to say that Mike, now I'm curious to see the results of using a set of cheap hard lowers like motorcycle mick used. Could possibly direct enough air that leg position doesn't matter anymore.
I was just noticing this today while riding with the PV hooked up. My ET was between 310 and 330 most of the time, with my feet on the highway pegs. It was about 97F though.
The humidity here in Georgia is killer on the engine temperatures
I used to live in Atlanta, that humidity is no joke.
That's damn hot. It's probably normal for the engine/bike design/displacement...Maybe. I hope you use a good oil. I wonder how much airflow the oil cooler gets and how efficient it is? On top of that you have the front jug blocking the back jug. Awesome overlays, BTW. Glad your mac is back in form.
I use Motul so I think the oil is more than fine. I think the fender blocks 90% of the airflow over that stock oil cooler and maybe that’s part of the problem but who knows. It is nice to have the old trusty Mac back for sure.
@@GearsGadgets Yeah, the airflow makes a big difference. My bike has the cooler out front and I know oil temps are a lot lower. 220-30 at most and I don't have the RT-P fan.
Engine temps around 275 F should be the base line. With engine at highway speeds I am not surprised to see 300F as long as your oil is not braking you should be OK
From the little I've read about M8 engine and head temperatures, what you're experiencing is normal. I think temperature sensor location has a lot to do with the temperatures you are getting. Obviously, changing the position of your feet/legs is affecting air flow through the engine, thus the difference in temperatures. My suggestion is to just ride it like you stole it.
I appreciate that input. The answer very well might just be “It is what it is”
This is interesting! Lets see what the problem/fix will be!!
Thanks PSP. I will be trying to figure it out.
Many law enforcement agencies that employ Harleys already know they can't leave them running when they make a traffic stop, because the OLD TECHNOLOGY engines require them to be moving to cool properly. That brings up the issue of also running down the battery by leaving the emergency lights on while stopped - without a kick starter. It turns out that Harleys are also more expensive to maintain that BMW police motors overall, just because of the OLD TECHNOLOGY. It's like maintaining a 50 year old tractor (for a Harley) as opposed to the BMW, which is oil cooled. Harley has outlived its innovative lifespan and needs to move on to more modern technology.
Makes sense
Got the data overlays, video, audio, music, and a “future you” all synced up… and got this video out today. Determination thy name is Dan!!
Looks like the oil cooler can go back on in the next video.
Thanks Jay. I will probably be putting the oil cooler back on but I think I might leave it off and run some more tests when temps start getting higher here in the summer again. I dont want to have to keep taking it off lol.
Lmao. You mean taking the same part on and off, over and over again isn’t supposed to happen?
I have a 2017 Trike with a tank lift kit and a oil cooler my front head is 216 cylinder 218 rear head is 234 cylinder 228 and oil temp is 184 that's on a 84 degree day.Harley Davidson says normal temp is 230 its in the shop manual.
Feet on floor boards may be increasing drag and the tune is increasing fuel mix to air and thus cooling the engine.
Possibly
And I was worried about my M8 reaching 320 degrees head temp. I’ll check my PV for running oil temp.
Been waiting for this one! 🙂
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@GearsGadgets I did! Thanks Dan.
Wow! After watching this I kept checking my powervison to see my engine temp on a 200 mile ride from Las Vegas NV to seligman AZ, on a 99 degree day. Engine temp on my 2015 road glide ultra (twin cooled) stayed at 208 degrees. Bike has a 117 twincam stage 4.
needs to be above water boiling for proper lubrication
Not a mechanic but I would have to say The wind drag because you’re spreading your legs making for a larger surface area could be Inadvertently causing the engine to have to run a little harder causing the engine temperature to rise
Yeah that does seem to make some sense but it just seems strange to me that the temps would rise THAT much at 80 mph in 65 degree temps. Certainly interesting.
What is the oil temperature at , that is what I consider , 225 is where it should be
I don’t have an oil temp gauge.
That is strange. I have a built engine(tc) and only run 270 temp on the fwy in 115 temp summer. And my bike runs around 240 to 250 in the winter around 40 to 50 temps fwy driving . I would have to agree with sumping .
Interesting. I will keep that in mind. I kind of dismissed sumping but it is possible I guess.
@@GearsGadgets I have seen issues with loose piston oilers.
Very interesting. I have no input on what would cause this, but I enjoyed the video.
Off topic question, for your cardo did you use the clamp mount or the 3m? I got a rf1200 for Christmas and going to be switching my cardo over soon!
I used the clamp mount for the cardo on the RF1200 and it works great.
@@GearsGadgets awesome thanks! Really looking forward to the rf1200!
DK Customs has some decent temperature studies to see. Thaey are a proponent of Mighty Might engine cooling fans.
I will check them out
Heat is the problem with 80% of engines in the shop for vibration, knocking, or poor idle problems.
Most Harley specs read 230 to 255 is proper running temperature. Buy a water cooled Honda if you live in areas of heavy, slow traffic and ride the Harley out on the highway.
I just put a FP3 on my Street Glide S. For the first time after setting a factory flash, I kept the software on to monitor temp. I noticed temp kept creeping up throughout the 30 minute trip. It topped out at 321 which I’m hoping is the head temp, but even that is way high from what all the shop monkeys seem to say here on youtube, so I’m confused now that I see yours running at 320 or higher. I do have highway pegs and I use them (mostly left side). Right side gets too hot for my leg. Anyway, I don’t know what to do, or if I should do anything.
I have a 2019 heritage with the FP3 tuner. I mount the phone so I can read the temp and other things I monitor. S couple of weeks ago I noticed when I put my feet on the mustache guard the temp shot up 12 degrees. Feet on floorboard temp slowly goes down. Repeating this numerous times with same result. I guess it’s just enough to block some air. Kinda strange
it FUNNELS THE AIR WITH THE FEET DOWN -- its not the blocking with the feet up that 's the issue
Where are the sensors located? No doubt the legs are directing airflow. I wonder if the sensor is getting cooled off more than the rest of the engine by the leg movement?
The sensor is at the top of the rear cylinder to the best of my knowledge.
Have you had any contacts with John Maxwell over in Georgia? Try reaching out to him...he’s a Harley mechanic and has an M8 Heritage.
I don’t like to bother John too often but I did just reach out after reading your comment. I guess it makes sense in this instance.
Love Jugs will resolve overheating issues...
The temp outside is a huge difference...not sure of the mathematics, but temp out side vs. wind speed plays a huge difference in temp to rider....and bike. Also, looks like it was overcast skies...no direct sun on the machine... I'd say my mental health....and go to HD dealer... I think??? A tech can zero in on issue...and use the dealership visit as a "secret shopper" experience..
Thank you for the update.. let's see how you do!
Thanks Keith. I am not sure what direction I go from here but I think I am going to fish around the CZcams community comments for some ideas.
I’m concerned about the piston oilers. I’ve seen info that they can plug up or not even by torqued down properly. 2018 road glide special.
Positioning of your legs affect airflow to engine so maybe it is affecting the oil temperature by that some how I hope you understand what I'm thinking and if I'm wrong or incorrect and don't know what I'm saying could you let me know please
Anything is possible, at this point in time I have no clue. I will put out another video with progress at some point.
Is the drop because your legs are causing air turbulence around the engine?
It is very possible.
Good vid I am also suffering from over heat that sometimes reaches 350f, what tool are you using to present all these numbers on the screen?
Power vision tuner you cam get all the data you need real time
@@backcountrybluegrass4770 thanks
Legs can be directing more air when your foot is down interesting 🧐
Are you using a high octane fuel 93 , and are you using ethanol free fuel , 93 octane ethanol free fuel is all I use in my 2019 CVO Street Glide
I use 93 but not ethanol free. Cant easily find ethanol free fuel here and I ride too much to make it a common event to go fuel up somewhere across town.
Your engine temp is way too hot for being only 65 degrees outside. Such temps are common for Harleys because they just run hot, but it is not good for the engine at all to be at those temperatures, especially once the engine has a lot of mileage on it. Constantly running at those temps will hurt the engine over time cause premature wear on internal components, also will get a bunch of leak down as the miles pile on. Should check out DK Custom Products. They have a plethora of informational videos on CZcams regarding heat and they also sell a number of parts that help reduce heat. You should also get an oil temperature reading. Optimally, oil temp should never be over 230 degrees under any circumstances. Your 300 degree plus engine temps imply that the oil is most likely well over 230 degrees. On my Softail with a Twin Cam 96 (which Twin Cams generally run much hotter than M8s), my engine temp will be at about 200 and oil temp around 180 on a 65 degree day. I’ve added some goodies to reduce heat.
1:51 did he just take his both hands off at 80mph?! OMG!
Your a video genius
Mabe you’re in california, when in doubt go higher up. I have 110, its too hot for califonia
Stop worrying so much and just ride that MFr.. you ain't gonna break it that easily!
Try doing 90 mph for hours on end across Texas in August in 115+ degree weather with it, then get back to us if you feel an "overheating" condition.
Well it is a $20,000 motorcycle so I am a LITTLE interested in temps and longevity so I don’t blow it up and have a $2,000 paper weight. I do 90 mph across Arizona when its 115+ so I am familiar. Also that is why I am concerned about 300+ degree temps when its 65 degrees out. Ride safe my friend.
Book says 230
Have you tried a tank lift to get more air over the heads?
I might try that next.
@@GearsGadgets From what I understand, HD has already lifted their tanks on the Heritage and Deluxe. I know my deluxe tank looks higher than previous HD's.
Not a rocket science. Just
Position your feet in a way that will deflect the wind towards your engine fins.
Not rocket science but is super interesting for 99.99999% of people who are riding with highway pegs on a crash bar without a Dynojet and have no clue they are overheating their engine in the process.
I know this video is two years old but my 2019 Milwaukee 8 107 touring model here in Tennessee in the summertime can get really humid. My temperatures usually run to 284 to 300° according to my PV tuner ! Hell I thought something was wrong with my bike. Talk to the dealership about it and they said that was normal for touring bikes the Milwaukee eight does run a lot hotter. It just baffles me that I’m stupid enough to still have three Harley Davidson’s air cooled pay that kind of money for a bike when I could pay half of that for a water cooled bike but it just don’t sound as damn cool ! Guess idiot glutton for punishment!! I believe @260°
oil viscosity start breaking down
My Indian Scout runs around 174 and when it reaches 204 in traffic the fan kicks in and the temps drop back down to 174.
Love juggs will help
Harley says optimum temperature is 230 F. Your running way too hot. Of course Harley doesn’t post the temp any more in their current literature.
Dan I would like to send you a email but I cannot seem to do it from Patreon. I also have something that I use and would like to send you one.
Papa P.
Interesting. You are the first to know but I am going to be firing up CZcams Memberships soon and ending Patreon because its just too much to manage two different platforms. Anyhow, shoot me an email to dan@gearsandgadgets.co
I bet your legs on the foot boards deflects air onto your engine
Yeah that makes the most amount of sense to me too.
I can't stand these people that do a vid talking through there helmet 👎blah blah blah
I can’t stand people who voluntarily watch a video and complain like whiny entitled children. Just go watch something else, that’s how CZcams works.
Air cooled motor runs hot? Who knew hey......
Running hot vs thermal runaway when simply moving your feet to a position that would be considered a normal running condition. Two different conversations brother. I appreciate your attempt at oversimplification and lack of context though. #FakeNews