"What If I'M TERRIFIED of GETTING BETTER?" ep.175
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2024
- This week licensed therapist Kati Morton talks about the reasons we can be scared to get better, and why having our mental illness be part of our identity is detrimental to our recovery. She also addresses the reasons we should change therapists, how termination should be handled, and what to do if therapy is making us worse. Kati then digs into how to stop comparing ourselves to others, why it’s okay to be behind other people in life, and when she would suggest a higher level of care.
Ask Kati Anything ep.175 | Your mental health podcast, with Kati Morton, LMFT
Audience questions:
Q1 0:38 I’m terrified of getting better. I’m suffering from gad, social anxiety, depression and self harm. I think the reason I’m afraid of healing is related to why I’m hurting myself...
Q2 15:53 I recently terminated with my therapist after two years. I felt that I wasn't making any progress towards my goals and when I asked for feedback (which she has never offered), she responded, "I can't work harder than you are."
Q3 30:58 I feel incredibly lonely and behind in life. Every birthday and new year reminds me of that. I struggle so much with birthdays due to having struggled with my mental health for so long...
Q4 37:50 How do I get myself to actually try coping mechanisms? I have a list but because they don't always help or I have this magical idea that they will make everything better...
Q5 41:26 My question is about when you as a therapist would suggest a higher level of care for a patient with an eating disorder, specifically over exercise as a form of compensatory behavior.
Q6 57:55 I have a question about emdr. I'm finally starting in august (yay!) but I'm so scared of actually, really facing my trauma head on in therapy. I don't even know how I will tell/write my therapist...
Q7 1:11:03 What if I don’t see a reason to stop self harm this time? Context: I began SH when I was 8. It wasn’t my “go to” coping skill....
Q8 1:15:49 Why in therapy do you not want a religious counselor? Have you been harmed by church people or is it a personal decision? I recently went through some personal church trauma...
Timestamps provided by @natalieedelstein THANKS NATALIE!
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I keep sabotaging my progress because i'm not used to feeling "normal"
Same here
I sabotage too but in my case I mostly feel like I don't deserve it
same! It’s like my brain says “hey you’re starting to feel better…let’s change that!”
@@eshrogomg me too and I have literally worked my self up into a panic attack.
@@eshrogthought it was just me who felt like this. Majority of my life, I was a sociable person but when it seems like I’m having too much fun-something bad happens. Or, I end up becoming a recluse again. It’s like, I’m not deserving of being happy and light within my body.
Q1 0:38 I’m terrified of getting better. I’m suffering from gad, social anxiety, depression and self harm. I think the reason I’m afraid of healing is related to why I’m hurting myself...
Q2 15:53 I recently terminated with my therapist after two years. I felt that I wasn't making any progress towards my goals and when I asked for feedback (which she has never offered), she responded, "I can't work harder than you are."
Q3 30:58 I feel incredibly lonely and behind in life. Every birthday and new year reminds me of that. I struggle so much with birthdays due to having struggled with my mental health for so long...
Q4 37:50 How do I get myself to actually try coping mechanisms? I have a list but because they don't always help or I have this magical idea that they will make everything better...
Q5 41:26 My question is about when you as a therapist would suggest a higher level of care for a patient with an eating disorder, specifically over exercise as a form of compensatory behavior.
Q6 57:55 I have a question about emdr. I'm finally starting in august (yay!) but I'm so scared of actually, really facing my trauma head on in therapy. I don't even know how I will tell/write my therapist...
Q7 1:11:03 What if I don’t see a reason to stop self harm this time? Context: I began SH when I was 8. It wasn’t my “go to” coping skill....
Q8 1:15:49 Why in therapy do you not want a religious counselor? Have you been harmed by church people or is it a personal decision? I recently went through some personal church trauma...
It was so kind of you to write up each of the questions. Thank you so much! ❤
@@jewelsbarbie I just copy-pasted them from the description tbh and added the time stamps :) glad it was helpful though
Thank you!
@@jennadee6761 you're welcome :)
Yeah I’m terrified of getting better because that’s the unknown and the unfamiliar. I’m also tired of talking about my trauma and reopening the wounds again and again.
I know the opinion of an internet stranger isn't worth much, but I wanted to tell you that I really appreciate the way you addressed the last question about religion/religious trauma. I was a bit worried when I first saw it. I have seen/heard many people bash specific religions or religion in general because of their own negative experiences. I appreciate you acknowledging that one person's bad experience doesn't automatically negate religion as a whole and that we "hear" and interpret our religious experiences (any experiences, really) through our own lenses. It always makes me sad when someone is harmed by something that is supposed to help and uplift, and I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing your own experiences without in any way passing judgment on others.
I started crying right away as you answered the question about being afraid to heal. I relate 1,000%. Thank you so much. ❤
I relate to this so much. The minute I start making progress or actually feel “happy” I completely sabotage it and make myself worse because I feel completely alone without suffering. After suffering for 18 years I have no identity away from mental illness.
I'm going try to make this as succinct as possible (however, i do struggle with brevity.) So, I'm 39 years old and have been diagnosed with: BPD features, bipolar 1, bipolar 2, social anxiety disorder, GAD, MDD, ADHD, PTSD diagnoses that somewhat explain a lot of what I've gone through and the sequelae. At the same time, the excessive number and contractory diagnosis had made me doubtful as far as whether they're valid diagnoses.
What happened was, after being dismissed from a pharmacy program months before finishing my doctorate, I was devastated and didn't want to talk or interact with anyone. However, the full picture is that I felt incapable of socializing, felt misunderstood, and didn't feel much emotion for anyone. Also, I've always received little attention from my family, so i didn't want to subject myself to a situation that makes feel insignificant.
I've been lonely and a loner for most of my life. I isolated myself in my garage then my bedroom for 16 hours a day, speaking only a few words all day, and just falling my logic, reason, and insight slip with each passing day. This has been going on for about 5 years (though I used to seclude before that period.) I feel I've regressed to a point where I'm completely dominated by the emotional part of my brain. Even if I'm not, I still feel incapable of acting or speaking in a way that isn't emotional.
My personal and social identities have disappeared... I don't remember how it feels to be 39, capable of carrying conversations that lost more than a few words. What I believe might be a loss of intelligence (I had a decent 120 IQ) is really chipping away at my confidence, because it was very important to my self confidence and just something I valued about myself. Also bears mentioning that I'm very paranoid (I think this is related to my deteriorating cognitive abilities), I don't have any friends, and no hobbies. What do you think could be going on? What kind of therapy would you Recommend for this situation? Finally, is it possible to return to my previous level of functioning?
Seems like paranoia is a result of your isolation. Actually, everything you mentioned is a result of it and WILL INTENSIFY if you keep isolated. You could try CBT to get some increased exposure to your “previous” life. It WILL be uncomfortable and will feel odd and you’ll want to criticize yourself like you’re in a judging competition like America’s Next Top Model (lol). Avoid doing that. Just… do the work. Trust the process. We’re ALL a bit uncomfortable, a bit odd, a but silly when interacting with people. It’s what it is. And it’s fine. It’s funny, not a fail. If you have ANYTHING around your house where you can go to say a few words everyday, GO THERE. Think of it as an investment in yourself. Do you have a Starbucks near you? Go there everyday and buy a simple cup of coffee. Do greet your cashier. Say Hello/Hey/Good Morning and ask them how they are. Don’t bother too much into reading how they respond to you. Just do this task. It’s a task, like a video game you’re trying to reach the end of that level and you gotta try a few different moves. Get your coffee, make sure to say “Thank you, have a great day” to the person who gives you the coffee. Being polite and kind is part of the task.
Now, maybe in the first 2 weeks you may think it’s too much to sit at a table there and just read a book. That’s ok. Take your coffee and walk home and consider that a Win, a building stone to what will become your path back to being at ease with going about your life surrounded by strangers who could become friends or at least get to know you a bit.
After a few days or weeks, do try to sit at a table at Starbucks. Stay there for as long as you can handle. People watch, etc. Just be amongst your people, humans.
Whenever you can, start saying the name of the cashier every time you go get your coffee. You’ll see that this relationship with the cashier will improve naturally, also bc on the other side there’s a (few) a human being(s), as I’m sure there are a few different cashiers at the store.
After a while, try to comment about the weather. And so on. Conversations will progress. And they will most often be quick because the cashier will always have to interrupt the convo to assist the next customer.
This gives you a time-limited exercise to do everyday because you won’t feel like you gotta hold the conversation for too long because that person is working and you’ll also not feel guilty that you’re holding them up (bc they usually don’t have a conversation with anyone while working and you’d be a little break from work to them) and you shouldn’t feel rejected if another customer comes to order because you know the nature of that interaction is that it’s short lived (until a customer shows up).
Try that as well at the movie theatre. Tell yourself you’ll go to the movies once a month. The interaction there can progress by you asking the cashier what movie is more popular at the moment and slowly progressing by talking about another movie you saw that was so good to another cashier the next time or telling the previous cashier what you thought of the movie he/she recommended to you last time.
These interactions are great exercises for you to get back into the world.
Don’t let yourself become isolated as that can cancel your entire personality. Your personality is still there but it’s asleep.
You’re fine. You got an amazing insight about how you’re doing. You’re smart.
Just dip your toes in the water a bit.
Later, you can join whatever class you want. You could enroll in a theater class at a community college just for the heck of it. Theater people are some of the most welcoming people around. I know that bc I’m one of them lol Join ANYTHING. Go crazy, don’t judge. Pottery class (even if you only go for a month), anything remotedly interesting to you at community college, etc You never know. You may find some very lovely people while trying to find yourself again. Don’t be afraid. And don’t let shy people (who you’ll think are rejecting you but aren’t actually), or mean people discourage you. There are A LOT of friendly people out there who are going to help you find yourself back in many ways and also in smaller interactions. Go to a book store and ask for recommendations on books. Volunteer at a radio station, library, a food bank, or pet store. Seek a job or volunteer at a book store, music store, at a Theatre or even at the movie theater.
Show up. Show up. Show up.
It’s an exercise on socializing.
It’ll be fun and it’ll be educational for you bc this world after the pandemic has changed A LOT. Everybody is feeling a bit disconnected and looking for connections/interactions. This is THE moment for you to do this experiment/activity. 🙂
Make a game out of it: You won’t go back home until you have made small talk to at least 2 people that day. A little tip: be complimentary to people and be curious about them. Ask them about themselves. What do they do? “Oh, really?” “Where?” “How do you like it?” And so on. People usually like to talk about themselves. You’ll be surprised at how simple questions can develop into some nice chats.
You can totally do this. Don’t judge, don’t take yourself seriously. This is a game, a fun experiment, like when we were kids and we would go to the playground to play with whoever was there to play with us.
I’m SUPER friendly. Too much. I have made A LOT of friends doing what I just told you to do after I moved to another COUNTRY at 25. It took me a while but I had a lot of interesting conversations and found that some people were just going to be in my life for 10 minutes, some every 3 weeks for a brunch and movie, and a few for years.
Be like a dog. Be friendly. Dogs don’t get bummed bc another dog wasn’t up for a little play. They go to another dog. It’s not about you. Sometimes people are sad, busy, sleepy, etc. Don’t take it personally.
Aside from that, if possible, go to therapy, either talk therapy and/or CBT. My idea is a good start but we all could use a little help from a therapist and it’ll be interesting for you to tell them how these experiments/activities have been making you feel.
I hope you take up on it.
You’ll do great, you’ll see. 🙂
Good luck. 👍⭐️
You say you're paranoid but did that precede the isolation? If you have a dim view of the outside world/family etc. - I'm not sure it's ideal to try to convince yourself that your views are a disease. Don't you want to be yourself and feel yourself and still be able to have meaningful connections?
I don't think social contact is a one size fits all thing. Some of us are seriously damaged by too much. And there's a vast difference between quantity and quality.
You think your intellect is atrophying? I'll not blithely insist that you're wrong, about that, but it might be more along the lines that it has become exhausted and needs to take a nap more often than it did. And, to be able to tell whether it's still as capable as ever you need to put it through its paces and that may take you to be truly interested in something. At the minute - you might be trying to play 'fetch the ball' with a Leopard. You think there is something wrong with the Leopard because you've given it the easiest test imaginable and the Leopard seems to be demic and will not even try to fetch the ball.
You seem to have some serious anhedonia (I can't spell it, apparently). Nothing, but nothing, floats your boat? That's not good. Do you never get even the slightest twinge of 'ooh, I quite like this' (apart from, maybe, the obvious)? You admit to being emotional - so you ARE responding in the like/dislike brain regions.. Do you ever experience identifiably 'positive' emotions? Ever encounter something so unexpectedly beautiful that you 'well up'? Chase it! If you must - learn ITS name. You could manufacture many relationships, with other people, but you will always come back to the issue of being able to find and identify what you like. Shallow, casual, relationships (just for the sake of having a social strata) will (if anything) only make it harder for you to explore what you really enjoy and retrieving that feeling of being interested is the real biggy.
It strikes me that there is a lot about being a Zen master that looks extraordinarily similar to what gets described as mental illness. Don't you think? That hollowed out thing? Being equable and implacable? Discarding the sense of self? Desiring neither praise nor criticism? It's like 'enlightenment'! A bit like that famed area of the Atlantic, where everything stops and the ship merely drifts, called 'the doldrums'. That's a seriously Zen bit of ocean. Terrifying, though, if you find yourself in it and you've either never heard of it or you were not expecting it to be quite so extensive. We are rarely happy to stay there and find ourselves longing for a bit of life threatening gale.
You were on your way to becoming an expert on pharmacology (is that the same as 'pharmacy'?) but something a bit catastrophic happened? Were you interested in pharmacy? Did the bad thing make it so you could no longer even contemplate revisiting that interest? There's no law that says you can't maintain that interest on your own terms. Do you remember what stirred your interest in the first place? Was it simply the wrong path or has the bad thing tainted it?
Good luck. Anhedonia, if that's part of what's going on, is a right b**ch however Zen it purports to be.
This episode is touching on things I'm currently try to understand for myself. Thank you Kati and those who asked the questions, it helps so much!
Glad it was helpful!
Omg I tought I was the only one terrified if getting better amd equally terrified of beig so sick all the time
Can't wait to hear your reply to my add on question 😊
My add on was the add on to question 2, and everything you said is true. She did not give me any resources or coping skills to help me soothe my system.
At times we would literally spend the entire session working to calm my nervous system enough so it would be safe for me to leave.
In the end she did refer me out, to the local psychiatric outpatient clinic. It was in the interim period going from her to the outpatient program that I ended my sessions with her due to how traumatising it was. I am currently in the care of psychiatric emergency team, and I see them once a week.
I am just worried that when I start the outpatient program there will be too many other issues that needs dealing with and this trauma will be pushed to the side. The main focus of the treatment/therapy will be my DID/OSDD symptoms as well as my cptsd from being emotionally neglected as well as psychologically and physically abused growing up.
Thank you to the person who asked the first question. Thanks for your absolute honesty. You're talking about something that we rarely like to acknowledge. Going to, now, pay close attention to what Katie says about this phenomenon.
The self harming thing - I've always had an awkward relationship with the idea of self harming. To actually create wounds? However, as somebody with an 'excoriating' thing going on, I absolutely get that thing about keeping an existing wound open and that's where our experiences might link up. I might be the 'lazy' version! I let the outside world do the hard work for me. I'll keep grazing my knuckles on rough walls, scratching my hands on thorns, or the sun will get me and I'll get a patch of cells that start misbehaving. I struggle to allow those wounds to heal. I suppose the self harmers differ, from me, in that they want to have the autonomy of deciding where those wounds will be. And yours seem to be often where they are not visible to other people whereas mine, because of the nature of how they were acquired, are usually really visible but also more easily explained away. Nobody really seems to notice how long my wounds take to heal, though! They don't. Indeed - I probably only need one open wound, at any given time, and it's (in a psychological sense) the same extremely migratory wound just popping up in different places!
Self harmers - I apologise for my prior habit of looking at you sideways! I guess you are more like me than I ever cared to think about. For me - it just feels good when the wound is fresh. I look forward to some clever soul doing a deep dive on whether there is a common psychological root. It has thrown me off when self harm is explained as 'releasing pressure' or 'maintaining control'.
Seems like a major red flag if a therapist states that you have to quit self-harming or they won’t see you.
Thanks, Kati!!
I can relate to so many of these questions. I am thankful I have a supportive man of a17 yrs and we have 1 daughter. Life is hard and I know I'm not alone. I suffer with severe chronic pain from severe spinal disease and severe panic disorder. I rarely get depressed; however when I do feel down I do things to pull me out; sleep a bit more, watch self help videos or creators I enjoy; garden, get some sun, do something nice for someone else expecting nothing in return. ❤
I am in my 40s and have lived with an eating disorder and depression for all of my adult years. Ive been hospitalized many times for both. Now I dont ever want to seek help for or discuss my ED and don't want to get better because I don't feel that I am struggling. I hate being depressed though and will always contact my dr when I am slipping down to get out of that hole asap.
i read it as "What if I'm TIRED of getting better?"
Can you delve into this ^ question? have you heard this before?
I can relate to a LOT of the subjects in this episode. Also thanks Katie, you covered something I'm going through with my therapist right now. You cleared up what she's pushing and trying to do. I feel like I annoy her because I say no to so much.
I was having phonecall meetings with a CBT therapist, for a while, but she let me go as it wasn't helping. She sent me some sort of appraisal sheet, after we parted ways, and today might be the day I can bring myself to read it. I think I need to read it. I have been averse to even glancing at it. It fills me with dread.
My psychiatrist years ago asked me that . At first I said yeah , stopped myself , because I wasn’t putting in the work and after 30 years of this feeling I didn’t remember better and I hate change . I’m trying more so now than several years ago , so we’ll see in time . For me it’s going to be a never ending battle I think . I’m tired , but still try I guess lol .
I was the one who wrote the third add-on to the 5th question (abt ED treatment and how u weigh benefits) and by IP I meant in-patient, not iop, sorry if that was confusing :)
Definitely helped me to feel like o wasn't alone in this feeling I've been going through this since I was 12 years old, I'm now 26. And it's been hard because I have experienced many instances were I self sabotaged and I feel like I has in a sense a feeling that I was better but I wasn't healed because my trauma still expressed itself in many ways. But I have thought that I could handle it on my own and then I would end up back where I was. But that relationship I had were I felt like I needed to be independent because in my mind it was either that or I was going through mental abuse by others around me at the time and made me feel like my feelings were invalid which made me shove those feelings deeper because I didn't want to feel this constant pain. I didn't want to be ridiculed and gaslighted and made to feel like I was the problem. So I became numb I didn't feel for years and it exploded just a few years ago. It became complex in that I was Coping with unhealthy ways. And I felt a kind of like a sense of dependency. I felt like to be normal and to feel somewhat like I wasn't going crazy to participate in substance use or self Destructive behaviors. And new things would pop up that I didn't know bothered me. Still in the process to recovery. It's been hard. It's been validating and it's been a healthy environment that I didn't feel like what pain was inflicted onto me was my fault. I always say the first step is acknowledging that you are struggling and that you need help because you can't hold this unbearable weight anymore. It's liberating but very vulnerable and scary. I appreciate these videos because it makes me feel like although the people who submit these questions have unique experiences that their are similar aspects to where we could relate. Like feeling like getting better is the unknown and it's scary because I never knew what "normal" was. My normal was turmoil, pain, abuse, and really invalidating. Although I strive to be "normal" what exactly is that? And I haven't quite answered that question for myself.
I'm afraid of success and falling
while I’m afraid of getting better I am afraid of not getting better more. I’ve seen what it does to friends and family when I am not doing well I saw as a kid what it was like with a parent suffering from mental illness and as someone who wants kids I don’t want them to face that. I’m tired of fighting and risking everything going down the drain if I one day can’t find the will to get up and keep going.
What if the damage I took in the past made me a better person in the present? Avoidant Personality Disorder certainly kept me out of trouble in the Navy, although it certainly hampered me career wise.
I love your podcast ❤
Howdy friends!! Hope everyone is having a great day!
Great video!!!
Who would I be if I was healthy and healed? How would I show up? Who would I be? Practice until you embrace yourself fully. Xo
I took a really long nap and woke up in a weird clear way for the last question
It was a spiritual experience
I've been to a lot of Churches, at least more then most people. I basically hated church as a kid, we were Catholic at the time, ... I like Church a lot more as an adult, even the Catholic Church. The preacher and community of the Church are more important then the Brand, if you ask me, as to whether or not it will be a good Church. At least as far as Christian Churches are involved.
Faith has been an important Anchor for me. My experiences with Athiesm as a teenager have been anything but liberating... just felt like another bully trying to Lord over me, ... It seems like anywhere there is a hierarchy, the limits will be tested, you really see it when you look at the world as a whole, or look at the bigger picture.
Perhaps a part of the problem, with us disappearing into our diagnoses/wanting the visible scars to stay visible/losing connection to what we like and who we are, is that (in many spheres of contemporary society) it's black and white. There's no middle ground. We're either sick or we are well and, if we are well, everything society demands gets dumped on us in one go.
I don't think it's us, with our diversity of life experiences, that's the problem. It's that, when we are forced to engage with a world that styles itself as an exemplar of inclusion and support, we have to be one of two things. I know, for a fact, that there are people who have much more obvious and catastrophic issues than I do. It doesn't make me 100% ready for 100% of my dutiful burden, though. We're supposed to be either giving, or taking, and we are not allowed to be the very natural (and possibly robustly healthy and productive) thing of both.
At 4:18 - LOL. Not having an answer to that question... is what depression is...
Kati, you look lovely in this podcast. Love the top and the pulled back hair. (I know this is purely superficial but I just wanted to say. ) :)
That could be the place you recieve love and without that part of you existing anymore maybe you know those people won't treat you the same and who they are when you're not sick or unwell isn't as kind? That's possibly my truth whilst I'm still working through all this myself...
I need help !!!
thank you so much kati, i really appreciate it ❤️❤️🥹
You're so welcome!
Mental illness is the uncomfortable comfort
So true
Hi Kati! I love You and your videos!. You do a great job explaining things and I feel you know your stuff. I wanted to speak about your journey in churches. 1. All Churches are different and some are very toxic. Some aren't. 2. Churches are a part of the demons way of getting people away from the accurate truth. I no longer go to churches because of this reason and because they lie. I have been studying with Jehovah's Witnesses for almost 9 years off and on. That's where I learned that churches are just bad. They don't tell you the accurate truth. Because there is Accurate truth, people just got to be open minded about it. I'm so sorry you went through that and whoever else has too. That shouldn't have happened. That stuff never happens In the Kingdom Hall Of Jehovah's Witnesses. But If you do go against Jehovah's rules like Smoking, sex before marriage, etc, you might be disfellowshipped. When I go to the Kingdom Hall where we worship Jehovah and Jesus, I feel so cared for and loved, like really loved and appreciated. They Are imperfect, but they are really caring people. The most truly caring people I have met. I just got over covid a few weeks ago for the 2nd time, and my bible study teacher came by (outside Door to the house) and gave me a bouquet of beautiful flowers. When I was having a hard time with my depression From my daughter being in foster care (she's finally with her dad) My bibly study teacher and another JW came over and gave me words of encouragement, scriptures to help me with what i was going through, etc, They really do care and they help when they can. You don'y have to go to churches to learn about God (Jehovah) You can Learn to read the bible a little at a time 1 section at a time. No Pressure. I hope this has helped someone reading this comment. One other thing, Jehovah's Witnesses have really SHOWN me that I am not alone through actions, not just words. Have a good day/night.
Diabetes can cause emotional symptoms, unbalanced hormones that fluctuations of daily life challenges. Everyday tasks.
Self confidence, self awareness 😢😢. Painful experiences. Every body person NEEDS some kind of momlike compassionate caregivers doctors hugs, hugs, healing HUGS. WARM WELCOMING GOOD HEARTED Behaviors. Look after her.😮😢😊❤❤❤❤Therapist needs to engage
in connection to a co worker for example.. Show us comfort, etc.
Getting better means leaving my narcissist husband. I don’t think I have the strength and financial resources for that. My entire life will have to fall apart to rebuild at 62. years old, I don’t believe in my ability to get back on my feet.
"Psychoanalysis is not really effective for people"? That seems like a pretty broad statement.
Well it’s meant to take multiple sessions a week, for years, in order for improvements to occur. So it’s not a very feasible route to take. Also, psychoanalysts are notoriously anti-research, meaning it’s just not based on scientific fact.
What is normal??? Unfamiliar. Reinventing ones personality to the person U WANT TO BE..