Why DIY Speaker Kits - Because They're Better and Cheaper - CSS Audio and GR Research
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- CSS Criton bit.ly/3tlvJ1i
GR Research XLS Encore bit.ly/3uCt8Qy
Assembly for $350 email me with “DIY Assembly” in subject line cheapaudioman@gmail.com
Merchandise bit.ly/30Lgu4K
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Didn't mention that I'll do measurements of each speaker and include that with them in shipment as quality assurance that they are working properly. Email me at cheapaudioman@gmail.com and put "DIY Assembly" in the subject line if you're interested
I knew there something behind the recent collab with New Record Day....DIY, GR-Research...
@@mag290 nothing really to it. I just wanted to make some money so I can quit the rat race. I will also assemble the CSS Criton. Not really a collaboration. I just saw an opportunity to help people get a great speaker if they’re intimidated by the build process.
Fair enough. I'm thinking of offering CSS and GR-Research assembly in CANADA too
@@cheapaudioman 😎
@@cheapaudioman Any suggested component suppliers, drivers, crossovers, connectors and such?
Back in the day, I bought an 8" bookshelf speaker kit,( 2 of them) from Radio Shack, the kits came with crossover components, the woofer, and tweeter, and a complete set of plans for building the enclosure! They were right up there with the more expensive pre-made speakers!
I’m never going to build my own speakers, but I love listening to you talk about it. I appreciate your knowledge and delivery. You speak and explain extremely well in a way that’s concise, informative, and pleasant. I could listen to you talk about watching paint dry. 👏🏼 Thanks for the videos.
I absolutely love my Overnight Sensations, plus the fact that i made a custom desk and was able to finish both with the same stain - looks outstanding and sound amazing.
I’ve had a pair of Danny’s av-1’s for many years, and they’re absolutely great speakers. I’ve had a number of other things, but keep coming back to them.
My wife got me a pair of speakers (Micca MB42X) for Easter. I haven't had any stereo equipment since I was a teenager. This channel not only got me re-interested in quality audio, I've learned so much about the true depth of the subject. It's been a fun few weeks, thanks Randy!
That's very cool Man, i have a pair of the non X micca's and they are not like good speakers but somehow they are enjoyable
@@lamecasuelas2 You know, in light of this DIY video, I can tell you that Micca sells, at least they used to sell, I'm not sure about now, but I don't see why they would stop selling, a crossover kit that basically makes the MB42s into MB42Xs. They are the same speaker with the only difference being the crossover, the X actually stands for crossover. There's a video by another reviewer who shows how to install the crossover, and he said adding the crossover does make a significant enough difference to warrant the price and effort, I think it's like $20 US.
@ Travis H With due respect to your wife as well as yourself, I would tell you that MB42x speakers really aren't that great, in my opinion, they are greatly overrated, for the price you can get better speakers, and frankly, you can get better for less.
I'm only telling you this because Easter wasn't too long ago, and while you can appreciate the gift from your wife and graciously thank her for the speakers, if you really want the best sound, you should be able to return them to Amazon if that's where she got them.
I would recommend Neumi BS5 bookshelf speaker, they're just 10 bucks more than the Miccas and are a whole lot better.
If you actually want to go cheaper than the Miccas, I would look at "Singing Wood" brand speakers. I cannot remember which I bought first, the Miccas or Singing Wood T25 passives, but I bought them late last year at the same time(well, one day apart) I bought a pair of Micca MB42Xs because they were cheap. I bought the Miccas because they were so hyped and I hadn't heard of Singing Wood, but after comparing, I can tell you the Singing Wood speakers are better in every regard, build quality, looks, and sound, so much so that I ended up returning the Miccas. I got a small desktop DAC/amp with Bluetooth for $32 bucks, and together they work great.
P.S. While I haven't heard them myself, the Micca RB42s are supposed to be much better, but they are $150 as opposed to $90.
Many months later… hope you didn’t take the criticisms of these folks too seriously, especially those who don’t even have them and have listened to/watched some reviews. The point is that you’re enjoying yourself and finding what you like. Who cares what some keyboard warriors have to say about what you should do. I have some MB42Xs myself. They’re currently set up with my TV. They definitely sound better than the drivers that shipped with my TV.. previously I used them as desktop speakers. Are there better speakers, probably/sure. So what, there’s always better.
I am addicted to DIYing speakers! I wanted to add a sub to my system last year. Figured out that you could DIY with moderate amounts of research. I loved the process, studied all the parameters, bought hardware to build cabinets. Built a first one, a second one, a third one (family) and already have drivers on my desk for some bookshelves. I absolutely love this and now I annoy every friend or familymember to let me build something for them.
But honestly, it's really great. Price to performance ratio is excellent, you can design the enclosure as you prefer and there are so many plans available so you don't even have to get into all the details of speaker design that will eventually coast you a fair amount of money on measuring equipment - unless you love it...
I've been going to the Owston DIY hi-fi event in England for the last few years and agree with everything you say in this video.
For me, the biggest advantage to going DIY is that I don't have to stick to slimline low efficiency ported speakers. I can instead, for example, go down the wide-body, 18" woofer, 4 way, high efficiency, sealed box speaker route.
I looked at many dishes and could not find what I wanted so I designed and built my own based upon research from experts. The result is I got what I wanted built to work in the room that I use for listening with sound quality that exceed anything that I was looking at. It does take time and patience but is well worth it if you have the skills and time. Great conversation!
I was just waiting for you to get to the enclosures. That was my wow moment when I built my first speakers using birch plywood, and recycled denim insulation. Well, until I plugged them in. It's a good weekend project with years of pay off.
I learned more about speakers in this 20 minute video than I have in the past 30 years. Great stuff!
Yup, the 1st DIY speaker is a huge learning experience. The instructions are an advantage, read them, it's a great jumping off point. My biggest take away was the size & complexity of the crossover. The strength & rigidity of the cabinet is also a big learning item.
Love that you think this as well.
I put elac tweeters in older heybrook
Great video, been a fan of Danny's videos over at GR Research for a while. Hope you get a nice side business assembling those kits!
I’m sold, thanks for you’re honesty and insight.
My 50th birthday is coming up, reckon I’ve found the perfect gift.
I started DIY speakers in 1975, using Phillips drivers, crossovers, and plans. I made 3-way 10-5-1 speakers for less than a decent 2-way (8" + 1" ) with minimal crossovers. I also learned a lot more than I would have just buying a pair, then another, then another, as I tweaked the sound.
I was using my Sony core speakers for my 7.1 surround, a Onkyo RZ 820 reciever, the Sony's sound good and clear but I watched this video and went to Parts Express and purchased the Dayton BR-1 kit, put it together, used the acoustical foam around the inside of the box but added speaker stuffing to fill the open interior of the enclosures, listen to them and gave them break in time, Wow wow wow, so impressed with the sound they put out deep base I think due to the oversized enclosures, and the mids and highes are phenomenal, they blow away the Sony's and even the Elac unifi bookshelf that I had, you are absolutely correct on a diy build, I'm 47 yrs old and been around and had many different systems and speakers, The Dayton BR-1 is just a awesome sounding work of art with great soundstage and imagining, sometimes I can actually hear sounds around and behind me, unbelievable, Randy have you ever listened to these, if not I recommend getting a pair !
Nice show. I thought about both of these plus a few other. Building the Parts Express Samba MT's right now. It was a tough choice.
Built a pair of MTM's a few years ago. Was at the Valve State of the Art conference in Bremerton and a speaker designer gave me his plans on a sheet of paper for my own personal use. Quite a learning experience since it was not a kit.
I did some speakers designed by Troels and couldn’t be happier with them. Been planning another one of his designs too. Super awesome way to go.
That wooden devil skull is so cool! Thank you for posting such informative videos.
very interesting, liked and subscribed. as a retired carpenter/handyman, i have, i imagine, all the woodworking power tools slowly dying in the garage. most of my furniture is flintstone quality. thanks, i'll look into these kits!
The DIY CSS XO is very well done. The 3D printed board and alphabet wiring diagram is super simple. Nice job CSS.
It's pretty slick
And excellent summarization of the whole DIY speaker concept. I took the plunge with the CSS TD-X and couldn't be happier. CSS obviously put great deal of thought into making the build process as easy as possible and it shows. I grew up building Heath Kit products and honestly this was a beginner level build due a lot to how well thought out the materials and process were. The sound, well to a non-audiophile it's just incredible. Highly recommended.
glad to see your channel growing brother. I always enjoy your videos. I might have to look into some of these kits much appreciated
15:20.....love what you said. Nothing more rewarding than knowing the person that made your loudspeaker...it could be you !
Until this video... I was considering Elacs, the new Polk's, etc. Not anymore! This makes so much more sense to me. I already have the tools and most of the experience. Awesome video Randy, I'm stoked! I really love the DIY stuff you've been doing.
think you'll be blown away by the quality
i was looking at the Klipsch & Elacs too but i ended up building the GR Research AV Series and i absolutely love them, they do take some time to break in but once they do its awesome!!!
Elacs up to the debut reference have a poor tweeter. Polk is a pile of offshore junk. DIY is better than either by a long shot.
share with us how it went!
@@scottlowell493 The new Polk Reference series is an incredible value, still not as much of a value as a tried and true DIY speaker of about the same price but they’re still great speakers.
Simply said, great video!! I've been toying with the idea to build my own speakers for a while and this is the kick in my behind much needed to start this project. Thank you!
Check out this vid if you haven’t built em yet
czcams.com/video/zdkyGDqU7xA/video.html
cool Randy. Good luck in this new venture!
greetings from Brazil
Very nicely put together show.
Seemingly all in one take.
Plain spoken and intelligent.
Bravo! Please carry on!!
Really nice your doing DIY reviews. Looking forward to more of these such as Amp Camp and others.
I wish I found this channel sooner, I could only afford one giraffe but now after saving so much money big Jeffrey will soon have a giraffe wife,thanking you in advance, kevin.
Cool video! Yes DIY is the best way to go, I've been doing it for somewhere close to 50 years but never with a kit and I rarely build box speakers anymore. I switched to open baffle in 1994, and active crossovers in the late 80's so I don't do a lot with passive any more. I built my first CBT line array in 2009 (also open baffle) for the center channel speaker in my home theater and will be building open baffle CBT's for the LCR in the new theater. The surrounds in the new theater will use passive crossovers developed using LspCAD but I hope I don't need to do anything else with passive. I use to build analog active which was a pain and expensive having PCB's manufactured but these days I just use miniDSP.
It's a fun hobby and you can definitely get better sound with far less money but it takes time and effort to learn so if you just want better speakers but don't want to invest the time and effort into obtaining the knowledge then a kit will be the best option. If you don't want to build a kit then this video has just given you a solution. I don't know Randy, I just discovered this channel, but if he can assemble it for you then I don't think you will go wrong. I personally don't offer kit building or any other services and don't really have any plan to but I wish all the best to anyone wanting to start such a business so I wish this channel the greatest success!
Are we going to see a Saturday shoot out! On these two speakers? I think this next winter I’m going to build a GR Reserch kit. Great video Randy, I really enjoy the DIY and mod stuff. Thanks!
I totally agree that you should do a full on review for each of these diy speakers as well as a shootout on Saturday
yeah I wonder which one sounds better? I gather the Criteon is gonna have more bass.
I've always been interested in making my own speakers. I'm in now.
Thanks for the info!
Another Great video Randy! I've absolutely loved my XLS for the almost year ive had them. I've got 2 more in the works, but the XLS was a great way to get my bearings with assembly.
Great to see you onboard with a couple of the best DIY speakers. You have built 10 different kits WOW! My Encores are very good and as you said better then speakers in the same range, especially the elac ubi52's I recently purchased Randy!! :) I think you should have doubled down on the plywood thickness for the GR's. I hope you are doing a speaker build for the GR's as the crossover video was how most of us non pro's built it. Band-Aids and all. That wire is thick! :) A Saturday speaker shoot out? :)
I built & own the GR Research AV Series for my av room. Currently the AV3 Towers, AV3S Centre & AV2 Surrounds.
Just waiting for Xmas to be over and im gonna start building the GR Research X-Statik's for my 2.1 setup for the livingroom......Cannot wait, LOVE GR Research
I can't wait for your reviews on both speakers with the upgraded components. I'm withholding my purchase till then.
Just now signed on, even though I'm a year late. When shopping for the best bookshelf I could find, (and I listened to six audiophile brands) the one speaker that sounded best in all music categories was the B&W Nautilus 805. Whether of classical piano, orchestral, jazz, fusion, rock or country, these boys shine.
A good friend of mine that has always been an engineer started his own car audio products under the same deal. He designed everything and then had out of the country people make them to his specs
Couldn't agree more with the statements on cabinets. For speaker companies, a 350lbs cabinet for a medium sized 3-way speaker is just not something you can easily mass produce and distribute under most circumstances. But as a builder with a reasonable number of tools, you can design and build them yourself. And, of course, control over individual components (crossovers, wiring, driver selection, damping materials, etc) lets you experience so much more music than anything else with a reasonable price tag. Add to that the joy of hearing magic you created with your own hands... it's so much fun!
Good Man. Appreciate the effort and reaching out!
Huh never thought about doing this type of project, sounds like fun
I'm new to the whole audio world spent a lot of time scouring goodwill and eBay for a deal. Well I make a little bit more cash now so I sought out to setup a decent 7.1 system. As a lover of diy I didn't know this existed. More so I'm grateful I stumbled upon this before I spent any real money.
Years ago, I built a pair of TriTrix MTM TLs. After I built them, I wanted to test them. My brother was with me and had a Jackson Browne Live CD in his car. We put that CD in and played it through the TriTrix. He got a huge grin on his face. He said he was hearing things that he had never heard before. And he listened to the CD at least a hundred times. Not sure what your thoughts are in the TriTrix kit, but I loved them. I sold them because someone I worked with listened to them and offered me 3 times more money than I had in them. I wish I still had them!
I've done DIY audio since my 20s. Mostly simple tube amps from push pull EL 34s to single ended triodes and pre amplifiers. More recently I discovered Troels Gravesen's excellent website and for the last year have been living with a 3 way design. It was not a cheap build, but I think they are pretty special. 12 inch woofers and beryllium dome tweeters. I had someone do the cabs but am now setting up my workshop to enable me to do this 'in house'! It would be great if Randy came round to review my speakers against something commercial at and above the build cost. I invite this a UK based audio CZcamsr over for this.
I built a pair of GR Research X-LS with all of the crossover upgrades. Absolutely love their sound. Neutral, balanced, and definitely sound like speakers around the $2500-$3000 mark...They are that good. They are not bright, or lively, or warm. Just a lovely balanced sound with my revealing equipment.
How were the GR Research crossover assembly instructions? Their video was pretty confusing and he indicated that the instructions were just electronic schematic drawings (way over my head).
@@greenbeginner9221 The instructions were very basic. I was a bit intimidated since I'd never assembled a crossover and soldered before. But, I made sure I had all the right tools and took my time. I watched the assembly video many times, and had it with me during the assembly. Laying all the parts out with the small crossover board that came with my flat pack cabinet helped me organize and position everything as Danny suggests in the video. I took my time and followed the steps closely and it worked out really well.
@@cabeallen1277 Thanks for the reply. Maybe it will make more sense to me if I had it physically in front of me. I wish Danny would have spent more time with the camera work.
@@greenbeginner9221 yeah, I would agree. Having the parts in front of you does help. I certainly had a "a ha" moment when I was laying the parts out and watching the assembly video a few times. I finally understood the layout. It was a head scratcher and then it became clearer. Make sure you have a good quality set of wire strippers and pliers for twisting the wires.
Love seeing you promote DIY! I am huge into DIY. A couple things I wanted to say in relation to your video. The large manufactures design their drivers and the argument that drivers are specific to the design favors the major manufacture more than just about anyone. Some of the drivers in JBL, KEF, REVEL, Focal. ect are the most advanced in the world and yet are relatively inexpensive for them to produce. I do not DIY to compete with that. Additionally fantastic speakers can be made with fairly modest drivers as these days a "modest" driver is often quite capable. In DIY, the consumer is handling the drivers and crossover parts so there is incentive to make them visually superior and promote the individual parts more to generate sales of said upgraded parts, as we know however a speaker is more than the sum of expensive parts. A visually superior driver may not be sonically superior and many examples of this exist especially now, with contemporary advanced manufacturing drivers may look very simple and yet be fantastic units. They may also cost very low $. That all said, I love DIY for the fun and learning and the hands on experiences. It really is not the total value proposition it once was and yet I still enjoy it (and if not total, there is some good value to be had). It is cool that you have the GR research kit and the CSS kit here as they are known to be excellent examples for DIY. The Wavecore/CSS woofer in particular in the CSS is famous. Of course that is largely due to modeling well into 30hz bass response which can be impressive to experience I am sure. There are other factors though, such as if you are pairing with a sub or two there is less benefit to the expense of the Wavecore/CSSdriver over some less expensive woofers. Anyway the real issue I have is with the "boutique" crossover component claims, I hate to see folks paying for expensive caps and resistors without knowing what they are wading into. I would be curious if you have really researched this? Where you able to complete two truly identically valued crossovers and compare them? Many extremely famous designers, engineers and DIY folks are not on board with fancy crossover parts (even though they could choose them) and of course some are. I don't see you promoting expensive speaker wires, tube connectors and other dubious product, why expensive crossover components? Seems like you could do an episode on exploring these components and how you became sold on them.
Yeah there is one guy who seems to be a guru of sorts. He makes a living getting the gullible to think they must have mega $$$$ x-overs. HE sells up grade kits with boutique parts- that cost double or triple the speakers original price.
It is definitely a waste of time and money to spend extra for crossover components. That's why most speaker companies don't use them.
They get the parts and test them so they get the best match possible. I know people who have built kits and thought they could get better sound buying more expensive caps, resistors, and coils, only to find either no difference or a degradation of it.
Not trying to insult you but sighted listening comparisons is of no value. The brain doesn't do well with sound and memory. The best, most reliable comparison is done double blind and with levels matched and the ability to switch between sources instantaneous.
Speakers are the weakest link in the audio chain with distortion levels in woofers at around 5% which is clearly audible.
One hopes that the marketers of speaker kits puts the same kind of effort into choosing cover parts and drivers.
I have a pair of DIY speakers using Scan Speak Kevlar woofers (7 in.) and Focal tweeters. For bass I got a 12 in Shiva driver from Adore audio. I've had them for almost 30 years and have never had a negative comment.
I found out after a lot of trial and error on my own designs that if one isn't an EE then the odds of designing an outstanding pair of speakers are slim to none.
Kits are terrific if you are good with tools.
My favorite that I ever constructed were from Dynaudio and we're MTM or D'Appolito configuration. Tweeters in the middle with identical midwoofers above and below. Once I was finished and listened to them I just about cried when I had to deliver them. It never hurts to use high quality drivers and Dynaudio are definitely some of the best.
The comments about the Linkwitz designed kits is spot on. Nobody has ever said an unkind word about them. Every review I ever read raved about how open the sound was.
For those who want to try their hand at kit building, I recommend starting with a subwoofer because they are much easier, especially if you use an acoustic suspension type box with the appropriate woofer. Make sure that if you use a plate amp that it has an EQ that can lower the volume on frequencies that tend to peak if you set your sub in a corner. In my room that's 50hz and is 10db higher than the rest of the output. That's fine if you like 50 hz but you're going to miss out on the very lowest frequency sounds. It is also good to remember that the smaller the room the more LF boost you will get which is why you need to try different placements of your sub.
Adire is back in business and still makes some very high quality, affordable drivers.
Follow Nevada's example
Abolish qualified immunity
I like Giraffes 😁 and Jennifers devil skull 🤣
Outstanding and informative video Randy !!!
That’s a great deal your offering to and I wouldn’t expect anything less from a stand up down to earth tell it like it is guy like you .
Much respect 👍🏻
Man I love your intros and faux-sponsor shoutouts!! Nothing says "I Love you" like a handcrafted dead head skull 💀🤣 Actually starts a detail-oriented show off with a bit of a light note! Love it! (I wouldn't be here if there weren't details, but it makes the teacher more likable).
This was a great explanation of the benefits of DIY speakers. Have you thought about covering some improvements folks can make to existing speakers, and the level of 'snake oil' involved with some of them? I've glued roofing shingles to the inside of a pair of acoustic suspension speakers to reduce cabinet resonances and re-stuffed them with different materials through the woofer cut-out. Both mods had a positive effect.
I have the Madisound BK12 kit speakers, and they were easy to assemble and they sound great. I have them as my second system, but in the same room as my main system. They're great for playing with low powered / tube amps that my main system speakers don't work with.
But you pay so mich for plywood. Fostex plans are free. And there are better ones. Lok for nagaoka fostex
Cool vid & really well done Randy - this is valuable stuff for the 'community'. Yep, shipping is a killer for manufactured; of drivers to assembly point, of cabs at least twice etc. DIY problems; resale, WAF, finishing. Rejuvenating and upgrading 2nd hand can be a cost effective alternative to getting value, though possibly has more caveats and pitfalls than DIYing! Quality of parts is a big problem in manufactured - cheapish stuff in units costing in the thousands...replacing value for value can be a huge upgrade here. Final tip; do not attempt to design from scratch - if you want to build from scratch there are plenty of plans out there to follow.
I enjoy your sense of humor.
i know, its great isnt it
Back in the 70’s I built some SpeakerLab Super 7’s & they sounded great coupled with my dynaco pre amps PAT4 and 5’s & ST150 Amp..
One of my friends works for them, and his step-dad owns the company. Pretty cool rig, I actually need to get a pair of these soon.
Another right on set of observations and points well taken.
Now once these are broken in please let us know how these sound in comparison to say Elac or KEF or B&Ws selling for under 600usd
He'll find that they are better. :)
@@ja8020 It would be better to hear details how it is better.
@@kdomster9141 Bass for one. There really is no replacement for displacement in bass drivers (good quality ones). Also as Ron pointed out the elac bass driver attack and decay are similar to the encore paper cone driver but the bass in the elac really needs juice to get some what close to the encore and then it doesn't seem to have the same weight to it. I also think if the sandcast resistors and especially the iron core inductors are replaced in the ubi52 then it you could get better clarity and less smearing. But that is only my 2 cents and others may think quality of components etc etc is a myth. But for me I can A/B the 2 and I know what I like. :)
I enjoyed your take....great job. If you had some b-roll footage of each of the things you were talking about.... That would have made it amazing.
Seriously, holy crap, in like 7 different ways...
So your sub count continues to rise, you said that you want to do this full time, you made several good points and new perspectives on diy speakers, you're willing to build speakers for people (which will definitely get more people interested in the audio world in general as well as diy speakers specifically) and overall you're almost irritating in your apparent ease of adaptation into "being a youtuber". The man crush is real and I'm seriously looking forward to seeing what you do for, hopefully, years to come. I will also definitely be contacting you to build me some speakers later, maybe that'll be my Xmas present to myself. Great job as usual, keep it up and thank you for your service (military and CZcams) !
Thanks, brother. If I'm being completely transparent I've had a crush on you for a while. I'm actually in your yard right now.
@@cheapaudioman Randy is getting randy
I'm doing it. I've been overwhelmed with research on some bookshelf speakers until I came across the diy option. Plus I'm a control freak and this really appeals to me. I also have a woodworking shop in my garage and a wall loaded with exotic hardwoods. I'm thinking I might order a flat pack and use that as a template/jigs for future speaker cabinets. Keep up the great work Randy!
Woodworker here as well and thought the same. I'm a drummer so I figured some birch, maple, or mahogany would make great speaker boxes, but like drums, these woods introduce tonality. So, I'm wondering if mdf is actually preferred because it is more neutral? I don't know the answer btw but I look at these manufactured speakers and think I could make this so much better.
@@erics.4113 I think a heavy/dense wood sealed properly and braced then ad some no rez would be fine. I was thinking of ash or oak (readily available here and cheap) and filling/sealing to get a smooth finish then sprayed with a white pre-cat lacquer. I started to reconsider the diy speaker. The XL-S Encore with all the upgrades and a sheet of no rez shipped to my door is $930. Once you buy that it's yours whether you like the sound or not and then there's the finishing. I started looking at other speakers in that price range or for a little more and you're looking at some quality stuff and if you don't like the sound chances are you can send it back. I'll probably still get it but I need to stew on it for a while longer
@@toddb7154 if you're not going for a natural wood finish I wonder if the solid wood is beneficial. Like I said I'm not sure, but my guess is that different woods will color the speakers sound. Coming from the drumming background, the type of ply makes massive differences to tonality. Not saying that's good or bad with a speaker, just not sure how significant vs mdf. I'm not familiar with no-rez but my guess is it is something dense that kills resonant frequencies?
I hear you on the other points. There probably is little after-market for DIY at 1k, and you could easily buy 1k speakers and retain much of the value on the second hand market. Maybe you could also source the DIY second hand as well? Someone that wasn't so successful with the build and you could grab the drivers and crossover network and scrap their cabinets?
Much to consider. I did a demo the other day at a local audio spot. I left underwhelmed by numerous bookshelves reaching into the $2k price. Maybe my expectations were off or the equipment stack or maybe I just really want floor stander sound even though I don't have the room for that right now.
Good luck on whatever direction you take. I'm looking for a project to get into so I am seeing the DIY route as a satisfying check box for both the end result and the journey of building them.
@@erics.4113 If you do the diy come back and give an update. I'd love to hear how it worked out for you. I'll do the same
@@toddb7154 appreciate that. I just ordered rp600m klipsch for the sale price of $377 going on. I'm also looking at some ELACs and more amps and gear to experiment with. I'm sure a diy something or other is coming at some point.
Just finished a GR research kit and ! That’s not bad! Especially all the headache I’ve had...lol...only divergence is looks
How did you figure out the crossover assembly? Did the instructions include anything better than electronic schematics? (Those things are Greek to me). I watched the GR Research "how to" video and it left me totally confused. The poor camera work made things worse.
DIYSG HT series please. These are made for home theater, but I have always wondered how they sound to a stereo music enthusiast.
Loving the content! Really nice you'll have some coverage of the DIY space. It's a really great option!
I built a triplet of the DIY Sound Group's- Elusive 1099. They have a 10" horn loaded twitter, twin 5" mids, and twin 10" bass drivers, 99dB/1W. Bass response falls off below 80hz, so you need a sub or two. Amazing speaker that really played cleanly up into insane volume levels (120db+). The horn and tweeter combo are really good, did not sound like a typical horn speaker. It's a great home theater option that can be basically, just assembled and finished by the buyer. Far easier today than when I built mine when the design was brand new. Pre-built crossovers and cabinets weren't available then.
DIY isn't really as difficult as many may assume. Plenty of proven designs available from multiple vendors. It's a really fun project, that you can get as crazy with as you like. Really great value if you're willing to put in a little time and work.
I'd love to build another pair of speakers, maybe I'll get a little more involved in the design. I need to look into crossover building and speaker design. Time to start buying some books and checking out design software.
Started with the HiVi DIY 3.1, which is currently one of the best price to performance wise on Audio Science Review... Upgraded to a Genelec 8260 which likely beats out all currently tested speakers on Audio Science Review.
Thank you Randy,
Nicely done 👍
I think CSS has Danny beat in one aspect and thats the crossover, CSS its all laid out and the parts fit in a moulded piece of plastic with lettering for easy reference. Dannys you cut your own piece of mdf 1/4 inch and drill your own hole, not a deal breaker, but CSS is slick how they did it.
My main speakers are a DIY/Self assembled kit from that 'other' company up in Wisconsin. I've had them over twenty years and I have no desire to swap them out...there are other speakers I'd like to try, but I still really enjoy mine. The kit was $900 delivered to CA, and included pre built and finished cabs, and IIRC, with the upgraded x-over. It's the Dynaudio Aries kit and shortly after I got the kit Dynaudio exited the DIY marketplace. I listened to a lot of speakers before the purchase, and after they were built and burned in...IMHO I had the same sound of the comparable retail Dynaudio speaker, but at about 35% of the cost. The biggest difference is in the cabinets. My kit cabs are much more solid, but not nearly as pretty. A very passable oak veneer, but not 'statement furniture'.
IMHO, if you can install a ceiling fan, or put together a Ikea wall unit, you can DIY speakers with a flatpack, and you will have a sound very significantly better than comparable retail speakers .
There are two negatives others mentioned below. Resale. If you are a flipper, stay away unless you are connected to a local audio society. And you can't hear DIY before purchase. But if you want something that "punches way above its price..."
Agreed. Lol. Speaker flippers made me think of people throwing speakers around and it made me laugh.
This video needs to be in the HiFi hall of fame. The end is Randy realizing what those of us that have built the mighty Criton Or Encore have also discovered, some, thanks to this video. And I own popular $1500 Wharfedales, Elacs and Klipsch. None of them sound as refined and effortless as the CSS Criton.
Best HiFi money I’ve spent. If you have the means and time, don’t hesitate.
It would be very interesting to compare mainstream/ commercial speakers to speakers from diy sound group, like the HT8. They are in the sub $500 price range.
Great work Randy...Massive promo for DIY. :-D
Yes they are. And so fun to make.
The last time I was this early, Randy hadn't sold his family yet.
I agree with all these points. I too Audio DIY speakers and eletronics, its really fun and rewarding the only challage I would stress is access to the tools for the job and using it, this will cost you. ask a friend that's good with wood aesthetics and leave woodwork to somebody else, however before then.. work needs to be invested into loudspeaker/eletronics physics and mathematics and lastly, eletronics this demands tools of varying degrees depending on the application. I own almost all tools expected to build a great a audio system, it took a very very long time to aquire them.
Just down the road is a woodworking shop....small business....wouldn't this guy know how to make a wooden box look good? He's got all the equipment and knows wood. I'm sure, you can find a wood worker guy in every city with a population above 100, 000 people. Doesn't that solve the finish and cut costs a bit?
Note on Resonance in cabinets. Ultra hi end speakers that has that organic sound doesn't hv inert cabinets ie Gamut and less expensive Harbeth as these results in natural sound because inert means a sound like Magico. But these are done on purpose with deliberate resonance in selected frequencies.
Love your videos. I would love to see you do a comparison of new bookshelf speakers to older to vintage bookshelf speakers, for example, SVS Prime Bookshelf sound comparison to an old Bowers & Wilkins DM601. It is something I am interested in, old vs new. I am a cheap speaker flippin' guy (mid-hi to end) that wants your opinion.
I just watched a DIY video where a guy broke down the cost of the drivers and crossovers and enclosure of this speaker system that from the manufacturer costed an insane $6000 to $10,000. He figured that the max it would cost an individual to buy the parts and put them together themselves was no more then $500 and possibly as lose as $300. This made me think, how many of these "high end" companies are using these inexpensive materials to make these very expensive speakers. I can understand some mark up, but when the mark up is as much as 1300%, I'm going to call shinadingans on them. Great video on why DIY is good.
When I see your CZcams name all squished together, it looks like it says Chapeau dioman. Chapeau being French for hat. I tip my hat to you sir, great video, you've earned another subscriber!
My first were the tritrix tl. Love them. Next on my list is the HiVi 3.1 with the reworked crossover. there aren't any good video reviews of that speaker. Would love to hear about them.
My goal in life is to get him to review the Parts Express C-Note speaker kit. It's one of the most common DIY models, but I don't think any notable reviewer has ever reviewed them.
Just had a quick look at the c note.
Very interesting! Not on par with these two but what a great way to start with this hobby! I just may start with a set.
@@todddonaldson2822 I've made a few pairs of them for gifts. They're definitely decent, even after accounting for some parts you have to get that aren't included in the kit.
@@gomibako2517 What parts are not included? Did you leave the exterior bare or?? I’ve seen another vid with a wrap over MDF. Not bad but I’m searching for ideas.
@@todddonaldson2822 - I just checked their listing again. You used to need to buy some binding posts (or terminal cups), speaker wire, and screws. Those are now apparently included in the kit. Some reasonably common optional additions are wire quick disconnects for the speaker connections inside the cabinet, a pair of crossover boards (like part 260-186), two 0.22uF capacitors (like part 027-202) for the 0.22uF capacitor modification (Google it), and acoustic damping material (like part 260-520). There are lots of helpful threads and people on forums like Audio Science Review and Tech Talk if you have questions. As for finishes, I have used primer and spray paint, ExoHyde, and paper backed maple veneer with pressure sensitive adhesive that I finished with wood dye and water based polyurethane. The veneer was the most work by far. ExoHyde was the easiest.
@@todddonaldson2822 I used ExoHyde on my last set of MDF enclosures. If you're into black, or white textured coatings it's great. I used parts # 260-2100, and 260-115.
Love the video and applaud your bringing the diy option to audiophiles on a budget. BUT, while every point you made is true these kits are not exactly cheap despite the greater return on investment. For many the cost is still a stretch.. Your first videos gave solid advice to those who might only have a total audio budget of a thousands bucks or less. Theres a lot of competition at that range. Along the way you've taught folks how to listen and what to listen for when evaluating speakers and equipment. Your own growth is evident from following you these past months.. you're a good honest man and if taking your CZcams/audio path in a new direction I wish nothing but the best. I just hope you still have time for the quality value reviews and shootouts that separate the wheat from the chaff for the more contained consumer.
Have a lot of things in the works, Dean at all price levels. There are some great kits out there too that are very affordable. CSS and GR are the companies that I've concentrated on now but there will be many more to come.
"It, they, him" lmfao subscribed
I just made my 1st DIY and a enjoyed doing it. I selected Dayton Audio drivers and crossover components. I demo this as well.
What did you get. Tell me more. I tried my hand at doing that too. My results were… not great.
@@cheapaudioman Just small 4inch aluminum cone woofer and 1inch tweeter. I like the low end, but not so satisfied with the tweeter.
Best video yet
.i would love to see you build the x-mtms(floor standing) from gr. Research. I built this after the encores. Love the channel was your 45th subscriber ...
How much different are the 2, they aren't drastically more money are they for what you get, but are rather large floor standers if I remember correctly
Randy, 2 questions about your DIY video. What kit is easier to put together? And what kit sounds better to you?
Intiminated? 🤔 great vid. Been trying to find the right speakers, searching sites, reading reviews, I like vintage, but that's just a look the can easily be replicated, but this vid video is hella encouraging.
Parts Express, Madisound, Meniscus, and several others also have kits. Madisound has very high end drivers from Seas and Scan Speak, but I don't know if they use those in any of their kits.
Man I tried and tried and tried over 30 years and I just can’t beat the cost. I really want to make them again but for example if I want a particular bookshelf speaker that costs $1500 I might save $100 when said and done. I think I need better sourcing 😢 now AMPS for sure I can save a TON. You can make an Amp that may cost $4000 retail for 1/4 that easy. Gonna try again 👍
This was a great general DIY Speaker video. But I hope you still do an indepth review on each of these speakers. I'd love to hear your impression on their soundstage, bass, mid-range, treble... Maybe in that order. Maybe not. Surprise us 😂
Also comparing the standard versions with the upgraded components.
I remember my reel to reel tape player.
I saw the title and bam! GR reseach ! But of course!!! I knew that was it!
Hope I don't outrage someone here, but I personally love my set of Overnight Sensation DIY speakers from parts-express. They were quick to build and sound fantastic on my desk at work. I've built a handful of the diy kits from PE for other people and have yet to no be very impressed. Especially at the price.
When you built the speakers did you pay for the upgraded sonicap capacitors on the GR or are the standard Erse pretty good? Love your videos, you have changed the way I look at audio equipment. Thanks for what you do.
Looking for your xls encore review. I could swear you had this, but can't find it anymore!! I'm finally receiving the parts after the x-series tweeter shortage, and thought of revisiting your review.
Thanks so much for posting this!
I have rescued old speakers from curb which had dry rotted drives, mostly woofers. I swapped out the drivers with more modern units and although not worthy of any reference system they product quality good enough for my bedroom.
I built a few sets, and would say it is always cheaper, but you always get exactly what you want.
I've been working on designing and building my own DIY speakers for a bit now, definitely a fun and rewarding hobby but:
Well regarded kits are the way to go unless you want to travel down a deep deep rabbit hole.
Also, as far as I can tell, the SVS Ultra bookshelves use the Peerless GFC 6.5" with an SVS sticker, that's a $55 woofer in a $500/pc bookshelf with cheap crossover components... The margins are very real.
Very few speaker companies actually make their own drivers. Majority of them use ScanSpeak drivers. Wilson Audio anyone?
Going down the rabbit hole is the fun and the journey.😜
Not knocking kits, they are great, especially from these kinds of designers.
Designing and building your own though does feel immensely rewarding.
@@ASSOpid very true. Dali use Peerless driver's, albeit with some wood fibre and pigment in the cones. Otherwise they can be had for £15.😂 Along with a cheap but good looking cabinet and a crossover that wouldn't be out of place in a Christmas cracker.
It's this exact type of thing that led me to build my own.
I built a focal 2 way kit. When I was done, they sounded identical to a wilson watt 5 (same drivers),1% tolerance parts in crossover. tThe kit was a minute fraction of the cost of the watt.
Must resist. Don't click on links.
I have already been looking at the GR Research site for about 6 weeks now. I am a DIY guy myself as I like a great value and the added value of putting the work in myself. Bikes, computers, guitars and my Raspberry Pi stream have all been built by my hands. This seems like a fun project.
Could you do a review of each of these speakers.
Audio is a hobby and DIY is a hobby. I don't know if combining hobbies is the best route for me to take. I flew r/c for a very long time, loved flying and hated building.
Things have come a long way with the foam stuff from the likes of hobby zone. The only thing you have to do is throw on the wings and the tail and dropping the battery and away you go.
@@arena_rock_man9030 I remember about 30 years ago a company started the kind of foamy, EZ r/c. Extra 230 with an O.S. 28 was a little monster and I didn't have to worry about one of my super Kaos.