What “Critics” Didn't Get About Sonic 2
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- A critique of the hit movie Sonic The Hedgehog 2 that has slowly morphed into a commentary on modern criticism from the community on youtube to the websites across the internet.
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0:00 - Setting The Stage
3:17 - Sonic 1 & Structure
6:24 - Sonic 2 & Knuckles
12:49 - Closing The Curtain
16:36 - Outro - Krátké a kreslené filmy
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
Cinema sins ruined an entire generation of critiques
Cinemasins? More like Cinemacringe
Did it? I remember people laughing at how hilariously over the top the satire was when the channel first started posting videos back in 2012. It’s the new aged teenagers/late adult mouthbreathers that took it too seriously and are now overly critical about everything. Also, Sonic 2 was a good movie. Not excellent and not trash. A 7 is just about right for it.
Probably my favourite quote from another channel talking about cinema sins "They trade emotional intelligence for intellectual intelligence", they don't care about the actual quality of something and would rather criticise every bit of something without understanding anything about what they're critiquing.
I never too Cinema sins too seriously, always took it as satirical
But cinemasins isnt a critical format, right? They have a video about themselves called "Everything wrong with Cinemasins" where they even say "We're not critics, we're assholes."
I'll never forget one critique was "The movie focused too much on Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles"
Jesus that's like eating an apple pie and saying "it tasted like apples too much"
huh????
You mean you're not supposed to focus on the main characters of your movie? Well shit, give the office Lamp 2 hours of screentime.
Seriously though, I have to say, this is ironic given a common criticism in the games is that there is too many characters, and not enough focus given to the main cast.
@@Kohchu yeah, movie wise the only comparison Is the Transformers movies and probably the last TMNT movies too. Where the main stars are sidelined in their own freakin movie
I just recently saw a review of Sonic 2 by The Vulture or whatever, and one of their only reason for not liking it was that "it had a predetermined outcome". That's incredibly stupid due to all movies having a predetermined outcome because that's how scripts and movie production work. It's basically like saying that you don't like a movie because it's a movie.
I agree about the whole "humans in a Sonic story" argument. There's no reason why they shouldn't exist. If SEGA had kept Sonic's continuity and universe consistent instead of placating to bad critics, and if SEGA of America just went with the original Japanese backstory for Sonic in the first place, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
First, let's look at the Sonic games' universe. Sonic comes from The South Island, a vibrant and somewhat mystical land abundant with nature, and home to hyper-intelligent animals and more primitive critters alike. South Island is split into various zones, some of which include Green Hill, Marble and Labyrinth Zones. You have other islands as well, like Angel Island, but typically, this is how you explain Sonic's animal characters. They come from an island (or series of islands) far off from the rest of human civilization. You can even see on the map where Sonic's home is in relation to human countries in Sonic Adventure 2's level select screen. Sonic's arch-nemesis, Dr Eggman, is an evil scientist hell-bent on capturing animals, trapping them inside robots as their energy source, and seeking the Chaos Emeralds in order to rule over the world, or at the very least, create the Eggman Empire. For anyone asking why humans are in a Sonic story, how do you then explain Dr Eggman? Isn't he human? Why is it only okay for him to be in the story, but not anyone else? Wouldn't that be more ridiculous?
Now here's where problems start to arise. SEGA of America were given free reign to change not only Sonic's design from his more iconic anime-inspired look to the fat, mohawk-wearing looneytoon some westerners grew up with, but also the setting. Sometimes he's from Mobius, an entire universe without humans, but SOMETIMES he's from Nebraska? No, actually, he's from an all-encompassing land called Green Hill... Oh, and they changed Dr Eggman's name to Dr Robotnik, which preferences aside, is indicative of a larger issue with the franchise that would persist all these years later. It wasn't until the Adventure games that SEGA collectively decided to set the record straight and have the Japanese continuity (AKA the originally intended one) be consistent in all regions. Now, Dr Eggman is Dr Eggman, as he should be (with Ivo Robotnik being his irrelevent birth name). Now, Sonic comes from South Island, and we get to see him venture into human settlements on his quest to stop Eggman. NOW, surely everyone's on the same page here, right?
Well, after SEGA's blunders with Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, both they and Sonic Team became afraid of all the ideas remotely associated with those games, even good ones that just needed more time to be thought out. So of course, now Sonic's continuity, setting, and the relation between one another from game to game is up in the air, because it's constantly changing. Now nobody has a clue what the setting of Sonic is anymore. Now, we've got animal people living in streets and villages, despite no other games having that. Now there are no humans, because there were humans in bad Sonic games, therefore they're bad by association.
And now there are ridiculous mandates put on the story and setting writers of these games that prevent any chance of fan-favourite characters like Fang The Sniper from ever returning to the games as a regular villain and much-needed breath of fresh air from the one-dimentional overly-serious roster we have outside of Eggman, instead delegating him to a 5 year old cameo in Sonic Mania. Can't I see Fang causing mayhem on the roads and robbing banks? People running away and screaming as this ugly purple desert-rat drives around on his air bike? Can't I see him set traps for Sonic, sometimes blindside him, and fall for his OWN traps half of the time? I want a fun, greedy, overy-cocky villain like that, who sometimes will even side with Sonic if it means ensuring his own survival, or eventually has the foresight to hire his accomplices Bark and Bean to help make his plans go more smoothly (and save him from himself).
The only reason the Sonic fanbase is as splintered as it is, is because Sonic Team, instead of learning from their mistakes and working to improve, simply side-stepped them and did something else every time. Whenever something goes wrong, they abandon the idea outright. This applies to both the story and gameplay of Sonic games post Heroes. It leaves us with games that are poorly thought-out and all over the place in terms of quality, games that rely on 2D gameplay and nostalgia pandering taking the spotlight away from full 3D game design, and a universe as splintered as its fanbase.
As of writing this, it's 4 and a half years after Sonic Forces' launch. I can only hope Sonic Team have thought about any of this before they started development on their next game. Development on Sonic Frontiers began back in March 2019, so they've had at least 3 years to make this upcoming game good. It's the last straw for me, and if they fail, then SEGA needs to consider hiring a different developer to handle the franchise from then on. Whether they pick RGG Studios, Atlus, an outside developer like Hal Lab, or all three for different projects, I don't know, but if Sonic Frontiers flops, they'll have no choice. Get developers who aren't ashamed in their own legacy, actually have pride in the franchise they're working on, and want to make a game that's faithful to what Sonic IS, rather than what half-hearted critics want it to be.
More importantly, I want Fang The Sniper to return. Please.
It really all does boil down to Sonic team being ashamed of their legacy doesn’t it?
@@acidpain6059 Yup. Instead of sticking to their guns and taking any pride in what they've made, they placate to an audience that never even liked Sonic.
I find it rather laughable many people keep saying humans shouldn't be in a Sonic story. It's like none of them ever played or heard of Sonic Adventure 1 & 2! Heck, without the humans, we wouldn't have got Shadow!
I sadly… jinxed Gilbert Godfrieds death by suggesting he play Fang the day before he died.
Even gave a good dialogue idea since Sonic might make a connection between his attire and Indiana Jones:
S “let me guess, it belongs in a museum?”
F “*laughs* No, it belongs in my BANK ACCOUNT!”
And sadly, I will never hear that sort of perfection.
Sonic was born in Christmas Island.
It pleases me to hear someone didn’t think the bar scene in the second film was pointless. I, too, believe it was meant to help grow the bond between Tails and Sonic.
It also established Tails' cloning hologram ability for later.
Plus, Uptown Funk is banger and Sonic and Tails's Super Sonic Dancing was awesome, those moves fit so well with the characters
The only pointless scene was the entire wedding scene. I'd rather not have random woman power moment put into a video game movie when it is relegated to a side character for so long.
I felt like it went on a little too long personally, but it was definitely far from a pointless scene. It's kind of necessary to show how best friends became such good friends.
As a critic myself a lot of other critics don't need to just touch grass but eat an entire football field I love the Sonic movies because they were faithful
Truer words have never been spoken, it's like most critics walk into a movie with expectations higher than Mount Everest
It's amazing how many small details the movie writers snuck in. There's a nod to Knuckles' favourite food being grapes.
the ONLY issue I have with the movie and its representation of sonic as a whole is the music. i don't expect to hear live and learn, but when the soundtrack is just an ordinary orchestral score with a licensed bruno mars song, it hurts. it really stings.
aaaand. the human family dynamic. it ties into the whole thing where sonic seems more like a kid than the cool, adventure loving dude from the games.
@@JetRevueI dont understand why y'all hated Sonic having a family so much
Don't you remember he straight up lost his motherly figure? I expected the movies to go in a direction where Sonic receives a human family. This isn't the games, also he is still cool and adventure loving. In fact, the kid aspect of him only furthers the cool adventure loving thing. There were so many things in the movie where he had that cool attitude.
In the games he doesn't really care that he doesn't have a father or mother though. In some continuities that is Dr. Robotnik. He just kind of does his own thing. He's my least favorite char in the series anyway. I like every other char more and Shadow is a better alternative.
Of course you want your adventure nostalgia pandering
I'm actually hoping we might get some proper Sonic music in the third movie, but it seems unlikely.
As far as the voice acting for knuckles, Idris Elba was a good fit. It's still weird to recast characters with established voice actors, but the sonic franchise has a diverse history of voice actors in the many cartoons. Also, with the reveal came actual footage of what he would sound like. The pick made sense so there was basically no backlash. Weird move, but it turned out ok.
Mario being Chris Pratt, on the other hand, came out of nowhere. Mario has had the same voice actor since super Mario 64 and we haven't had a mario show in a very long time, so replacing Charles is completely unexpected. Couple that with the pre existing hate for Chris Pratt, his lack of any Mario like qualities, and not even a teaser of what he's going to sound like and you've got a well deserved shit storm on your hands.
Same here! With Idris Elba’s voice, you can really associate the “stoic yet naive” personality he gives Knuckles. Also the last Sonic voice actor retired. So, there were reasons on trying to get others. And they still had Colleen voice tails so at least it’s not full on A-list celebrity cast.
@@VelvetCamn The Sonic voice for the 2010s Sonic games came back. He retired for like a month before he was re-hired. He didn't really ever leave and will voice the character in Frontiers and onwards. In terms of Sonic VAs, the franchise can be divided into 4 distinct eras including:
-The Classic Era. During this era Sonic's voice was not yet established, so every time Sonic appeared he would have a different voice. Sonic didn't talk in the games due to system limitations, but there was a singular VA for all the Sonic cartoons including aosth, Sonic satAM, and Sonic Underground.
-The Adventure Era. This is when the games started having consistent voice acting, the same cast voicing the characters between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Heroes, also voicing the characters in Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Advance 1, and various others.
-The Dark/4Kids Era. Due to the success of the Sonic X anime dubbed by 4kids, the entire adventure era cast was replaced with the 4kids cast from the Sonic X anime to better match with the show. This team subbed every single Sonic game between Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic and the Black Knight, also voicing the characters in Sonic Advance 2, Sonic 06, Sonic Battle, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Chronicles, and Sonic and the Black Knight.
The modern era: After 4kid's license ran out after Sonic and the Black Knight, SEGA hired a new voice cast which was very controversial, first starting in the infamous Sonic Free Riders and continuing to voice the characters to this day. These include the games Sonic Colors, Colors DS, Generations, Generations 3D, Lost World, Lost World 3D, the boom Trilogy, the Sonic boom TV show, Sonic forces, Sonic prime, and Sonic Frontiers.
@@krimsonkatt thanks for the clear up and in-depth on the va history. Never knew that much 👍
@@krimsonkatt I didn't realize all the shows before sonic X had the same voice actors
I think the other thing that has a big difference between the Sonic movies with their VA changes compared to the sudden change in Mario's actor for the Mario movie is that - as far as we know - none of the other VAs in the game's cast were advertised as having bit parts...whereas Charles Martinet, the man who has been voicing Mario since *_1994_*__, _was_ advertised as having bit parts _instead_ of his most iconic role. That tidbit of information alone almost felt like a slap in the face...even *if* it was a decision that Martinet chose himself.
In a world where everything wants to be different and failing at it, it's nice to see Sonic being itself and not sucking ass at it for once.
Star Trek Strange New Worlds is doing a great job at feeling like Star Trek TOS era its fantastic so far.
That's why I gave up on writing as a career
Sonic continues being a cool rebel by not conforming to the norm of hating your own fans.
I disagree on the voice acting part. Yes it was awesome to hear Colleen voice tails in the movie! But Idris Elba as Knuckles in this continuity Works really well. Idris really hits that “stoic tough guy yet naive” voice that fits Knuckles in this movie.
Ben Schwartz as Sonic fits into this continuity as well. A young and still learning Sonic. He literally says in the movie “I got more growing up to do”.
Plus, Roger Craig Smith retired from playing Sonic. So they had to get some new people.
Roger Craig Smith is still the current voice of Sonic actually. He returned back in May of last year. He voiced him as recently as the Tails Tube video back in March.
@@CondesaDaraku yeah I just found out. Thanks for the update
My only gripe about knuckles is they make him seem too stupid. In his original rendition he was more cunning than sonic and tails. Constantly getting a 1 up on them throughout the entire game. Until he gets betrayed due to his naivety at the end. Basically they highlight his flaw too much and make him seem like a muscle bound idiot in every other scene. I guess it wouldn't be unlike his more recent cartoon appearance, but that's my least favorite version of the char. xD
I think Sonic Movie 2 works so well is that they took to heart the “familiar yet different” approach most great adaptations do. There a lot of plot elements and references from the games, but they are differences that help flesh out this universe of Sonic, and even gives added context to things even the original games didn’t have.
My problem with Chris Pratt is that he's apparently not even going to do a fake Italian accent. It's just not Mario without a goofy accent.
Mario and Luigi used to talk like regular individuals with Brooklyn accents back in the 80s and 90s, since they’re from Brooklyn, New York, which is why they casted Chris Pratt and Charlie Day to voice them. WWE wrestler, Captain Lou Albano, and Danny Wells were the OG Mario bothers. Anyway, if they go with the voices from the games, I feel it’s not gonna fit; it would be kinda weird and annoying. Video games and movies are two totally different things; Mario and Luigi, and other characters from the games didn’t have that much dialogue. A movie needs dialogue.
To that point you made about the Mario movie and the celebrity voice cast, the reason it comes off as an issue is because Mario characters don't talk and have pretty one note personalities, so to cast a celebrity voice cast for characters we've never heard speak full sentences seems REALLY jarring. The reason it's not a problem with Sonicis cause we've heard these characters talk for over 20 years now, and they've switched voice actors all throughout that time, so this is essentially the same idea especially since the movie industry likes to keep their people for the voices. Part of it may have to do with people hating Chris Pratt, but I think that's the main reason why
I have a feeling that because Sonic 2 did so well, we're gonna start seeing other companies making movies based on video game series, but unlike with Sonic 2 they won't understand that you're supposed to respect the source material. I mean think about it, the Minecraft movie that has clearly been in development hell suddenly got a new actor after Sonic 2 came out, it could just be a coincidence though.
Sonic has always been one of those series, that even in when it fails you can tell a lot of heart went into it, and certain people just want to shit on it, too shit on it (looking at you game grumps). I haven't seen the second movie yet, nor have I seen any reviews for it, but you can usually tell the difference between people who are criticizing something because they want it it to be better and people who are haters.
Love that use of a Monogatari clip.
Monogatari is the perfect example of a series that takes every rule of what you SHOULD NOT do in fiction and story telling, and proudly flaunting it, not because the writer was bad, but because the writer understood exactly the rules for storytelling and how to break them!
But yeah Western Storytelling has always been traditionally about very tight external conflict moving a plot along while a lot of eastern storytelling the conflict is more intrapersonal with conflict being an excuse for the character's journey's rather than the focus, its why there are so much Slice of Life anime and a lot of Western Anime Fans that don't understand why you'd want to engage with a story where "Nothing Happens."
To the point where even a relatively Adventure Oriented Property like Sonic gets under fire for deviated from accepted Hollywood screen writing in the slightest.
The only point I disagree is that Johnny made a very well produced video on it while Arlo didn’t, and continued to not take the L for it.
This person right here speaks the truth
Your statement of media having "some hiccups here and there, but other aspects make up for it," is an extremely important mine mindset when reviewing a work.
Have you read "Goodbye, Eri" by chance?
Knuckles was not an idiot. He’s naive, there’s a difference.
I feel like the biggest advantage that sonic has is that it's lore is kind of all over the place: on a game to game basis things can change with only a few roots being permanent and the comics and shows stretching things further. You just really need to know that Sonic is good and runs fast, Tails can fly, is smart, and is sonic's friend, and Eggman is an evil roboticist and anyone else who shows up is either a rival or friendly to sonic with it being immediately apparent who's what.
Sonic 2 the movie really does feel like they took all the problems people had with Sonic 1, fixed them, and then gave us an actually REALLY good Sonic movie. I agree that the Wedding Scene is still pretty bad but I'd say it's the scene you can tell people 'thats when you can go to the bathroom' since all you miss out on is GUN's introduction and even then that only matters for the stinger which you can put 2 and 2 together pretty quickly.
I honestly liked the human scenes even the wedding included. It sets up GUN which is from the games as well as being pretty funny and keeping continuity and making callbacks to the first film and how those relationships developed. I think I’m the only one with this opinion though lol
You're not alone my dude.
@@inendlesspain4724 a man of culture
I agree. I thought the final wedding scene was the funniest in the movie. Plus it helped set up GUN for the third movie so that's cool.
Something I really liked about Sonic 2 is the fact that Jeff Smith seems to REALLY understand set up and pay off.
For instance, the scene where Tom messes around with the wedding rings comes back later when he realizes he accidentally mixed them up.
@@TF2Fan101 yeah, I didn’t think about him doing that magic trick until they asked for the ring at the wedding and realized what was coming lol
I love that they got knuckles right!
Hes stoic. Brave. A knuckle headed badass but hes extremely BLUNT. not d u m b. Blunt. But he o w n s it.
Sonic boom even though i love it for its humour made knuckles into a borderline idiot and id like to view boom knuckles and the usual knuckles as seperate characters which suceed in its respective roles of potraying a character. But GOD do i love Idris Elba as knuckles. He REALLY got his feel right
Ikr! This is the ideal depiction of Knuckles.
also, I like how tails and knuckles are fast, but not like fast as sonic,
I really loved this depiction of Knuckles really reminded me of the Klingons from Star Trek.
Didn’t realize Turkey Tom did a vid on this. I thought the most reviled video on Sonic 2 was by Grover’s deadbeat cousin.
This was the most sane/level headed critique of the movie I’ve heard
Didn’t care what they said, I loved this movie to death
Listen Dimitri, you don't get it, Critics had a rough transition into the internet! Smh
This was great.
I agree with you that even outside of the film quality, the producers of Sonic film deserve praise for not antagonizing fans like so many other series have done the past couple years.
I'm happy Sonic 2 turned out as well as it did. Has me really pumped for Sonic 3, especially after the mid credit tease. :)
So is Knuckles a himbo? Asking for a friend...I'm friend...
I don't care too much for the opinions of critics when it come to things like the Sonic movies. These movies are very clearly trying to appeal to Sonic fans and kids.
"Sonic's cool factor made it feel like a Shonen." Well Sonic was considered a Shonen video game series in japan from 1992-2009 and Naoto Oshima and Yuji Uewaka both said that when designed Sonic they took heavy inspiration from Akira Toriyama.
“7.8- Too much water.”
-IGN
🎩
🐍no step on Snek! 🇺🇸🇭🇰
Sonic 2 is everything I wanted from the movie when they first announced it. Sonic 1 is a good set up and probably “better” from a movie point of view, but Sonic 2 took that initial set up and went balls to the walls with it. Tails and Sonic developing there friendship (my personal highlight of the movie), Knuckles being treated with respect, being a badass but naive due to years of isolation, Jim Carrey going full on with Dr Robotnick is a delight, Tom and Sonics relationship has not been forgotten and has developed to the point were Sonic see’s Tom as a father figure with the same likeable chemistry they had in the first movie. All of this is what I wanted from the sequel and personally I am satisfied with it, to the point I would much rather watch this movie anytime because as much as I like Sonic 1 I get everything I wanted from the sequel, hence why I think it’s a more superior movie even though the first one was narratively better.
Actually, I think Chris Pratt was hated so much upon reveal he would be voicing Mario because he isn't Mario. Ben and Idris work because they actually nail the voices, I don't think Roger and the current Knuckles would work as these versions. I don't really see Chris Pratt working as Mario to be completely honest, and it's a pretty goofy idea for him of all people to be chosen, with the slap in the face being Charles Martinet already being apart of the cast.
does the mario even really need a voice cast? i mean think about it the characters don't talk that much in the games most of the dialogue they really say are character names they could just have the game actors do noises for the characters and through out the movie we can tell what the characters are thinking by their facial expressions.
and also the voice cast choices while really weird is the least of my concerns for this movie my biggest concern is that its being mad by illumination of all studios if they have the toads or goombas act like the minions i'm walking out the theater.
The wedding scene is about 10 minutes, I timed it
Also, I cringe every time CZcamsrs call Maddie “Tom’s girlfriend” like why? Why do so many people do this? They’re married!
The wedding scene is like shoving a quarter of a Judd Apatow movie into the president's limo scene in Sonic Adventure 2.
Great video! I know I'm probably in the wrong camp but my favorite scene in the movie was the bar one. I think the sheer stupidity of someone having a tattoo of themself in their chest was so funny to me that I laughed the whole day. I think that there's a argument to be made that silliness is just as much a part of the Sonic brand as is collness.
I hate this idea that fans are "entitled" like....do these people know who fans are?
We pay your bills
We make *you* famous
We make these properties the way they are! So here's my thing
You say that fans are entitled? Well y'all ain't entitled to *our* money
"Social media has made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting fans and not losing your job for it" -Mike Tyson, maybe
It's the job of creators to give people what they didn't know they wanted. And yes there is a point it becomes entitlement cause look at how they act in regards to shows they get to watch for free on the internet.
Try being a fan of a show and requesting some black or gay representation for a existing franchise.
Yeah, see how fans of Elden Ring reacted to fans requesting more customization for their avatars hair style.
No.
Because there needs to be a balance. A mutual respect between content creator and audience.
We shouldn't even trust the Rotten Tomatoes critic scores. They reviewed bombed on the first movie while the audience score was high.
My only true issue with the movie is that we never hear about Sonic's feelings on 9/11
I think people now are starting to believe that level of being a fan of a property correlates with how good the product is and honestly you guys are focus on small statements for failed adaptations and not the actual product. Cowboy Bebop clearly had admiration for the original but sadly they didn't have the talent to execute on it when they weren't trying to force everything to a series structure that was more familiar for them and not good for the series, and Halo well that's still developing which I've heard good and bad from so I'll let it rest but I think you guys are forgetting that being a fan helps, like it's certainly helped Sonic but these things are always gonna come down to a good script and/or quality execution, that's why Sonic is doing so well because after those necessary adjustments these films have had really solid stories building on their version of the blue blur and having him grow in turn
Being a fan doesn't, convert to a great movie or show but skilled craftsmanship from someone who understands why it work and what THEY can do with it. Because you never want a Terraformers
Wait...what? Sonic not growing as a, how is he not...where do they...GAHHHH! What are they expecting here, for Sonic to suddently go from heroic to "I'm depressed. Whoa is me." Or for him to go, "I learned humanity is evil now, I must become a jerk" or some other cockamany out of character failure to live up to the series bullcrap?
Honestly, the movie is fine, and I appreciated what it had. I just think it relied too heavily on pop culture references and didn't put enough time into pacing the development of the characters. Knuckles did have appreciable development though. Everyone else felt rather flat, and Tails felt largely ignored by the story due to being knocked out for a long while. The attempts at humor during downtime felt poorly paced or stiff because each of them felt like they were trying to hard to grasp my attention by either being referential or "lol random" or overused, and there was no fluid incorporation of those elements. For example, the "dot dot dot" joke from Knuckles felt like it overstayed its welcome after the first five, especially when everyone went silent to give him the forefront. Flossing was a double tap of being referential and overused. And nobody really liked it when Robotnik said "Later, haters!" during his 'death' fall.
Ok but I still think the wedding scene is fine. Sue me.
I'd argue the "Bird mom" was a loose throwback to the OVA
Actually Knuckles being dumb is technically unfaithful to his original because in the manual in StH3, he is described as intelligent.
English manuals notorious contradict the games, knuckles is very clearly tricked in multiple adventures including s3 and often referred to as "knucklehead" and other such things by the rest of the cast. It's very obvious character trait.
Hes essentially a hermit it only makes sense for him to be somewhat clueless, espically when it comes to people.
@@DimitriMonroe I said ORIGINAL, it doesn't matter what anything after S3 implies or says, I'm just purely talking about how he's supposed to be portrayed by his original writer(s), he is dumb now, but he wasn't supposed to be, just like how Shadow is edgy now but his original writer didn't want him to be.
@@DimitriMonroe If foreign countries to the original changes something/stuff, it is not canon. Knuckles is dumb now but not according to S3.
@@DimitriMonroe The trick thing is understandable the first time, because how would he know that Eggman is evil in S3? in S3 he has been on the floating island ever since he was born! How could he get any news?
i almost never go out to movie theares nowa days but i did go out to see this one and i legit enjoyed it, it was just fun , fun enough where i could overlook any perceived "flaws" in it and if a thing isnt fun or enjoyable then why do it?, i honstly hope the sucess of these movies are a wake up call to upcoming adaptations of future franchises
@Stephen O'Brien If I'm going to watch a movie, I want to enjoy it. I don't want to force myself to sit through something I loathe just to give money to a studio that made a possibly terrible movie. If I enjoy a movie, it's a decent or good movie in my book, and if I love a movie, then it's a great movie to me.
Ian’s working on frontiers? I’m so excited. Despite my lack of exposure to the comics, his writing is amazing.
Ok off topic but Sonic getting so excited about that high five he ran in circles was cute.
0:47 sorta a misquote the showrunner was moreso addressing the issues with turning a game into a tv series and how they tried to avoid any limitations it might cause and that changes have to be made. This is fine and true I mean just look at how different the books are....to bad the silver timeline is 100x less unique than the mainline one
9:02 it's because nobody cares about Sonics voice but fans. It's why they've always been quick to just replace them. Mario doesn't talk much but he has an iconic voice and specific catch phrases, anyone who comes in afterwards has to at least be able to imitate. He's like Mickey Mouse or Scooby-Doo. Sonics catch phrase isn't even something he ever used to say and went from being this ironic thing making fun of the 4kids theme song to actually being his catchphrase. The general public isn't going to care about Tails having his game voice, I imagine the vast majority of people who play the games don't either.
Wait but isn't that his sister in the "good" wedding scene?
Good vid Dimitri. My only advice to the makers of 3rd movie is show the humans even less and focus more on their adaption version of
Adventure 2.
But that needs more humans not less
but if your adapting Adventure 2, you'll need more humans, not less(you are aware of Maria?)
@@prufan Maria and Gerald is the exception and you can show humans. Just not all the time.
I don't forgive them for changing the "do I look like I need your power" scene
It wasn’t a change, you just saw a hook that was made for a trailer.
I will say, and maybe this has already been said in the comments, but in the case of Ben Schwartz has VA'd before he did the part of Movie Sonic. Most notably to me, Dewey in the 2017 Ducktales cartoon. So to me, the comparison to the Mario Movie celebrity casting feels a bit unfair. I don't know if Idris Alba has done VA work before, and I wasn't certain about him until I read interviews about the role. But Ben? I knew from experience that he could play a "different kind of Sonic" from his previous VA work
It's not really about their quality, I think the movie performances are fine. it's just the general disrespect VAs get in the industry, being treated as disposable when studios can just slap recognizable names on instead.
@@DimitriMonroe That is absolutely true, and you're right to make that point. I guess what I'm saying is, as a rock person who doesn't pay attention to celebrities or live action acting, it was more like a regular change of voice roles than anything to do with "using a big name to draw attention". Was it disrespectful to Ryan Drummond for Sonic's VA to change to Jason Griffith? That sort of thing. And hey! If the voice actors for Sonic and Knuckles were changed for "celebrity bait", do you think it actually worked? :O Genuinely asking for curiosity, I don't know much about the demographics of who actually came out to see these movies.
Sonic the movie 3 and knuckles better be the third movie's title
6:42 You think THIS is a good wedding scene? I guess it's a good wedding scene if you're from central Alabama or somewhere else where banjos are heard if you stand still too long. Otherwise? Fucking yikes.
In my opinion the wedding scene wasn’t really that bad it had a good amount of funny moments but the worst scene in this movie is between Dr. Egg Man’s assistant and Toms friend that was an unnecessary scene
I think Jim Carrey is doing a great job setting up Eggman for the third movie with the trust issues schtick, which may loop back to what was done to his grandfather and cousin.
I’m glad this video was made. I find that people were greatly missing the point of the movie and I think having follow up videos on people not liking your opinion is really unnecessary.
While I would have preferred VAs across the board, I think Schwartz was probably the best fit from the pool of Hollywood actors out there, today (save for bringing back Jaleel White, since as years pass, the music of classic Sonic is a lot of R&B)
If I were to cast an actor for Knuckles, it would've been someone like Ernie Dingo, but Idris Elba, having a British accent is a close second.
Having said that, the obsession with hiring well known, or trending actors, was something Robin Williams took issue with as being the selling point of Aladdin. He was happy to do it, but he didn't want Disney to market the movie with him front and centre. We saw the movies he moved into after that.
What I didn't get is why the wedding scene was 10 minutes longer than it needed to be
6:24 Yeah, there you go
I know this has basically nothing to do with the topics of this video, but I feel the immense need to point out that Godzilla movies have pretty much always been about the humans who have to deal with a giant lizard, not the lizard itself. I know that the Hollywood can't write genuine human drama beyond the overused sad dad stuff, but the proper Godzilla movies make the human drama actually interesting.
Like Shin Godzilla is mostly just people talking, but that movie gets Godzilla in a way Legendary never could and it's actually interesting to follow the human drama. Another good recent one is the anime movie trilogy, though that one has Urobutcher's handprints all over it. But with the cancellation of Shin Godzilla's sequel, the Legendary's Godzilla has become the main Godzilla (for now, anyway) and that's kinda sad to me.
Sorry for the unrelated rant, I just really like Godzilla.
Yeah. That's also a problem with "focusing too much on Sonic, Tails and Knuckles". It MEANS it's like Godzilla vs. Kong, though not AS bad, where all the CINEMATIC drama, this is a film, remember, comes in the form of a monkey grimacing. It REDUCES sonic tails and Knuckles somewhat into catchphrases, who don't have much to say interacting with anyone ELSE. That's how Sonic 1 doesn't focus "too much" on Sonic, but on how Sonic interacts.
That argument is roughly what "critical" means, you think critically, because you actually LIKE FILMS, so you criticize FILMS, not "anything as long as it has Sonic in it". You don't rate a flimsy plastic chair over a luxury couch because there's a Sonic print on it. Meanwhile "fans" give a lot lower score to Hop than to Sonic 1, when it's the SAME damn film. Because they understand so little about critique, they call critics "critics" in quotation marks. That is LITERALLY as much of a critic as critic could be to be CALLED a critic.
Typically it's usually been Godzilla or Godzilla vs something that represented a disaster in Japan and the human aspect was always how the cast had to deal with it. I think most westerners are used to the Destroy All Monster line where its "hehe turn brain off and watch monsters duke it out with minimal human interaction."
Knuckles isn't an idiot, he just doesn't know how to read people. With all due respect, calling a character who just doesn't understand social cues and norms "kind of an idiot" and "a dunce" is very rude and disrespectful to a large portion of the population, including me.
Bit of a counterpoint to the game VAs thing. If you didn’t watch the Boom cartoon, or you’ve only seen a few clips, then your impression of the current cast will likely be informed by, well, the games. With Pontaff writing that holds everyone back. The actors are iconic in the cartoon, and also miles better there, but Sonic is a video game franchise first. It’s entirely possible there’s an audience that knows Roger as the guy who shouts every other line, or the current Knuckles voice as a decent Dan Green impersonator.
It is incredibly hilarious that you destroyed LS Mark by just calling him "middling". That's barely even an insult and yet it hits so hard.
Great video that I actually almost didn't watch simply because I am a bit adaptation fatigued and I have never cared much about Sonic as a byproduct of just not playing much from most of his games as I was growing up the way I did with Mario or Megaman
Especially the talk about VAs, which did make me think about I never quite understood why everyone was hating on Pratt that much when, for me, the most questionable casting choice was Jack Black, not because I dislike him FAR from it, but simply because I can't really think of the pitch of his voice being particularly suited for the big deep voiced menacing lizard
Not to mention that given the other cast choices, it's fairly clear they're going for a comedy and, like it or not, Pratt is one of the bigger names who have a comedy background right now
I agree with most of the things in this video, but I have to ask, what's the issue with people pointing out the issue with gun and the wedding. The point of the scene was to introduce gun, not necessarily a man on the inside. The introduction could have been better, but my issue isn't necessarily that gun knew or didn't know that sonic was going to show up which I mean is a reasonable assumption on gun's part considering sonic is usually around Donut Lord, but my greater issue is the pacing. It grinds to a halt just so we can get some funny haha scenes with the sister but other than that it introduces gun but like I said that could have been done better.
Oh...did they try and make monster movies like zombie movies?
Lol, as a sonic fan. The movie was a solid 5.
I'm here because of the Oreimo reference, I stayed because it was actually a good critique video about Sonic 2 & the "critics" of it
Th only human characters I wanna spend time with for any amount of time is Tom his wife Maddie and Robotnik cause they actually matter in the grand scheme of things lol Maddie’s crazy sister and her wedding don’t matter lol
I loved sonic 2 but if we have an earth trilogy and a moebius trilogy that leans more into comic and cartoon lore that could be a fun long game
3:18 I straight up thought this was a clip from the 1st movie till my eyes panned to the left lmao
If I'm being honest, I probably wouldn't like the films as much as I do if Roger voiced Sonic in them, not to say that I hate Rogers take on Sonic I like it, as the Game Force for Sonic, but as for movie Sonic I vastly prefer the voice Ben gives him.
The GUN critique is pretty interesting to me since I think a lot of people missed the fact that they setup the wedding in order to capture sonic to begin with. Him not showing up at first wasn't a part of the plan but if they had just suddenly called things off right away it would've been suspicious.
Hey is back good to see you and keep up the great work
I gotta watch the Sonic OVA again. The music, animation, set pieces and Toei Sonic all of it is just chef's kiss. Edit: Toei Sonic and OVA Sonic look really similar but are different I got that mixed up
On point as always, holy shit. I've been so fucking bothered by all these negative reviews acting like Sonic 2 drawing a lot of influence from the games is a bad thing. Fuck, at one point I even saw someone COMPLAIN about the fact that Tails is still voiced by Colleen O'Shaughnessey, because it "emphasizes the kiddiness of the whole affair" which is itself a ridiculous complaint.
Side note; god now I really want to play Sonic Adventure again.
Is Monroe refering to critics from Rotten Tomatoes? I thought we shouldn't trust the critics score of that site.
What's your opinion on sonic forces?
7:19
I always thought it was implied the Echidnas were fighting against another Echidna tribe, so they ended up abusing the power of the emeralds. Idk, I think that came from a source either IDW comics or word of mouth from the creators.
I don’t think all of the people that were at the premiere was paid. I know a couple were just invited due to them mentioning it at in the video
Rewatched the video again and I gotta disagree with some parts of the video but it’s still a decent watch 7/10
Good review. I saw the first one and thought it was a fun movie, which is what it needed to be. This is making me want to watch Sonic 2, so...heck yeah!
Now do a video on Bebop Netflix (and why Death Note Netflix is actually the best adaptation of a series)
Haven't seen the movie yet but it seems like it's better than the first one and nails the characters to a T and that's all I need to know.
Besides, I have other questions such as Dimitri did you have an SAO-related video by any chance? It feels like it was something like that on your channel but it's gone, the again maybe my mind is going fuzzy.
I wonder what is gonna happen with Dr Egmann/Robotnik considering that Jim Carrey wants to retire from acting now. Is Egmann gonna get shelved?
that was a very good critic from you. nice
There’s no such thing as a Western Hemisphere, it’s north and south
It's good that I got to see the film myself, then this video comes out
Ls mark did not say it was a bad thing he said it was a good sonic movie but not a good movie
I thought this was a video about SA2 ngl. Such an unfairly misaligned game when it's actually pretty good.
Wonderful review I had a nice time with this movie. B+ is what I gave this movie it really focused on the world building and character development. Better then the first film.
Look at chadroe, being CORRECT once again. Not some rando hoping on the hype adding their useless and just blantely incorrect "critiques." This is a true and proper analysis of the sonic movies by an ACTUAL FAN,WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
I can’t remember subscribing (why was my brain about to make me write „surprising“ instead of „subscribing“ 🤦🏻) you 😅 but I like you!
6:40
Thank you for creating this video.
2 videos in q year god
Yes I love the sonic ova and it's so underated.
Gotta say, I personally enjoyed the movie more than the first. I'm not a huge sonic fan but I grew up with the sonic x cartoon from 4kids. Was very fun. Also sonic outfit twink Dimitri is top tier
I actually thought she ment god in thumpnail that he is pathetic but nope she ment someone
Even the wedding scene, as meh, as it is, have it's place in the plot because it introduces G.U.N. which was a big part of Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 06. Could they have handled the introducton in a different, better way? Absolutely, but at the very least, the wedding scene wasn't made just to be an irrelevant break from the action and plot.
Another problem I'll put on audience's for these movies even if they are good is that they're not in to take in the creator's ride as it is but from the get go pick at why it's not what they wanted
It makes these movies only products for only this one thing and anything else that was not on my order please get it off my plate