YES! You CAN build $5000 HiFi Speakers for UNDER $500 DIY vs HiFi
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2022
- #hifi #diyhifi #diyaudio
Can you really save thousands by DIY your own speakers? YES, you can! DIY vs HiFi
Tang Band W5-1138smf: parts-express.sjv.io/yRKdov
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Boenicke W5: bit.ly/3rtBNWI
Spatial Audio Sapphire M3: bit.ly/35GAknx
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I go through these virtual build comparisons often…too often. This is a good eye opener, great info.
Those speakers have absolutely no reason for costing that much money and I feel sorry for the poor fools that have bought them.
I don't, nobody twisted their arms.
Barnum was 100% correct.
Agreed
@@hino823 it's a pair. Just like the costs I was figuring.
You can't just add up the cost of materials and say that it's overpriced. You know how much the wood of a great violin costs? Next to nothing. You pay for the craftsmanship and the amazing sound that is able to be achieved because of the skill and technical prowess of the maker. Similarly, great speakers are designed and engineered. And sometimes knowledge and know-how is passed along and developed. these are some to the things that you pay for - other peoples time, energy, work, inspiration. Goes WAY more than cost of materials. There's also the cost of marketing, paying workers/benefits, rent, machinery, etc....This is just scratching the surface!
@@777galamian You assume that I am ignorant. I assure you that I am not.
I get so excited when I see a new video from this channel this is my passion so it just makes my day that much better
Would love to see you make an old school wide baffle floorstander like the JBL L100 or KEH Model 5 with modern components. Big 10 or 12" woofer with mid and tweeter. Even better if fully modern with DSP crossover but with that old school look.
That's kinda what I just built but a little different design I raised the woofer more near the middle of enclosure and I ended raising them off the floor by 2" I also bought the crossover already made from Dayton it my first speaker build and I didn't really think much about i just ordered some parts from Dayton audio and I made a really nice 2 way I wish I added a mid range it's sounds really clear and deep with bass from the 10" woofer and I'm really happy considering I got the wood for free the components cost around $150 and I have a pair of speakers better than anything than anything close to that price let's put it that way they sound great and I can't wait to build my next project because I did no research I just guessed lol
Looks like bang for the buck can vary significantly in HiFi. I bought a pair of Gamut Phi5 12 years ago for a bit over 3000€ (probably around 4000 in today's money) and when I guesstimated how much it would cost me to replicate those, I found that the drivers alone would set me back nearly 500€, so I'm guessing maybe 800€ for everything, which I honestly think is quite a lot considering that parts cost can obviously only be a fraction of the retail price.
You are absolutely correct. Some HiFi brands are much better value.
Yeah, that's actually proper hifi and not a money grab like this tiny company who's using random shit in their bookshelves.
I just finished my first DIY speakers, they are the CSS Torri. It was a lot of fun! I want to do their TDX 2 towers next. I’m using the Emotiva Basx TA1 integrated amp. The set up punches way above its weight dollar wise!
Hey @chandlerlofton6536, have you had experience with other speakers? I wonder how the Torii’s compare to some other common speakers to get an idea of what they are like.
I had some oak boxes I turned into speakers / end-tables. I bought an instruction book from Radio Shack on how to build them for the right drivers. It contained all of the formulations I needed. Then, I ordered my tweeters, mid-ranges, and bass drivers with the proper crossover along with the connectors. They both sounded great and looked better than any item you could buy. Plus, it is rugged enough to be furniture or moved to another location.
I believe with hard work (elbow grease and many hours of listening) and planning and lots of testing, yes, it can work everytime and sometimes turn out better than a mass marketed overpriced speaker. After 200 or so speakers I've owned, I built my own to my liking, and turned out to be my favorites I've ever heard, to me the best I've heard for my tastes in my opinion, but took a long time to call it complete. Used a JBL 2226hpl pro driver strictly for the bottom end and has good mid bass properties also ( very efficient, massive magnet and voice coil, very high power handling, and can get very deep in the right cabinet. Midrange I finally decided on a focal audiom 7k, likes to be crossed over lower than most other mids due to peaks around 3k but incredible tone and character when dialed in, due to the large ess heil amt tweeters able to cross over very low if needed it wasn't a problem, top end is open baffle, bottom end is rear ported and nicely designed inside (transmission line type), also have port plugs if wanted when close to a wall. Biamped, big power hooked up on bottom end and smooth clean power up top. To me they are all I'll ever need, about a grand and some change total, they are heavy at nearly 100 pounds each, but they check all the boxes for anything, movies or music, truly full range.
My biggest issue is making enclosures. I think I have a good plan. Gonna try it this week.
Really nice to see the actual run through.
Recently came across a similar case. The Ophidian Minimo 2 retails for more than $1000, yet it only contains the Dayton TCP115 and some $40 Seas dome tweeter (don't remember the part nr). I just finished a pair of small bookshelves also using the TCP115 for $150 all in all.
All these "boutique" speaker manufacturers using 10 dollar woofers. Crazy.
aboat 2 years I was going to build this speaker but changed my mind because of the cnc work involved think I have a pair of those mid drivers .ended up building a pair of Mark audio a pair 4” mini ported speakers. Also built a set of ls35a clones used mfd need to put them in birch I have a obsession. With building I feel that if you don’t sell a speaker set you can build them for your one enjoyment.
Thanks for all of your help for us dyi's!
The sapphire's tweeter has been tweaked btw and is ferro-fluid cooled
Thank you, I did not come across that in my research. I appreciate that. I knew they tweaked the woofers, so it makes sense they also tweaked the tweeter.
@@Toid - check out Ron's review from New Record Day- thorough review, interesting details
@@randylneisen4824 thank you for finding and sharing this information other than just saying "it is so".
I went to a house with an el cheapo Lg all in one amp and speaker combo with the same large woofer on the side as this and I was blown away at how good it sounded and I have never heard a system without a dedicated sub that scaled the bass so well down to lower volumes and generally had a balanced full sound....Im very surprised almost nobody has continued this design.
With the right skills and equipment, it is possible to build speakers that compete with the ridiculously expensive ones out there. But for a lot of us, the simple, proven, designs and flat pack kits are the limit of our tools and skills. For us, it is more of a fun pastime and being able to say that you built the speaker rather than ending up with one that cost 1/10th what it should have. But every day people come out with new and better designs for us to build.
It's first time I saw a tweeter facing backward. I like to see contents about this, too.
10 time mark-up! That rings a bell after reading comments here. Good insight!
Definitive Technology has been doing this for years now. Take a look at any of their speakers with powered subwoofers and they all should have this on them. It's an interesting concept, but definitely can be fickle to placement.
@@Toid, thanks for info. It was an interesting installation of twetters on the back of the cabinet. It sounds similar to Bose concept that you are going to listen to sound coming to you in a theatre. A direct sound plus reflected sound coming to your ears later. I'm pretty sure it's fickle to locate those tweeters in the back of the cabinet. But I'm impressed. Unfortunately, youtube videos didn't have any audio samples I could hear. Pity.😁
@@spritual_enlightenment I used to actually own some definitive technology towers that had some in them. I believe definitive technology recommended at least three feet from the back wall. But positioning and distance from the back wall and outside walls is really key to how they sounded.
@@Toid, I see. Thank U for additional info. Very appreciated.
This just proves the insane amount of markup that goes into most high-end equipment, i.e. the retail selling price vs. the actual cost to make/build it! The only thing that this doesn't account for is all of the original time, research and development, and careful design work and attention to finishing details that go into an original high-end build...
If you were to actually count all of that too, as if your time involved in building these to the exact same design and look, and fit and finish, especially with the unique box shape and all, then you'd be out many more hundreds or even thousands of dollars, depending on how long it took you to build and finish the boxes, etc. yourself, and of course how much you consider your many hours of time to be worth per hour invested in a project like this...
You're right. Designing a speaker can take a lot of time and effort. And if you don't know what you're doing, that's one of the great ways to start with a kit or plans. Allow someone else to do that work for you. But the video does show you, what a lot of people know already, a well-designed DIY plan can rival that of the same value store-bought brand.
@@Toid the speakers you've shown have a complex form internally, so yes, you can buy the components at said price, but Alas Building the same enclosure with normal of the shelf components is very complicated and most likely Will cost a lot in specialized equipment...
I would like to build tower speakers around 84" In height with 4 to 5 12" woofers that create Incredible hard hitting mid bass in each box with line array tweeters and horn midrange. Any thoughts on design and speakers you would use for this setup? Thanks.
Awesome, I build a few in my time!
Hi There, May I ask what the DCR values you used for the
coils?
I want to DIY a concentric speaker design like kef or Elac , only ones I’ve seen are Ayima and a very old Dayton. Any recommendations for a newer high quality one?
Your channel is AMAZING! I've been learning so much. I'm very curious though. I love sound engineering and such. I'm also a very good woodworker. But some of the Boenicke speakers on there website have these wood looking drivers on the larger models? Along with some really cool wood accents right on the speaker or driver itself? Is there someway to do that or somewhere you can put wood on a driver or speaker? In order to make it look a certain way? For example the Loudspeaker W8 has that thing going on and also the W11 looks super cool! How am I able to do that?
Would be great sharing with us where to buy housing, plans etc to fully construct the speakers from A-Z.
Thx for sharing.
Peter
Is there a 3D model of the speaker to get by? Also W8 looks interesting... any idea where to get 3D model for that one? Thanks...
please make a video for ref 8004 subwoofers !! I need 2 of them but on a budget. however im very handy. I just don't understand what drivers and such are best.
Love the glasses too
Is there a way if you looked at a pioneer hpm-100 to replicate this speaker with modern speakers/crossovers?
Could you provide a plan of the enclosure?
Hello, i check your palns for sell but i didnt find for this speakers on your page. Can i buy for this speaker build plan?
Okay that is all and good, but have you actually attempted (or are you willing to attempt) making a DIY Boenicke W5. Looks like there are a lot of specialized features going into the W5. Would be very interested in seeing you go through the process, then a A/B comparison if you can actually get a loaner pair.
Yes, let's see you actially build one or a pair.
This is a quite simplistic analysis of the Boenicke but I understand it’s catchy headline. I had the upper version of the W5 for 5 years. During that time I tried Harbeth, Raidho and Dynaudio HS. None had the magic of those little speakers. I regret selling them. Agree that the drivers are cheap but the sound and finishing is not. If I knew someone who knows how to do the cabinets I’d definitely do it
How where the highs?
If you want to build a business like Boenicke then you charge what they charge and it becomes less about money and more about brand. That's business 101 and hasn't changed in 500 years. But what I love about this video is it's very inspiring and practical: yes, I can build a one-off set of solid speakers that could sound as good as a powerhouse niche brand like Boenicke, even factoring in "paying" myself a good wage of $50/hour, even factoring in tool purchases. Thanks for the solid info.
well what is the Xover values and what is the box volume and Fb?
I stopped building speakers in the 1990's... back then I was about to buy some Peerless CC 12" woofers because they had a very low resistance notch, so they were very flat to a low frequency.... what's the best woofer available now that's like the Peerless CC line from about 1993? And how did they do that box in the $5k speaker in this video?
How about the baffle? How do i know what kind they are built?
Probably not the best post to ask this question but I have an existing Control4 system with 4 zone amplifier (2 outside zones, one kitchen, one living room). The control 4 panel and everything else about the system sucks. I am wondering if there another way to use the amp but bypass the control4 panel. In other words, use my phone to connect to a device that will use airplay or wifi and allow me to connect to whichever zone I want, or do I need to buy an entire new system? This would suck as I already have the 8 wired speaker and amplifier. Thanks in advance.
where can i buy plans for these?
As someone who owns W5’s and W8se+ and the se+ uses a different driver .. can’t wait to see what you do with crossover parts
I owned the W5se for 5 years and deeply regret selling them.
Can you do this for the wharfedale Elyisian 4 ? Or even the wharfedale evo 4.4 ?
Any plans on doing the W8s?
I like these diy budget videos. Getting into speakers can a bit costly for some. I would love to watch more budget speaker builds even a $200 build
wait till you get into amplifiers the prices are even worse in the home hifi market
@@shangrilaladeda I have started with a Yamaha receiver which run my Omni directional om-7s and paradigm 5.1set up meaning I can run a 7.1set up but I prefer stereo. I find the om7 paired with the dinas run well together and the bass is crisp and tight and the mids and vocals are very crisp
@@orange9807 that’s cool to know, I use a pc with an asus essence stx ii 7.1 sound card one of the best for a reasonable price to get good audio out of pc, running from rca to xlr to a behringer DI 100 to convert a unbalanced connection into a balanced connection than into a mackie m 48 phantom power supply so the behringer direct box gets power. The amps I am using are all crown models 2 xls 1502 one in bridged mode and 1 xls 2502 along with a xti 6002, I do want to upgrade them all to an xti 2002 for the bridged amp and 4002 for the other 2 xls, now the xls 2502 I want to bi amp my Cerwin Vega xls so the 2502 will be on bass duty for class d is best for bass. I also have a klipsch rp 250c which I recently replaced the drivers to all ds-18 going from 125 watts to over 1000 watts the drivers are 2 DS18 PRO-FR5NEO Loudspeaker- 5.25", Full-Range, Silver Aluminum Bullet, 400W Max, 200W RMS, 4 Ohms and 1 DS18 PRO-TWX6 1.5" Super Bullet Tweeter 600 Watts 4-Ohm which sound much louder than what klipsch has used. I also have 2 peavey 115 running in parallel with the Cerwin Vega xls 215s, I do want to upgrade the drivers in the peavy to black widows also the tweeter I want to replace. I want to replace the drivers in all of my speakers I have some Bose 301 which have an 8 inch and 2 two inch tweeters I can have some fun with those drivers for sure. I also have a Cerwin Vega CVX-21s and and Cerwin Vega ELHDP 18 inch subwoofer. The woofers which are professional models sound the best in my whole system besides the ds-18 upgrade. After I replace all the drivers I am going to build new crossovers for all the speakers except the subwoofers they both are self amplified and together they both put out around 6000 watts in bass. After I upgrade all of my drivers my mids, highs and tweeters will all be able to keep up with my subwoofers for 6000 watts can be overpowering for sure. Also know that all the Bose 301 are 2 together running in parallel, so most of my loads on the amplifiers are 4 ohms and lower which is great for my amplifiers since they aren’t rated to run anything higher than 8 ohms so lower the ohms the better for my amplifiers. Listening to music is a great hobby and I like for everyone to hear what I’m listening too 😁
I would be interested in how to build Marten Parker Duo as DIY, and its interesting in more details how to create or design for carpenter the cabinets
Can you make something that mimics the Kii Threes or the Dutch & Dutch 8c?
I m in need of some 15awg 3.3 mh crossover coils for a pair of sb audience ob 350 woofers
Can you make a video replicating klipsch r-41m? If you can even in a smaller size but same cool drivers, I really love how they look
Having had some experience on the commercial side, the rule of thumb is that retail is 10x the cost of materials to build so yes, you can build $5000 speakers for $500.
I don't buy it. That's for companies that can either demand it, or they're so clueless they're going for a killing because they really don't expect to be around.
For instance, I recently purchased Klipsch the Fives for $550. There's no way the parts are only $55. Two woofers, two tweeters, class d amps, dsp board, all included. Plus I can adjust the eq on my phone app.
@@thunderpooch I think it is scaling with the base price. It might go from factor 3-5 up to 10 with increasing selling price. I think in your example going for 100-130$ parts price would be rather ok. Look up what a woofer cost. Sometimes not more than 10-15$. All parts will be very "on edge" in this price range.
No it’s 5x. 10x is only for elitism products like Ferrari or Gucci.
@@thunderpooch This is due to the small sales volume of high-end hi-fi products. If they sold in larger volume, they could support a lower price, but because high-end hi-fi is a smaller and more artisanal industry, in order to make enough money to sustain the costs of running a business, including making the product; that $500 in materials doesn't even cover the labor to manufacture/build the product, so if you start with $500 and expect to invest nothing else of value into the product, such as labor, know-how, and engineering effort, you're going to be left with a pile of parts that don't make sound. Also keep in mind that the distributor wants to make 20-50 points of margin, and the retailer won't even show the product for less than 50 points, and those add a huge amount to the final selling price.
But this is only in theory that one could build a 5000 dollar speaker for 500. One also has to have the skill and craftsmanship to do it. Some speakers are simple boxes with bracing and wrapped in veneer - yeah that’s not very hard and most people could do this. However, the more exotic designs using real hardwood, like the Boenicke’s, would take real fine woodworking and would require very expensive tools and machinery to accomplish. This is why the Boenicke is a terrible example of DIY. Until I see Joe Shmoe do it, I’m calling bs on this one.
Hey @Toid I have a component question . If on the schematic it calls for a 5.7 ohm resistor and you only could find a 6ohm and a 5.1ohm resistor , which one would be better ? Thanks for any help.
It's hard to answer that without knowing where it is going in the circuit and what is being used for. Most of the time getting as close to is better. So in this case a six. But what would be even better is if you could find a small resistor like a 0.5-0.7 and run that in series with the 5.1ohm. or some combination like a 2.2 and a 3.5 in series to equal a total of 5.7 ohm.
@@Toid thank you ! I'm Recapping my speakers . I've been watching your videos trying to understand. I think it was " How to design a 3 way crossover" "oh" 10uf capacitor + 5.7 resistor. for high mids , and high lows . Polk audio monitor 70 series 2 loudspeakers. It's on there schematic.thank you again I didn't know I could do that.
anyone remember Speakerlab in the 80s? they sold drivers and kits . made a pair for $ 250 and they out performed by buddies JBLs that retailed for $1000 .
Cannot find the build plans in the shop? Aren’t they available anymore?
I would love to see an open baffle DIY.
There is a passive version of the Dinas???Where can i find it (the plans for it)
Yes there are: toidsdiyaudio.com/product/dinas-passive-do-i-need-a-subwoofer/
I'd love to see a spatial clone maybe a smaller model than the m3 . I've hears good things buy don't see having the chedder to drop on the originals any time soon.
Top desire is to clone the KEF R3 standmount! The dang thing measures so well!
Do it. You can get the drivers on ebay
Oh yeah I think something like that could definitely be accomplished
Where to buy the crossover what type
Are these meant to be bi-amped?
How to make such enclosure?
Fantastic vid! Now do one for the Sopras 1 !
I have built 9 pairs of speakers via kits, or plans online. I no longer need to buy commercial brands. It's an excellent way to showcase exotic woods and finishes too, with something functional and interesting to use.
Some of the prices of these small commercial speakers is absurd, even if they were all proprietary components and trendsetting designs. Thank you and others who unravel some of this stuff for us DIY'rs, even with your own designs. A poke in the eye to those elitists who feel that only those with deep pockets should be able to afford high quality audio.
I was interested in the specs so I'm reading the product page and I come across this: "Internal wiring orientation-optimised silk-wrapped high-frequency stranded litz". Whenever I see a reference to cable orientation or the use of Litz wires I immediately hit the ejector seat button. 🤦♂
I have a lot of free oak hard wood. Would that make a good enclosure? Or should I build it out of .5 mdf and then cover it with the.75 oak I have. Seriously I have enough oak to build 50 speakers and size
Oak would work well for a project like this
These look sick though what type of crossover would you need, anybody build this thing?
Nick, Great Stuff, keep up the good work! Some companies are fine existing off of 75% profit. Others obviously need 1600% to feel good about themselves.
The W5 without filter seems questionable. It's range extends well into the mids, and it is quite resonant in the critical 1-2kc range. I can't believe the placement in the side panel alone will remove these artifacts alone, especially indoors.
I would expect a low pass at < 400Hz. How did they deal with this? Have you built, simulated or measured this design? Or does it just not sound all that good?
At that price point I would expect it to at least have some merits though.
Maybe it's one of those "terrible on a graph but actually sounds kinda cool" deals? Pioneer HPM-100 comes to mind...
At first I thought these things must have used DSP to get the results, but I see they are passively crossed with good old fashioned resistors, coils, and caps... I'm with you there. I can't imagine any woofer in a modern speaker not needing SOME kind of filter, whether it be a LR, LRC, or whatever just to flatten out the response a bit, not to mention roll it off to the full-range Fountek driver. I've used the TB W5 several times, as well as the Peerless (sub)woofer Nick mentioned in the newer version (they both model VERY close to each other bass-extension wise by the way) but as good as they both are, I feel they would need at least a few parts thrown at them in order to have a flat-ish response. I'll hold my thoughts on the rear tweeter as like you said, that may be part of the 'unique' experience that this speaker brings. Plus I haven't heard them, so any judgement I have can only be so valid. Also, I feel that the enclosure is on the small side to be getting the full extension out of either the TB or the Peerless; by the time you use a few cubic inches for the fullrange driver and take away the volume for the TB or Peerless woofer, there isn't much volume left in there... But as long as it gives the "Harmonisation included" and "proprietary acoustic phase linearisation network" that we all long for, I guess it's cool. :) Man, are those 'selling points' or made-up words?
They are very attractive speakers, though, even if they just named them after the TB woofer (W5) :)
Geesh, I hope I didn't sound too negative there, they might actually sound half-decent; as I said, I have never heard them... Still, I have a feeling that Nick could best the sound of those Boenicke speakers in the same size with one hand tied behind his back.
It looks like a design choice based on initial product cost and warranty cost. Thousands of low power speakers ship without any kind of LP filter. Basically the rated power isn't enough to cause any kind of physical issues in the woofer. I've heard a few which sound ok, a couple that sounded really good too. Nothing there goes bad over time, nothing much to repair.
On the other hand, I've repaired a few hundred speakers with crappy inductors!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430
I saw a graph on some forum, and yes, the woofer is over-damped as you suggested. Treble is exaggerated too and inbetween, in the mids, there's the Appalachians, as I suggested...
I don't know how the measurement came about other than being from some Gеrman language magazine.
I haven't heard the speaker myself as well.
Thus I spare you final judgement. I hope Toid will actually build (or present) them and maybe make some improvements.
@@vikassm
Okay, but can you elaborate on the failure mode of an inductor? A properly dimensioned one, that is. Because apart from the copper wire resistance, the inductor does not consume any power. Hence it shouldn't get hot.
Also for such low freqiencies of below 500Hz, you will most likely use a ferrite or even transformer core inductor, which might have some eddycurrent losses but much shorter wire and excellent heatsinking capabilities. I have several vintage speakers 30-50 years old, which have inductors some of which I'd even consider undersized and yet they are fine.
Of course if you run a HiFi speaker on full amp power all night, (mis)using it as a party speaker, anything can go wrong. But that's user error and not on the manufacturer.
The only speakers I know without inductors are cheap or oddball constructions.
On a smaller multi-way speaker it's actually more important to use LPF because the woofer's range usually extends far into the mid or (mid-)tweeter's.
@@vikassm I hear you, but if you're designing a speaker that starts at $5,000, but uses only $150 or less in drivers and CLEARLY has a TON of profit built into it, (it is very small after all with smaller/less expensive parts with the cabinet also using less material) then in my opinion, it's almost irresponsible to not at least throw a half-decent iron-core inductor in there on the woofer to calm things down a bit as frequency rises. I've heard and used both of the bass drivers used in both iterations of this speaker, and although both the Tang Band and Peerless are pretty nice sounding drivers and can make good woofers, they don't in my opinion have a nice enough sound on their own to be utilized in a multi-way speaker unfiltered.
I don't think the 'rated power' has anything to do with the low-pass being included or not as the destructive energy that would cause physical problems with low-bass producing woofers lies in the deep bass, not the area that a low-pass would be filtering out. Any 'ugliness' an unfiltered woofer would present would be present if music is being played loud or soft.
You're right that lots of speakers ship with no filter on the woofer at all. Some of the older larger-woofer designs could reasonably get away with it as their heavy cones just didn't reproduce upper-bass with any real energy, but most modern two-way speakers designed to have some mid-upper bass 'clarity' should have at least some attention paid to their upper-range roll-off. Even the really good higher-end drivers need SOME type of filter applied... And I would imagine an inductor would be one of the least-affected elements in a speaker system. There's basically nothing to go bad.
I can appreciate you're playing devil's advocate in a way with the design choices they made, it's only fair to be fair after all... and we're all talking about something which we probably haven't heard.
After watching this video, I watched another fairly long CZcams video by someone whom I haven't heard of, but seemed somewhat respectable, that reviewed this exact speaker -- and he really liked it -- a LOT! It may sound quite nice, actually, it probably almost has to at least sound half-decent to get that many takers... But I doubt I'll ever hear one for myself... I'll be too busy in my basement making my own sawdust.
you should check out the cone speakers by Oswald Mills Audio!
Brand specific driver production isn't done to give retail units a unique, higher quality or special sound. Where it does it is the exception, not the rule.
It is almost always subtle variations that are hard to distinguish in the final sound but make a big difference to the manufacturer in terms of a volume production discount.
Cabinet manufacture, marketing, retail markup and shipping is hardly ever less than 4x the value of the drivers and more commonly 10+ x.
NEED HELP
I need to cover a large outdoor area with music without disturbing the neighbors. It's a long term install.
What should I research to understand the best way to achieve this?
Sorry off topic question.
I thought you built a cinema 10 with B&C woffer and wave / driver ?
I can't find it
You can find it on the website listed under the about page of this channel. When you go to the site, it'll be under both the shop tab and the forums tab.
The cinema 10 was actually done with celestion.
Still hoping you make a nice pair of Klipsch LaScalla's.
Thanx to you, I'm happy to give my money to Amazon, Parts Express. This is the world I want Amazon, Google etc... Less money for us and more money for the big Amazon, Google etc...
The miniDSP has made speaker building so easy. Now anyone can have a perfect crossover in minutes. Sure you need more amplifier channels, but those are now so cheap it makes no difference.
When you have to spend more than 100 bucks on a crossover, why not just use dsp? Dsp can do everything a crossover does and also makes your speaker sound it's best in any room.
But then I won't be able to use my $10,000 amp...
For a more expensive speaker a dsp based amp/active design could be an advantage - especially if it is a more than 2 way design. For a cheap speaker the cost for DSP/amp are a bit too high. A good 2 channel DSP board will go >300€? Maybe even more. Don't think that you could get something really good (high endy sounding) for 100€ or less...
Even with a DSP - it needs some experience and measuement tooling to get everything right. Not only the crossover frequencies must be ok, all the timing between the drivers must be right.
links to the kits would make things far easier
Fantastic video 😂😂😂👍👍👍
I’m running those same fe85 3” drivers and your tang band PR cube sub. They sound great but those were my budget option! No way those are over 3k.
Yeah those fe85 are pretty good for the price
On the note of telling me that I can make a speaker for less what about the machines that you need to make it how much does they cost
Hey where can I get the plans for this?
You can talk more about it on the Forum: toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/diy-vs-hifi-can-you-save-thousands/
The crossovers you can buy that too,is there a name or a number for it?
Take a look at the forum. The link is in the description.
@@Toid ok thanks
Can you use tectonic 65 bmr instead of the front speaker?
Technically, you can use any speakers you want. You just be redesigning it. So in that sense you could.
@@Toid what are your thoughts about bmr speakers? Have you already projects with these kind of speakers? Thanks and keep up the good work 👍
@@user-oy2gw9it3x I love the idea of BMR. It is a great technology. However with every speaker there are good and bad to them. I did design a speaker recently with a BMR, and was very pleased with the end result. czcams.com/video/MbSXDnP8jsY/video.html
@@Toid yes, i've seen that one. Super! One that i have to make myself. Maybe it is a good challenge for you to make the 65's of tectonic the best you can, with some dsp. I believe that project will please you a lot. Keep up the good work. I'm a fan
I want to see the actual finished product and comparison.
My reference quality to price speaker is NHT SuperOne 2.1 $185 a piece. How much better sound do I get if I will spend $250 a piece plus woodworking, Is the main question ?
You should be able to get significantly better in that price range.
DIY Iterations after iterations it'll never satisfy like a Magnepan LRS+.
Depends on how much money you make. My time spent isn't worth the savings though I would buy a different speaker regardless.
can you make a Oswalds Mill Audio clone
fountek better replacement would be MarkAudio Full range
Still got my eye on those big blue JBL. 😁
Those are nice. I do love those speakers. If I ever regret selling a speaker, those would probably be the ones. Of course, I could just remake them :) And when I build my outdoor theater...I will.
I’m confused. When you go and see woofers from let’s say scanspeak and they cost $500 each. Which manufacturer uses such expensive woofers , when most of the $6000+ speakers use only $100- woofers?
Thanks !
It's great that you can recreate it like this. At the same time, I'm wondering if it's possible to recreate a $200,000 Hi-Fi speaker for much less. I'm thinking of Focal Grande Utopia EM Evo.
You can probably get close but with something that high up in price they probably make their own proprietary drivers. God, i couldn't imagine paying that much for speakers.
Yeah they definitely don't use off the shelf drivers in that price range but that's not the o say you can't find some drivers that would do arguably just as well or better, look at the upper end SEAS, ScanSpeak , Purifi, and Accutron drivers... The main limiting factor will be how well you can design.
@@attainableaudio7130 I wonder how a speaker can cost so much. They all work on the same principle.
@@bennonikolaus548 yeah at a certain point there is diminishing returns, at what point is the measurable distortion low enough to be noticable by the average human... But it is the overall loudspeaker 'system' that matters, plus when you get into the stratosphere of audio systems, you'll then also have to put a lot of money into your listening environment to take advantage of it.
@@bennonikolaus548 Lots of employees to pay, small amounts made equals to hand made expensive speaker. Lots of store margins and there we go. Price is 10-20x higher than cost.
I made a modification of your DINAS with the tweeter facing backwards. Does some interesting things for sure!
Do you have to reverse the polarity?
@@Pete.across.the.street yes
Toy mean those TB 13-1761S ? Thanks
You mean
Can you DIY the PHANTOM?
got one .... transmission DIY boxes at 2 ohms
I really don't think you can gloss over the build part of this comparison, ESPECIALLY with Boenicke. The curves of the folded horn in these and the absolutely labyrinthine internal structure of their towers would be above the skillset of amateur diy'ers and at least very time-consuming for a well equipped woodshop. A cnc would be the best route for some of the bracing/cabinet, but then you'd need either an intentionally designed horn for the differences in your drivers/volume, or a way to replicate their design exactly off little drawings. I've seen some pretty impressive folded horn diy projects here around YT, might be worth a look to see what we're really getting into when making glue-ups of Dr Seuss-level-of-wonky pieces
What would make this more convincing would be a listening test between the DIY speakers and the brand name ones.
Yeah. That would be a nice subjective video for sure.
@@Toid if you’re downplaying your “subjective” views the. What value is there in listening to you? Of course it’s subjective but that doesn’t mean it is of no value.
@@imammarc I think you're reading into that. All I was saying is that it would be a nice subjective test. I meant nothing more or nothing less than what I said.
@@Toid ah!! Ok. Makes sense 😂😂😂 I was like “is he saying his review are subjective and not worth watching? I like this guy!!” 😂😂😂 no harm done
Local parts store = online store?
But can DIY compete with more down to earth priced speakers?
From brands like Emotiva, Adam Audio, Swans etc.
Or can DIY even better those speakers?
Generally with diy you want to spend at least $100-150 all told. That's the point where you can start using quality drivers/crossovers and really kick things up a notch.
@@blakebrockhaus347 Thanks for the response.
I have no problem spending 100-200 euro on a driver.
Roughly 1000 euro for 6 drivers, 3 way speaker.
Wood, cables, connectors, microphone, software 500 euro (?)
Crossovers will have to be digital cause I am to dumb for the normal kind.
Minidsp 2x4hd, I'll need two for a 3 way. That's 500 euro.
I'll need 3 stereo amps. Have one. So 2 cheapish decent amps, let's say 800 euro.
Total 2800 euro. Make it 3000.
The question is will these DIY 3000 euro speakers
better a commercial speaker of the same price?
You can get very nice speakers for 3000 euro.
My name is John, I am a mechanical engineer, I saw your website on the Internet, it is very good!
I want to DIY speakers, but I don't know the knowledge of acoustics, I want to communicate with you, can I?
Hope to get an answer, thanks!
As for the Eminence woofers used in the Spatial Audio Sapphire series, I suspect they're not the same as a stock Deltalite. From what I can tell when I was following the development of these things, they are almost identical (if not the same) drivers as the OB-A15neo developed by Pure Audio Project. What makes me suspect they might be the same is about a week after the announcement of the M3 Sapphire, Pure Audio stopped selling their drivers separately, which is kind of suspicious timing wise. The drivers are similar to the Deltalite 2515 but have a much lower BL than the stock driver, higher X-max, and double the QE value. On the other hand, the new M4 and M6 appear to use standard Beyma 12BR-70 and 10BR-60 which do have the right parameters for OB use right out of the box. Hmmm, that might be a good DIY project this channel....
Yup, Those OB Spatial Audio speakers received great reviews. If you have the space to stick them well into the room they do sound like the holy grale for the ultimate in super fast Bass quality and detailed airy highs. That interview on the New record Day channel with the Spatial Audio guy saying his drivers were tweaked versions and you would be hard pressed to find suitable DIY drivers with a high enough Qts suitable for OB. I'm sure there are some good PA drivers that would fit the bill though. Troels Gravesen used a Ciare NDH 15-4 S for his design.
can you send the theater speakers to GR-Research or Erins audio corner for review/testing?
Gosh those companies are just naughty bro! Your the sound robin hood. Keep pulling the big corporate panties down mate great job
how can you get a equivalent cabinet, a large cost of the speaker is the cabinet, a self built cabinet will look poor and not sound good
Now what is inside that strangely shaped box? What would be the minimum in terms of woodworking and power tools that you would need to build the enclosures? I saw one YTer who showed using his computer controlled router table to cut out the speaker holes and the recess that the drivers sit in. I'm guessing that most viewers don't have that sort of tool and most don't have a place to put it or use it if they did.
Next, if you can build something that works that well, making it look as good is a whole other level of wood working.
Dude, what's up with the alternating flapped up collar? Looking down through the comments, I'm surprised no else caught it. Nice vid.
Lol! Nice catch!