I remember seeing a post right after his release where a Smash player was like "KAZUYA HAS [X] FRAMES OF INTANGIBILITY ON EWGF" or some other move and a Tekken player responded "he's your problem now" and I just laugh every time I think about it.
Tekken players shouldn't say that because KOF and Street Fighter players can literally say the same thing about Geese and Akuma who are Top 4 in the game
@@neckapples3526 I feel that, kazuya just isn't the same online, part in due to the fact you can have up to 5 frames of input delay on top of everything else
Hell I have been trying to do his Ewgf since release annnnnd as a Tekken player I actually find it kinda clunky in comparison. Negative edging it is also difficult due to jab just being a hold 😅
Once again I am reminded of what Sakurai said in the Kazuya presentation. Sakurai said that he was surprisingly quite weak, so they buffed him mid development. What was he like?!
@@Havoc_279 one was the second most broken character in the game after Bayo and ruined doubles for everyone the other is just really good that's what i've gathered from the comparison atleast.
I've said this before to someone else but the obsession with basically back porting characters with all their mechanics was the worst idea Sakurai has ever had
The only thing kind of balancing him out is that he's slow (which can be negated by his wave dash), he has kind of short range (which can also be negated by his wave dash) and he has a pretty bad air game
Larry you don’t understand, kazuya needs it. He needs the intangibility, he needs the super armor on his smash attacks, he needs the mini tough guy, he needs rage drive, he needs an auto combo to 40% that you can sometimes di out of, and he especially needs electric wind god fist. Because he has a 7 frame jump squat that never feels like it’s there
Honestly Steve is “well designed”. His problem is that basically they put him on steroids. Reduce the damage, knock back, and remove some of his broken glitches and he probably ends up being balanced and fun to play against.
@89-Muhamad Ravyanto I know, but the only thing that stopped Tekken characters in T7 was Akuma. Yall got luck you only got Ken and Ryu. Count your blessings, it could of been worse
I'm 50% yes and no for Akuma. Yes cuz it would be so awesome. No cuz aside from having another Ryu clone Akuma would be so strong and scary to fight against.
Btw Sakurai said his design philosophy for the certain chars was to give the person playing them the feeling that the char is broken From that perspective, I think kazuya was really well designed actually
If we are talking about competitive design this yes 100%. But if we're talking about designing off of the game/series that the character comes from? It's Ganondorf, I'm tired of all these people who say that he's fine as is.
Just because Ganondorf isn't totally ported over from his game doesn't make him poorly designed. Fox is just as unfaithful given his moveset doesn't come from any of his games.
Nintendo has had 3 chances to fix Ganon's special moves and somehow blew it every time. There's enough games and material to give him specials he does in a Zelda game. All 4 specials should change.
A lot of characters have combos that look broken, but if you DI a certain way they just don't work. It really feels like that doesn't apply to Kazuya. Unless you're willing to mess up your control stick anyway.
Not to mention his insane weight, tough guy, a 20% taunt that he can combo into and the strongest reflector in the game on a random a$$ kick is just unnecessary😭 and EWGF honestly might be the best move in the game💀💀
Demons wrath is just a meme. You will never get hit by it unless Kazuya does a funny combo into his final smash which is only possible in casual matches lol.
Very faithful to his game, but in order to be ported he really needed to lose some gimmicks somewhere. His primary downside is the difficulty in playing him, but the reward for overcoming that is absolutely overkill.
From what ive seen, its like how Akuma is in tekken 7. He is, in many people's eyes, the best character in the game, with the best tools and damage in the game. However, he is also one of if not the hardest character in the game, and very few people can use him to his full ability.
The only real problems imo are him having the strongest reflector in the game, let alone having a reflector to begin with, and EWGF having intangibility frames. Neither of those are in Tekken. As for the rest, he feels about the same as he does in Tekken, and that's what they were aiming for. At most, they could make EWGF's demand be an actual just-frame instead of it having 2 frames of leniency.
This guy is wanting EWGF to be even harder to pull off when most play in smash is seen online? Miss me with that bullshit, let them do that when they put rollback in the game 🤷🏽♂️
@DropkicktheDecepticon sakurai makes characters to feel like they come from their original game first, then a smash character second. A lot of characters that feel like “smash” characters are because in their games they don’t do too much physical fighting, hence sonic, captain falcon, Fire Embelm characters, and etc
@@beastfulboy They won't ever put rollback in Smash, rollback gets harder to do the more things have to use it at once, and that includes characters and items. And i doubt that having two separate netcodes just for that is a good idea or realistically possible.
@@beastfulboy1) EWGF is easy as fuck right now. Making it harder isn’t going to make it much worse, and the fact that it’s a 2F window for a move that should basically kills every time it lands is dumb. 2) Delay based netcode does not make raw inputs harder. EWGF isn’t any harder online than it is offline. Now capitalizing off of it and reading DI is harder, but the input itself is still an easy 2F window. Also, since when should games be balanced around shit netcode? Smash is still clearly designed for couch play, and tournaments/official events are always in-person.
You forgot the throw that kills anyone with a below average recovery for free, every move either killing super early or comboing super late, amazing recovery especially for a fighting game character and zero risk up b out of shield
Would be really interested to hear your thoughts on risk:reward for different characters! Kazuya is BS but I think his risk:reward is better designed than Steve/Sonic.
I don't know about WORST designed, I think he was made pretty well with the limitations of his base game. He's just designed for a genre that's much harder than platform fighters (i.e. regular fighters). He's like if you used Doomguy in a schmup
@@gj4312 I mean kinda, but not really. You kinda forgot about his invincible dash. That is a total game changer. Otherwise you would be right. And literally everyone makes mistakes, even Leo and Proto. And against Kazuya, you are likely to die when you do make one.
counterpoint: steve sonic. I'm not gonna say kazuya is incredibly designed, but once you learn the matchup and know what to look out for, it's way better
You clearly haven't watched enough of his matches. Definitely not something you can throw out repeatedly at high level. Especially against the wrong match up
@@BakingSoda4U shield was broken in that set, I remember watching that live, Only thing Steve could have done is mash your controller hard and pray you got out of stun
@@MarsOjeda The match in question happened on game 3 of Winners Finals of the Gimvitational. The interaction begins on minute 11:14 of that set. You can clearly see Acola panicked and tried to shield EWGF twice. That's not Kazuya nor Riddles fault, it was simply Acola making a very poor choice. Lucina can do the same with an uncharged neutral b against someone who tries to shield that move twice in a row. Same with Bowser's down-B, whose first hit actually shieldstuns the opponent to make sure the second hit lands. I guess we should ban Bowser now. It simply funny how people can make such biased arguments just to try and push their anti-Kazuya agenda.
@@BakingSoda4U homie ur talking about the fully charged smash attack in ur first comment, not the entire interaction, Nowhere did I mention anything about anti Kazuya or anything, you literally said and I quote "To a fully charged smash attack even an impaired person could have dodged. I guess ganon is broken now because of his up tilt." No where did you mention discussing the interaction that led up to that moment, I just said "shield was broken in that set, I remember watching that live, Only thing Steve could have done is mash your controller hard and pray you got out of stun" Which is true, His shield was broken, He can only mash out of Shield Stun.
@@MarsOjeda You are the one who brought up the match where that interaction happened when you said "shield was broken in that set". That's why I mentioned said set in more detail. I was certainly talking about the move regardless of the setup that led to that f-smash because that's where the criticism of the OP tries to focus, but since you brought up Steve's broken shield as a way to say that getting hit was unavoidable, I had to remind you that getting into that situation was Acola's fault. Comments like the one made by "Melting" are often used as a backhanded way of saying that Kazuya is broken. That's how you have to approach said comments. And your observation about the supposed "unavoidability" of the f-smash is invalidated by the fact that Acola could have just avoided the second ewgf by walking towards the ledge or simply stalling offstage for a bit to regain shield health, which he didn't, and now you guys are (willingly or not) spousing skewed arguments in order to paint Kazuya as some ban-worthy threat.
Yeah I’d say so. Balancing the characters in a fighting game so one isn’t given such a massive advantage over everyone else is a pretty important thing since it can just break the game and make everyone else feel useless. Like, why lick literally any other character if this one guy can just effortlessly knock them out of the park with minimal effort? Bad game balance is always just bad game design. It just happens to be totally localized into one specific character here, so it’s bad character design.
I’d say Steve is the most ambitious, but Kazuya is easily the most poorly designed. Steve could kill you off of one mistake, Kazuya will kill you off of one mistake.
@@nathanlevesque7812 riddles himself has talked about the influence of mixing up the di lines, and how to impact the combo's potency But yes, kaz does get a lot of free bs
Every other fighting game category calls them "ToD" or "Touch of Death" combos or just "death combos" sometimes and no, he was already damaged and still didn't kill, he was left at like 1 HP and got hard read after than which lead to his death. It was indeed OP af but not nearly as much as you, or most people thought and/or think. It also mattered a lot that Akuma was at 1 HP because he got the maximum damage from his Rage Art (super). The problem with Akuma was barely the damage, Mishimas can also deal tons of damage (though they can hardly ever ToD) but the problem was that he was designed as a "2D character", meaning he had mechanics from 2D fighting games (and specifically the Street Fighter series which he came from) and was in many ways like Ryu and Ken in smash. He had access to a system that none else did, the cancel system and special moves. Also like Ryu and Ken he had the armored unblockable move, the focus attack but this was not really a problem by itself. The biggest threat was his ability to use meter, not for supers (using it on super is most of the time a waste), but for the FADC technique which allowed him to cancel special moves and let him do crazy combos, but unlike Mishimas, he didn't just have certain moves that can "launch" (for Tekken launch means start a combo, since 90% of combo starter launch you in the air) but instead he could make any cancelable move a launcher by canceling into his DP (Shoryuken) and then canceling it with the FADC. On top of that he was the only character in Tekken that could effectively jump over High moves and you can see it on the famous clip you mentioned too, this was later nerfed since to counter this in 2D games you have to use an "anti-air" which is inexistent in Tekken since only Akuma could jump that high. Also he jumps fast unlike every other character, but that was less of a problem. Release Akuma in Tekken was nothing like Kazuya in smash, all Kazuya has is power and partial invincibility (some times full) he still lacks air mobility (aka one of the most important aspects of the game) and range, Akuma broke all the fundamentals of Tekken, he could jump, combo out of anything, use completely invincible moves (NONE in Tekken has such, not even Rage Arts, the supers don't have complete invincibility), use projectiles, deal damage on block (chip damage) and perhaps more stuff I forget. He was locked under a skill ceiling but broke all the fundamentals of the game, Kazuya is locked under a skill ceiling but has just strong power.
@@georgegkoumas5026 I'm pro Not banning Kazuya and I'm am fully aware of the difference between touch of death and 0 to death. I also know that about the tekken mechanic which boost your damage when you are at rage drive. Beautifully written. But I'm not saying Akuma in tekken is the same as kazuya in smash. Sorry if I made it seem that way
Let’s not forget some of these moves have super armor and tough guy (one of said moves being a COMMAND GRAB that kills). And he also is pretty heavy and has a reflect. Kazuya truly got that $5.99 piece combo
As a kazuya main, I struggle to pull EWGF so if somebody can pull that consistently, they deserve it lol. You gotta time your input to match the frame rate for it
I think people forget that the offset to be able to bring out the "broken" nature of the character is the amount of work that's required to put into this character to really make the most of this character. He's hardly a "pick up and play" type of character, and to be able to make him as strong as he notoriously is, most people I know have to put tons of time into the character and are still actively learning things to improve their game
The problem seems to be that, if you design a character to be more accurate to their original game like Kazuya, Steve, and even Min Min, they can break core game philosophies of Smash and either be unfair to play against, not fun to play, or be kazuya with a rage drive command grab with invincibility that grabs through shield (which to my knowledge, is extremely better than Terry's Go-sauce Buster Wolf which can be shielded). Terry was also an example close to this, but terry didn't need an entire online page to explain his inputs.
He’s a 3D/2D traditional fighting game character with like 190 moves, inputs, specials, grabs, command grabs, zoning tools and all, crammed into a 2D/3D platform party fighting game where every character has a MAXIMUM of like 20-30 moves
You‘re right Larry. Especially in how this design FORCES you to camp Kazuya and play very, very lame. He can be dealt with well if you platform camp above him and basically never engage. And that‘s horrible.
kazuya is a broken ass menace. kazuya is like if a mid-weight character got superbuffed to MURDER anyone. i love kazuya, but holy s*** sakurai, really powerful.
Kazuya is literally Smash 4 Bayo lite. He’s got a 100% trip move, three stun moves, mini tough guy, super armor on smash attacks, ridiculous shield damage that can lead to rather consistent shield breaks, a far ranging projectile, the strongest reflector in the game, a rather consistent spike, good aerials, a decent up-b out of shield, two command grabs with one sending you at a nasty angle and the other becoming OP because they had to give him a comeback mechanic as if he weren’t the comeback character, a good recovery that many characters envy, a heavy weight, intangibility or invincibility on several attacks, good edge guarding, and a intangible dash. For me Ultimate was pretty balanced until Fighters Pass 2 when they added Min Min (thankfully got somewhat of a nerf), Aegis, Kazuya, Steve, and Sora.
Sakurai when giving the Kazuya presentation: We initially had him slower, but thought it was too slow. Translation: We initially had him balanced, but had to make him more DLC-like.
DLC characters need 1000 different ways to instantly win neutral obviously, throw on an RNG insta kill give em a gun, let them mine for diamonds I guess. Just make sure at every point in the game they are winning neutral
In terms of faithfulness to his Tekken counterpart, he’s probably the best designed character in the game. But in terms of how he translates into Smash, he’s probably the worst specifically because of how alienated he is in terms of execution. You don’t really need to know how to do RARs, wavebounces, IDJs, or anything like that. You instead need to practice EWGFs, CDCs, and all this other tech that is exclusive to Kazuya. You essentially have to learn an entirely different game when you play Kazuya, and that’s not great considering Ultimate is supposed to be the Smash game that bridges the gap between casual and competitive the best.
Yes, because a comeback mechanic involving getting to 100% on A HEAVY is a great idea for one of the most OP heavies in the game. As a bowser player who gets juggled by everyone, playing against Kazyua is especially infuriating.
@@teethcoat4274 Kazuya ain’t a problem. Look at the top Kazuya player (spoiler alert it’s Riddles). He’s not super consistent in rankings ans his gameplay is pure skill. People just trash Kazuya because they’re just mad someone took time to learn their character.
![[SSBU] Smash's Strongest Projectile](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B5XaIXyhKfk/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember seeing a post right after his release where a Smash player was like "KAZUYA HAS [X] FRAMES OF INTANGIBILITY ON EWGF" or some other move and a Tekken player responded "he's your problem now" and I just laugh every time I think about it.
its funny tho cause kazuya is like, mid asf in tekken
Tekken players shouldn't say that because KOF and Street Fighter players can literally say the same thing about Geese and Akuma who are Top 4 in the game
Kazuya is mid/low tier in tekken
@@RustyRants he is on short tournament formats but not on deathmatches
@@RustyRants mid in tekken isnt really bad, he's a strong char just gated behind execution to get his gameplan going
You don’t understand, it’s a risk reward system.
Risk: You lose $5
Reward: You can bully anyone online
Good luck pulling out Kazuya combos online.
@@neckapples3526 I feel that, kazuya just isn't the same online, part in due to the fact you can have up to 5 frames of input delay on top of everything else
😂
Hell I have been trying to do his Ewgf since release annnnnd as a Tekken player I actually find it kinda clunky in comparison. Negative edging it is also difficult due to jab just being a hold 😅
You also have to spend like 50 plus hours labbing ewgf to do it on command so its not that easy
Once again I am reminded of what Sakurai said in the Kazuya presentation. Sakurai said that he was surprisingly quite weak, so they buffed him mid development.
What was he like?!
If he was weaker, I imagine he was more like Cloud now vs Smash4 Cloud.
@@ThatOneWeirdFlex this guy thinks ultimate cloud is weak...
@@Havoc_279 He’s comparing Smash 4 Cloud to Ultimate Cloud which, yeah, he got hard nerfed. It’s a comparison, not a direct statement.
@@tlkfanrwbyfan8716 I mean, both versions top at tournaments...
@@Havoc_279 one was the second most broken character in the game after Bayo and ruined doubles for everyone the other is just really good that's what i've gathered from the comparison atleast.
“I’m not gonna sugarcoat it”
EWGF spam
_DAMNNNN_
Job application
I only see the kiryu version of this when I see it. And now I want kiryu and majima in smash
💪(➡️⭐️⬇️↘️💥)
He is also the ONLY man in 20 years of smash history to have a BACK TILT
Same with Terry having 2 different side specials
Bro is unfamiliar with Toon Link
He has three different back tilts one in each angle
A back tilt is a bad thing because you can't use your moves in the opposite direction when the auto turn around faces you the wrong way
@@IjoyI yeah you just gotta let it auto turn before you input so it exposes you sometimes
Steve: *Slowly sneaks away*
Steve is pretty well designed he's just overtuned. I think his moveset and animations and flow is very faithful adaptation to smash.
Sonic having built in circle camping is still the worst
Little mac too but in the opposite way
Brawl metaknight, Sm4sh Bayo. Maybe if they made Smash Ultimate squad strike then everyone wont main Kazuya and Aegis.
@@trombonegamer14 damn that's a really good opinion. I agree with that fo sho
My peanut brain was thinking "man's shirtless in half of his skins, how bad looking are his pants?!" before being lectured on Kazuya combos
He'll give you a good close up look on his pants designs with how much and how long he kicks you in the face
This made me realize none of the in game clips shown has any of the shirtless skins. Neat.
It’s good thing he’s hard af to learn. I don’t think I could survive fighting good Kazuyas every day on Elite Smash
There are lots of high ranked Kazuya's in the high part of elite smash, it's one of the most common characters actually
In terms of how he plays compared to tekken, he is extremely well designed. As a smash character, not so much
I've said this before to someone else but the obsession with basically back porting characters with all their mechanics was the worst idea Sakurai has ever had
But tough guy, a 20% taunt that he can combo into and the strongest reflector in the game on a random a$$ kick is just unnecessary😭
I've always had this beautiful/twisted dream of sonic having the air drift that matches his speed. Hed easily be top 10 in the game imo
@@sydbrown310 my brother in christ sonic is already top 3/top 5 at worst
Yeah he needs to be buffed ong
He's fair. Just don't get hit. Or grabbed. Or don't let him hit your shield. And don't be offstage.
Just don't play the game man, that's how you beat Kazuya lmao
He's like Smash 4 Bayo's little brother!
@@Shmicah1235 get good
The only thing kind of balancing him out is that he's slow (which can be negated by his wave dash), he has kind of short range (which can also be negated by his wave dash) and he has a pretty bad air game
Or just don't ready up. Chances are you're already in winners. Let someone else deal with him and hey, 2nd place ain't bad.
He was designed to be a raid boss then someone got the bright idea to make him playable.
No
fun fact: electric wind god fist is abbreviated to EWGF because that's the noise you make when it hits you
If we're being honest, taking the term badly designed literally. Min Min and Sonic literally exist
Olimar should probably be in there too
@@theillusionist1494 nah
@@Rspknlikeab0ssxd he has basically no startup animations because of how small his limbs are
leave min min outta this
@@semenslayer_ heeeeeeeell naw lmao. You will be called out
Thank God only 2 people are good with this character
there’s a few more apart from riddles and tea but still
@@VibrantRL it’s just riddles and Tea
@@carldalorddon’t forget ferps
The big 3 Riddles Tea and Acola (ferps, axiom xl and tarik as the smaller big 3)
@@michaeldavis9826 I only know that guy because of the platform tech, does he get 57th at majors or something?
Man was a 50/50 character in tekken be glad you don't have hell sweeps
my bad for safely attacking you once kazuya, i clearly deserve taking a true 50% worth of damage from zero as punishment
If you’re getting punished it wasn’t safe
@@keromora what do words even mean anymore?
@@denali1566 Safe means you can’t be punished. Punished means it wasn’t safe.
@@keromora yeah man. I was agreeing with you.
Larry you don’t understand, kazuya needs it. He needs the intangibility, he needs the super armor on his smash attacks, he needs the mini tough guy, he needs rage drive, he needs an auto combo to 40% that you can sometimes di out of, and he especially needs electric wind god fist.
Because he has a 7 frame jump squat that never feels like it’s there
Facts
He needs a reflector imo
@@krusher181 yeah they should’ve given him a powerful reflector, and a decent projectile to boot…
You forgot the down smash and shield breakers
Okay your just joking I was about to say boy what do you mean? 😂
Brawl Meta Knight “Well I-“
Smash 4 Bayo: “It’s ok my friend. They know nothing of true power”
Steve looking from the corner: "yes yes let him get all the attention"
Meanwhile everyone talks about Steve techs and bans...
Steve is well designed, he just has a glitch and a few things that could be nerfed, but that's all.
Honestly Steve is “well designed”. His problem is that basically they put him on steroids. Reduce the damage, knock back, and remove some of his broken glitches and he probably ends up being balanced and fun to play against.
Don't forget the fact that if he infinites you online long enough, you can get banned for inactivity because you literally can't move. :)
DI out bruh
@@Tongo2087just dont get hit
Skill issue git gud lmao
@@Tongo2087 his combos cant get di'd which I find funny
Most of his attacks deal 30%+ and start killing at 39% lmao how tf are you getting combo'd that long 😂😂
Be glad yall didn't get Akuma
bro, akuma was SF not tekken
@89-Muhamad Ravyanto I know, but the only thing that stopped Tekken characters in T7 was Akuma. Yall got luck you only got Ken and Ryu. Count your blessings, it could of been worse
I'm 50% yes and no for Akuma.
Yes cuz it would be so awesome.
No cuz aside from having another Ryu clone Akuma would be so strong and scary to fight against.
@@bog4612 akuma is far more aggressive than ryu in fighting style, also has better movement and more energy based attacks
@@IRONFIST-oo8yh he's OP all the time! czcams.com/video/q81ptFSA4mk/video.html
POSITIVE ON SHIELD? Yeah this is an ultimate moment
More of a Tekken moment
what da heeeelllll
Wdym, every fighting game gives you + frames
His electric gives you plus on block in Tekken as well
@@pathtracker4944 ultimate players dont play fighting games
Btw Sakurai said his design philosophy for the certain chars was to give the person playing them the feeling that the char is broken
From that perspective, I think kazuya was really well designed actually
Can't wait for 100% accurate Kazuya on Rivals of Aether
If we are talking about competitive design this yes 100%. But if we're talking about designing off of the game/series that the character comes from? It's Ganondorf, I'm tired of all these people who say that he's fine as is.
Just because Ganondorf isn't totally ported over from his game doesn't make him poorly designed. Fox is just as unfaithful given his moveset doesn't come from any of his games.
Imagine Fox being designed like Star Fox Adventures...
But he is really fun to play as
I've never heard anyone say he's fine, ever. He's fun, but still a semi-clone of a completely different character
Nintendo has had 3 chances to fix Ganon's special moves and somehow blew it every time. There's enough games and material to give him specials he does in a Zelda game. All 4 specials should change.
kazuya isn't gonna sugarcoat it anyways
what happened to everyone complaining about "luigi's combos are all totally inescapable"
do you guys miss the days of luigi being "broken" now?
A lot of characters have combos that look broken, but if you DI a certain way they just don't work. It really feels like that doesn't apply to Kazuya. Unless you're willing to mess up your control stick anyway.
Not to mention his insane weight, tough guy, a 20% taunt that he can combo into and the strongest reflector in the game on a random a$$ kick is just unnecessary😭 and EWGF honestly might be the best move in the game💀💀
both his taunt and reflector are trash, but yeah ewgf and tough guy are ridiculous. and his crouch dash kind of serves to negate his slow speed
You did not just mention his taunt as a plus LOLOLOL
Demons wrath is just a meme. You will never get hit by it unless Kazuya does a funny combo into his final smash which is only possible in casual matches lol.
People still complain about the taunt even though it's a terrible move and nobody uses it?
Very faithful to his game, but in order to be ported he really needed to lose some gimmicks somewhere. His primary downside is the difficulty in playing him, but the reward for overcoming that is absolutely overkill.
Sakurai, while designing kazuya:
ewgf, more like, idgaf
I don’t see Kazuya, I see intangible the character
His hit box is less active that a diabetic geriatric brain dead man without legs knees arms or any muscles for that matter
From what ive seen, its like how Akuma is in tekken 7. He is, in many people's eyes, the best character in the game, with the best tools and damage in the game. However, he is also one of if not the hardest character in the game, and very few people can use him to his full ability.
"Can zero to death anyone with 1 interaction."
Luigi🧍♂️
And pika. And pichu. And Falcon depending on DI. Sometimes Snake
Falco 🦅
And Kirby in some matchups
I find it funny that no one thought his weight was a problem when he first came out.
It does make him easier to combo, but he feels like Pikachu if he was a heavyweight on steroids.
I genuinely believe Kazuya is broken.
Playing VS him feels like old ice climbers with those cutscene combos
Kazuya is the incarnation of "just parry bro"
A perfect representation of him from his games 🤣
The only real problems imo are him having the strongest reflector in the game, let alone having a reflector to begin with, and EWGF having intangibility frames. Neither of those are in Tekken.
As for the rest, he feels about the same as he does in Tekken, and that's what they were aiming for. At most, they could make EWGF's demand be an actual just-frame instead of it having 2 frames of leniency.
His reflector kinda sucks though
This guy is wanting EWGF to be even harder to pull off when most play in smash is seen online? Miss me with that bullshit, let them do that when they put rollback in the game 🤷🏽♂️
@DropkicktheDecepticon sakurai makes characters to feel like they come from their original game first, then a smash character second. A lot of characters that feel like “smash” characters are because in their games they don’t do too much physical fighting, hence sonic, captain falcon, Fire Embelm characters, and etc
@@beastfulboy They won't ever put rollback in Smash, rollback gets harder to do the more things have to use it at once, and that includes characters and items. And i doubt that having two separate netcodes just for that is a good idea or realistically possible.
@@beastfulboy1) EWGF is easy as fuck right now. Making it harder isn’t going to make it much worse, and the fact that it’s a 2F window for a move that should basically kills every time it lands is dumb.
2) Delay based netcode does not make raw inputs harder. EWGF isn’t any harder online than it is offline. Now capitalizing off of it and reading DI is harder, but the input itself is still an easy 2F window. Also, since when should games be balanced around shit netcode? Smash is still clearly designed for couch play, and tournaments/official events are always in-person.
You forgot the throw that kills anyone with a below average recovery for free, every move either killing super early or comboing super late, amazing recovery especially for a fighting game character and zero risk up b out of shield
at least he's not steve
man came to smash and said 'ight, ya'll fighting on my terms now"
I don't know what you expected he's not gonna sugarcoat it
Let’s not mention Steve who can literally just place WALLS AND CEILINGS in midair
I don't see a problem with that really.
@@soulbounddoll1826 oh really? Placing platforms in a platformer game is not op?
@@Havoc_279 Powerful for sure, but overpowered...? It's close but I wouldn't say it's that powerful yet.
@SoulBoundDoll have you seen how top players use Steve? 💀
He isn't broken he's lore-accurate
Min min: *backs away slowly*
Smash 64 Kirby: I will literally juggle you and you can do nothing about it
Kazuya literally has a taunt that apparently does 20 percent
just dont get hit
Oh yeah bro just be good
And Luigi has a taunt that auto kills at ledge. Literally just don't get hit. If u do, it's ur fault
@@amaterasumaster8781 no literally, don’t get hit BY ANYTHING
@@KindaNoice i didn’t say just be good, just don’t get hit by the funny move 👍
Would be really interested to hear your thoughts on risk:reward for different characters! Kazuya is BS but I think his risk:reward is better designed than Steve/Sonic.
More importantly: He threw Kirby off a cliff.
I don't know about WORST designed, I think he was made pretty well with the limitations of his base game. He's just designed for a genre that's much harder than platform fighters (i.e. regular fighters). He's like if you used Doomguy in a schmup
If I didn't had a good match-up against Kazuya, I would've made a Twitter account just to complain about him
Who is it?
@@vick7868 PT and Cloud
Not many decent characters actually lose to kazuya and if you learn the mu, it is so hard to get in for kazuya. I think he's overrated af.
@@gj4312 I mean kinda, but not really.
You kinda forgot about his invincible dash. That is a total game changer. Otherwise you would be right.
And literally everyone makes mistakes, even Leo and Proto. And against Kazuya, you are likely to die when you do make one.
@Janno Meeuwessen PT is prolly even and Cloud outright loses. You might just be better playering them.
It is still fun fighting Kazuya. The challenge of beating this broken Devil Man is worth the suffering he brings.
“Electric is Kazuya’s best attack”
As it should be
It can be a good move, but _that_ good is a bit too much
@@Sticker_By_NCT_127electric shouldn't be just a good move it's supposed to be borderline broken.. always has been
counterpoint: steve sonic. I'm not gonna say kazuya is incredibly designed, but once you learn the matchup and know what to look out for, it's way better
Well this is definitely new news to me.
*smiles in getting robbed by Kazuya's left and right*
Yeah but sonic is just as bad as Kazuya and then you add on the fact that he’s not even faithful!
I was searching for this comment. Thank you
My girlfriend has no interest in ssb, and all of a sudden, she can now pick a character that is "fun to use."
Worst designed: ❌️
Unbalanced: ✅️
You can really tell that this character is badly designed if doing ewgf repeatedly is a viable option against top players( Looking at Tea)
Sound like a skill issue to me
You clearly haven't watched enough of his matches. Definitely not something you can throw out repeatedly at high level. Especially against the wrong match up
You forgot to mention the part where these combos require 10000 button presses and twisting your fingers in on themselves
Bro got killed at 15%
To a fully charged smash attack even an impaired person could have dodged. I guess ganon is broken now because of his up tilt.
@@BakingSoda4U shield was broken in that set, I remember watching that live, Only thing Steve could have done is mash your controller hard and pray you got out of stun
@@MarsOjeda The match in question happened on game 3 of Winners Finals of the Gimvitational. The interaction begins on minute 11:14 of that set. You can clearly see Acola panicked and tried to shield EWGF twice. That's not Kazuya nor Riddles fault, it was simply Acola making a very poor choice. Lucina can do the same with an uncharged neutral b against someone who tries to shield that move twice in a row. Same with Bowser's down-B, whose first hit actually shieldstuns the opponent to make sure the second hit lands. I guess we should ban Bowser now.
It simply funny how people can make such biased arguments just to try and push their anti-Kazuya agenda.
@@BakingSoda4U homie ur talking about the fully charged smash attack in ur first comment, not the entire interaction, Nowhere did I mention anything about anti Kazuya or anything, you literally said and I quote "To a fully charged smash attack even an impaired person could have dodged. I guess ganon is broken now because of his up tilt." No where did you mention discussing the interaction that led up to that moment, I just said "shield was broken in that set, I remember watching that live, Only thing Steve could have done is mash your controller hard and pray you got out of stun" Which is true, His shield was broken, He can only mash out of Shield Stun.
@@MarsOjeda You are the one who brought up the match where that interaction happened when you said "shield was broken in that set". That's why I mentioned said set in more detail. I was certainly talking about the move regardless of the setup that led to that f-smash because that's where the criticism of the OP tries to focus, but since you brought up Steve's broken shield as a way to say that getting hit was unavoidable, I had to remind you that getting into that situation was Acola's fault.
Comments like the one made by "Melting" are often used as a backhanded way of saying that Kazuya is broken. That's how you have to approach said comments. And your observation about the supposed "unavoidability" of the f-smash is invalidated by the fact that Acola could have just avoided the second ewgf by walking towards the ledge or simply stalling offstage for a bit to regain shield health, which he didn't, and now you guys are (willingly or not) spousing skewed arguments in order to paint Kazuya as some ban-worthy threat.
“Kazuya is the worst design character in the game.”
I mean…if worst is the new word for over powered? I’ll take it.
Yeah I’d say so. Balancing the characters in a fighting game so one isn’t given such a massive advantage over everyone else is a pretty important thing since it can just break the game and make everyone else feel useless. Like, why lick literally any other character if this one guy can just effortlessly knock them out of the park with minimal effort?
Bad game balance is always just bad game design. It just happens to be totally localized into one specific character here, so it’s bad character design.
A legend once said: "Don't get hit."
And people hate on Steve. Atleast Steve isn't flat out invincible or super armored on all his fucking moves
"This is the most balanced Smash game" Masahiro Sakurai
@@IRONFIST-oo8yh from what i can tell, not as broken as brawl meta knight
At least it’s not Brawl with 2 fighters that literally ran the meta and possibly the worst fighter in the entire series in Ganondorf.
And smash 4 bayo, melee jiggs, falco, fox, marth, shiek, falcon, peach, and iceies invalidating everyone, and broken ass Kirby and pika in 64
_steve has entered the chat_
I’d say Steve is the most ambitious, but Kazuya is easily the most poorly designed. Steve could kill you off of one mistake, Kazuya will kill you off of one mistake.
@@Skyfysh you realize its possible to escape kaz combos right? Just dont take him to fd because it makes his like 300 times easier
@@Balou_560 if the kazuya messes up yes, but there are barely any parts of the combos where the defender has any influence over the outcome
@@nathanlevesque7812 riddles himself has talked about the influence of mixing up the di lines, and how to impact the combo's potency
But yes, kaz does get a lot of free bs
Still not as bad. IT'S CLOSE though but not as bad as Kazuya.
That 0 to death reminded me of a match in tekken 7 where Akuma got his rage meter and dint hit his opponent once. He 0-death his entire HEALTH BAR
That’s called ToD, not 0-death
He actually survived, but with 1 hp and got parried. Still, insane combo that was
Every other fighting game category calls them "ToD" or "Touch of Death" combos or just "death combos" sometimes and no, he was already damaged and still didn't kill, he was left at like 1 HP and got hard read after than which lead to his death. It was indeed OP af but not nearly as much as you, or most people thought and/or think. It also mattered a lot that Akuma was at 1 HP because he got the maximum damage from his Rage Art (super).
The problem with Akuma was barely the damage, Mishimas can also deal tons of damage (though they can hardly ever ToD) but the problem was that he was designed as a "2D character", meaning he had mechanics from 2D fighting games (and specifically the Street Fighter series which he came from) and was in many ways like Ryu and Ken in smash. He had access to a system that none else did, the cancel system and special moves. Also like Ryu and Ken he had the armored unblockable move, the focus attack but this was not really a problem by itself. The biggest threat was his ability to use meter, not for supers (using it on super is most of the time a waste), but for the FADC technique which allowed him to cancel special moves and let him do crazy combos, but unlike Mishimas, he didn't just have certain moves that can "launch" (for Tekken launch means start a combo, since 90% of combo starter launch you in the air) but instead he could make any cancelable move a launcher by canceling into his DP (Shoryuken) and then canceling it with the FADC. On top of that he was the only character in Tekken that could effectively jump over High moves and you can see it on the famous clip you mentioned too, this was later nerfed since to counter this in 2D games you have to use an "anti-air" which is inexistent in Tekken since only Akuma could jump that high. Also he jumps fast unlike every other character, but that was less of a problem.
Release Akuma in Tekken was nothing like Kazuya in smash, all Kazuya has is power and partial invincibility (some times full) he still lacks air mobility (aka one of the most important aspects of the game) and range, Akuma broke all the fundamentals of Tekken, he could jump, combo out of anything, use completely invincible moves (NONE in Tekken has such, not even Rage Arts, the supers don't have complete invincibility), use projectiles, deal damage on block (chip damage) and perhaps more stuff I forget. He was locked under a skill ceiling but broke all the fundamentals of the game, Kazuya is locked under a skill ceiling but has just strong power.
@@georgegkoumas5026 I'm pro Not banning Kazuya and I'm am fully aware of the difference between touch of death and 0 to death. I also know that about the tekken mechanic which boost your damage when you are at rage drive.
Beautifully written. But I'm not saying Akuma in tekken is the same as kazuya in smash. Sorry if I made it seem that way
Also I thought that touch of death is not as well known by the smash community
I just don’t see how they don’t see it’s gonna be broken when they design shit like this 😂
Let’s not forget some of these moves have super armor and tough guy (one of said moves being a COMMAND GRAB that kills). And he also is pretty heavy and has a reflect.
Kazuya truly got that $5.99 piece combo
Ah yes, a combo character that kills early. That makes sense.
Shoulda just given him a glock which bypasses shield since they want to be balanced
Cpt Falcon
Then stop fighting him like any other smash character and fight him like he’s a Tekken character.
"B-But he's not top tier because his recovery is only slightly above decent!" ;-;
When kazuya does his down special with his rage his screen truns zoom special
As a kazuya main, I struggle to pull EWGF so if somebody can pull that consistently, they deserve it lol. You gotta time your input to match the frame rate for it
It’s surprisingly not that hard to do bro, you’ll get it
Min Min would like to have a quick word with you
Kazuya mains be:Hes not broken,he's lore Accurate.
Try not to fall asleep fighting a kazuya challenge impossible
I think people forget that the offset to be able to bring out the "broken" nature of the character is the amount of work that's required to put into this character to really make the most of this character. He's hardly a "pick up and play" type of character, and to be able to make him as strong as he notoriously is, most people I know have to put tons of time into the character and are still actively learning things to improve their game
"Worst designed" is a high bar considering we have Ganon, Sonic, and a walking screaming slot machine running around.
Imagine getting hit out of your shield and your first reaction is to do a spacing back air against kazuya lmfao
It’s almost like most DLC characters get insane privilege in their designs because you have to pay for them.
Kazuya players after effortlessly winning neutral again be like "But he's difficult to learn 😭😭"
Let's not forget his attacks are the only attacks in the game that negate your ability to tech out of combos. Steve wishes he was this unfair.
Steve kinda is that unfair.
" *_He's not broken, he's lore accurated_* "
smashers when a mishima does mishima things:
If you play Kazuya and you get camped and timed out, you deserve it. You couldn’t pay me to stand next to Kazuya.
The problem seems to be that, if you design a character to be more accurate to their original game like Kazuya, Steve, and even Min Min, they can break core game philosophies of Smash and either be unfair to play against, not fun to play, or be kazuya with a rage drive command grab with invincibility that grabs through shield (which to my knowledge, is extremely better than Terry's Go-sauce Buster Wolf which can be shielded). Terry was also an example close to this, but terry didn't need an entire online page to explain his inputs.
He’s a 3D/2D traditional fighting game character with like 190 moves, inputs, specials, grabs, command grabs, zoning tools and all, crammed into a 2D/3D platform party fighting game where every character has a MAXIMUM of like 20-30 moves
At least Kazuya doesn't turn into a ball for 1/2 of his moveset
Lmaoo plus having a trash ass final smash
And has the same color for all his alternate costumes
You‘re right Larry. Especially in how this design FORCES you to camp Kazuya and play very, very lame. He can be dealt with well if you platform camp above him and basically never engage.
And that‘s horrible.
I have to jump camp against him most of the time.😓
kazuya is a broken ass menace. kazuya is like if a mid-weight character got superbuffed to MURDER anyone. i love kazuya, but holy s*** sakurai, really powerful.
Kazuya is literally Smash 4 Bayo lite. He’s got a 100% trip move, three stun moves, mini tough guy, super armor on smash attacks, ridiculous shield damage that can lead to rather consistent shield breaks, a far ranging projectile, the strongest reflector in the game, a rather consistent spike, good aerials, a decent up-b out of shield, two command grabs with one sending you at a nasty angle and the other becoming OP because they had to give him a comeback mechanic as if he weren’t the comeback character, a good recovery that many characters envy, a heavy weight, intangibility or invincibility on several attacks, good edge guarding, and a intangible dash. For me Ultimate was pretty balanced until Fighters Pass 2 when they added Min Min (thankfully got somewhat of a nerf), Aegis, Kazuya, Steve, and Sora.
Sakurai when giving the Kazuya presentation: We initially had him slower, but thought it was too slow.
Translation: We initially had him balanced, but had to make him more DLC-like.
DLC characters need 1000 different ways to instantly win neutral obviously, throw on an RNG insta kill give em a gun, let them mine for diamonds I guess. Just make sure at every point in the game they are winning neutral
@@theveganduolingobird7349 Thwack has an extremely low chance to kill, and if it doesn't then you lose neutral
@@skylandersfan6954 but it still can insta kill that’s the erm point?
@@theveganduolingobird7349 Yeah, and so does Judge yet no one uses that. Point being?
@@skylandersfan6954 judge is strong but it doesn’t literally erase tou
In terms of faithfulness to his Tekken counterpart, he’s probably the best designed character in the game.
But in terms of how he translates into Smash, he’s probably the worst specifically because of how alienated he is in terms of execution. You don’t really need to know how to do RARs, wavebounces, IDJs, or anything like that. You instead need to practice EWGFs, CDCs, and all this other tech that is exclusive to Kazuya. You essentially have to learn an entirely different game when you play Kazuya, and that’s not great considering Ultimate is supposed to be the Smash game that bridges the gap between casual and competitive the best.
two words: doctor mario
Yes, because a comeback mechanic involving getting to 100% on A HEAVY is a great idea for one of the most OP heavies in the game. As a bowser player who gets juggled by everyone, playing against Kazyua is especially infuriating.
Bro got combo’d too hard on ladder lol
Bro, Larry don't lose on ladder he's a pro lmao. And Kazuya isn't even as problematic online as in tourneys, which is the context this video is for
@@teethcoat4274 Kazuya ain’t a problem. Look at the top Kazuya player (spoiler alert it’s Riddles). He’s not super consistent in rankings ans his gameplay is pure skill. People just trash Kazuya because they’re just mad someone took time to learn their character.
Smash fans when the fighting game character plays like a fighting game character
this comment would be valid if every character in smash also played like a normal fighting game character.
The problem is that everybody else doesn't