Does NYC Need Platform Screen Doors?
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2022
- Recently, there's been a lot of talk about the MTA implementing Platform Screen Doors throughout the New York City Subway System. In this video, we'll be discussing whether or not the doors should be implemented throughout the NYC Subway.
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I really hope things turn around for the subway.
I don’t think the MTA’s problem is money but how it uses that money. I was really hopeful that Andy byford was going to turn things around but political meddling in his own efforts to fix the system made him leave New York
What happened to Byford in New York also happened (to some degree) to him here in Toronto.
Flexible screen doors would allow for the use of several rolling stock types and would not be substantially more expensive than conventional screen doors. But really, before screen doors I think the MTA should put more emphasis on station maintenance, and making the stations be not such grubby, run down places.
True the video of the new Hudson Yards station is where the NY subway needs to aim towards but I think upgrading will be difficult on a network that is so busy. Looking at London I think that the Elizabeth line has provided the ideal opportunity to look at releasing capacity on the central line and potentially some other lines too to support other network upgrades. There was massive opposition to the line and a lot of people who said they were happy with their traditional routes who are now converts to the Elizabeth Line.
There is currently talk about a second Crossrail line from SW to NE London and potentially a Brighton Mainline 2 project that would focus on Croydon, Lewisham, Canary Wharf, Stratford and beyond that again would be a great game changer in diverting more passengers off existing national rail and TFL (underground & TFL rail) services. An expansion of the Bakerloo line to Lewisham is also on the cards and this is something I fully support as it will provide a great link to an underserved part of London.
Coming back to NYC new dedicated rail/subway lines with high capacity ( like the Elizabeth Line’s 1,500 per train) could also make east to west travel easier across the water from New Jersey to Manhattan (under the Hudson) and out east to Brooklyn, JFK and other communities providing a great way of encouraging a switch from congested roads to fast rail. Likewise north to south lines could remove the need for “express subway” lines allowing potentially more stopping services to operate as the U.K. HS2 rail project will permit.
Sources:
www.crossrail2.co.uk & www.BML2.co.uk
the grubby run downness is too iconic, I believe it shouldn't be changed. It makes the subway really feel a shit ton more authentic
@@glassyturkishman what 🗿
Platform screen doors also shouldn’t cost $33,000,000 per station. But this is the MTA. Going to flexible screen doors would make it about $105,000,000 per station, and would require a 3 1/2 year closure to install.
Yes I agree! Also make more stations accessible for people with wheelchairs/physical disabilities and those who use strollers.
I heard in Japan, they utilize a technology of cameras and QR codes to communicate to the station which platform doors should be opened. This technology would probably be helpful in maximizing flexibility at stations while keeping riders safe. But then, the MTA has dug itself into a multi-billion dollar debt during the 80s and 90s that is still having an effect today.
They can opt for adjustable platform screen doors. It's very new, since it will just be inaugurated when Umekita Station in Osaka is opened in 2023.
Or the MTA can opt for vertical PSDs, similar to what they have in some stations in Paris and in some stations under JR West, like in Rokkomichi Station in Kobe.
Singapore was the first to do this, and the reason they did it was to make it less expensive to air condition the stations, without letting the conditioned air into the tunnels. Foreign observers looked at the platform doors and thought it was a great idea to solve the problem of people falling or being pushed off the platform. So now there are systems that have half-height platform doors, which don't solve the original air conditioning problem.
Actually, the first system to use platform doors was the St. Petersburg (then Leningrad) metro, on line 2 in the 1960’s. The only downside is that the view of the train was completely obstructed by the windowless walls and doors, so you couldn’t tell which train was coming from either direction unless you heard a noise.
Singapore only took notes from St. Petersburg and added windows, while other cities used half-height doors. If I had to guess what type of PSD’s NYC would use, it would probably be window doors for newer stations like 34th Street-Hudson Yards, and half-height ones for some older stations.
Agree. The speed and cost with which things get done in NYC makes PSD’s impossible. You can’t afford to do this when you still haven’t made the system ADA compliant, you want to renovate and expand the system, etc.
Need to add them as soon as possible
i feel like a good and low-tech intermediate solution would be to have barriers on the platforms of stations with gaps where doors are. while it might not stop someone who is intent on getting on the tracks, it could help reduce the dangers caused by crowding the platform at overcrowded stations. i remember they used to have these at the south ferry loop
I think there's a tiny tiny example of this on the N/Q platforms at Canal St, next to the stairs that go up to the J line.
@@samuelitooooo yup, to catch people who fall on the stairs
I mean there’s a problem with 75 and 60 footers, until the 75 footers get retired this could happen
@@BX19LTD The bright side is this will be less and less of a.problem, even just within the next *few* years as R211s come in and CBTC is decided along more lines. Broadway will be the last to get CBTC* so chances are all R68[A]s are going to the N, Q, and W while the rest (A, B, C, D, E, F, G, R) will be 60 footers.
*The J and M lines in Brooklyn might not get CBTC at all as far as I know right now, but those lines already have 100% modern 60-foot rolling stock today!
@@BX19LTD true, but for the time being these could just be installed on the A division and CBTC equipped lines
New York should look to Singapore and Seoul, if these cities can afford to have PSD's in almost all their subway stations and operate in a balanced manner from maintenance to ensuring safety and reliability, there's nothing in the way from doing the same in New York City. The problem with the MTA is that there's widespread corruption and unnecessary bureaucracy driving up the costs and hindering any practical long term improvements from being made. The MTA needs a complete restructuring from the board of executives down to the staffing.
You have to remember though, those system are less than 60 years old. So the stations were probably either future proofed for PSDs, or were easily retrofitted for them. You’re comparing apples to oranges here
@@PhilliesNostalgia I mean RAPT in Paris also managed to retrofit their century old stations for PSD's on a number of metro routes, so it's not impossible so to speak.
@@PhilliesNostalgia the anology would most likely be more like watermelons to apples.
New York is easily the largest subway system in the world...
@@butacrusader It’s not even the biggest in terms of ridership, and soon, won’t be in station count, even if you count Metropolitan Av and Lorimer St as two separate stations. Moscow has way more riders with a whole lot less stations, as an example
@@PhilliesNostalgia Yes, the Shanghai Metro will exceed the station count of the NYC Subway within 5 years, as they are only about 25 stations short now and there are currently at least that many stations under construction in Shanghai right now.
NYC does need it maybe for safety since subway shovings still occur and to prevent people from jumping on to the tracks
I think it’s possible for all stations, given that some different, innovative designs, are used in other countries with the same issues. Vertical PSDs, and half-height PSDs, exist.
You can not be serious ? Do you even live in NYC or even ride the train ? If you think it’s possible for all stations you are clearly oblivious to the real issues at hand.
@@richardwalker6004 The study they published is full of excuses. For many stations, lightweight PSDs can be installed, as seen on the Osaka Metro, and Spain has experimented with vertical PSDs, as well as flexible PSDs, which allow for different train door arrangements and lengths. At this point, because the 75’ cars are due to be replaced in the near future, this won’t even become a problem.
@@blaazer9473 I also think some stations need to be heavily rebuilt, the entire system needs an overhaul.
@@blaazer9473 You can use eminent domain on private property, its a legal fight, but it’s worth it. The entire system needs a huge overhaul, and the MTA needs to learn how to control its ballooning costs…
@@blaazer9473 They’re not broke, they just spend money unwisely, because they can’t control their construction costs.
Yes! If Airports can get it so can the MTA.
They really need this. Victims that fell or got pushed might sue the MTA for a big amount of money.
Their case wouldn't be successful though.
Unlikely.
Platform screendoors are not viable in the Subway because they can't be installed in the over 100 year old system.
@@paxundpeace9970 They installed in the UK which is just as old.
@@MelGibsonFanonly on the lizzy line in the uk
The rest has no psd’s
“Airport people movers”! Hahaha!
I like the platform net door the most (Osaka, Kansai, Honshu, Japan) because it the cheapest, most versatile, most efficient use of materials (most lightweight and most eco-friendly), takes up the least space (because lightweightness means supports don't have to be as thick), and quickest to install because of the lightweightness and compact size.
Are you pertaining to these?
czcams.com/video/6ZfjWXCD3Hk/video.html
I think this is the biggest constraint for any design MTA implements is that it will have to have *NO* moving parts...
Because we all know how reliable the switches, signals, and elevators are
@@godlugner5327 It's only unreliable if it's not a Japanese design. However, it's super reliable if it's a Japanese design, especially if the components are made in Japan. That's why the trains in Japan are always on time (even being early will be penalized, as 2 train companies in 2017 in Japan apologized for leaving 20 and 25 seconds early, respectively), even with platform doors.
I am 100% in support of PSD's, at the very least, in the busier (more crowd prone) stations. Aside from the obvious, passengers falling and or being pushed onto the trackage, let me assure you all, that few things are as startling as barreling through a station like 79th street (lines 2 and 3) at 40+ MPH, and suddenly seeing an authorized person crossing the tracks up ahead, knowing full well that you have no hope of stopping in time. But I also agree with you, Mystic, that such doors would probably be a complete waste of money at stations like 231st or 238th and Broadway, if the structure could even support the additional weight. A good "food for thought" video
The NYC Subway *did* have PSDs at one point. According to a community post by Mr. Railfan about 6 months ago, (photo #41), experimental green doors were tested at one of the L Train stations, with plans to renovate the rest of the line with PSDs during the L Train shutdown. But as the shutdown was canceled, so too were the PSDs on that line.
They didn't have PSDs, that was just a render. Photo made it obvious.
We may see platform screen doors, on the finished second avenue subway, which of course has been in the works since the Brooklyn Dodgers.
That ain't even a question. YES.
I could see this happening. Maybe have about 2-3 stations per line as a trial for each line.
Japan has a QR code system allowing trains with different door placements to use platform screen doors. It’s so cool. The camera cans the door’s QR code and then knows which PSD to open
Some stations need a bigger platform edge that touches the pillars.
And honestly I don’t think the MTA should waste their money on platform screen doors on a system that’s been here since 1904. I do sympathize for the victims but the pushing onto the tracks isn’t as common when people actually learn how to stand behind the yellow line *even if shoved* instead the money should be use to continue maintain and upgrade infrastructure, signals and also improve the lighting, tiles and add on security cameras. You got to remember there are 472 stations in the system and you won’t be able to install all of them within 10 years
Congrats on 10k subscribers. And yes the Subway definitely needs those
I've seen these platform doors in several cities in France, notably Paris, Toulouse, Rennes and Lille. I don't understand why the cost in NYC would be so high - those French cities (other than Paris, of course) are tiny by comparison, and they wouldn't have the finances to pay that kind of money for those doors. Price gouging, much?
Yes sand hogs are expensive
Some of our subway stations almost like a S shaped C shape curve beds that the tracks lay up on. Depending on how the platforms are designed Fencing door's for safety purposes is way to expensive to reconstruct over a 100 plus year's Transportation system.
We've just started getting them in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane - they're amazing, make the trains go faster and more reliable and have the benefit that you can air condition the stations.
A big problem with platform screen doors or barriers is if a train comes in and has to stop short for some emergency, the train doors won't line up with the platform doors trapping people. The TA does have limited platform barriers in select locations and is looking at other locations. One long existing example are the ends of the 7 Grand Central Station platforms. Most transit systems don't have platform barriers for good reason.
Another issue with platform screen doors is that some stations are at a curve. Example: 14 st Union Square on the 4 5 6 lines. Although a very congested station is is impossible to imply screen doors at that station especially with gap fillers installed in that station.
Right now, the one station that I believe should install platform screens doors is the Lexington Avenue/59 Street on the N/R/W line. It has one island platform that especially gets crowded around the stairs with people transferring to/from the Lexington Avenue line. But since the station is used by rolling stock of different length, the R160’s 60 footers, and the 75 footers of the R46s and R68s, the station that probably needs the platform screen doors the most is unfortunately a station that currently can’t accommodate platform screen doors.
There are three problems with placing barriers on the subway platforms in NYC. So he’s right about this.
1. The older trains and newer trains have different door positions making it impossible to indicate where the doors would open at.
2. The financial situation for this would be nearly impossible. Plus it depends which platforms need it the most. Mainly on the newer platforms like the Second Avenue line or on the Flushing line.
3. Reducing crime is the biggest problem we face today and it only getting worst by the day.
Stand clear of the screen doors, please!
Here in São Paulo, line 4 was the first to be inaugurated with doors already open in 2010, then line 15 of the monorail in 2014, then it was installed in all stations of line 5 in 2021, which had been inaugurated in 2002, they are currently installing them in lines 1, 2 and 3, leaving all stations with doors until 2025, there is the plan for installing doors on metropolitan train lines, we call them cptm here, lines, 7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13, Line 13 connects the city center to Guarulhos airport, opened in 2018, there are plans to put the doors on this line first. We have too a street car line, in Santos city on the coast, we call it VLT, and all stations have the doors, even though it is a service with low demand, All new lines, like line 6, and line 17 of monorail being built, will already have platform doors
You got a good idea install psds at congested and crimeful stations for a cheap price at the moment while eventually all can get it as well as doing other track trespassing technology and how do I find out how other systems in the world do better than NYC
Issues of people falling onto the tracks? That's a good one. People wouldn't be falling into the tracks if not for the NYC evil and crazies pushing innocent people onto the tracks. Those barriers are a must for our transit system. There isn't any other way to stop the crazies from harming people simply minding their own business. I'd rather pay a higher fare to get those barriers installed and not have to hear another sad story about someone getting shoved under a train for no good reason.
One thing that people overlook with the installation of platform screen doors is how this is going to affect conductor operation. Conductors have to look out the window while opening and closing the doors to check the platforms. If these doors are installed it’s going to obstruct the conductors view as they can’t either look out the window or get a view of the platforms!
Other public transportation systems have no issues with this. The doors have sensors to detect if they're open and closed. Could also be solved with cameras (the stations already have cameras everywhere)
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking because it's really scary for people getting pushed into the tracks aggressively, so in order to solve this problem, I guess the MTA should add screen doors so it will be safe and easy for people to not get pushed off the platform even when their's a crowded subway platform or people bumping into each other so it's a smart idea to put out some platform screen doors
Yes they really do need this, especially with the increase in people getting intentionally pushed on the tracks and the dangerous gap between platform and train. But will the greedy politicians in NYC invest in this? I hope so.
Do you even ride the train ? Every train station is designated differently , some stations can handle a platform while majority can not . It’s just a waste of money when the system is falling apart and need other projects prioritized .
I have no desire to have $100 million in tax dollars fund three stations
@@VianoMusicAcademy exactly these ppl are oblivious to the real issues of MTA.
@@richardwalker6004 Uh yes I do ride it everyday. Look at my profile picture, hello . Also, what makes you think that I don't consider other projects important? I just think that with the rise in crime, the ability to push people on the tracks should be prevented
My take for PSD in the NYC Subway is that it should be implemented at places that have little to no interlining and have rolling stock with similar dimensions as mentioned. The Flushing Line (using R188s only) and Canarsie Line (using only R143s and R160As) could have them first, since they are mainly deinterlined anyways, so PSDs can be installed there with little issues. As for the rest, they would have to wait till the rolling stock dimensions are standardized.
I also have a question on how they would implement them? Because those things can't be placed overnight and take time. meanwhile the subway runs 24/7 and is active
Some Chinese hi-speed rail stations (with less frequent services) are using platform edge ropes. They block the trackway when there’s no train, and be elevated to there’s a train arriving.
But the cons are the problem if their slow movements can be capable for NYC’s headways.
I personally think a trial on the (L) and (7) train is a good idea because they have CBTC and they have no interlining or easy rerouting.
There would he difficulties that would ultimately make this an expensive mistake. The NYCMTA, changes the length of trains at various times to insure the safety of passengers at any given time. So any type of door system would require that it could also be closed off to accommodate this feature. Additionally, such screens would be an additional target for vandals be it graffiti or breakage of materials or door openers.
I know this probably isn’t the best place to ask but I REALLY been looking into becoming a train operator. I love trains/the NYC system and now I have time in my life to where I can feasibly make an attempt at a career around it. What are the exact requirements to making that happen? One thing I can see potentially being a roadblock now is me not being a New York resident.
The problem with multiple rolling stock having differing door placement would make the wire rope platform barriers seen at some Japanese train stations the best solution. I believe they are also cheaper than the standard glass panel psd's.
Yes PSD, since PSD could work with OPTO.
I think for screen doors to be implemented there needs to be gentrification of the subways. Clean them up and make them less dirty, grimy Hotspots. Once done, I believe chest-high barriers should be implemented, ones that slide open automatically. This can allow for a good view of when the train is arriving and for rail fans. Unlike many stations in South Korea, these barriers are completely inclosed which obstructs the view of the train. I also highly encourage the MTA to add barriers to congested stations, narrow platform stations, and to elevated stations.
JFK airport subway System have the scan doors
I think the screen doors can work on the IRT lines (1-7) since the doors stops at the same spot. Some station already has markers on the platforms where the doors are going to be at. As for the letter lines (D and F trains) they are still using 2 different cars whereas you mentioned on the video, the doors do not align.
The IRT still also have different door spots where the trains stop so you can't install them on all of the IRT lines
Canal Street along NQRW lines need them for sure
I'm from Brazil, from the city of São Paulo and the models of platform doors being placed in the city's subway stations, I highly recommend the New York government to install these doors, they are good
it need Platform Screen Doors
There is no other option. Install those screen doors, bar none. It can stop 90% of the chaos. Do it exactly as they are at the airport.
Make it snappy, too. Im tired of hearing about folks falling off tracks, pushed & other unspeakable reasons.
what they need is to actually prosecute criminals and put them behind bars
Maybe they can get a metal sheet curtain, sort of like a garage door so it just opens everything when a train arrives
I believe NYC should install platform screen doors to create a safer subway system.
I think it should be something like PSDs every place the platform is less than 12ft wide.
Now I kinda agree with the platform screen door since it would be more effective but if we need platform screen doors for the whole system, then they need to be implemented in a way for different rolling stock. So I'm not sure if it's the best solution. Now in case there's some sort of system that the MTA can add to prevent more people falling on to the tracks then I mostly can agree with this more bc if someone does fall off the tracks it sense it as an unauthorized personal and the police can respond faster to that emergency.
Very simple , low cost, low tech solution, would be To look down at your feet. If your standing on a Yellow stripe, BACK UP!!!!!! Or when possible, position yourself behind a pole or other obstruction until the train comes to a stop. This works very well since as a teen in the 1970's and 80's the NYC subway was a Brothel for crime,and I'm still alive and well.
I'm a railfan, and I highly support on platform screen doors. This helps reducing the deaths caused by trains from a lot to completely none.
This is false as people die from getting stuck inbetween the screen doors and the trains and get skinned alive as the train leaves the station
The only reason why this hasn't been implemented earlier is because CBC asn't been implemented throughout the entire system and there is still different rolling stock. Once those problems are addressed, then I can see screen doors becoming a thing
CBTC isn’t the reason, the most probable reasoning is rolling stock and station design structure
@@nyctransitrailfan Trains don't always stop at the same place in a station which may misalign with the station doors which I mentioned CBTC
PSDs make a station so much quieter, less stressful and more comfortable. I’ve seen enough people caught by them that they probably aren’t any safer than not having them, mind
The R211s are supposed to have wider doors which means they can’t interline with the R160s and R188s if you have platforms screen doors. Plus so many platforms don’t have the space. It will never really be possible. The idea is mostly floated by people who are uninformed about transit after a horrible incident occurs.
One word, YES.
We need it. We should start with a few as already planned.
$33 million per station...
That's a very fishy price...
But NYC has the money to do it, just a matter of will.
Is there any particular existing technical limitations to having standardized train door widths and placement across the system or is it just due to the rolling stock of different trains being older than others?
Dimensions of the track curves between Number lines and Letter lines is different. Meaning Number lines have shorter 3 door cars for the tight turns while there are 4 doors on Letter line trains
This should’ve been done decades ago
It’s good day always go to town Square times on especially in Saturday
If they need the platform screen doors for the entire system. They need to clean up and Seal off any cracks and upgrades the track foundation. Then entire system will installed Platform screen doors. Because i seen the other video on other CZcamsr i seen the rat around the line and some train have 3 door on each side and some train have 4 door on each side.That my guess.
I admit train reroutes is a point I hadn't considered before.
Even so, there are some lines now with unified rolling stock, specifically the 7, and the entire BMT Eastern Division. Those may be good starting points.
Also, would SMEEs be able to run on CBTC lines? If not, then all rolling stock with CBTC (NTTs, obviously) already have the same door placements, so we can start with the few CBTC zones we have now (e.g. Queens Blvd) and progress when more lines become active. All three stations selected for the pilot (4:00) match this criteria.
Two other advantages for full-height platform screen doors:
1) Climate control. Probably not worth the cost at smaller stations - some elevated stations have enclosed mezzanines that you gotta open doors to get through, and they even have heaters for the winter, which is fantastic - but at the most popular stations it might be worth it (e.g. 74 St-Broadway, Bway Junction). Such systems could also help to filter and clean air…
2) Protect people from fast-moving trains that create a lot of wind, particularly in underground stations. A prime example in my mind is Lex Av/53 St on the E/M, where Queens-bound trains create a push of wind for like 20 solid seconds before they even speed into the station. You hate to be on the edge of a crowded platform when the train's coming like this.
Even though this would be a great idea, the cost to install and maintain the PSD system would be too high. There are other technological alternatives that could be used. It’s also an old complex system. I can imagine if this was to be implemented, the edge of the platform would have to be redone to accommodate the weight of PSD
100 million could pay a lot of salaries for more blue vests with flashlights to stand on the platform... And they would only have to be working during rush hour periods went the threat of falling on the tracks is the highest
The NYC subway needs a complete overhaul but its almost impossible to do so
One quick reminder even the signal lights keep failing the majority of the year throughout the time on delays in most of our time on trains. Even that problem is bigger for MTA instead of Electrical doors for safety and the risk of careless homeless and mental individuals.
Implementation at express stations is vital at the very least.
Ok I’ve never been in new York I’m from Europe but omg that subway looks SO old school 😂 like the little windows with the rounded corners and the full metal look😅 were those trains made in the 70s or 80s?
Some of the IRT trains are from the 80s
I'm both for and against this idea mainly because of the cost and complexity of different Rolling Stock as you mentioned and also importantly necessity. I think for many of the stations that have a higher crime rate on reports would be better suitable for these types of implementations and should be tested in those type of areas. Another note they would have to keep some stations available for interlocking anyway and other maneuvers if not they will block themselves causing delays and more importantly messing up our railfanning videos LMFAO the last one is irrelevant but just a funny joke. Good video!
iirc Osaka Metro has PSDs that adjust depending on the rolling stock.
@@ianhomerpura8937 that would solve the problem with the different variety of Rolling Stock being rerouted for sure but then when coupling procedures need to happen I can't imagine how they would be able to do that with doors blocking. I know the doors only open when the train doors lineup with the PSD
@@GoldenTicket420 if that is the case, vertical PSDs are much better, like this one in Kobe.
czcams.com/video/ycQ5JeNJ33k/video.html
Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell no! They are impractical at many stations, expensive to install, and take away great photo/video opportunities. In fact, there have been many cases of them malfunctioning while a train was stopped there, injuring those trying to board or get off. People seem unaware that they are much more likely to get hurt from that than falling onto the tracks.
NYC needs stations that don't leak waaay before they think about platform screen doors.
I think Platform Screen Doors will mostly work for lines using NTT’s. The 7 using mostly R188’s and the L using mostly R143’s (w/ R160’s playing a supporting role) would likely be contenders for PSD’s to be implemented throughout most of the lines.
The SMEE trains would all have to be retired in order for PSD’s to implemented on most stations throughout the system. Notice how I said “most”, because not all stations can have PSD’s installed, especially those with columns close to the platform edge or, like 14th Street-Union Square on the 4, 5, and 6, have platform gap-fillers.
I am for it. They should do it on line that pretty isolated like 7,jg,j,l,m and shuttle that have bee rolling stocks. They could do one stations or platform at a time when a person fell or push into track. This way not all stations need that fast.
First
Edit: nice sneak peak at the end there
5:12
*I'll take "things that will never happen" for $500 Alex*
People are pushed way more than someone falling. Just imagine the damage that would be done to them. We can never have nice things here. Look how they ruined the glass blocks on the 7 line in Queens. I would suggest all new stations have them and see how it plays out.
30 million dollars per station is nuts. How much do they cost to install in Europe? The door issue makes them a total non-starter at most stations. The L and 7 are the only routes where they can be installed at every station, not that it's needed. This is because they are the only lines that don't interline with any other services and never see reroutes of other services. I'm skeptical of installing them anywhere on the QBL because while it operates exclusively R160s now, what if they want to run R211s on it eventually? If they don't have the same door positions as the R160s, then they will be banned from the line.
NYCT barely keeping the system running. When there is heavy rain, the stations are flooded. Will the flood water cause any expensive damages to the proposed screen doors. Low tech steel platform barriers might be better solutions. More importantly, need to relocated and treat the mental-ill people who are occupying the NYC subway system.
Would conductors still be able to stick their heads out to see when doorways have cleared?
Yes 100 Percent, there have been more reported death by Being pushed infront in train or on tracks
Then Put the Half Platform doors on busy stations as a test and if it is successful add more
I think that the full height doors and standardisation of rolling stock will be useful in tunnelled sections. At above ground sites half height PSDs may suffice. The MTA like all organisations have a duty of care for their passengers so if an accident occurs and the victim Sue’s then there is the question of did the MTA / service provider do everything reasonably practicable to protect the health and safety of not only their passengers but also their staff. Picture the impact a one under has on the driver and the risk of losing a highly trained staff member and the I pact that has wither temporarily whilst signed off or the recruitment & training costs if they leave.
The other thing we need to consider is the cost of disruption when these incidents occur. It is not only the direct economic impact on the transport provider but on wider commerce. For this I will use an aviation example. In the late 1990s at London Heathrow Terminal 1 there was a fire in a Burger King outlet which caused major disruption and £500,000 damage to the terminal. Sounds big money? Now think of the knock on impact to the airlines which come to approx £6-7 million but it does not stop there as a predominately business airport the global impact on world business was approx £140-150m whilst a person on the tracks won’t have as big an impact as the Burger asking fire it will impact other business. Following the fire fast food outlets disappeared at Heathrow and a number of other UK airports with much stronger restrictions on catering outlets. So how can NYC MTA and other transit providers reduce the impact - simple measures like platform edge doors starting at the bigger/busier stations.
The fire at Kings Cross London Underground station at which saw many lives lost saw the end of wooden escalators and the banning of smoking on the network. Access and egress has also been looked at at Kings Cross and platform safety at Bank station has seen a new platform constructed with more space (admittedly disappointingly without the platform edge doors which I think should have been installed at all closed stations during the Northern Line blockage).
It is however important to recognise the local trends to work out your higher risk areas but also useful to understand the challenges faced over over systems around the world learning from their development of services. Transport and human behaviours is always changing so it is important to ensure that we keep up with evolving changes such as platform edge doors and the new dedicated limited stop services such as the Elizabeth Line in London with dedicated lines and stations to also reduce congestion on existing infrastructure.
I think the easiest place to start is the IRT, because all the cars are the same length.
All of the cars are the same length, but the door widths & locations between the SMEE's and NTT's are much different.
@@MysticTransit Forgot about that lmao
@@MysticTransit I say just make the screen doors fit the maximum length door. What IRT car has the longest door width?
@@aqua2poweros699 That's kinda irrelevant. Platform doors are usually wider anyway to account for slight differences in stopping positions. I think wide platform doors might (*might*) be enough to account for the different door *locations*, where NTTs have more doors closer to either end of a car than the R62s do, but not by an extreme distance I think. And we can have wide platform doors because we don't have to put seats or gangways in between the doors lol.
To answer your question though, R62[A]s have 50"-wide doors (I think that's the case for every SMEE), and R142[A]s have 54"-wide doors. But if R262s follow the R211 trend, we might see doors 60" wide on those new trains. (They're 58" wide on the R211s.)
They should try installing them on the IRT first as they have less diversity and if I'm not mistaken the r142s and r62s have the same door positions? Correct me If I'm wrong
This is a good and bad idea because since the trains are manually-operated it can cause this: misaligned train doors, so the passengers would not be able to access the train; instead they will hit a wall. The good news is that the track-pushing crime will drop, and the tracks would not be overloaded with garbage.
There is a few metro in us have platform screen doors
If they did that, we cant railfan properly anymore.
Idk it would be the future, and 🔥 those doors look like the China and South Korea train stations ngl
Why can’t the NYC put one of those covers for the tracks that can be raised for trains to pass by and somehow make it so the people get on and off the train while they don’t fall on the tracks
I agreed, NY need special protection for innocent people from accidents, suicides, and murders. Subway trains can being dangerous due to nonstop aka can't tell timer if successful to saved other by notice or radio to warning.
Better leave to professional for good reasons due their knowledge and experience.
If future rolling stock adopted a standard door placement, full-height platform doors would allow stations to be air conditioned in summer and heated in winter.