Stop Trying To Find The Next Game Of Thrones
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- Are the constant 'Game Of Thrones' comparisons hurting or helping new high fantasy shows?
Thank you for watching this video! I have a lot of opinions on this topic and they are constantly changing, so I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below.
📚come say hi on tiktok
/ bookswithellak
📚see me attempt to be aesthetic on Instagram
/ bookswithellak
📚let’s be friends on goodreads
/ bookswithellak
00:00 GoT comparisons
03:26 GoT's unique success
05:33 filling the GoT 'void'
07:31 cast and crew perspectives
10:17 cancellations are not the answer
12:26 the witcher's downfall
15:18 fans deserve better
17:20 good(?) marketing
18:38 conclusion
Problem starts when they think gore, sex and violence made game of thrones great.
This, exactly this. If you removed the on screen gore sex and violence and just imply that things like the incest between Jaime and Cercie happen (the only important bit of sex in the entire show which isn’t even really graphic) 90% of game of thrones stays the same and it’s still probably considered good up until the final few seasons.
Game of Thrones would have been a much better show without those things
@@athatcher9367 Yes I agree, though not with the violence part (some episodes really need that and won't be impactful without it.)
Copy cats totally miss the mark
@@amorojaz27 Not necessarily,
What made red wedding :
Spoiler for all the caveman who haven't watched the show, yes all two of you:
What made red wedding great was seeing our beloved characters getting chopped to pieces, what made the fuckboy Martel's death impactful was how his skull was crushed.
As for the sex, incest was the most important and the rest were... Sorta unnecessary but Hey, who doesn't enjoy watching beautiful people?
@@Yokar_mova1212 still, if you need gratuitous sex to make a good story, you must not be very good at writing. This show was never as good as the fans think it was.
They need to focus on changing the game not copying the game
on god
You clearly have been paying attention to mass media since the middle of the twentith century. Studios are always chasing the latest trend that is why major original hit movies like the exorcist or jaws have untold numbers of rip off movies.
Haha accurate and succinct. Honestly the kind of writers these shows need to start hiring!
Or 'adapting' the game.
Ironically they don't like taking risks in Hollywood
Game of thrones should be the next Game of thrones, in 20 years when George finnish the books.
fax game of thrones needs be redone if george finishes the books
Haven't you figured it out by now? He will never finish the books. The series "Game of Thrones" made me want to read the books. But when I realized he was never going to finish them, I said to myself, "Self, no way am I starting a series that will never be finished."
It's more likely that a new fantasy series will come along that matches the success of "Game of Thrones" than that Martin finishes the books.
I hope he will publidh post mortem like to get no backlash @@DMichaelAtLarge
House of dragons got us lol
I highly doubt he’ll finish them before he passes away, he’s got three more I believe and they’re big, he is old
When you stop to think that, Game of Thrones itself failed because it kept trying to be Game of Thrones.
No? Thats not the reason it failed. Game of Thrones failed because it lost its origin. It wasnt really about politicing, great dialogue or ambiguous and grey characters anymore. It was about the sole fact dragons exist and the spectacle because of them. They tried to open up for a bigger audience and due to this decision they attracted more dumb ppl and simplified the core of Game of Thrones. Thats why the dialogue is horrible, bland and logic is thrown out of the window.
@@hristiyan5695 isn’t the op comment a joke? 😭
@@milk.8793 idk 🤷♂️
You thought you cooked 😂 nice try tho
Not really. Even the final season broke viewing records and won the best drama award at the emmys. This is much a delusional take you can only get from being online too much. House of the dragon is also very successful. Touch some grass.
The only series that can legitimately claim to be the next Game of Thrones is "House of the Dragon" because it is set in the same universe
Yes! That’s why I didn’t mention it much in this video, because it basically IS Game of Thrones.
And it’s a Sunday night > weekly discussion when it’s airing like GoT
Nah, Shōgun is much better.
The writing is there. The subtitles are the only thing that takes away from it.
@@loucypherdamorningstar subtitles shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. if you ignore subtitles you will be able to find so much amazing media
@@user-ek3qm2lq9g
I like to read, but I do admit you lose out on picking up certain aspects while focusing on the captions
In one episode featuring a young Mariko training, Toranaga leans over and whispers “she is good”
Later in another episode, the son bearing consort explains that she hates Toranaga because he was whispering to kill her father.
Or when Toranaga explained the use of falcons and stripped his son of command because he let himself be manipulated.
You either lose the understanding of the scene or subtle nuances in the acting.
Netflix fumbled The Witcher, Henry Cavill was done so dirty
They had the perfect casting and STILL couldn’t hang on
nope, untrue, you need to see the pattern of herny, he got fired the first time as superman, he "leaked" the witcher casting video, hyping people up, fast tracking its production, ending in a woke garbage show, than, he jumped the gunn and got fired the second time as superman, he "claimed" as the 40k savior, hyping people up, with nothing to back his shit up, "even leo have to go away for a while to shape up his carrier with scorsese" whiles henry dont even have any writer friends, his director friend is as much as a loser as he is, ending up in another woke garbage show... see the pattern yet? i know his good looking and he "build his own PC" and women like him, i get it, but if i cant fall helplessly in love with angelina jolie, than why do women have to be so shallow? if his such a good actor than why all his movies always bomb?
and also, the casting for the netflix witcher is trash, geralt is nothing like henry, and the other cast are z list actors
@@bookswithellak Wouldnt call it perfect since they casted against character book descriptions and made it woke in a Slavic/Central European cultural setting. Personally not a fan of blackwashing original characters especially when the source material tells you exactly how they look like. If they tried to create good Netflix only characters I'd be absolutely fine with that but they even fail at reproducing the already given content so how would they manage at self creating?
@@hristiyan5695Central Europe needs to be diverse.
@@silverhawkscape2677 What do you mean it ''needs'' to be diverse? We're talking about medieval Central/Eastern Europe not about liberalistic Central Europe from nowadays. And it doesnt need to be diverse in a medieval setting if they appreciated the culture included in the works of Sapkoswski. Slawic culture is underrepresented and by ignoring cultural/national borders they show how they dont appreciate the franchise.
I believe Game of Thrones was such a success because it was so different from LOTR, so I believe the next big fantasy franchise would be different from GoT.
Tbf shows like The Witcher should have done well because of it. They are a completely different from the GoT books and had an already established fanbase through the books and the games.
I would say it's all about mentality. As I said in my comment:
As much as I hate to do say it and not trying to be the devil's advocate here, but the producer of The Witcher saying they had to simplify the story for the masses is in some way true. I remember watching the first season of the witcher and, although it was not perfect and could use a lot of improvments (especially in the conclusions and motives we can draw from the stories), I remember liking it and thinking it was a good introduction to this new fantasy story wich is a bit more character driven than GoT since this one has 3 clear main characters.
After watching I remember going to read opinions, reviews and critics in platforms like Rotten Tomatoes and I could not believe what I was reading. There were reviews saying things like "It ain't exactly Game of Thrones." and things like "There are three different timelines that happen simultaneously, and I only realised two thirds of the way through the opening that they were all set at different times. It wasn’t clear at all." when in the same critic they say "When I was tweeting about it as I was watching it...". And these are critics who wrote reviews for The Sydney Morning Herald and the BBC respectively.
It just makes me want to smack them with the book and scream "Well of course it's not exactly game of thrones, it is based on a completely different book series, form an author that comes from a completely different country and background, with completely different themes and magic systems and creatures".
If there is one thing I think they did right with the first season is tell short stories that take place across diferent time periods and have them all come together without exposition and without constantly holding the viewers hands all the way through it. You just had to pay attention to small dialogues like Yennefer saying that she spent the last few decades as a sourceress cleaning up political messes, or pay attention to the characters on screen like Foltest and Ada to realise that one story was taking place when they were kids and the other when he is already king and she is dead, or when Yaskier during the hunt of the Dragon comments about Calanthe going to war, or even paying attention to queen Calanthe dying in the first episode and the other where she is still alive along with her daughter wich indicates that it takes place before what we've seen and also before Ciri being born. They let us figure it out with the many hints they drop throughout the episodes and still many people complain that it was too much complicated. I imagine these types of people trying to watch and compreend the show Dark (wich is one hell of a masterpiece) and can't help but laugh. They they want something smart, but don't want something that makes you think too much; they want something that you have to pay attention too like GoT, but they also want to be on their phones whilst watching it and understand it. It's contradicting to say the least.
Sanderson really seems like the best option from this point forward
No, it was a success because of great writing, great characters, and great actors. It was a damn good show; that's why it was a success.
@@leeham6230 lord of the rings is still better
@@motor4X4kombat That's completely irrelevant, though. We're discussing why GOT was good, not comparing GOT with LOTR.
"The Next Game of Thrones" is the "Darks Souls of..." for TV journalism.
Or “The Empire Strikes Back of…” for cliffhanger sequels.
Not as bad as "Makes you FEEL like Spiderman/Batman" on IGN reviews of superhero games
These people don't seem to know that if you really want to make the next GOT then you have to spend most of your money on WRITING
And rewriting.
It's like it's the first draft of everything
exactly the sex and violence were just window dressing. The core story was the house.
How much do you want to bet that a studio executive somewhere has put into Chat GPT "write a script for the next GoT" 💀
@@wanderinglizzyI used chathpt to help me write me novel and as I learned. It's best to act as an editor or assistant with you calling the shots with your vision.
Some of the best things that came out of chatgpt were new connections I could make with some previously made ideas.
Ironically, Succession (HBO) got closer to capturing the epic scale of politics, family drama, morally grey characters and tragedy than any of these high budget spectacle fantasies ever could. Succession legit felt like if the Lannisters had a modern AU.
Yeah that was the next GOT basically except not being as popular
I hope Netflix and their ilk pay attention to how and why Shogun succeeded: they didn't set out to make the "next GoT". They just wanted to make the best possible version of the story, faithful to both the culture and the source material, with cast and crew that cared not about how to appeal to the largers possible audience, but about telling a good story.
If you want to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no-one. But make a good show and you attract even people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in the setting or genre.
That is the issue...most do not stick to the source material. They thought that they could do it better...LMAO.
Exactly! You have to actually approach things from the perspective of making good art! But no all these execs care about is appealing to the masses. Trying to appeal to everyone is such a waste of time! Just make a good thing. People are more than willing to rise to the occasion if it is good. That’s the magic of game of thrones. That’s the risk HBO took with the show. They were like “this shit is expensive, fantasy is kinda niche, and the story is really complex, but I think it’s good story and has potential to be great so why not? We have the money to make that gamble.”
Shogun is a very mid overated TV show. Nowhere close to even house of the dragon or other Netflix series like stranger things, dark, narcos etc
@@mikef2811 i think this isn't a good mindset. source material can have flaws. the issue is that even if you change it, you still need to both understand and respect what makes a source material good in order to elevate it.
@@iammiller5478 first 2 episodes were piece of art but later they ruined it imo but people still enjoyed it
“The next game of thrones” is such an insult if you think about it. you’re basically saying that the show you’re working on or supporting is only good for the first few seasons and the rest is shit
GOT was really good up till season 6. Wouldn't call that a few seasons.
It was good shit imo...🤔🇹🇹
It was good till they could no longer adapt stuff from the books and had to write their own stuff, in which it all got downhill
Remember when Lost ended? A couple dozen lost-esque shows popped up and all failed and disappeared. I think this will be similar
Falling Skyes, Under The Dome, Wayward Pines (Season 1 is pretty good though) come to memory
For fans of the genre, I heavily recommend "From", it even has one of the same leads (Harold Perrineau)
It’s so strange how the Netflix Avatar remake wanted to be more like Game of Thrones, when they didn’t even give Zuko realistic burn scar makeup like GOT did for the Hound.
Who in the world looks at Avatar and Thinks Game of Thrones?
@@arnowisp6244execs trying to print free money. Its what they do, they bounce from one industry to another siphoning money as they go. For example insurance is full of actuaries who get law but are awful with statistics and handling money, but they hire each other so the cycle continues.
Same with creative industries, its why bankers and finance bros run Disney and Netflix- no one is allowed to be promoted up, only hired sideways from the top of another company like the current generation of parasite ceos
@@arnowisp6244they don't but netflix insists on wanting them to
Funny how Shogun is the the show that feels more like GoT even though is not fantasy.
The Borgias had a similar vibe too tbh.
I mean both Shogun and Game of Thrones are about people in power screwing other people in power to be come top dawg its not really much of a coincidence why they both have the same vibe even if they look aesthetically look different.
@@seto_kaiba_ they did the borgias so dirty, such a great show and so was the casting. and that too without needing so much money poured into it for useless visual effects.
Shit succession felt more like game of thrones than any of the fantasy tv shows released in the last 4 years
@@Orianna_Bumssen321 both are based on history, Shogun though a book by James Clavell is a real historical event.
Martin got the idea after reading a translation of a French book
series about the fall of their monarchy 1200s ?
As he could not speak French he chose the wars in England after the cousins war ' as it is known know wars of the Roses.
He added a few dragons and fantastical elements and there you have game of throwns
14:40 There's a profound wrongness in people talking about their audience that way. Imagine being invested in a show and only wanting the best for it, yet the people behind it undermine your intelligence and blame your inadequacy as the reason why the show is not as good as it could be.
Blaming the audience for your project sucking is a surefire way to piss everybody off and guarantee that you're not going to please anybody. After how many times so many directors, writers, and showrunners have done this and consistently reaped the consequences every single time, you'd think people would learn to respect the source material and it's core audience again, but apparently not. Apparently, stupidity and arrogance continue reign supreme throughout much of the modern entertainment industry.
It's this weird thing of Western creatives where they think "Oh, you're just a poor, uneducated peasant who doesn't understand my genius".
Worst part are the shills in fandoms who fall for it and don't have the balls to be critical.
Somehow Hollywood has confused criticism with rejection.
It’s sounds of reminiscent of the Feelies from Brave New World, no wonder the show sucks
Also to say all American are too dumb to understand complex plots is just… wild. It’s wild. 212 million people and ALL of us are dumb? Really? That’s what we’re going with? GoT was no doubt popular globally, but are they really going to act like America wasn’t a MASSIVE consumer of it?? That show is the opposite of simplistic baby shit an adult can’t comprehend. So to act like Americans are the issue for your plot is just… wild.
Sopranos in Middle-Earth is actually a fairly good description of Game of Thrones, and likely a big reason for its success. The show was for the most part a drama series in a fantasy setting, which was important. The fantasy elements were just a setting at the beginning. The drama could have worked in Victorian era British epoch, renaissance France Three Musketeers swashbuckler or indeed in a mafia drama. It would have worked as a science fiction space opera. When the fantasy elements got to the front the show quality started declining. The scheming plots for power gave way to fighting zombies.
Whatever the next GoT is going to be it needs to be a drama first. The setting is less important.
You could tell books were borrowing drama and politics style more from Dune (book) than LOTR
drama with multiple complex main characters that represent different well-established archetypes.
Yep. I would argue all great fantasy is great drama. Fantasy shouldn't be separate to drama, all stories centre drama of some sort, fantasy or sci-fi is like the wrapping it should add or enhance, but it can't be the whole thing. Some people don't like fantasy because they can't reach the level of suspension of disbelief to get into the drama of the story itself. But that's simply a matter of taste and it's fair enough. However, it definitely IS true that a large number of both fans and creators miss the forest for the trees and genuinely think that fantasy is about the fantasy elements, the more the merrier.
I'm reminded of how many mainstream fans disliked the Star Wars Andor series because it "didn't feel like" Star Wars. Because it had an unusually low number of aliens and Jedi. Despite the fact that the show has perhaps the truest thematic and dramatic through line with the original trilogy. Lots of people just wanted cool lights and effects. But all the top sci-fi shows did well because they had good drama and good themes. It's hard to think of a widely successful sci-fi show that's not chock-full of interesting drama and themes. And it's no surprise that the Star Wars shows being produced by big studios with their tick lists of "sci-fi blockbuster attributes" but total absence of drama or theme are doing the worst in terms of making a cultural impact. Even the much reviled prequels had more of an impact than the current crop of Disney Star Wars productions (excluding Andor ofc).
Kinda an awkward take as the books themselves are about fantasy and magic returning and that the endless politicking and backstabbing is getting in the way of the actually important stuff. Like not dying to the Others.
The show really took away the magic of/in jon's story and left quite a bit of plot points out.
I'd blame george for putting in those zombies from the beginning then not knowing what would happen to them in the end
Game of Thrones became as popular as it did because it was innovative. A grimdark, low magic epic fantasy for adults adapted into a television series had never been done before. People forget that before GOT fantasy was just thought of as LOTR and children’s stories. GOT was the thing no one knew they wanted. Now it’s been done so much that I roll my eyes when I see another fantasy show get announced. Try something new.
This is exactly the same problem comic book artists suffered in the 80s when publisher were desperately the "new Watchmen"
That’s why One Piece live action was so great. They didn’t try to be anything else, they tried to be One Piece itself, and they captured that very well, hats off to them!
OPLA was good? Somewhere between lots of canon stuff abridged and hurr durr new additions, the show just fell hard. Sure, in the context of 'live adaptations of anime', you can say it stands somewhere but that's not really a solid measure so it's not really a tick.
@@wokemoments9182 the show in no way was a perfect adaptation of course. They changed stuff and honestly most of the stuff they changed were necessary because those stuff only work in anime and not live action. What my comment was that it tried to be itself, it tried to be One Piece and not just another Game Of Thrones
@@Mugipunk I am not if I competely agreed on that last statement.Considering how much they cut due to budget constrations.Braite and Arlong Park were as good as they should of been because of that reason.Garp also took away screentime and character delevopment from Sanji and Ussop.If this was a faithful take on the Coby coverstory and the real garp I probaly won't mind as much but the garp in LA isn't the garp I like in the source material.
No one into an anime will like an LA. As someone who only say One Piece as LA it was a lot of fun@@wokemoments9182
They need to stop trying to find the next big GOT show out of YA material. It's like looking for the next Saw franchise from children's books.
Assuming your audience needs simple stories is a great way to chase off audience.
Problem is Hollywood is factory trying to make widgets to sell when stories are an art form. Art and a great story cant be mass manufactured. Creativity isnt a widget and great art cant be forced.
Great artistry needs to cook
Trying to make ATLA like GOT yet viewable for the most viewers possible is an oxymoron. Yes, millions of people with tons of different interests watch the show, but that was never the intention nor marketing, it’s just the phenomenon you have with a well written and thought out show. GOT is definitely a niche genre, weird even but that is what makes it so good
The Wheel of Time could have most definitely been "the next GOT," but Amazon fucked it up royally. It's more magic heavy and a little more light hearted, but the scale is as big if not bigger. You have so many main characters etc etc. I'm still baffled at how much Amazon spent on ROP but couldn't get half way decent writers let alone just decent.
Which is dumb in of itself because the original show was already made for a larger audience. Both kids and adults can enjoy the show with all the unnecessary sex and violence.
Another thing that's never mentioned is that yes, GoT got a bunch of people into fantasy that have never been into the genre before, but it also burned a lot of those people with how the final 2 seasons went, if GoT was your first fantasy series, I can understand how people would be apprehensive about getting so involved in another fantasy series.
Even house of the dragon has failed to capture the audiences GoT did because a lot of people just will not return to the fantasy genre after that disaster
I feel like people who love GoT but NOT the animated Avatar are definitely NOT going to like Neflix avatar.
There used to be a similar problem in games journalism, with every MMORPG raising the question: "Is this the World of Warcraft killer?" They got over it at some point, because WoW outlived them all.
hahah how many "cod" killers have come up in recent times... yet so many people still purchase the yearly release.
Everyone seems to try chasing the fame and success of the big franchise instead of focusing on make a good thing.
Funny how local businesses where I live fail for the exact same reason: They see a business triving, and try to do the exact same thing, almost across the street to the OG one, and they don't even offer lower prices. They always fail. Given I live in a poor country, it's understandable they don't want to take risks with innovation and would rather take the safer route to get money, and so does hollywood and game companies, but unless they outbid in quality the OG one, which they don't want to do because they don't want to take risks and just the profits, they ought to fail.
I agree shows need time to cook. Dropping an entire show at once doesn't work building audiences, audience interest and word of mouth.
2. Got was perfect for social media building while social media was developing.
This is a great essay, but I wish you brought up L O S T, even though its not based on an adaptation. Because that was the phenomenon where we first started to see this kind of thing for genre television (as the landscape changed in the 2000s). From "Fast Forward" to "The Event" I can't even tell you how many copycats were flooding the market wanting to be the next LOST.
In the end, as stated, the answer was something *totally* different. In the end, the next LOST was.... Game of Thrones.
Thank you, and yes!
Lost is a great example of that immense popularity and it’s a show I still need to watch. I was very young when it was coming out so it doesn’t naturally spring to mind for me, but thank you for mentioning it!
I think we also had that with breaking bad, especially with it making streaming popular. Thing was, most of the quality shows with antihero/criminal protagonists were airing concurrently or had finished/were finishing up (Dexter, the Sopranos, Mad Men semi fits). They either ran them into the ground or wrapped them up, there was already enough on the market.
@@bookswithellakYou NEED to watch Lost. One of the best shows ever made.
Lost is overrated
15:56 I mean this article demonstrates the EXACT issue that ruined game of thrones in the first place. People being able to predict your storyline is NOT a sign that it's bad. People liked the twists and surprises in GoT. Yeah, that's true. But they didn't like it purely for the twists. They liked it because it also made sense ffs. Anyone who's main goal is to outfox the audience is doomed to failure as a creator because it leads to nonsense Deus Ex machina plot twists that make no sense, and the destruction of character consistency as they do things for the sake of the plot instead of in line with their character. God that article is infuriating because it naturalises and normalises the exact opposite of what show runners should be doing. Story first. Ignore the audience except for the broadest possible feedback on whether you're writing a good show or not. Actively trying to serve the audience day to day is the quickest way to a dogshit mediocre crap pile of a show.
And sometimes "predictable" isn't bad, if the ending you predict is the one that unfolds naturally from the characters and themes. Guessing correctly can be more satisfying than "a twist you never saw coming". I saw The Gondoliers recently, and based on how Gilbert and Sullivan operettas usually end, with a ridiculous topsy-turvy development that ties all loose ends together to give everyone an improbably-happy-ever-after, I guessed the ending early in Act 2, and hoped that it would end that way, because that ending would be the most satisfying given the characters, tone, and social commentary. I was right, and was happy there was no rug-pulling. Predictable or correct guessing wasn't dull in this case. It was the only possible ending that wouldn't compromise the artistry.
Yep. Subverting expectations only works to a point. Subverting just for the sake of Subverting feels self-defeating and leaves a bad taste.
Netflix adaptations are money laundry schemes change my mind
Streaming services need a reminder that Game of Thrones came at the end of the Golden Age of television and when it crashed, so did tv.
If House of the Dragon isn't as popular as Game of Thrones was, no other fantasy show will be. Game of Thrones expanded outside the fantasy market and this will likely never happen again.
The only Fantasy shows getting massive appeal are anime like One Piece and Demon Slayer.
Overproduced and soulless fantasy shows won't ever reach the hieghts these corporations desperately want them to
Especially Rings of Power which is so hilariously bad that it’s probably going to get higher viewer counts simply from hate watchers (like myself, it’s great comedy)
Yeah true it did come from the era where people would pay a lot of money monthly for cable. More than a cheap streaming service
"I don't know how much they changed from the Witcher books"
Oh my sweet summer child that is a long long long long long post. A lot of S1 of the Witcher was fanfic that didn't happen or was not specified in the books which lead to a plot point that made absolutely no sense in s2 that they tried to "fix" for 15 seconds in S3. That same Lauren Hissrich promised us a one to one adaption (which isn't possible but it strayed so far).
Game of Thrones is game of Thrones the Witcher is not Game of Thrones. It has a different story, different setting, different pace, different themes.
Witcher I think would benefit from being an animated show akin to Attack on Titan, Castlevania, or ATLA. They already made that Vesemir animated movie, I haven’t seen it, but as long as it maintained the books and games’ sense of themes, tone, and balance between grounded realism and fantasy magic it could be excellent. However, I don’t think they would do that because of the common stigma against animation as being children’s entertainment.
@@bencarlson4300they fumbled that movie too
@@1AM1AM Well that sucks
I still shocked how they made some of the most kindest and likable characters like Cagyr and Foltest on of the most hated by me.
Foltest it's just such an insult on such great character.
Not talking how Netflix thinks krasnolyds are the dwarfs.
The Witcher would have actually reached that (the "next" game of thrones) if they didn't screw up season 2. Despite not being a writer, I found Cavill's input on the show more valuable.
Being a netflix production is a sin to begin with.
@@doobadood It is… Netflix could’ve surprised us by giving us quality instead they opted not to.
I'm just glad Brandon Sanderson has creative control of his works
im so gonna be here when his works are made into a movie or series franchise with the exception that he has a lot of say in it!
@@isabellaahumadaramos7013that said someone who is really good at writing books isn’t necessarily gonna be great at making movies and tv
Hopefully they get a good editor to take all the boring stuff out. 😊
@@Dude_on_a_Maplol
The problem with trying to make other fantasy shows into game of thrones is that game of thrones was a fantasy that wasn’t trying to fantasy
So now this will fail with every other fantasy because most fantasy source material are to the core fantasy for example avatar … it’s a fantasy show that is a fantasy to its core less realistic
So the problem starts when u take away what makes that show what it is n that is it being a fantasy as much as possible
Game of Thrones has snow zombies,dragons, ghosts...it's very much fantasy that tries to fantasy!
I feel like the snow zombies were barely in it until the last season and I don't recall any ghosts.
@@stephennootens916 I forgot that the show completely got rid of the ghosts and toned down most fantasy elements.
But I remember the very first scene of the very first episode. Nobody can watch that and deny that GOT is 100% a fantasy universe.
@@stefannydvorak7919 they have ghosts in the book? I tried reading the books but it didn't grab me.
@stephennootens916 Yep. The most notorious one being Catelyn Stark. She becomes Lady Stoneheart after death...and her revenge story is crazy.
Thing is, whenever you get these cultural moments and massively popular movies/tv shows, the original is never made for that reason, it’s just a bunch of people who get together and really care and try hard to make something great that they all love.
Then when all these copycats are made to “be the next game of thrones” or next MCU or whatever just never work because that passion isn’t there.
They’re trying to get the results without putting the right actions or work in and just think that people love fantasy or people love cinematic universes so if they just make one of them they’ll make buckets of money
GOT was a massive success because despite its complexity, it started with clear plots that anyone can follow. A whodunit detective story with Ned and the background threat of the white walkers, and from there the story eases you into the more complex aspects slowly and begins to branch out. It had a vast array of colorful, fully realized characters with motivations that everyone understood and sympathized with. So not only we had a clear story to follow, but we had great characters with amazing actors portraying them to get invested in. And when the story kills the main character and branches into a full blown war, we've already been fully invested in the family the main character left behind. It's compelling, good writing. So when I hear ppl talking about making a show appeal to broad audiences I scoff. GOT wasn't good because it was fantasy. It was good because it had excellent writing. It's baffling that all these studios worry about profit and don't even pay attention that what makes a show good. You all remember why the ending of GOT sucked? Cuz the writing sucked.
GOT was good when it was adapting Martin's writing, and once they had to make stuff up themselves... Well we know what happened.
No show will ever be able to top what GoT did. Game of Thrones did for TV fantasy, like what Lord of the Rings did for movie fantasy. It can't be beaten. It's scale, ambition is unmatched. House of the Dragon can possibly become close, but it won't ever top it. Game of Thrones is masterpiece, (I don't give a shit what people think of season 8, it was still groundbreaking) and changed TV forever.
What is frustrating, is that Wheel of Time could, and should have been the perfect rival for GoT, but the fools behind that series, threw what made those novels out the window. The Witcher is just a failure, for the exact same reason of Wheel of Time.
And Rings of Power was a disgrace to humanity.
@@FrancT-no it wasn’t
@@CaptainPikeachu It was.
If i wanted to see the next Games of Throne House of the Dragon is coming out in June. 🙄 Why would I watch Avatar for that purpose?
I feel like the same can be said for high fantasy or epic fantasy books. Most of them, years ago and even now, get compared to game of thrones (which isn't bad) but it's never really elaborated on. As someone who didn't read the books but watched the show, there was A LOT that happened in game of thrones so unless you get semi-specific as to what you drew inspiration from, it doesn't do anything for me idk
It’s definitely a dangerous comparison. It doesn’t do anything for me either, other than make me skeptical and put my expectations for the new book through the roof.
Its precisely because we are tik tok obsessed that you need to respect us as viewers. In a weird way, we compare, dissect and talk about everything. We’ll sniff out bad tv
What’s interesting is the trailer for the DUNE show on Max was just revealed and as much as I like Denis’ Dune, it just feels like the show will be like GOT.
I mean, DUNE was basically medieval politics in space. It was GoT before GoT existed.
Rings of Power PR team initially tried to market it as GoT to fans but there was backlash as the LOTR already had a massively successful adaptation and fans besides the book fans, and everyone knew that they are different styles of storytelling and Tolkien hated the GoT style books of his day. So they switched to saying it would be family friendly and not like GoT.
What’s wild is there is still some incredibly violent stuff in it although no sex scenes, so it is more late tweens and up for lower age range
I’m struggling to find where that comparison started. I know it did happen, especially because I remember the concern over the nature of the content and there being an intimacy coordinator, but as to who started it back then and where, I can’t find it anymore outside the showrunners pushing against the idea.
Depending on where stated, that statement could’ve come from someone not as directly involved, while the showrunners had a different perspective in their filming. While there are some more violent moments, I feel like there were only a few that went a bit further than what LotR/Hobbit films did, notably in the Warg/trench scenes (so far).
Actually, I'd say that Succession is a pretty good Adaptation of GOT. Unlike other fantasy shows, it didn't try copying the original idea but instead decided to leave its own mark. And its ending succeeded where GOT's failed.
if they want the next Game of Thrones they have to commit. They have to hold onto their actors. They have to hold onto their screen writers. they have to sign contracts for the next season. They are afraid of the Friends and Seinfeld etc etc effect. If a show is popular you have to pay their talent what they are worth.
They have to sew so they can reap. I think deep down they are scared a new TV show will become its own animal.
Everybody is afraid of being themselves. If you are honest people will like you.
If you notice all these shows are about adults being adults.
Maybe that's why none of these new shows havent taken off because they are trying to use YA material.
Not bashing YA material but its such a short term in a person's life and when one gets to a certain age its hard to relate to teen years.
And if we look at demographics teen adults are getting smaller and smaller
I'm tired of violence and spectacle just for the sake of it. You know what's groundbreaking? Human characters and not caricatures.
I think one of the major issues that trying to make the "next game of thrones" is such a horrible way to look at things is because, while it doesn't seem kind to say, I feel like most people don't get what made game of thrones work. Sure, it had a large cast of characters and violence and sex and character deaths, but that's not all it is. I keep seeing people talking about how shows need to start having "random and pointless deaths" like Game of Thrones, which under just the tiniest scrutiny is false.
Sure, a lot of the deaths are shocking, but the vast majority are natural continuations of those characters' stories and happen because of a string of decisions that were bad but were made because of the character's personal beliefs and then move the plot forward in very interesting ways after they happen. If you just think that the deaths are about "This is gonna shock the audience!" then I don't think we watched the same show, and this is just one of the many interpretations of the stuff in this show that just doesn't give it enough credit.
Just having violence or death or sex or a lot of characters in a show CANNOT make it good. Those elements are only as good as the author writing them and as long as modern creators dismiss it as violence-sex-death show while ignoring the strengths of the early seasons that made them truly excellent, I think that trying to make other shows like this false perception of GoT is one of the real things trying to kill the fantasy genre right now.
I agree with this!
It’s why I talked about the new fantasy shows not understanding what made Game of Thrones popular in the first place, and how they don’t trust the audience’s intelligence in the way that Game of Thrones did so well in those earlier seasons.
I spoke about the “shocking deaths” just to give a short summary of what the show was widely known for, but of course the writers deserve all the credit for making those deaths actually mean something to audiences and to the overall story. Sorry if it was conveyed that way - I certainly didn’t mean to reduce it a “violence-death-sex show”!
Why did Netflix hire the Ember Island Players to write, direct and act in the live action Avatar The Last Airbender series ? It makes zero sense because everyone hated that episode in universe except Sokka.
I know these Netflix writers will just make Katara and Zuko end up together but it will be such a hack in the writing department that I don't think anyone will enjoy or like it
Lol, a lot of people actually like that episode, and gets a lot of praise as a recap episode. The main reason for the dislike at the time is because its release was on a weekly basis and you had to wait for the action, which doesn't sit well with impatient watchers. But as a rewatch its a funny and good episode.
@@dontghostbanmeplz8788the commenter said that characters in universe didn't like the performance
When you're not trying replicate the success of something you're starting on the right path. But the real things comes when you're able to focus and pour your heart on making a franchise that can attract others and made people love your product world wide. Now that's the real success right there.
I wish they would give up, the next Game of Thrones has most likely already been found in One Piece over at Netflix alongside House of the Dragon and Fallout as a possible wild-card hit.
The problem is, and don't get mad at me if you're a fan of these other attempts, but the shows listed above are likely the only ones that have a chance of going as far as Game of Thrones did, and it's almost exclusively because of the worlds within them. Game of Thrones had great writing (until it didn't, but that's beside the point), but it also had a fully realized world. What I mean by this is that the characters and their drama within the world never felt like events playing out through a narrow scope or perspective, they felt like events that could happen in any other area marked on the map. One of the things that made the series so rich for people was that we naturally, subconsciously understood the full realization of the world we had been given, we wondered what could happen across the ocean, the lands we never heard news from, because obviously something had to be happening over there, too. Game of Thrones made our investment in the story feel important and worthwhile. House of the Dragon exists in the same world, so it's already a contender for that reason alone. I brought up One Piece and Fallout for this exact reason, though, because both of those worlds have thought out nearly every detail. They are fully realized. Something like The Dandelion Dynasty could achieve this, or even Joe Abercrombie's First Law series, still, those two are shots in the dark because they would be competing against three already adapted works that have the same rich potential.
Lastly, Arcane and any future League of Legends series have the writing and world building potential, but being animated unfortunately hurts popularity among mainstream audiences with narrow minds and shallow taste, so that's not likely to be the next big thing.
Being someone who adores both Fallout and One Piece, and enjoys House of the Dragon quite a bit, I'm happy with the contenders we have now, but I would of course like to see everything else I mentioned get the chance to shine just as bright.
I love this idea about world building being so important. Arcane is one of my favourite shows, so I'll have to check out One Piece and Fallout!
@@bookswithellak Cool! They're both great fun, I hope you enjoy them.
Such a good video!!!
I personally think the profit motivation of all these companies is causing all this
Thank you!!
100% agree, they put as little effort in to make as much money as possible.
There is also a fundamental misunderstanding in thinking that fans who overthink stuff need to be “defeated” by twists that completely surprise them, rather than just letting stories reach logical conclusions and reward fans who figure things out. So many studio execs and creatives seem to think random surprise subverting expectations is good storytelling simply because fans didn’t figure it out and that’s the success.
This just like the Xfiles way way back in the 90s. It was a hug hit, one of the biggest in Fox's history. It was so popular that it got a cross over the with Simpsons in just 3 years, remember back then it took almost a year to make an episode so that means this was approved sometime during Xfiles second season.
No show that Chros Carter has made as been that successful. No show about paranormal buddy cops, no show with the lead actors has been that successful either. But man was everyone trying to make the next Xfiles. Many shows got cancelled after just one or two years because they could not live up to that hype.
Why? Because Xfiles wasn't just a good show it came out in a time that was perfect for that. Home internet just starting to be a thing, and it really helped people get with a show about paranormal and conspiracy theory stuff since that was on the internet.
Diehard did this, Twilight, Harry Potter, something new come along in a few years and do this again.
We already had a show that was everything GoT could have been and should have been (but failed to manifest)... Black Sails is 1) sex-filled 2) historical fiction with all kinds of 3) murder, 4) nudity, 5) political intrigue, and 6) even though the story takes place at the height of chattel, race-based slavery, the writers imagine non-white characters as more than slaves. Finally, the ending is goood!
Black Sails is by far the most under rated show in existence, and is also easily one the most well written TV shows ever made, and far better than Game of Thrones. It had everything going for it, story, characters, production design, the list goes on... And because it's produced by Micheal Bay it just looked better than basically everything. I rewatch it all the time.
I think one issue is they keep trying to use YA material and teen subjects when that age group is just getting smaller and smaller.
And when reaches a certain age its hard to relate to teen issues and trying to make 90210 in high fantasy form.
The thing is you don't know what you want, I don't know what I want, we think we do, which is why we look for similar things to our interests, but what we and most audiences want is something new that we haven't seen yet. That's why you love game of thrones so much, because for the most part it is different to what you've already seen, and I imagine a lot of people, be it book or film, instantly thought this was their next lord of the rings, and were pleasantly surprised when it was something different.
Companies have been talking down on US audiences since at least the 90's it is not new.
We all know the sorceress stone US title was called philosophers stone originally (changed because the did not think that Americans would know the first term ment)
My favourite is thw film The Madness of King George. The play that it is based on is The Madness of King George the 3rd)
They took is regional number of the title because (this is a good one) they thought pepole would not go and see it because they had not seen the first 2 movies.
A big problem is constant rehashing, even those that are rated better like Shogun are just remakes. Why should I watch new Shogun when I own original Shogun on a beatiful DVD box?
I agree with GOT comparisons. First, not everyone loves GOT or ASOIAF and forcing every fantasy to be like that is myopic.
Also, the majority of people involved in making new shows/films are indeed disrespectful towards their possible audiences. They try to preach to them in the most hypocritical way possible and treating them like idiots. 5 years ago, Netflix finished German scifi/mystery show Dark which was extremely dense on information and lore. They certainly wouldn't allow it to be made nowadays.
The world if passionate creatives were allowed to tell out-of-touch executives "no":
[insert stock sci-fi utopia image here]
that was a good one XD
For someone with 1k, this is a CRAZY good video. You’re clearly gonna go far, great stuff!
This comparison to GoT also happens in fantasy/sci-fi books! One of my favorite series, The Expanse, has a quote that says "The science-fiction equivalent of ASOIAF" on every cover, when, aside from the massive worldbuilding and large cast of characters, that's not really true. Each series has a very different tone and overall themes but that's the most compelling comparison publishers can make.
Game of thrones is a period piece, political thriller set at the outset of a civil war that happens to be in a fantasy setting.
The Witcher was the worst Netflix was out there saying (the next game of thrones) 😫
WHEN I SAW I AM NOT OKAY WITH THIS ON HER "WAS CANCELED TOO EARLY" LIST AND I FELL IN LOVE
I need more thoughtful, provocative essays like this on my feed fr 👌🏾
I the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy has the potential to be a GoT level success tv show.
I can proudly say that I would be capable of making "the next game of thrones" type show, with the Conan The Barbarian series, a series that inspired Game of Thrones/ASOIAF actually. Unfortunately I don't have the power or influence to do that, yet... >_
Fun fact: Miguel Sapochnik tried it, but Amazon preferred to put the money on RoP, Miguel ended up working on HoD
"But why try to be Game of Thrones, everyone hates that now." Ben Yahtzee Croshaw. A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones has a worse influence on fantasy than Watchmen did with superheroes because people always take the wrong lessons from what makes their grim inspiration good. The original Avatar The Last Airbender had so much better world building and characterization than Game of Thrones without having to castrate and assault it's characters. Why can't shows try to be the next Hilda instead?
😂
Saying Avatar had better characters and world building is beyond insane 😭 brother they are the most generic animated protagonists known to man.
@@idkstudios4412 Yet one of those generic animated protagonists manage to have a much better redemption arc than Jamie Lannister ever could.
Are you serious game of thrones world building is amoungst the beat in fiction??
@@casualcraftman1599 if you have the mental capacity of a child and only consume cartoons with bare minimum commitment to an even mildly mature story then sure. Only reason that character even is as good as everyone remembers him being is because he’s one of the only characters with a unique character and arc. Other than than it’s “generic boy cartoon protagonist” “generic I can hang with the boys” female protagonist “annoying and generic wacky secondary male protagonist that gets dogged on” bare minimum is a pretty piss poor bar to set storytelling standards at.
the show that was most like game of thrones was never trying to be like it (shogun)
love this type of content, so informative :)
Some good GOT-like Chinese shows are
Monarch Industry, Rise of Phoenixes, Scarlet Heart (2012), Empresses in the Palace,Nirvana in Fire, and Princess Agents, Dreaming Back to the Qing Dynasty, Legend of FuYao, Story of Minglan, Story of Haolan, etc.
GOT didn’t invent the War-between-factions genre.
The ones I recommend out of these are: Monarch Industry (known as “The Rebel Princess” in the West), Princess Agents, and Rise of Phoenixes. (All 3 are free on YT)
don't think people who liked GOT will like shows like Scarlet Heart. Scarlet Heart leans more into romance too, I love it but let's be real I can't see men who liked GOT watching it.
im not Chinese but i watched all this shows i definetely enjoyed Princess Agents, Legend of Fu Yao and Novoland Eagle's Flag more than the others but c'mon none of this shows come close to GoT
It's already out there. The show is called Black Sails. It's so criminally underrated, it should be a capital offense.
the writers also want every season to be the highest quality stuff when they really should build up to it like if someone told me when i was watching the shield season 1 by the end it would have one of the best endings of a show ever(no exaggeration) i wouldnt have believed them
This explains a lot. Thanks for the info🙏
What's sadder is, Joe Abercrombie has already surpassed GRRM as a fantasy writer but can't get the proper exposure because GoT (and its many failures) looms heavily over all other fantasy stuff
There is a fundamental distinction between "the next Game of Thrones" in the conceptual sense and in the commercial sense. There are a lot of great fantasy cycles out there that could rival GoT in the former sense, but the streamers and studios are not interested in that. When they say "the next Game of Thrones" they are talking only in the commercial sense. They are obsessed with "franchise." However, what they have forgotten in their search for the "next big thing" is that it must by definition be original. They have all - first and foremost Disney but now also most of the rest - become so used to strip mining existing intellectual properties that they have forgotten to invest in originality. Indeed, they have forgotten how to invest in originality. This is why do many of us are now spending so much time here, watching videos on YT about how bad mainstream content is, rather than watching mainstream content itself. This evening I have surfed from one such video to the next - thereby depriving the streamers of the advertising revenue they would have had if I had been watching their stuff. While this may not distress them unduly, tens of millions doing the same every evening will eventually destroy them.
i love these video essays
game of thrones was sooo good at its prime
at its prime i think its even a lot better than the asoif books ever were and i love them too
Nah not true.
@@azieldaly2965 it is true tho
Asoifs pacing was nowhere near as good as prime got
I really love asoif and read the first book before I even started the show but the show is just better
They dissect the most important scenes and merge conversations that are otherwise not very interesting to extremly interesting ones
Got had way less filler and almost all scenes accomplished multiple things and thus the pacing and momentum was great
The books just weren’t like that
I know people tend to have a distaste for anime but if you can look past the prejudice, "attack on titan" can truly be considered on par with game of thrones, it is very well thought out and thematically rich and most importantly, it just keeps getting better and better and just better as we dig deep into its world and geo politics
Why are Showrunners still trying to go off the Shyamalan twist? Like the reason Game of Thrones always worked until the end was the fact ….that you could literally see the characters doing the thing they did … anticipating if something was gonna go wrong? Was just as enjoyable as something going wrong, because you cared about the characters …. it was that buildup of expectation that was what actually made it good?
That analysis is really impressive!
Because there will never be another one. The golden age of the tv series is gone (2009-2019) and the magnificence of the early seasons of Game Of Thrones (which was a real game changer at the time) will remain unsurpassable, in the fantasy genre at least.
HBO already tried to have 2 "next Game of thrones", sci-fi version: Westworld and Raised by Wolves, unfortunately both failed.
The next GoT should be an author-driven project that has, as source material, a complete and finished plot line based on the written material, and NOT in the hands of fanboys who couldn't figure out on their own how to end the show without the author's assistance.
I need studio execs to understand that I am not an idiot and I like when the stuff in watching is good.
The media kept hyping Game of Thrones after major controversies in Season 5 onward, then were honestly surprised when season 8 was bad. Why? Because it didn’t matter when Sansa or Stannis were ruined, only when Jon Snow was ruined?
You say the media is trying to hype up new shows as “the next Game of Thrones” - the media already did that for GoT season 5 onward! :)
It took me a while to realize: the news media hype reporters, that recapped culture, they NEED hits to report on, need it to be not just a hit but a pop culture sensation. So of course they wouldn’t turn against GoT after massive controversies in season 5 - they’re SELLING the recaps as “infotainment”! They couldn’t afford for it to be bad.
Yes great points; it coincided with a surge in digital culture: suddenly every recapper with a Twitter account got to be a hero just for blindly praising it
The first season covered most of the first 2 short story books and seasons 2 and 3 loosely cover the first of the 5 novels. Since the show is being canned after season 5, which is being filmed simultaneously with season 4, they’re either gonna rush everything or pull another blood origin and make something up.
I just needed to say that this video was very informative and very well worded and put together......Kudos my lady.😉👍🇹🇹
Excellent analysis. Why doesn't this channel have more subs?? Great video, thank you.
The Broken Empire trilogy is a Grim Dark fantasy book series by Mark Lawrence that should be a tv show or a r rated fantasy movie trilogy ✓
I honestly wish for an Broken empire trilogy adaptation to be made. Paramount Pictures had bought the rights for the broken empire trilogy in 2017. And since then there hasn’t been any news. Which is a shame because now I have the desire to make it. Oh well.
I don't care what the next thing is, as long as the writing is good.
The difference between D&D and Lauren Hissrich is that D&D stuck to the material as much as possible until they ran out of material. That is why GoT was great until the end, and why The Witcher got worse and worse.
They didn’t run out of material
They chose to cut and change a lot from book 4 and 5
I think the attraction to Game of Thrones is how novel of a story it was and the production value of it. HBO has a history of that too with shows like The Sopranos, The Wire, etc. They seem to have an eye for stories that bring something new and intriguing, not trying to just regeritate what they've done in the past (House of the Dragon may be an exception, I don't know because I haven't watched it).
You should watch house of the dragon it’s good and the second season comes out next month
@@cambelloroxy9420 That's great to hear! I may have to lick my wounds and give it a go. 😊
@@bloomwiththestars definitely 👍🏻
@@bloomwiththestars just remember that it’s based on the book lore and not the show lore (game of thrones seasons ) especially not seaso 7 and 8 (meaning it is hinted that Dany is the prince that was promised)
It sucks to be someone who didn't even like Game of Thrones, I wasn't its target audience and that's okay but I hate that so many fantasy shows want to be the next GoT.
This was brilliantly said frfr bravo
"Game of Thrones is the Dark Souls of television."
I hope that Fallout is a beacon, I hope Wednesday is a beacon, to inspire, not follow.
Great video. Very interesting
0:08 I notice there was space for Wheel of Pish, but it got left out, even though it would fit the theme like a glove.
This video is so good that it might be the next Game of Thrones
This also happened with Lost and before that with The X-Files. When those shows were in their heyday every network was trying to create their version of them. It yielded some truly trash shows-lol
Great video ! You deserve so much more subscribers but im sure you'll get more
To be honest, with how much was left out, changed, or skipped over, you could just adapt the books again. Books 4 and 5 especially had around 50-60% of the content in them completely cut.