THE 400-HP QUESTION-4.6L 2V MOD FORD-ALL MOTOR VS SUPERCHARGED-WHAT IS THE BEST ROUTE FOR HP? BOTH?
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2023
- HOW CAN I ADD 140 HP TO MY 4.6L 2V MODULAR FORD? IS A NON-PI MOTOR BETTER THAN A PI MOTOR? WHICH ONE MAKES MORE POWER, PI VS NON PI? HOW MUCH POWER ARE HEADS, CAM AND INTAKE WORTH ON 4.6L 2V MOTOR? CAN YOU RUN PI HEADS ON A NON-PI SHORTBLOCK? HOW MUCH POWER IS A BLOWER WORTH? HOW MUCH BOOST CAN I RUN ON MY 4.6L 2V? HOW MUCH EXTRA BOOST IS A PULLEY WORTH? WILL A BIGGER THROTTLE BODY ADD BOOST AND POWER? HOW MUCH POWER ARE 2V CAMS WORTH ON A BOOSTED 4.6L? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED AN ALL-MOTOR 4.6L 2V BUILD THAT MADE OVER 400 HP TO A SUPERCHARGED VERSION THAT MADE IDENTICAL POWER. WHICH ONE WOULD YOU CHOOSE? WHY CAN'T I COMBINE THE TWO FOR THE ULTIMATE IN POWER RPRODUCTION? (HINT...I DID THAT)
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I’ll take both for 800 Richard…
😂
Take it or leave it😂
I miss Alex
This is exactly what I am trying to choose between for my T45 swapped 1998 Crown Vic. Love it!
Boost! No question.... I have a 03 Vic with a T45..... So nice choice!
Exactly why I’m watching but 03 merc
Boost for sure some extra torque to pull all those doors down the road
Fascinating 😎👍🏻
My MG came from the factory with a 2V 4.6 as standard so I’ve always wondered what I could achieve without going down the forced induction route.
It only makes around 245 bhp so drives nicely but needs significantly more in a 1700 kg car 👍🏻
400ish always struck me as a more suitable figure to make the car perform how I’d like.
You could add a blower without the forced intake and rely on the larger belt, you'd probably want to seal the hood though.
Like the other commenters a 5.4L 2v with trick flow heads and their cams and intercooled kenne bell test would be amazing. Big Bang !
Thanks Man
Fun Video !
Love to see a 5.4 2V natural truck build. Lots of us still out there.
There are none left with spark plug threads in the heads or timing chain guides that haven't disentegrated. Such a trash motor
@cshumard513 not everyone fires sparkplug from their 5.4 2v.. and not everyone's timing chain guides fall apart.
I'm waiting for the 6.8 build
Would like to see too though probably won't ever do it. I blew a plug on my f250 a few years back. Fixed it with a $15 Helicoil brand repair kit from NAPA and torqued the remaining 7 plugs to 30 ft/lbs. Haven't had a problem since.
@@robertrio1164 bought a 6.8, used lightning rods and pistons balanced together and reassembled with mmr timing guides oil pump etc. Waiting for my f250 to give up the ghost to install with twin turbosa
Whichever’s cheaper and most reliable! ❤
To be realistic these are both probably going to be dead reliable. The supercharged one will (probably) be cheaper and obviously have a better torque curve, but the NA one will more than likely be more efficient.
I remember way back when I built my engine SHM was the only game for cams, which was soon followed by Crower. Very few options. Looks like those Comp Cams are really showing some nice gains. I added FR500 cams to my engine, but have no idea what gains were to be had with them.
Would love to see a 4.6 DOHC version
Blower, no questions asked.
Better EVERYWHERE on the curves.
Makes for a better daily driver than the N/A combo.
How so? Would running boost be more relaible then having it n/a?
@@Frosty16423 about the same reliability with a good tune
My stock 4.6 explorer was knocking so got a guy using my block and pi heads and intake and I think ima ask him to build it now lol , already doing timing chain and oil pump and water pump and seals, might do crank, cams and valves too
Just bought a 99 Town Car.. this should be great
Makes me want to do this to my Grand Marquis
First 👍's up R H thank you for sharing 😅
I built a similar n/a motor some years ago except slightly smaller cam and a stroker. I never knew what power it made but the goal was a minimum of 400hp and 400 torque.
There was a nascar intake on ebay, if your willing get a custom hood.
Boost all day it's just so easy to just to bolt on.I have a 02 gt with comp cams forged pistons with a vortech making 6 lbs it's definitely a fun little car to drive.Looks like I definitely need a pulley swap tho😊
There's alot of mechanics dying to build exhaust turbos these days.
I like the idea of a 4.6 (or even 5.4) 2v with 400 hp naturally aspirated.
I don't know why but it reminds me of racing SOHC engines from the past (60's/70's) and even some DOHC's that actually had just 2 valves per cylinder too.
if only it were this easy to make 400 whp these videos make me optimistic then i remember drivetrain loss
@@ReeshaRacing Yeah, I think the only way to get at least 400 hp at the wheels with 2-valve heads and without resorting to boost or nitrous...would be with extra displacement, a lot of work on the heads to improve airflow and much, much higher rpm's.
But to be honest, I don't know if they can reach that power level, even in this condition.
@@Roddy_Zehthere’s a video somewhere on CZcams of a ‘01 bullitt that has a stroked 5.3 2v that makes (if I remember correctly) 393 rwhp. Without drive train loss that close to 450 on motor n/a. Now that 5.3 ain’t cheap and they could have that much power for cheaper w/a supercharger.
@@Boatanchorperformance That's interesting to know!! And certainly more than enough power to have plenty of fun. 👏🏻👀
Even though it's much easier to reach these power levels with boost, sometimes the joy comes with _not_ taking the easier route. 😁
@@ReeshaRacingyou can get 400 at the wheels and well over 450tq by using this same setup but with small chamber twisted wedge heads and raise the compression to 12 to 1. Use forged internals and it will be super reliable to. Good rods is the main thing.
I would pick the blower because of less problems with torque converter stall ect!
NA for sure if I have to choose that blower. I think once that little blower got hot it would pull timing and make even less power.
For just a daily driver/ fun car I dont know why anyone wouldnt go for the SC. I hate when people say weight like they are a damn professional racer and need every oz taken out of the car. People who say NA should drive both before they decide
Fair enough
At this stage in my life, I'd go with the na setup. It won't make power until redline and will be a bitch to drive in traffic but it would stand out from the boost crowd and be hilarious at recline....assuming a stupid cam
Mark VIII/Teksid short block with a PI top end is the scrap yard screamer build. You should try it maybe.
Do 4v blocks work with 2v heads???
What would be the budget on a PI 2v n/a 350-375 hp?
I would love to bolt on a Ford Racing supercharger on my 2004 Mustang GT 4.6 2V, but they are hard to find. Does anyone have any insite on that ?
I’d love to see you check out the Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Modular heads in the future, I’ve been very interested in them recently and think it’d be a great way to make more horsepower on an NA 2V 4.6 or 5.4. They flow better than most of the 4V heads for Mod motors and will beat all of them when ported. I’d also be interested in seeing dyno graphs of different cams in stock heads and those heads.
I want the TF heads from Modular Head shop so bad. 4.6 is as common as the 350 chev so i dont know why 4.6 Ford is so expensive in aftermarket parts.
@CobraR1993 Modulars simply have a significantly smaller market. It's all about supply and demand. SBCs have been around for 70 years by this point, the Modular Ford has 30 years and just never caught on quite the same.
@@CobraR1993the TF heads are completely different heads, they redesigned the chambers and out of the box are more than you could ever port factory heads. They also made it so the cam caps are replaceable. I mean I get why they are expensive but at the same time I feel like they made their money and they would sell a lot more now if they significantly reduced the price. The 2v hasn't been in a vehicle for 12 years? The 4.6 anyway... I mean for what they are asking you can buy a coyote! Considering their stock heads will outflow trick flows maxed out!
@@commonsenseisdeadin2024 are they that freaking expensive?
@@absolute357 all in, over 4 grand
Hello. I have 03 f150 with 2v 4.6, I’m wondering if a lightning supercharger fits on it. Has anybody seen this done.
Why choose between bolt on vs boost? Always go with both!
I always love to see the vortech si trim supercharger content. . As I run one on my daily.
Did you go polished typhoon and 85mm throttle body?
@@aaron6268 no.
I have a chevy 350 bored .030" over. Small trick flow heads. Baby roller cam. Estimated 406hp@5500 naturally aspirated. I'm fueling with a 4bbl 4150 holley sniper. I added a vortech centrifugal supercharger. I've seen a peak of 9.5psi of boost. Boost is great. Why choose bolt ons vs boost when you can add boost to a bolt-on motor?
Anyone pushing safe nitious to line your carb?
Super charged. Stock drivability can drive thousands of miles at a time with the A/C on. I had one so I know… and I never seen a 99-04 GT make less that 380 to the tires in a automatic 400to the tires on a low boost pump gas tune.
Do a na 5.4!!! Na 5.4 -4.6 heads supercharged hci. Intake elbows. Etc etc. 5.4 2v
Does the blower have higher BSFC? That might be a big deal to street drivers
Do a 2V 5.4 with TF heads and a whipple 2.9 blower on a lightning intake/IC setup.
Boost fan here! You know what I want to see... turbo magnum! turbo magnum! turbo magnum!
Can you do the power tests with the truck intake manifold. There are a lot of us that have trucks and not mustangs. It’d be nice to see what the gains are like with the truck manifold.
truck intake video is up
180cc twisted wedge if you have dish pistons, chrome shortys and 390gt exhaust tips should get you exactly at 400.
Can you do the same with 5.4l block
Great video , how about doing the same tests on a 5.4 2v and compare to 4.6 2v
I'd like to see that
Being as though I have them both and want to see options
@@waynebaker5720 man me too , I have a 03 mustang with a built 4.6 N/A and a 5.4 on a engine stand saving up for a set of heads and cans , I know the 2v can not make high numbers as cheap as other engines but to me I can’t move past the low end torque and the lovely sound of a cammed 2v
@@keithwilson8624 oh you lucky dog you .
Hey check out street cars video 2v turbo takes on the world; and while it wasn't quite the top dog out of the bunch she held its own making the both of us proud. That 2v probably had a few contemplating and maybe going back to the drawing board I'm sure.
Is the ford racing a m112?
im hoping for 330-350 wheel na for my 12:3 pi headed 2v
Where do you even find a Ford Racing Supercharger kit? Can't even find them these days. Seems like a nice mild upgrade for a daily driver especially one like my 2002 Grand Marquis. I need it to merge with even just Carollas these days! 😂
I haven't seen one for sale in years
@@richardholdener1727 Me either. It seems like such a simple piece of kit to slap on I'm kind of surprised the aftermarket hasn't caught up. I know a lot of 4.6 2v guys that just want that simple set up. Don't get much more simple than top mount Supercharger and injectors with a tune and still have a reliable daily car.
I vote for a n/a build up
I have a 97 f150 4x4 4.6 romeo would it make any sense to try to get 400hp just wondering new at performance game thx great vids an info
it is hard to get 400 hp na
I'm so conflicted about these 2v motors. They do what they're designed to do what they're meant to do very well, but as a car fanatic you really want to run it out to 6500 and hear it sing. Unfortunately, the heads on these things just aren't built to do that. You've done a bunch of good 4.6 videos, and you do a great job with them...but it's not cheap to make them run so well. All in all, I'd love to get excited about them but I continue to have mixed feelings.
It’s basically just a luxury motor like a big block caddy, can perform but you’re dragging it there if it doesn’t have displacement on its side, Ford failed to make a motor that basically is only slightly outperforming the basic pushrod Windsor
@@benjaminwatson7868 I think that's the basic problem. Not much growth potential in it.
@@johnbarker5009 im a little late to the video I had a 06 crown vic with a muffler delete side exit Exhaust Anna air filter with factory tune. And on a good day. I could keep up with a 5.7 charger in first gear. It was a fun car to do drit road drifting and I've race other vehicles and lost but all in all I love the 4.6 I beat the sh.t out of my crown vic for 2 years only thing to go was a/c and the starter twice😂
Nothing turns on like a roots blown motor
I would take a NA all day, the torque would be more predictable and easier to modulate the accelerator, less maintenance and parts. I don’t want to hit torque from a supercharger and surprise you with tons of torque.
Have you guys made a video of putting 4v heads on a 2v or 3v motor? I have an 08 f150 4.6 I'd like to play with. Someone on market place mentioned putting 4v heads on 2v with some tuning.
easier to just get a 4V motor from the junkyard
@richardholdener1727 yes and no. The 4v heads were already rebuilt and cammed. That's why I asked about a swap.
Would a NA 400 hp to replace a regular 260 hp 4.6L in California be allowed? Will it pass the smog test? I have a 2000 Ford Mustang GT project car that I'm trying to upgrade. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
you need to check with the manufacturers of the parts to see if they are Cali legal
What supercharger is being used in this video?? Ive never seen a blower underneath the intake runners like that!?
Ford racing
Where can I get a supercharger like that for my 2001 4.6?
👍
Where to put alternator when the blower sits right where the alternator goes?
Mounts backwards. Kenne bell has great instructions.
If only you can find that intake
On the both combination that you tested, was that test ran on pump gas or did it require race gas?
at higher boost we ran 100/91 mix
@@richardholdener1727 ok, thank you for the reply
N/a for sure. But then add a blower to the 400 n/a combo.
How much boost can you run on a stock 2v short block with stock piston ring gaps? Engine longevity is important on a street engine.....
there is no "how Much Boost", there is only how much ring temp
My NA 4.6 puts out about 600blft of braking torque... 5500rpm to stall, in a second. "zero road traction too 100% traction". normal 280lbft stock block
No it doesnt. Youd have to be in the 800-900hp range for that to be possible, which it isnt. The craziest na 4.6 ive ever seen made 520whp 400tq on alcohol.
Where is a good source for npi pistons to put in a pi motor?
Thanks Bob
junkyard
Supercharged!!!!
Whats the part number for that supercharger? Ive looked all over for it online.
no longer avail
NA = No parasitic loses and lighter. For competition is much better and the throttle response is greater.
Both!
2:59 for the hybrid NA
I would supercharge a non-PI. They are really cheap right now.
Were those stock injectors? If so, what would happen with HP using 39+ lb injectors?
not stock injectors-you need enough fuel to support the power level
In your experience, on a completly stock mach 1 4v, what would be the max hp you would feel comfortable with at the wheels in 93 octane? 5 speed car.
if it is completely stock, then won't it make stock HP?
@@richardholdener1727Sorry, I completely left out that Im buying a vortech supercharger for it.
I want to see a 2v 4.6 with the trick flow heads ported, tork tech 2800 tvs blower and cams. I want to see the actual potential of the motor. 2v are always over looked and slept on. Then punch the motor out to 5.3 aluminum. We can call it a 327
watch the 4.6l 2V vids with the ported heads, cams and Kenne Bell
PD blower for me.
I’ve heard that the factory shortblock can only handle roughly 450hp. Currently, I have a ‘96 GT with trickflow 44cc track heat heads with stage 1 cams, Hooker Blackheart LT headers and OR X-Pipe (Made 330rwhp/340rwtq). Probably a dumb question but there’s probably no way I could run 6 or more psi from a KB on this setup without the internals being upgraded correct?
we made 623 hp with a stock bottom end-it will make much more
Sounds like you need about 15 psi to me
@@richardholdener1727 would a set of Manley -18cc pistons and a set of gen2 coyote rods with factory 6 bolt crankshaft work well?
never tried coyote rods-but all that should work
@@richardholdener1727 thanks I’ll go that route and see what it can make at 14psi hopefully somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-550 rwhp
400hp through a plastic intake is a healthy combo
😂
You said you could have used the 550lift pi cams.. why didnt you? Just curious.
I tested every Comp cam
@@richardholdener1727 Yes, I meant why didn't you use the bigger pi 550 lift cams instead of the non pi cams in this build..
Is it actually possible to get a 2 valve 4.6 to 400 wheel horsepower? I see most people lucky to get 300. N/A that is.
I've never seen 400 whp from an na 4.6l 2V-but it is possible. Would require more compression and different intake manifold with more rpm
NA pew, pew 💥💥
Would the 400 supercharged setup with stock internals run reliably?
I would never run a Vortech SC personally. They make a ton of power, but are unreliable in my experience. Customer support sucks ass and they don't warrant their products when the superchargers melt themselves. Otherwise great video!
I ran my Vortech for 85000 miles including racing in the Silver State 9 times-they are reliable
@richardholdener1727 Nice! Did you ever tow with it or was it just for drag races and cruising? I pulled a 5000 trailer, and the V3Si melted its own bearing cage and sucked in the intake seal.
It takes a lot to make power with 4.6 2v .
Did u have the heads decked as well?
only a clean up cut
Where can I get that blower from?
no longer avail
why do you run the non pi cams for ptv?
the duration determines the P-V, but the non PI cams have lower lift
NA for me. Lighter, cheaper, less complicated and instant response.
The supercharged combo would be much more responsive vs the na version, essentially the same price too
a turbo setup with a proper sized turbo would be very responsive as well
5.4 2v with 4.6 pi heads.? Do it
Obviously SuperChg best street fun. EZ modification, makes good tq low
So what is 95 4.6 in a mercury cougar .. I'm guessing none PI ?
non PI
Im interested in the idea of 4v heads on a 5.4 rotating assembly. Anyone know anything about this?
Might consider just going to get a 5.4l 4v from the junkyard to start with
@richardholdener1727 well damn. My I build miatas not ford's is showing. Tyvm for the info
@richardholdener1727 ah, iron block, that's why. Aluminum block is important to me. 5.4 rotating assembly in an intech 4.6 block and heads?
I'm currently interested most in the Mercedes m113 5.4 as a potential swap for my miata. Light, decent power, cheap, a bell housing for a cd009 is already available. Just worried about sump clearance.
no on the 5.4l internals in a 4.6l block
Where can I find the supercharger for sale?
no longer avail
What kind of supercharger is this?
it was a PD roots from Ford Racing-no longer available
How does the stock internals like the sc application
fine
@@richardholdener1727 ok just wondering ive have a v3 yet to tune it. But always read 400 is the max
since this combo made 623 hp-we know that 400-hp nonsense is a myth
Thank you
Where did you find the blower? I’ve never seen one of that around 😂
NO LONGER AVAIL-TEST WAS RUN LONG AGO
Blower all the way. Why, because I have wanted a metal intake manifold for while but no one has them. None will fit under the hood on my Town Cars. Ugh!
Im a n/a guy unless the motor is a Buick 231 v6
Supercharged has more low end tq
is this rear wheel hp and if so what dyno were you using?
flywheel-you can see the photos of the motor on the engine dyno
Put a m90 on a 4.3
pi puny improvements lol
Iv heard pulling 400 youll eat the bottom end up or get rod knock. These motors are boat anchors and its really annnoying that you have to spend double to make it go. They sound great and are tough when they're stock but man unless your a wizard mechanic and can do all this shit yourself its kinda pointless cause itll bankrupt you. Might as well just swap the motor or buy an ls. Not to mention thst t45 can't handle 400 horse at all. I think it would be pressed to handle 300
we have run over 700 hp with the stock bottom end-so the 400-hp thing is a myth
@@richardholdener1727 oh really? I had no idea. I have an npi block with pi heads and iv wanted to push my platform as much as I can but anytime I suggest boost my mechanic always says it'll cook the motor. I'll take your advice over his though I think you know your shit provided who you are
all 400 hp motor, then I slap a turbo on it.
Supercharger every time.
Get rid of that air filter on the vortech , I run a turbo guard on my proCharger
air filters should be mandatory-it did not change the power
So many "questioms".
what are your questioms?
Just put a 150 shot on it and call it a day
Na
Or gt45 and keep about 1500$ 😂
your engine dyno is super happy idc what you say no 2v on the planet is doing this power with heads cams and a tune its not making 400 plus crank without a power adder such as boost, your the only person on the planet with these results and thats because there bs.
you know so very little
i love your videos and i watch them alot, but ive never had a 4.6 last over 450 wheel.@@richardholdener1727