The Perfect Charizard is Impossible. Here's Why.
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2022
- The perfect Charizard score in Pokémon Snap has never been achieved, and may be impossible. Despite being only "one off" for decades, no one can get the last ten points needed for the perfect, theoretical Charizard score. In this video, we take a deep dive into exactly why this might be the case, sharing the story of Charizard and Pokemon Snap high score pursuit throughout the years, the amazing achievements and world records set by gamers, and exploring gaming analysis on why or why not this might be impossible..
Charizard Leaderboards on Cyberscore: cyberscore.me.uk/chart/969
Charizard 4480 by ehmw: • Pokemon Snap - Chariza...
Diglett WR by ehmw: • Pokemon Snap - Diglett...
Gyrados WR by ehmw: • Pokemon Snap - Gyarado...
Lapras WR by ehmw: • Pokemon Snap - Lapras ...
noclip.website/ cool site to explore Pokemon Snap and other video game stages
Square Head Theory Google Doc by Drogie: docs.google.com/document/d/1r...
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Thanks for watching, and until next time, stay true! - Hry
I’ve spent at least 100 if not 200 hours on Charizard 4500, and I’ve gotten to the point I can get 4480 literally every picture. Probably well over 1000 4480s at this point - I should make a tutorial. The strats used in my original video and in packattack’s original 4480 are very inconsistent comparatively.
Out of curiosity, how many hours would you say of those hundreds of hours were spent getting the 4480 in the first place, versus trying to get the perfect score once you had already tied the WR?
@@chambeet my first 4480 took like half an hour
Gotta get charizard with moltras in the same pic, gotta be quick and start shooting apple's way way eariler.
Actually Todd Rogers did it once. You just have to start the Zero-One in 2nd gear
Lmao
Or the other name he goes by on his legal documentation ‘rodd togers’ 😅
@@trueblue5567 fraud rogers
Todd Todgers that is his secret lawsuit identity
I heard if ya aint first yer last
I used to grind high scores on this game back in 2005-07. Had the perfect pikachu on the back of articuno shot. My pride and joy.
As somebody whose first Pokemon game was Yellow, I appreciate your including Pikachu when listing the Gen 1 starters.
....but that's after the cartoon made Pikachu a house hold name is why they released yellow cause honestly no one would want a pink cartridge with Mr mime as a starter
If pikachu doesnt come to mind when talking starters, it's probably because the person is younger and didnt groped up with the OG games
@@EvilishDem0nic8732WhatItDo Pink would have most likely been clefairy, who was meant to be the original Pokémon mascot if I am correct.
Can’t forget about eevee now that let’s go eevee is a thing
I honestly didn't think of Pikachu as a starter until this video, even though I upgraded to Yellow version as a kid, which blew my mind back then. I guess I just think of starters in sets of 3s. But Pikachu is a starter for Gen 1, after all.
My theory is just that the lava/rock covering his legs denies you the points like other mons. Gyarados may be the exception due to being a partial model, so there isnt actually much hidden at all.
🚂
@@akpokemon stop the train, a genious is scaping
This was my exact thought too. They probably didn’t bother creating the second half of gyarados. Is there a way to analyze the 3D models they used to create the models? That might be the answer.
@@anon3606 Define "analyze". Goose was using a GameShark to view the model of Charizard, but I doubt there's any tech out there that will let you determine how much of the model is hidden under a floor or rock.
That said, you do should be able to use the Gameshark to investigate: throw an apple to Charizard and see if, in any frame of the animation, Charizard's model is higher up than usual. I figure that there must be cheats of the game out there for emulators as well
If the model is not higher up in any frame, the only way to make Charizard's model visible would be find a glitch that makes Charizard spawn more upwards than the floor, or move slightly upwards, and that's about it. I doubt that the model can move upwards, since that would mean that you could manipulate its height with something, but you can only interact with Charizard with apples and pest balls.
Other impossible glitches that could solve it: Throwing any Pokemon in the hole would trigger the Charizard evolution scene, so if Moltres flight has randomness, that could be used to spawn Charizard, and if you throw the Charmeleon afterwards, it might spawn a second charizard. However, I doubt that Moltres flies randomly, even if it did, I bet it cannot get below a certain height. The models can push eachother, so bringing Moltres low enough could push Charizard as well.
Goose said that emulators had trouble emulating the game, and that there was a lack of cheats. Cheats for emulators can be made though, so you could find a person who is capable of creating cheats codes for games and ask him to create a "spawn Pokemon" cheat, or a flying cheat.
Charizard has no legs. The youtuber Shesez made a boundary break video where he shows whats below the lava pool.
After this video gets published the amount of attention this will receive will go up 10x, ultimately culminating in the next "it just keeps happening" video.
Can't wait for that lol
I have been thinking the same thing. If there is a way to do it that hasen't been found yet, chances of it being found soon just multiplied.
Part of the genius behind channels like this tbh. More attention will lead to more views as well, and then if it happens, then another video... ;)
…My friends….”
In a way it's good that Professor Oak is so capricious with his scores, if it was just a little off then people would constantly complain about the unreliable scoring system, but instead people just accept that it's not that kind of game and play it on its own terms.
Can you get Charizard 1000 size without getting the bonus for pose? It wouldn't be a WR, but maybe it could give some insight as to how you can get the 1000.
💯Ditto
@@MLife1000 I've been trying and I can't even get the 980 size, I'm bad lol
Pokémon Snap was a huge part of my childhood. I'd stay overnight at my grandma's house fairly regularly and my older cousins left the N64 and games like Goldeneye, Pokémon Snap, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Pokémon Stadium, Excitebike 64 (which I'm pretty sure I had some world record times but O had no idea about speedrunning and when I checked many years later it seemed like the community there was almost non-existent). Anyways, I spent so many hours playing Pokémon Snap and back in the dial up era it was hard to find guides so you had to learn it all yourself by trial and error.
Man i used to go crazy in excitebike too. Never figured out what in the cheat code debug menu was even for other than the text popping up lol
Have we analyzed how much of charizards wing-span needs to be in frame for certain higher scores? Maybe it's possible to cut certain parts of his wings and still hit a high size score. It might be that this could be achieved by getting as close as possible and then purposefully leaving a tiny bit of one wing out on one side.
(the belly is more likely to have a 'hit box' than the edges of the wings)
You'd think with the hundreds of players putting in thousands of hours trying to achieve this, they would have considered something like how the wings are framed... That's sarcasm by the way
@@jakecooper5855 what?
@@jakecooper5855 That isn’t sarcasm that’s a literal statement which is also the intuitive truth
I was so ready to sit down and rewatch some of my favorite videos again last week to get through work, was sad to see the channel gone and thought the worst,. So glad to see it back!
Glad you got your channel back. Christmas is special to me, and a gooseless Christmas is something I can't fathom. Wish you happy holidays Goose!
Merry Christmas, Dariusus!
glad to see you got your channel back!
Glad to see the channel back up and running again
The Snap community needs more videos like these. Great video! You really went into depth about everything and it was very informative. In a few years New Pokemon Snap might be at a similar spot as the original game and it would be super crazy to see videos like these on that game.
@@GamerFolklore We all are, feketerigo is a legend of both games it is nuts. He finally came back to the game after a few month break to do some of the new strategies that were found out and got the records in a day or two.
glad to see your channel back :)
I Just realized you are 100k subscribers now, congrats! Thanks for all your hard work and great videos.
Oh thank god, Goose’s channel is back up
We're waiting for BizHawk 2.9 and the Ares64 core.
Excellent video Goose! I love your Pokemon Snap videos!
I love hearing the title of a movie said in the movie, and you nailed it right in the first 5 seconds!
Love to see any and all Snap content.
I love these types of videos. Keep it up man 👍
Love the content shuffle, Goose, keep up the good work!
Woohooo im so happy to see you got your channel back !
Your Pokemon snap videos are my favorites. I hope you keep doing them
Congrats on 100k, Goose!
Goose, you're a CZcams gem. Sometimes I feel like that great social renaissance of games that started around 2012 is in the past. But when I see another Goose video, hear your voice sounding as young and vibrant as ever, then I look in the mirror and realize I look pretty much exactly the same, I know we're still in it.
We need a TAS to find out if it's possible
Never disappointed when a new Goose video gets uploaded. Thanks for the entertainment over the years!
Totally firing up Pokémon snap tonight
Same
Might be doing the same
Holy bingus! You backed up your stuff! Thank God. I thought it was the end
Great vid! I love this videos on more obscure N64 era speedgames/score games or any similar related topic. Stay true, my friends!
Well done on this video mate 👍
I can't believe I subscribed to THE Pokemon Snap youtuber, I'll never regret it
Plus I think he uploads some kind of "speed runs" of Golden Shower as well or something
Cursed
Yyoooo thanks for the new video!! I love ur content!!
I never played Pokemon Snap, and honestly the game doesn't really appeal to me, and yet I watched and enjoyed this entire video lol Great stuff!
He lives! Was legit about to DM and ask if you had backups of the early Speedlore since I think I have them somewhere
If it happens next week, Ryan will be like "My friends, it just keeps happening! 🤣🤣
"My friends, these motherfuckers must will not let me rest and I will unleash an unbridled and long-kindled rage upon all of you."
Thanks to quantum physics, nothing is impossible
Great video !!!
wait what?!? I cant believe there is no TAS with Pokemon Snap?!?
LETS GO ITS BACK BABY
I like this video a lot. I'd like to know more about Pokemon high score techniques if you feel like making content like that.
@@GamerFolklore Thanks! I'll watch those.
Welcome back!
Goose - Happy Holidays my friend.
Awesome to see everythings back to whatever "normal" is, lol. It'd be a blow not just to speed-running but video game history in general not to have your archives up. Would you look at that I even worked in the name of a Goldeneye level in what I said.
Goose truly understands the pokemon youtube video title meta, although a big red arrow pointing at zard woulda been hilarious
Was so busy yesterday didn't catch this. What a treat to wake up too.
I wonder if deleting small bits of geometry or getting rid of the lava texture plain would line-up with your small theory about how a small bit of the model are obscured at all times thus preventing the score. That or minimising the model to work with the square head stuff. This would be an illegitimate score but would be good for the research.
Yea it is below the lava.
The CZcamsr Shesez showed it in his Boundary Break video of the game
Finally had some time to watch this after some stressful projects and tests. You got me invested into checking out more about pokemon snap at the speedrunner level. I loved this game as a kid and hearing it has mysteries like this amazed me.
One day they'll find the 1000 size. Somehow someway, it's gonna happen
"there's no way to delay you from leaving the level" is that true? I thought throwing an apple in front of the vehicle will stop you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Throwing an apple in fro t of the vehicle won’t stop it. You can use apples to lure Pokémon in front of the vehicle which will stop it but there are no Pokémon at the end of the level to lure in front of the vehicle
I used to play this game so much. I don’t remember my scores but I’m gonna go look back and maybe try some runs!
Fascinating stuff!
Is it possible to get 1000 size score on a lower scoring pose?
I like that you used the Pokemon Go overlay in the thumbnail. A lot of people probably won’t get the reference.
I watched some out of bounds vid on this game and when looking at Charizard's "legs" it made me wonder if the photo is counting his legs as far away since they are in their compressed state (since off-screen)? Probably been investigated thoroughly but just wondering if the bottom piece (while all in photo) won't be sufficient to meet max "size" score?
The only thing I can think of for Charizard is:
1. Throw an apple while pretty far away.
2. Speed up to a closer spot as he inhales.
3. Charizard gets ready to blow fire, but is pointing away from you looking where you were (instead of where you've sped to).
4. Square head to appropriate off-center size.
5. Snap away.
This might allow you to be "far" away to fit him in frame better (since he's facing slightly away from you before he begins to blow fire), and using square head you can make it seem like he's closer.
The picture will fail, unfortunately, if he actually starts blowing fire at you.
Now I haven't paid attention to his animation, but this obviously won't work if from the moment the apple hits him, to right before he blows fire, he's tracking your movement. If he's preparing his flame facing where you last threw the apple, then this might work.
I mean I don't know, I don't understand this game outside of the Mew level is dope.
Pokemon facing away from you will be worth less points. There is a kangaskhan in the first level and it's facing away. Any attempt at a shot while its facing away will have oak comment on it and give you trash for points.
What about using an editor to take the lava out just to see if you can get a 1000 then? Just for science
Only thing I can may e think of is trying a ricochet to somehow get the ideal shot setup faster for the last frame? Could .at e see if a contact on the games development team is available for a question. Maybe intentionally designed to cap as a tease for reattempting although that would suck.
You know, I have just thought... what if it is possible to get 1000, just not a perfect score? There are animations Charizard takes that makes his overall fill of the frame a lot smaller, meaning you might then be able to adjust the picture more or less in the frame to get that 1000 score. I could be totally wrong about this, but from the footage you showed it seems like that may have happened (who knows, maybe there's a single frame transitioning them that might let you bag the perfect score).
Perhaps with a GameShark code that allows you to move player and camera position, you can test from every angle to see what kind of points each of them give you, I feel like something like that would greatly help solve how this works, and why it doesn't give the points it should. Cuz from using that knowledge it should help give better understanding and working out the best position for that 1000 score.
For anyone interested.
The CZcamsr Shesez who makes many boundary breaks videos where he takes the camera anywhere shows whats below the lava.
Basically Charizard has no legs but there is still parts of his body below the lava.
Thats probably whats stopping the whole size from reaching 1000.
my favorite CZcamsr of all time
square head theory doesn't account for the size difference imo. i think it's a matter of rectilinear projection, in which further things from the center of the field of view are affected more by the distortion caused by sphere-to-plane conversion. try playing minecraft in quake pro fov and you'll immediately see the size difference near the edges of the screen.
I find it interesting that there is no TAS for this game and that it doesn't work well with emulators. Are there any high profile speedrunning in a similar position?
R-lean the apples like mines in 007
Woo we got goose back on youtube!
Can I ask.. If its a simple case of seeing that the size is correct when taking the picture.. Why hasn't this been tested with save states/ tas? Surely it could be proven or disproven rather simply with a tas taking a picture at every possible frame and angle on slow motion or something.
I demand a Pokemon Snap Decompilation Project!
Could be possible to code in a rapid fire camera shot, apple and infinite film, capture a few hundred shots and see if it's even there.
The perfect shot may have something to do with framerates and was programmed in but the framerate may effect it.
Anyone try to long range apple the charzard before u closer woulsnt just throwing 2 quickly work. If its the size at the goal post then it would need to he. Framenperfect before u are activated for the teleporteroh and a little down to get a little of the lava
One thing I've missed in this video was an explanation what's the goal of this game and how it works (the mechanics, what do they do). After watching it I'm left with almost the same amount of knowledge I had before watching.
Take pictures, get points
theres not really a goal like other games. its more sandboxy in that u can take any pics u like and the fun is in trying to get higher scores, or unique poses. eg pikachu. the highest score pikachu picture is when hes flying on articuno but u might prefer to take a pic of him when he is flying alone on balloons or surfing. its like asking whats the goal of nature photography.
the goal is to have fun
The main character is from the original shows. He only took pictures. People thought that was cool and more interesting than grinding the pokemon you catch to fight stronger pokemon so this game was made. Oak asks for your assistance to grab pictures of the pokemon on the island to assist with filling that locations pokedex. The levels have secrets and some of the pokemon themselves are a puzzle to figure out how to get a picture of them. If you didn't play it in the past you might not like it now.
that is so frustrating,I'd always been able to get 4480's it's impossible due to professor oak being oh yeah better luck next time for the next 23 years,I want to see someone do the impossible and get that perfect picture,that would be quite the achivement,I'm sure we could've gotten the perfect picture for charizard if the scoring system was a tiny bit better back then,the code probably got screwed up somehow for some of the scores,that's the only thing I can think of why we can't get it
Hello, it's me , the only man to get 1,000 Charizard size in the world. My name's Todd Mitchell. What it is is an unknown trick called frame buffer which gets you 1 frame past the normal ending and you can take the 1,000 shot on one frame. Which i of course did.
No really that's so intriguing though, I am one of those millions of kids,I still have my cartridge today. Now that you mention it, I'm irked by the fact that you can't get 1,000 size on every single pokemon. I feel I'm owed something by these developers.
the pikachu photobombing the diglett is fully within the frame at least. no cutoffs.
what if you used save states & an emulator's frame-by-frame mode to see how close you could get whilst taking a picture beyond the human limits?
Is it possible that the game calculates the points by amount of main color of the body in the frame excluding the belly color from calculation? Would explain snorlax
I'm curious how these calculations are made. It's possible the pokemon are rendered entirely as a separate frame and pixels are counted, but mistakenly lava masks out that rendered frame. It's quite interesting even as someone with no experience playing Pokemon games.
I don't play this game much and didn't even as a kid (I was never good at it), but I could have sworn I once got a perfect size for Charizard, but awful pose and technique because I'm not good at the game. Or maybe that's inherent, it's possible but not with that pose or with proper technique?
back in business
The only way to truly know how the score works is to look at the game code. I heard that Super Mario 64 was reverse engineered a while ago so it's possible that we might see something similar with Pokemon Snap in the future.
Ryan I bet someone will do it one day, how many times have you said it just keeps happening?! We just need someone who can do it first :)
I'm surprised nobody has dived into the code and reverse engineered the algorithm yet. Then you'd know exactly how to do it.
As counter-intuitive as this may seem, do you think you could actually get more size when Charizard doesn't have his wings out?
Maybe size refers to the pokemon size compared to his surroundings? Perhaps the farthest away is best idk.
10:39 Fun Photography Fact: The "Less Centered" shots you're talking about follow a general photography rule called "The Rule of Thirds".
Check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds
my guess is that it is simply not in the game. important to point out that the actual composition of the pixels of the photograph will NOT influence the size score... the size score is likely stored as a value alongside the photo and is probably based off of the distance between the coordinate of the photographer and the subject. this can be observed with the seemingly random size scores with various other examples like snorlax, etc. they might toss in a pokemon specific modifier to sweeten it to make sure you can get nice size scores even for tiny pokemon.
with respect to the square head theory... its plausible but I don't think it's the most reasonable explanation. in photography there's a principle that puts value on a subject being off-center. given the game was likely designed by a photography enthusiast, i wonder if they decided to sweeten the score logic a little bit by giving you bonus points for attempting to take an artful picture, and it just happens to manifest in the size score. this could be done with very basic geometry to conclude whether you were looking directly at the pokemon when you snapped the photo
for them to go out of their way to compute the size of the characters head, figure out which part of their head is closest to the pokemon, and them measure that distance... would be a pretty wild technical flourish that doesn't seem to fit with the roughshod nature of N64 programming
i absolutely dont think the lava/terrain obscuring charizard is a factor, this is debunked by the gyrados example and also the fact that there's actually very little charizard actually below the geometry
Many N64 games are being decompiled. A decompilation of Pokemon Snap could provide a definitive answer, though I don't know how much progress if any has been done on it.
Gotta get charizard with moltras in the same pic, gotta be quick and start shooting apple's way way eariler.
Maybe Todd Rogers could archive a perfect score?
Damn, he joined the tesla hive mind
I must be missing something here. Why is no one talking about other pokemon being in the frame of the shot? Charmander shots have multiple charmander and I would assume it's a rule of only that pokemon but diglet has pikachu in the shot as well and that counts.
So, with that said, you show its possible to get to charizard and have moltres fly by. What if you got a shot of it when that happens? Or, furthering this, there are growlith and.... it's evolution (which I don't care to look up at this moment) that can be brought up on the right as you approach charizard. If you look in this video you can see a small portion of the cliff they spawn on, on the left of charizard in the background. What about popping the dogs out of their lava baths and lure them to that corner and then snap a picture of charizard with them in the background?
i can finally finish this vid haha
the only(?) hope is the (kind of) people who decompiled SM64, OoT, etc, decompile the game to fully understand the score logic.
if a modder could make a mod that shows what the score would be at all times we would get a better idea what is possible and might point us in the right direction
Is it possible to knock charmilion in the lava from further away?
I think gyarados works because the part behind the waterfall is behind his body relative to you so the game doesn't deduct points, whereas charizard bottom is hidden by the lava/ground relative to you so the game faults you for that.
Kind of like how if a pokemon is partially behind a rock you will get less points while you won't get points deducted for not photographing a pokemon's backside when you're seeing his front side (as that would be impossible)
I was literally about to post just about the same thing lol. It probably does have to do with that tiny bit of him under the lava and the grounds boundary is probably blocking those last points. I would think that someone would have been able to get a perfect size score without the pose or bonuses but since it sounds like that's never happened either it's probably impossible in a traditional way. But who knows speedrunners, tasers and exploiters have done crazier things in the past to other games so I wouldn't put it past someone.
Since every Pokémon already has a different perfect score (usually depending on pose, and same Pokémon bonus), I would just say Charizard's perfect score IS 4480 until proven otherwise (when somebody achieved 4500, or at least 1000 size, proving that 990 isn't its max possible size). If 1000 size can't be achieved, 4480 is perfect.
a banger in the works
Here's an idea:
I recall that the car/train thing you're in slightly moves in the direction you're facing. Maybe the perfect Charizard requires you to take the photo while moving away from Charizard, then turn around and take the photo before the car/train thing gets too close.
The path in that stretch of the stage is so narrow, given the strategy shown here, I don't think there's much further they could go. Best chance is if they flip the camera instead of turning to get that shot, but the amount of space they'd gain for that is pretty minimal. There's enough N64 jank in Snap that I wouldn't be surprised if a little extra distance would do it, but I'd expect it to be "inside the wall" distance, which just isn't possible in this game.
@@hokostudios So, I'm sorry but that's completely useless. And I'm waiting for a bus, so let me tell you why:
- I know for a fact you can move a bit, because I did it myself. Question is whether it can make the 20p difference - the "minimal" space you can move could literally be the difference.
- I think thousands of speedrunners combined have thought about pressing the C-buttons
- Your idea is completely irrelevant to this suggestion, go make your own comment or something, it's not relevant.
Again, I'm sorry - not trying to ba an ass. But I had to read your comment a few times before I realised it did literally nothing for me 😂
@@nivyan You pointed out that the ZERO-ONE drifts in the direction the player faces (when not on a track).
I pointed out that the strategy shown already takes advantage of that, and that if there's _any_ more to gain out of that, it'd be by some ridiculously snappy movement. I fail to see how that's irrelevant? If you happen to mean players should try that on some other portion of that length of track, I may need some clarification as I took this to mean near the stage exit where the shot is taken now?
@@hokostudios Ahh!! I didn't catch that you meant that the strategy already takes advantage of that. I totally missed that!
And yes; you're correct in that I meant on any part of the track:
For example, before you reach Charmeleon, go to the opposite side of the track, flip, throw an apple over the cliff and hit the Charmeleon (blind) to knock it into the pit earlier. Then take the picture asap? That might be at a distance/angle people haven't tried before because it's kind of absurd.
I'm glad we cleared it up - I was so confused and considered not responding at all, because I didn't know how to phrase it without sounding like an ass xD
Is it possible to reach Charmeleon with a pester ball earlier?
maybe? with my terrible aiming I never got to hit charmelon with a pester ball,but I think my friends have when we were kids,I don't think we ever got the high score though,we've always chose pictures that we thought was the best cause we were never told that the flamethrower picture is the way to get the highest scores,youtube and other sites didn't exist in the 90's so we did what we wanted back then,I do think it's possible to hit charmelon with a pester ball earlier but the timing and the aiming has to be right for that